Season 5 Discussion

[Evagirl]

I'm not a country/western music fan, but I don't hate it.  I said that to say this, I just don't think Lawson can sing.  IMO he's average but certainly not star quality. I don't even think he would have made it through an audition of The Voice or American Idol.

I really like the Bates, all of them and have watch them ever since they've been on TV.  But I've never felt Lawson could sing.  I think he should focus on writing and selling his songs.  He's very good at putting words together.

Maybe I'm wrong and country/western fans think he's great.  He certainly has groupies - but I think that's because he's a very good looking guy.

[VioletNevermind]

1 hour ago, Evagirl said:

I'm not a country/western music fan, but I don't hate it.  I said that to say this, I just don't think Lawson can sing.  IMO he's average but certainly not star quality. I don't even think he would have made it through an audition of The Voice or American Idol.

I really like the Bates, all of them and have watch them ever since they've been on TV.  But I've never felt Lawson could sing.  I think he should focus on writing and selling his songs.  He's very good at putting words together.

Maybe I'm wrong and country/western fans think he's great.  He certainly has groupies - but I think that's because he's a very good looking guy.

I thought the same thing.  Several of the notes he hit were awfully (and unpleasantly) flat.  Some missed the mark entirely.  I'm not saying this as someone who has perfect pitch or a formal music education, just as someone who appreciates music and can usually tell what will fly or not.  I can't imagine that Lawson's music has much of an audience beyond his core group of religious country fans.  He has positive reviews on Amazon, but very few of them.  At the very least, he's a good-looking guy with a pleasant attitude.  That alone will sustain him, at least for a while.  I certainly don't see him becoming the next <insert country music star here>.

[luvmylabs]

I don't think Lawson's voice is bad...just not very distinctive.  Carlin did a great job and has a pretty voice.  Not sure about the ticket snafoo...there were plenty of seat in that auditorium.  I continue to like the Bates family.

[sATL]

3 hours ago, SuzyLee said:

I thought the same thing.  Several of the notes he hit were awfully (and unpleasantly) flat.  Some missed the mark entirely.  I'm not saying this as someone who has perfect pitch or a formal music education, just as someone who appreciates music and can usually tell what will fly or not.  I can't imagine that Lawson's music has much of an audience beyond his core group of religious country fans.  He has positive reviews on Amazon, but very few of them.  At the very least, he's a good-looking guy with a pleasant attitude.  That alone will sustain him, at least for a while.  I certainly don't see him becoming the next <insert country music star here>.

I wonder if he works with , or been suggested/encouraged to train with a vocal coach. Its not an embarrassment to work with someone .

I think in the studio, the guy working the sound board has been doing too much correcting. If so, every live performance would need the same corrections. Surely the CD couldn't have that many note miscues

Edited February 17, 2017 by sATL

[sadtvjunkie]

Carlin should stick to yodeling -she can't sing. Neither can Lawson, the whole time I was asking where's his manager? Trying to cheap out! This is the one person you actually need to do a tour. They take care of all the phone calls, schedules, problems, etc. leaving the talent( not Lawson) to perform.

[ChiCricket]

I like country music. In my opinion, he cannot sing well enough to "make it."

PS I more or less like what we get shown of the family, but I think he's delusional if he thinks he's ever going to be even a little bit famous for his 'singing'.

[BitterApple]

I give Lawson credit for chasing his dream, but I don't think he'll make it. He's not some 15 year-old blonde pop tartlet that a record label can AutoTune into a success. Country fans expect a live performance and he can't stay on key to save his life.

[cereality]

Yeah -- wow -- he cannot sing. I mean he'd be fine leading a family sing along at a BBQ, but if he intends to get signed with a record label and tour and make money on it -- it ain't happening. I think he's gotten enough exposure thru his fundie fan base and Bringing up Bates, that he can and SHOULD take advantage of it to get a job in Nashville in the music industry. There's enough behind the scenes production work or he could do lighting/stage management for live shows - which there are a ton of in Nashville; I imagine someone in town will be willing to hire him and allow him to learn on the job and will guide him to taking some courses/getting any certifications he may need. It wouldn't be a bad way to make a living, it would keep him around music which he seems to love, and he could continue to write on the side and would know enough producers etc. that he'd have a shot at selling a song or two. I think those are more viable options than becoming the next Luke Bryan or whoever.

