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AmandaPanda

S05.E09: The Wolf Is Waiting

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Travis' dinner with his birth mother dredges up painful memories of his childhood assault; Daphne considers helping Chris cheat on a test; Regina receives an unexpected visit.

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On 3/28/2017 at 9:44 PM, AmandaPanda said:
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Travis' dinner with his birth mother dredges up painful memories of his childhood assault; Daphne considers helping Chris cheat on a test; Regina receives an unexpected visit.

I would've loved if the season spent more time on Travis and his relationship with his family than Chris and the steroid plot. 

Ive always had a soft spot for Travis, I know this happens to deaf kids a lot, but the emotional pain of growing up in a household where your parents didn't care to learn your.  How isolating and emotionally lonely that must be for a lot of people in that situation. And Travis was 100%, he was more vulnerable because he was deaf and living in a hearing household that didn't sign. Of course I hope that uncle burns in hell but Travis was right, he needed her when he was 12. Good thing he has John, who was right, he's got to work on his anger or he will mess up his life.

 

Eric was always yummylicious, but don't let Regina go to Belize. She hasn't had a real plot since Angelo died, and I know the actress that played her mom got a lead role on Jane the Virgin but it gave her someone else to interact with besides BF of the week. 

Again why did everyone come back from China for Emmett yet he's barely been around this season. 

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I thought it was long past time the show addressed Travis's anger issues and his sexual assault, but at least when they finally did it, they hit a home run. The acting and the writing were far above anything the season has delivered so far. But sadly, the quality of the episode seems to have been overshadowed because it's the second to last one ever, in a season that has generally disappointed a lot of viewers.

Anyway, kudos to Ryan Lane, Vanessa Marano, DW Moffett, and Suanne Spoke for bringing their A-game, and to the writers and directors for doing this story and this issue justice. I never cry at this show because it's usually too over the top, but this episode broke me.

I actually didn't even mind the Daphne and Regina parts either. Daphne handled things better than I thought she would, meaning she managed to not blow up Chris's life or anyone else's. I would have been extremely annoyed if she'd pulled a typical Daphne maneuver and ended up ruining her medical career, especially after the show took care to remind us how much Bay sacrificed to make that happen.

And Regina, well, whatever. I never do have much to say about her, but I didn't want to fast forward her scenes for once. Although I definitely raised my eyebrows when Bay was all, "Look how great our relationship is now!"

Here's hoping Bay decides her next big adventure should be in Tokyo!

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The Travis storyline was heartbreaking and Ryan Lane did an awesome job with it. Even with the precious little time left this show has, I’m glad they expanded on Travis’s past and let the character have some closure there and with his mom. 

Kind of surprised with how quickly Kathryn sold Travis out. 

My favorite line of the episode was when Bay sincerely said, "Regina missed the first 16 years of my life and look at us now.” Yeah look at you, acting like distant relatives! I think last episode was the first 1-on-1 conversation Regina and Bay have had all season in fact, and it wasn’t exactly a bonding moment. Maybe they’ll actually talk in next week’s finale. 

This episode definitely didn’t feel like a series penultimate episode. Nothing was really set up for the finale, except maybe Travis having to decide to play baseball in Japan or not. Other than that, it was a pretty standard episode, and none of the characters really moved forward in anyway. 

Too bad Bay didn't check under the floor boards last week, she wouldn't have had to sell her car to pay her and Daphne's electric bill. 

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I fast forwarded through much of this episode. The Travis stuff was good and needed to be addressed.  I could have done without Regina and last year's lover and Daphne's sanctimonious dilemma. 

"Chris, do you know how hard it was for me to do this?"

Do you know how hard it was for Bay to take the fall for you and become a convicted felon? Oh, you don't because Bay told you she'd do it again because everyone should bend over backwards for Daphne. 

I rolled my eyes at Bay talking about her and Regina's relationship.  A dedicated viewer could probably count the number of scenes they've shared on a single paged spreadsheet.

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8 hours ago, Spencer Hastings said:

Do you know how hard it was for Bay to take the fall for you and become a convicted felon? Oh, you don't because Bay told you she'd do it again because everyone should bend over backwards for Daphne. 

I groaned when Bay said that last night. 

8 hours ago, Spencer Hastings said:

I rolled my eyes at Bay talking about her and Regina's relationship.  A dedicated viewer could probably count the number of scenes they've shared on a single paged spreadsheet.

This. Yeah, Bay, your relationship is super. 

I love Bay, but I hate how she continuously lets these people who have hurt her off the hook. Specifically Regina. I guess this show sees it as growth, but I just see it as sad. But hey, I guess it's not my place to dictate how Bay should feel about her relationship with Regina. To me, Regina is still dismissive of Bay and if it came down to a choice, she'd most likely choose Daphne over Bay.

For me, it wasn't the relationship I envisioned for Bay and Regina back in the beginning. Bay always seemed to want more and she kept getting disappointed. But if she feels satisfied, then so be it. I just want Bay to be happy, but even when she appears happy, it still seems like she's getting the shorter end of the stick.

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23 minutes ago, JaggedLilPill said:

I groaned when Bay said that last night. 

