Season 5 Discussion

[Absolom]

In that little TLC video about the church, Zach even talked about their church in reference to Gil's church getting a building.

[LoquaciousAudacity]

While I think their upbringing has a lot to do with it, I also think Michael truly loves and wants children. From what we've been shown, she seems to adore babies and she has a very close bond with Callie. I feel her there. I'm almost 36 and I have always wanted to have kids, but haven't yet. I just finally met someone I want to even have kids with. And I'm about as progressive as they come, but I absolutely love kids and I dote on all the kids in my life. I see that in Michael too. Plus, Gil & Kelly and their other kids do seem to consider other things important, not just popping out babies, as fundy as they are. 

I also do see love between them. I think they're just both reserved and boring people. But since their wedding episode, I've seen Brandon in a different light. I believe he loves her and they are a good match. I just hope that if they are truly having difficulties, they get the help they need and or adopt. 

[trimthatfat]

I like Michaela. If she is having an issue having children, I feel for her and I hope they can conceive soon. I think this is one of the reasons why I find their culture so toxic. I bet the second someone in their religion begins to court, questions of marriage and babies come up. It's a lot of pressure to put on a couple and not every couple can have children easily.  It seems Alyssa had no issue having a children, but Erin had health issues, and Michaela may be struggling in that regard as well.

[Sew Sumi]

I don't think Michael has the same condition as Erin; Brandon's remarks about God's timing indicate that they haven't conceived yet. I wonder if she can be tested based on family history, or does she have to wait until she has a miscarriage? And would Brandon ever consent to being tested? It certainly could be a problem on HIS end. 

[andromeda331]

35 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

I don't think Michael has the same condition as Erin; Brandon's remarks about God's timing indicate that they haven't conceived yet. I wonder if she can be tested based on family history, or does she have to wait until she has a miscarriage? And would Brandon ever consent to being tested? It certainly could be a problem on HIS end. 

I agree. It sounds like Michael's having different fertility problems then Erin. Come to think of it don't they have an aunt who also had difficulties conceiving? I think on Gil's side?

[Kiss my mutt]

I don't think Brandon is particularly interested in her sexually or women in general. Or men for that matter. 

[lookeyloo]

Maybe true but he did look at her more lovingly and was stroking her hand. Maybe he can like her enough to make her happy. Or they are both very reserved. 

[Sew Sumi]

3 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I agree. It sounds like Michael's having different fertility problems then Erin. Come to think of it don't they have an aunt who also had difficulties conceiving? I think on Gil's side?

Yes, an aunt has the same clotting condition that Erin has (I think it's Gil's sister). That's how they eventually figured out what to test for, or at least that's how they told the story. IIRC, the aunt briefly talked about it on camera during one of the parties at Mama Jane and Papa Bill's place. 

Edited January 29, 2017 by Sew Sumi

[andromeda331]

7 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Yes, an aunt has the same clotting condition that Erin has (I think it's Gil's sister). That's how they eventually figured out what to test for, or at least that's how they told the story. IIRC, the aunt briefly talked about it on camera during one of the parties at Mama Jane and Papa Bill's place. 

That's who she was. Thank you for the information. If its Gil's sister that may be inherited from his family?

[Sew Sumi]

It's genetic and obviously not sex specific, so yeah it looks like Gil is the carrier.

Kind of like hemophilia in reverse.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Sew Sumi

[Sew Sumi]

Dull episode. I was counting the kids who had braces; there were about five when they shot this. I think Carlin and Josie have gotten theirs off since. 

From the previews for next week, it looks like we were right about Florida being the place where Bobby and Tori started their courship last fall. 

Edited February 3, 2017 by Sew Sumi

[sATL]

Hats off to John and Alyssa for driving to and probably through the Chattanooga Lookout Mountains at night. That's a feat most wouldn't plan to do staying on Interstate 24/75/59, let alone venturing off the highway to find a cabin, that you have never been to, nestled in the mountains.

The amazing grace singing-along... why can't they find a more joyous song? Given the occasion, a happy birthday family rendition would haven been better. Or since they were in a WWII bunker/ammo house, how about the national anthem - which should be up Lawson's ally.

Gil surprised my expectations on the new wedding band. I figured he would have produced just a plain gold band. He did good, probably with a little help from UPN.

small cake for upwards 30 people.. I know the kids would probably just want ice cream or  a small piece, but Gill (and probably those other boys/men) had a huge hunk.

