S05.E21: Introducing Mr. & Mrs. Schwartz

[glowbug]

On 3/29/2017 at 1:25 PM, ghoulina said:

Ariana has always been pretty clear that she doesn't see herself getting married or having kids. People can certainly change their minds on that, but I do not think she's there yet. May never be. I did wonder, in that moment, if the whole thing would end up being a deal breaker. 

I think they were both being really emotional because....alcohol. Well, and Tom is emotional always. 

Ariana is 31 years old. While it's possible she'll change her mind, most people I know started feeling their biological clock ticking in their late 20s and that's when they had a change of heart about kids (if they didn't want them before). While I know it can happen much later (I've heard of people in their late 30s and early 40s suddenly feeling the desire for kids) I think the older you get after your mid to late 20s the less likely you are to change your mind. As I've said, I am not a fan of Ariana in general but I really respect her for coming out and saying she doesn't want marriage and kids. So many women feel pressured to pretend it's what they want even when they don't. And good for her for recognizing that it's not for her and staying firm. There's also a lot of pressure to not just have kids but also to want to have kids and truly parenthood isn't for everyone. I hope that if it's truly not what she wants that she stays firm in her decision because having kids to make someone else happy is not a good idea. 

Edited April 3, 2017 by glowbug

[MVFrostsMyPie]

Haha I totally have a playlist called Yacht Rock on spotify. It originated from when I used to go sailing more often, and it was a joke between me and my friends. Now and then I play it (on land) for nostalgic humorous memories. Plus the songs are so fun to sing along to, with all the cheesiness. 

[Sun-Bun]

5 hours ago, glowbug said:

Ariana is 31 years old. While it's possible she'll change her mind, most people I know started feeling their biological clock ticking in their late 20s and that's when they had a change of heart about kids (if they didn't want them before). I know it can happen much later (I've heard of people in their late 30s and early 40s suddenly feeling the desire for kids) I think the older you get after you're mid to late 20s the less likely you are to change your mind. As I've said, I am not a fan of Ariana in general but I really respect her for coming out and saying she doesn't want marriage and kids. So many women feel pressured to pretend it's what they want even when they don't. And good for her for recognizing that it's not for her and staying firm. There's also a lot of pressure to not just have kids but want to have kids and truly parenthood isn't for everyone. I hope that if it's truly not what she wants that she stays firm in her decision because having kids to make someone else happy is not a good idea. 

I do applaud Ariana for having the most seemingly mature outlook of this entire cast---it's completely okay to not want the marriage/children scenario and it's so damned refreshing to see that normality presented on a reality show((because lord knows we get enough pro-natal bullshit thrown at us on almost every other reality show)).

What I don't appreciate is seeing people like Lisa Vanderpump trying to talk her out of her views and questioning why she doesn't care to procreate; that scene with her badgering Ariana at the horse barns about it really bugged me---Ariana's feelings are quite valid and it's completely fine if not everyone feels the need to breed! Maybe I'm extra sensitive to her situation just because I myself knew from a very young age that *I* never wanted children either. And I dealt with many similarly confused older females badgering me the same way Vanderpump drilled Adriana, but I always stood firm, even broke up a few relationships over my refusal to have kids, and am quite happily ChildFree with a husband who gladly supports my views on that.

Which brings me to Sandoval's talking head of him giddily describing having a family with Adriana. I *really* hope she stands firm with her views and doesn't string him along with any false hopes of fatherhood. Hopefully they've had intelligent discussions about their future together and the issue of her likely not changing her mind on parenthood. Is it a deal-breaker for him? If she truly loves the dude, she needs to be up front with him about that and be willing to let him go if he truly desires children one day.

Because speaking as the daughter of a deadbeat dad, wayyyy too many folks ambivalently go into parenthood just to satisfy their partner's wishes, and the ones who end up suffering the most from these scenarios are always the children.

[Juliegirlj]

So many of the female cast seems to have baby fever- Stassi has always said she wants to get married and have kids, Katie and Tom have been mentioning it, now Kristin is tracking her ovulation, and Scheana claims she and Shay were planning on kids in the near future- Arianna likes to go against the grain, so, who knows if her no marriage no kids thing is for real, or not. Sandoval totally seems like he would be a good father and husband, so they may need to have some soul searching soon. 

