Season 1 Talk

[Paloma]

On 4/14/2017 at 2:58 PM, Ripley68 said:

at this point all I see is a counselor who doesn't know how to cope with teenage angst very well

I don't see Porter as creepy or sketchy at all. He comes across as well-meaning but maybe not properly trained to deal with these problems. He certainly seems to care more about the students than the principal and some other teachers.

[Mama No Life]

Thank you!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

One other thing I noticed is that the other cheerleaders had their hair done in what is considered game ready style but Jessica had hers pulled back into a sloppy low ponytail with lots of hair hanging on either side of her face, which is normally not allowed for high school or college cheerleaders (it's usually either neatly up off the face in a high ponytail or totally down). Between that and her lackluster dancing/tumbling, she really stood out as not belonging on the team so I was really trying to figure out how she got on the team. But the reports from other people about choosing the cheerleaders as a literal popularity contest would explain that. It's still mind boggling to me that it's done that way at other schools!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Ha, it was a bit like Big Little Lies in that sense - trying to figure out who died based on who was shown in the present tense scenes!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I don't necessarily think that Porter cares more about the students than the others. I think he has more personal contact/one on one interactions with them than the principal or the teachers so he has a different perspective, but I don't necessarily think that he cares more. His interactions with them and the questions he asks them makes me feel like he has ulterior motives that are not necessarily about their well being.

[DittyDotDot]

1 hour ago, Paloma said:

I don't see Porter as creepy or sketchy at all. He comes across as well-meaning but maybe not properly trained to deal with these problems. He certainly seems to care more about the students than the principal and some other teachers.

Yeah, his comment about transferring from a school where the students shot each other instead of pantsed them said to me he's just not in his wheelhouse at this school. I think he probably cares, but also probably thinks these kids don't have a clue how bad it could be, and probably thinks of them as drama queens. Which is not really a good thing for a counselor to think if he actually wants to be helpful.

Edited April 16, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

I always wondered why Bryce wouldn't have a tape but I guess it was just that the others weren't telling him for whatever reason. Why do they feel the need to protect him from it all? Because he can bring them all down with him?

I think it was two different things. The first is that there was a tacit agreement that you only discuss the tapes and what Hannah said on the tapes with people who have already heard them. Since Bryce was so far down on the list, they couldn't just say, "Hey, Bryce, Hanna said you raped both her and Jessica. Care to comment?" They were supposed to wait until Bryce heard his tape before they said anything to him about what he did. I think that's one of the reasons why Marcus, Courtney, and Justin kept telling Clay to stop listening to the tapes and just pass them on. They knew if he heard that Bryce had raped Hannah, he wasn't going to keep quiet about it.

The second thing was that in order to bring Bryce down for either of the two rapes, they would have to admit that Hannah was telling the truth, get Jessica to admit that she was raped, and turn the tapes over to the police which would expose all the shitty things that the rest of them did. Marcus, Courtney, and Justin were insistent that Hannah was lying (because the truth made them look like assholes) so they didn't want to admit that Hannah was telling the truth.

From a practical point of view, convicting Bryce of rape would be very difficult. There was no physical evidence from either rape because neither girl went to the police to have a rape kit done afterward. Hannah is dead so all Bryce has to say is that it's his word against hers. She can't refute anything he says. Jessica didn't want to admit she'd been raped and even if she did report it, she would have to admit that she was so drunk that she passed out and unfortunately, that would not work in her favor at trial. Keep in mind that I am NOT defending Marcus, Courtney, or any character who wanted to keep the tapes secret. I'm just saying from a logical and legal standpoint, a rape conviction would be VERY unlikely due to the lack of evidence so Marcus and Courtney don't want to ruin their perfect reputations for a crime that would go unpunished/unconvicted. It wasn't so much that they were actively trying to protect Bryce as that they were willing to stay silent in order to save themselves from being outed for what they'd done to Hannah (and being gay, in Courtney's case).

[ElectricBoogaloo]

If you search Netflix for 13 Reasons, the special pops up separately.