This. Yeah, Bay, your relationship is super. 

I love Bay, but I hate how she continuously lets these people who have hurt her off the hook. Specifically Regina. I guess this show sees it as growth, but I just see it as sad. But hey, I guess it's not my place to dictate how Bay should feel about her relationship with Regina. To me, Regina is still dismissive of Bay and if it came down to a choice, she'd most likely choose Daphne over Bay.

For me, it wasn't the relationship I envisioned for Bay and Regina back in the beginning. Bay always seemed to want more and she kept getting disappointed. But if she feels satisfied, then so be it. I just want Bay to be happy, but even when she appears happy, it still seems like she's getting the shorter end of the stick.

I don't disagree that Regina would choose Daphne over Bay, but I think it's probably healthier in the long run for Bay to make peace and find acceptance/comfort in the relationship she and Regina have than longing for something Regina isn't capable/willing to give her. 

I believe Regina does care about Bay, but she made peace with not being her MOM years ago. It may be similar to someone that has placed a child for adoption and reconnects with them as an adult. They may love and grow close to the child they placed but it's not going to be the same type of love they had for the children they raised day to day. 

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2 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I don't disagree that Regina would choose Daphne over Bay, but I think it's probably healthier in the long run for Bay to make peace and find acceptance/comfort in the relationship she and Regina have than longing for something Regina isn't capable/willing to give her. 

I believe Regina does care about Bay, but she made peace with not being her MOM years ago. It may be similar to someone that has placed a child for adoption and reconnects with them as an adult. They may love and grow close to the child they placed but it's not going to be the same type of love they had for the children they raised day to day. 

I agree it's probably healthier for Bay. I don't want her constantly pining for Regina's approval, who IMO doesn't deserve it.

I'm sure Regina cares in her own way. However, there's just this huge juxtaposition, and there has been from day one, between John and Kathryn and their eagerness to get to know Daphne and be involved vs Regina and Bay. 

I think for me it's also I don't feel connected to Regina at all, and never have, but I have always felt connected to Bay. So for me, it's always going to come off as a distant relationship and like Bay essentially got shafted when she deserved better from her biological mom. 

But I feel that way about most of Bay's storylines LOL.

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7 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I believe Regina does care about Bay, but she made peace with not being her MOM years ago.

Therein lies the rub. Regina, being the only one who knew about the switch early on, has had the opportunity to make her peace. I really wish they had explored this more with regards to Bay. John and Katherine jumped whole-heartedly into Daphne but Bay has always been kept at arms length. I wish they would have addressed that because it has always felt that Bay will settle for crumbs. 

15 minutes ago, JaggedLilPill said:

I think for me it's also I don't feel connected to Regina at all, and never have, but I have always felt connected to Bay.

I can agree with you on that. Regina has always been such an odd character to me. I could never figure out what the show viewed her as.  Her leaving to follow her "boyfriend" would be the final straw. I can't believe she'd even consider abandoning her family for this guy. 

The Travis material was so well done. Ryan Lane really hit it out of the park.  

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I was really ticked at Katherine throwing Travis under the bus.  And John caving kind of quickly.  Maybe Travis ultimately comes out ahead if he can get a pro career going.  I don't know about Bay going along -- tattoos are relatively stigmatized in Japan.   She can stay and get herself established in KC, the baseball season is half the year, and possibly he'll get picked up by a US team eventually.  But maybe they're not forever anyway.  Emmett still needs to be wrapped up in some way, I would think. 

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Oooh, I forgot about the tattoo stigma. Actually, the more I think about it, the more I'm wondering whether Travis will ultimately decide not to go to Japan. I recall that at the beginning of his arc with Melody, she suggested he could become a teacher. She's been so intent on him getting a college degree and not letting his future hinge on baseball alone that I can only imagine she'll have something to say about this. Plus, now that he's reconnected with his mother, it seems a bad time to go off to yet another foreign country for who knows how long.

I really liked Bay's role in the "I believe you" scene. I think the show has been very careful to never have Bay herself call what Tank did "rape" while letting other characters voice all the different possible perspectives. But because of the circumstances surrounding that night and the fallout from it, not to mention all the discussion among viewers about whether it was really rape or not, it felt right to have Bay be the one to show Travis's mother what he needed: for her to accept the truth of his experience. When survivors of sexual assault speak out, it's so important for that to be handled with compassion and trust on all sides. I thought that issue was deftly handled in the writing and acting.

Side note: Characters on this show are no longer knocking on closed doors apparently. I noticed Bay walked right into Travis's dorm room at one point, and at the end of the episode Travis walked right into the Kennish house! Maybe they all texted beforehand or something, but still funny.

Edited by Jintian
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18 hours ago, JaggedLilPill said:

I agree it's probably healthier for Bay. I don't want her constantly pining for Regina's approval, who IMO doesn't deserve it.

I'm sure Regina cares in her own way. However, there's just this huge juxtaposition, and there has been from day one, between John and Kathryn and their eagerness to get to know Daphne and be involved vs Regina and Bay. 

So much this. The difference between John and Kathryn’s relationship with Daphne and Regina’s with Bay has always been glaring and heartbreaking to me. 

