Zach and Tori

[65mickey]

Zack said in the very first scene of episode 1 of this season, Caryn ended the conversation. So you can take that with a grain of salt. 

Matt. bought Amy's share of the farm in 2 different negotiations. He paid her close to $2,000,000.  Most children wait for the parents to die to get an inheritance and  then it is usually spit in equal shares. But for some reason Zack and Tori seemed to think that Matt should hand it over at a much reduced price. But what about Molly, Jeremy and Jacob?  Amy even said that he felt like Zack should get the farm. 

[Redrum]

1 hour ago, Dibs said:

ZiT ended up driving to Tori's mother's house for a free lunch and to load up their car with gifts, then unloaded and headed straight over to Amy's house for a free dinner and another carload of gifts.

I mean, this isn't really unusual for lots of families with inlaws on the holidays. I hear coworkers complaining about having to time the two giant meals all the time at the holidays. 

[LilyD]

2 hours ago, Adiba said:

What I am saying is that from my perspective, it was Matt who set up unrealistic expectations to begin with, starting when the twins were young.

This! Add to that his attitude of “my way or the high way”

But I also believe that Matt and Amy’s way of raising the twins gave them wrong ideas about life, entitlement and expectations too, that probably didn’t help either.

[Wollstonecraft]

On 6/13/2022 at 1:57 PM, floridamom said:

Zach & Tori could have found a "nice" house and property and it still could have been a 'revenge' property. I don't understand why they purchased this particular piece. I would not let my young children out of the back door before bushhogging it. Lawn mower?...no, they need a bushhogger. 

Because their whole purpose is to punish Matt. Matt should let them marinate at Casa Dump. Also if I were Caryn, I'd cut ties since she's not really their grandmother and dote on my own.  Who needs to be crapped on by Little Lord Fauntleroy and his dimwitted spouse?  Maybe some absence would be a good idea.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Wollstonecraft

[Jeanne222]

Caryn has been very good about taking care of the children when Matt offers to babysit. 

If she did step in and end the farm conversation it could have been because both parties were getting to overheated in their negotiations. 

We can surmise from now until next season!  But nobody knows what exactly happened!

[Back Atcha]

7 hours ago, 65mickey said:

When did we hear this and who said it? Was it Zack maybe? 

7 hours ago, Redrum said:

I think Caryn said she ended the negotiation, but I'd have to rewatch to make sure.

I think you may be right, Redrum.  At the time I heard--whatever I heard I wondered, "Uhhh... who IS Caryn that she is EVEN negotiating in a family business."   I just hope those chickens she's counting NEVER hatch!!!

[Irate Panda]

1 hour ago, Jeanne222 said:

Caryn has been very good about taking care of the children when Matt offers to babysit. 

If she did step in and end the farm conversation it could have been because both parties were getting to overheated in their negotiations. 

We can surmise from now until next season!  But nobody knows what exactly happened!

Yes, nobody knows exactly what was said, I mean honestly it could have been as simple as Zach and Matt yelling at each other and Caryn saying they should stop.  I don’t hate Caryn, I don’t really like her either.  She’s just kind of there to me. It’s more the fact that I don’t really see Matt blindly ending negotiations about “his empire” because “Caryn said so”.  

I think Zach and Tori were really expecting to get the farm for a significantly reduced rate, which I never expected Matt to do and they were so far away from each other, they could still be sitting in that room and wouldn’t have come to a deal.   The problem with this show is that there are no reliable narrators (Chris probably comes the closest).

In the end, I think Zach and Tori are better off not living on the farm, the problem is they ran off pouting to Battleground.  I still don’t understand the urgency of buying that particular property at that particular time, other than to get a rise out of Matt.  I mean cheapskate Zach won’t buy an extra pack of hotdogs (yeah I’m still mad about that 😒) but has to buy a million dollar property in an overly inflated real estate market.  Other than he and Tori throwing a tantrum, it doesn’t make sense to me.

