S05.E04: What's the Matter with Kansas?

[MisterBluxom]

Bama,

Oops. My mistake. Thank you for pointing that out.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

It just seems odd to me that there is enough spying and infiltration to do that the center has all this infrastructure but they don't have any agents west of DC to send on this mission to Kansas. Are Elizabeth and Philip the only active agents left in the entire country?

[Chaos Theory]

My guess is Stan's boss is going to try to screw him over by putting him in some go nowhere position like maybe guarding the house of a Russian expatriate making wheat or something.  And Stan being Stan will turn it into something that gets him close to his Russian illegals.

P&E are seriously being overbooked.  They are supposed to be the top agents not the only agents.  This seems more like punishment from Gabriel then anything.  Seriously though how many assignments can you give a couple of agents before people notice they are never at home?

[Ellaria]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

It just seems odd to me that there is enough spying and infiltration to do that the center has all this infrastructure but they don't have any agents west of DC to send on this mission to Kansas. Are Elizabeth and Philip the only active agents left in the entire country?

It just seems that "pushing" them to take on one more assignment particularly one of this nature - a cross country honeypot - wouldn't be a wise move. Last season, we saw Philip's guilt (for lack of a better word) about Martha. Then, at the end of the season, Gabriel declares that it may be time to send them home. This season, he tells Claudia that "everything scares those two." They are clearly stressed and both are displaying varying levels of reluctance and indecision. 

I understand that spies are supposed to be "spying" (and not sitting around their house) but I think that P&E are in a dangerous place emotionally. If the "grain destroying midges" plot is a hoax, their reactions could be a game-changer. And as much as I enjoy Frank Langella, I really hope that Gabriel meets his well-deserved end soon.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Ellaria Sand

[Paloma]

5 hours ago, SWLinPHX said:

Quote

Finally, did anyone else wonder about the name of the "experienced interregator"? My subtitles indicated his name was "Russia". Could that be correct? I have never before heard that name used as the first name of a Russian citizen. What's going on with that? Does anyone know if that is really a first name in the USSR?

No, it was "Ruslan" -- or something like that

Yes, it was Ruslan--I recognized the name because it is the name of a driver we use when we go to Israel. He emigrated from Russia to Israel several years ago.

[benteen]

Quote

I thought he was trying too hard in the gym and rushing things. He came off like a creeper.  I thought the woman might question how he even got her phone number.

Yeah, I thought Philip was going way too hard on this (maybe intentionally to get it over with) and him immediately asking her if she had a family was stupid and should have raised suspicions. 

It's interesting that Elizabeth always acts negatively when something spy-related happens to Paige but her zealotry eventually takes over and she begins to look at the possibilities for Paige and for them.

[Chaos Theory]

36 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I was waiting for Oleg's mom, to say that the man he knows as dad isn't his biological father.

That's waaay too much of a soap opera for this show.  I think Oleg's mom handled it well and handled it like anyone who knows way to much loss and doesn't want to lose the one good thing she has left would.  "Do what yo have to.  Don't worry about me."  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Oleg's mom is a badass and mentally tough if she survived five years in the gulag.

[stagmania]

5 hours ago, Umbelina said:

They have no intention of teaching Paige to flirt, seduce, extort, or kill.  They are, or at least Elizabeth is, still deluding herself that Paige won't have to do any of that.

I kept waiting for the lightbulb moment in that kitchen scene where Paige would realize that her mom is seducing the scientist. It stretches credibility for me a little that she hasn't figured this out yet; does she really think they just become friends with all these people?

5 hours ago, scartact said:

The scene where Phil and Liz try to opt out of Kansas was amusing. They're both gettin' too old for this shit, eh?

There were about three different points in this episode where you could see Phillip stuffing the words he clearly wanted to say back down his throat. He doesn't want them to have to honey trap anymore; it bothers him more than it used to. His effort with the Topeka woman was not his best work.

Gabriel knows it, too. He basically dared them to come out and say that they don't want to fuck other people anymore. Such an uncomfortable stare down.

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I really felt for Elizabeth and Philip when they were told to get their asses to Kansas to sleep with these two new potential sources. Even if you take the honeytrapping out of the equation, they're running a legit business, they have two pain in the ass teenagers to deal with (one of whom is dating the son of their FBI agent neighbor), they have a fake family so that they can cozy up to the Russian family, and they're running around investigating the grain bugs. They really don't have time to be flying to Kansas every few days. Ain't nobody got time for that! Surely they the Russians must have some agents closer to Kansas who can handle a simple "seduce and get secrets" operation.

I'm kind of surprised to see the Centre overloading them again after already driving them to the brink once before. They're going to burn out their top agents, and all that travel has them gone from home way more than they should be. It makes little strategic sense. Surely there are some other attractive young agents that could handle this without having to fly back and forth multiple times a week.

47 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I understand that spies are supposed to be "spying" (and not sitting around their house) but I think that P&E are in a dangerous place emotionally. If the "grain destroying midges" plot is a hoax, their reactions could be a game-changer. And as much as I enjoy Frank Langella, I really hope that Gabriel meets his well-deserved end soon.

I do wonder if this is where we're heading-a final snap as a result of a poorly conceived mission and the arrival of Phillip's son.

