S12.E18: The Memory Remains

[MysteryGuest]

I can't imagine that the BMOL don't know Mary's history.  While Sam Smith might not look 29, she definitely doesn't look old enough to have an almost 40 year old son.  I just don't believe that Ketch is just now wondering how the woman he's actually slept with has managed to keep her youthful appearance.  I think it's just one more thing we're just supposed to assume has already been addressed.  

I also don't think those books are exactly how Sam and Dean want to be remembered.  Plus, they ended a long time ago, and really had no more than just a small cult following.   

[Myrelle]

1 hour ago, DittyDotDot said:

Plus, I enjoyed it very much that they shrink-wrapped Dean to a rolling desk chair--too damn funny!. That's how you don't take yourself too seriously show!!

I don' think that this episode even merits discussing but I have to admit that I totally LOL! at that, too. But I think that they were serious about his being "bound" in that way, which makes it sad, too.

The writing of this one was Godawful in so many ways. The only character who I kind of felt anything for in this one was the pot-smoking kid who got offed just like his buddy. That kid really brought the terror-vibe and there was a lot of great atmosphere and directing wasted and ruined by the actual writing in and of this one, too.

Too bad because it could have been great.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Myrelle

[auntvi]

1 hour ago, DittyDotDot said:

All that is fiction, though, "fans" don't know Sam and Dean are real people. However, I think it's good that Sam and Dean don't have such big heads they think the world revolves around them. They live and work in the shadows, so it makes sense to me they wouldn't be aware there are people out there who will remember them. 

In the context of the episode it makes sense that Dean is thinking about their legacy -- in comparison to the police chief whose family's legacy was a blood-thirsty god in his basement and Black Bill. Sam & Dean were both surprised that people knew who they were at Asa Fox's wake, so I'm not surprised that they still feel kinda invisible. Plus they're now both suspicious in the wake of Mick disappearing suddenly. Also, they're "legacies" living in a MoL house, but it doesn't really belong to them. I saw it as Sam & Dean saying, "Godammit, we were here!"

[Dobian]

Getting back to the MOTW, I thought this one was kind of lame.  First of all, why does a "god" allow itself to be imprisoned by these yahoos?  Why doesn't it just kill them and go out and feed all it wants on humanity?  It's really going to be held fast by a metal grate?  Really?  And what are these riches this family has been rewarded with all these generations?  They own a meat packing plant in a dumpy town.  You need a god to achieve this kind of "wealth and power"?  Really?  Oy.

[bettername2come]

1 hour ago, DittyDotDot said:

 

I don't think he's been on Supernatural before, but the actor is most memorable to me from Psych, he was in their "Dual Spires" episode. I think I've seen you hanging out with us other Psychos, so... ?

Thank you! The blind photographer! I remember now. Yet another Psych/Supernatural crossover.

[ahrtee]

3 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

16 hours ago, catrox14 said:

THERE ARE LITERAL GOSPELS written by GOD about you and Dean, Sam. Why on earth are you saying that history doesn't remember guys like them? THE BOOKS ARE STILL ON THE INTERNET. This made no sense.

There was a musical written about you and Dean, Sam that YOU and Dean were part of TWO YEARS AGO.  That is such non sensical writing

All that is fiction, though, "fans" don't know Sam and Dean are real people. However, I think it's good that Sam and Dean don't have such big heads they think the world revolves around them. They live and work in the shadows, so it makes sense to me they wouldn't be aware there are people out there who will remember them. 

I also don't think Sam and Dean really connect themselves with the characters in the books, even though they were "based" on them.  Think if there were a *real* Batman or Superman reading their comics--would they think of those as their legacy?  And how many people (of the few who read the SPN books) will remember them as they get older, except maybe as some interesting characters they used to have a crush on way back when.  

And, just out of curiosity, if Chuck's unpublished works are on the internet, do you think they include Dean's time in hell and what he did there?  (Since Chuck said he didn't mention Sam drinking demon blood because he thought it would make him unsympathetic, maybe not...but then, even more reason for the boys to disconnect from the stories.)

