Daenerys 'Stormborn' Targaryen: The Breaker Of Chains, Mother Of Dragons Etc

[Lady S.]

We know that Aegon's sisters, Visenya and Rhaenys, helped him conquer six of the seven kingdoms, but if IIRC that's about all we know in-show.

[Constantinople]

If/when Daenerys cleans up her mess in Slavers' Bay, and she still wants to free people from the shackles of slavery, she could always torch the Iron Bank.

[TooMuchCoffee]

If/when Daenerys cleans up her mess in Slavers' Bay, and she still wants to free people from the shackles of slavery, she could always torch the Iron Bank.

 

Not too big to fail?

[Danny Franks]

Do we know (show knowledge) if there has ever been a woman ruler in either Essos or Westeros?  Is Dany breaking new ground? 

 

Well, there's Lysa Arryn, ruling the Vale in the name of her precocious little charmer of a son. Only one of the Seven Kingdoms, but she seemed to have the loyalty of her knights and to be in a position of uncontested authority.

 

But Daenerys' ability to command the men who follow her seems to come from them wanting to fuck her, as much as anything else. Lysa probably doesn't have that going for her.

 

So, you're saying that they were stupid as fuck?  ;)

 

 

One thing I think you would have to say about the people of Meereen (and of nearly every single person in Essos, actually), is that their staggering arrogance blinds them to anything that could threaten them. 

 

You need people to WANT you on the throne, so you have to show that you deserve it - and not just because of your name.

 

 

But ideally, you want them ALL to want you on the throne. Dany's tactics at the moment involve appealing to one set of people, while totally and utterly alienating the others. And the only resolution to that seems to be to slaughter those people who don't respond to her appeals. It's not that she's picking the wrong side, because the rulers of Slavers' Bay are nasty, oppressive types who should be put down, and slavery is undoubtedly wrong. I think back to Tywin's conversation with Tommen about kingly qualities, and wonder whether Daenerys really has what it takes to deal with someone who disagrees with her and has a valid point.

Edited May 9, 2014 by Danny Franks

[Constantinople]

Do we know (show knowledge) if there has ever been a woman ruler in either Essos or Westeros?  Is Dany breaking new ground?

I think Daenerys is unique in being the "ruler" and not a regent for an under age son, such as Cersei or Lysa.

I suppose that could change if Stannis 3rd leech takes out Balon Greyjoy and Yara becomes Queen of the Iron Islands.

 

 

But Daenerys' ability to command the men who follow her seems to come from them wanting to fuck her, as much as anything else.

I think only Jorah & Daario want to play hide the dragon with her. Barristan doesn't seem interested

The Unsullied & the Second Sons are soldiers, so they may as well follow somone who has been successful leader, at least up till now. It's either that, or the fun's over. From here on out, they're Mr. Low Profile, just another douchebag with a job and three pairs of Dockers. If they're lucky, a month from now – best case scenario – they're managing a Cinnabon in Omaha.

[NoWillToResist]

 

But ideally, you want them ALL to want you on the throne. Dany's tactics at the moment involve appealing to one set of people, while totally and utterly alienating the others

 

DannyFranks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ahem. Sorry, got excited to see you. Heh.

 

Anyway, I agree; while the oppressed may outnumber their oppressors, numbers will only get you so far. Sure, Dany has dragons, and, if she's able to control them, she'd be formidable. But since this world has green hellfire, smoke baby assassins and ice zombies, she's not the only one with an ace up her sleeve.

[Danny Franks]

DannyFranks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ahem. Sorry, got excited to see you. Heh.

 

Anyway, I agree; while the oppressed may outnumber their oppressors, numbers will only get you so far. Sure, Dany has dragons, and, if she's able to control them, she'd be formidable. But since this world has green hellfire, smoke baby assassins and ice zombies, she's not the only one with an ace up her sleeve.

 

Heh. That's quite alright. It's to be expected. ;)

 

But really, it's good to see all the old faces (or 'names') from TWoP turning up here.