On a side note, it’s bad enough to use your family for free food, but it is ridiculously tacky and atrocious to get on tv and say that you do and giggle that you ditch them afterwards. Who proudly says stuff like that? Zach’s hamster doesn’t make it all the way around the wheel, I get secondhand embarrassment just listening to him sometimes.

[Absolom]

1 hour ago, Irate Panda said:

I think Zach and Tori were really expecting to get the farm for a significantly reduced rate, which I never expected Matt to do and they were so far away from each other, they could still be sitting in that room and wouldn’t have come to a deal.   The problem with this show is that there are no reliable narrators (Chris probably comes the closest).

That and there are ways to handle delicate situations that do not drive away two of your children in hurt and anger.  Matt set up expectations that he seems to have had no intention of fulfilling and if Tori is close to accurate added insults to the equation.  Then neither Zach or Jeremy seems to have been realistic.  Anyway it's not a good way to run a family.  

Edited June 25, 2022 by Absolom

[Irate Panda]

1 hour ago, Absolom said:

That and there are ways to handle delicate situations that do not drive away two of your children in hurt and anger.  Matt set up expectations that he seems to have had no intention of fulfilling and if Tori is close to accurate added insults to the equation.  Then neither Zach or Jeremy seems to have been realistic.  Anyway it's not a good way to run a family.  

I’m generally not a fan of Matt, I think he can be passive aggressive amongst other things, but imo Zach and Tori wanted something for almost nothing.  I do agree that the twins especially were raised to be entitled.  I blame both parents for that, but at their age they need to bear some of that responsibility and try to act differently.  In this case Zach, as I don’t hear much about Jeremy anymore except what’s posted here.

Again, to me there isn’t really a reliable narrator, but in this case Zach seems mad about the price and that’s what irritates me, as well as seemingly trying to use the grandkids in someway to affect the outcome. As far as insults, if Matt threw out insults it’s wrong, but honestly Tori has questioned Zach’s intelligence and competence on the show and social media probably more than anybody, so she probably shouldn’t die on that hill.  None of them is faultless in this mess, at least not to me, with the limited information I have, but having a toddler announce your move was preposterous, and then sad Matt didn’t react emotionally in front of the toddler was even weirder.  As always YMMV :)

[Redrum]

19 hours ago, Irate Panda said:

As far as insults, if Matt threw out insults it’s wrong, but honestly Tori has questioned Zach’s intelligence and competence on the show and social media probably more than anybody, so she probably shouldn’t die on that hill.

I think this is a situation where context and tone matters. Generally when Tory is making fun of Zach, like his wearing the stupid kepi hat for years or how he totally ignores how she cleaned the kitchen, or calling him and Jackson "knuckleheads", she's teasing about a minor foible and Zach seems to be amused by it. I mean, call me crazy but married couples do tease each other like this. While some may not like this sort of teasing, the tone is never really serious nor does Tory ever seem harsh or genuinely annoyed.

That's not the same as being in a serious business meeting where you're attempting to buy property and your father is declining you in part because of his view that your intelligence and competence is questionable, something that hasn't come up in the many years your father has been insisting he wants his children to take over the property and has been ostensibly training and teaching you for years to do just that. I doubt Matt was "hee hee hee you so dumb, you chucklehead!" 

In one scenario the tone is light, in the other, not so much and over a much more serious matter than how Zach dresses. 

[LilyD]

Just a thought... We all sort of assume that Zach and Tori thought they'd get the farm at a reduced price.

Could it be possible that they simply never imagined the 4 million Matt wants for it? Or, that in their fairly simple minds, they were convinced that the farm wasn't worth more than let's say 1-1.5 million in the first place? 

This may seem far fetched but don't forget that this crazy housing market is something of the last few years., So when they really started to think about it those years back, 1 or 1.5 million may have been fairly correct. And when you conveniently forget about the housing market, or never imagined the property to more than triple?? we're not dealing with the brightest bulbs in the universe here!