Did I hear right ? Alyssa agreed the anyone could come before baby #2 arrival? Last time I think she only said Gil & Kelly.

Edited February 3, 2017 by sATL

[bybrandy]

Alyssa surprised me too.  I was shocked when she said anybody could come.  I was wondering if that was just her being way more chill with baby two or if she just saying that.

I'm interested in Nathan and Kelly Jo's conflicts. 

I like how Kelly Jo was so happy to have the whole family there but when she heard that the missing kids were on the way she was overcome.   For better or worse she really does love all those kids.

[wait.what]

Was there an extra girl in this episode? Blue shirt, red skirt. One of the girls was taking a selfie and they panned over to her. She was also in the scene when Kelly was getting her gift. The girl was standing behind the couch kind leaning on the wood pillar. Is she one of the daughters? I just couldn't place her. 

[gunderda]

12 hours ago, sATL said:

Hats off to John and Alyssa for driving to and probably through the Chattanooga Lookout Mountains at night. That's a feat most wouldn't plan to do staying on Interstate 24/75/59, let alone venturing off the highway to find a cabin, that you have never been to, nestled in the mountains.

The amazing grace singing-along... why can't they find a more joyous song? Given the occasion, a happy birthday family rendition would haven been better. Or since they were in a WWII bunker/ammo house, how about the national anthem - which should be up Lawson's ally.

Gil surprised my expectations on the new wedding band. I figured he would have produced just a plain gold band. He did good, probably with a little help from UPN.

small cake for upwards 30 people.. I know the kids would probably just want ice cream or  a small piece, but Gill (and probably those other boys/men) had a huge hunk.

Did I hear right ? Alyssa agreed the anyone could come before baby #2 arrival? Last time I think she only said Gil & Kelly.

That cake didn't look very good to me... It looked super dense and not fluffy as a cake should be =/ 

I found it a little weird how Kelly and Alyssa were talking to each other on the train...like estranged in-laws or something... Kelly asking how things were going with the baby.... unless they were told to talk about it then that makes sense but otherwise it came across as super awkward. 

Great surprise thought done by the kids.  I'm also surprised they managed to get the younger kids to keep it a secret. 

[cereality]

This family really loves each other and loves its time together. You can tell it isn't obligatory. I wonder if Gil and Kelly feel bad that they are just less close with Alyssa and John. Alyssa has gotten plenty close with her inlaws and with her first pregnancy even said her sisters in law knew weeks in advance of her family. She hangs out with John's family a few times a week and then you can tell they view her family as a big noisy obligation that messes up her cute house. Just the way Kelly and Alyssa were talking about - how's the pregnancy going - made it seem like they don't talk often; and it didn't seem like a made for tv convo given how short it was and how noisy the background. And noticeable that when Kelly said they'd stay in a motel, then Alyssa said anyone can come. Somehow I picture Kelly talking to Michael daily - I think she was even sending her pics from the train ride. Don't picture that with Alyssa. I know Gil and Kelly understand that each kid and their family will differ and don't force the "you all must be each other's best friends" but I wonder if it does hurt their feelings - they know she loves them but prefers not to be involved.

Edited February 3, 2017 by cereality

[gunderda]

47 minutes ago, cereality said:

This family really loves each other and loves its time together. You can tell it isn't obligatory. I wonder if Gil and Kelly feel bad that they are just less close with Alyssa and John. Alyssa has gotten plenty close with her inlaws and with her first pregnancy even said her sisters in law knew weeks in advance of her family. She hangs out with John's family a few times a week and then you can tell they view her family as a big noisy obligation that messes up her cute house. Just the way Kelly and Alyssa were talking about - how's the pregnancy going - made it seem like they don't talk often; and it didn't seem like a made for tv convo given how short it was and how noisy the background. And noticeable that when Kelly said they'd stay in a motel, then Alyssa said anyone can come. Somehow I picture Kelly talking to Michael daily - I think she was even sending her pics from the train ride. Don't picture that with Alyssa. I know Gil and Kelly understand that each kid and their family will differ and don't force the "you all must be each other's best friends" but I wonder if it does hurt their feelings - they know she loves them but prefers not to be involved.

Yea, and Kelly called Erin a short time after they had left to tell her all about how Gil was going to surprise her.  But no call or texts to Alyssa....