 

I think Dany's story from here on out has to be about her being able to fashion more of a consensus amongst those she would rule. Even Robert managed to do that, for much of his reign. He was gregarious and affable enough that it seems people liked him. Tywin is trying to do it through fear and scheming. How will Dany go about it?

 

The dragons give her a pretty big intimidation bonus, but as you say, she's not the only one who can bring magical stuff to the table.

 

I think only Jorah & Daario want to play hide the dragon with her. Barristan doesn't seem interested

 

 

And that gives, "Don't wake the dragon" a whole new meaning. Barristan is the one guy who seems to be following her out of a sense of duty before anything else. Even though Jorah is loyal, I can't imagine he'd be as loyal if Dany looked like Varys with a wig on. Daario clearly only wants one thing, and Dany seems to be lapping up the attention, at the moment.

[mac123x]

I think Dany's story from here on out has to be about her being able to fashion more of a consensus amongst those she would rule. Even Robert managed to do that, for much of his reign. He was gregarious and affable enough that it seems people liked him. Tywin is trying to do it through fear and scheming. How will Dany go about it?

 

Smug self-righteousness at the moment. "I will answer injustice with justice" [insert haughty look here]. 

 

One of Robert's real strengths was that he could win over former enemies, like the various lords who fought for Raegar.  Dany's "my way or death" approach wouldn't really inspire any opposition to lay down their arms.

 

Also, while I really enjoyed her actions in Astapor, from an outside observer it might make her look untrustworthy.  She struck a bargain to buy an army then reneged on her end of the deal.  "I traded you this rare item but it in fact isn't a rare item but actually a bomb.  HA ha!"

Edited May 9, 2014 by mac123x

[NoWillToResist]

Yeah, she's still young and inexperienced but I will give her credit for at least keeping around (and occasionally listening to) the older advisors who have lived a bit and seen more of the world and the way it works.

[Fen]

 

Daario clearly only wants one thing

 

Indeed.  That's pretty fortunate for Dany, otherwise he would simply have cut her throat when he managed to sneak into her tent at Yunkai.

 

 

Smug self-righteousness at the moment. "I will answer injustice with justice" [insert haughty look here].

 

Also - "I will do what queens do.  I will rule".  I'm honestly slightly confused as to whether those scenes are supposed to be cheer out loud, or - uh oh - Khaleesi is sounding a little unhinged.  I felt that both lines sounded very 'stagey'. 

[Lady S.]

I think Dany's story from here on out has to be about her being able to fashion more of a consensus amongst those she would rule. Even Robert managed to do that, for much of his reign. He was gregarious and affable enough that it seems people liked him. Tywin is trying to do it through fear and scheming. How will Dany go about it?

I feel like that was the flaw behind Dany's reasoning that no one should follow her if she can't rule a single city. Because really, the Westorosi don't give a shit about that when it comes to choosing which monarch to bend the knee to. That's not how Robb Stark became a king, or Robert Baratheon, or Renly "fight for me, I'm more fun than Stannis" Baratheon. Sure, they all came to unpleasant ends but Robert at least had 17 years on the throne first. Dany can add years of ruling experience to her resume but that won't be the reason she sits the Iron Throne, if she ever does. She'd either need to win over more allies like Ser Barry, as in not following her to bone her or because she freed them from slavery, or she'd need to try to outdo Tywin's theme song by destroying those who defy her and taking the throne with fire and blood. I mean it's great that she wants to learn how to rule, but there are other obstacles to her ruling Westeros that are not even being discussed.

Also - "I will do what queens do. I will rule". I'm honestly slightly confused as to whether those scenes are supposed to be cheer out loud, or - uh oh - Khaleesi is sounding a little unhinged. I felt that both lines sounded very 'stagey'.

I think the insane pause between "I will do what queens do" and "I will rule" was because it was supposed to be one of her impressive moments. I think the writers just really enjoy their attempts at regal philosophy like this and her previous line about answering injustice with justice, but the dialogue is actually really not that good and it take a greater actress than Emilia to make the lines not sound like clunkers. Edited May 10, 2014 by Lady S.

