S05.E13: Steven and Justin's Story, Part 1

[scoopski potata]

8 minutes ago, todd said:

Thanks to Stephen, I can never look at Pepperoni Pizza the same......Hes RUINED it for me.

Ugh and I kinda wanted pizza this weekend too :/ 

I honestly just had to go on a run because of this dude. I just felt the need to be healthy and productive. I'm so torn between my mental healthcare provider side who just wants to dive in and help this man and the oath I took that still remains a part of me and the woman who left that job and honestly knows that sometimes people just can't be helped. But that, unfortunately, doesn't always stop us from trying. 

[todd]

1 hour ago, mellowjoi said:

Prior to retiring my sister was a nursing home administrator in Texas.  She said they had a few very large patients who were sent there by the hospital because they could not return home but didn't require hospital care.  She stated they could only manage a limited number because of the number of staff required to assist larger residents.  She stated although many could not leave their rooms and were on low calorie diets they routinely manipulated older residents into bringing them left over food.  She said it was a real strain on the staff.  Special beds and harnesses were required for lifting for bathing and turning.  They only had a few and could not accept a new resident without such special equipment designed for larger people.  

She said what she saw over the years were more and more larger individuals at younger ages being admitted with nothing else wrong with them other than their size.  Often times she said family members who were caretakers just couldn't perform the task any longer from mental fatigue to physical problems from not having the skill to deal with the weight of the individual.  She also stated that those same family members would often bring dozens of donuts, pizza, and other foods to the person knowing they were in a nursing home because of their weight.  She said they seemed to believe bringing such foods equaled love and would comment as the person was losing weight they were just wasting away.  When I asked her who paid their bills she said the cost was paid by the state.  I asked her how long could they live like that and she stated with the right care a long time.  

I believe Steven will eventually become if not already a ward of the state living in a nursing home.  She also said it's not that easy to just put them out because of their size.  She said it's not like their families can just load them up and drive away and most families refuse to take them once they have been admitted to a nursing home. 

Steven will be running the nursing home when he goes in. His ability to manipulate knows no bounds.

[HahYallDoin]

6 hours ago, Cherrio said:

If he went by ambulance then they by regulation as far as I know have to take him to the closest hospital

In Alabama and many other states, the patient can choose the hospital as long as they are not in a critical situation. If Texas is the same way, Simply (Drug)Seeking Steven could order up a hospital just like he orders up a pizza LOL

[TurtlePower]

1 minute ago, todd said:

Steven will be running the nursing home when he goes in. His ability to manipulate knows no bounds.

Depends on the care providers. Those of us who have been around for a while and who have dealt with a few "Stevens" can see them coming a mile away. Dr. Now did, and he nailed it. 

[todd]

8 minutes ago, TurtlePower said:

Depends on the care providers. Those of us who have been around for a while and who have dealt with a few "Stevens" can see them coming a mile away. Dr. Now did, and he nailed it. 

I personally cant stand hospitals, doctors, ect.....but for those who have to put up with the circus I saw last night deserve sainthood. Especially Princess.... who saw through the BS early on.

[Pepper Mostly]

So--is there any doubt that Steven spends a good part of the day trolling? He is the quintessential 800 pound guy sitting in bed with a laptop, spewing hate and rage all over the internet.

[Hockeymom]

7 minutes ago, Pepper Mostly said:

So--is there any doubt that Steven spends a good part of the day trolling? He is the quintessential 800 pound guy sitting in bed with a laptop, spewing hate and rage all over the internet.

And we pay for it. There are hundreds of work from home - on line jobs he can be doing. There are programs out there specifically for people who are on disability. If he has the ability to post videos, surf Social Media and berate hospital staff, then I think he has the ability to earn some kind of income.

[88Keys]

3 hours ago, todd said:

 

 

As far as Stephen, he played TLC, the doctors, nurses, his Facebook "fans" and anyone and everyone. You may wish him death, but he is a human being. If you judge him unworthy of help and compassion, that is a very slippery slope to go down. I too am shocked at the amount of tax money spent on this guy, which may all be for nothing......the last expense will be a trip to the country morgue and the crematorium. But we cant lose sight that most of these people Ive seen on this show need and use the help they are given. It is their only chance and they deserve our compassion and empathy, even a monster like Stephen.