Of course Bay had a lot growing up, including two loving parents, but she was the one who felt out of place and like something was missing in her life and thus set this whole switch thing in motion. She probably thought once she found that missing piece in Regina that she would start to feel whole, like she belonged, but she never really got that connection she was longing for with Regina. 

On the other hand, Daphne, who always seemed perfectly content with the way things were before the switch and never gave off the impression that she felt she was missing anything, seamlessly added two loving parents and an older brother to her life, who accepted her immediately and loved her like she had always been a part of the family. She didn't have to work for their love or ever feel rejected by them. There was an instant connection between John/Kathryn and Daphne and they fought hard for more time with her and more say in her life because she’s their daughter and they wanted to be her parents. They made no distinction between the kids they raised and Daphne. From the second they found out about the switch, Daphne was as much theirs as Toby and Bay were.  

And then there's Regina, who spent the first couple of years after the switch was exposed worrying about losing Daphne to the Kennishes instead of trying to form a connection with Bay, who was there basically begging for her attention and approval. I never got the sense that Regina felt the same way about Bay as she does about Daphne. Regina may now refer to them both as her daughters but there’s a noticeable difference in how she treats them, and for Bay, who sees how easily her parents have embraced Daphne, that must hurt. Still, Bay lights up whenever she shares a positive moment with her biological mother, but eventually Regina’s indifference and thoughtlessness regarding Bay will rear it’s head again and Bay’s left feeling sad and rejected. I mean how many outbursts has Bay had where she has to cry and remind Regina that she’s her daughter too before Regina gets it?  Bay reminds me of a little puppy begging for Regina’s love and approval, and despite getting neglected and repeatedly kicked away, she keeps going back for more because she so desperately wants to be accepted as Regina’s daughter. 

It probably is best that Bay accept that her relationship with Regina is never going to parallel Daphne’s relationship with John and Kathryn, but still, it's upsetting because Bay deserves more, she deserves to be loved the same way Daphne is.

(Sorry for the essay, I obviously have a lot of feelings about this particular topic lol) 

Edited by Everleigh
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My heart went out to his mother who really was trying to sign her regrets to him, because that's all Travis ever wanted. I bet this show didn't expect him to be such a central character, having replaced Emmett albeit entirely. I honestly didn't think they'd go the baseball route but I always thought Travis would do well as a teacher - being a role model/advocate to other deaf kids who were bullied and felt they had no voice at home. I had read the creator wanted to expound on Emmett's depression but then the show got cancelled and after his massive character assassination, I don't think fans would care much by then.

If anyone deserves a happy ending though, it'd be Travis.

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15 hours ago, Eri said:

My heart went out to his mother who really was trying to sign her regrets to him, because that's all Travis ever wanted. I bet this show didn't expect him to be such a central character, having replaced Emmett albeit entirely. I honestly didn't think they'd go the baseball route but I always thought Travis would do well as a teacher - being a role model/advocate to other deaf kids who were bullied and felt they had no voice at home. I had read the creator wanted to expound on Emmett's depression but then the show got cancelled and after his massive character assassination, I don't think fans would care much by then.

If anyone deserves a happy ending though, it'd be Travis.

I think Travis would be a great teacher. I do wonder why it took so many years for Travis' mom to even ATTEMPT to learn to sign. Perhaps it was him moving in with Melody and leaving home that she realized she was not going to have him in her life at all if she didn't make the effort. I remember when he was sleeping in Johns car wash office- I have liked the Travis, John relationship. 

On 4/5/2017 at 7:10 PM, Everleigh said:

So much this. The difference between John and Kathryn’s relationship with Daphne and Regina’s with Bay has always been glaring and heartbreaking to me. 

Of course Bay had a lot growing up, including two loving parents, but she was the one who felt out of place and like something was missing in her life and thus set this whole switch thing in motion. She probably thought once she found that missing piece in Regina that she would start to feel whole, like she belonged, but she never really got that connection she was longing for with Regina. 

On the other hand, Daphne, who always seemed perfectly content with the way things were before the switch and never gave off the impression that she felt she was missing anything, seamlessly added two loving parents and an older brother to her life, who accepted her immediately and loved her like she had always been a part of the family. She didn't have to work for their love or ever feel rejected by them. There was an instant connection between John/Kathryn and Daphne and they fought hard for more time with her and more say in her life because she’s their daughter and they wanted to be her parents. They made no distinction between the kids they raised and Daphne. From the second they found out about the switch, Daphne was as much theirs as Toby and Bay were.  

And then there's Regina, who spent the first couple of years after the switch was exposed worrying about losing Daphne to the Kennishes instead of trying to form a connection with Bay, who was there basically begging for her attention and approval. I never got the sense that Regina felt the same way about Bay as she does about Daphne. Regina may now refer to them both as her daughters but there’s a noticeable difference in how she treats them, and for Bay, who sees how easily her parents have embraced Daphne, that must hurt. Still, Bay lights up whenever she shares a positive moment with her biological mother, but eventually Regina’s indifference and thoughtlessness regarding Bay will rear it’s head again and Bay’s left feeling sad and rejected. I mean how many outbursts has Bay had where she has to cry and remind Regina that she’s her daughter too before Regina gets it?  Bay reminds me of a little puppy begging for Regina’s love and approval, and despite getting neglected and repeatedly kicked away, she keeps going back for more because she so desperately wants to be accepted as Regina’s daughter. 