[Fen]

I think the insane pause between "I will do what queens do" and "I will rule" was because it was supposed to be one of her impressive moments. I think the writers just really enjoy their attempts at regal philosophy like this and her previous line about answering injustice with justice, but the dialogue is actually really not that good and it take a greater actress than Emilia to make the lines not sound like clunkers.

 

It was awful.  I think the thing about the other main players is they talk normally about the Throne and their motivation/justifications for wanting power, and their limitations in achieving it.  They seem flawed, but real.  Tywin chats pragmatically.  Balon sounds thwarted and bitter, Stannis sees it as his 'duty', Robb didn't even want the crown - but was motivated by avenging Ned, and Renly just thought he should be king because he's more likable than Stannis. 

 

Poor Daenerys, though, gets all these horrible stagey lines which just make her seem rather flat in comparison to the other characters.  There's a scene in Rome, which sums up my issues with the writing/acting.  Caesar, Mark Anthony and Posca are talking in normal conversation tones about how they can plausibly reject Pompey's offer of truce.  They find a reason (he refused to meet Caesar), and at 1.30 Caesar delivers it in an artificial, stagey way that the 'hoi polloi' would understand.  You see him click from normal man to a sort of archetype - the enraged warrior/leader.  I feel that Daenerys always seems be stuck in archetype mode.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZeRkvvAKhI

[Danny Franks]

I think the insane pause between "I will do what queens do" and "I will rule" was because it was supposed to be one of her impressive moments. I think the writers just really enjoy their attempts at regal philosophy like this and her previous line about answering injustice with justice, but the dialogue is actually really not that good and it take a greater actress than Emilia to make the lines not sound like clunkers.

 

 

I still think Emilia plays Daenerys as being up in the air about the Targaryen madness. The pauses and the posturing and the grandstanding often feel like she's on the precipice of going batshit crazy, especially with the icy calm she often shows. It's an interesting take, because I imagine Aerys having been one to rampage around yelling and threatening, as Viserys was. Dany's cold, detached approach feels like it could be scarier.

 

Of course, if she did go off her rocker, she might actually be more interesting. Just burn Meereen to the ground and get her ass over to Westeros and be relevant.

 

Oh, and I love that scene from Rome. Ciaran Hinds killed it as Caesar, and James Purefoy's Mark Anthony was the best thing in the show, by about fifteen miles. Brilliant, charismatic, powerful performance, and he made Mark Anthony every bit the leader he should have been, with all of the flaws he had. The scenes sums him up perfectly. Straightforward, no time for the delicacy of politics. In fact, I enjoy that show even more when I boil it down to a character study of Mark Anthony, and then a character comparison between him and Octavian.

Edited May 10, 2014 by Danny Franks

[NoWillToResist]

I think one thing that Dany has going for her is that her army is there by choice/loyalty, not duty or expectation of payment.

 

So if the Lannisters' lack of financial means were to be made public, they may lose a great deal of their support...

Edited May 10, 2014 by NoWillToResist

[Independent George]

Here's the thing that's always bothered me about Dany.

 

She's never been to Westeros. She knows nothing about its politics or culture, and she knows nothing about her family or what touched off the war that deposed them (do you really think she knows her father was called 'The Mad King'?). But she was willing back in S1 to invade with an army of Dothraki, causing the likely deaths of tens of thousands to restore her to a throne she's never seen, for... what, exactly? She was ok with Drogo buying ships to sail across the Narrow Seas right up until the point she saw how he expected to gain those ships. So what, exactly, did she think a Dothraki invasion of Westeros would be like? Viserys was at least trying to reclaim something he remembered. Why does Dany feel so entitled to Westeros that she's willing to trample over the lives of thousands for it?

 

That's why I found it satisfying tonight when the whatshisface tells Dany flat out that she murdered horribly a man who spoke out against the very crime he was punished for. What will her sense of justice think of the things her father did before he was deposed? She's got a man beside her who could tell her the truth in gory detail, if she has the stomach for it. And if she doesn't... that kind of tells you everything you need to know about what she really thinks of justice, doesn't it?