So, yeah, I agree that Dean, in particular, wouldn't think of any of Chuck's work as being any kind of meaningful legacy (unless, in the far distant future after an Apocalypse that hasn't been averted, his works actually *become* Gospel (did anyone ever read "A Canticle for Liebowitz"?))  

[catrox14]

7 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

I also don't think Sam and Dean really connect themselves with the characters in the books, even though they were "based" on them.  Think if there were a *real* Batman or Superman reading their comics--would they think of those as their legacy?  And how many people (of the few who read the SPN books) will remember them as they get older, except maybe as some interesting characters they used to have a crush on way back when.  

And, just out of curiosity, if Chuck's unpublished works are on the internet, do you think they include Dean's time in hell and what he did there?  (Since Chuck said he didn't mention Sam drinking demon blood because he thought it would make him unsympathetic, maybe not...but then, even more reason for the boys to disconnect from the stories.)

So, yeah, I agree that Dean, in particular, wouldn't think of any of Chuck's work as being any kind of meaningful legacy (unless, in the far distant future after an Apocalypse that hasn't been averted, his works actually *become* Gospel (did anyone ever read "A Canticle for Liebowitz"?))  

I made another comment upthread that expanded more  as to why I found that scene jarring. Sure I was being snarky in my original post but I went on further in another post that explains why that scene just did not work for me. I didn't understand why the show seems to be so eager to ignore its   its own wonderfullyl messy history in a scene that literally talks about the boys legacy.

[ahrtee]

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I made another comment upthread that expanded more  as to why I found that scene jarring. Sure I was being snarky in my original post but I went on further in another post that explains why that scene just did not work for me. I didn't understand why the show seems to be so eager to ignore its   its own wonderfullyl messy history in a scene that literally talks about the boys legacy.

I didn't respond to your second comment because your opinion is valid and I felt no need to contradict or discuss it.  I just wanted to express my thoughts about why the characters (by way of writers) might "ignore" the fictional Winchesters as being "a legacy" for the "real" ones (boy, that sounds silly, doesn't it?  Calling one iteration of fictional characters real and another one fake?)

[Boopsahoy]

14 hours ago, SueB said:

think they are showing Dean doing a more subtle version of a downward spiral.  Sammy has his back, which is great, but he really doesn't know what to do about the continued rejection by Mary.

I think hes more concerned about Cas than hes letting on as well.

13 hours ago, catrox14 said:

got to thinking upon rewatch if maybe he was sublimating his worry over Cas by hooking up. That has been something Dean has done a lot in the past. When he's stressed out and worried and feels like things are falling apart. He even told Sam straight up in American Nightmare when Sam said "You're sublimating" Dean said "Yeah, that's kind of my thing".

Now that I'm thinking about at in a different light...maybe that's what that was all about.

I think this is a big part of what's going on with him. Remember Cas just recently almost died!

[Boopsahoy]

7 hours ago, mertensia said:

It looked to me as if Mr Ketch was trying to figure out why Mary looks the same age.

I didn't even think of that-good catch (Ketch!)

[catrox14]

23 minutes ago, Boopsahoy said:

think this is a big part of what's going on with him. Remember Cas just recently almost died!

I think this is really getting swept under the carpet. How can Dean not be worried about Cas when he almost died and when Cas admitted to the he felt love for them.

holy crap. I just had a thought.

What ifJoshua felt or knew  that Cas had come to ACTUALLY LOVE a human and he was asked to come back under a pretense of helping with the nephelim and that he's going to have the ability to feel love removed. Or what if he wants to have that removed so he doesn't feel guilt.

[Wayward Son]

I watched the episode and wrote up some thoughts! I thought it was an enjoyable enough episode, but it didn't overly inspire me so this post is quite short. 

The Good

• The episode picks up where the last one left off and shows us that Ketch and the BMoL have begun plotting against the boys. I love when there is continuity between the mythology and the MOTW episodes. 

• Darren was an interesting character! I thought the actor played him rather well. Shame he died so soon though :( 

• Goat dude! I love that nickname! We need to find a Lady Goat for him to hook up with, or as some users on here have already said revive Billy so they can be Billie Goat! 