It probably is best that Bay accept that her relationship with Regina is never going to parallel Daphne’s relationship with John and Kathryn, but still, it's upsetting because Bay deserves more, she deserves to be loved the same way Daphne is.

(Sorry for the essay, I obviously have a lot of feelings about this particular topic lol) 

It's ok! I like your essays. 

I do think a part of Bay feeling like something was missing etc may just be a part of having an artistic personality. Always searching for self expression etc. 

I remeber in the very first episode of the series, Regina's mom was talking to her about wanting to get to know Bay, and Regina said "She has a Dad, a brother, I have nothing to offer her." I remeber in the first couple of seasons Bay being jealous of Daphne for kind of interloping into their household while Daphne never had to share Regina with Bay in the same way. Regina was also insecure about Daphne's relationship with the Kennishes and taught to hold onto her only child like a bulldog. My mom and I watched this show together a lot, and I asked her what would she do if she found out I was switched at birth, she said probably nothing, even though she'd be curious of what the other woman looked like, she would not want someone else claiming to be my Mom, so she would leave well enough alone  I thought that was interesting  

If the writers wanted they could've explored that more but they got lazy and decided to focus on Regina's boyfriends because Constance Marie is so beautiful. Ugh. 

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What really bothered me was the fact that yes Travis did hit that kid at the party but why John and Kathryn never told daddy who is a sponsor about his son's comments towards mental disabled and hearing impaired people.  So that snotty nose kid not only insulted Travis but J&K's grandson.  Doesn't that mean anything?

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14 hours ago, Everleigh said:

It probably is best that Bay accept that her relationship with Regina is never going to parallel Daphne’s relationship with John and Kathryn, but still, it's upsetting because Bay deserves more, she deserves to be loved the same way Daphne is.

(Sorry for the essay, I obviously have a lot of feelings about this particular topic lol) 

The essay is great! I like this forum because of stuff like that. I know Bay has her haters in the audience, but I don't know how anyone can watch this show and not see that she's that puppy dog type who just wants to be loved. I think she's a clear example of a character who, because she has always felt at odds and different and unwanted, has quite a damaged sense of self-worth. This is why she always goes too far in giving to other people, in my reading of her.

Despite growing up in privileged circumstances, Bay's discovery about the switch threw her whole world out of whack and then Regina didn't even really "want" her (from the moment Regina first found out about the switch to the day they met to the present day). Bay learns that this golden child Daphne is the one who should have had her life, and in fact all 3 parents fall all over themselves getting/staying close to Daphne. So over the course of the show, Bay keeps repeating this pattern of doing everything she possibly can to help people, or to share what she has (money, shelter, time, taking the fall, loyalty -- she's the "ride or die" chick as this week's recap said), all so that SOMEONE will want her the most and be loyal to her the most.

I re-watched the first episode recently and it's all there: Bay tells Toby she always felt different. The first time Regina and Daphne come over for lunch, Regina barely speaks to Bay and then leaves without telling her goodbye. Meanwhile J&K encourage Daphne to bond with Toby. Scarlett45 already mentioned how Regina rejected a suggestion from her mother of inviting Bay over to get to know her. Bay has to sit outside Regina's house in her car just to see her. Meanwhile J&K arrange for Daphne to tour Bay's school in hopes of enrolling her, without even running it by Bay.

Then when Bay gets arrested for using a fake ID, Regina and Kathryn fight in the station about how Regina's bad parenting = Daphne going deaf, and Regina says, "We're in the police station because of the daughter you two raised." Right in front of Bay! Immediately after that, K declares they're going to sue to get Daphne back. Daphne is wanted, Bay is not.

So what does Bay do? She asks her parents to let Regina and Daphne stay in the guest house. 

I mean, it makes sense that Bay would want to keep them close so she can get to know them. That's not remarkable in itself. But I go back to the "optics" of the situation, like how I was annoyed with Bay having to beg her parents for help with the bills in last week's episode. The Regina/Bay dynamic just looks horrible if you're a fan of Bay, and the show has never really deviated from this pattern with her. And I can't even get into how it's also played out in her dating relationships or I'll write an even longer essay than this.

Seriously, one more episode and she's free! Fly to Japan, Bay! Fly!

Edited by Jintian
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2 hours ago, greekmom said:

What really bothered me was the fact that yes Travis did hit that kid at the party but why John and Kathryn never told daddy who is a sponsor about his son's comments towards mental disabled and hearing impaired people.  So that snotty nose kid not only insulted Travis but J&K's grandson.  Doesn't that mean anything?

I would say not really. The guy was an ass but you cannot go around assualting people because they make ignorant prejudice hateful comments. (I don't think Travis considers himself hearing impaired FYI)

I did that every time in my life I heard someone say "retarded" as an insult I'd spend my life in jail for assault. (I have a severally mentally disabled sister, mental aged 18months-2yrs). He punched the guy in front of witnesses and caused him injury. I love Travis to death but he's not a kid any more, he's got to work on his anger or he will keep suffering the consequences like John said. Now if the guy had attacked him first it would be a different story, but if I recall he wasn't putting his hands on anyone. 