I say the same thing every time though -- there's a lot of genuine love in that family. I love how Zach said - impressing your big brother is the hardest thing, but he was impressed. I also love how Lawson was running out the doors to wherever he needed to be for the record signing and he ran by Gil who grabbed his arm and pulled him in for a hug to say congratulations. I love that they are happy for him bc he is achieving what he wants - whether it's what they would have chosen for him or not.

[SongbirdHollow]

I don't think he has any delusions of grandeur. He would probably be better off doing small scale music ministry or music director of a church than wasting time in Nashville.

[sATL]

Here's a Fox News Article of Lawson & his music career- dated Jan/2017... nice looking pix for the young single women (link).

I wonder did he consider (or already has) developed a fan base by releasing songs on Instagram / iTunes /YouTube ? The younger-mainstream crowd  stroll those sources more  so than awaiting for or paying for a live concert. UPN and the show is too small of a crowd.

Edited February 18, 2017 by sATL

[Sew Sumi]

I'm pretty sure that his albums are on iTunes.

[SongbirdHollow]

I didn't realize he relocated to Nashville. Maybe he does think he can be a star. Too bad it ain't gonna happen.

[Sew Sumi]

The article says that he moved to Nashville at 19. He's obviously back home now; we've seen his "closet" on the show fairly recently. 

[farmgal4]

On February 17, 2017 at 11:06 PM, cereality said:

Yeah -- wow -- he cannot sing. I mean he'd be fine leading a family sing along at a BBQ, but if he intends to get signed with a record label and tour and make money on it -- it ain't happening. I think he's gotten enough exposure thru his fundie fan base and Bringing up Bates, that he can and SHOULD take advantage of it to get a job in Nashville in the music industry. There's enough behind the scenes production work or he could do lighting/stage management for live shows - which there are a ton of in Nashville; I imagine someone in town will be willing to hire him and allow him to learn on the job and will guide him to taking some courses/getting any certifications he may need. It wouldn't be a bad way to make a living, it would keep him around music which he seems to love, and he could continue to write on the side and would know enough producers etc. that he'd have a shot at selling a song or two. I think those are more viable options than becoming the next Luke Bryan or whoever.

I say the same thing every time though -- there's a lot of genuine love in that family. I love how Zach said - impressing your big brother is the hardest thing, but he was impressed. I also love how Lawson was running out the doors to wherever he needed to be for the record signing and he ran by Gil who grabbed his arm and pulled him in for a hug to say congratulations. I love that they are happy for him bc he is achieving what he wants - whether it's what they would have chosen for him or not.

I think it's impressive that Gil and Kelly WANT their children to succeed and be happy.  That's certainly doesn't seem to be the case with Boob and MEchelle.

[iluvobx]

I believe that Lawson still lives in Nashville and comes home frequently.  Not a hard drive running up and down I-40.   The drive is less than 3 hours.

[Sew Sumi]

Then why is he stashing 50 pairs of boots at home? Going off of his Instagram, he's pretty much always home, and all of his concerts have been local to the Bateses' residence in Eastern TN.

Edited February 20, 2017 by Sew Sumi

[gunderda]

On 2/17/2017 at 8:13 AM, sATL said:

What was all that business with the tickets? Most concerts at churches either you come in the door at sit wherever (within reason) or they just take the ticket the door, maybe give you a stub back - ie "old school" . Scanning like you are at a major concert/athletic venue is a little beyond where Lawson is now. 

The look on Kellie's face when someone asked her to direct people out then back in, so they can be scanned, was priceless !

They have to practice for when he's hit in big ;) HA!

On 2/18/2017 at 10:40 AM, SongbirdHollow said:

I don't think he has any delusions of grandeur. He would probably be better off doing small scale music ministry or music director of a church than wasting time in Nashville.

Oh I think he does... that guy does nothing but talk about his songs and touring and whatever else.  And bless his heart but he is not good enough to do this as a career.

[riverblue22]

I think it will be a long, long time before Lawson gets around to getting married to a woman.  I just don't think that is his thing but he'll probably cave at some point to make the family and the cult happy.

[flyingdi]

I think Lawson might make it in country music.  His core fan base seems to be 13 year old girls who find him attractive in a vaguely sexual but non threatening way.  They have power, they are the ones who made Justin Bieber happen.  They could make Lawson, talent or not.