[Guest]

On 4/14/2017 at 5:38 AM, MsNewsradio said:

This bothered me a lot. There is no way that under the circumstances of the crash that his blood alcohol level wouldn't have been checked. Due to the nature of the accident they would have done a full tox screen to see if he had either alcohol or drugs in his system.

This bothered me, too.  

[Clanstarling]

It is amazing, whether it's the writing or the acting, that I can feel any sympathy for Justin, especially since he pretty much wanted to actually kill Clay to keep the secrets from coming out. But I do. He's absolutely wrong in every thing he does, but I can't help seeing him as a wounded puppy - as most of them are, to some extent, but from what we've seen, he has the worst home life by far. We haven't seen (so far) much motive behind Marcus' douchery - he's more in the Bryce category at this moment (for me, anyway).

Though I'm not sure about Alex's family. The actor who plays his father generally plays characters who are at best, morally grey. That and the "yes, sir/no, sir" stuff kind of raises my hackles. It doesn't in Jessica's case - because that's a military family and I was raised that way as well. Maybe cops do the same thing and there isn't any hidden dynamic.

[Guest]

I finished this last night and have mixed feelings.  I was angry and disgusted at the show by the second graphic rape scene because I hate when dramas go to that well, especially repeatedly, but I suppose in this case there was at least some PSA aspect to the show.  I always respected TV writers who will write all sorts of graphic, shock value violence but will not mine that topic out of respect for the true seriousness of the act and its victims.  

I thought the show was too long.  I understand they wanted to go 13 hours but it would've been a tighter show in half that.  There was too little going on.  Compare it to say Orange Is The New Black where a one hour episode would go deep into some inmate's back story and it felt like a self-contained story, to some extent.  This show would just touch briefly on one act of bullying and then spend a ton of time on Clay looking pensive and the kids jabbering.  

My high school junior quit watching around ep 3 because the characters were too phony for her.  I'm torn about suggesting she finish it.  If she asks I think I'll warn her it never rises to great material and it shows graphic rapes and she can choose.  She read it in junior high, too.

But it did suck me in and made me think, which is always good.  I don't want to see a second season because I think sometimes you should just leave well enough alone and find new material.  

[Guest]

Alex's father's reaction to Alex's beating disgusted me.  If my kid came home looking like that, I'd be filing assault charges.  But he was proud of him.  I think the makeup people overdid things.  Alex looked like he needed to go to the ER but they acted like it was some little black eye is all.  

[Clanstarling]

On 4/14/2017 at 7:25 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

But it has to be Tyler since he's the one who bought a gun earlier in the episode. I guess it could be Jessica since she knows the combination to her dad's safe. I want to know what other info Tyler has, damn it!

Tyler, Jessica, and Alex (whose father would have a gun in the home) definitely have access, and Justin took a gun as well as cash from the cooking pot (just replayed the scene to make sure). So there are a lot of guns out there. They could either have turned the gun on themselves, or someone else. (the ambulance guys just said "17 year old with a gunshot wound to the head" - no gender, no "self-inflicted". So I think the field is wide open.

[jeansheridan]

On Tuesday, April 04, 2017 at 9:04 PM, niklj said:

didn't have any sad soundtrack, weird fades, and didn't cut away from the painful aspects to make it look beautiful.

I don't think they needed to show it.  It wasn't in the book for a good reason.  I think just the drama of it and the good lighting makes it glamorous.    She looks gorgeous.   Her mother's reaction is warm and caring.  

Her rape was truly awful and the actress choosing to go all rag doll was a painful but realistic choice.  

Of course the way the book and show are designed is total wish fulfillment.   I had no control but now I do.  You will listen to me and you don't get to argue.

Alex's story is actually the more compelling one.  I just wasn't paying enough attention. Well played producers.  I liked that actor a lot.  He could have played Clay easily.  

And I loved Clay.  The actor reminds me of a young Ed Norton.  Not too handsome but had charm.

