S05.E04: What's the Matter with Kansas?

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, Cosmosgravitation said:

Besides, the actor that plays Henry is only 15, while the actress that plays Kimmy is 23.  They'd get some frowns if they put them together.  Still, the awkward would be amazing, maybe they could get away with it if they didn't have any sex scenes on screen

In Game of Thrones (which takes place in a messed up world) they had thirty something Natalie Dormer with a sixteen year old male actor, as husband and wife.  Natalie Dormer is so awesome that most of the male fandom was jealous of the teenage male actor.  That still does not make it right and I get your point.

[Mrs peel]

On ‎3‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 9:58 AM, ChromaKelly said:

Oleg/Russia - Poor Mama Oleg in the gulag. I'm also not quite following the Russian grocer storyline. The store manager doesn't get more profit because she has better products and more customers, it all goes to the government, right? Another week of "nothing better happen to my Oleg!" I felt a little sad that he thought Stan had betrayed him.
Stan - Kind of proud of him but I guess he's also trying to save his own ass. I could see P&E's spy-dar go off during that dinner with the new girlfriend.
Henry - Also curious if the phone call is about being gifted in math. Maybe next season Henry's going to be involved in War Games-ish hacking? Shall we play a game...
P&E - Philip was not on his game with Ms. Logistics. It did make me wonder what happens if a mark is unreachable? Like your personalities don't mix, they get the sexual preference wrong, mark is an introvert, etc. I thought the bedtime scene was the best of the episode. It really showcased both their personalities. I do think P likes the making friends aspect of the job but hates that he's using people. He was a little jealous of E that her mark is a nice, likeable guy and he's stuck with no-personality Logistics. E is all business and doesn't give a shit that he's fun.

The store manager had the "good stuff" locked up in her cage (there's a metaphor!)  - I assumed she sold/bartered those goods for special treatment/goods for herself and her family.  I thought Oleg and his pal are working their way up to go after the person(s) who keep the "good stuff" to themselves (also probably selling/bartering it for special services/goods for themselves). at the central warehouse.  She's one store manager; the guy she buys from has many store managers giving him special treatment.

I thought P&E didn't want to do the seduction because of their growing love for each other, but also because they are realizing what Paige's future might be like.    I'm not really following the thought process of the Center, if both of the targets are single, they can't threaten to blackmail them to avoid having a spouse learn of the cheating.  Developing a relationship like P's with Martha takes time, and P&E aren't well situated for a long-term relationship in KS.  

I wish they hadn't dragged out the math teacher storyline.  Have the darned meeting already!

Good catch to whoever mentioned Henry tossing the perfectly good food away was a sly reference to the food shortages.  All I thought was "Jeez, but some more jam on the darned thing!"

Edited March 30, 2017 by Mrs peel
typo

[sistermagpie]

12 minutes ago, Gabrielle Tracy said:

Oh, and something I just thought of!  When Paige was telling Elizabeth the names of the girls Henry was talking to, one of them was called Kira.  Which is, I believe, a Russian name (based on reading Ayn Rand's We the Living anyway).  Does that mean something?  Who knows?

I think it can be a Russian name, but it also exists in a lot of other languages. The Kira in my class definitely wasn't named in a Russian way. :-)

[Solnichka]

About the store, this is my take from what I know about the problem there back then (I'm not Russian but lived there for 3 years in the 1990s & have studied their history extensively) - it was mainly a supply chain problem in the 1970s-80s. Wherever something was grown (wheat, apples, tomatoes), the growers/local community were on very strict orders not to consume it themselves but rather send everything to the central distribution place, which would then allocate everyone their fair share. Strict orders not to keep what was grown in any given place often involved gulags when disobeyed. Anyway, the transportation wasn't centrally controlled & nothing was controlled properly, so most of the foodstuff were literally rotten & inedible once they got to the stores & consumers because of all the delays & no one knowing what anyone else was doing. Everyone knew there was bountiful food rotting in trucks & warehouses all over Russia while the people starved - it was awful. Anyway, one of the only ways to survive, literally, was to be part of the black market that somehow smuggled/rescued edible food before it spoiled in transport. Probably the only way to catch these black market set-ups back then was to see the "well stocked" stores & come down hard on them as Oleg  is. Our shop doesn't appear to be a 'beryozka' (what they called the special stores for foreigners & that were well-stocked with the best of the best Russian & non-Russian products), but rather a regular market that had better produce than other markets - the shopkeeper kept saying she just has special skills in choosing the best produce - when everyone in the room knows that the produce she'd normally be picking from just doesn't look anywhere near that good. The Russians I knew were very bitter about that time, the lack of food & rationing, so while they wouldn't be quite as loud about it as Pasha's dad (sorry can't remember his name), they did recall it with disdain & anger back when it was recounted to me.