[gunderda]

yea.... but... Bieber might be a complete shithead (or was, has he grown up yet?) but he actually DOES have talent =/ 

[Fallacy]

I enjoyed watching all the fundie young women lining up for the picture and autograph with Lawson. I bet every single one of them was wishing he would pick her, but Lawson is way too into himself and his "music" to be interested in anyone else right now. He might go for someone like Emily, that girl from the Voice, but there is no way he's going to marry anyone who isn't at least as much of a celebrity as he thinks he is.

I don't even dislike Lawson, especially, and I appreciate how much he wants to succeed in music, but he really isn't that naturally talented. He can carry a tune, but only if he focuses on every note and uses every bit of vocal training he's had. He's not a terrible singer either, so if he can sell some cds and make a living at it, more power to him. He's just never going to be a big country Christian singer/star. 

Also, Carly was right; she didn't sound great on that song either. Much like Lawson, she can carry a tune but she has pitch issues too and every note feels calculated and forced. 

Overall, even with the not so great singing, I still enjoyed this episode because I can't help but like this family even though I disagree with literally everything they believe. The Bates are damn likable people. 

[sATL]

I said this about another offspring embarking on a singing career that bears repeating here..

It must be a hard conversation for an parent , who has made it a strong-personal mission to let their child attempt to enter into the entertainment industry, to later tell their child that they don't have "it".... "Baby you know I luv' you... but you can't _____ and need to pursue something else".

There was a look on Gill's face for a slight second ( 24 min in) that said a little more than "I'm a proud papa". Kinda a look of "huh/concern" .it was after the verse "who let the truther in rough clothes and tough drinks on his breath..."

(1) didn't know truther was a valid word...

(2) what does Lawson know about "tough drinks on someone's breath" ? When one is early in their career, it is better if they sing songs from their heart/experiences. Probably not many folks in the audience have had a "tough drink".

Lawson has enough friends and siblings to help out with stuff like lighting and overall show management. Actually being in a church, you would think the church would had someone working the lights.

Edited February 23, 2017 by sATL

[cereality]

Kelly looked so happy to be back in her hometown and esp. at her high school. I had no idea that her parents were divorced, she was raised separately from her siblings bc she stayed with her mom and dad had the rest, and that she grew up relatively "normal." I knew she and Gil went to high school and college (bc I think they met in college). But sounds like she really liked school and did well -- as she's always told the kids she was near the top of her class in what sounded like a 700+ person class.

She seemed thrilled to see her teachers and sit in the science classroom. I only wish they'd give their kids that option of being "school kids" for that fleeting time in your life where your only "job" is being a student -- studying; finding a favorite teacher/class; making friends with your classmates; growing up together etc. I know this family is a lot more "reasonable" that some other fundies in that they allow -- and even seem to encourage -- their kids to go to the nearby college. So they do have some chance to take classes just bc they sound interesting, find an inspiring teacher/mentor, and meanwhile hang out with their peers. I only wish they'd allow that option before age 18. They could even make it an option -- whoever wants to go to public school for K-12 or even a few yrs can, but if you don't want to -- you can still homeschool. Their kids are an outgoing bunch who don't seem to view all outsiders with mistrust -- I believe many/most would like K-12 school.

[riverblue22]

It really doesn't make sense.  Kelly had great teachers who taught her so much but her kids have to settle for just her.  She may be a good teacher but she can't bring the variety of learning that skilled teachers can.  Why doesn't she feel uncomfortable talking about this great science teacher she had while her kids are limited to what she knows about science and whatever program they use (hopefully not Wisdom booklets!)?  I wonder if some of the kids wished they could try going to school when their mom says hey look at this great school I got to go to but you don't!

[Absolom]

Kelly has said that she uses a variety of curriculum products to meet the kids' needs.  I don't think she ever thought Wisdom booklets were sufficient.

[cereality]

I think Kelly does try. I don't get the sense that her 14 yr olds are doing multiplication flashcards like their fundie friends in Arkansas. I imagine she has read up on her English, history, humanities over the years and can teach them. But it isn't easy to re-learn physics or chemistry or calculus just be reading up on it for the first time since 10th grade; and she appeared to love science labs yet it's not like she can build a chem lab at home.