Edited May 12, 2014 by Independent George

[Constantinople]

She's never been to Westeros. She knows nothing about its politics or culture, and she knows nothing about her family or what touched off the war that deposed them (do you really think she knows her father was called 'The Mad King'?). But she was willing back in S1 to invade with an army of Dothraki, causing the likely deaths of tens of thousands to restore her to a throne she's never seen, for... what, exactly? She was ok with Drogo buying ships to sail across the Narrow Seas right up until the point she saw how he expected to gain those ships. So what, exactly, did she think a Dothraki invasion of Westeros would be like? Viserys was at least trying to reclaim something he remembered. Why does Dany feel so entitled to Westeros that she's willing to trample over the lives of thousands for it?

That is a modern perspective.

People in the Middle Ages -- particularly royals, nobles and churchmen -- were expected to defend their rights and press their claims, whether on the battlefield or in the courtroom, or both. In The Making of the Middle Ages by R.W. Southern, the author discussed a lawsuit between two religious orders over a church that lasted over a century, and at various times went before the local lord, his overlord, the King of France, the pope and multiple papal legates.

That's why I found it satisfying tonight when the whatshisface tells Dany flat out that she murdered horribly a man who spoke out against the very crime he was punished for. What will her sense of justice think of the things her father did before he was deposed? She's got a man beside her who could tell her the truth in gory detail, if she has the stomach for it. And if she doesn't... that kind of tells you everything you need to know about what she really thinks of justice, doesn't it?

Daenerys already told the man that crucifying his father wasn't a crime.

In a sense that's technically true since the justice system, and criminal law in particular, is something provided by the monarch to regulate the subjects' behavior, not the monarch's.

But the double standard, and acting in haste based on emotion, still looks bad.

[bluvelvet]

So how many titles have Daenerys racked up at this point. Took forever to introduce her, is that going to be said prior to every supplicant.

I also find it ironic that Daenerys clearly dislikes the upper class while she herself is one of them and is using that birthright to claim the iron throne.

Edited May 13, 2014 by bluvelvet

[Constantinople]

So how many titles have Daenerys racked up at this point. Took forever to introduce her, is that going to be said prior to every supplicant.

Littlefinger did say something about titles breeding other titles.

From memory, I think Missandei announced Daenerys as

Daenerys Stormborn of the House Targaryen,

Queen of Meeren,

Queen of the Anadals and the First Men

Lord of the Seven Kingdoms

Protector of the Realm

Khaeleesi of the Great Grass Sea

Breaker of Chains

Mother of Dragons

Deputy Under Secretary for Public Urinals &

Grand Poobah of the Loyal Order of Water Buffaloes, Lodge 26

But perhaps for the common folk such as the goat herd Missandei just goes with

It's your friendly, neighborhood Mhysa.

 

I also find it ironic that Daenerys clearly dislikes the upper class while she herself is one of them and is using that birthright to claim they iron throne.

It is a bit ironic given that "free" peasants in Westeros probably have little more freedom than actual slaves. Which isn't to say that the "free" peasants aren't better off, but there's not that much difference between a system that she condemns and one which she mindlessly parrots.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Constantinople

[mac123x]

Her titles also include "The Unburnt".  Her business card is printed in 3 point font.

[GreyBunny]

Daenerys already told the man that crucifying his father wasn't a crime.

 

Which made her go from annoying to hateable bitch as far as I'm concerned.  He told her his father was against killing the children and her reaction was to smack him down and remind him that she's the queen.  At the end of the scene she couldn't have cared less whether she killed a good and innocent man and perhaps more innocents, her biggest angst was that she had to actually sit and listen to more of the people she said she wanted to "rule."  Ugh.

[mac123x]

Which made her go from annoying to hateable bitch as far as I'm concerned.  He told her his father was against killing the children and her reaction was to smack him down and remind him that she's the queen.  At the end of the scene she couldn't have cared less whether she killed a good and innocent man and perhaps more innocents, her biggest angst was that she had to actually sit and listen to more of the people she said she wanted to "rule."  Ugh.