• The Man of Letters in the Bunker. I dislike their presence emotionally, but as a storyline point it makes sense that they have decided that they want to get to know the boys further before directly confronting them. In my opinion, this is the first time they are behaving like sensible villains rather than making the same mistakes as the other baddies the brothers have confronted.

 

The Undecided

• I'm not sure how to feel about Dean's plot line in this episode. I can understand the complaints of those who feel that he was made to look incompetent. However, I wonder if this was done with a purpose. IMO he was shown to become a little too complacent due to the presence of the colt. For instance at the diner he dismisses research into killing the monster because "the colt can kill anything" and he later races upstairs secure because he has it! I wonder if the purpose of this episode was to highlight for the viewer that the colt does not make day to day hunting suddenly without peril. 

• I shouldn't read social media as the carving has already been ruined for me by the Cas haters turning the fact his name wasn't included in the carving as a weapon against Cas fans *sigh* 

 

The Bad

• Dean ditching Sam in the middle of a hunt to hook up with the waitress. If he wants to hook up with her that's fine, but at least wait until the case is over ugh. I am going to put this down to the complacency I mentioned earlier i.e since they already have the colt there was no need for him to worry about researching with Sam. 

• The fact that Mr. Ketch appeared to have a moment of realisation when he spotted the photo of Dean and Mary. Seeing as the Man of Letters have a file on the Winchesters surely they knew that Mary was dead for most of the brothers lives. Especially since it was her death that led to their family becoming hunters in the first place. It was a stupid plot point in my opinion. 

 

The Ugly

• "Hunting People, Killing them" that was an awful twist on the shows classic tag line. 

Edited April 14, 2017 by Wayward Son

[Aeryn13]

Quote

I can understand the complaints of those who feel that he was made to look incompetent. However, I wonder if this was done with a purpose. IMO he was shown to become a little too complacent due to the presence of the colt. 

But he has been incompetent for several episodes now, way before he ever got the Colt. Maybe Rowena did the reversal memory loss spell wrong, either intentionally or on purpose and this is the result? Yikes.  

[Mick Lady]

1 hour ago, Wayward Son said:

Goat dude! I love that nickname! We need to find a Lady Goat for him to hook up with, or as some users on here have already said revive Billy so they can be Billie Goat! 

This made me laugh! Just goes to show that this show is still fun!

[ILoveReading]

1 hour ago, Wayward Son said:

I can understand the complaints of those who feel that he was made to look incompetent. However, I wonder if this was done with a purpose. IMO he was shown to become a little too complacent due to the presence of the colt. For instance at the diner he dismisses research into killing the monster because "the colt can kill anything" and he later races upstairs secure because he has it! I wonder if the purpose of this episode was to highlight for the viewer that the colt does not make day to day hunting suddenly without peril. 

But that wouldn't explain all the eps previous to this one.  He didn't have the colt when he got lost on the way to hunts or wandered aimlessly in the woods or got taken down easily by a werewolf.   I don't Dean's held his own in an episode since 11.  He's was a better hunter with no memory.

If the show is going down the downward spiral route (doubtful) they really need to move that arc forward by giving us Dean's POV.  Because as it stands right now, its too subtle with none of the usual red flags to indicate Dean's mental state.  

I think its mostly a matter of writers not having an actual arc, emotional or physical and they're just not not sure what to do with the character.

[Wayward Son]

8 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

But that wouldn't explain all the eps previous to this one.  He didn't have the colt when he got lost on the way to hunts or wandered aimlessly in the woods or got taken down easily by a werewolf.   I don't Dean's held his own in an episode since 11.  He's was a better hunter with no memory.

If the show is going down the downward spiral route (doubtful) they really need to move that arc forward by giving us Dean's POV.  Because as it stands right now, its too subtle with none of the usual red flags to indicate Dean's mental state.  

I think its mostly a matter of writers not having an actual arc, emotional or physical and they're just not not sure what to do with the character.

I was referring to his overly complacent behaviour in this episode i.e abandoning Sam in the middle of a hunt for a hook up, neglecting to learn much for the research side of things an racing upstairs and jumping into danger without truly knowing what they're dealing with. 

I do agree though that the colts presence doesn't account for the issues fans may have with Deans portrayal in episodes prior to this one :) 

[ZennyKenny]

I found this episode to be surprisingly enjoyable! I'm not even sure why. I suppose maybe because it seemed like J2 doubled-down on the charm for this one.