Edited by Scarlett45
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7 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

It's ok! I like your essays. 

I do think a part of Bay feeling like something was missing etc may just be a part of having an artistic personality. Always searching for self expression etc. 

I remeber in the very first episode of the series, Regina's mom was talking to her about wanting to get to know Bay, and Regina said "She has a Dad, a brother, I have nothing to offer her." I remeber in the first couple of seasons Bay being jealous of Daphne for kind of interloping into their household while Daphne never had to share Regina with Bay in the same way. Regina was also insecure about Daphne's relationship with the Kennishes and taught to hold onto her only child like a bulldog. My mom and I watched this show together a lot, and I asked her what would she do if she found out I was switched at birth, she said probably nothing, even though she'd be curious of what the other woman looked like, she would not want someone else claiming to be my Mom, so she would leave well enough alone  I thought that was interesting  

If the writers wanted they could've explored that more but they got lazy and decided to focus on Regina's boyfriends because Constance Marie is so beautiful. Ugh. 

So many good comments here. I completely agree! The whole Regina/Bay relationship definitely wasn't explored enough. I feel like the show wants us to think that Bay and Regina have this great relationship but it hasn't show anything to support that. What I always thought was interesting was that even when Bay expressed annoyance that Daphne interloped into her life J&K would hear her out but made it clear that they're still going to try to have a relationship with Daphne regardless. Regina on the other hand  made it clear that it was Daphne first. If Daphne even hinted that she was upset that Bay was talking etc. to Regina, Regina shut Bay down real fast. Even Angelo seems more like Daphne's dad than Bay's. But I think overall this had made Bay a better person/character. She was a little entitled and annoying in the beginning and now I love her. I think the way she helped Travis was amazing. I hope they stay together. This was sort of a strange penultimate episode but a really good one. I wish more of the season/series had had episodes like this one.

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7 hours ago, greekmom said:

What really bothered me was the fact that yes Travis did hit that kid at the party but why John and Kathryn never told daddy who is a sponsor about his son's comments towards mental disabled and hearing impaired people.  So that snotty nose kid not only insulted Travis but J&K's grandson.  Doesn't that mean anything?

To an ambulance chasing lawyer whose precious son was hurt, I am thinking it doesn't matter.  But isn't this the t-shirt selling kid?  If so, I wonder if his mom knew why he was punched vs the dad if the outcome would be different because didn't she make him shut down his t-shirt selling? 

Plus as Scarlett45 pointed out you cannot just go around hitting every idiot you run into if you could then so many of us would be walking around with black eyes and broken jaws.  Which brings me to the fact that if I were the university, I'd want to see proof that this kid was really hurt not just his ego.

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20 hours ago, Everleigh said:

So much this. The difference between John and Kathryn’s relationship with Daphne and Regina’s with Bay has always been glaring and heartbreaking to me. 

Of course Bay had a lot growing up, including two loving parents, but she was the one who felt out of place and like something was missing in her life and thus set this whole switch thing in motion. She probably thought once she found that missing piece in Regina that she would start to feel whole, like she belonged, but she never really got that connection she was longing for with Regina. 

On the other hand, Daphne, who always seemed perfectly content with the way things were before the switch and never gave off the impression that she felt she was missing anything, seamlessly added two loving parents and an older brother to her life, who accepted her immediately and loved her like she had always been a part of the family. She didn't have to work for their love or ever feel rejected by them. There was an instant connection between John/Kathryn and Daphne and they fought hard for more time with her and more say in her life because she’s their daughter and they wanted to be her parents. They made no distinction between the kids they raised and Daphne. From the second they found out about the switch, Daphne was as much theirs as Toby and Bay were.  

And then there's Regina, who spent the first couple of years after the switch was exposed worrying about losing Daphne to the Kennishes instead of trying to form a connection with Bay, who was there basically begging for her attention and approval. I never got the sense that Regina felt the same way about Bay as she does about Daphne. Regina may now refer to them both as her daughters but there’s a noticeable difference in how she treats them, and for Bay, who sees how easily her parents have embraced Daphne, that must hurt. Still, Bay lights up whenever she shares a positive moment with her biological mother, but eventually Regina’s indifference and thoughtlessness regarding Bay will rear it’s head again and Bay’s left feeling sad and rejected. I mean how many outbursts has Bay had where she has to cry and remind Regina that she’s her daughter too before Regina gets it?  Bay reminds me of a little puppy begging for Regina’s love and approval, and despite getting neglected and repeatedly kicked away, she keeps going back for more because she so desperately wants to be accepted as Regina’s daughter. 

It probably is best that Bay accept that her relationship with Regina is never going to parallel Daphne’s relationship with John and Kathryn, but still, it's upsetting because Bay deserves more, she deserves to be loved the same way Daphne is.

(Sorry for the essay, I obviously have a lot of feelings about this particular topic lol) 

Don't ever apologize! I think you're my spirit animal hehehe.