Edited June 27, 2022 by LilyD

[Redrum]

4 hours ago, LilyD said:

Could it be possible that they simply never imagined the 4 million Matt wants for it? Or, that in their fairly simple minds, they were convinced that the farm wasn't worth more than let's say 1-1.5 million in the first place? 

Oh I think there was major sticker shock. I think Zach offered 1.5, assuming full cost would be 2 million.

And I respectfully note that Roloff Farms has now been on the market for 44 days in a sellers market at 4 million with no one grabbing it up.

I actually think Matt may have mistimed the market. If he's seriously selling. 

But yes, I think the four million dollar price tag was a surprise.

[Back Atcha]

20 hours ago, Redrum said:

I think this is a situation where context and tone matters

Exactly, Redrum.  I wrote a longer answer but it disappeared with a click!  I think they're a loving couple who knows how to tease...give and take.

[GeeGolly]

I think there are so many messed up dynamics within the Roloff relationships, some of their own making some more due to the little people factor.

Zach was likely treated far younger than his age for years, by his parents and the world at large. He was likely favored due his shared dwarfism with his parents and also spoiled because he was the only child with dwarfism. I think society is lucky he's as mature as he is.

I think Matt has been in competition with the world his entire life and that extends to being in competition with his own sons. And damn it, if he worked hard to acquire what he has, so will his sons.

And then there's Tori. IMO, Tori has a touch of hero syndrome for marrying a little person and now its more inflated because she is raising 3 little people. I hope with the added chaos of adding a third child, she'll set more developmentally appropriate expectations for the older two.

[65mickey]

I agree that in the when the kids were younger, Zack was favored by Amy and Matt. With respect to the farm, Amy even said in episode 1 of this season that she felt like Zack should be given the farm. And why is this?? She has 3 other children. If Zack cannot or will not pay the fair market price for the farm then Matt sells it and  the fair thing would be to wait until Matt passes and then split the estate 4 ways?  

And  judging from what we have seen on this show Zack running a farm is laughable.

Edited June 26, 2022 by 65mickey

[LilyD]

Was Zach really favoured over the other kids because of his achondroplasia? Or did he simply get away with everything because life was so much harder for him compared to the other three? 
In my opinion, they perceived Jeremy as the golden child; the greatly admired wonderboy who could do little wrong and had an amazing future. Zach on the other hand, was always held to lower standards and got a pass more easily.

One example that comes to mind are the rare occasions when school or schoolwork was involved. Zach got away with, or received praise, for the biggest nonsense, whereas Jer was supposed to go to university. (I know Zach isn’t the brightest bulb, but that’s no excuse for his lazy attitude or the crap he sometimes produced)

[ginger90]

[Jeanne222]

23 hours ago, 65mickey said:

I agree that in the when the kids were younger, Zack was favored by Amy and Matt. With respect to the farm, Amy even said in episode 1 of this season that she felt like Zack should be given the farm. And why is this?? She has 3 other children. If Zack cannot or will not pay the fair market price for the farm then Matt sells it and  the fair thing would be to wait until Matt passes and then split the estate 4 ways?  

And  judging from what we have seen on this show Zack running a farm is laughable.

Let’s discuss Amy’s millions and if she should start distributing it to Zack and Tori!

I’m amazed she gives nothing but expects Matt to give away his half of their divorce settlement and wants to tell who should get what and how much!

No wonder nobody likes Amy. Shame on her for ever suggesting Matt give anything to anybody!  Butt out!!!

[Redrum]

7 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

Let’s discuss Amy’s millions and if she should start distributing it to Zack and Tori!

Is she dying? Are they asking her for money?

7 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

I’m amazed she gives nothing but expects Matt to give away his half of their divorce settlement and wants to tell who should get what and how much!

Has she said anything other than Matt's gonna do what Matt's gonna do?