- Dean making a gun noise with his mouth is WAY more adorable than I think it was meant to be.

- "For medicinal purposes, right?" Lol

- Sam's puppy dog eyes when interrogating the people in the town.

- I love how both Winchesters' personalities shine through when in FBI mode. Dean is stern and straight to business, with a side of sarcasm, while Sam tries to connect with that person to get them to open up.

- I can't point to exactly what, but I remember liking some of the camera work in this episode, messing with depth perception and things in backgrounds.

- The surprisingly touching ending with the etching of their initials.

- I wonder if Ketch finding Mary's photo has made him realize that she shouldn't be the age she appears to be, and I wonder if that means he now thinks of her as a unnatural and must be taken out?

Edited April 14, 2017 by ZennyKenny
more thoughts

[ZennyKenny]

20 hours ago, catrox14 said:

THERE ARE LITERAL GOSPELS written by GOD about you and Dean, Sam. Why on earth are you saying that history doesn't remember guys like them? THE BOOKS ARE STILL ON THE INTERNET. This made no sense.

There was a musical written about you and Dean, Sam that YOU and Dean were part of TWO YEARS AGO.  That is such non sensical writing

 

Yes thank you! This post jogged my memory and reminded me that their conversation made no sense in the context of the popularity of their novels written by Chuck. The books, the play, the convention, the forums, the fan base, the LARPing, etc. It's a pretty huge part of the canon to overlook.

[DittyDotDot]

2 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

Goat dude! I love that nickname! We need to find a Lady Goat for him to hook up with, or as some users on here have already said revive Billy so they can be Billie Goat! 

I noticed quite a few funny little "Bill" references in the episode that this Goat Dude lover loved! IMO, this is when the show is at it's best.

[ZennyKenny]

Also: "I'd rather be with your mother...

*pause*

... hunting in Texas."

Really Ketch? Really, writers? What were the alternative lines like?

"I'd rather be admiring your mom's ass... assin skills, which are quite excellent."
"I made your mother come... down to the office to get the paperwork because we don't trust fax machines."
"I'd rather be inside your mom... 's hotel, where they had a nice bar."

[catrox14]

23 minutes ago, ZennyKenny said:

Also: "I'd rather be with your mother...

*pause*

... hunting in Texas."

Really Ketch? Really, writers? What were the alternative lines like?

"I'd rather be admiring your mom's ass... assin skills, which are quite excellent."
"I made your mother come... down to the office to get the paperwork because we don't trust fax machines."
"I'd rather be inside your mom... 's hotel, where they had a nice bar."

And why did Dean not ping immediately on this as something that he should really should have jumped on to say "What about my Mom,you asshat??"

[ZennyKenny]

9 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

And why did Dean not ping immediately on this as something that he should really should have jumped on to say "What about my Mom,you asshat??"

It's like they are intentionally making Dean dense when it comes to BMoL saying things that should be red flags. Remember how both Winchesters completely and uncharacteristically ignored when the BMoL accused them of being sloppy for letting people live?

[catrox14]

Also, here is a funny outtake from this episode

[catrox14]

Jensen just casually stroking his face with his knife. LOL These dorks.

[Bergamot]

23 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I didn't really like the B plot with BMOL breaking and entering into Sam/Dean's place. I really didn't like the music they played during the BMOL Plot.

Ha, I felt the same way about the music.  It sounded like something from a sixties TV show, and was a very strange choice, I thought. The first thing that came into my head was "What IS this, an episode of "The Man from Uncle?" Which is actually a show that I loved way back when! But it is a vibe that seems so jarring and out of place on Supernatural. I feel that same way about the entire BMOL storyline, though.

23 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Why are they bothering to bug the bunker if their goal is simply to KILL THEM. Just KILL THEM. This is stupid.

Yes! And then they could take all the time they needed in order to check out everything in the bunker. And they wouldn't have to take pictures of things for later because they could just move in if they wanted to!