I have two close friends that thought they didn't want kids, and they both regret it now, but it is too late. 

Wonder when Pandora and Jason are going to give LVP a grand baby ?!

[teapot]

I have a theory about why Arianna doesn't like Stassi.  Part of it is probably that Sandoval's not crazy about her (but I feel like if Arianna was cool with her, he'd be okay.  Guys are more laid-back like that, their grudges aren't always for life.) I think she's so into her shtick as Princess Aboveitall that she can't possibly like the "popular girl"...as in, Katie & Kristen kind of follow Stassi around, and Scheana falls in & out with them, but she seems to crave their approval.

Amazing Arianna is much too cool to want to be accepted.

[The Mighty Peanut]

2 hours ago, Juliegirlj said:

So many of the female cast seems to have baby fever- Stassi has always said she wants to get married and have kids, Katie and Tom have been mentioning it, now Kristin is tracking her ovulation, and Scheana claims she and Shay were planning on kids in the near future- Arianna likes to go against the grain, so, who knows if her no marriage no kids thing is for real, or not. Sandoval totally seems like he would be a good father and husband, so they may need to have some soul searching soon. 

I have two close friends that thought they didn't want kids, and they both regret it now, but it is too late. 

Wonder when Pandora and Jason are going to give LVP a grand baby ?!

I think LVP is asking herself (and Pandora) that same question. "Dahling, can I just buy you a baby? Kim Richards has a grandchild and I don't, dahling. I must vociferously protest." (LVP loves the word vociferously).

Edited March 30, 2017 by The Mighty Peanut

[jaync]

Quote

I think so. As they were walking out he whispered, "tonight may be the night" (or something like that) and she responded, "I'm not ovulating!" Lord, help me. 

Help us all.

In her scene with Lisa, Scheana's triangle head was looking especially flat on top. That thing could double as an end table.

[Inspectabecky]

12 hours ago, teapot said:

I have a theory about why Arianna doesn't like Stassi.  Part of it is probably that Sandoval's not crazy about her (but I feel like if Arianna was cool with her, he'd be okay.  Guys are more laid-back like that, their grudges aren't always for life.) I think she's so into her shtick as Princess Aboveitall that she can't possibly like the "popular girl"...as in, Katie & Kristen kind of follow Stassi around, and Scheana falls in & out with them, but she seems to crave their approval.

Amazing Arianna is much too cool to want to be accepted.

 I totally agree with this. At the end of season 2 when Stassi exiled Kristen, her and Ariana seemed to get along,  with Stassi even telling her she had her back in the whole Vegas kiss scandal. 

 I didn't connect the dots till reading your post but one thing that used to annoy me about Tom was his mysterious hatred for Stassi,  so no doubt that's rubbed off. He used to repeat the same cocky speech on pumped podcast like "have you ever noticed i'm not in any scenes w her anymore, she knows I would absolutely DESTROY her!" which was met with nervous laughter instead of asking what the fuck do you care about her?? At that time he was the ex-boyfriend of her friend, why was he so invested and why would it be weird that they didn't have scenes together? He's so extra lol

[JenE4]

13 hours ago, Inspectabecky said:

 I totally agree with this. At the end of season 2 when Stassi exiled Kristen, her and Ariana seemed to get along,  with Stassi even telling her she had her back in the whole Vegas kiss scandal. 

 I didn't connect the dots till reading your post but one thing that used to annoy me about Tom was his mysterious hatred for Stassi,  so no doubt that's rubbed off. He used to repeat the same cocky speech on pumped podcast like "have you ever noticed i'm not in any scenes w her anymore, she knows I would absolutely DESTROY her!" which was met with nervous laughter instead of asking what the fuck do you care about her?? At that time he was the ex-boyfriend of her friend, why was he so invested and why would it be weird that they didn't have scenes together? He's so extra lol