I've been #TeamBay from the beginning, so I love discussions like this. 

6 hours ago, Jintian said:

The essay is great! I like this forum because of stuff like that. I know Bay has her haters in the audience, but I don't know how anyone can watch this show and not see that she's that puppy dog type who just wants to be loved. I think she's a clear example of a character who, because she has always felt at odds and different and unwanted, has quite a damaged sense of self-worth. This is why she always goes too far in giving to other people, in my reading of her.

100% agree.

My other groan worthy moment aside from the Regina comment was Bay telling Daphne she'd help her out in a heartbeat again while they were discussing the Chris situation.

On the one hand, it's great that Bay has such a big heart. I think it was Sarah who said it in this episode's recap that Bay pretty much encompasses the definition of a ride or die chick. Bay's not the type to just write people off. I think she really tries to see the good in people, which usually ends up being her detriment. But on the other hand, I want Bay to be cautious with who she helps and how much.

The season three finale for me will always be where this show went downhill and that hinged on what Bay did for Daphne. Their sisterhood will forever feel unearned and tainted in my eyes due to Bay's huge sacrifice.

8 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

If the writers wanted they could've explored that more but they got lazy and decided to focus on Regina's boyfriends because Constance Marie is so beautiful. Ugh. 

Ugh indeed.

The switch itself as a story still had more to explore. 

I always wonder why aside from Angelo's jerk of a cousin and Kathryn's mom the show declined to introduce the girls to other relatives or go into more background history.

I don't know. I guess if I found out I was switched at birth, I'd definitely want to know more about my newfound ancestry. I think Regina mentioned her father one time and that was it. It could have nice for Regina and Bay to have scenes like that where they discussed grandparents/great grandparents, cousins and such. 

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7 hours ago, Jintian said:

The essay is great! I like this forum because of stuff like that. I know Bay has her haters in the audience, but I don't know how anyone can watch this show and not see that she's that puppy dog type who just wants to be loved. I think she's a clear example of a character who, because she has always felt at odds and different and unwanted, has quite a damaged sense of self-worth. This is why she always goes too far in giving to other people, in my reading of her.

Despite growing up in privileged circumstances, Bay's discovery about the switch threw her whole world out of whack and then Regina didn't even really "want" her (from the moment Regina first found out about the switch to the day they met to the present day). Bay learns that this golden child Daphne is the one who should have had her life, and in fact all 3 parents fall all over themselves getting/staying close to Daphne. So over the course of the show, Bay keeps repeating this pattern of doing everything she possibly can to help people, or to share what she has (money, shelter, time, taking the fall, loyalty -- she's the "ride or die" chick as this week's recap said), all so that SOMEONE will want her the most and be loyal to her the most.

Oh yeah, Bay’s definitely a people pleaser—at times to her own detriment. 

There’s a scene in season 2 where Bay and Daphne are fighting in the Kennish kitchen and Bay’s ranting about Daphne stealing her boyfriend and about the fallout from the Carlton takeover, and Daphne shuts her down and accuses Bay of always playing the victim, and Bay says she didn’t use to feel like that before Daphne showed up. Bay’s self-worth definitely took a major hit when Regina and Daphne came into her life. I think in the long run, it changed her for the better because it turned her into a more thoughtful and compassionate person, whereas before she had a tendency to be pretty self-absorbed, but it’s interesting that Bay's growth kind of came from being broken down and feeling rejected. Daphne, on the other hand, didn't grow at all from learning about the switch in my opinion. If anything, I think she went backwards. 

I have so much more to say about the Bay and Regina relationship but I don't want to take over the thread. Maybe I'll head over to the character's thread later. 

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6 minutes ago, JaggedLilPill said:

Don't ever apologize! I think you're my spirit animal hehehe.

I've been #TeamBay from the beginning, so I love discussions like this. 

100% agree.

My other groan worthy moment aside from the Regina comment was Bay telling Daphne she'd help her out in a heartbeat again while they were discussing the Chris situation.

On the one hand, it's great that Bay has such a big heart. I think it was Sarah who said it in this episode's recap that Bay pretty much encompasses the definition of a ride or die chick. Bay's not the type to just write people off. I think she really tries to see the good in people, which usually ends up being her detriment. But on the other hand, I want Bay to be cautious with who she helps and how much.

 

Oh yeah I rolled my eyes so hard when Bay said that to Daphne. I just want to shake Bay and try to get it through her head that her life matters just as much as Daphne's. She hasn't exactly had it easy since taking the fall for Daphne, in fact her life kind of imploded afterwards, but for whatever reason she still thinks Daphne getting to be a doctor after making numerous mistakes to jeopardize that, is somehow more important than her own future and happiness. Unless Bay has a crystal ball somewhere that has revealed that Daphne will eventually go on to cure cancer as a doctor, then she needs to stop prioritizing Daphne's life over her own. And it'd be nice if her parents let her know that she matters too, instead of being all too willing to let Bay throw her life away for Daphne and then punishing Bay for trying to make the most of her life as a tattoo artist instead of going to college like Daphne, when Bay's college and career prospects are seriously limited as a result of what she did for Daphne. 