8 hours ago, Dobian said:

Getting back to the MOTW, I thought this one was kind of lame.  First of all, why does a "god" allow itself to be imprisoned by these yahoos?  Why doesn't it just kill them and go out and feed all it wants on humanity?  It's really going to be held fast by a metal grate?  Really?  And what are these riches this family has been rewarded with all these generations?  They own a meat packing plant in a dumpy town.  You need a god to achieve this kind of "wealth and power"?  Really?  Oy.

This sums up pretty well my feeling about the MOTW. The goat mask was scary (goats are scary looking to me!), but as a monster Moloch was pretty lame. Obviously he could hunt humans for himself so why was he bothering to bribe the sheriff's family, and why was he starving unless they helped him? There seemed to be a disconnect between the way the people from the town talked about Moloch and what we actually saw of him.  For one thing, the bad guy was saying, "He promised me riches!", as if his "god" had been having long persuasive conversations with him, but Moloch came across as more of a wild beast who didn't even talk and he just snarled and growled when we actually saw him in action.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Bergamot
typo

[Commando Cody]

It took me a while to remember which other show someone named Moloch was on. It was Sleepy Hollow. 

I agree, as far as gods go, he wasn't one of the stronger ones.  It seems like they usually have to find some special weapon to off a god on this show. 

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Seriously boys, change the darn locks!  :)  And get a deer cam or something.

Why would the BMoL need to know how Sam gets his hair so shiny just to exterminate them both?  Wasn't that the orders?  Exterminate them?  What difference does this fact-finding mission make?

And whaddya know?  It wasn't Sam tied to a tiny chair for once or knocked in the head.  Lol.  Good for you, Sam.  

Edited April 15, 2017 by RulerofallIsurvey
Poor Sammy's head needs a rest anyhow.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

On 4/13/2017 at 9:00 PM, ILoveReading said:

Sam can do everything.

Yeah, ::sigh:: Yes, he can.  ;)

On 4/13/2017 at 9:26 PM, rue721 said:

Dean carving in his initials made me think that they're going to be saying goodbye to the bunker soon, or at least the Winchesters' control of the bunker.

On the one hand, I thought the same thing.  Then again, they made awfully sure there were a lot of flashbacks to them as boys carving their initials into the trunk of the Impala, and they still have that, so...

I think it may be as someone else noted, they are finally really 'making it their own' instead of just more or less 'squatting' there (memory foam mattress notwithstanding.)  

I, personally, don't want to see the Bunker demolished or them lose it permanently.  I like that after so many years on the road they finally have a home of their own.  A few more eps with crazy motel rooms for old times sake wouldn't hurt though.  

I thought I quoted it, but didn't, and am too lazy right now to go back and look for the comment - but on Ketch's taking Dean's picture of Mary - I thought it looked like a copy?  He'd be pretty stupid to take the original.

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I thought I quoted it, but didn't, and am too lazy right now to go back and look for the comment - but on Ketch's taking Dean's picture of Mary - I thought it looked like a copy?  He'd be pretty stupid to take the original

Ketch doesn't seem like the sharpest tool in the shed. He also seems given to mood swings given his violence directed at that vampire and apparently Lady PotCallingtheKettleBlack refers to Ketch as a psychopath, so I think he would be hubrisy enough to take the picture. 

[catrox14]

So I was really looking at the wonderful set design of that diner and a few things jumped out at me.

The diner was called Gus' Buck Shot, which the big B and big S really shows up as BS which made me laugh.

Over Sam's shoulder there is a sign that says 3Sheep.  I thought maybe that means Dean, Sam and Cas are the lost sheep right now or being led to the slaughter in their own way.

And then I took a closer look at chick Dean hooked up with and from the back in a tanleather jacket...she does not look UNLIKE Young Mary. I don't now what that means and it really bothers me that I noticed that. And it would go with the other weird Oedipal thing Ketch has going on and I REALLLLY REALLLY REALLLY don't want there to be any creepy Oedipal shit with Dean and Mary cause NO SHOW, JUST NO.

No show...Why did you do this? I knew it looked familar but look at what Young Mary wore in Song Remains the Same.

There is a pay phone with a bunch of ads up for Lost Dogs and Lost Cats. (references to Cas being missing for so long?)

All in all I'm gonna have to take a much longer look at that diner scene.

