S07.E16: The First Day of the Rest of Your Life

[JackONeill]

Judith to me is where the writers screwed up. It created a liability that they just keep side-stepping. 

Negan knows who Judith is. If he really wanted to control Rick, then Negan would have her and keep her.

He even had her once, but gave her back. And now, it's like he's forgotten about her. Instead of going into battle he should at least try to find her and use her as leverage.

BUT, the problem is that a young child can't be shown in jeopardy on TV. Okay, I get that. Well why did the writers even "give" us Judith?

[Macbeth]

10 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Daryl was so popular out of the gate those first couple of seasons because he was snarky and extremely competent when most of the rest of the crew was running around like chickens with their heads cut off who didn't die the first night of the ZA seemingly on sheer dumb luck.... But somewhere in seasons 3 and 4 everybody became a super competent badass capable of cracking the occasional one liner.  So what hook did that leave Daryl?  That seems to be when the show cranked up the endless rinse and repeat of Daryl loses someone/something and then broods like a broody emo about it for half of each season for lack of anything else to do. 

If only the show would use actual water during the rinse.  And I agree with your other post NoDorothyParker (I can't do multi quotes) that Daryl got dirtier once he had access to daily showers.

[notagain]

30 minutes ago, TigerLynx said:

 

I wonder if any of the Alexandrians are like, "Hey Aaron, could you take this group back to wherever you found them?"

Why would they? They'll still be in the same shitty situation- no way to pay tribute- no long term food supply, what got them in this situation to begin with, and the blame for that can be laid at Dena's feet. There's a reason the Hilltop and Kingdom were comfortable being the Saviors' bitch, they were planning for self sustainability from the very beginning of their settlements, and they can take care of two groups, in the case of the Hilltop  at one time three groups. Dena didn't start plans for crops until CDB got to Alexandria and CDB only been there 3-4 months, 2-3 months them leading after her death. You can question CDB's intelligence in a lot of situations, but when they had the prison they were planning for self sustainability early on in their stay there. 

Edited April 6, 2017 by notagain

[nodorothyparker]

There also only appears to be maybe four or five original Alexandrians left.  The rest have all died under the current management.

[Macbeth]

Current management understands the need to farm true.  I remember Farmer Rick.  But military strategy is not his forte.  At All.  I remember the cluster F of trying to lead the pit zombies away from Alexandria by way of a conga line down the highway.  How did that work out for you Sparky?

[Mu Shu]

22 hours ago, Johnny Dollar said:

I can accept JDM's relative scrawniness as Negan, but wearing Aeropostale low-rise skinny jeans doesn't exactly strike fear. 

And the damn half assed cravat/ascot.  If you want to style yourself as the post apocalyptic Beau Brummel, learn to tie it in a fucking Mathematical knot.  Poseur. 

[RedDelicious]

1 hour ago, Andromeda said:

I actually thought it made sense. The trash site is where a lot of garbage trucks would be parked, and they're heavy duty, good for conflicts. But it was funny.

Oh my gosh it was funny as all get out. I mean even the RV makes me giggle at this point. Every time I see a crappy RV on the road I'm like, "hey Rick." And check to see if he and Michonne are driving ?

[notagain]

You can't plan for every eventuality. That walker pit is needed now as a military statergy, I would have used them against the Saviors.

[Mu Shu]

7 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Exactly. I'm not saying everyone has to go around cracking jokes and spitting out sit-com style one-liners, but humour doesn't have to be in such an obvious form. Daily situations and occurances in life itself are often ridiculous.

"Dexter", a show about gruesome murders and a serial killer, had many howlingly funny "black humour" moments, as did "Six Feet Under" - a show centered around death and dying. A show dealing with serious subjects needn't and shouldn't be unrelentingly grim. That makes it exhausting to watch.

I have to admit that Negan had had some good'uns. "The widow is alive, guns a blazing!", and "Now that fat Joey is dead, skinny Joey is just Joey".  If he was only heard spouting pithy one liners on a walkie talkie, I would love him. 

[Nashville]

9 hours ago, LadyArcadia said:

It just occurred to me that many of us are saying Rick should have just killed Eugene for his betrayal (I thought the same. In fact, I shouted "Shoot the bastard!").

Yet, that's precisely what Negan does and part of what makes him a "villain".  He kills people who double-cross him and don't follow his orders.  Hmmm...  Different perspective, I guess.