I would love if this trip made an impression on even one kid. Warden on down are age 13 and younger. It would be great if one of them said - can I go to school in September for 8th grade just like mom (and I think dad too) did? I imagine that Kelly and Gil would hem and haw, but could very well say yes. They are fairly solid in their faith; don't seem scared to death that the kids will stray from their faith unless they are kept isolated; obviously cherish their own memories and friends from school and may not mind their kids having that. Plus the older kids -- and even Gil and Kelly -- have said that as they have gotten deeper and deeper into parenting, they have grown more flexible and open minded and less rigid. So while they may have said NO if Nathan had asked 10 yrs ago, I could see them considering -- well -- this particular kid would thrive in that kind of structure, maybe we allow it for this yr . . . . Though of course they'd have to ensure that the kid didn't take sex ed or anything . . . .

[sATL]

I'm amazed that Kelly's teachers were "available" for a visit. I haven't see the show yet - how many teachers did Kelly visit with ?

If she is 50, which means she graduated appx. 32 years ago,  (50-18) , right ?

So her youngest teacher, would have to  just started their career after college, appx. 22 (18 + 4 yrs of college) + 32, that is 54.

I guess I am thinking back, I didn't have that many early-in-career teachers in high school - early career teachers seem to be in elementary . I went to a large city public school system, where I wouldn't be surprised, if there were a lot of politics/seniority to teach certain classes, like algebra, chemistry, American authors (English), so you could get the "better" (academic and behavior) students. Back then you could get out of high school, with just general math/geometry - meaning not everyone took algebra.

Even in today's HS world, I don't think the newly college grads are teaching classes like the APs.

Sad, to say, I don't think I could call the roll, on this side of heaven, of some (most) of my HS teachers, today. Let me find my HS yearbook. I guess this episode is a testimony to people are living much longer now.

Edited February 24, 2017 by sATL

[sATL]

3 hours ago, riverblue22 said:

It really doesn't make sense.  Kelly had great teachers who taught her so much but her kids have to settle for just her.  She may be a good teacher but she can't bring the variety of learning that skilled teachers can.  Why doesn't she feel uncomfortable talking about this great science teacher she had while her kids are limited to what she knows about science and whatever program they use (hopefully not Wisdom booklets!)?  I wonder if some of the kids wished they could try going to school when their mom says hey look at this great school I got to go to but you don't!

Agree. I thought the very same thing when I first heard Gil's early-life story from Papa Bill . I think it was the 1hr thanksgiving episode . Gil was the school "jock" . Excelled and did well in multiple sports. ran miles on the rural road to keep in shape. I'm not sure if he played anything in college,though.

Now fast forward, and he has 9 sons. And Gil wanted them to "focus on the Lord" and not sports. I think it was his brother who said that. I know this is a stereotype, so I apologize if I offend - but most dads, who were the "star" in a sport, at least would want their sons (and probably their daughters) to at least try out for something and probably would be glad to coach the team. Even Jeb/Judson, would be on a t-ball/ rec soccer team of the guys I know. And I don't know why Gil would think a person couldn't be godly and play a sport at the same time. What does that say about of all of the prep/college/professional athletes  - they're not godly ?

I felt bad for the older boys, especially Zach who was a little out of shape at the time, wasn't given the opportunity to at least play a sport. I'm pretty sure homeschool kids have the option of trying out for their attendance-area school(s) sports team - I know that was on the agenda of our school board meeting years back.

Edited February 24, 2017 by sATL

[SongbirdHollow]

5 hours ago, sATL said:

And I don't know why Gil would think a person couldn't be godly and play a sport at the same time. What does that say about of all of the prep/college/professional athletes  - they're not godly ?

I would imagine that this was Gothard's influence on him. Now that they are inching away from him, there may be hope for the younger ones.

[cereality]

Are the parents officially inching away from Gothard? I assumed it was a case of parents getting older and more confident in their child rearing and thus obsessing less re raising child no. 10 the perfect way than they did with no. 3. I also imagined the inlaws have had an impact - Whitney, John, and Bobby are all fundie lite and I think Gil and Kelly still consider them to be perfectly good inlaws and spouses for their fundie kids. So maybe they're realizing that you can raise kids to be quite conservative still without driving them nuts and isolating them. School may be more of an issue but I think if one of the kids came to Gil and said he wanted to play basketball or football like Dad and like John - who is supposed to be a good athlete also - I don't see him saying no right away and sending the kid to pray. I think he'd try to make it happen. Didn't he take one of his GIRLS to play tennis bc she had been asking?? I mean that's damn near re revolutionary for a fundie dad.

Edited February 24, 2017 by cereality

[PradaKitty]

I do think Kelly is equipped to home school her children if that's what they want. She has an education and is smart enough to see that her kids learn a curriculum. She hasn't had her older children teaching the younger children, so it appears they are all receiving a good education, based on her love of education.  The family just seems more functional than the Duggars, with their egocentric undereducated parents. 