Edited April 15, 2017 by catrox14

[RulerofallIsurvey]

45 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Ketch doesn't seem like the sharpest tool in the shed. He also seems given to mood swings given his violence directed at that vampire and apparently Lady PotCallingtheKettleBlack refers to Ketch as a psychopath, so I think he would be hubrisy enough to take the picture. 

Well, I don't know - he's smart enough to fool Sam and Dean this episode.  Also, the 'mission' was to catalog everything in the bunker, which to me means taking pictures/notes of everything - not taking the actual item.  The whole reason for sending them off to Wisconsin was to get in the bunker without their knowledge.  If they went around taking things - especially personal mementos - that kind of of gives them away.  

I fail to see how 'having a mood swing' with a vampire would mean he wouldn't follow Frau Hess' orders on this to the letter.  He also seemed pretty cold and calculating when taking out Magda, so this mission seems like it would right in line with his skill set.   

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I fail to see how 'having a mood swing' with a vampire would mean he wouldn't follow Frau Hess' orders on this to the letter.  He also seemed pretty cold and calculating when taking out Magda, so this mission seems like it would right in line with his skill set.   

Because I think the dude has a screw loose.  I think he can be cold and calculating when following orders or stalking someone to kill them. Essentially, I think he lacks impulse control about certain things.

His saying he wasn't built for attachment like Mary? NAH. That boy has it bad for Mary IMO. I think when he saw that picture of Mary and Dean he couldn't help himself.

[Mick Lady]

When the BMoL first broke into The Bunker, I thought it was just to get info on other American hunters, but it seems it was much more than that. Not quite sure what they're up to yet.

As for our Boys being remembered: from TMATEOTB;

Dean: This is the guy who decides our fate?

Castiel: He isn't deciding anything. He's a mouthpiece – a conduit for the inspired word.
Dean: The word? The word of god? What, like the new new testament?

Castiel: One day, these books – they'll be known as the Winchester gospel.

Cas said "One day", to me that suggests that in the future everyone will know who the Winchesters are. The books maybe only on line now, but one day they'll actually be part of the Bible! 

[AwesomO4000]

12 hours ago, Dobian said:

Getting back to the MOTW, I thought this one was kind of lame.  First of all, why does a "god" allow itself to be imprisoned by these yahoos?  Why doesn't it just kill them and go out and feed all it wants on humanity?  It's really going to be held fast by a metal grate?  Really?  And what are these riches this family has been rewarded with all these generations?  They own a meat packing plant in a dumpy town.  You need a god to achieve this kind of "wealth and power"?  Really?  Oy.

There was a scene where the police guy explained the family legacy and that he would  no longer go along with it. This is why there was a large gap in the killings when Sam researched it. Also another character explained that the family used to be really wealthy, but lately they had been selling off the property. Instead of the usual reasons for this - mismanagement, gambling debts, etc. - that the other town's people were likely thinking was the reason for the sell off, the real reason was that the god Moloch was no longer providing "wealth and power" and hadn't been for about 20 years, because the police chief wouldn't give him the sacrifices.

As for why Moloch would allow himself to get captured in the first place, I can't say. Maybe witchcraft or magic of some sort was involved in originally capturing him?

3 hours ago, Commando Cody said:

It took me a while to remember which other show someone named Moloch was on. It was Sleepy Hollow. 

There was also a Moloch used on Buffy... the less said about that particular episode the better. Let's just say that computers were involved... and it wasn't pretty. Interestingly though, he also had horns.

[MysteryGuest]

The sheriff did mention something about a binding spell his family did to originally capture the God.  

I think Ketch was looking at the photo of Mary, and actually stroking her face, because he has feelings for her.  And that's a bit distressing to him.  There's no way he's just now suddenly questioning the fact that she hasn't aged.  He knows she's Sam and Dean's mother, and he's spent the past few months in very close contact with her.  Her age, or lack of age, is no surprise.  I think in his own psychotic way, he's fallen in love with her.  

[Boopsahoy]

2 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

I think in his own psychotic way, he's fallen in love with her.

I don't think psychopaths are capable of love-he's obsessed with her more likely!  It really made me mad when he was touching Deans stuff.