 

From her expression, I think she realized what a horrible mistake she had made, and probably wanted to apologize, but thougt to herself "queens don't apologize" so got snotty with him.  Which was probably another mistake.  She's got these ideas of what it means to be a ruler, but a lot of them are probably things she picked up from Viserys, who's not exactly a good role model. 

 

I think her entire story in Meereen, using the city as a trial-run to figure out how to be a good ruler, is pretty gross. No matter what she does, good or bad, she's going to abandon them to their own fate when she finally decides to head west.  Given the speed of events in Westeros, I don't see that she'd have adequate time to completely remake the Meereenese culture, society, and economy into something like Pentos or Qarth.  Five minutes after her ships go over the horizon, they'll be back to being slave-traders

[Hecate7]

I was actually more bothered by the finale of Season 2 than I was by the masters of Mereen getting their gander sauce. In S2, on guy was locked in a vault and left to die of dehydration... because he was a liar? That's a bit rough. And the other girl, also got the same sentence for sleeping with Dany's not-actually-boyfriend?

Actually, the reason the guy got locked in the vault and left to die of dehydration was that that was the exact fate he had planned for Dany. He told her there was gold in the vault. He had planned to trick her into walking into it, then locking her in.

 

The reason Doreah died, was that she murdered Irri and the rest, and stole the dragons. She actually strangled Irri with her bare hands. Sleeping with the guy was just the final proof that Dorreah was guilty of the other crimes. I don't think Danaerys really cared about who was sleeping with whom, but she did care about being betrayed and lied to and having all of her people slain and the little dragons stolen. She also cared that the dragon theft was itself a ploy to kill her, or at least imprison her with the dragons forever, and the gold and ships thing was a ploy to lock her into the vault. They both conspired to kill her, so she killed them.

[Pete Martell]

The Qarth story oddly underplayed the horrible things that Dany's people suffered, and what she would have suffered. I actually think the idea of the story was interesting (more the confusion and angst Dany went through in trying to figure out what to do to actually gain wealth and power, and the conflict this brought with Dany and Jorah), but making Xaro and Doreah one-dimensional antagonists and making Pee-Pee, or whatever his name was, so arrogant and easily defeated (a powerful warlock standing around as baby dragons roast him...), detracted from much of the potential strength in the material.

 

I've had very mixed feelings about Dany's story this season. My worst fear - that they would write her as being dickmatized and therefore not a True Leader - hasn't come to pass, but I think they are struggling on how to make her a character and not a symbol. Dany has become, to popular culture, a symbol of many things (a woman struggling in a man's world, a woman suffering from the repeated sexual harassment and abuse of men, a strong woman, a strong woman who doesn't swing a sword or shoot a gun, a symbol of imperiliasm, a symbol of "white savior" syndrome), but her actual characterization has been strained. The times this season they've tried to give her moments of characterization have been a visible struggle for Emilia Clarke, although I did greatly enjoy her scene with Hizdar - one of my favorite scenes this season. I also think Emilia does well at playing the underlying Targaryen madness bubbling up in Dany.

[Gudzilla]

 

dickmatized

That's a good one, I may have to steal it at some point. ;)

[Pete Martell]

Thanks. It's been around a long time. Not sure who coined it.

 

Dany/Daario still makes me go ugh. I know a lot of fans were disappointed they had no sex scene. All I have to say is if Emilia Clarke really did stop that scene, then I thank her. The show handled it just right for Dany's character, in my opinion.

[Constantinople]

Looking back on it, I think it's all been downhill for Daenerys ever since she conquered Meereen:
 

• crucifying people without any determination of individual culpability
• one dragon out of control and MIA and the other two locked-up
• rebellions in Astapor & Yunkai
• setting-up those Lord of the Flies food/community centers in Meereen
• Jorah exiled
• having sex with Daario

 

Season 4's ending was the least triumphalist or upbeat of any season ending for her

[Lady S.]

Yep, and people she freed wanting to return to slavery has got to be a low blow too.

[Constantinople]

Yep, and people she freed wanting to return to slavery has got to be a low blow too.