I think it's because Stassi gets the coven cackling. Everyone got along nicely when Stassi was out of the picture, then she swoops back in and suddenly people aren't "allowed" to be friends with other people. If Stassi weren't around, I bet Ariana would have been a bridesmaid. I think Ariana and Katie were friends (or at least friendly) until Stassi came in and was jealous of Katie being friends with anyone but herself and Kristin. Stassi broke up their little double dating pack with TomTom. Maybe there's some other issue with Katie that I'm not recalling, but it seems like it's all because Stassi told Katie that Arianna shouldn't be friends with LaLa, and Ariana was just like I'll be friends with whomever I want, and Stassi (and Kristin) would just not let it go. Then Katie just took Stassi's side and distanced herself from Ariana. Scheana also got swept up in that and she was like a ping pong ball of emotions over which "side" she could be on; Ariana was just, oh, you don't want to be friends with me if I talk to LaLa? This isn't grade school. Bye, girl. In addition, I think Sandoval also still takes Jax's side, despite EVERYTHING they've all been through. 

[Alison]

On ‎3‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 8:27 PM, itainttippithebird said:

Would just like to add to the Amber Valletta convo that she was FIRST famous in the mid-90s as a model/it girl, along side Shalom Harlow, Alec Wek, Chloe Sevigny, etc. The funny thing about being "too old" to know the reference is she's probably best known among 35-45 year old women who watched House of Style and were into Anna Sui, Todd Oldham, Betsy Johnson in the 90s and then secondarily known to 20-25 year olds who know her more recent acting jobs. In the parlance of Who Weekly, she was a 90s Them who is now a solid Who.

 

It's almost like answering "who is Luke Perry?" by saying he's the dad on Riverdale - it's not a too old or too young question, but a matter of generationally different reference points?

Tens of people want to know if Amber Valletta is a Who or Them ;)

[teapot]

On ‎3‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 8:27 PM, itainttippithebird said:

It's almost like answering "who is Luke Perry?" by saying he's the dad on Riverdale - it's not a too old or too young question, but a matter of generationally different reference points?

he was Nina's husband who got cheated on in Windfall! which was not at all a good show, but, oh, how I loved it...

[ghoulina]

2 hours ago, JenE4 said:

Stassi broke up their little double dating pack with TomTom. Maybe there's some other issue with Katie that I'm not recalling, but it seems like it's all because Stassi told Katie that Arianna shouldn't be friends with LaLa, and Ariana was just like I'll be friends with whomever I want, and Stassi (and Kristin) would just not let it go. Then Katie just took Stassi's side and distanced herself from Ariana.

While it's shitty to tell one friend who they can and cannot be friends with, Lala was SUPER nasty to Katie and I don't know if I could overlook my friends being friends with someone like that. Katie is a bitch, so whatever. But from her perspective, with all the fat shaming and flirting with her fiance, I get it. I never really understood Ariana's friendship with Lala anyhow. Like, THAT'S who you're going to take a stand about? Ariana prides herself on being so smart and laid back, and Lala seems like the last person she'd be friends with. 

[JenE4]

2 hours ago, ghoulina said:

While it's shitty to tell one friend who they can and cannot be friends with, Lala was SUPER nasty to Katie and I don't know if I could overlook my friends being friends with someone like that. Katie is a bitch, so whatever. But from her perspective, with all the fat shaming and flirting with her fiance, I get it. I never really understood Ariana's friendship with Lala anyhow. Like, THAT'S who you're going to take a stand about? Ariana prides herself on being so smart and laid back, and Lala seems like the last person she'd be friends with. 

These people are all pretty terrible (not you, Sandoval!), so I can't believe I'm "defending" anyone--especially LaLa of all people, lol--but they were mean to LaLa first. From the minute she started they accused her of being a prostitute. And, okay, maybe they were right that her big trip to France (or wherever) was going to be as a paid date of some guy and not a modeling gig. But from day 1, they put Kristin Dote, P.I., on the case, investigating leads from other acquaintances to figure out who she's dating and who's giving her money, etc. I realize all that intensified after she called Katie fat. But it wasn't like they were all friends until LaLa made an insensitive comment on Katie's weight. I'm not really an "eye for an eye" kind of person, but if someone spent an entire year accusing me of being a prostitute and trying to gather evidence of such and I looked like LaLa, I'd throw it in Katie's face that her chubby ass is jealous and I'll waive my usual charges and sleep with her man for FREE! Lol!