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8 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I would say not really. The guy was an ass but you cannot go around assualting people because they make ignorant prejudice hateful comments. (I don't think Travis considers himself hearing impaired FYI)

I did that every time in my life I heard someone say "retarded" as an insult I'd spend my life in jail for assault. (I have a severally mentally disabled sister, mental aged 18months-2yrs). He punched the guy in front of witnesses and caused him injury. I love Travis to death but he's not a kid any more, he's got to work on his anger or he will keep suffering the consequences like John said. Now if the guy had attacked him first it would be a different story, but if I recall he wasn't putting his hands on anyone. 

 

10 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I think Travis would be a great teacher. I do wonder why it took so many years for Travis' mom to even ATTEMPT to learn to sign. Perhaps it was him moving in with Melody and leaving home that she realized she was not going to have him in her life at all if she didn't make the effort. I remember when he was sleeping in Johns car wash office- I have liked the Travis, John relationship. 

I agree with you - Travis's anger issues has always been his major flaw even when he has good intentions. It was discussed back in Season 2 but I had learned in a sign language course how over 90% of hearing parents either never learn to sign for their kids or prefer to go the cochlear route. (i.e. the Kennishes' easy fix solution when Daphne entered their lives). It's a disheartening reality for a lot of kids like Travis to feel so isolated in their own home with parents like that. It's no wonder his co-dependency is so strong and it shows/showed in his relationships with Mary Beth and Bay.

I recall he had a younger brother but I guess the writers decided to axe him from the show or forgot - I was hoping he'd have been there to reconnect with Travis also. His interactions with all the hearing people in his life tells me he's as not as Deaf  and more accepting then he used to be ;) You're absolutely right though - with Melody being a mother figure to him and John's guidance (one of the best relationships on the show imo), he really doesn't need her in his life so he's doing her a favor, making her attempts all the more sincere.

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I've long thought this but I don't think it's remotely disputable at this point: Ryan Lane is clearly the best actor of the junior cast, to the point I worry that he won't get the work he deserves from here on.

Show-wise, I'm concerned that they try to end with Bay and Emmett together, though...

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Last year, I was ready for the show to end, but this run of episodes has changed my mind. I wish it would continue. There's more story and they seem to have started trying to do a better job of it and no longer be just phoning it in. I know it's done, but I've been feeling more sadness about it than I expected. I thought I'd just be feeling relieved.

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1 hour ago, possibilities said:

Last year, I was ready for the show to end, but this run of episodes has changed my mind. I wish it would continue. There's more story and they seem to have started trying to do a better job of it and no longer be just phoning it in. I know it's done, but I've been feeling more sadness about it than I expected. I thought I'd just be feeling relieved.

I know the feeling. I was actually just talking about this with some other friends who watch.

I am still relieved that it's ending because my love of the show has been waning for a long time and I was very frustrated with a good chunk of the storytelling decisions, but there's more sadness than I expected. It kind of snuck up on me a little. I think it's partially due to the hopes I had for this show way back when, but also, yes, I will miss some of the characters. 

It pangs me a bit, and I wasn't expecting it to.

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Honestly, where the hell has this show been hiding? This was actually a really good episode, mainly because the Travis storyline was really heartbreaking and well done. I wondered if they would ever bring that back, and I'm glad they did it like this, even if they should have done an episode like this awhile ago. I felt awful for him, what a horrible thing to have to live with. I can really see why Travis has such severe anger issues. He felt miserable and isolated and helpless for so long, it makes sense he would have a short fuse now that he's older. I really like Travis and Bay together, and this was a great episode for them. For a long time, I felt like Travis was kind of a replacement boyfriend for Emmett for her, but now I can really see their connection. I thought Vanessa's expressions were so intense during the dinner and during the confession scene, it made for great stuff. She looked like she was going to be physically ill all dinner. And Ryan was really the standout. I generally think the actors here are quite good, but he is the standout of the younger actors. The rest was alright, but I hope asshole kid gets a pie in the face by the end of the show. Regina and her boyfriend drama is boring as usual. Same old same old.

I've never really understood Regina, and how she has been written. Its been hard for her to come back from finding out she knew about the switch, and even after that revelation, she just seems to have a never ending stream of non memorable but attractive boyfriends, without any real development or attachment to the rest of the family, besides Daphne. I think that's one of the reasons her relationship with Bay has really suffered, because so much of Regina's screen time has gone to her dating life. Bays comments here and elsewhere makes me feel like the writers aren't trying to show that Regina doesn't care much about Bay, they just don't realize how little screen time they have had. Meanwhile, John and Katherine have been solid for the majority of the show, so they can actually have plots about bonding with their kids. That all being said as others have already pointed out, Regina has always kept Bay at a distance, while the Keenneshes were eager to embrace Daphne as one of their own. I think its because Regina only had Daphne for so long, she feels like she has to hold onto her, and that makes her unwilling or unable to open up to Bay, no matter how much Bay wants to connect with her. Its so obvious to the audience, but no one in the show ever seems to notice the difference in how Katherine and John treat Daphne, and how Regina treats Bay. At least now she has Travis, who actually loves and appreciates her. And now that he's working through his anger, maybe things will be smooth sailing. I mean, Travis and John have a MUCH stronger parent/child relationship then Daphne and Bay do, and Daphne and Bay are biologically mother and daughter!