Thanks.

I knew I was forgetting something.

She really needs a win in Season 5.

[angelita100]

I started watching this show a couple of months ago.  First season, she was one of my favorite characters.  By the end of season two I could not stand her.  From the sound of things it doesn't look like she gets any better.  I'm not sure if it's the actress or the story but she just grates.  

[Lady S.]

I'm not sure if it's the actress or the story but she just grates.  

Emilia doesn't help, but the "WHERE ARE MY DRAGONS?!" plot would probably be hard for anyone to pull off.

[roamyn]

I started watching this show a couple of months ago. First season, she was one of my favorite characters. By the end of season two I could not stand her. From the sound of things it doesn't look like she gets any better. I'm not sure if it's the actress or the story but she just grates.

Uh oh...She's my favorite character and I've just started S2.

I hope she doesn't get as bad as her brother.

[Conan Troutman]

It's not getting that bad (yet).

 

Her storyline in S2 isn't great, yeah. In S3 it's a lot better, though, especially the first couple episodes. S4 is more of a "meh, can we get back to KL already?".  As far as the likeability of the character goes, she was one of my favorites in S1, too. What I don't like about her now is that she's more and more rushing to judgement and not thinking her decisions through or even talk with her advisors before making decisions. So even if she's willing to learn how to rule, she probably should eat a bit of humble pie first. Or as Pete Martell put it so perfectly, you can really sense the "underlying Targaryen madness bubbling up". It's gonna be interesting where it goes from here. Will she learn her lesson and turn it around or fully descent into madness?

Edited August 1, 2014 by Conan Troutman

[Constantinople]

I actually enjoyed Daenerys in Qarth, but I'm a weirdo that way.

Mostly, I enjoyed how the Spice Merchant ran verbal rings around her, and how Xaro Xhoan Daxos pulled a fast one on her. XXD & Daenerys mirrored Littlefinger & Ned Stark in that XXD all but told her not to trust him.

I wish we could have seen a little more of the city and the tile faced woman.

Daenerys did mouth off too much, but she made a couple of good decisions. When they were in the Red Waste, it was her idea to send riders out in different directions to find out if/when there was any place habitable. Also, if she had followed Jorah's advice, she would have left the dragons with the warlocks in the House of the Undying and split town.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Constantinople

[Lady S.]

I liked the Spice King giving Dany grammar lessons too, but the dragon theft just felt really clumsily handled. Doreah's betrayal felt really thinly supported, and the deleted scene of her murdering Irri is just ridiculous, so I'm glad at least that much was cut.

[Brn2bwild]

Re: the deleted scene: I love how on this show, no one getting strangled ever tries to fight back against the strangler.  As if Shae couldn't have pushed Tyrion away if she tried. 

[Holmbo]

I frequent the game if thrones board on IMDb from time to time. Stay away from that trollish place you might say but it's actually ok if you don't take it too seriously and use the ignore button freely.

One thing I've noticed is how disliked Emilia clarke's acting is on that board. There's pretty much a consensus that she is one of the worst actors on the show. And that's from people who have quiet mixed opinions about everything else. I haven't seen this anywhere else and I'm curious is this a wide spread opinion or just solely there at the IMDb board.

I personally have nothing against her acting. She's probably one of the weakest in the main main cast but that's not saying much.

[BlackberryJam]

I'll jump in and say I think she's terrible.  She's yelly when she should show emotion.  She's wooden when she tries to be restrained. She's dull as fuck.  The only people I've talked to who love her acting are, and this is completely terrible of me, teenagers.  Every teen GoT fan I've met, including my own family members, think EC is just amazing.  She's young.  She's gorgeous. That doesn't mean she can act.  I think she lacks any emotional depth in the role.  

 

Also, the eyebrows.  The eyebrows are painful.  