But maybe Alyssa is just not a phone/text type of person.  I suppose it's possible!

[cereality]

True Kelly was on the phone with Erin for seemingly forever going - well it can't be Chattanooga bc we're on the wrong highway etc. And it seemed very natural - like they call each other any time for any reason without any kind of conversation topic in mind. Seems like her and Michael may be that way too . . . .

[Sew Sumi]

Erin might have become Kelly's go-to after Michael moved away, despite Kelly reiterating on last night's episode that Michael is the "perfect child." 

[IndianPaintbrush]

They've said before that Alyssa grew up very close to Gil.  I think she's just not as close to Kelly as some of the other girls.  It happens. *shrugs*

I too am intrigued by the past conflicts between Kelly and Nathan.  I can see how he might have had difficulty "obeying" when he was younger.

Edited February 3, 2017 by IndianPaintbrush

[Hero]

I think the praising thing is a little odd. But, they seem to enjoy it and appreciate it. 

Brandon looks like he hates being around the family.

It must suck to be a person who marries in to this family and have some kind of useful talent. You will get used so often.

[Sew Sumi]

I thought it was hilarious that Brandon gave Michael the best hair in the kids' lineup. Poor, vain Erin! ?

[sATL]

39 minutes ago, Suzy123 said:

I think the praising thing is a little odd. But, they seem to enjoy it and appreciate it. 

Brandon looks like he hates being around the family.

It must suck to be a person who marries in to this family and have some kind of useful talent. You will get used so often.

Kinda makes one wonder what the un-married Bates boys will bring to their new wives family. Sure its wonderful to have someone who can cut a large tree, but that's not something one needs done all of the time. I'll guess we'll find out in the upcoming weeks what can Bobby do extra for the family.

Edited February 3, 2017 by sATL

[IndianPaintbrush]

The birthday praising probably isn't necessary in a regular-sized family, but I'm glad they do it. It's important to make each child feel like they're special and they contribute something unique.  Otherwise they're just Duggar-bots.  :)

[farmgal4]

5 hours ago, gunderda said:

Yea, and Kelly called Erin a short time after they had left to tell her all about how Gil was going to surprise her.  But no call or texts to Alyssa....

But maybe Alyssa is just not a phone/text type of person.  I suppose it's possible!

I thought Alyssa looked and acted sickly last night.  Morning sickness that lasts all day, perhaps?  She was very pale, and you could tell she just didn't feel well IMO.

[sATL]

12 minutes ago, farmgal4 said:

I thought Alyssa looked and acted sickly last night.  Morning sickness that lasts all day, perhaps?  She was very pale, and you could tell she just didn't feel well IMO.

Could be. that long car ride , winding around mountains and hills, plus broken sleep pattern, could make anyone feel queasy.

[Lisa418722]

36 minutes ago, sATL said:

Could be. that long car ride , winding around mountains and hills, plus broken sleep pattern, could make anyone feel queasy.

That's my thought too.  I've been on roads in that area before and I've felt queasy by the time I got out of the car and that was without being pregnant.  

[Sew Sumi]

Kelly's birthday is 10/26, so Alyssa was about 6 months gone. She posted pics of herself looking very healthy before that. She was able to keep it secret from the public for about 5 months, IIRC. 

[absolutelyido]

I noticed that Zach seemed to be in charge of making dinner while Erin and Whitney lead the decorating. They showed him tending a big pot of spaghetti a couple of times. Also, Lawson seemed to be the one serving the cake, or at least helping. I like that in this family the men don't just sit around waiting to be served by the "womenfolk" (unlike another large TV family).

[crimson23]

In regard to Brandon and Michaela, where they live and if she would be afraid to venture out in the big city..during the episode where the Bates visited Chicago and met B's parents..despite all the exterior shots of downtown Chicago, they spent most of the episode in  the western suburbs.  The art shop and the char house they visited were in La Grange IL.  There would be no reason to travel that distance to eat and hang out unless Brandon lived in that suburb.  LaGrange is far from big city traffic and living. 

It is the tendency to say Chicago if you live in the area, even if you aren't in the city limits. 

[sATL]

There was a RH reunion where Andy questioned the attire of two of wives, in relation to where they lived, the weather for the time of year and what they had on. One wife had a summer looking outfit and the other very winter looking. I know shows can film much earlier than the true/actual date event, esp. birthdays & anniversaries . Ever since that reunion episode, I pay closer attention to that detail.