Sorry to go a tad off the topic here, but I think they've been less than clear on this storyline when understanding it in the greater context of the season - I think - adds a lot. With Henry casually tossing food in the trash for wasteful reasons, the midges, angry PashaDad, the repeated scenes of dinners out & large amounts of food, etc., the theme of having enough/not enough/too much comes through effectively. The Jennings' are almost always eating or munching on something when we see them in their home. The Burovs? Not so much. The contrast in the different homes is something I find very effective.

I agree too that Gabriel's attitude is different toward P&E this season, being more along the lines of 'suck it up' than previously. This is in line with his conversations with Claudia in the theme of nowadays the spies are soooooo coddled & if they only knew what it was like back in the day. But I wonder if it also is because P&E are different in their relationship to each other and the Center. At the start of the show, in S1, E was suspicious of P wanting to defect, & I wonder if Gabriel's more paternal, understanding, soft attitude toward them was a reflection of working them to get them closer to one another. Now that they are solid together, he can push them farther than he could before & they'll rise to the occasion instead of splintering - because they're just so good together. Just spitballing but I thought the comment on Gabriel acting differently toward P&E was interesting. Probably overthinking.

Be gentle - first post. :)

[crgirl412]

WELCOME!!

I love learning about the real stuff that people really went through there!!  The logical question is "why didn't the gov't change their distributions practices to feed their people."  But I know it's not about logic at all.

I never recognized that there IS a lot of food in the Jennings Family scenes but none in Burov Family scenes.  Very interesting!  Great observation!  

[Cosmosgravitation]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

I think it can be a Russian name, but it also exists in a lot of other languages. The Kira in my class definitely wasn't named in a Russian way. :-)

Yeah, I know it can also be an Irish name (spelled Keira).  Also, if the Russians were using an agent to get close to Henry, I'm sure they would have her use a non-Russian name.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Cosmosgravitation

[sistermagpie]

15 minutes ago, Solnichka said:

Anyway, one of the only ways to survive, literally, was to be part of the black market that somehow smuggled/rescued edible food before it spoiled in transport. Probably the only way to catch these black market set-ups back then was to see the "well stocked" stores & come down hard on them as Oleg  is.

Great first post! So are you actually saying that Oleg, in trying to root out corruption, isn't really helping anything at all, but rather making more people starve? So he thinks that the corruption is the thing that's keeping the food off the shelves but really the bad system is doing that and rooting out the corruption won't help the big picture at all, just hurt individuals? So as usual the most well-intentioned are the most tragic?

Awesome observation about the Burov family, especially since they're a well-off family. I have to say, I really do like how naturally they've made food so central. The Jennings almost always had lots of scenes in the kitchen where they prepared and ate food, but I love all the other ways they've put it in. The season even started with Stan starting to offer dinner to the Jennings kids with Elizabeth suggesting he make something healthy rather than just convenient. 

Also keep thinking about the scene last season where the first thing Paige asked about Philip's background was whether his mom was a good cook and he had to think on it and then said she made a soup he liked. I wondered at the time if it was difficult to answer because food was scarce, but it's cool they wouldn't have gone into that last season. But it means more in retrospect--Paige was dropping in bouillon to "give flavor to the noodles."

Btw, I read a comment today from the prop master on the show that contains a relative minor spoiler for the show, so I'll put it under a tag...

Spoiler

Apparently there is an upcoming scene with a genuine feast at the Burov's full of mouth-watering Russian dishes.

[Umbelina]

@Solnichka

Thank you so much!  That really helps me understand what we are looking at with the food crisis in Russia, everything from the distribution problems to the clarification about the different kinds of stores.

[Solnichka]

With no free market, it wasn't a matter of changing distribution. I was fascinated by this utter inability for this vast, lush country to feed its people, so it's really interesting but my memory ain't as good as it used to be. It was more just that there was no central control & communication - everyone was focused on saving their own skin by meeting their department's goals - so it was a situation where Worker #1 put all the apples on the truck, and where the truck went wasn't #1's problem. Transportation Worker #1 actually sold his apple truck to Rando Worker #1 so he could send his kid to the US for a better life (or for some other bartering reason), so the apples never made it to wherever they were supposed to do. It's a subject of much study, so it's great to see it play out on screen, even if a bit muddled.