Edited October 27, 2014 by BlackberryJam

[LanceM]

I disagree. I think Emilia is a good actress. She was absolutely fantastic in season 1 and 3 in particular. This past season was a mixed bag. There were some scenes she nailed such as the throne room scene with Hizdair and the chaining of the dragons, then again there were other scenes that fell flat most notably the scene where she decides to stay in rule in Meereen. The problem isn't that she lacks emotional depth (she showed plenty the first season) it is that they seem to want her to play the ice cold unemotional regal queen in Meereen. Hopefully this changes going forward.

[Maximum Taco]

Question: Is Varys insane? In what world is Dany gentler than Stannis?

 

So far she is equally as brutal. She's burned people alive and crucified them, she never asked for repentance or offered mercy. She merely killed them, and without even a second thought. And it's not like she has a gentle hand at diplomacy either, as seen tonight and many times before. "They can live in my new world or die in their old one." Yeah that's the very picture of a gentle monarch, eh spider?

 

She's more beloved by the smallfolk, by with I mean the slaves she freed. But I don't think that would be the case in Westeros, especially if she brings her army of freed men over to take the Westerosi's land and resources. Her approval rating will tank if she seeks to settle that many new people in lands belonging to others. 

[Constantinople]

Question: Is Varys insane? In what world is Dany gentler than Stannis?

 

So far she is equally as brutal. She's burned people alive and crucified them, she never asked for repentance or offered mercy. She merely killed them, and without even a second thought. And it's not like she has a gentle hand at diplomacy either, as seen tonight and many times before. "They can live in my new world or die in their old one." Yeah that's the very picture of a gentle monarch, eh spider?

Daenerys also locked-up Xaro Xhoan Daxos (aka "Ducksauce") and Doreah in vault with no food or water. I imagine whichever one died first became dinner for the other. But one or both of them suffered a long, painful death.

Good King Joff, however, granted traitors the mercy of a quick, clean death at the hands of a professional executioner.

Such a pity that he died.

[LaughingOne]

Question: Is Varys insane? In what world is Dany gentler than Stannis?

 

So far she is equally as brutal. She's burned people alive and crucified them, she never asked for repentance or offered mercy. She merely killed them, and without even a second thought. And it's not like she has a gentle hand at diplomacy either, as seen tonight and many times before. "They can live in my new world or die in their old one." Yeah that's the very picture of a gentle monarch, eh spider?

 

She's more beloved by the smallfolk, by with I mean the slaves she freed. But I don't think that would be the case in Westeros, especially if she brings her army of freed men over to take the Westerosi's land and resources. Her approval rating will tank if she seeks to settle that many new people in lands belonging to others. 

 

Dany is as brutal with her adversaries as Stannis is, but I think her empathy for the "smallfolk" does set her apart.  I highly doubt Stannis would've locked up his greatest source of power simply because one kid was charred to death.  I think her overall disposition isn't a bad one for ruling Westeros - genuine concern for the masses, but brutality for her opposition - but she needs to get a whole lot smarter if she's ever going to sit on the iron throne.  She's way too reactionary at this stage and she needs to see the broader implications of her decisions.  Varys and Tyrion could be helpful in this regard if she's willing to listen to them.

[Maximum Taco]

Dany is as brutal with her adversaries as Stannis is, but I think her empathy for the "smallfolk" does set her apart.  I highly doubt Stannis would've locked up his greatest source of power simply because one kid was charred to death.  I think her overall disposition isn't a bad one for ruling Westeros - genuine concern for the masses, but brutality for her opposition - but she needs to get a whole lot smarter if she's ever going to sit on the iron throne.  She's way too reactionary at this stage and she needs to see the broader implications of her decisions.  Varys and Tyrion could be helpful in this regard if she's willing to listen to them.

 

Brutality for your opposition is not a good practice. It breeds contempt and treason. That's not to say you should be weak, but you should also be forgiving and merciful to those who ask for forgiveness and mercy.

 

Robert consolidated power so quickly in Westeros because he was willing to forgive, true he practically wiped out the Targaryen line, but he did nothing to the other factions that opposed him. The Tyrells and Dornish came through the war practically unscathed, and thus peace was established quickly, because none of the major families of Westeros had too much reason to hate Robert (especially since the Dornish hate was deflected towards the Lannisters.)