Edited March 31, 2017 by JenE4

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, JenE4 said:

These people are all pretty terrible (not you, Sandoval!), so I can't believe I'm "defending" anyone--especially LaLa of all people, lol--but they were mean to LaLa first. From the minute she started they accused her of being a prostitute. And, okay, maybe they were right that her big trip to France (or wherever) was going to be as a paid date of some guy and not a modeling gig. But from day 1, they put Kristin Dote, P.I., on the case, investigating leads from other acquaintances to figure out who she's dating and who's giving her money, etc. I realize all that intensified after she called Katie fat. But it wasn't like they were all friends until LaLa made an insensitive comment on Katie's weight. I'm not really an "eye for an eye" kind of person, but if someone spent an entire year accusing me of being a prostitute and trying to gather evidence of such and I looked like LaLa, I'd throw it in Katie's face that her chubby ass is jealous and I'll waive my usual charges and sleep with her man for FREE! Lol!

That's not totally true. They called Lala out on her "modeling job" in Italy. Given that Schwartz was still doing some modeling work, he especially was fairly skeptical of a company paying thousands of dollars to fly her to Italy because she's not special or famous enough to justify that expense. Yes, Katie and Scheana called her a prostitute, but after that the girls apologized and largely left her alone. Scheana even invited Lala over for that slumber party in season 4 when the boys went to Vegas for Peter's birthday and came back with ass tattoos. Scheana, Ariana, Katie, Lala, and Faith hung out at Scheana's place, got drunk, and made out with each other.

In season 4, Lala had her Pump Rules: The Next Generation squad of Max, James, and Faith. Except for the odd group hang, Lala kept to her crew. When she did interact with the oldsters, it was largely Jax and Scheana. Scheana, Lala, and Faith went bikini shopping for Hawaii. The only person really digging into who Lala was dating in her first season was James because Lala was periodically hooking up with her ex, Hayes Pullard, making out with James, and flirting with Jax before Brittany moved to LA. And on one occasion, toss Hayes' salad and meet up with James and make out with him.

The reality is that Katie only had the beginning of a feud with Lala at the end of season 4, but Brittany full on didn't trust Lala because of how Jax misrepresented the mutuality of the Jax/Lala flirtation. Towards the last couple of weeks of filming Lala had started to reveal herself to be a complete asshole. Apparently during the Hawaii trip, Lala had started some off her flirting with Schwartz. Very little of it was captured on camera. This was around the time that she pulled a knife on Faith. Lala had also irritated Katie and Kristen at the engagement party. This is where I really feel like the vendetta was born.

But it's not true that the coven spent time in season 4 stalking Lala and trying to ruin her life. Stassi even hung out with Lala once or twice during season 4 and they got along. In fact the first time Lala and Kristen met at some club, James flipped out because Kristen and Lala got along really well. The vitriol we see in season 5 is the result of all of Lala's behavior that starts to pop up at the end of season 4. Lala got a heroes edit in season 4. The rest of them really started digging into Lala's life after the season 4 reunion.

Edited March 31, 2017 by HunterHunted

[njbchlover]

On 3/28/2017 at 9:49 PM, ParadoxLost said:

I think its a show device.  But I tend to think they will make the opening of the restaurant a story line and won't make much progress when the show isn't filming.

I think it may be a thinly veiled attempt to give LvP cover on having all her "fired" employees better integrated in the show.  One thing Tom Tom will have over SUR will be that Stassi and Kristen will hang out there vs making a show of never going to SUR or having super awkward dinners in Stassi's case.  I wouldn't be surprised if they hire James as a DJ.

TomTom is a solution to not having a Katie/Schwartz wedding as an excuse for Stassi and Kristen to be on the show.