I think Oleg is doing all he can & all he knows how to do. In Russia at that time, you're lucky to work, to eat, to survive outside of a gulag. So if Oleg knows spy work that actually hurts the "common" worker, then that's what he has to do. It's not quite the level of the talk with his mother, but it's a parallel for sure.  I'm sure he's conflicted, especially since we know he has a kind heart & wants to do what's right. His solo conversations with the shopkeeper seemed very compassionate & it seemed to me that both of them knew the verbal game they were playing & that neither of them was going to budge - which is why Oleg came back, or had to come back, with Boss Man.

It's sad - I mean, all of it was sad - but when the government looked at the problem with the food, they saw the "corruption" of the shops/shopkeepers getting more than their share rather than the broken system that was letting the food rot. Ah, communism. You can't admit that the problem is the system, because all hail to the glorious worker of communism! If there are flaws, then the flaws are with the people. I bet most folks in Oleg's place would have taken the oranges - even if they could go without, most everyone knew someone who was malnourished.

Love the observation about P mentioning the soup and especially his hesitation in answering the question! This is also a topic of study for me (it's like this show was made for me!) & I LOVED that comment because of what I've read about Russian 'cuisine'. Because the Russians have spent so much of their history starving - from WWII on to Communism & the Soviet era, and then when capitalism came roaring in with plenty of food utterly out of price range for almost anyone - so there's not so much of a culture of cuisine there. I mean, don't get me wrong, Russian food is amazingly delectable & delicious with rich historical significance...but when you add 100+ years of not enough food for a majority of the people, then you create a different culture that doesn't much care about food in the way we do. I'd say the average Russian that I knew would consider a good meal one you walked away from no longer hungry. Love those scenes - whenever we enter the Jennings' house, someone is in front of the TV noshing on something. The Burovs like to sit quietly, also often without lights on & near the light coming in from the window (another difference I always noticed with Russians is that I wanted to turn on the light hours - hours! - before they ever wanted to).

I appreciate all the comments here that help enhance my experience watching. I'll be more closely watching the food consumption in upcoming episodes for sure. & apologies for the generalities - I'm trying to convey my own experiences & what I remember from what I've read & not trying to speak for all Russians at all times. It's an awfully big place with a lot of varied folks...I saw & know about only a few in a limited circumstance for a limited time.

[scowl]

Another problem was how the Soviet Union focused on production numbers more than anything else. If the farms met their production expectations then it was considered a success. As for getting those bounties to the people for consumption, well, they never found a good way to determine how well that part of the system was working. It always seemed like the Soviets had a simplified perception of farming so they assumed food would naturally find its way into the mouths of the people somehow.

5 minutes ago, Solnichka said:

It's sad - I mean, all of it was sad - but when the government looked at the problem with the food, they saw the "corruption" of the shops/shopkeepers getting more than their share rather than the broken system that was letting the food rot. Ah, communism. You can't admit that the problem is the system, because all hail to the glorious worker of communism! If there are flaws, then the flaws are with the people.

It was easier during Stalin when they could blame every problem on capitalist infiltrators and Trotskyist saboteurs and have random people executed.

[Solnichka]

Gah - once the wars were over & the mass executions stopped, there were more people to feed. Ugh.

& thank you for that first part that explained meeting production quotas much better than my attempt.

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, Solnichka said:

Be gentle - first post. :)

Nothing to be gentle about. Excellent post - very informative. Welcome!

[Quando]

Quote

My fantasy is that if they discover Henry is gifted, they decide to send him to a magnet school, and one day he brings home his new girlfriend, who turns out to be .... KIMMY! 

. . . or maybe Soon-Hee's daughter, or niece!  Wouldn't that be awesome.

[txhorns79]

Quote

In Game of Thrones (which takes place in a messed up world) they had thirty something Natalie Dormer with a sixteen year old male actor, as husband and wife.  Natalie Dormer is so awesome that most of the male fandom was jealous of the teenage male actor.  That still does not make it right and I get your point.

Why would it matter?  It's just acting.  If it was real life, and they were really dating,that would be an issue, but otherwise, it doesn't seem like something substantial. 