Speaking purely from my own perspective - but while watching the episode it never crossed my mind the Rick (or Rosita, for that matter) even wanted to hurt Eugene, let alone kill him, for "betrayal" or anything else.  Rather:

1. CDB's intent with the explosives was to take out Negan and the first wave of Saviors, who would hopefully come strolling up to the ASZ gate unawares. 
2. Instead of Negan, though, they get Eugene - along with his pronouncements that yes the Saviors know about their plans to attack and they are doomedDoomeddoomedDOOMED if they don't just lay down their guns, drop their pants, and stick their asses into the air while they await the Dick of Negan. 
3. However... while the Saviors have certainly communicated their awareness the ASZhats have firearms,  they don't say anything about the explosives.  And although Negan is (at present) absent, there are still a number of Saviors in range of the hidden bomb. 

So, pretty much in direct opposition to the notion Rick and/or Rosita are out to deal some payback to Eugene, I think just the opposite: Rick is torn between taking out as many Saviors as they can with the bomb vs. hurting Eugene - a moral quandary shared by Rosita.  Both eventually decide they don't have a choice except to accept Eugene as collateral damage - at which point the GPK's treachery is revealed in its fullness.

[smorbie]

Sleepy Hollow is STILL on???  OMG, I thought it would be long gone by now.

5 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

It isn't even "ZombieLand". Yeah, I'm aware of that.

But Bill Murray in Zombie makeup would make things better.  :)

[DrNowsWeightScale]

I've enjoyed this show since the beginning, way back to season 1, but I'm not quite as fond of it now, as of season 7. 

I found the show veering off the rails around S7, maybe towards the end of S6.

The show became repetitive, dull, and I hate to say it, but one or two episodes (or scenes) from S7 came across as cheesy. The scripts, most of the story lines, and pacing is what bothers me the most, I don't have a problem with the actors. 

Some episodes from S7 just came across as fillers. Any episode with the Hilltop colony is, IMO, very boring. I felt that devoting an entire episode per each community (one for Hilltop, one for Oceanside, etc) just unnecessarily dragged things out. 

The zombies don't seem to be as cool, interesting, or integral to the show as they once were, and the zombies were why I ever started to watch to begin with.

I am not a Walking Dead hater.  I don't "hate watch" the show. I wasn't one of the viewers who was angry over the Glenn dumpster fake out death scene. I was not angry over the Negan cliff hanger (where they didn't show who the victim was). None of that made me angry.

Nothing against the actor who played Glenn, and I don't mean to offend any Glenn fans, but I never really found his character interesting (outside of one or two very early episodes he was in), nor was I ever into his relationship with Maggie, so I was not upset to see him go.

The show has just gotten so slow and uninteresting.

 It bothers me that I no longer find the show as entertaining as I used to. I will keep tuning in to watch new episodes, but I feel that the show has lost something. I don't know how they can fix it.

I did really like Shiva the Tiger being unleashed to attack some of the Saviors in Negan's gang. That was fun.

[DrNowsWeightScale]

4 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

It's especially silly (or sad) when you look at how that came about. The object of Rick's lust, Jessie, dies. Rick's sitting on the couch with his buddy, Michonne, and probably thinking, "GodDAM! I was so horny and she was my type." He turns and sees his good buddy there, as usual,  and recalls the words to an old song, "If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with." She'll do, I guess.

 I never bought Rick and Michonne as a couple.

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to say that on this forum without being flamed, though.

(I'm new to the WD forum here, but I have been posting to the "My 600 LB Life" forum just fine). Some of the "shippers" can get very hostile if you dislike their favorite couple - I've seen that on other forums, either regarding "Richonne" or "Caryl" (Daryl Dixon + Carol), or whomever else.

I see Rick and Michonne as being good friends, but not as lovers. 

[smorbie]

2 hours ago, JackONeill said:

Judith to me is where the writers screwed up. It created a liability that they just keep side-stepping. 

Negan knows who Judith is. If he really wanted to control Rick, then Negan would have her and keep her.

He even had her once, but gave her back. And now, it's like he's forgotten about her. Instead of going into battle he should at least try to find her and use her as leverage.

BUT, the problem is that a young child can't be shown in jeopardy on TV. Okay, I get that. Well why did the writers even "give" us Judith?

Here's my theory, and it's just mine.  I'm not saying it even makes sense.  Let's go back to the episode where Negan was repulsing Judith with his advances.  He was holding her in his lap and cooing to her about how he would kill her brother and father and have her all to himself. 

Then, suddenly he's messing up the kitchen making spaghetti and Olivia has the baby, who is obviously tired and has her head on Olivia's shoulder.