One last quibble.   For a show with plenty of kissing( positive and negative ) Tony gets no action?  They clearly went out of their way to create a diverse cast which is awesome.  So let the gay kids have their moments please.  Tony's boyfriend wanted to kiss him when they were at that lookout.

Edited April 16, 2017 by jeansheridan

[Guest]

They did have the Courtney/Hannah kisses.  

[Clanstarling]

On 4/2/2017 at 11:37 AM, DittyDotDot said:

I'm not sure how I feel about a S2. Not because of Hannah, but because I think they told their story and made their point, to continue on might water it down for me. Although, I could see them doing another season and following the aftermath of a completely different set of characters. I don't know right now.

For me, the story is complete. Sure there are hanging threads, but I don't feel the need to explore them. (pull on them?)

On 4/3/2017 at 8:24 PM, ban1o said:

I would hope so. The guy was an asshole but I couldn't help but feel a little bad for him. I don't really think he was an inherently a bad person. It seemed his friendship with Bryce made him that way  and that he wasn't able to stand up to him but he felt indebted to the guy because he was always there for him throughout his shitty family situation. By the end you could really see that his world was falling apart. 

But ugh at him for not only letting his girlfriend get raped but lying about it for so long. SMH. And for letting Bryce spread that picture and not speaking up to defend Hannah. If there is a season 2 (which I'm not sure?) he better have changed.

I wonder if there was an intentional parallel made between Justin and his mother. She didn't step in to help Justin, Justin didn't step in to help Jessica. They're both battered people who don't know how to step up for anyone, especially against someone they feel indebted to.

On 4/4/2017 at 9:28 PM, General Days said:

I so agree. I hated Justin and totally bled for him. This kid had no tools to deal with this shit.

Indeed.

On 4/7/2017 at 3:31 PM, absnow54 said:

I was dubious about this show getting a second season, and I get that Tom Everett Scott isn't nearly as famous as, I for some reason, think he is, but I doubt they cast him as Tyler's dad in a non-speaking role for a 0.25 second appearance without plans for a season 2.

Since it never even occurred to me there'd be another season, I was puzzled by his very brief appearance. I do think he did actually speak in that first scene with Tyler, though.

On 4/9/2017 at 10:04 AM, marieYOTZ said:

I found myself struggling most with how to deal with the counselor. He seemed like a decent guy, and at times during his meeting with Hannah was hitting the right beats, but something about the whole "well if you're not going to tell me who did it your only other option might be to move on" exchange left a bad taste in my mouth.  I can definitely understand why he didn't acknowledge that final convo to anyone after Hannah's death, because what a massive failure of seeing-the-signs. I found myself liking the guy throughout the series, maybe because i like the actor, but that final interaction with Hannah really disturbed me.

Given that I was thinking much worse,  it was almost a relief that "all" he did was fuck up royally. Horribly, but at least without intent.

On 4/10/2017 at 7:10 AM, truthaboutluv said:

This exactly. I meant to mention that and I do think it's very significant. The only thing Clay got Bryce to admit, was what he did to Hannah who is dead and therefore, no longer there to fight for herself and get justice for herself. I guess you can view her tapes in that way but that's debatable since on one hand it seemed less about her righting the wrong that was done to her and more a last "fuck you" to the people she felt helped contribute to her decision to take her life. But he never asks Bryce about Jessica and instead, he goes to Jessica and asks her what she wanted to do. 

And her last "fuck you" included inciting the listeners to bully Tyler by throwing stones through his window, and resulted in Alex's attempted suicide. That's quite a fuck you. I sympathize greatly with Hannah, the world's been harsh to me too, but with the exception of the rapes, what she did with these tapes was, imo, more cruel than anything they did to her.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Clanstarling

[truthaboutluv]

34 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

And her last "fuck you" included inciting the listeners to bully Tyler by throwing stones through his window, and resulted in Alex's attempted suicide.

The thing is though, the same way some can make the argument that ultimately Hannah's suicide was her decision and her choice, I don't think it's fair to entirely blame those actions on her. The kids decided to punish Tyler the way they did and YMMV but I'm not going to feel sorry for Tyler's being a creepy, stalkerish peeping tom being made public. I might have if he'd shown remorse and apologized for it but he didn't and instead was defensive to Clay when confronted about it.