One of the natural beauties and a big tourist attraction of the North GA and Tennessee mountains is the fall foliage - the changing and color of the leaves. And the cooler temps, esp. in the morning. I need to re-watch the drive, picnic ,the 8:30 am train , and some of the picture taking scenes, but IIRC, it seemed pretty "green" and very few fallen leaves - like in mid sept at the latest. Its kinda a little hard to guess the true film date with the Bates in that they tend to dress conservatively with sleeves, jean skirts (which personally I always thought were very warm/heavy), vests, and pants all of the time.

Edited February 4, 2017 by sATL

[Sew Sumi]

Oh, I can totally believe that this wasn't filmed around Kelly's actual 10/26 birthday. It's all staged anyway.

[cereality]

As overwhelmed as Brandon looks with the family, I will say both he and Michael seem genuinely good with kids. Every time we see him visit, he has a kid attached to his hip from the moment he exits the car until the moment he leaves - as does Michael - and he does NOT seem like he's being forced to carry them around or that he's annoyed at all. If anything -- I feel like he likes the little kids much better than the teens and his peer inlaws. I have a feeling he got married in very large part so he could have a family - and fulfill his Godly duty of repopulating the earth with lots of fundy kids. He likes Michael, sure, but they just don't seem to have the "married" relationship that the others have. I mean when we saw the wedding episodes/honeymoon pics of Zach, Chad, and John -- there were some definite "unholy" looks on the guys' faces -- you could totally tell what part of the day they were looking forward to and it wasn't the wedding cake or the nice dinner. Brandon's honeymoon episode - he acted like they were hanging out with his sister. I hope they figure out and have babies bc THAT is what he is looking forward to -- not just hanging out with each other.

[cereality]

19 hours ago, absolutelyido said:

I noticed that Zach seemed to be in charge of making dinner while Erin and Whitney lead the decorating. They showed him tending a big pot of spaghetti a couple of times. Also, Lawson seemed to be the one serving the cake, or at least helping. I like that in this family the men don't just sit around waiting to be served by the "womenfolk" (unlike another large TV family).

It's been said before that Zach and Warden can cook and like to cook. It's likely Lawson doesn't/can't cook -- but we have seen him and Nathan before helping Kelly with simple food tasks -- like chopping up vegetables for a salad; so I can see him taking the initiative to slice up the cake. It's good that in such a huge family, they haven't designated cooking as "womens work" -- bc it is obviously a huge chore and while I think Kelly and some of the older girls (Alyssa/Michael?) are/were in charge -- it's good that they have help and can take the day off and it isn't ALWAYS their responsibility.

[SongbirdHollow]

On February 4, 2017 at 3:55 AM, sATL said:

One of the natural beauties and a big tourist attraction of the North GA and Tennessee mountains is the fall foliage - the changing and color of the leaves. And the cooler temps, esp. in the morning. I need to re-watch the drive, picnic ,the 8:30 am train , and some of the picture taking scenes, but IIRC, it seemed pretty "green" and very few fallen leaves - like in mid sept at the latest. Its kinda a little hard to guess the true film date with the Bates in that they tend to dress conservatively with sleeves, jean skirts (which personally I always thought were very warm/heavy), vests, and pants all of the time.

I'm in the mountains of Virginia and we had a late peak for foliage this past fall. I've got pictures from Skyline Drive/Shenandoah National Park dated October 30 that show the leaves just starting to turn colors, and that's at high elevation and north of them. It was kind of a dud season. I can believe that the footage was shot on Kelly's actual birthday weekend.

[Evagirl]

I love this show!!  I wish it was on an hour instead of 30 minutes.  I do admit that I get bored when it's Gil and Kelly at their house with the kids.  I much prefer checking in on the married kids.

I enjoying watching how the Bates kid "court" as opposed to the Duggar kids.  When Tori and her beau was on the beach and he had her wrapped in his arms while he prayed - that was really special.  Even the Bates realize that a chaperone isn't needed when a camera crew is around.  Kelly has said it's going to be at least year or two before they get engaged, but from the way these two were all into each other, I don't think a long engagement is in the plan.

I don't think Gil and Kelly (especially Gil) is very comfortable with the PDA that the courting couple show, but he's accepting it I guess.  