I think Judith started to cry at some point and Negan realized that's what babies do.  They aren't always fun.  So, he gave her back to Olivia and transferred his lust to the pool table.  

Seriously, if he had her, someone one or ones would have to take care of her, and that cuts down on the number of people available to worship him and do his bidding.

It that's not it, I got nothin.

[DrNowsWeightScale]

4 hours ago, Andromeda said:

I actually thought it made sense. The trash site is where a lot of garbage trucks would be parked, and they're heavy duty, good for conflicts. But it was funny.

I sat through the S7 finale 2 or more times and must have missed that part each time!

They drove Garbage Trucks into Alexandria?? If they show this episode again, I'll have to watch more carefully next time.

I have been a big fan of TWD for years now, but aspects of S7 where just so cheese-ball, IMO, the "Trash People" (Scavengers) being one of them. 

The way they talk is just so hokey. By this point in the show, the Apocalypse has only been going on about 2, 3 years? But are we to believe that in a mere 2, 3 years an entire group of people have lost the capacity to speak in full sentences? 

And the CG work for their land fill was so cheesy. I think the show has done a fairly good job on the CG tiger, but that landfill is so fakey looking, as were the burning mattresses at the end of an earlier episode.

I also found the Zombie with all the poles sticking out of him to be rather hokey. And I don't see a good reason for the Head Trash Lady to kick Rick down into the Gladiator Pit to battle it.

What was that supposed to prove? I think the Porcupine Zombie sounds cool in concept, but on screen, it just looked rather hokey.

I do like this show, honestly I do... but I have started to have doubts or misgivings about it as of S7.

2 hours ago, notagain said:

They'll still be in the same shitty situation- no way to pay tribute- 

This is one of the things I wonder about in regards to Negan. Does Negan realize that eventually there will be no more goods to plunder?

There are only so many Wal-Marts left for Rick Grimes to find canned foods in. It's not like those empty Wal-Marts are going to get more supplies. The people Negan bully will simply not be able to bring him more or new stuff at some point, which is not their fault.

[J----av]

On 2017-04-04 at 7:10 PM, Gobi said:

This seems as good a place as any to discuss this. I've been wondering what's happened with Darryl, once one of the most interesting characters in the show. I think the problem is that he is a non-comics character, and TPTB are having increasing difficulty shoehorning him into the comics' storyline that they are following more closely.

In the past, I think they have had Darryl do things that some other characters in the comics did. Hardly conducive to a consistent character, either.

Take the whole "Darryl goes to the Sanctuary and escapes" subplot out of the  series, and what's changed? Nothing, really. And that's the  problem. Either Darryl has to do something that a major character did in the comics (problematic), or he is reduced to a glorified extra. 

Even CDB's interaction with Dwight (a comics character) is not dependent on Darryl.

There are times when it seems like Darryl is Bruce Willis' character from The Sixth Sense. He's there, but he's not really there. Think about it. Take Darryl out of the scene with Dwight in the cell, and you wouldn't have to change a word of the script. Dwight's dialogue could be the same without Darryl's knife in his face.

Maybe that's why the GPK (non-comics characters) were introduced. So Darryl can go all Rambo on their backstabbing asses, without affecting the comics' storyline.

 

 The problem with Daryl is they took away all his depth. Before he was a very gray character while now he is just all good all the time. He used to be the ass hole with the heart of gold, now he is the nice guy who only wants to do good

[J----av]

13 hours ago, ChipBach said:

If I remember the sequence properly, when the shit started, Dwight was armed and standing behind Negan.  If he was all about killing Negan, why not simply pop him right then and there?  It would have caused some serious leadership issues during the battle (or may have ended the battle)...  

 

 Well wasn't Simon there? He is pretty clearly the #2 leader in the group.

[J----av]

4 hours ago, DrNowsWeightScale said:

I've enjoyed this show since the beginning, way back to season 1, but I'm not quite as fond of it now, as of season 7. 

I found the show veering off the rails around S7, maybe towards the end of S6.

The show became repetitive, dull, and I hate to say it, but one or two episodes (or scenes) from S7 came across as cheesy. The scripts, most of the story lines, and pacing is what bothers me the most, I don't have a problem with the actors. 

Some episodes from S7 just came across as fillers. Any episode with the Hilltop colony is, IMO, very boring. I felt that devoting an entire episode per each community (one for Hilltop, one for Oceanside, etc) just unnecessarily dragged things out. 

The zombies don't seem to be as cool, interesting, or integral to the show as they once were, and the zombies were why I ever started to watch to begin with.