Quote

. . . or maybe Soon-Hee's daughter, or niece!  Wouldn't that be awesome.

I can't even imagine what it would be like if Elizabeth came face to face with her.  I think it would be a rare moment where Elizabeth would be completely unable to deal with the situation. 

[Paloma]

4 hours ago, Solnichka said:

Be gentle - first post. :)

Great post! Keep 'em coming.

[shura]

4 hours ago, Solnichka said:

Anyway, one of the only ways to survive, literally, was to be part of the black market that somehow smuggled/rescued edible food before it spoiled in transport. Probably the only way to catch these black market set-ups back then was to see the "well stocked" stores & come down hard on them as Oleg  is.

This makes sense. The only thing that doesn't quite fit is that Oleg seems to be earnestly looking for corruption and bribery, while what you are describing is good old-fashioned theft and trafficking in stolen property. Someone steals the goods from the supply chain, and the store manager simply buys and resells them. There is no bribery involved, and the KGB/OBKhSS would know that.

There is also the question of why the store manager cares so much to be so well-stocked with higher quality produce. She'd turn a profit even with the crappy, half-rotten stuff if she held it back. People would buy it anyway since there is nothing else there, and her store wouldn't stick out as much. I suppose she might be shooting for attracting and keeping her customers with the higher quality goods. If so, that's very entrepreneurial and capitalist of her, isn't it?

[crgirl412]

44 minutes ago, shura said:

This makes sense. The only thing that doesn't quite fit is that Oleg seems to be earnestly looking for corruption and bribery, while what you are describing is good old-fashioned theft and trafficking in stolen property. Someone steals the goods from the supply chain, and the store manager simply buys and resells them. There is no bribery involved, and the KGB/OBKhSS would know that.

There is also the question of why the store manager cares so much to be so well-stocked with higher quality produce. She'd turn a profit even with the crappy, half-rotten stuff if she held it back. People would buy it anyway since there is nothing else there, and her store wouldn't stick out as much. I suppose she might be shooting for attracting and keeping her customers with the higher quality goods. If so, that's very entrepreneurial and capitalist of her, isn't it?

Very astute observation!  Maybe we'll find out what her angle is!

[RedHawk]

4 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Awesome observation about the Burov family, especially since they're a well-off family. I have to say, I really do like how naturally they've made food so central. The Jennings almost always had lots of scenes in the kitchen where they prepared and ate food, but I love all the other ways they've put it in. The season even started with Stan starting to offer dinner to the Jennings kids with Elizabeth suggesting he make something healthy rather than just convenient. 

And that first time Tuan took Pasha home to meet his "parents", Tuan casually offered Pasha a banana, grabbed one, and they went up to his room. I assume Pasha wasn't accustomed to being offered fruit so casually on walking into a home.

[SlackerInc]

9 hours ago, AllyB said:

She was in her 20s and early 30s on Ellen and is in her 50s now, she was also physically exerting herself on the bike. If anything she's aged really well.

Yeah, I was puzzled when I read that comment.  All I could figure was that the commenter must have forgotten how long it has been since Ellen was on the air.  The only female actor I can think of who didn't appear to age much from her early thirties to early fifties is Julia Louis-Dreyfus, and she's a freak of nature.

3 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

He can be really good at math and have other interests, including friends. I don't see why he can't be in an advanced/honors math class and still be interested in dating girls or playing video games.

Indeed!  I got a perfect score on the SAT, including the math section (sorry for the brag, but it's relevant), and although I started high school as a geek, I got a kind of makeover after sophomore year and I was something of a player for the last two years (e.g., my mom at one point complained that I had three different girls calling the house and leaving messages from "Jen", "Jenny", or "Jennifer", which was very confusing).  Not that there aren't the other types of math geeks out there, of course.  I went to engineering school and met a guy who read an advanced calculus book for leisure reading, was completely unfamiliar with current music or movies, and was hopelessly nerdy looking.  But there's no reason Henry has to be of that type.

[qtpye]

7 hours ago, SlackerInc said:

Indeed!  I got a perfect score on the SAT, including the math section (sorry for the brag, but it's relevant), and although I started high school as a geek, I got a kind of makeover after sophomore year and I was something of a player for the last two years (e.g., my mom at one point complained that I had three different girls calling the house and leaving messages from "Jen", "Jenny", or "Jennifer", which was very confusing).  Not that there aren't the other types of math geeks out there, of course.  I went to engineering school and met a guy who read an advanced calculus book for leisure reading, was completely unfamiliar with current music or movies, and was hopelessly nerdy looking.  But there's no reason Henry has to be of that type.