I respectfully disagree.  A true monster does not deserve compassion and empathy.  Plus, Stephen WAS given compassion and empathy, and he pissed all over those trying to give it to him.  I think he sees compassion as a weakness that he can exploit.  He is not worthy of this kind of help, at least not at this point in his life.  Sometimes the most compassionate thing you can do for someone is to let them bear the consequences of their own actions for awhile. 

[Granny58]

17 hours ago, Miss Chevious said:

Just when you think there can't be anyone worse than James, along comes Steven. Justin is a waste of space too.

I may be misreading this entirely, but this is one family (the sons) that I feel are truly damaged and are dead inside.  steven rubbing the potatoes (?) all over himself, daring people to be appalled, just oozed self loathing.  And Justin is beat down.  Their mother leaving them did a job on them.  As always, I do believe there is a point where you need to take ownership of yourself and these 2 are there...so they DO need to do it.   Weirdly, though, I do see the damage.   He is scary though.   I wouldn't want to be alone with him.  

Princess, however, was a delight!

Edited March 30, 2017 by Granny58
wanted to give Princess the credit she is due.

[HahYallDoin]

3 hours ago, bethster2000 said:

  3 hours ago, Hockeymom said:

She shouldn't be telling tales. I imagine some of what she sees is confidential. Maybe she should keep it that way.

Yes! As a mid-management hospital administration employee for 21 years, I can say without question that she shouldn't be discussing anything. Not whether Dr. Now has privileges at the hospital(even though we may know this from the tv show), how long he's practiced, what his patient morbidity rates are, nothing, zip, nada! 

Sure, some employees discuss things but it violates policy. It's hard sometimes, no doubt, to not listen to the gossip or visit a friend from church when I see their name on the patient census but I don't. 

[PrincessPurrsALot]

6 minutes ago, Granny58 said:

Princess, however, was a delight!

Because all folks named Princess are! 

[operalover]

I can't help myself imitating this guy - Wheas my food? Ordah me a pizza or Im gonna kill myself. I didn't eat! I didn't get to eat! Orda me a pizza! 

Edited March 30, 2017 by operalover

[Granny58]

16 hours ago, mamadrama said:

I hate the way he would cry and moan and whine and then, when the person was gone, would laugh or smile or wink. I started out thinking sociopath. By the end, I was leaning towards psychopath. I think he would've killed his whole family for a Papa John's with a side order of Percocets. 

YEP!

[TurtlePower]

4 minutes ago, 88Keys said:

I respectfully disagree.  A true monster does not deserve compassion and empathy.  Plus, Stephen WAS given compassion and empathy, and he pissed all over those trying to give it to him.  I think he sees compassion as a weakness that he can exploit.  He is not worthy of this kind of help, at least not at this point in his life.  Sometimes the most compassionate thing you can do for someone is to let them bear the consequences of their own actions for awhile. 

So much this. I've dealt with a few "Stevens" in my time and while we treat all patients equally as far as care, the "Stevens" get just that--care, but without the "Oh you poor thing" or fawning all over them. 

Hopefully Steven's care providers are experienced and don't give in to his bullshit. I do not believe he's worthy of such an effort to help him, and this should be his very last chance. Ever. Steven needs to learn to be uncomfortable and it may take people turning their backs on him to make this happen. Of course, I see him eating himself to death with pizza and a side of hydrocodone, because there's no way Steven will accept discomfort. 

[ClareWalks]

The amazing thing is how Steven's dad, who I didn't take for much of a shy wallflower, was practically begging his son and pleading for a piece of pizza that HE BOUGHT AND PAID FOR, and that HE ORDERED. Dude, take the slice of pizza. Don't ask. Take it. If he protests, just step slightly out of reach, what the fuck is he gonna do? There is no way I'm tolerating being flipped off by anyone because I politely asked for a piece of pizza that I BOUGHT.

[gardendiva]

30 minutes ago, Pepper Mostly said:

So--is there any doubt that Steven spends a good part of the day trolling? He is the quintessential 800 pound guy sitting in bed with a laptop, spewing hate and rage all over the internet.

This is exactly what I was thinking too. I imagine him bullying and provoking people all over message boards, making them foam at the mouth in rage, then he would smile that simpering ratlike smile and move on to another board, loving the way he can control others and make them dance like marionettes at his whim, enjoying the chaos and destruction he leaves in his wake.