As for Alex's attempted suicide. I think it's obvious that Alex had his own issues prior to Hannah's suicide. Admittedly, hearing the tapes and the guilt he had probably didn't help but we saw his conversation with Clay after Jeff died, which happened before Hannah's suicide, that hinted at his already having his own personal struggles. I'm not saying the guilt of the tapes didn't contribute but I don't agree that that alone led to the his action. And it's similar to Hannah's tapes, which showed that it was a series of incidents that led to her suicide and not just one thing. 

[JustaPerson]

I was wondering where Kat was throughout the rest of the series. It seemed like Hannah kept in touch with her in the first episode, but she wasn't seen again until she showed up for her testimony. Did Hannah pull away from her too? 

[JustaPerson]

I thought it was sad that Clay's tape was essentially giving Clay closure on their relationship (absolving him of guilt, explaining what happened that night at the party), but at the same time it would never will. Clay will always know that it could have been something but never would. When Hannah started talking about how she would "ruin him" I (and Clay) thought Hannah, no! She was so close to that vision of them she saw, but she didn't believe it was possible for her. 

Edited April 16, 2017 by JustaPerson

[Clanstarling]

I wondered who she mailed the other set to. Seems like it wasn't Tony - there'd be no need to mail it. I wondered, after seeing Kat at the end and not quite recognizing her, if it was Kat.

[The Mighty Peanut]

I didn't think the suicide looked glamorous. I thought it looked like someone who googled how to commit suicide right the first time. Cut vertical. Do it in the bath to eliminate mess. Use warm water to encourage the flow of blood. Wear clothing if being discovered nude is a concern to you. 

It hurt. There was SO much blood. She died terrified and alone, IMO regretting her decision once it was too late to change it. For anyone who thinks it's a brief moment of pain followed by immediate blissful sleep...no. 

Edited April 17, 2017 by The Mighty Peanut

[oceanlover]

I was also wondering who she mailed the set of tapes to, and who was she on the phone with (someone she was going to go see) when she forgot about the bank deposit on top of the car and lost it?

50 year old lady here and I enjoyed the series as well!  High school was not an easy time, I was an awkward kid.  I could not imagine going through it again with social media and texting. 

[Mama No Life]

6 minutes ago, oceanlover said:

I was also wondering who she mailed the set of tapes to, and who was she on the phone with (someone she was going to go see) when she forgot about the bank deposit on top of the car and lost it?

50 year old lady here and I enjoyed the series as well!  High school was not an easy time, I was an awkward kid.  I could not imagine going through it again with social media and texting. 

She was going to see Clay. He called about her final paycheck.  I think that's why she was so distracted, because it was Clay.

I assumed she was mailing the tapes to the first person. Didn't the tapes all get sent to people through the mail?  Clay's had postal information on the front.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Mama No Life

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, oceanlover said:

I was also wondering who she mailed the set of tapes to, and who was she on the phone with (someone she was going to go see) when she forgot about the bank deposit on top of the car and lost it?

I wondered who the package went to but I thought she was on the phone with Clay and he was telling her she could come pick up her paycheck, maybe?  

She dropped the one box of tapes on Tony's doorstep herself.  He ignored it, which is why he felt partly responsible and rushed to her house.  I think the box Clay got was just taped up and said "Clay" on it and left on his porch?  

Edited April 16, 2017 by Guest

[Paloma]

17 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

It's separate from the show, @Mama No Life.  Do a search on Netflix for "Beyond the Reasons" and it'll come up.