 

Dany is facing uprisings in Meereen because she butchered the masters mercilessly. Hopefully she learns from this misstep. A strong ruler will make their subjects kneel, but a wise one will also help them back up and not continue to beat them when they are on their knees.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Maximum Taco

[Pete Martell]

Varys saying that made little sense to me because why would Tryion care if Dany was gentle? I think they just had him say that because her story this week was trying to be gentle (not wanting to resurrect the fighting pits, chaining her dragons).

 

I thought I'd hate Dany in Meereen but it's been passable enough - seeing her struggle with moral dilemmas and seeing confirmation that leading is not the same as saying, "I am a queen" 500 times has been interesting. I just wish they'd cast someone better for Daario. He's not even good enough to be wallpaper.

[Maximum Taco]

Varys saying that made little sense to me because why would Tryion care if Dany was gentle? I think they just had him say that because her story this week was trying to be gentle (not wanting to resurrect the fighting pits, chaining her dragons).

 

I thought I'd hate Dany in Meereen but it's been passable enough - seeing her struggle with moral dilemmas and seeing confirmation that leading is not the same as saying, "I am a queen" 500 times has been interesting. I just wish they'd cast someone better for Daario. He's not even good enough to be wallpaper.

 

Any woman who must say "I am the queen" is no true queen.

[Pete Martell]

I get what you mean, but I have a feeling any queen on this show would say that, in part because they probably think viewers wouldn't remember unless they kept telling us...

[Maximum Taco]

I get what you mean, but I have a feeling any queen on this show would say that, in part because they probably think viewers wouldn't remember unless they kept telling us...

 

Oh I wasn't really getting at anything I was just trying to be funny by paraphrasing Tywin.

 

Yeah I know the show needs to beat us over the head with the fact that it's a woman in power, because they can't seem to get their heads around that subject either and for some reason must think we're all that small minded.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Maximum Taco

[Danny Franks]

Sigh. She's just boring. Like I've said before, I want to like her, because I like Emilia Clarke, but Dany is boring. Her story is boring, her scenes are boring, the secondary characters in her story are boring. I hoped the writers of the show would address some of the shortcomings of the books, but the only thing they seem to be doing is making her boring scenes shorter (which is a good thing, don't get me wrong...).

 

If they did actually get her to meet up with Varys and Tyrion, then it'd be great. But somehow, I don't see that happening. I know there are some spoiler pics out there suggesting it will, but my guess is that they're misleading in some way.

[nodorothyparker]

I liked her a lot first book/first season and wanted to see her get back to Westeros and win the throne.  And she's moments along the way that I've liked (Dracarys, anyone?) but I've since come to realize that for the most part while she may be a great conqueror, she's a terrible ruler and every bit as delusional as every other would-be monarch we've seen.  Throw in the general offensiveness of the fact that she's basically using the people of Slavers Bay as "practice" for being a queen with every intention of someday riding off and abandoning them to whatever mess she leaves in her wake, and I'm really fine with it now if she turns out to be a red herring who never makes it past the Smoking Sea to the west.

[Hecate7]

Daenerys also locked-up Xaro Xhoan Daxos (aka "Ducksauce") and Doreah in vault with no food or water. I imagine whichever one died first became dinner for the other. But one or both of them suffered a long, painful death.

Good King Joff, however, granted traitors the mercy of a quick, clean death at the hands of a professional executioner.

Such a pity that he died.

 

Good point. So far, Dany has meted out to people exactly the deaths they were planning for her. Stannis, otoh, is just burning people alive because Melisandre thinks it might get them some magic.

[Lady S.]

I thought I'd hate Dany in Meereen but it's been passable enough - seeing her struggle with moral dilemmas and seeing confirmation that leading is not the same as saying, "I am a queen" 500 times has been interesting. I just wish they'd cast someone better for Daario. He's not even good enough to be wallpaper.

Eh, he's an improvement over Daario 1.0, at least, isn't he? That guy and that wig in bed with Dany would be a lot worse imo. It's not like Daario was ever some great Oberyn-type character.