[Sew Sumi]

7 hours ago, SongbirdHollow said:

I would imagine that this was Gothard's influence on him. Now that they are inching away from him, there may be hope for the younger ones.

They are NOT inching away from Gothard. Gil remains on the IBLP board of directors, and they continue to speak at the ATI Homeschoolers Conferences. They just spoke at one last month in Australia. Kelly may not be using Wisdumb Booklets, but they are certainly still utilizing other Gothard teachings. 

John is not fundie-lite. He was also raised Gothard. His Congressman father has Gothard learning materials in the schools in his district. 

[SongbirdHollow]

10 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

They are NOT inching away from Gothard. Gil remains on the IBLP board of directors, and they continue to speak at the ATI Homeschoolers Conferences. They just spoke at one last month in Australia. Kelly may not be using Wisdumb Booklets, but they are certainly still utilizing other Gothard teachings. 

John is not fundie-lite. He was also raised Gothard. His Congressman father has Gothard learning materials in the schools in his district. 

Fair enough. I just meant they seem open to relaxing some rules based on the courting stuff we have seen. 

[sadtvjunkie]

I wish people would get off this kick that if you homeschool you are stupid or your kids will be stupid. Yes, you can have a full chemistry or biology lab in your home. I homeschooled my daughter and we did dissections as well. What I or my husband didn't know we farmed out to those who did. She graduated 2 years early with an AA degree and a 4.0 GPA, with a full ride scholarship and is now a Junior in University at 18. It can be done.

Kelly and Gil seem to care about their children and their futures so I'm sure she works at making sure they have an education. They don't seem ill-prepared to go into the world to me.

[riverblue22]

18 minutes ago, sadtvjunkie said:

I wish people would get off this kick that if you homeschool you are stupid or your kids will be stupid. Yes, you can have a full chemistry or biology lab in your home. I homeschooled my daughter and we did dissections as well. What I or my husband didn't know we farmed out to those who did. She graduated 2 years early with an AA degree and a 4.0 GPA, with a full ride scholarship and is now a Junior in University at 18. It can be done.

Kelly and Gil seem to care about their children and their futures so I'm sure she works at making sure they have an education. They don't seem ill-prepared to go into the world to me.

The most  impressive home school situations that I am aware of included co-op types of situations where parents would share their strengths and not be expected to teach every single subject.  I also know of a family who took advantage of junior college courses with their older students.  One of my daughter's acquaintances is currently a biomechanics PhD. student and her family certainly didn't settle for a Bates type education.  She actually finished high school at 16 and then went to community college for a while.  When she was 18 they sent her to Liberty University, but she soon quit because the academics didn't measure up for her. I don't think the Bates bring in any outside expertise or consider community college as an option.  I don't see the Bates family offering any options for a student that might be gifted in math or science.  I'm sure Kelly Bates is a smart woman, but I doubt she is the greatest physics, calculus, or chemistry teacher.

It will be interesting to watch Callie grow up.  That little girl is smart as a whip.

[lookeyloo]

2 hours ago, sadtvjunkie said:

I wish people would get off this kick that if you homeschool you are stupid or your kids will be stupid. Yes, you can have a full chemistry or biology lab in your home. I homeschooled my daughter and we did dissections as well. What I or my husband didn't know we farmed out to those who did. She graduated 2 years early with an AA degree and a 4.0 GPA, with a full ride scholarship and is now a Junior in University at 18. It can be done.

Kelly and Gil seem to care about their children and their futures so I'm sure she works at making sure they have an education. They don't seem ill-prepared to go into the world to me.

I think the thing is that the Duggars and their ilk (maybe less so the Bateses) only teach from the Gothard approved script.  Not all homeschooled children, obviously, to me at least, but, their kind.  Pioneer woman home schools her children. She said because the commute was so long first to the end of their road for the school bus and then to town and back again, they decided to home school and that show explains about the co-ops, etc. and the oldest daughter is in college.  totally different.

Or, as Jill would say, different...totally...