I am not a Walking Dead hater.  I don't "hate watch" the show. I wasn't one of the viewers who was angry over the Glenn dumpster fake out death scene. I was not angry over the Negan cliff hanger (where they didn't show who the victim was). None of that made me angry.

Nothing against the actor who played Glenn, and I don't mean to offend any Glenn fans, but I never really found his character interesting (outside of one or two very early episodes he was in), nor was I ever into his relationship with Maggie, so I was not upset to see him go.

The show has just gotten so slow and uninteresting.

 It bothers me that I no longer find the show as entertaining as I used to. I will keep tuning in to watch new episodes, but I feel that the show has lost something. I don't know how they can fix it.

I did really like Shiva the Tiger being unleashed to attack some of the Saviors in Negan's gang. That was fun.

Well to be fair, almost every show declines after season 5-6. Hell, even all time great shows like The Sopranos and Mad Men were not as good after seaon 5

[DavisTV]

What do you think about the last episode... ?

[Arnella]

8 hours ago, DrNowsWeightScale said:

I never bought Rick and Michonne as a couple.

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to say that on this forum without being flamed, though.

(I'm new to the WD forum here, but I have been posting to the "My 600 LB Life" forum just fine). Some of the "shippers" can get very hostile if you dislike their favorite couple - I've seen that on other forums, either regarding "Richonne" or "Caryl" (Daryl Dixon + Carol), or whomever else.

I see Rick and Michonne as being good friends, but not as lovers. 

I am never a shipper but Richonne happened so slowly and naturally that I was happy when they got together.  Since then, not so much which is the writers fault; not the actors.  It's like they are too self conscious about making them a happy couple for fan service and can't write for them naturally anymore.  

Case in point: That scene with the junkyard girl.  Michonne should have dispatched her with ease.  They made her the Terminator so that Michonne could look sad and beaten just so they could hammer home that shot of Rick and Carl and her being a family.  

Am I completely wrong or did they convey that feeling of family so much more naturally before they got together?

Edited April 6, 2017 by Arnella

[notagain]

1 hour ago, Arnella said:

I am never a shipper but Richonne happened so slowly and naturally that I was happy when they got together.  Since then, not so much which is the writers fault; not the actors.  It's like they are too self conscious about making them a happy couple for fan service and can't write for them naturally anymore.  

Case in point: That scene with the junkyard girl.  Michonne should have dispatched her with ease.  They made her the Terminator so that Michonne could look sad and beaten just so they could hammer home that shot of Rick and Carl and her being a family.  

Am I completely wrong or did they convey that feeling of family so much more naturally before they got together?

 I think it's a 100% about keeping Negan alive for the next season. If Michonne was to dispatch that girl quickly and with minimum damage to herself, the next logical action would be for Michonne to take out Negan, she can't do that when she's fighting for her own life. The family scene was just an added bonus. 

[AngelaHunter]

11 hours ago, DrNowsWeightScale said:

Some of the "shippers" can get very hostile if you dislike their favorite couple - I've seen that on other forums, either regarding "Richonne" or "Caryl" (Daryl Dixon + Carol), or whomever else.

Now we've got the "Dasus" (Daryl&Jesus) "shippers." And the all-time No.1: "Bethyl" (Beth&Daryl). The extent of my interest in any hookups is thinking up different combos of the names, e.g. "Deth" or "Baryl."

3 hours ago, Arnella said:

I am never a shipper but Richonne happened so slowly and naturally that I was happy when they got together.

 I'm in the minority since, although I really liked them as partners and friends, to me this big romance came so out of the blue I was thinking I must have missed something. Thinking back over the previous eps, all I could visualize was Rick lusting so badly over Jessie that he came close to murdering her husband and would probably have stepped over Michonne to get at her. Just the way I saw it.

6 hours ago, J----av said:

I don't mean to offend any Glenn fans, but I never really found his character interesting (outside of one or two very early episodes he was in), nor was I ever into his relationship with Maggie, so I was not upset to see him go.

He was interesting and appealing before he and Maggie hooked up. I found "Glenn&Maggie" deadly boring and overly saccharine.
    

Quote

 

  17 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

It isn't even "ZombieLand". Yeah, I'm aware of that.

 

 

Quote

But Bill Murray in Zombie makeup would make things better.  :)

As would Woody Harrelson! Damn, I love that movie.

[LadyMustang65]

11 hours ago, smorbie said:

Here's my theory, and it's just mine.  I'm not saying it even makes sense.  Let's go back to the episode where Negan was repulsing Judith with his advances.  He was holding her in his lap and cooing to her about how he would kill her brother and father and have her all to himself. 