I really liked that final bedroom scene, with Phillip seeming a little jealous and Elizabeth looking at him like he was crazy and explaining how she actually felt about her target. She doesn't appreciate his nice personality or likability, she resents it! I always love those moments where you get a peek into her thought processes, because I think we (and Phillip) can sometimes be fooled into thinking she enjoys the work in a way she doesn't just because she's so much better at compartmentalizing than he is.

[shura]

8 hours ago, vb68 said:

I think Stan's an idiot.  If he doesn't get arrested, how does he not even get demoted/transferred?  He's being too adamant about Oleg and telegraphing he's got potential to flip sides. 

I don't understand it either. Stan is not even saving his own ass by coming clean, he is likely to suffer the same consequences no matter how the Deputy AG learns about Vlad. And how is this a good way to protect Oleg anyway? "If you push on Oleg, I am going to go public with what I did. Huge scandal!" Sure, but you will have to do it during your trial, Stan, at which the US will show that you committed a horrible crime, got caught and are being punished for it, so justice is being served the way it's supposed to be. Scandal, yes, but shit happens, it's not like the reasonable world is going to learn and start believing that the FBI has a program of killing foreign diplomats there. Just a rogue criminal, that's all. Sorry about that, USSR.

8 hours ago, escatefromny said:

That that there were better stocked stores for the mucky mucks in Soviet Russia is a good example of the institutional corruption and hypocrisy.  But it would have existed on an institutional level ... the store manager of a shop that caters to the high level, special card holding types wouldn't need to pay bribes to get good product would she?  Those details would have been worked out several layers above from her.  Where would the store manager possibly get the money for the bribes?  She doesn't own the store, or share in the profit.  She can't syphon off "profits" for the bribes and it's not her problem is the shelves are bare anyway.  The whole thing makes no sense to me.  Is Oleg's department really unaware that that certain sectors of Russian society get preferential treatment?  Or are they like "internal affairs" and trying to clean up the system?

I am just as puzzled here, too. That particular store doesn't seem to be one of those special stores for bigwigs, but it's still just part of the system. And the manager really does not have any incentive to pay bribes for better products. She can simply hold back her regular shipments and people would still pay extra to buy them since there is nothing on the store shelves anyway. She can skim all she wants from that without having to use her own money to bribe anyone.

Is Elizabeth thinking that Pastor Tim would describe affairs with parishioners in his diary and leave it in a place easy enough for Paige to find? His wife could find it just as easily, and no matter how much trust there is between them, she would read it if she ever has any suspicion about him. Or maybe Elizabeth is thinking threesomes... Those condoms weren't for nothing!

[DrSpaceman73]

I found this episode pretty slow moving and dull.  As has been the whole season. I know part of it is they were going to Kansas, it is dull, they were showing that, but still, slow movement here. 

Paige in particular, not much interest in her story right now. 

Henry has certainly changed, physically and otherwise.  I'd rather know what is actually happening with him than delve more into some of these stories. 

[Dev F]

27 minutes ago, stagmania said:

I kept waiting for the lightbulb moment in that kitchen scene where Paige would realize that her mom is seducing the scientist. It stretches credibility for me a little that she hasn't figured this out yet; does she really think they just become friends with all these people?

I thought there was a suggestion that she does realize: the fact that Elizabeth never mentions the gender of the scientist she's getting to know, but Paige immediately assumes it's a man.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Dev F

[shura]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

Does Paige have any other look on her face other than that, I just peed myself look?  She certainly does not have a poker face.

Actually, if you only have one look, it's the ultimate poker face. Paige should look into that.

[stagmania]

7 minutes ago, Dev F said:

I thought there was a suggestion that she does realize: the fact that Elizabeth never mentions to gender of the scientist she's getting to know, but Paige immediately assumes it's a man.

Yeah I expected that to lead to something, but it didn't. If Paige actually put it together that her parents have sex with other people for their job, we would see a strong reaction. 

[gwhh]

6 hours ago, scrb said:

Looks like Philip and Elizabeth both didn't want to do the honeypot thing again.

Especially having to fly all the way to Kansas frequently.

Philip didn't seem to like the idea of his wife sleeping again with other men again.

Meanwhile, Elizabeth looks at her mark as a guy who's working on starving another country yet the guy seems like a nice person, not the monster that she imagines him to be.

Wonder how Paige would react if she knew what her parents were up to in Kansas.  

"How do you get him to tell you what you want to know?"

"I sucked his cock"

Oh wait, that was Nina.  

If they are having qualms about still having to seduce people to get information, are they going to teach Paige how to flirt, seduce, extort and kill?

Nina used the Russian version of that technique.  E uses the American version. Dinner first, than sex. 

[Chaos Theory]

23 minutes ago, stagmania said:

Yeah I expected that to lead to something, but it didn't. If Paige actually put it together that her parents have sex with other people for their job, we would see a strong reaction. 

I do think that is kind of realistic to.  Paige is asking the right questions but falling short of putting the pieces together in some ways because these are her parents and who wants to see their parents having sex (which she has)?  So I can see a disconnect between that last vital piece.    I think Holly Taylor is playing the roll exceptionally well.  If anything I think the actor playing Misha is kinda falling short.  To me he has one expression and it never leaves his face.  