The salutatorian in our class was also captain of the football team.  He aced his Cal placement test and loved high level math.  He was very popular and great at sports.  I was in the advanced classes (I am female) and quite frankly, the guys in my classes that were interested in having girlfriends at that time, had them.  The ones that did not, really didn't care...since everyone was going off to college soon.

[gwhh]

Let's be honest.  If they (center/KGB) sent someone to watch Stan. They would send the best they had.  Check her fingers?  Is she rolling them? 

[Mrs peel]

17 hours ago, shura said:

This makes sense. The only thing that doesn't quite fit is that Oleg seems to be earnestly looking for corruption and bribery, while what you are describing is good old-fashioned theft and trafficking in stolen property. Someone steals the goods from the supply chain, and the store manager simply buys and resells them. There is no bribery involved, and the KGB/OBKhSS would know that.

There is also the question of why the store manager cares so much to be so well-stocked with higher quality produce. She'd turn a profit even with the crappy, half-rotten stuff if she held it back. People would buy it anyway since there is nothing else there, and her store wouldn't stick out as much. I suppose she might be shooting for attracting and keeping her customers with the higher quality goods. If so, that's very entrepreneurial and capitalist of her, isn't it?

But remember the store manager didn't have the good produce available for sale up front.  It was locked up in back.  She was making a personal profit (cash/barter/whatever) off the stuff, by selling/bartering it to special customers.  There was corruption.  Though I appreciate everyone's information on the messed up distribution system and failure of the Soviets to fix it.  Did they even try?

[gwhh]

Anyone else notice.  Phillip getting that old familiar (homocidle) look.  Some one else is banging my wife. Where is my black murder gloves?

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, gwhh said:

Let's be honest.  If they (center/KGB) sent someone to watch Stan. They would send the best they had.  Check her fingers?  Is she rolling them? 

What do you mean about rolling fingers?

[Chaos Theory]

1 hour ago, gwhh said:

Let's be honest.  If they (center/KGB) sent someone to watch Stan. They would send the best they had.  Check her fingers?  Is she rolling them? 

 

26 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

What do you mean about rolling fingers?

Heh.  That's what P&E told Paige to do (rub her fingers together) if she felt feelings and needed an emotional time out.

[Sarah 103]

On March 30, 2017 at 0:33 PM, Cosmosgravitation said:

Paige mentioned hearing a "Kiera" and "Wendy" associated with Henry.  For a brief moment, my brain speculated that if you merged the names together and added an "mm" sound in the middle, you could kinda sorta get Kimmy out of it.  But then I realized since they don't go to the same high school it'd be a huge stretch for them to have even met.

It's not totally beyond the realm of possibility that Henry might run into Kimmy at some point. Sometimes high school students know someone from another school through family, church/synagogue, summer camp, extracurricular activities, and what not. If someone in Henry's school knows someone in Kimmy's school, it's possible they could end up at the same party.  

22 hours ago, Solnichka said:

I bet most folks in Oleg's place would have taken the oranges - even if they could go without, most everyone knew someone who was malnourished.

That to me spoke volumes about who Oleg was. He thinks he's there to stop corruption and won't participate in it. He is somewhat honest when it comes to his latest assignment. 

[kokapetl]

Kimmy is a few years older than Henry (I think she's the same age as Paige), and I don't think she likes younger guys, considering "Jim" looked at least 30. Julia Garner is also 23, Kiedrich Sellati is 15.

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

 

Heh.  That's what P&E told Paige to do (rub her fingers together) if she felt feelings and needed an emotional time out.

Oh of course it is. My brain clearly wasn't in gear - I didn't get "rub" from "rolling" but in the context it should have been clear.

[Cosmosgravitation]

2 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

It's not totally beyond the realm of possibility that Henry might run into Kimmy at some point. Sometimes high school students know someone from another school through family, church/synagogue, summer camp, extracurricular activities, and what not. If someone in Henry's school knows someone in Kimmy's school, it's possible they could end up at the same party.  

Yeah, it's not impossible, just very unlikely.

Quote

Kimmy is a few years older than Henry (I think she's the same age as Paige), and I don't think she likes younger guys, considering "Jim" looked at least 30. 