Then, suddenly he's messing up the kitchen making spaghetti and Olivia has the baby, who is obviously tired and has her head on Olivia's shoulder.

I think Judith started to cry at some point and Negan realized that's what babies do.  They aren't always fun.  So, he gave her back to Olivia and transferred his lust to the pool table.  

Seriously, if he had her, someone one or ones would have to take care of her, and that cuts down on the number of people available to worship him and do his bidding.

It that's not it, I got nothin.

That's certainly a good theory.  However, I will respectfully posit a different theory.  Unless I misunderstood what was happening (and I freely admit that's quite possible), it seemed to me that Negan was trying to get Dwight's wife pregnant before she took off.  At least I have a recollection of her talking to Dwight about not being pregnant yet or something like that.  So I think Negan wants kids - he seems like the type of narcissist who would want someone to carry on his genes or something - but I think he wants *his* kids, not someone else's.  And he'd let his harem take care of his progeny until they were big enough to be of use to him.  Sort of the way Trump always let his wives raise the kids until they were around 20.  Then he finally wanted something to do with them, but it was to do his bidding and not necessarily be people in their own right.  Anyway, that's my theory.  Your mileage may vary.  <lol>

[Johnny Dollar]

The problem with Daryl is that Norman Reedus' mumble-mouth, greasy style that was all the rage in S1 can only take a character so far before the actor's inability to bring anything more to the role limits the growth of the character, forcing the writers to underutilize what should be a very important character in the whole narrative. 

[Dobian]

13 hours ago, smorbie said:

Sleepy Hollow is STILL on???  OMG, I thought it would be long gone by now.

Yeah it's still on, like the headless horseman it just won't stay dead.

[mightysparrow]

1 hour ago, Johnny Dollar said:

The problem with Daryl is that Norman Reedus' mumble-mouth, greasy style that was all the rage in S1 can only take a character so far before the actor's inability to bring anything more to the role limits the growth of the character, forcing the writers to underutilize what should be a very important character in the whole narrative. 

In my opinion, 'Caryl' was the worst thing that ever happened to Darryl.  Once tptb realized how large and how vocal that fanbase was, Darryl became little more than a Caryl blowup doll/chew toy.  They stopped writing for the character.  Every once in a while there would be a scene that was ambiguous enough to satisfy the fangirls and then that would be it.  It appeared that Reedus loved all the attention and didn't seem to care that his character was going NO WHERE.  MMB was smarter; she made sure that her character got actual story lines.

Now, Carol is hanging out with not one but two hot men and MMB is working with two really good actors, with Lennie James being hands down the best actor on the show.  What has Daryl/Reedus got?  I think the biggest sign that the writers realize that Darryl's shtick is wearing thin is his hair looks like it's been washed and is going back to it's natural colour.

[Utpe]

Eye of the tiger, LMAO!

[rmontro]

18 hours ago, JackONeill said:

Judith to me is where the writers screwed up. It created a liability that they just keep side-stepping. 

Negan knows who Judith is. If he really wanted to control Rick, then Negan would have her and keep her.

He even had her once, but gave her back. And now, it's like he's forgotten about her. Instead of going into battle he should at least try to find her and use her as leverage.

Negan has some chivalrous tendencies though - remember, he's very anti-rape.  Maybe he figures he would just as soon leave the daughters out of it.  He figured he could always use Carl for leverage if need be.  For some reason Rick just didn't care this past episode.

[JackONeill]

7 minutes ago, rmontro said:

Negan has some chivalrous tendencies though - remember, he's very anti-rape.  Maybe he figures he would just as soon leave the daughters out of it.  He figured he could always use Carl for leverage if need be.  For some reason Rick just didn't care this past episode.

Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I would like to believe you're right about Negan leaving daughters out of it.

[rmontro]

2 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I would like to believe you're right about Negan leaving daughters out of it.

It's always best to give your villains a few humanizing traits, instead of just making them 100% evil.  The best villains usually have a sense of honor in some fashion or other.

[AngelaHunter]

18 minutes ago, rmontro said:

Negan has some chivalrous tendencies though - remember, he's very anti-rape.

As I've said, I dont' believe his anti-rape stance has anything to do with chivalry. If it did, he wouldn't pressure and coerce women to have sex with him when they don't want to. No Sir Lancelot is he!

And if Negan took Judith?

 

[JackONeill]

Just now, AngelaHunter said:

As I've said, I dont' believe his anti-rape stance has anything to do with chivalry. If it did, he wouldn't pressure and coerce women to have sex with him when they don't want to. No Sir Lancelot is he!