Sort of like the Island of Misfit Toys from the Christmas show, Rudoplph the Red-Nosed Reindeer??   ;-)

Edited April 1, 2017 by njbchlover

[JenE4]

17 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

That's not totally true. They called Lala out on her "modeling job" in Italy. Given that Schwartz was still doing some modeling work, he especially was fairly skeptical of a company paying thousands of dollars to fly her to Italy because she's not special or famous enough to justify that expense. Yes, Katie and Scheana called her a prostitute, but after that the girls apologized and largely left her alone. Scheana even invited Lala over for that slumber party in season 4 when the boys went to Vegas for Peter's birthday and came back with ass tattoos. Scheana, Ariana, Katie, Lala, and Faith hung out at Scheana's place, got drunk, and made out with each other.

In season 4, Lala had her Pump Rules: The Next Generation squad of Max, James, and Faith. Except for the odd group hang, Lala kept to her crew. When she did interact with the oldsters, it was largely Jax and Scheana. Scheana, Lala, and Faith went bikini shopping for Hawaii. The only person really digging into who Lala was dating in her first season was James because Lala was periodically hooking up with her ex, Hayes Pullard, making out with James, and flirting with Jax before Brittany moved to LA. And on one occasion, toss Hayes' salad and meet up with James and make out with him.

The reality is that Katie only had the beginning of a feud with Lala at the end of season 4, but Brittany full on didn't trust Lala because of how Jax misrepresented the mutuality of the Jax/Lala flirtation. Towards the last couple of weeks of filming Lala had started to reveal herself to be a complete asshole. Apparently during the Hawaii trip, Lala had started some off her flirting with Schwartz. Very little of it was captured on camera. This was around the time that she pulled a knife on Faith. Lala had also irritated Katie and Kristen at the engagement party. This is where I really feel like the vendetta was born.

But it's not true that the coven spent time in season 4 stalking Lala and trying to ruin her life. Stassi even hung out with Lala once or twice during season 4 and they got along. In fact the first time Lala and Kristen met at some club, James flipped out because Kristen and Lala got along really well. The vitriol we see in season 5 is the result of all of Lala's behavior that starts to pop up at the end of season 4. Lala got a heroes edit in season 4. The rest of them really started digging into Lala's life after the season 4 reunion.

Wow, Hunter, how'd you get all that off-camera scoop?! LaLa pulled a knife on Faith?! What the--?! More details, please!

[HunterHunted]

3 hours ago, JenE4 said:

Wow, Hunter, how'd you get all that off-camera scoop?! LaLa pulled a knife on Faith?! What the--?! More details, please!

That came out in a podcast. It was either Pumped Podcast or Bitch Bible. I think it was because Faith told James that Lala had been eating Hayes' ass out earlier in the day? Weekend?, but after Lala and James had made out.

[dosodog]

On Friday, March 31, 2017 at 0:59 PM, ghoulina said:

While it's shitty to tell one friend who they can and cannot be friends with, Lala was SUPER nasty to Katie and I don't know if I could overlook my friends being friends with someone like that. Katie is a bitch, so whatever. But from her perspective, with all the fat shaming and flirting with her fiance, I get it. I never really understood Ariana's friendship with Lala anyhow. Like, THAT'S who you're going to take a stand about? Ariana prides herself on being so smart and laid back, and Lala seems like the last person she'd be friends with. 

Maybe Ariana and Sandavol rolled the dice on how much screen time Lala was going to get this season and wanted to be included.  In getting more screen time.

[b2H]

I don't remember it's being said here, but it occurred to me I need to give Katie's dress a shout-out.  I really liked it.  It was good for her figure, it wasn't over the top, and it was just interesting to me as something different.  No Pnina Stripper-Fairy dress for her, and that worked for me.

[ghoulina]

1 hour ago, dosodog said:

Maybe Ariana and Sandavol rolled the dice on how much screen time Lala was going to get this season and wanted to be included.  In getting more screen time.

Possibly, but Sandoval is best friends with the guy getting married this season, so I don't see why he'd think LALA would get him more screen time than Schwartz. I think it might have been a case of Ariana intentionally wanting to be friends with the person everyone else was on the outs with. She strikes me as the person to be contrary just for the sake of being contrary. I do think Sandoval had a real friendship with James, though, prior to him getting a real role on this show. And Sandoval is the kind of person who always gives second chances and roots for the underdog and wants to help people - we've seen it with Jax, and with Shay. It just feels less genuine coming from Ariana. 