For that matter, Zach and Jeremy were very NON supportive of Amy continuing to share the property with Matt. As I recall, they both were encouraging her to sell her interest to Matt so that Matt could then figure out what decision he was going to make in having one or both of the boys take over.  So when Amy was trying to hold onto the property both of her sons were actively on Matt's side wanting her to sell. Seems like they are reaping what they were sowing, now Matt's in charge and Matt wants them to cough up 4 million. Amy may not have a lot of sympathy for their plight, all things considered. 

But even then, per *Matt*, Amy was willing to encourage the twins to buy from Matt by offering a gift of equity.

Aside from noting that Zach is unhappy and Matt is often turns family situations into business transactions, Amy's been pretty quiet on this topic. I certainly haven't seen her telling Matt to give away the property.

I also haven't seen Zach and Tory ask to buy Amy's property, or even express all that much interest in her property. Since Matt didn't *volunteer* to sell his property and is soundly cheered for not giving it away, and Amy has really stayed out of the discussion, I'm not sure why there would be any expectation that she would or should do what Matt won't. 

[65mickey]

Of course there was no expectation that Amy wouldl help them financially to buy the farm. They know she won't.  If Amy was so concerned that Zack be given the farm why didn't she say to Matt I'll sign over my 1/2of the farm to Zack. No she got her money close to $2,000,000 but now Matt should be willing to sell out to Zack for a fire sale price. He would be stupid to fall for this. If he has any sense at all he will tell all 4 kids when I die you will get your share of the estate. Until that time I need the money to live on. That is what most parents do.  

[Redrum]

5 minutes ago, 65mickey said:

Of course there was no expectation that Amy wouldl help them financially to buy the farm. They know she won't.

Actually Matt said in his instagram comments that Amy and he, and not just him, were willing to give the boys a gift of equity. That is usually a significant financial gift.

7 minutes ago, 65mickey said:

 If Amy was so concerned that Zack be given the farm why didn't she say to Matt I'll sign over my 1/2of the farm to Zack.

Zach wasn't interested at the time and Matt had the right of refusal to anyone she wanted to sell the farm to - basically he had to agree to it in order for Amy to sell to anyone other than him. They do talk about this in some of the Amy vs Matt episodes. 

9 minutes ago, 65mickey said:

No she got her money close to $2,000,000 but now Matt should be willing to sell out to Zack for a fire sale price.

She hasn't said this at all. She's actually been pretty noncommital. As for the price.... no one seems to be snapping it up at Matt's so generous 4 million. Its been on the market 46 days now. 

11 minutes ago, 65mickey said:

If he has any sense at all he will tell all 4 kids when I die you will get your share of the estate. Until that time I need the money to live on. That is what most parents do.  

I don't disagree. Unfortunately Matt set the expectation with the twins that he wanted them to take over the farm. Likewise, Amy has been more than generous in how she raised those kids and if they were asking for her property - they haven't - she would be equally right as Matt to tell them  to pay fair market value or wait until she's dead.

[Endora]

3 hours ago, ginger90 said:

Tori is no prize package but honestly I don’t know how she does it!

[stoppro]

3 hours ago, ginger90 said:

WTF

[ginger90]

**No, you have not stumbled into the Jeremy and Audrey thread…..

[chenoa333]

Should she pump? Ask Zach. He'll say "YES! Let's pump!" 

I hope that baby isn't going to have to play 3rd fiddle to Prince Jackson like Lilah does.  

[Dustbunny]

23 hours ago, chenoa333 said:

Should she pump? Ask Zach. He'll say "YES! Let's pump!" 

I hope that baby isn't going to have to play 3rd fiddle to Prince Jackson like Lilah does.  

yes it was gross lazy ass Zach who suggested hooking her up to a industrial barn compressor pump or some such disgusting suggestion  🙄

how about we hook zachs mouth up to a barn pump.

[beagletime]

On 6/27/2022 at 9:16 PM, ginger90 said:

**No, you have not stumbled into the Jeremy and Audrey thread…..

Tori, my suggestion would be call your doctor, advice nurse or a midwife.   I understand engagement on social media, but this drives me crazy.   But if she called a doctor she wouldn't have fans telling her how special and brave she is. 