When my husband and I were watching, it came on automatically after the last regular episode. Apparently this was how it was intended to appear, so I don't know why some people had to look for it. Here's an explanation that I found in an interesting piece on the pros and cons of this series as a Netflix show: https://cultural-learnings.com/2017/04/02/13-reasons-why-is-a-teen-show-built-for-netflix-for-better-or-worse/ "And when I eventually reached the end of the show’s season, I was surprised when my Netflix continued to auto-play into a 30-minute featurette....The choice to have this bonus content play automatically upon completing the season is notable: I can’t think of another Netflix show where this has happened, and it shows an intriguing use of the distinct nature of Netflix distribution. By using the flow of “auto-play” in this way, Netflix presents the show’s educational function as part of the show itself—while some might immediately stop the feature from playing, and it does not appear as a formal “episode” of the show (buried instead in the “Trailers & More” tab), that most viewers will be presented with it in the moments following the show’s conclusion is nonetheless meaningful outreach and highlights the show’s strength in this area." 

[Lady Calypso]

42 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

She dropped the one box of tapes on Tony's doorstep herself.  He ignored it, which is why he felt partly responsible and rushed to her house.  I think the box Clay got was just taped up and said "Clay" on it and left on his porch?  

Well, she mailed the first set of tapes to Justin, the first person on the tapes. But the second set, she just walked it over to Tony's and left it with him. Once Justin got it, the cycle started as each kid passed them along. So it was Sheri who sent the tapes to Clay. 

[Mama No Life]

^ My take as well.

[oceanlover]

Ok, that is painfully obvious now (about the tapes!)

Thank you!

[shelley1234]

I figured that Tony was the Gate Keeper of the tapes when he was just everywhere....and said he wasn't in them.   Nice confirmation though...and glad they didn't try to keep it as a deep dark secret.  

It is clear everyone else is trying to get the tapes from Clay so he doesn't pass them on to Bryce....especially when one of the guys said "should we be doing this HERE" when they were talking about the plan with Clay.   Bryce is clearly not affected by this and has no idea there are tapes.  

I am disappointed with Clay sending that nude pic of Tyler.   Sure, kid is a creeper...but Clay just let his anger turn himself into him.   Did he not listen to Hannah that one small thing, one picture can change your life and just make it not worth living.   Good job Clay.  Asshole.  

[Jax7917]

Just watched this episode . I never read the books but I assume The reason for clay being on the tapes won't be shown until the last tape and it's him who she liked all along . Girl has it written all over her face that she wants him 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

with the exception of the rapes, what she did with these tapes was, imo, more cruel than anything they did to her.

I disagreed with this when someone on the show (Marcus?) said it and I still disagree with it after seeing the entire series. No one was accidentally mean to Hannah. They made deliberate choices to betray her or hurt her while she was alive. Alex and Jessica chose to sneak around behind Hannah's back and not tell her they were dating. Alex chose to break up with Jessica because she wouldn't have sex with him and then he chose to pit Hannah and Jessica against each other by putting them on the hot or not list. Tyler chose to stalk her. Courtney chose to spread lies about Hannah to distract everyone from her own sexuality. Marcus chose to try to put his hand between her legs in public (which is sexual battery) and then slut shame her in front of everyone at the restaurant because she had the nerve not to want to be finger banged in a restaurant by a guy who stood her up. These people made choices to hurt her, shame her, humiliate her, and make her feel like shit. Many of the things Hannah discussed on the tapes were public knowledge in one way or another. All she did was tell her side of the story. If people chose to throw rocks through Tyler's window, the blame belongs with Tyler for doing something that creepy and with anyone who threw rocks to retaliate. But Hannah choosing to say that she was FUCKING STALKED does not make her the bad guy. Explaining why her former friend put her on a hot list (to get even with his girlfriend who wouldn't have sex with him) doesn't make Hannah the bad guy. Hannah is not responsible for how other people reacted to THE TRUTH. If she had been telling bald faced lies on the tapes in order to incite people to violence, that would be one thing but I have a really hard time believing that telling her side of the story (as opposed to letting people continue to believe the rumors and lies created by other people) is meaner than what they did to her.

Edited April 18, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo
Because she is not the same as he

[Mama No Life]

^Absolutely.

[Jax7917]

Why is Clay 17 and in 10th grade ? 