Henry could easily pass for someone several years older, I wouldn't put it past him to pretend to be someone older.  Besides, people's preferences can go through phases and change, maybe Kimmy's father figure issues have been resolved.

Quote

Julia Garner is also 23, Kiedrich Sellati is 15.

I mentioned this earlier in the thread and someone pointed out that Game of Thrones had a sex scene between an actress in her early thirties and a sixteen year old actor.  There might be a slight difference since sixteen is the age of consent in a lot places, although even so it is not like it'd be illegal - it's just pretend.  And honestly, any controversy it caused would only help ratings, it could easily result in a bump in the young male demographic.  IMO, the reason it won't happen is because the logistics make it unlikely they'd even meet.  

[JennyMominFL]

On 3/29/2017 at 2:49 PM, gwhh said:

What in Pastor Groveyhair Journal:

Its his hair care journal. You know it's long and detailed.

So I tweeted this to Kelly Au Coin.. His responses

me: just saw this comment somewhere.Whats in Pastor Groovyhair Journal?Its his hair care journal. You know it's long and detailed:

KOC, Ha, were'd you see that

me @previosly TV

KAC I would only add "luxurious"

[Solnichka]

I wish the Oleg story - with his job, his motivations, & with the shopkeeper - was a little clearer. I'm enjoying it so much, and generally like the somewhat mysterious stories that take time to understand & unfold, but my take on it is obviously incomplete & with all the questions I have & that I've seen asked here, I'm not sure if on this storyline, it's a bit too vague to really get the point out of it. I'm confident that they're trying to convey the stark differences in food availability/accessibility between the US and USSR during that time. That seems obvious. But the corruption by the shopkeeper, and Oleg's compassionate humanity bumping up against his job to root out corruption leaves me wondering if I'm supposed to feel sympathetic towards the shopkeeper or think she's a corrupt, selfish capitalist gaming the system & hurting others. Or am I supposed to think she's the smart, scrappy capitalist who Gets Things Done when times are tough? Oleg's honest, yes I agree, and also seems sympathetic to the plight of our corrupt tangerine hoarder, but also is the one coming down on her (is forced to?), hard (& one just has to wiggle their eyebrows on that one - it IS Oleg after all - and suggest him "coming down on" someone might not be the worst thing on the planet...ahem). Anyway, I hope we continue to find out more on this & do really like how they are bringing the stories together over food.

[dubbel zout]

I feel like Oleg is going through the motions with this job, especially when he saw how little was in that store in the first place. If he were really going to do something about corruption, he'd have gone after the employee much harder than he did. I think he'd do something if he suspected hard-core wrongdoing, but the small-scale corruption is how people survive.

I think that was a big reason he didn't want to go back with his colleague.

Edited March 31, 2017 by dubbel zout

[shura]

5 hours ago, Mrs peel said:

But remember the store manager didn't have the good produce available for sale up front.  It was locked up in back.  She was making a personal profit (cash/barter/whatever) off the stuff, by selling/bartering it to special customers.  There was corruption.  

Yes, for sure. But this is more corruption of the general kind, where any crime is a corruption of how things should be in a fair world. My understanding is that Oleg (or, rather, his boss) is after the specific kind of political corruption where government and party officials on the level of his father's enrich themselves through some black market schemes using the powers of their office in exchange for bribes, or something like that. I can't see yet how the store manager is necessarily connected to that kind of corruption - she can do everything she does without being a part of that. I agree, the story is not nearly clear enough. Hopefully, the writers have something reasonable planned out there.

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, shura said:

I can't see yet how the store manager is necessarily connected to that kind of corruption - she can do everything she does without being a part of that. I agree, the story is not nearly clear enough. Hopefully, the writers have something reasonable planned out there.

I assumed they were trying to follow the chain and see if it led to anyone in power. That's why they just wanted her to rat someone out who was above her.

On 3/30/2017 at 6:52 PM, Quando said:

. . . or maybe Soon-Hee's daughter, or niece!  Wouldn't that be awesome.

Just had to say that I always accidentally call her some form of this name too, but it's Young-Hee. Soon-Yee is Woody Allen's wife.

[VCRTracking]

It seriously bums me out that Oleg thought Stan betrayed him.

Also, I really thought they recast Henry for a moment. The haircut is what threw me.

Edited April 1, 2017 by VCRTracking

[Umbelina]

7 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

It seriously bums me out that Oleg thought Stan betrayed him.