I didn't think Brandon and Michaella had much chemistry when they were dating, engaged or newly married.  I knew she was head over heels in love with him, but I wasn't so sure about him.  The chemistry between Zach and his wife, Erin and Chad, and even Alyssa and John is much more apparent.  Even when Nathan was dating the girl from NY, I felt there was a lot of chemistry between them.  But I think they'll be okay.

Jeb and Judson need their own show.  They are as cute as a button.  When the producer asked them if they knew what courting was about and one of them said, "I think it's about basketball," I had to laugh.

[Sew Sumi]

Tori and Bobby were full-frontal hugging even before he asked her to court (they hugged when Tori arrived at the beach house). Good lord, JB and Mechelle would have stroked out. 

[Evagirl]

Just now, Sew Sumi said:

Tori and Bobby were full-frontal hugging even before he asked her to court (they hugged when Tori arrived at the beach house). Good lord, JB and Mechelle would have stroked out. 

I KNOW!!!  Bobby even cupped the back of her head when she hugged him.  You're right about J-B/M.  I remember when Derick tried to touch Jill (in a perfectly innocent way) when Jill and JB were in Napal.  JB walked right up between them to keep the separated!  Two grown people!  On a bright and sunny day!!  With the dad in attendance no less!!  They can't even hold hands until they are ENGAGED!  Insanity!!  That's why I love the Bates.  Even though they're Fundies, they keep it real.

[IndianPaintbrush]

Tori and Bobby seem very natural together. She's calmer around him too. They make a great match.

It's too bad Bobby had to put on the courtship production in front of their families. They're pretty much already married in their heads, so you could tell both of them found it all rather forced and unnecessary.

[Sew Sumi]

I'm busy watching basketball, but @IndianPaintbrush's post reminded me that they told the story of how they met in Pensacola in Oct. '15, but I missed who the matchmaker was. I have it on DVR, but I figure someone here will answer before I get around to watching it. Can someone humor me? :D

[cereality]

20 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

I'm busy watching basketball, but @IndianPaintbrush's post reminded me that they told the story of how they met in Pensacola in Oct. '15, but I missed who the matchmaker was. I have it on DVR, but I figure someone here will answer before I get around to watching it. Can someone humor me? :D

Bobby's roommate in college. I didn't get the sense that Tori met Bobby's roommate in FL - rather she met him in Tenn., somehow that led to an intro to Bobby, she talked to Bobby long distance for a fair bit of time, and he started to feel this was the one - when she finally came down to meet him in person, he had told his parents - if she's half as great in person as what I think she is, this is a done deal.

[cereality]

I think Gil and Kelly learned a LOT more than they've admitted from Zach's failed courtship. I think before that, they too wanted their kids to have fundy-ideal relationship. Meaning - they'd have perfectly chaste kids who wouldn't so much as look at, let alone talk to a member of the opposite sex, until one day a courtship partner fell out of the sky (for the girls) or God put it in their hearts that a certain girl was the one (the boys). Then they'd court from a distance- no handholding or touching or kissing and wind up with a spouse and a perfect wedding night. And then reality happened and Zach's courtship ended. They saw how heartbroken their son was and heard him say that he didn't know what to talk to girls about and even felt uncomfortable sitting close to a girl on the couch and I think reality set in - that if they enforced their draconian rules, they'd end up with a bunch of 30 yr old awkward bachelor sons (aka John Duggar) and daughters leaping to court any guy that so much as looked at them (Derick Dillard or Ben Seewald anyone) and they may even end up with a few divorcees if they went into marriages not knowing a single thing about their spouse and having no chemistry with them.

Gil and Kelly's "rules" are actually quite relaxed and amount to fairly normal dating. Sure there's more family involvement than most relationships - but frankly I've known a lot of regular 20 yr old couples who spend a lot of time hanging out with their boy/girlfriend's family simply bc they still live at home. I also think the "rules" aren't really enforced. Sure they prefer chaperones but Kelly has even said that the couples have privacy to speak as they wish and chaperones will not be sitting with them even if they're in the same restaurant etc. Here Carlin (?) was the chaperone for the courtship proposal and she could be seen WAY off in the distance taking pics -- doubt she could hear a word even if she wanted. And Kelly has said before that Tori comes home from college and goes straight upstairs and texts Bobby all day long - as any 21 yr old would - so they've presumably had lots of time to talk about what their lives will look like, whether they want 2 kids or 20, whether she likes beaches or mountains better etc. Kelly also said they have a "6 inch rule" in terms of distance between significant others - yet Tori's head is constantly on Bobby's shoulder. Yet we've never seen Kelly or Gil say anything to embarrass the couple about it. Frankly even with Erin and Chad, I recall a scene where they were talking about how they haven't kissed but really want to - and Erin was practically sitting in Chad's lap. So even with courtship #1 - Gil and Kelly "allowed" couples to behave as they wanted without being in their face about it.