Edited February 24, 2017 by lookeyloo

[Sew Sumi]

2 hours ago, riverblue22 said:

The most  impressive home school situations that I am aware of included co-op types of situations where parents would share their strengths and not be expected to teach every single subject.  I also know of a family who took advantage of junior college courses with their older students.  One of my daughter's acquaintances is currently a biomechanics PhD. student and her family certainly didn't settle for a Bates type education.  She actually finished high school at 16 and then went to community college for a while.  When she was 18 they sent her to Liberty University, but she soon quit because the academics didn't measure up for her. I don't think the Bates bring in any outside expertise or consider community college as an option.  I don't see the Bates family offering any options for a student that might be gifted in math or science.  I'm sure Kelly Bates is a smart woman, but I doubt she is the greatest physics, calculus, or chemistry teacher.

It will be interesting to watch Callie grow up.  That little girl is smart as a whip.

Actually, I think Kelly can teach chemistry. She met Gil when she was his tutor in that subject. But I agree, the best homeschooling environments I've seen have been co-ops. An old high school friend of mine homeschooled their kids. Two ended up at Stanford. I can also vouch for homeschoolers in community college. When I went back to school in my 30's, I had to re-take several Gen Ed classes and met some charming young homeschooled kids. They were often the smartest kids in the room, myself included (especially if it was math LOL). 

[cereality]

John may have been RAISED Gothard - like Alyssa - but I think they are moving towards fundie lite for their own family, much like Zach and Whit. How else is he ok with his wife wearing jeans and tank tops? We've even seeing their baby daughter in jeans. How else is he ok with his wife publicly saying (in an ABC interview) that she can't imagine having more than 6-7 kids? Or saying to her sisters that she wants a gap between her kids -- she didn't get that but clearly they are using/considering using BC or even just NFP. I don't see him being fully Gothard now.

[Sew Sumi]

Lots of Gothardite females are wearing jeans these days. Look no further than Nathan's former girlfriend, Ashley. Marjorie Jackson. Clothes really mean very little when one is assessing the true religious beliefs of these people. Those beliefs haven't changed one iota, just their packaging. One of John's sisters works at Gothard HQ (and is Alyssa's BFF), another married a Keilen, another family steeped in the Gothard Kook Aid from stem to stern. 

The Bateses just do a better job at HIDING their most extreme beliefs on camera, which actually makes them more DANGEROUS, IMHO. What 13 year old girl who loves Lawson is going to do the research to find out about Gothard? Answer? Zero. 

[ranchgirl]

I remember watching a BUB episode awhile back where Nathan was messing around with wrestling and wanted to beat his father on the mat.  I think it was mentioned that Gil won state in wrestling when he was in high school.  (Or went to state.)  I can tell Nathan is an natural athlete, as is Trace and Zach probably was too.  (Lawson is too, but he also has that creative side so he has his guitar and singing as a hobby.)  After I watched that episode, I wished that Nathan had had the experience to play organized sports, even if with a homeschooling group.  He would have really excelled at that.  The younger boys (Jackson, Isiah and Warden) got to go to a basketball camp this past summer, only because Bobby was a counselor, but still.  I bet Nathan wished he had been able to do something like that. 

[sATL]

2 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

One of John's sisters works at Gothard HQ (and is Alyssa's BFF), another married a Keilen, another family steeped in the Gothard Kook Aid from stem to stern. 

Hold up.. one of John's sisters married one of Brandon's (Michaela husband) brothers ?

And back to this episode for a quick minute - how many old high school teachers did Kelly meet with ?

[sATL]

RE: the k-12 home-school lessons/pgm, that Kelly does (or uses as a base guideline), has there been any students who went on to a regular, fully accredited, 4 yr brick and mortar university to earn professional (RN-nurse, licensed k-12 teacher, accountant, engineer,  journalism, pre-law/pre-med, etc) degree ? 

I am trying to figure out are they not allowed to attend  OR allowed to, and choose not to, OR are they not academically prepared to do so. I think the counterparts in Ark. aren't academically ready. There's a couple in that crew I think would struggle taking the SAT/ACT. I'm not saying they have to go to an Ivy-league university, but they wear  the University of TN/AR gear, probably more than some alumni do.

Do they earn a high school diploma underwritten from the homeschool pgm, or the district they live in ? I kinda got the impression that they take something like the GED test.

Edited February 25, 2017 by sATL

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Lots of Gothardite females are wearing jeans these days. Look no further than Nathan's former girlfriend, Ashley. Marjorie Jackson. Clothes really mean very little when one is assessing the true religious beliefs of these people. Those beliefs haven't changed one iota, just their packaging. One of John's sisters works at Gothard HQ (and is Alyssa's BFF), another married a Keilen, another family steeped in the Gothard Kook Aid from stem to stern. 