Why is he going around town asking people when he'll show up on the tapes ? You have the tapes . LISTEN to them !! 

Hannahs pwrsonality is so annoying and I can't warm up to her . I don't really feel bad for her at this point which is pretty bad . And Hannah , no one forced u to commit suicide . It's aggravating that she keeps telling people to listen up for their names on the tape so they can know what they did to make her kill herself . 

[MV007]

I think with this being tape 2, the expectation is that things get worse and that these first few incidents have a spiraling effect

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, Jaclyn88 said:

Why is Clay 17 and in 10th grade ? 

We had this question initially, too, but I think he was in 10th grade in some of or all of the flashbacks and 17 and a junior in the current time?  Though I don't really recall how much time has passed between the two so I could be wrong.  

This was the ep when I didn't think I could take more of Hannah's personality but I pushed through and she did get less annoying.  Or at least less quippy.  

Edited April 17, 2017 by Guest

[jeansheridan]

On Friday, April 07, 2017 at 6:46 PM, Kalliste said:

Clay meant to be Veronica and Hannah is Lily? That being said, I get maj

For me Hannah is Veronica.  The voiceover.  I think it is more about how the show tried to make it feel like a mystery/crime.  How everyone has secrets and is corrupt.  Veronica had that vibe.  Plus she had the murder and date rape plots.  It isn't quite working but I felt it.  I much preferred season one of Veronica.  But it had a different goal.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

9 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

We had this question initially, too, but I think he was in 10th grade in some of or all of the flashbacks and 17 and a junior in the current time?  Though I don't really recall how much time has passed between the two so I could be wrong.  

This was the ep when I didn't think I could take more of Hannah's personality but I pushed through and she did get less annoying.  Or at least less quippy.  

The present day scenes take place in October and November of Clay's junior year. The earliest flashbacks take place shortly before his sophomore year begins. A lot of schools are really strict about birthday cut off dates for entering first grade which may be why he's 17 in the fall of his junior year. My nephew's birthday is a few days after the cut off so he will be 17 in the fall of his junior year too. 

[heatherchandler]

On 4/15/2017 at 9:07 AM, Clanstarling said:

One of my pet peeves on TV. We see open windows at night even when it's not essential to the plot - and when the characters (such as, oh, spies, people who are being threatened, etc.) would absolutely close everything up tight. I also rejected a few houses when house hunting because my daughters' rooms would be at the front. I'm a wee bit paranoid.

Vaughn du Clark was just a blip for me, since I've loved Steven Weber since he was on Wings in the '90s (I don't think the show aged well, but if you can find it, Tim Daly, Tony Shalhoub, and Thomas Haden Church are also in it). So for me it's "Steven!" when I see him in any new role.

The whole time I was yelling, "close your blinds!!!!"  I mean people should not be gross and look through people's windows, but come on.

He will always be Brian!!  Wings absolutely stands the test of time - I will rewatch it whenever I see it is on.  

(As a Wings aside - my husband and I have a bunch of awesome Antonio Scarpacci quotes that we toss around)

[Guest]

Yeah, I know juniors who turned 17 in the fall.  

Totally an aside but a lot of parents of boys actually prefer their boy start school a little later rather than earlier, too, because it means the boy will not likely be one of the smallest in class, which can help them in sports and to avoid getting bullied.  

[MV007]

The scene where Clay imagines what he would've said if he had stayed is everything I've been waiting for since reading the book.  For me it was a major what if and to see the possibility acted out like this was tragically bitter sweet.  Great Scene.  Both actors were devastatingly good.  

[MV007]

I feel bad for Justin and all but please just stay the hell away from Jessica.  He's not redeemable for me in that relationship.  He needs to move on and become a better person, with someone else.

[polyhymnia]

On 4/14/2017 at 8:36 PM, Paloma said:

Although I think this was a powerful series that everyone should see--especially those who are teens, relatives of teens, and those who work with teens in schools and other settings--this article makes a compelling argument for the series possibly doing more harm than good: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2017/04/14/the-problem-with-how-13-reasons-why-treats-suicide/?utm_term=.8434f34af1a7  But despite the concerns expressed in the article, I still think it is important to have a show deal realistically with the issues of bullying, sexual assault, and suicide among young people. 