[dosodog]

Maybe he wanted more than just his Schwartz scenes!  The guy does love his camera time. Interacting with Lala when no one else will gives him more storyline. 

I do like your Ariana theory.  

[bethster2000]

On 3/28/2017 at 10:29 AM, janie2002 said:

This is why the divorce rate is so high, couple always think it's not us we will make it. 

I've been married for 21 years this May.  I have a very happy marriage.  However, here's the thing: even if you are happy, marriage is hard work.

[teapot]

40 minutes ago, bethster2000 said:

I've been married for 21 years this May.  I have a very happy marriage.  However, here's the thing: even if you are happy, marriage is hard work.

*high-five*  TWENTY-EIGHT YEARS in December, to my HS SWEETHEART!!!  he's my favorite person in the world but not a day goes by that I don't think of strangling him...

Edited April 10, 2017 by teapot

[ghoulina]

55 minutes ago, teapot said:

*high-five*  TWENTY-EIGHT YEARS in December, to my HS SWEETHEART!!!  he's my favorite person in the world but not a day goes by that I don't think of strangling him...

LOL. Thank you for your honesty. Only 11 years here, but I can agree that with people who say there is a very fine line between love and hate. And yes, even if it's a good, solid, stable, happy marriage - you have to WORK at it. 

[bethster2000]

I say I have "very happy marriage..."

It's just to The Single Most Annoying Man Who Ever Walked The Earth ;-)

[ghoulina]

16 hours ago, bethster2000 said:

 

I say I have "very happy marriage..."

It's just to The Single Most Annoying Man Who Ever Walked The Earth ;-)

 

I'm not sure how this is possible. 

Unless my husband has a secret wife in another state. ;)

[Jextella]

On 3/28/2017 at 8:49 PM, ParadoxLost said:

I think its a show device.  But I tend to think they will make the opening of the restaurant a story line and won't make much progress when the show isn't filming.

I think it may be a thinly veiled attempt to give LvP cover on having all her "fired" employees better integrated in the show.  One thing Tom Tom will have over SUR will be that Stassi and Kristen will hang out there vs making a show of never going to SUR or having super awkward dinners in Stassi's case.  I wouldn't be surprised if they hire James as a DJ.

TomTom is a solution to not having a Katie/Schwartz wedding as an excuse for Stassi and Kristen to be on the show.

On 3/31/2017 at 9:09 PM, njbchlover said:

Sort of like the Island of Misfit Toys from the Christmas show, Rudoplph the Red-Nosed Reindeer??   ;-)

Both awesome observations!  Hysterical.  And probably true.

If Lisa V had her way, both Kristen and Stassi would be off the show.  FI Tom, Arianna, and Scheana have moved on and they are still at Sur - and enough to build the show around assuming James and Lala comeback.  Lisa likes them and they give the show a different vibe.

Tom Schwartz and Katie are in the middle and kind of the wild cards in all this.  Ultimately, if forced to choose, Lisa would let them go as well.  The TomTom bar is a great idea - and an AWESOME name IMO and both Toms would be foolish not to pursue it.  I hope they do.

[dosodog]

On Monday, April 10, 2017 at 11:37 AM, bethster2000 said:

I've been married for 21 years this May.  I have a very happy marriage.  However, here's the thing: even if you are happy, marriage is hard work.

I used to tell Stupendous Man, I was never a bitch until I met you and then he would respond with, I was never an asshole until I met you.....

Love.

[Cupcake04]

I was rewatching the wedding episode today and there is something about  Katie that is just so odd to me. She comes across as more like Schwartz's sister than his new wife. Like when she kisses him it is always like pecks and so unromantic. Even her vows seemed that way.  His made me tear up and were so sincere, but hers were like....idk...like something was missing. Even when they danced it was platonic almost. Like she was just going through the motions. And they went on honeymoon and were bored so they invited Stassi?. wtf?. What newlyweds do that??  It just struck me today and wondered if anyone else saw that too or just me?? lol

[zenme]

They just seem co-dependent. Not a match made in heaven.