[Macbeth]

On 4/13/2017 at 9:26 PM, rue721 said:

Dean carving in his initials made me think that they're going to be saying goodbye to the bunker soon, or at least the Winchesters' control of the bunker.

Yeah - it sounds like the bunker will be the "character" that dies at the end.  I really like the set piece.  I will miss it if it is blown to smithereens.  But given that everyone knows where it is - it has come to the end of its usefulness.  Please don't tell me we are going back to the stinky motels.  How many ways can they dress up that partition?

I really liked it.  I didn't mind Sam saving Dean as Dean did get to kill Hitler this season.  In fact it was nice not to see Sam tied up for once.

And thank you for Dean's fling - let's treat them like the men that they are.  Still didn't get shirtless so boo.

I am not surprised the guys are questioning their legacy.  They abhor the gospels, but they know they can't do anything to change it.  So they compartmentalize it and for the most part live in denial that they exist. 

[Macbeth]

15 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

And whaddya know?  It wasn't Sam tied to a tiny chair for once or knocked in the head.  Lol.  Good for you, Sam.  

I couldn't quite understand the concept - "Why is Dean tied up and Sam isn't"  It was a refreshing change.

[Wayward Son]

1 hour ago, Macbeth said:

And thank you for Dean's fling - let's treat them like the men that they are. 

Are you saying that the only men who are men are those who are promiscious and engage in one night stands? 

Sorry, I'm not trying to be rude. I'm just curious what you meant by that remark :)

[DittyDotDot]

6 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

Are you saying that the only men who are men are those who are promiscious and engage in one night stands? 

Sorry, I'm not trying to be rude. I'm just curious what you meant by that remark :)

I probably shouldn't speak out of turn, but I thought @Macbeth was just saying they're single men who aren't monks and it's good the show remembers that from time to time. 

[Wayward Son]

10 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

I probably shouldn't speak out of turn, but I thought @Macbeth was just saying they're single men who aren't monks and it's good the show remembers that from time to time. 

Ah that makes sense (if that is what Macbeth meant). Thanks @DittyDotDot

[Macbeth]

1 hour ago, Wayward Son said:

Are you saying that the only men who are men are those who are promiscious and engage in one night stands? 

Sorry, I'm not trying to be rude. I'm just curious what you meant by that remark :)

No no no.  What I mean is men do engage in actual sexual activity.  These guys are living pretty monkish lives which is not healthy or realistic.

And since the show runners have made it clear that long term relationships will not be explored (although I am shipping Eileen and Sam) one night stands are all we are going to get,  So we might as well enjoy them when they do show up.

1 hour ago, DittyDotDot said:

I probably shouldn't speak out of turn, but I thought @Macbeth was just saying they're single men who aren't monks and it's good the show remembers that from time to time. 

Thank you Dittydotdot - that's what I was saying.  No need to apologize, I appreciate the help.  I edited my post to thank you.  I hadn't scrolled down to see that you had already defended my honor when I had written my 1st 2 paragraphs.

No worries Wayward Son - I can see why you had misgivings.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Macbeth

[Wayward Son]

6 minutes ago, Macbeth said:

No no no.  What I mean is men do engage in actual sexual activity.  These guys are living pretty monkish lives which is not healthy or realistic.

 

Ah that makes sense! Thanks for clarifying! And sorry if I came off as rude. I just figured I should ask rather than assume the worst :)

[Macbeth]

Just now, Wayward Son said:

Ah that makes sense! Thanks for clarifying! And sorry if I came off as rude. I just figured I should ask rather than assume the worst :)

No worries Wayward Son - I understand your misgivings really.  I could see where you could think ill.  I am always so thrilled to see a seduction on this show that my glee hampered my ability to be articulate.  Much love.

[DittyDotDot]

19 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Where the hell did they get that massive bug?  At the Big Bug Store?  Just wondering which Winchester is going to drop a pencil on the floor, bend over to pick it up, and notice the big ass bug on the underside of the table.  Or Dean just might end up trying to slide the gun in the holster attached to the underside of the table and as a result knocks the bug that is also attached to the underside of the table on to the floor.

I guess The British Men of Letters have never heard of miniaturization. 