But I do agree thus seadon has been a little slower then the others.  Not bad.  Just slow.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[teddysmom]

The light bulb is slowly going off in Phillip's head about who exactly is screwing with wheat in Russia. Call your other wife Martha and ask HER how well the grocery stores are stocked in Moscow and where all that food is going.

[Ina123]

1 hour ago, shura said:

Is Elizabeth thinking that Pastor Tim would describe affairs with parishioners in his diary and leave it in a place easy enough for Paige to find? His wife could find it just as easily, and no matter how much trust there is between them, she would read it if she ever has any suspicion about him. Or maybe Elizabeth is thinking threesomes... Those condoms weren't for nothing!

The diary was way too easy to find. There wouldn't be anything too embarrassing in it. Maybe embarrassing things about church members since he just used initials.

[attica]

5 hours ago, Bama said:

Agent Wolfe (Stan's boss) 

Heh. He'll always be Agent Taub to me.

Kudos to Tara for her recap. She correctly identified the horror that is carob, and even more correctly advocated for Matthew Goode to appear on the show as a dude Philip has to seduce. Now that this idea has been planted, I don't think I can rest until it's realized.

I miiiiiight be wrong, but I think I owned the black acid-washed jeans that E was wearing as Brenda. Because why wouldn't I? They were stylin!

I wonder if Pastor Groovyhair ever takes off that stupid jacket.

[Ina123]

Maybe I didn't catch where the guy got the carob, but did Elizabeth eat a piece of carob from a supermarket floor?

[attica]

Well, a health food store. So: floor-dirt that's good for you! :)

[Sarah 103]

11 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

Man, I totally didn't see Stan manning up for Oleg. I didn't know they had that kind of relationship. 

I'm not surprised. There has always been a great deal of respect between Oleg and Stan. Each recognizes the mirror image of himself. They want to do good, but they are not ideological zealots like Elizabeth. Each one has personal limits, each one has a line he will not cross for the good of country. Related to that, is that when they feel thier country/agency is doing something wrong, they have no problem doing something illegal to set it right. 

11 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Are they really giving Henry a storyline?

I hope so. 

11 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I mean, I get why Paige is considered valuable to the Centre. She’s a US citizen and she’s connected to her parents. The Centre doesn’t know her personally. But usually spies are at least somewhat scoped out for having a natural affinity for this stuff and Paige is reading like 5 years below her grade level on this stuff at all times.

Henry, now, seems more like a normal teenager. He’s not even trying to hide stuff that much (he’s talking on the phone at home), he just doesn’t announce everything to his family (why even bother when they’re always focused on Paige?). However playfully suspicious Elizabeth is, he’s established enough “harmless” cred to skate by for a while and when asked about anything is quick with a “I don’t know.” Maybe he does have more than one girl on the hook and is stringing them along.

Meanwhile, I feel cheated out of a meeting with the math teacher. Maybe Henry’s staring at her boobs too much or something. Or running a cheating ring. Or dealing.

The Centre is so focused on Paige, because she's older, they are totally ignoring Henry, which is a big mistake. Henry would be far better at spy stuff. My guess is that the meeting with the math teacher will happen later this season. 

10 hours ago, Cosmosgravitation said:

I'm guessing Henry's math teacher will tell them he is mathematically gifted.  It'd fit with Henry's interest in computers and astronomy, and since his parents speculated he was failing the class we can be sure it won't be that, especially since Henry said he thought he was doing well.

I love this idea. It's a strong possibility too, because computers are referenced in the next episode title. 

8 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

If I had to guess what is going on with Henry, my current guess would be that his teacher has discovered he is a genius "savant" when it comes to math and the school wants to place Henry in some advanced math program and/or pave the way for Henry to attend some advanced university. That would bring a fair bit of attention to the family and  I bet that's just what they wanted. What do  you think?

Advanced university seems a bit much if they only subject he's advanced in is math. It wasn't the guidance counselor, which would indicate that he is stellar in all of his classes, it was the math teacher. Putting Henry in an honors/advanced math class makes the most sense to me.  

7 hours ago, Umbelina said:

They have no intention of teaching Paige to flirt, seduce, extort, or kill.  They are, or at least Elizabeth is, still deluding herself that Paige won't have to do any of that.

She won't. In theory, Paige is supposed to get a job like Stan's, and then pass information, documents, and what not to someone like Oleg, Philip, or Elizabeth. I thought the goal was that in the future Paige was going to be a contact, not an agent. 

7 hours ago, scartact said:

I dig the Stan/Oleg parallels.

The continual mention of Henry's math teacher is probably the closest to a real storyline that kid's gotten since season 2. I was wondering if it would amount to anything just because it felt like the writing was purposely drawing a lot of attention to it.

It's interesting seeing the different ways Stan and Oleg react to being in the same situation. I don't think they would bring up the math teacher twice, especially that he or she wants to meet in person if it wasn't going to amount to anything.  

28 minutes ago, attica said:

Kudos to Tara for her recap. She correctly identified the horror that is carob, and even more correctly advocated for Matthew Goode to appear on the show as a dude Philip has to seduce. Now that this idea has been planted, I don't think I can rest until it's realized.