Tori is probably my least favorite - I find her way too obnoxious. The courtship episode was boring - Bobby should've just asked her when she walked in the door, rather than doing all those "stations" showing their weekend activities; or he should have just taken her to the beach that first evening and asked. Frankly they know they're getting married and should jump right to engagement. Tori is a lot more tolerable near Bobby - she tones down her obnoxiousness near him; he was really quiet this episode - though I think he's fairly outgoing as we saw at the summer camp. Also interesting that Kelly thinks Tori and Bobby are the most like Gil and Kelly; I don't see it -- I can see Bobby being the fun one, but which one is Tori like - neither Gil nor Kelly seem crazy or loud to me.

[Sew Sumi]

Kelly said that they HAD a six inch rule. As you mentioned, Gil and Kelly learned a LOT after Zach's failed courtship with Sarah Reith (who now wears jeans and has a nose ring). This is the last time I saw a courting Bates couple not cuddled up, with the exception of Chad and Erin, who pretty much played by the Gothard playbook. Only hand holding and side hugs after engagement. 

Even Zach kissed Whitney when they were courting or engaged. Much better than this. They look like cardboard cutouts: 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2017 by Sew Sumi

[sATL]

wow... the idea/concept/rules of courting was new to Bobby? That statement took me by surprise. Last I heard, they were waiting until they both finished college (I think he is a year ahead of her), before marriage, which will allow the dating/getting to know process happen naturally anyway. Really didn't need to put a "name" on it. I guess that goes to show, if the guy really wants the girl, he would do and go thorough anything.

Anyone found out what Bobby's major is at Pensacola Christian College ? Looks like this school is accredited (link). someone on another site thought PCC had a no PDA rule - on or off campus. Browsing the Code of Conduct (link), to verify.

Yes the parasail would have been a nice private moment to "ask", but sunset dinner at sea was just as special. Looks like dinner came from Outback. :)

Now this is courtship #5 for Bates... Prelude to next season..

Oh.. Alyssa looked a little "ill" on the dolphin boat ride - dark glasses and a bottle of water...hmmm. poor thing..

Edited February 12, 2017 by sATL

[sheshark]

Are the Bates still in the hotel for church or have they moved to the little church with the added steeple?

[gunderda]

I was surprised they even called him Tori's boyfriend before they were courting. Apparently they were boyfriend/girlfriend for a year??? What in the world is courting for then? They already got to know each other for a year!

I did like Alyssa saying that it might be a surprised engagement instead in front of the parents.  HAHAHA. 

[IndianPaintbrush]

There is no purpose for courtship except that it means the couple is moving purposefully towards engagement. Practically speaking, the guys had better be planning how to support a future brood (unless you're courting a Duggar, in which case you can just sponge off your FIL).

[sATL]

umm..the band was good. But Lawson seemed off key and missed a note or two - esp. at the end of the verse. "But he's found it out.."

And is it normal to record a song with one person and have another sing it, at the first performance  just after its released? I know collaborations have their challenges and artists get overbooked.. I guess I'm used to the lead of the duet singing a version that is modified for one part, if the other person isn't available.

Edited February 17, 2017 by sATL

[IndianPaintbrush]

I am cracking up over the name Ye Olde Steak House. 

Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree with Lawson that forgetting the lyrics to your own song at a major concert is pretty bad. But the larger issue is that he's just not that talented as a singer or songwriter.

[sATL]

What was all that business with the tickets? Most concerts at churches either you come in the door at sit wherever (within reason) or they just take the ticket the door, maybe give you a stub back - ie "old school" . Scanning like you are at a major concert/athletic venue is a little beyond where Lawson is now. 

The look on Kellie's face when someone asked her to direct people out then back in, so they can be scanned, was priceless !

Edited February 17, 2017 by sATL