Also, I really thought they recast Henry for a moment. The haircut is what threw me.

Stan burned Oleg the moment he gave that tape to the FBI.

[VCRTracking]

Yeah. Stan was naive to think there would be no further consequences of that.

The contrast between Phillip meeting his mark, and Elizabeth and hers was hilarious. Even the lighting with the cold fluorescent gym lights with Deirdre and the golden backlighting on Ben. Too much!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I was kind of hoping that Oleg would accept the tangerines and then walk around the store handing them out to those poor people looking for food on the nearly empty shelves.

[kokapetl]

I'm watching the second season again, Henry turns 11 in the 1st episode, and Dameran walks into the Soviet embassy two episodes later, on January 25, 1982. In season 5 its early 1984, Henry is "currently" 13. 

At this rate, this show will end some time in 1985. 

Glad the producers aren't jerking us around with stupid wheat conspiracies.  

[gwhh]

14 hours ago, JennyMominFL said:

So I tweeted this to Kelly Au Coin.. His responses

me: just saw this comment somewhere.Whats in Pastor Groovyhair Journal?Its his hair care journal. You know it's long and detailed:

KOC, Ha, were'd you see that

me @previosly TV

KAC I would only add "luxurious"

Very many thanks. That so cool.  That idea just popped into my mind.   So I wrote it down.  Love his comment back. 

Edited April 1, 2017 by gwhh

[Erin9]

8 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Stan burned Oleg the moment he gave that tape to the FBI.

That's a good point. He may be sorry now, but he did stab Oleg in the back. From that pov, now that I think about it, I'm glad we got to hear Oleg talk about making a mistake in trusting Stan. It was. 

[sistermagpie]

3 minutes ago, Erin9 said:

That's a good point. He may be sorry now, but he did stab Oleg in the back. From that pov, now that I think about it, I'm glad we got to hear Oleg talk about making a mistake in trusting Stan. It was. 

Yes, I think it's always tempting to want to focus on wherever somebody's head was at at a certain time, but their actions have consequences even after they've changed their mind. Stan's whole plan when he got to know Oleg was to burn him. That's why he made the tape and gave it to the FBI. Sure he'd like to say to Oleg now that he'd changed his mind and didn't betray him *after* he gave up William, but he still did it. Just as Elizabeth wanted Philip to understand that she only gave him bad reports to the KGB before she was in love with him. Or with Martha, she started out spying on the FBI with the understanding that it was for the DOJ (even if she didn't do enough checking on that), but eventually she was actively spying for some unknown entity, one she wasn't entirely surprised to eventually learn was the KGB.

[jww]

A lot of people are speculating that Henry is on the computer which would be next to impossible in 1984.  There really was no: websites, newsgroups, google, alta vista... beginning around 1985 you had search engines such as Archie, Veronica and Gopher you searched by file name and then requested the file by a ftp request.  AOL began in 1983 but for the first few years only offered online gaming.

[dubbel zout]

There were computer science classes, though. I was in high school from 1977–1980 (there were still junior highs then), and I can remember seeing the phone receiver placed in the modem so you could work at the computer. You learned how to write programs for...whatever you wrote programs for. (Maybe you were being taught a programming language? Sorry, I have no idea what they did.) There might not have been much of an internet, but there were still people who were really into computers. I don't find it odd that Henry is one of those people.

[sistermagpie]

13 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

There might not have been much of an internet, but there were still people who were really into computers. I don't find it odd that Henry is one of those people.

I think Henry's definitely one of those people. More and more I think Umbelina's theory makes the most sense, that the math teacher is there to at least in part talk about Henry's parents finding ways to support his interest in computers because he's already beyond his teacher. Which is exactly why the Centre thought it would make sense to invest in a computer for the Jennings' house. If one of the kids took to this new technology, that would only be useful for them down the road.

But that's a slightly different thing that the idea that Henry is using the computer to talk to unknown people. He probably knows about modems etc., but his primary interest is probably computers and computer science in general.

[Clanstarling]

22 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I think Henry's definitely one of those people. More and more I think Umbelina's theory makes the most sense, that the math teacher is there to at least in part talk about Henry's parents finding ways to support his interest in computers because he's already beyond his teacher. Which is exactly why the Centre thought it would make sense to invest in a computer for the Jennings' house. If one of the kids took to this new technology, that would only be useful for them down the road.