I love the idea of Philip having to seduce a man. It was part of his training, but we've never seen him use it. 

My thoughts: Oleg can wear the hell out of a suit. The scenes in Russia have a distinctive look to them. It's almost like there's a slight blue tint. Has anyone else noticed this, and how do they achieve that look? 

In the car after the meeting with Gabriel, Philip had another great one-liner. "Think they'll fire us?" Humor is his defense mechanism. (Thanks to @DoubleUTeeEff for remembering the line)

Edited March 29, 2017 by Sarah 103

[DoubleUTeeEff]

10 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

 

Forgot to add—like the little touch of Henry throwing away his toast because it doesn’t have enough jam, like some pampered czar. There are little kids starving in post-war Siberia, Henry!

Yep, and Paige who is clued in, protests and tells him she would have eaten it.  I liked how they put a couple of instances of food waste in this episode.  The toast and also the carob at the health food store.  

7 hours ago, scartact said:

The scene where Phil and Liz try to opt out of Kansas was amusing. They're both gettin' too old for this shit, eh?

I laughed at loud at the opening when Philip says, "Think they'll fire us?"  Such a dry wit.

[dubbel zout]

2 hours ago, stagmania said:

I kept waiting for the lightbulb moment in that kitchen scene where Paige would realize that her mom is seducing the scientist. It stretches credibility for me a little that she hasn't figured this out yet; does she really think they just become friends with all these people?

I wouldn't want to think of my mother seducing other men, so I'm not surprised Paige doesn't want to think that. A little willful ignorance at the moment probably isn't a bad thing.

2 hours ago, stagmania said:

I'm kind of surprised to see the Centre overloading them again after already driving them to the brink once before.

Same here; I wish Gabriel had given Philip and Elizabeth a reason why it had to be them specifically. It sounds as if all they need is information.

1 hour ago, shura said:

Those condoms weren't for nothing!

I loved Paige's face when she saw those.

25 minutes ago, attica said:

the horror that is carob

Liking it is the best acting Elizabeth has ever done. Hee.

RE: Henry, the school sucks for not telling Elizabeth and Philip that it's not a disciplinary issue with Henry. I'm with those who think they'll be told Henry is gifted in math (and maybe other subjects).

Edited March 29, 2017 by dubbel zout

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

 I kind of like the idea that they've ignored Henry in favor of slavish devotion to Paige is coming back to bite them in the ass.

Yep. It'll be funny if Henry turns out to be the reason their cover gets blown.

Is Paige naive enough to try to get the pastor into a compromising position? I definitely don't think she'd try to sleep with him but might instead try make it seem like he was being inappropriate with her. That really would be the last straw for his wife.

[ChromaKelly]

Oleg/Russia - Poor Mama Oleg in the gulag. I'm also not quite following the Russian grocer storyline. The store manager doesn't get more profit because she has better products and more customers, it all goes to the government, right? Another week of "nothing better happen to my Oleg!" I felt a little sad that he thought Stan had betrayed him.
Stan - Kind of proud of him but I guess he's also trying to save his own ass. I could see P&E's spy-dar go off during that dinner with the new girlfriend.
Henry - Also curious if the phone call is about being gifted in math. Maybe next season Henry's going to be involved in War Games-ish hacking? Shall we play a game...
Paige/the Groovyhairs - The condoms could simply be for birth control. I was half-expecting Paige to steal one to use with Matthew. I do love how P&E are all no! No spying! And then E's like "unless...." Not sure if the diary is going to come back into play or not.
P&E - Philip was not on his game with Ms. Logistics. It did make me wonder what happens if a mark is unreachable? Like your personalities don't mix, they get the sexual preference wrong, mark is an introvert, etc. I thought the bedtime scene was the best of the episode. It really showcased both their personalities. I do think P likes the making friends aspect of the job but hates that he's using people. He was a little jealous of E that her mark is a nice, likeable guy and he's stuck with no-personality Logistics. E is all business and doesn't give a shit that he's fun.

Edited March 29, 2017 by ChromaKelly

[Sarah 103]

5 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I laughed at loud at the opening when Philip says, "Think they'll fire us?"  Such a dry wit.

I loved that too. Philip gets the best one-liners. 

5 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Same here; I wish Gabriel had given Philip and Elizabeth a reason why it had to be them specifically. It sounds as if all they need is information.

I agree. I get why they are the go to couple for the DC/DC Metro Area, which for this purpose I'm willing to say includes Baltimore, but aren't there agents on the West Coast who could handle this one? It would seem like it would draw attention to themselves. I know travel agents is a good cover for needing to be away from home, but there is a limit. 

[Bannon]

It's unfortunate that the writers decided to advance the plot by making P & E stupid, with regard to the wheat arc (if indeed it turns out that the U.S. Government is NOT trying to starve to death millions of Soviet citizens), because much more interesting paths were available. It would have been a lot more dramatically interesting for P & E to observe the obvious, that the wheat research was not well secured at all, for a project designed to kill millions of Soviets, and report back to Gabriel that The Centre likely has it all wrong, that the Midge-a-Palooza is much more likely to be normal research pertaining to agricultural pest control. It would have been a lot more credible for The Centre, being a typical clueless bureaucracy, to push back hard, really re-igniting old tensions between P & E and their bosses. Then, if they are forced to kill some schlub making an ill timed late night visit to his office, for what P & E know up front to be completely without purpose, the disgust with their professional lives could have immediately registered, and then intensified when Gabriel tells them to go pointlessly scthupp a couple citizens of Topeka. Instead, the writers remove P & E's powers of observation, and make them as stupid as their clueless bosses in Moscow. Yeah, we'll likely get to P & E realizing that the whole operation is misguided, with the subsequent disgust and further alienation, but it could have been done so much better.