This is somewhat nitpicky, but I was really bothered by the fact that Clay's mother was the attorney for the school and did not withdraw from the case even after finding out that her son was involved and (even worse) that he would be deposed and she would prepare him for testifying. How was this not an obvious conflict of interest?

My 16 year old found it to be incredibly compelling and realistic.

Clay's mom had an obvious conflict of interest and took me a little out of the story when they got to the deposition because she should have removed herself from the case as soon as she knew that Clay and Hannah were close and her firm would have needed to find a different attorney definitely after the deposition when it was made clear that Clay was involved somehow.  That bugged me.

That what happened between Bryce and Hannah = sexual assault was much clearer in the show.  I thought it was good writing to have it on the murky borderline (as far as criminal prosecution - I think it is rape in both instances but not necessarily prosecutable under every state statute) as she wasn't drunk, she never really said no, and she felt like she "let him."  It looked more like a forcible situation in the show.

[tennisgurl]

Something that I noticed in a blog about the show, that I didn't really notice the first time watching but now that its been mentioned I remember it. It was said that Mr. Porter was a counselor in a school where "kids shot at each other" so some kind of high crime, possible lower income high school, before he got the job at Liberty High. Knowing that, I kind of wonder if he took this job thinking that, compared to his last job, a school in a middle class suburb would be a piece of cake, and he could spend most of his time and energy with his family, raising his new baby, and helping middle class kids pick out their colleges or deal with being stressed out by their 15 extracurricular activities. Maybe it wasn't on purpose, but he does seem to be pretty quick to blow off signs of bullying or students being emotionally troubled, even before that disastrous meeting with Hannah. Maybe he just isn't used to the dynamics of a school based all around the popularity higharchy, social media, and gossip, and how students problems are hidden, not out there for everyone to see. Maybe he worked at a school that was some kind of Dangerous Minds style place, with regular gang violence, rampant drug abuse, and campus shootings, so now that he's dealing with kids falling apart because they're being made fun of online or are getting pushed in the halls here and there, he sees their problems as not that big of a deal. He just sees it as "kid stuff" that is just small potatoes in the grand scheme of things. Like how people react to Hannah's tapes with, basically, what the big deal? He forgot that, to a teenager, a lot of these things really do seem like a huge deal, especially lots of things built on top of each other, and to one that is more then likely dealing with depression already? It seems to be a black hole. Maybe he was still in that mindset with Hannah when she admitted to being raped. He just thought "well I have so many kids with issues I can actually fix, I cant do anything with this" like he was still in that school where kids shoot each other.

I have no idea, its just a theory. As a professional counselor, he should be able to deal with the problems of a low income school or a middle class school, but at least its some kind of explanation as to his stupid behavior here. It really is too bad that the female counselor didn't stick around. Even though she was kind of geeky in the time we saw it, she did seem to actually be good at her job, and was a good fit for Liberty. Granted, I have no idea if she would have handled Hannah, or anyone else, any better than Porter, but it is something to look at when as soon as she leaves and he joins the school, we get multiple rapes, a suicide, an attempted suicide that may or may not have been successful, multiple students contemplating suicide, a student dying in what was thought to be a drunk driving accident, and now a possible school shooting. You know, one of those things is a tragedy. Two might still be a coincidence. All of that?!?! I think the problem might be you, Liberty.

Edited April 17, 2017 by tennisgurl

[RainbowBrite]

I really can't get this show out of my head; it has really affected me both from Hannah's/Clay's perspective but also their parents'. 

One thing I keep coming back to, ruminating over, is where the change needs to begin. Teens are cavalier and insensitive; there is always room for improvement in how they treat each other. On the other hand, you need to take control and not allow what others say/do affect the way you value yourself. 

Also, what was up with the phone ringing during Hannah's meeting with Mr. Porter? Was it his wife calling him (we had seen that he was under pressure from her, failing to be home on time, etc.)? 