The Bateses just do a better job at HIDING their most extreme beliefs on camera, which actually makes them more DANGEROUS, IMHO. What 13 year old girl who loves Lawson is going to do the research to find out about Gothard? Answer? Zero. 

This yes. The Bates do a much better job of hiding it. They come across as a mostly normal, loving family just bigger with a lot of cute kids and babies.  Zach became a cop, Lawson is trying to be a singer and the girls go to college. You'd never know unless you looked up that Lawson paid for their groceries, or Michaela potty trained her siblings, they used to have a Confederate Room with Nathan Bedford Forrest, Gil Bates is on the IBLP board of directors and named in the sexual abuse lawsuit along with Chad Paine's father.

[sATL]

14 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

This yes. The Bates do a much better job of hiding it. They come across as a mostly normal, loving family just bigger with a lot of cute kids and babies.  Zach became a cop, Lawson is trying to be a singer and the girls go to college. You'd never know unless you looked up that Lawson paid for their groceries, or Michaela potty trained her siblings, they used to have a Confederate Room with Nathan Bedford Forrest, Gil Bates is on the IBLP board of directors and named in the sexual abuse lawsuit along with Chad Paine's father.

Huh ??? I'm trying to remember what their original house looked like - before the Duggers   re-modeled it as it looks like today..

Edited February 25, 2017 by sATL

[andromeda331]

41 minutes ago, sATL said:

Huh ??? I'm trying to remember what their original house looked like - before the Duggers   re-modeled it as it looks like today..

On their blog, they posted a picture of portraits on Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson and Nathan Bedford Forrest on their wall, until people noticed and commented. The picture was removed and Kelly claimed it a "Patriots Room".  Odd that their "Patriot" room were all Confederates and the last also know for KKK. Kelly also claimed she had no idea who Nathan Bedford Forrest was.

[riverblue22]

5 hours ago, sATL said:

Hold up.. one of John's sisters married one of Brandon's (Michaela husband) brothers ?

And back to this episode for a quick minute - how many old high school teachers did Kelly meet with ?

Kelly met up with two teachers.  The first was a lady who was still teaching and I think was a newbie when she taught Kelly.  The other was her chemistry teacher who was quite elderly and I'm sure is retired.

[sATL]

3 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

3 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

On their blog, they posted a picture of portraits on Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson and Nathan Bedford Forrest on their wall, until people noticed and commented. The picture was removed and Kelly claimed it a "Patriots Room".  Odd that their "Patriot" room were all Confederates and the last also know for KKK. Kelly also claimed she had no idea who Nathan Bedford Forrest was.

 

1 hour ago, riverblue22 said:

Kelly met up with two teachers.  The first was a lady who was still teaching and I think was a newbie when she taught Kelly.  The other was her chemistry teacher who was quite elderly and I'm sure is retired.

 

thanks for the background story.

why would you hang anything on your wall that you didn't know what/who/its origin was. hmmm..

Still teaching! That's impressive. I too am from a graduating high school class of the early 1980s. ?

Edited February 25, 2017 by sATL

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, sATL said:

thanks for the background story.

why would you hang anything on your wall that you didn't know what/who/its origin was. hmmm..

Still teaching! That's impressive. I too am from a graduating high school class of the early 1980s. ?

Yeah, I doubt they didn't know. Still teaching is really impressive. My kindergarten teacher from the mid 1980 was also my uncle's teacher in elementary school thirty years before. About ten years ago the elementary school closed due to budget cuts. My uncle and aunt went to the school's farewell party and were surprised to find she was still there teaching and retired from that school.

[IndianPaintbrush]

It bugged when Erin said the people who opened their home to them were "true southerners."  Yeah, because that would never happen outside the south. I can't imagine many people would shut the door on a prior homeowner who just wanted to reminisce, although the cameras and # of people were a bit much.

Edited February 26, 2017 by IndianPaintbrush

[lookeyloo]

16 hours ago, IndianPaintbrush said:

It bugged when Erin said the people who opened their home to them were "true southerners."  Yeah, because that would never happen outside the south. I can't imagine many people would shut the door on a prior homeowner who just wanted to reminisce, although the cameras and # of people were a bit much.

Agreed.  And for goodness sake, they want us to believe they just showed up with a TLC camera crew out of nowhere?   Of course this was planned, produced, rehearsed, etc.