Unless, of course, the United States government really is embarked upon a project to starve millions of Soviets with a midge attack, but then we get back to an old problem with this show, which is few American citizens having a three digit I.Q.. Well, Stan apparently may no longer have a two digit I.Q., so there's that. 

Edited March 29, 2017 by Bannon
spelling

[Sarah 103]

1 minute ago, ChromaKelly said:

Oleg/Russia - Another week of "nothing better happen to my Oleg!" I felt a little sad that he thought Stan had betrayed him.
Stan - Kind of proud of him but I guess he's also trying to save his own ass. I could see P&E's spy-dar go off during that dinner with the new girlfriend.

I agree with you about Oleg. I'm rooting so hard for Oleg to come out of this okay and alive it's a bit embarrassing. I have a hypothetical spin-off in my head. It will take place after this series ends. Oleg and Stan team up to fight international crime, sort of like a 1980s version of Man From U.N.C.L.E. Henry is part of it too as thier computer/gadget expert. 

[MargotWendice]

11 hours ago, Pickles said:

If Elizabeth told Paige that no one was home (during their talk in the kitchen), why did she turn the faucet on? In case Henry walked in? 

I thought they always did that when they were talking about private things--I assume it is in case the house is bugged.

[Pickles]

Just now, MargotWendice said:

I thought they always did that when they were talking about private things--I assume it is in case the house is bugged.

That was my first thought too, but Elizabeth and Philip speak pretty freely when the kids aren't around, don't they? 

[MargotWendice]

Just now, Pickles said:

That was my first thought too, but Elizabeth and Philip speak pretty freely when the kids aren't around, don't they? 

I thought they mostly spoke freely in the garage. I feel like I have seen them turn of the faucet to speak before, even when the kids weren't around. But I may just be making excuses for plot holes. :-)

[dubbel zout]

Maybe turning on the water was to make the point to Paige that she has to be more circumspect about what she says, even in the relative privacy of her own home.  I can't imagine Philip and Elizabeth don't sweep the house on a regular basis.

[sistermagpie]

10 hours ago, PinkRibbons said:

WHY THE HELL WOULD OLEG SHRUG AT THAT?

OH, HERE'S WHY. WHAT SHE ACTUALLY SAID WAS, "I don't know. He isn't in the house?"

I don't get why that wouldn't work with what the subtitles said. He asked where he was, the mom didn't know, so he shrugged like "Oh well?" I don't remember exactly how he shrugged but in both cases she's saying all she knows is he's not there, right?

11 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I kind of like the idea that they've ignored Henry in favor of slavish devotion to Paige is coming back to bite them in the ass.

And that's not even completely the spy thing. Paige has demanded the lion's share of attention from day one. A large percentage of her lines to Henry early on were to tell him to shut up even when a parent was there. She was getting a ton of attention just for being the church group etc. and always made sure every step was a drama.

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

It just seems odd to me that there is enough spying and infiltration to do that the center has all this infrastructure but they don't have any agents west of DC to send on this mission to Kansas. Are Elizabeth and Philip the only active agents left in the entire country?

All their infrastructure is on the east coast, which would make sense.

2 hours ago, benteen said:

Yeah, I thought Philip was going way too hard on this (maybe intentionally to get it over with) and him immediately asking her if she had a family was stupid and should have raised suspicions. 

 

I think Philip's phoning it in a bit on this one. He hardly wants another Martha to deal with, and that's what it would be. I would disagree with whoever said that Elizabeth is better at this. I think it was showing the difference, a bit, to the way they can work in terms of their genders (though not every case would follow the stereotypes). The guy was working on getting Elizabeth into bed the moment he helped her pick up the nuts. As far as he was concerned he was seducing her. Philip is going to have to spend more time showing interest in this woman as a person (as opposed to just being open to her flirting) to get her to be interested in him. 

 

2 hours ago, Dev F said:

I thought there was a suggestion that she does realize: the fact that Elizabeth never mentions the gender of the scientist she's getting to know, but Paige immediately assumes it's a man.

I think there's some simple sexism involved there. When Elizabeth says scientist Paige is going to picture a man. But beyond that yes, it probably will take Paige ages to make the connection to sex since she's still hesitatingly (oh so hesitatingly) asking if Elizabeth uses her real name. And also, there are other ways to get information from people. I don't think it's all that slow for her to not assume her parents are sleeping with people--the Soviets were, iirc, more fond of that tactic than a lot of spy agencies. (It's a slightly different thing than, like, getting pictures of someone with a hooker.) I half expected Elizabeth to say, in response of "Yes, Paige, I use my real name. Also I gave him my home phone number. If you answer the phone when he calls say you're the maid."