[Cherrio]

1 minute ago, ClareWalks said:

The amazing thing is how Steven's dad, who I didn't take for much of a shy wallflower, was practically begging his son and pleading for a piece of pizza that HE BOUGHT AND PAID FOR, and that HE ORDERED. Dude, take the slice of pizza. Don't ask. Take it. If he protests, just step slightly out of reach, what the fuck is he gonna do? There is no way I'm tolerating being flipped off by anyone because I politely asked for a piece of pizza that I BOUGHT.

I know the answer.   I have always thought that some of the more animated people will throw feces and pee.   That is always my go to answer when I wonder why in the hell do these enablers stay?  That and they need the check, have nowhere else to go.

[todd]

Domino's is coming out with a new pizza named after Steven........Its to DIE FOR.

[bethster2000]

Remembering that moment when Steven "had" to be admitted into another hospital for "extreme pain in his leg."  The nurse came in, bearing Dilaudid.  Is Steven familiar with this drug?  Why yes, he responded.  As she was injecting Steven with the drug, he mugs to the camera with a triumphant, totally self-satisfied and smug little smile.  

[scoopski potata]

5 minutes ago, TurtlePower said:

So much this. I've dealt with a few "Stevens" in my time and while we treat all patients equally as far as care, the "Stevens" get just that--care, but without the "Oh you poor thing" or fawning all over them. 

Hopefully Steven's care providers are experienced and don't give in to his bullshit. I do not believe he's worthy of such an effort to help him, and this should be his very last chance. Ever. Steven needs to learn to be uncomfortable and it may take people turning their backs on him to make this happen. Of course, I see him eating himself to death with pizza and a side of hydrocodone, because there's no way Steven will accept discomfort. 

Honestly, if he doesn't address the opiate addiction, my guess for cod is aspiration pneumonia. 

[todd]

1 minute ago, bethster2000 said:

Remembering that moment when Steven "had" to be admitted into another hospital for "extreme pain in his leg."  The nurse came in, bearing Dilaudid.  Is Steven familiar with this drug?  Why yes, he responded.  As she was injecting Steven with the drug, he mugs to the camera with a triumphant, totally self-satisfied and smug little smile.  

He knew Steven was scamming him......Princess did too.....nothing they could do though.

[CatherineM]

My thoughts:

Rhode Island paid for the medical transport in order to make him Texas' problem. I wonder if the Medicaid people in Austin hate Dr. Now for flooding the state with James's and Stephen's. 

The nurse who had to clean up his urine was practically crying. She's going to have ptsd after this. 

We take in young adults with fasd who aren't ready for independence. We have a 25 year old and a 22 year old right now. They don't all have the facial anomalies. They all have impulse control issues and stunted mental, emotional and/or physical development. There have been a couple that we had to let go because there was no way to really help them. 

None as bad as this guy. The only reason he's not in jail is because the cops don't want to have to use the resources to arrest him. The second they arrest him they'd have to pay for his medical care and have proper facilities to care for someone with his disabilities. I agree there is probably much more to this guy's back story and Justin acts like he's been horrifically abused. 

[HahYallDoin]

Sorry for my part of the Dr. Now thread drift. 

[Granny58]

13 hours ago, swankie said:

You could tell by the way Justin didn't even want to walk over to say goodbye to Steven that he's been traumatized by that jerk.  The dad doesn't seem to show him any respect either.  But since Justin is pretty mobile and doesn't seem to have any disability other than being overweight, I don't see why he doesn't get his own place and leave Steven and his dad to their own dysfunction. 

I wondered why his big adventure was walking to a park and playing with a car.  That's fine...if you are working normally during the week and taking care of yourself...and just hanging out on the weekend.   But how and why is this guy not working?  Fat people work.  Is he so traumatized by his life?  Or never learned how to have any confidence?  Or just lazy?  I, frankly, am looking forward to next week to find out more.  

[Cherrio]

4 minutes ago, bethster2000 said:

Remembering that moment when Steven "had" to be admitted into another hospital for "extreme pain in his leg."  The nurse came in, bearing Dilaudid.  Is Steven familiar with this drug?  Why yes, he responded.  As she was injecting Steven with the drug, he mugs to the camera with a triumphant, totally self-satisfied and smug little smile.  

I don't think he warranted Dilaudid.  He was up, talking, smirking, not your typical patient who actually needs a painkiller of that strength.