[Paloma]

38 minutes ago, RainbowBrite said:

Also, what was up with the phone ringing during Hannah's meeting with Mr. Porter? Was it his wife calling him (we had seen that he was under pressure from her, failing to be home on time, etc.)? 

I thought it was meant to show how busy/overloaded he was, thus not being able to give enough attention to any one student. Both his landline (school) phone and cell phone seemed to be ringing, so it probably wasn't just his wife--although it might have been if she was urgently trying to get in touch with him. But in that case I would expect that she would text him to say it was urgent, and he would excuse himself for a moment to text back or take the call (though of course if he did that, we would be criticizing him for not paying enough attention to Hannah). 

[Lyndy]

As a person well into my 40s who is not the intended demographic, I am unashamed to say I binged this whole thing over the wkd. There are so many things I think they got right here. They depicted that sense of powerlessness you feel in your teens. The hemmed in feeling from adults who mean very well but unintentionally transfer their anxiety to their teens. The cruelty of kids who are predatory, whatever the reasons. People of all ages not seeing past their own issues. Really good storytelling.

 

And as a grownup, this show more than most teen shows depicted teens who are doing very adult things but are still very much children. Some of these kids are mean little shits but lots of them are making bad decisions because they're young, emotional and deeply confused. Generally I don't have nurturing instincts but man did I feel protective of some of these kids.

 

If I were a parent, I'd be educating myself pronto on school policies regarding disclosure of abuse or depression. Mr. Porter was very well-meaning but catastrophically wrong. My parents were both teachers and in their situations, there were strict protocols in a situation like the one when Hannah discloses the sexual assault to him. He would immediately have to call her parents and speak to the principal. Very likely a social worker and a cop would be inside the building in less than an hour. Unfortunately, I think there are so many situations where the policies are so wishy-washy. I was oddly stressed by everything he did wrong in that meeting despite his intentions. When Clay says, "we all have to do better" I was practically yelling at my TV. Yes, Clay! Starting with the damn school!

[Guest]

One thing I did when my daughter entered those difficult, angsty high school years was talked face to face with her high school counselor myself about things, and got a referral to a good therapist whom my daughter wound up enjoying talking to.  I made sure she knows she can talk to her anytime she wants, though I'm always open, too.  We have a very open, accepting relationship but I know sometimes it's better to have an outsider to confide in.  

[Glory]

2 hours ago, Paloma said:

I thought it was meant to show how busy/overloaded he was, thus not being able to give enough attention to any one student. Both his landline (school) phone and cell phone seemed to be ringing, so it probably wasn't just his wife--although it might have been if she was urgently trying to get in touch with him. But in that case I would expect that she would text him to say it was urgent, and he would excuse himself for a moment to text back or take the call (though of course if he did that, we would be criticizing him for not paying enough attention to Hannah). 

He said he had a newborn when he visited Hannah's dad at the pharmacy. I honestly thought it was his wife calling to tell him she was in labor and that we missed hearing that - that maybe if he wasn't so distracted by that he would have chased after Hannah and it was just a fluke? Sad, either way. 

[jeansheridan]

On 4/9/2017 at 10:30 AM, Lady Calypso said:

This is Hannah's story, with everyone else as supporting characters. But with a second season, who will the main character be? 

I disagree about it being her story.  I think she and Clay are both protagonists.  Hannah drives the action but Clay changes. I watched 13 episodes to see Clay and how he coped.  Perhaps I am harsh but the living characters mattered to me more.

But I agree. A second season is a bad idea. There are so many great teen books.  Use this cast and do another story.

Edited April 18, 2017 by jeansheridan

[tongueincheek]

Wanted to drop in and share this article one of my favorite TV reporters penned on that decision to show the entirety of Hannah's suicide. Whether one agrees or not (no one has to), it's a very strong point to consider and a well written piece.

"...it made sense to give Hannah that final say over her body."

http://variety.com/2017/voices/columns/netflix-13-reasons-why-1202022770/