This episode also makes me sad, because there is still so much untapped potential in this show, that they ignored in favor of melodrama and generic dating drama. Even the racism on campus storyline, which turned out to be really well done, came WAY too late into the shows run. There is so much to explore with the switch that I never felt like they did. Like, Bay and Daphne finding out that they had whole families and histories they never knew about. Or how they found out they were actually different ethnicities then they thought they were, which they kind of dealt with, but not really. And, after we found out that Regina knew what happened, how does Bay feel that her bio mom basically rejected her and picked Daphne over her, and continued doing that over and over? There is still so much to talk about, its crazy that there is only one episode left.

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Regina is terrible to Bay but not particularly great with Daphne either, at least not in the last few seasons. John and Kathryn, though they may favor Daphne, treat both girls as daughters. Regina treats Daphne like a favorite niece and Bay like some girl she knows a little bit.

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On 4/7/2017 at 2:00 AM, Bix said:

Show-wise, I'm concerned that they try to end with Bay and Emmett together, though...

I'm totally unspoiled, so this is just conjecture. I can't imagine how they could realistically do a 180 in the series finale where Bay goes from being in love with Travis and in a healthy, mutually supportive relationship with him to ending up with an asshole who mistreated her and with whom she's barely interacts these days.

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5 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

I'm totally unspoiled, so this is just conjecture. I can't imagine how they could realistically do a 180 in the series finale where Bay goes from being in love with Travis and in a healthy, mutually supportive relationship with him to ending up with an asshole who mistreated her and with whom she's barely interacts these days.

I'm not spoiled either (are there spoilers for this show?) but I could see Bay deciding to "set Travis free" so he could go to Japan and live out his dream of pitching professionally. That would of course leave Bay home in Kanas City and free to date her ex, who was awful to her, but Bay is Bay and has pretty low standards for how people treat her so Emmett's past behavior will probably just be excused because he's depressed now and that's more important than any of Bay's silly feelings.  

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1 hour ago, Everleigh said:

I'm not spoiled either (are there spoilers for this show?) but I could see Bay deciding to "set Travis free" so he could go to Japan and live out his dream of pitching professionally. That would of course leave Bay home in Kanas City and free to date her ex, who was awful to her, but Bay is Bay and has pretty low standards for how people treat her so Emmett's past behavior will probably just be excused because he's depressed now and that's more important than any of Bay's silly feelings.  

They could also do a time jump. She lets Travis go to Japan and then we jump to two years later at the very end and  see she's now with Emmett and has a gallery showing, Daphne's in medical school, etc.

But it is a pretty big leap from where we are now.

Edited by KaveDweller

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On the one hand, Travis should take the baseball job. He can become a teacher later; careers in sports don't last a lifetime. And he seemed to be thriving and happy in China, so we know he likes to travel.

On the other, the language barrier will be intense. He would be very lonely if Bay doesn't go with him. And if she does go with him, what will she do besides be a sidekick? He could make enough money to support her and she could paint, I guess. But neither of them is ready for that level of commitment, and she likes doing tattoos and building her reputation and thus clientele. The show has done early marriages before, with Toby, so it's not out of the question, but it's very out of character for the network, generally.

Although, if he goes, they could Skype every day, and the baseball season isn't all year long, is it?

Since it's TV, and they're very young, it's probably a set up for them to break up. Or for Travis to give up his dream and choose to stay around for love and family. This show could go either way and I wouldn't be surprised.

If they get Bay back with Emmett, though, I'll be very angry. It's totally unearned and they don't have time to convince me it would be anything but a complete sacrifice of Bay's character. No. She's already been used to prop up Daphne and they shouldn't do this to her too. They blew it, they can't just do a reset because they regret what they did.

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Someone in the episode mentioned that the baseball season only lasts 6 months a year so it's doable; she was willing to wait for Ty when he doing a second tour (before he lied) going as far as looking up schools in Europe to go to so they'd be closer. I don't see why she couldn't do the same for Travis. If anything they'd both be able to work on their careers more and it'd give her a chance to travel and visit him as well. I did wonder about the language barrier also - I suppose if he's going pro he could afford a full-time interpreter anyway. Unfortunately, given how close he's gotten to Bay recently, I don't think he'd be willing to let her go unless she pulls a "Mary Beth" and tells him to explore and gain more experiences.

The dramatic Emmett/Bay scene in the rain during the final episode promo gave mesuch an eye roll. Let them get the closure they insist on bringing up constantly and be done with it already.

Edited by Eri
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I always thought Regina's.distance was partly due.to her fear and insecurity that.she had nothing to offer Bay while she could lose Daphne.to a wealthier couple who could give her.more advantages.Hence she holds on tight to Daphne while keeping a.distance from Bay. Even Regina's mum never seemed keen to get.to know Bay while K's mum was all over Daphne.

For what its worth, Toby never seemed.to be a real brother to Daphne. They seemed.more.like friends

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