5 minutes ago, scoopski potata said:

Honestly, if he doesn't address the opiate addiction, my guess for cod is aspiration pneumonia. 

with a side of cheesy bread.

[TurtlePower]

1 minute ago, todd said:

He knew Steven was scamming him......Princess did too.....nothing they could do though.

Exactly. When opiate addicted patients are seeking drugs and claim to be in pain, they're medicated. We know their tricks, but these kind of patients sometimes "sue" and it's better to medicate them versus get sued by the patient for not having their pain treated--at least while in hospital care/monitoring. 

Now as for the 100 ct bottle of pills..........yeah, no. Not sure what doc he got that from since most ERs will not prescribe a pt more than 15 to go home with. 

[Granny58]

7 hours ago, mamadrama said:

(My gallbladder, kidney, spleen, spleen, intestines, and the dura patch in my brain have all spontaneously ruptured over the past few years.)

this sounds terrible.  what causes this to happen?

[88Keys]

47 minutes ago, Pepper Mostly said:

So--is there any doubt that Steven spends a good part of the day trolling? He is the quintessential 800 pound guy sitting in bed with a laptop, spewing hate and rage all over the internet.

There was a South Park episode about a big fat gross guy who sits at home playing video games all the time.  ALL the time.  I mean, he was gross because he sat at the computer all day and didn't bathe or anything.  And the boys have to defeat his character in the game ("How can you kill something that has no life?")  That's exactly who Steven reminded me of.

ETA- found a picture.  http://guyspeed.com/files/2013/06/addiction.jpg?w=300&h=200&zc=1&s=0&a=t&q=89

[Granny58]

6 hours ago, Hockeymom said:

Mom drank too much so the parents divorced. Wonderdad sends the kids to live with her. He knows she has a problem. He knows she's out every night, but does nothing until finally she bails and he's forced to step in.

I don't know if it is still true, but it used to be that mom's almost automatically got the kids.  She may have told the judge (or whoever) that she was going to clean up and be a good mom....and they gave her a shot.  

[LuciaMia]

Quote

I think he sees compassion as a weakness that he can exploit. 

With the little I know, Im leaning toward sociopath. Don't they tend to see themselves as superior and smarter than everybody else.

Nothing anybody says is going to 'get through to', or persuade Steven to change. Even any kind of discomfort or inconvenience. He'll think its only temporary and he'll be able to find some way to con his way back in. 

[todd]

7 minutes ago, TurtlePower said:

Exactly. When opiate addicted patients are seeking drugs and claim to be in pain, they're medicated. We know their tricks, but these kind of patients sometimes "sue" and it's better to medicate them versus get sued by the patient for not having their pain treated--at least while in hospital care/monitoring. 

Now as for the 100 ct bottle of pills..........yeah, no. Not sure what doc he got that from since most ERs will not prescribe a pt more than 15 to go home with. 

The more I read the madder I get. I wish i could withhold those medicaid payments we are forced to pay for. This guy has cost us a lot.....Im afraid hes just not going to make it, and we will be stuck with the bill...The ROI is not looking good.

[ClareWalks]

4 minutes ago, 88Keys said:

There was a South Park episode about a big fat gross guy who sits at home playing video games all the time.  ALL the time.  I mean, he was gross because he sat at the computer all day and didn't bathe or anything.  And the boys have to defeat his character in the game ("How can you kill something that has no life?")  That's exactly who Steven reminded me of.

ETA- found a picture.  http://guyspeed.com/files/2013/06/addiction.jpg?w=300&h=200&zc=1&s=0&a=t&q=89

OMG the World of Warcraft South Park episode is the greatest ever, and your assessment is spot on. And Steven was even screaming orders like Cartman did once he got fatter/more entrenched in the game. "MOOOOM! BRING ME MORE HOT POCKETS!"

[bethster2000]

19 minutes ago, CatherineM said:

The nurse who had to clean up his urine was practically crying. She's going to have ptsd after this. 

 

Yes, and you know it wasn't because she had to clean up urine, per se.  Nurses have to deal with all sorts of nasty shit (literally!) on a daily basis.  God only knows what kind of verbal assault Steven unleashed on that poor woman as she worked to clean up the mess he made (because you know he totally did that on purpose).