That was the other thing that seemed so different in the Henry scene, that it made me realize that a lot of the Paige scenes are like watching at half-speed. Some people have always said that the Paige scenes "stop the show dead" for them and I don't agree, but it did strike me here that the speed of Paige scenes is almost always directed by her slow, careful pace as she slowly takes in information and hesitantly brings it out and is generally vulnerable so that every line must carry this weight.

 I'm not describing it well because it's not like she always delivers her lines slowly, but like even with Pastor Tim there's like the moment where he seems to have to talk to Paige in that way. Only Henry just tells her to eat garbage and breezes out. LOL.

23 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

The Centre is so focused on Paige, because she's older, they are totally ignoring Henry, which is a big mistake. Henry would be far better at spy stuff. My guess is that the meeting with the math teacher will happen later this season. 

I hope it's soon. And I would guess it will be. If you're going to give us a heads-up about a parent/teacher meeting you're probably not going to do it several weeks in advance. I do love the idea that he's gifted. It totally makes sense. We've heard passing suggestions that he's a good student, but often doesn't want to study if he's not interested in things. That would be an interesting parallel to his parents who were also plucked out for the gifted program...

Plus I do like that he seems to have an active social life that there must be a focus to as well. It would actually make a lot of sense if they wanted to kick things into a higher gear to say yes, the Centre's been focused on Paige all this time because she's older so it's her time. But Henry might have actual skills that the Centre sees the way they saw those skills in his parents--socially adept, possibly gifted in important areas, secretive. Remember the Centre gave them a computer and people thought it had to have some meaning beyond them just seeing computers as being the future. That might lay the groundwork for that--that Henry is the kid they'd want to cultivate no matter who his parents were.

20 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Is Paige naive enough to try to get the pastor into a compromising position? I definitely don't think she'd try to sleep with him but might instead try make it seem like he was being inappropriate with her. That really would be the last straw for his wife.

That would be a quick way to blow their cover if she thinks Alice wouldn't go straight to the FBI.

13 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

I agree. I get why they are the go to couple for the DC/DC Metro Area, which for this purpose I'm willing to say includes Baltimore, but aren't there agents on the West Coast who could handle this one? It would seem like it would draw attention to themselves. I know travel agents is a good cover for needing to be away from home, but there is a limit. 

There's no reason they'd have agents on the West Coast. They're probably not stealing from Silicon Valley and what else is there for Russian spies?

5 minutes ago, Pickles said:

That was my first thought too, but Elizabeth and Philip speak pretty freely when the kids aren't around, don't they? 

Yes, we decided they must sweep for bugs. There's nothing in that conversation the Centre couldn't hear anyway--not any more than most conversations they have with Paige.  They turn on the faucet when the kids are in the house but nobody else was home in this scene. So I think it was Elizabeth training Paige in this sort of thing.

Edited March 29, 2017 by sistermagpie

[EtheltoTillie]

So maybe Henry is an early computer genius. He will grow up to be a hacker and recruited by the Soviets. Eventually he will mastermind the stealing of the 2016 election. LOL. 

[Bannon]

5 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

 

 

 

There's no reason they'd have agents on the West Coast. They're probably not stealing from Silicon Valley and what else is there for Russian spies?

 

A very large percentage of the American weapons industry, especially aerospace, was and is located in Southern California. There are a lot of reasons to have agents on the West Coast.

[Sarah 103]

8 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

It would actually make a lot of sense if they wanted to kick things into a higher gear to say yes, the Centre's been focused on Paige all this time because she's older so it's her time. But Henry might have actual skills that the Centre sees the way they saw those skills in his parents--socially adept, possibly gifted in important areas, secretive. Remember the Centre gave them a computer and people thought it had to have some meaning beyond them just seeing computers as being the future. That might lay the groundwork for that--that Henry is the kid they'd want to cultivate no matter who his parents were.

There's no reason they'd have agents on the West Coast. They're probably not stealing from Silicon Valley and what else is there for Russian spies?

I like the idea of the Centre doing a bait and switch. This whole time they wanted Philip and Elizabeth to think they were interested in Paige and planning to recuit her, when in fact Henry was really the one they were interested in all along. Another version is that The Centre thought they wanted Paige, then realized thier mistake and decided that Henry was the better target. 

Much of the Aerospace industry was on the West Coast, especially during the 1960s. I don't think that all vanished during/by the 1980s. It would make sense to have agents there to check out the factories, research facilities, and the scientists/engineers. 

[sistermagpie]

1 minute ago, Sarah 103 said:

I like the idea of the Centre doing a bait and switch. This whole time they wanted Philip and Elizabeth to think they were interested in Paige and planning to recuit her, when in fact Henry was really the one they were interested in all along. Another version is that The Centre thought they wanted Paige, then realized thier mistake and decided that Henry was the better target. 

 

I doubt they actually had a way of knowing in advance--it's funny, now I think about it, because even early on whenever it came down to the kids' abilities Philip would praise Paige and then say Henry was...a kid, but someday... Like nobody could know what he'd be like yet because he was still young.

But yeah, I think it would be really interesting if they went a different way with Henry and said look, this kid has actual skills that we want and also, unlike Paige, making him a spy wouldn't be the same kind of constant working against her nature.