[chenoa333]

On 6/27/2022 at 5:32 PM, Endora said:

Tori is no prize package but honestly I don’t know how she does it!

They call it "double bagging" at the grocery stores.

And why not post a pic of the baby looking happy? Is that such a rare occurrence with daddy Zach? 

[riverblue22]

I think that "creek" in their yard is more of a drainage ditch--and it's full of junk apparently. Reminds me of the Sister Wives and their "pond."

When they were building Lilah's bed I was afraid Jackson was going to poke Lilah's eye out.  That ladder and those poles were dangerous!

So why am I sitting here listenening to this very dull young woman talk about her pregnancy and her toddlers?  Who cares--there are a zillion young mothers who would be more entertaining than Tori.

The adults are more interesting on this show than the young people.  How about taking us on the Canadian motorcycle trip with Amy and Chris?

[Endora]

7 hours ago, riverblue22 said:

I think that "creek" in their yard is more of a drainage ditch--and it's full of junk apparently. Reminds me of the Sister Wives and their "pond."

It will probably be over run with mosquitos and bugs in the summer.  

[babyhouseman]

8 hours ago, riverblue22 said:

I think that "creek" in their yard is more of a drainage ditch--and it's full of junk apparently.

Zach and Tori think they are on waterfront property.

[ginger90]

[Irate Panda]

10 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

I think the baby looks like Matt.

[Endora]

3 hours ago, Irate Panda said:

I think the baby looks like Matt.

Tori will just love that!

[stoppro]

New storyline "tori doing matt in a effort to get farm fails gets baby instead' Perfect!

[readheaded]

6 hours ago, Irate Panda said:

I think the baby looks like Matt.

Me, too!

[Joan of Argh]

7 hours ago, Irate Panda said:

I think the baby looks like Matt.

Definitely a Mini Matt 

Si Si!     Really??  😂

tori and her cutesy names… Babe UH!  Baby J.  Lilah Bean and now Si Si!

[iwantcookies]

Their kids are not cute. Mini Matt is all I see.

[CrazyInAlabama]

I'm wondering if the try to get the farm, plus having so many kids, is an attempt to take over the show with Zach and Tori's family. 

[Ms.Lulu]

Everything online says Tori is  5'5" or 5'6". In some of the earlier episodes you can see Tori is shorter than Molly.  She looks so tall because Zach is 4'3".  14 inches in a huge height differential.  Plus, I think she is big boned.  The height difference is the same as if Tori were dating Scottie Pippen.

Tori just isn't surrounded by tall people on the show, she is seen with her family and her in-laws.  Chris Marek is 5'8"ish and Caryn is likely 5'6".

Edited July 2, 2022 by Ms.Lulu

[Dibs]

On 6/23/2022 at 9:42 AM, Jeanne222 said:

They are the show with three dwarf children.

I suspect that's more or less what Zach said when he went into that meeting.  As Matt said, he was there to demand; not negotiate.

On 6/24/2022 at 3:10 PM, Redrum said:

I mean, this isn't really unusual for lots of families with inlaws on the holidays.

It's not unusual at all for young families to race from one spouse's family to the other spouse's family on holidays -- except when the adult kids announce that they're doing the holidays alone, without the inlaws, this year.  Guess they meant "except for mealtimes."

[Redrum]

I do seem to recall that they did specifically say they would visit Amy on Christmas day. Were they not supposed to because Amy made a meal? She asked them to visit and they did... I guess I don't see what they did wrong here. 

[Dibs]

On 6/24/2022 at 9:47 PM, Absolom said:

That and there are ways to handle delicate situations that do not drive away two of your children in hurt and anger.  Matt set up expectations that he seems to have had no intention of fulfilling and if Tori is close to accurate added insults to the equation.  