[Dru Blood]

11 hours ago, Quof said:

I didn't see him touch anyone, or throw anything at a person, which would constitute assault.

That is a good point.  If you aren't physically  violent, they can't do anything.

The last week of my Father's life was spent in a hospital.  He HATED Dr.'s and was convinced the medical personnel were out to kill him.  He slapped at a nurses hand (he was about 77 at this point) and they proceeded to over medicate him from that point on (tranquilizers).  He went into heart arrhythmia while zonked out and they had to transfer him to another hospital and doped him up some more.  He was so gone, when they got him to the hospital with a cath lab, they didn't even have to put him out, he was OUT!  To this day, I still think the first hospital killed him with too much of that damn Geodon.

[Granny58]

3 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

There is no reason we need to see any of these people naked, getting 'hosed down' or going to the bathroom. It is clear how fat they are, the mere fact that they are on My 600 pound life would tell us that. The purpose is to shame the person for seeking medical help, and to give the TLC audience something to laugh at. I fast forward thru these scenes because there is no good reason for showing these people naked or to see someone having to clean their genitals. There are also many people with disabilities who require help bathing and tolieting, and we wouldn't dream of robbing their dignity by showing it on TV. 

I understand your point of view, but I never laugh at them.  I always find it inspirational to keep moving and eat well.  Maybe (hopefully) that is the goal.  

[Dru Blood]

7 hours ago, Cherrio said:

If he went by ambulance then they by regulation as far as I know have to take him to the closest hospital.

This is very true!

[okerry]

56 minutes ago, 88Keys said:

I respectfully disagree.  A true monster does not deserve compassion and empathy.  Plus, Stephen WAS given compassion and empathy, and he pissed all over those trying to give it to him.  I think he sees compassion as a weakness that he can exploit.  He is not worthy of this kind of help, at least not at this point in his life.  Sometimes the most compassionate thing you can do for someone is to let them bear the consequences of their own actions for awhile. 

Agree 100%, especially the bolded part. When the compassion offered is destroying others in the family - like Dad & brother in this episode, and Lisa and Bayley in the James K. episode - it's time for compassion to stop. 

[Dru Blood]

7 hours ago, Lizz said:

The way he leered at the females bathing him was beyond disgusting.  

He could have been leering at the men.  He had a favorite male (nurse?/orderlie?) he kept ringing his buzzer for.

[okerry]

39 minutes ago, Granny58 said:

I wondered why his big adventure was walking to a park and playing with a car.  That's fine...if you are working normally during the week and taking care of yourself...and just hanging out on the weekend.   But how and why is this guy not working?  Fat people work.  Is he so traumatized by his life?  Or never learned how to have any confidence?  Or just lazy?  I, frankly, am looking forward to next week to find out more.  

I wondered how much education either of them has. Seems obvious that they can read and write, since they're all over the Internet and the video games, but I can't imagine either of them graduated from high school. Makes it hard to find most any job without the basic skills you get from high school, much less the piece of paper.

[Quof]

Did no one else consider it a gross HIPAA violation when the hospital told Princess that Steven had come in to the ER? 

[Dru Blood]

7 hours ago, WrongReasons said:

I call bullshit. I remember telling my mom I'd stick a knife in my stomach and remove my own appendix if someone didn't take me to the ER immediately

Tee hee hee...sorry for the pain, but great line!

[meow-mah-leg]

1 hour ago, todd said:

Thanks to Stephen, I can never look at Pepperoni Pizza the same......Hes RUINED it for me.

This might not necessarily be a bad thing. That flour and mystery meat on top does nothing good for ones body anyway. 

[xwordfanatik]

OK, I haven't read thru all the comments, so forgive me if I duplicate what another poster, posted :)

Did anyone notice that Justin yawned hugely when he and Dad said goodbye to Steven?  I can't blame him for thinking, "just do it Dad, and let's hit the road, and leave this asshole to wallow in whatever?"

And, does anyone recall seeing a pizza commercial during the episode?  That would have been a real mistake!

Even though I haven't eaten pizza in a few years (gluten sensitive & lactose intolerant), when my husband orders it, I'll never look at it in the same way again!

[scoopski potata]

15 minutes ago, Quof said:

Did no one else consider it a gross HIPAA violation when the hospital told Princess that Steven had come in to the ER? 