8 minutes ago, Bannon said:

A very large percentage of the American weapons industry, especially aerospace, was and is located in Southern California. There are a lot of reasons to have agents on the West Coast.

 

2 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

Much of the Aerospace industry was on the West Coast, especially during the 1960s. I don't think that all vanished during/by the 1980s. It would make sense to have agents there to check out the factories, research facilities, and the scientists/engineers. 

D'oh! You're totally right. And I should have remembered that immediately given that I just re-watched the Mad Men episodes that deal with that!

[Bannon]

6 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I doubt they actually had a way of knowing in advance--it's funny, now I think about it, because even early on whenever it came down to the kids' abilities Philip would praise Paige and then say Henry was...a kid, but someday... Like nobody could know what he'd be like yet because he was still young.

But yeah, I think it would be really interesting if they went a different way with Henry and said look, this kid has actual skills that we want and also, unlike Paige, making him a spy wouldn't be the same kind of constant working against her nature.

 

D'oh! You're totally right. And I should have remembered that immediately given that I just re-watched the Mad Men episodes that deal with that!

Texas, of course, is also chock-full with defense contracting and weapons research, so the Soviets woud have plenty of reason to have assets there as well, much closer to Kansas. 

[Ellaria]

54 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

When Elizabeth says scientist Paige is going to picture a man. But beyond that yes, it probably will take Paige ages to make the connection to sex since she's still hesitatingly (oh so hesitatingly) asking if Elizabeth uses her real name. And also, there are other ways to get information from people. I don't think it's all that slow for her to not assume her parents are sleeping with people--the Soviets were, iirc, more fond of that tactic than a lot of spy agencies. (It's a slightly different thing than, like, getting pictures of someone with a hooker.) I half expected Elizabeth to say, in response of "Yes, Paige, I use my real name. Also I gave him my home phone number. If you answer the phone when he calls say you're the maid."

That was the other thing that seemed so different in the Henry scene, that it made me realize that a lot of the Paige scenes are like watching at half-speed. Some people have always said that the Paige scenes "stop the show dead" for them and I don't agree, but it did strike me here that the speed of Paige scenes is almost always directed by her slow, careful pace as she slowly takes in information and hesitantly brings it out and is generally vulnerable so that every line must carry this weight.

 I'm not describing it well because it's not like she always delivers her lines slowly, but like even with Pastor Tim there's like the moment where he seems to have to talk to Paige in that way. Only Henry just tells her to eat garbage and breezes out. LOL.

Well-said.

Based on Paige's "do you use your own names" question, I'll say that assuming Mom and Dad are exchanging sex for secrets is probably not top of mind for her. That question just seemed a tad naive. Maybe its easy for me to say that when I'm sitting home in a comfy chair not facing these possibilities as a 16-year-old.

It is the Paige-Elizabeth scenes that slow down the show for me. I don't see how this ends up in a good place. There are a lot of confused and conflicted feelings beneath the surface for both characters and, frankly, it drives me crazy. It makes me want to throw things at my TV.

The best line of the night was Henry telling Paige to eat garbage. A bit rude but entertaining.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Ellaria Sand

[sistermagpie]

1 minute ago, Ellaria Sand said:

The best line of the night was Henry telling Paige to eat garbage. A bit rude, yes but entertaining.

And a nice call-back to Tuan saying he ate garbage off the street. Because yes, Henry was being the more selfish of the two by throwing out the toast, but it's not like Paige actually would take it out of the garbage to eat it.

[teddysmom]

  12 HOURS AGO, AIMINGFORYOKO SAID:

Quote

Man, I totally didn't see Stan manning up for Oleg. I didn't know they had that kind of relationship. 

I'm not surprised. There has always been a great deal of respect between Oleg and Stan. Each recognizes the mirror image of himself.

 

This is actually pretty true IRL re US & Soviet agents.- the actual working agents have respect for each other  to a point,  the US knew Russian agents were a lot better at certain types of trade craft than we are. 

And what Oleg did was pretty stand up.  A lot of times agents are put in positions by superiors who don't really see who's going to be hurt by a country's shenanigans. Kinda like this whole wheat thing. Phillip & Elizabeth are on a wild goose chase. The Russian government & oligarchy is starving their people, not the US. 

[SunnyBeBe]

11 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Maybe I'm missing something, but all I saw with Stan's move is Stan trying to save his own ass.  Oleg knows a lot more about Stan than just Vlad's murder.  If they push Oleg, he's likely to tell the CIA everything Stan was really up to with Nina, and with him.

I thought it was a clever move on his part, lead with the least treasonous thing he's done that Oleg knows about, try to stop the Oleg coercion to save his own ass.  Am I missing something?

Right.  When Stan was listening to his partner talk about the dirt the FBI held over this one guy he knew to get him to turn, Stan seemed in deep thought. Was Stan thinking of that possibly happening to Oleg OR HIMSELF? 

Okay.  Am I reading too much into this scene or what.  I was going to write off Stan's girlfriend as just that. However, did you catch her response to what her uncle did in Pittsburgh?  Something about collecting old radios, equipment, etc.  Something about the way she said it.  Am I reading too much into it?  