And if Negan took Judith?

 

Small world. I remember having that thought when that movie came out. I suppose Robert Redford's character form The Natural -- Roy Hobbs --is Negan's grandaddy, and Robert DeNiro from The Untouchables is the daddy.

[rmontro]

I think Negan does have a chivalrous sense, it's just twisted.

[ChipBach]

On 4/5/2017 at 2:52 PM, smorbie said:

I think he's not sure, so he's distancing Dwight from the inner circle and probably going to be keeping a closer eye on Eugene.  He let himself slip a little with Sasha, but his hackles are really up with Dwight and Eugene now.

I think they are both still quite valuable to him, so he's not ready to heat up the furnace or the iron yet.  But, he's studying them.

And I personally don't think Kirkman can let Negan die.  I think he believes he has created the ultimate villain and that people's hatred of the character is because he (Kirkman) has been so successful in that creation.

But, I just hate him.  I hate the leaning and the never-ending talking.  I hate the caricature he's turned himself into.  Yes, he's evil.  No argument here, and I would hate him just for that.  But this....this....Why are we being punished??

Aah, you use what you've got.  The garbage trucks probably hold a lot of people, certainly more than a sedan.  And I doubt gas is a problem since Negan steals from everyone and probably has a lot of gasoline available to share.

Technically all the gas in the US would have gone bad by now and would be jelly.  But hell, if we believe reanimated dead bodies without a circulatory, respiratory system could generate energy to move for more than 3 years without completely evaporating...  Sooo...  If I believe that, I can buy magical gas.  Having said that, garbage trucks seem like a great idea.  They are powerful, hold a bunch of "stuff" and can absolutely prevent zombies from entry.  

18 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

Oh my gosh it was funny as all get out. I mean even the RV makes me giggle at this point. Every time I see a crappy RV on the road I'm like, "hey Rick." And check to see if he and Michonne are driving ?

I still have problems that Rick cannot locate a NEW RV and has to rely on an old beat up version...  I pass by huge RV lots all the time.  Hell, just in Nashville there must be five hundred tricked out buses previously owned by dead Carrie Underwood, or the Late Luke Bryan!

[ghoulina]

22 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

From the tiny peek at Michonne's pre-ZA life, it was clear that Michonne had no problem standing up to her lover, if necessary.  The woman who gave the world the phrase, 'crazy makes you stupid and stupid gets you killed' won't say a peep even when her boyfriend comes up with plan after plan that are ALL doomed to fail and will get loved ones killed.

This just isn't true. Michonne is the one who smacked Rick with a gun when he was getting out of hand. Michonne has several times voiced her opinion about what they should do, even when it's different from what Rick would do. She was training herself on her own when Rick just wanted to bow down to Negan. I actually see them as having a good relationship, where they can express dissent without fear of judgment. 

[ghoulina]

19 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

 

There also only appears to be maybe four or five original Alexandrians left.  The rest have all died under the current management.

 

Quite a lot of them were victims of the The Wolves, who had clearly been scouring the entire area for a long time (see Noah's subdivision). They found ASZ because of Aaron's backpack. In fact, the ones who were spared are likely still alive in large part to Carol and the others who realized what was going on and fought back. I can't even imagine how quickly that community would have been decimated if the Wolves had found ASZ and CDB wasn't there.

And let's not even talk about the ineffective and dangerous way the ASZhats had chosen to deal with the quarry walkers.  

[JackONeill]

Another question never to be answered: How in the world could the Wolves have missed not only Negan's people (who seem to be all over the place), but Hilltop, the Sanctuary and Oceanside???????

True, they seemed to lack leadership and planning skills. But...

[nodorothyparker]

Yes, I remember well the state of perfect suspended animation Alexandria apparently lived in from the time the world fell until about two minutes after Rick and his wrecking crew showed up, when suddenly the quarry walkers had to be dealt with RIGHT NOW, the Unfair Wolves could easily find the place, and there were Saviors under every rock and tree for miles in every direction.   Rick never seemed to tire of telling them how very lucky they were that he showed up when he did to save them all, even if they wrecked a fair portion of the town and most of them were too busy dying to fully appreciate it.

The show needed Alexandria to be like a community theater production where nothing moved until somebody yelled action so Rick could again be right even if he was rolling around bloody in the street like a crazy person.

[mightysparrow]

46 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

This just isn't true. Michonne is the one who smacked Rick with a gun when he was getting out of hand. Michonne has several times voiced her opinion about what they should do, even when it's different from what Rick would do. She was training herself on her own when Rick just wanted to bow down to Negan. I actually see them as having a good relationship, where they can express dissent without fear of judgment. 