My guess is that because she's part of his care team, she would be on his list of people to whom medical information can be released. Hospitals can release patient location and status to anyone the patient has had a chance to be informed of or made preferences known about. Additionally, if she's authorized to receive medical information about him as one of his nurses, then they can release that information to her. I'm guessing we didn't hear all of that conversation and/or it was recreated or totally made up for the cameras. 

[Dru Blood]

7 hours ago, Michael Stabosz said:

I don't think Jonathan is still involved, which is why the show went to Hell this year. 

I have been meaning to point out that this show had to be filmed a couple of years ago.  The next episode is the next year in these two dysfunctional idiots lives.  The show had to have started filming in 2015 possibly.

Reasons I feel this way?  Dr. Now was treating Steven in that glass high rise hospital from past seasons.  I think it's called Foundation Surgical Hospital?  He was treating Nicole and James K. at St. Luke's.  If you want to say this show has gone to hell in a hand basket this year, you would be inaccurate.  It went to HIaH 2 years ago.  Earlier this season when I noticed the different hospital, I figured he had lost practice privileges either due to the high cost of treating these individuals (heck, maybe it was Steven who lost him the privileges) OR the hospital didn't want to take on the high risk of the the patient's dying any longer.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Dru Blood
wrong hospital

[todd]

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Gastric-bypass-patient-s-mother-sues-over-2005-1842140.php

The mother of a Houston woman who died one year after undergoing gastric bypass surgery in 2004 filed a medical malpractice suit Tuesday against surgeon Dr. Younan Nowzaradan and Houston Community Hospital.

In the suit, Colleen Shepherd, also of Houston, alleges that Nowzaradan and the hospital did not appropriately warn her 520-pound daughter, Tina Shepherd, 31, that the surgery would be especially risky for a woman of her size.

Nowzaradan said he didn't know Tina Shepherd had died. He saw her at least once after the surgery, but she failed to follow up when his office repeatedly called her at home.

"We called and called her to make follow-up appointments and she said she would come in, but she never showed up," he said.

 

         I bet he did tell her. And a YEAR after surgery? Plz. 

[Dru Blood]

6 hours ago, scoopski potata said:

He is literally loving his son to death.

Is he really?  He let the crazy drunk lady take them.  He know his ex was an alcoholic.  UNLESS, they had dirt on each other and she was like "you let me have tham or I'll tell the courts (drugs) about youse..."  I wonder if there wasn't a WHOLE lot left unsaid about all 4 of these individuals, not to mention all the boyfriends trotting in and outta Mam's house?  Hmmmm.

6 hours ago, POPTARTIN said:

Many many people have died on the table and during his treatments than ever should, most due to they should have never even been close to the OR

I knew there had to be a reason he has switched hospitals!

[Dru Blood]

6 hours ago, Trees said:

page 1 of results was a legal document detailing his wife's lawsuit after their divorce, with many details.  It paints him as abusive to her and dishonest with money

Knew that already.  I have never thought Dr. Now was a saint.  Just a flesh & blood (selfish flesh) man.  No surprise he is a money grubber too.

6 hours ago, Miss Chevious said:

I really don't care what happens to him. He can stuff himself until he explodes and I actually hope he does.

Like a Rhode Island version of Mr. Creosote!  Boy would I love to see that!  Dinner mint, Steven?  It's whaffer thin.

[Dianaofthehunt]

With the abuse of the cream pie in the video, I wash my hands of this "patient."  He and his ill-conceived brother should be released to a rural field, where they can throw cow patties at each other. Mentally stunted man-boys get too much screen time as it is.

Whatever their ol' drunk ma did "wrong,", she didn't do nearly enough of, to suit me.

Everyone, everyone featured on TLC is a freak; fatties, brides, hoarders, Duggars, everyone.  Stacey and Clinton got out while the getting was good.

[bubbly]

2 hours ago, scoopski potata said:

Ugh and I kinda wanted pizza this weekend too :/ 

I honestly just had to go on a run because of this dude. I just felt the need to be healthy and productive. I'm so torn between my mental healthcare provider side who just wants to dive in and help this man and the oath I took that still remains a part of me and the woman who left that job and honestly knows that sometimes people just can't be helped. But that, unfortunately, doesn't always stop us from trying. 

Preach.  I just beat the rain and finished an extra mile.  Hoarders and 600 motivate me like the R Lee Emory drill instructor in the 80's era Full Metal Jacket.