Matt really can't help it if a dose of reality "hurts, offends, and drives away" his entitled, delusional, unrealistic, spoiled, ungrateful son and his equally ridiculous wife.  There's no "nice" way to tell them they're crazy if that's the case.  Also, again, Matt's HOPE that one of them would one day take over the farm isn't synonymous with a PROMISE to "gift" it to them while he's still alive and needs money to live on.

In spite of being 60 years old, at which point people should no longer have any concerns about finances, according to the Gospel of Zach.

Edited July 3, 2022 by Dibs

[Dibs]

On 6/26/2022 at 5:48 AM, LilyD said:

Just a thought... We all sort of assume that Zach and Tori thought they'd get the farm at a reduced price.

Could it be possible that they simply never imagined the 4 million Matt wants for it? Or, that in their fairly simple minds, they were convinced that the farm wasn't worth more than let's say 1-1.5 million in the first place?

We're not dealing with the brightest bulbs in the universe here!

I honestly believe they don't - or didn't - understand that what Matt paid Amy was for only HALF the property, since he co-owned it.  I honestly believe they think Amy owned it outright and what Matt paid was the appraised value of the property in its entirety.  I also honestly believe they don't realize real estate value has doubled and tripled since that transaction took place.  I honestly believe they're stupid...

15 minutes ago, Redrum said:

I do seem to recall that they did specifically say they would visit Amy on Christmas day. Were they not supposed to because Amy made a meal? She asked them to visit and they did... I guess I don't see what they did wrong here. 

They reluctantly backpedaled and agreed to "probably" see her on Christmas Day AFTER they announced that they'd be spending the holiday alone and Amy visibly pouted about it.  Probably afraid of losing their new go-to babysitting service... 

Edited July 3, 2022 by Dibs

[Dibs]

On 7/1/2022 at 7:57 AM, Irate Panda said:

I think the baby looks like Matt.

He looks exactly like Matt (just as Lilah looks exactly like Amy, IMO).

That's Tori's karma for spending her entire pregnancy with Si Si hating on her FIL.

20 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I'm wondering if the try to get the farm, plus having so many kids, is an attempt to take over the show with Zach and Tori's family. 

Elementary, dear Watson!  No doubt why Tori married Zach.  Oops!

[Jeanne222]

2 hours ago, Dibs said:

He looks exactly like Matt (just as Lilah looks exactly like Amy, IMO).

That's Tori's karma for spending her entire pregnancy with Si Si hating on her FIL.

Elementary, dear Watson!  No doubt why Tori married Zach.  Oops!

Does Isaiah have the same dwarfism as Matt?

[ginger90]

2 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

Does Isaiah have the same dwarfism as Matt?

Amy, Zach, Jackson, Lilah, and Josiah all have achondroplasia. Matt has diastrophic dysplasia.

[readheaded]

On 7/3/2022 at 2:28 PM, Dibs said:

I honestly believe they don't - or didn't - understand that what Matt paid Amy was for only HALF the property, since he co-owned it.  I honestly believe they think Amy owned it outright and what Matt paid was the appraised value of the property in its entirety.  I also honestly believe they don't realize real estate value has doubled and tripled since that transaction took place.  I honestly believe they're stupid...

They reluctantly backpedaled and agreed to "probably" see her on Christmas Day AFTER they announced that they'd be spending the holiday alone and Amy visibly pouted about it.  Probably afraid of losing their new go-to babysitting service... 

I thought I heard them tell Amy they'd see her on Christmas Day when they told her they wouldn't be joining her Christmas week. Then, later when it was just the 2 of them, they discussed going to her mom's too on Christmas Day.

[ginger90]

On 7/3/2022 at 2:23 PM, Dibs said:

Also, again, Matt's HOPE that one of them would one day take over the farm isn't synonymous with a PROMISE to "gift" it to them while he's still alive and needs money to live on.

Exactly.

[Redrum]

I don't recall any of the kids not making financial offers to buy the property. Even if Zach offered a lowly one million for the property - that's not asking Matt to sign over the property with no money changing hands.