But that's a slightly different thing that the idea that Henry is using the computer to talk to unknown people. He probably knows about modems etc., but his primary interest is probably computers and computer science in general.

I was writing pretty much the same thing, and realized you said it better. The only addition I can make is that many computer engineers/programmers started by being exceptional math students - which is how my husband got into the biz, in 72 he was one of the first graduates with a computer science degree at his university (now known for programs like this).

Edited April 1, 2017 by Clanstarling

[SlovakPrincess]

Stan willing to sacrifice himself to protect Oleg was the one point of interest in this whole episode for me.  

I can totally relate to Philip getting bored with all of this at this point.  Use nice person as a mark and gain their trust, get the info you need and possibly ruin their life in the fallout, feel kinda bad about it but move on to the next job ... lather, rinse, repeat ...      As a viewer, I'm starting to lose interest myself!

Other than the Pastor Tim and Alice stuff, this season seems almost completely disconnected from last season.  Losing Martha, Gad, William, and Nina (even if her story was depressing and silo-ed from the rest of the show) really messed with the continuity.  Also, dropping the infectious diseases stuff and moving right onto grain and pests ... 

I'm starting to get impatient for Stan to get suspicious of Philip and Elizabeth already.  Or for Paige to really fuck up and blow their cover.  

[Sarah 103]

2 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

I'm starting to get impatient for Stan to get suspicious of Philip and Elizabeth already.  Or for Paige to really fuck up and blow their cover.  

If they don't tell Henry, I could see Henry inadvertantly bringing them down. It would be a complete accident. Henry says something that as far as he knows is completely innocent and innocuous, but rings a bell with Stan. Stan starts looking into stuff and realizes who his neighbors really are. 

[Sarah 103]

On March 31, 2017 at 4:23 PM, Kokapetl said:

Kimmy is a few years older than Henry (I think she's the same age as Paige), and I don't think she likes younger guys, considering "Jim" looked at least 30. 

 

23 hours ago, Cosmosgravitation said:

Henry could easily pass for someone several years older, I wouldn't put it past him to pretend to be someone older.  Besides, people's preferences can go through phases and change, maybe Kimmy's father figure issues have been resolved. 

That's what I thought. If Henry is pretending to be a few years older than he is and hanging out with high school students, than it's not impossible for him to cross path's with Kimmy. It's a stretch, but I think it's a solid fan theory. 

22 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I feel like Oleg is going through the motions with this job, especially when he saw how little was in that store in the first place.

I think Oleg and Philip are both growing disillusioned with thier jobs and the Soviet system. It would be amazing to get the two of them in a room together for an off the record conversation. I know it's impossible and will never happen, but it would be amazing. 

21 hours ago, shura said:

 My understanding is that Oleg (or, rather, his boss) is after the specific kind of political corruption where government and party officials on the level of his father's enrich themselves through some black market schemes using the powers of their office in exchange for bribes, or something like that. 

 

20 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I assumed they were trying to follow the chain and see if it led to anyone in power. That's why they just wanted her to rat someone out who was above her.

That's what I thought too. The only reason they were interested in her was that she could lead them to next link in the chain. They are after much bigger fish. 

5 hours ago, jww said:

A lot of people are speculating that Henry is on the computer which would be next to impossible in 1984.  There really was no: websites, newsgroups, google, alta vista... beginning around 1985 you had search engines such as Archie, Veronica and Gopher you searched by file name and then requested the file by a ftp request.  AOL began in 1983 but for the first few years only offered online gaming.

There was Arpanet. The military, major defense contractors and large universities had the early form of the internet during the late 1970s and through the early 1980s. If memory serves correct, parts of WarGames from 1983 (the idea of being hack into a company's system to access the games) were accurate. I think there were also a few primitive chatrooms at this point. Assuming Henry could get online and all was able to do was play the games AOL had, I think he'd be happy (unless the games totally sucked).

[sistermagpie]

15 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

That's what I thought. If Henry is pretending to be a few years older than he is and hanging out with high school students, than it's not impossible for him to cross path's with Kimmy. It's a stretch, but I think it's a solid fan theory. 

But it's not really a theory, is it? They're two characters on the same show who've never been anywhere near each other. (People used to say Kimmie would wind up going to Pastor Tim's church and meet Paige, who was the same age.) There's no reason to think they're interacting now. I mean, they could run into each other, but Henry could just as easily run into Pasha or Tuan or Charles Deluth.