I agree with some about Henry.  He'll be a super gifted kid who has an opportunity to attend a special school in CA.  (Boarding school)  That's my suspicion.  What a relief.  Then, the Jennings will have one less responsibility in the home.  But, Henry's expertise could be used for the motherland, right? Maybe, one day. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

The Americans Head For Kansas To Find Fake Love With The Lonelyhearts Of Agricorp

While her parents ply their trade(craft) in Topeka, Paige freelances with an op chez Groovyhair.

[SunnyBeBe]

Thanks.  It  reminded me of one of my favorite lines from this episode by Elizabeth, when she said, "Who knows what that so called good Pastor is really up to."  lol  I wonder if she ever really got a weird vibe from him that time she sort of got him alone for some conversations? Recall at the church in his office?  I wondered then what she was doing....just testing the water to see how flirty or personal he might get. 

[ferretrick]

"all this closeness between Paige and Elizabeth is heading toward a plot where Elizabeth sends Paige to seduce Pastor Groovyhair, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE UPSET, and yet Elizabeth's not wrong, IT WOULD BE INTERESTING"

OH God, I hope not. The Kimmy storyline with Philip was bad enough and almost made me quit watching the show; I do not want to see a teenage girl sent to seduce an older man by her own mother. That is not entertainment.

[Chaos Theory]

2 minutes ago, ferretrick said:

"all this closeness between Paige and Elizabeth is heading toward a plot where Elizabeth sends Paige to seduce Pastor Groovyhair, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE UPSET, and yet Elizabeth's not wrong, IT WOULD BE INTERESTING"

OH God, I hope not. The Kimmy storyline with Philip was bad enough and almost made me quit watching the show; I do not want to see a teenage girl sent to seduce an older man by her own mother. That is not entertainment.

Maybe not actually seduce him.  Maybe just be overly friendly and then have Elizabeth or one of their socialist friends whispering into Pastor Tim's wife's increasing jealous ear.  "Hey The Pastor and Paige are getting really close.  Paige is growing up reall pretty".   I really would be interesting if Paige does kinda sorta honeytrap Pastor Tim and his wife and kind of sad considering how good they have been to her.  I mean Karl Marx.  He gave her a book by Karl Marx so she could understand her mother.  He must be destroyed!!!!!!!

[Bannon]

23 minutes ago, ferretrick said:

"all this closeness between Paige and Elizabeth is heading toward a plot where Elizabeth sends Paige to seduce Pastor Groovyhair, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE UPSET, and yet Elizabeth's not wrong, IT WOULD BE INTERESTING"

OH God, I hope not. The Kimmy storyline with Philip was bad enough and almost made me quit watching the show; I do not want to see a teenage girl sent to seduce an older man by her own mother. That is not entertainment.

Not only that, it would be really stupid for E to do that, what with the Pastor's wife being aware of the Soviet connection (frankly, I can barely suspend disbelief of that, in and of itself). The risk would be just incredible, and for what purpose? I'm critical of this show (mostly because  I think there are elements which are terrific, and the potential isn't being fulfilled), but I don't think the writers would make a misstep that large.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Bannon
spelling

[scartact]

8 hours ago, Kathemy said:

However, this is where I have to apply suspension of disbelief. Realistically, after all they've been through I think Elizabeth and Philip would've been pulled off front line duty long ago. Especially given the prospects for their children. They'd possibly be managing junior agents, like Gabe does. Their experience and knowledge is far too valuable to waste on an operation gone wrong.

Makes you wonder if Philip and Elizabeth thought about opportunities for growth within the agency when they first joined! Is there a ladder they could move up, from from tailing people a la Hans (RIP) to honeytraps and planting listening devices in sensitive locations, and y'know, all the killing inbetween, to finally managing their own set of spies so they can hang back more? Now I'm just thinking about the KGB spy infrastructure.

5 hours ago, shura said:

I don't understand it either. Stan is not even saving his own ass by coming clean, he is likely to suffer the same consequences no matter how the Deputy AG learns about Vlad. And how is this a good way to protect Oleg anyway? "If you push on Oleg, I am going to go public with what I did. Huge scandal!" Sure, but you will have to do it during your trial, Stan, at which the US will show that you committed a horrible crime, got caught and are being punished for it, so justice is being served the way it's supposed to be. Scandal, yes, but shit happens, it's not like the reasonable world is going to learn and start believing that the FBI has a program of killing foreign diplomats there. Just a rogue criminal, that's all. Sorry about that, USSR.

Stan really is doing a whole suicide mission thing wrt to Oleg. I'm not sure if it's a calculated enough risk either for the CIA.

[Bannon]

1 minute ago, Chaos Theory said:

Maybe not actually seduce him.  Maybe just be overly friendly and then have Elizabeth or one of their socialist friends whispering into Pastor Tim's wife's increasing jealous ear.  "Hey The Pastor and Paige are getting really close.  Paige is growing up reall pretty".   I really would be interesting if Paige does kinda sorta honeytrap Pastor Tim and his wife and kind of sad considering how good they have been to her.  I mean Karl Marx.  He gave her a book by Karl Marx so she could understand her mother.  He must be destroyed!!!!!!!

What would be the purpose of this trap, with the accompanying risk of a jealous wife's knowledge of E & P's illegal status?