Except for the post-Negan scouting, all of that happened BEFORE Michonne succumbed to Rick's incredibly dubious charms.  And she barely put up a fight then, even though they were mourning the results of Rick's 'Brilliant Idea #126,934'.  It was clear that Michonne had misgivings about Rick's plan to attack the Saviours outpost but she didn't say anything. 

In my opinion in order to make her a suitable partner for Rick Grimes, Michonne has been dialed down to less than half of the person she was before.  She doesn't express an opinion, unless the opinion is 'everything is going to be okay and we're going to make it'.  Carl and Michonne have barely interacted since she's started fucking his old man, and they used to have one of the best relationships on the show.

I think the most fucked up thing is the number of war councils that have taken place without Michonne.  Is she at home making dinner?  Michonne is a better fighter than Rick Grimes.  But we all know that Rick prefers his women to be more ornamental, so she's probably at home dusting the cat statue.

Personally, I think the relationship between Rick and Michonne is dreadful but then I have a problem with relationships where a brilliant woman erases herself for a man who isn't worth it.  The Michonne who went upside Rick's head with a gun because he had a hardon for a married woman, is no long with us, unfortunately.

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, ChipBach said:

 I think he believes he has created the ultimate villain and that people's hatred of the character is because he (Kirkman) has been so successful in that creation.

The Governor was a villain, but he had human traits and feelings as villains do. Even Hitler was human, not a demon with horns and a tail. Negan is the amalgamation of all the evil in the world, who has no hesitations, no second thoughts, no regrets, no remorse, no milk of rodent kindness and whose cruelty would appall even Gengis Khan. He is wee Kirkman's ultimate Mary Sue/Self insertion, especially concerning the "harem" who must submit to his testosterone-fueled, Alpha-male dominance. I'm actually embarassed on Kirkman's behalf because we know these are his fantasies. Eww.

As for the other villains: Gareth? I can buy that people might resort to cannabalism when on the verge of starvation and in a desperate state. I cannot buy that someone (or a whole bunch of someones) would do it while chortling in glee and gloating about it just a couple of years post-apocalypse. That could have been a very intriguing storyline. I wanted to know more about them, but alas, we got 6 or 9 or whatever eps of foreplay leading up to it, and 5 minutes of resolution. Next villain, please.

[SherriAnt]

7 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

The extent of my interest in any hookups is thinking up different combos of the names, e.g. "Deth" or "Baryl."

Me too, and Baryl is awesome.

[Mu Shu]

4 hours ago, ChipBach said:

Technically all the gas in the US would have gone bad by now and would be jelly.  But hell, if we believe reanimated dead bodies without a circulatory, respiratory system could generate energy to move for more than 3 years without completely evaporating...  Sooo...  If I believe that, I can buy magical gas.  Having said that, garbage trucks seem like a great idea.  They are powerful, hold a bunch of "stuff" and can absolutely prevent zombies from entry.  

I still have problems that Rick cannot locate a NEW RV and has to rely on an old beat up version...  I pass by huge RV lots all the time.  Hell, just in Nashville there must be five hundred tricked out buses previously owned by dead Carrie Underwood, or the Late Luke Bryan!

My neighbor has a beat up RV out front.  Every time I walk by, I expect Dale to be working on a cellunoid, or something.  Possibly tie rod ends. 

Can someone tell me if Tobin is alive?  I thought he got eaten on a fence, but he was rowing a boat in the finale?

Edited April 6, 2017 by Mu Shu

[J----av]

9 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Now we've got the "Dasus" (Daryl&Jesus) "shippers." And the all-time No.1: "Bethyl" (Beth&Daryl). The extent of my interest in any hookups is thinking up different combos of the names, e.g. "Deth" or "Baryl."

 I'm in the minority since, although I really liked them as partners and friends, to me this big romance came so out of the blue I was thinking I must have missed something. Thinking back over the previous eps, all I could visualize was Rick lusting so badly over Jessie that he came close to murdering her husband and would probably have stepped over Michonne to get at her. Just the way I saw it.

He was interesting and appealing before he and Maggie hooked up. I found "Glenn&Maggie" deadly boring and overly saccharine.
    

 

As would Woody Harrelson! Damn, I love that movie.

 Wait, when the hell did i say this?

[AngelaHunter]

13 minutes ago, J----av said:

Wait, when the hell did i say this?

Ugh. Actually, I had you saying the following, which obviously you did not. Having problems with my quoting. Sorry!