::snort:: The Big Bug Store...you have no idea the images that conjured up! ;)

Yeah, like I said, more proof the BMoL are actually idiots despite them thinking they're the smartest folks on the planet.

[SueB]

2 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Where the hell did they get that massive bug?  At the Big Bug Store?  Just wondering which Winchester is going to drop a pencil on the floor, bend over to pick it up, and notice the big ass bug on the underside of the table.  Or Dean just might end up trying to slide the gun in the holster attached to the underside of the table and as a result knocks the bug that is also attached to the underside of the table on to the floor.

I guess The British Men of Letters have never heard of miniaturization. 

Excellent point. That really is very, very old school. Unless it also has some magical properties that require that size to allow it to penetrate the 'only up when the plot needs them' shielding. 

[Katy M]

16 minutes ago, SueB said:

Excellent point. That really is very, very old school. Unless it also has some magical properties that require that size to allow it to penetrate the 'only up when the plot needs them' shielding. 

Mick was in charge of the electronics procuring. Without him they're lost and had to grab something out of storage from the fifties.  Although, it would really be funny if the bug came out of THE bunker.  We know all that stuff is old because it was unoccupied for so long.

[DittyDotDot]

I re-watched the episode and enjoyed it just as much as I did the first time. While I agree with the criticism that the actual monster wasn't all that impressive, I just prefer the show when they don't take themselves so damn seriously. This episode felt everyone was having a ton of fun for some reason, so I'm putting it in the win file.

Plus, Dean shrink-wrapped to that rolly chair is just as funny the second time around! ;)

Also, I am very much enjoying the writing for Dean this season. I am most happy to see him shed all the guilt he's been carrying around for far too long and it's a real pleasure to see him regain some of his zest for life lately. I think it shows that, even though Dean still has his issues with Mary, he's actually in a pretty good place overall and that's not a bad thing, IMO. Well, not a bad thing right now, I'm sure they'll make sure to stomp allover his heart by the end of the season...it wouldn't be Supernatural otherwise. 

Anyhoo, wondered why the guy brought the bodies to the plant? I mean, maybe the freezer isn't the best place to keep your corpses or your Goat God with a health inspector hanging around? Just sayin'. ;)

Oh, and do kids really sit around and make out in front of their friends like that? Seems kinda awkward to me...

[Katy M]

44 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

While I agree with the criticism that the actual monster wasn't all that impressive,

Did we ever actually see the whole of the monster, the actual monster, not Pete, or did we just see glimpses and flashes of his claws and whatnot?  If so, they did what I wish they would have done with the stinking dragons in Like a Virgin instead of turning them into people.  If people were trying to kill you and you could turn into a flying fire breathing animal, why would you assume your human form and fight fair?  Especially the second dragon that arrived on the scene.  OK, major tangent.

 

46 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Anyhoo, wondered why the guy brought the bodies to the plant? I mean, maybe the freezer isn't the best place to keep your corpses or your Goat God with a health inspector hanging around? Just sayin'. ;)

I think it's the perfect place, because nobody likes a health inspector, if you get my drift.

 

47 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Oh, and do kids really sit around and make out in front of their friends like that? Seems kinda awkward to me...

My sister used to hang out in the living room with her boyfriends and make out pretty much right in front of the TV while I was trying to watch General Hospital after school.  So, I'm gonna go with yes.  I'm also now questioning my mother's parenting skills.  Does a 12 year old really need to be watching either of those things?

[catrox14]

Quoting myself:

 

Quote

 

And then I took a closer look at chick Dean hooked up with and from the back in a tan leather jacket...she does not look UNLIKE Young Mary. I don't now what that means and it really bothers me that I noticed that. And it would go with the other weird Oedipal thing Ketch has going on and I REALLLLY REALLLY REALLLY don't want there to be any creepy Oedipal shit with Dean and Mary cause NO SHOW, JUST NO.

No show...Why did you do this? I knew it looked familar but look at what Young Mary wore in Song Remains the Same.

 

 

Young Mary and Dean / Dean and the waitress.

Nope. I can't unsee this now. What the heck show???

 

 

 

I can't unsee this now.  WTH??