Quote

I don't mean to offend any Glenn fans, but I never really found his character interesting (outside of one or two very early episodes he was in), nor was I ever into his relationship with Maggie, so I was not upset to see him go.

[DearEvette]

Finally gave in and watched this.  While it wasn't terrible I was underwhelmed.

I did think it was a nice send off for Sasha.  And Yes even as a walker SM-G is still quite pretty.

I did get a chuckle because even when he was running when Carole/Kingdom/Hilltop folks came to the Alexandrian's rescue, Negan was still talking.  Like, he was talking to himself.

I will admit, though, I got a glimpse of something more than just the megalomanical blowhard in his scene with Sasha where he was trying to convince her to join him.  For a second it really looked like he really did admire Sasha for coming for him.  It wasn't just something he was saying to lull her, but it really felt like JDM was selling it as authentic and for a moment Negan felt kinda real not like the cartoon he's been all along.

I will also admit I clapped when Shiva jumped out of nowhere and here comes Ezekial with his florid pronoucements while brandishing a sword.  Never break character, King!

I still love Rick and Michonne because I fully realize that the stupidity/impotence the show is displaying for them is all in plot service to make Negan even more powerful.  Better storytelling would not have seen Rick trying to made a deal with Junkyard Jadis after she had betrayed them and would not have shown Michonne beaten bloody by Junkyard Blondie.  Just no.

I only watched four episodes this whole season and feel like I haven't missed a thing.  It seems like so much happened in early seasons.  This season was a meandering mess.  I still have hope though.

[Dodginblue]

2 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

As for the other villains: Gareth? I can buy that people might resort to cannabalism when on the verge of starvation and in a desperate state. I cannot buy that someone (or a whole bunch of someones) would do it while chortling in glee and gloating about it just a couple of years post-apocalypse. That could have been a very intriguing storyline. I wanted to know more about them, but alas, we got 6 or 9 or whatever eps of foreplay leading up to it, and 5 minutes of resolution. Next villain, please.

I was never clear on whether the cannibalism was driven by hunger or the desire to never be the cattle, only the butcher after they were brutalized and killed by the group of baddies they'd let into Terminus at some point.  That they'd decided to become predators and not prey.  How that translates into actually eating people, I'm just not sure.  Maybe they figured killing alone was too wasteful.

I found Gareth and the other guy, the one Tyrese almost but didn't actually kill although he told Carol he had, that guy, I found him interesting.  But I can see why the show had to kill them off when they did.  The problem was that the reveal on what Terminus really was, that happened so fast once they actually got there, there wasn't anywhere else to take it.

I found the claimers kind of interesting.  Mostly for the reason Daryl gave when he told Rick why he'd ended up staying with them.  Because they had a code, a stupid one, but a code.  I guess Negan has one too?  Something about punishment, that's supposed to be the code.  Except it's been so poorly explained or shown, I'm not exactly sure what it is.  

[AngelaHunter]

5 minutes ago, Dodginblue said:

I found the claimers kind of interesting.  

I did too. Of all the baddies we've seen, I found them the most realistic, and because they were the most realistic I also found them to be the most frightening. I would have loved to have seen Merle hooking up with them as well, to see if his time with CDB had made any impact on his outlook.

[nodorothyparker]

I had no trouble believing bands of people like the Claimers would exist in this universe.  I could also very easily see how someone could fall in with them because at least it was something and their rules had some kind of consistent logic to them.  Some of the baddie groups we've seen, I have no idea what the appeal or incentive would be for being a part of them beyond not getting eaten or having your head smashed in with a bat.  And with the latter, there are plenty of other terrible things that may still happen to you while you're working for points and playing asshole mover.  

I do wish they hadn't killed Merle.  His take on some of the stuff from the last couple of seasons would have been priceless.

[millennium]

I interpreted Negan's flip-off as a message from the showrunners to the viewers.

[AngelaHunter]

4 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

I do wish they hadn't killed Merle.  

Me too. Michael Rooker is always tiptop - with acting abilities far beyond most of the rest of the cast and hate him or love him, his Merle will never be forgotten. At the risk of repeating myself (sorry, bad memory) I would have paid to watch an ep dedicated to what happened to him from the time he decided to cut his hand off until the Governor picked him up. That would have been so much better than watching Beth get hit in the face and eat Guinea pigs or listening to the cheesemaker spouting parables. Unlike Tara, MR could carry an episode by himself.

What I thought about the Claimers was that their lives probably marginally improved after the ZA, which is part of made them interesting to me.