S01.E03: Rolling Thunder Cannon Punch

[Tara Ariano]

Or "Roots"? IDK, that's what Wikipedia says today.

Edited March 17, 2017 by The Crazed Spruce
Added title

[The Crazed Spruce]

Quote

Joy proves herself a shrewd businessperson, Danny recalls a painful memory, and Colleen puts her talents to good use.

[zxy556575]

Gee, I'm so tense about that cliffhanger.

I took @Nick Rheinwald-Jones at his word and quickly scanned through the first two episodes to get the gist, but it's not really getting any better for me after #3. The entire asylum detour was especially painful. It would help if Ward and his pill-popping, day drinking self went for a long sea voyage.

Colleen Wing is a much more interesting character to me, as well as a more believable fighter.

It was great to see Jeri again, but that's an awful lot of bad dialog and soap opera acting to sift through to get to her.

I hate Danny's look for no good reason. I looked up the actor and he's a handsome man, so not sure who decided to style him like an elf.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Lord Donia

[Primetimer]

In S01.E03, the show’s most boring character becomes a key player.

View the full article

[xqueenfrostine]

Hurray for Hogarth and a very small cameo from Madame Gao giving me at least some reason to be interested in what's happening in this series.   I really enjoyed seeing Jeri again, but it's kind of sad that characters established in other series are far more interesting than the major characters of this series.  I continue to be somewhat intrigued by Harold's inprisonment, especially now that it's been revealed that Gao's involved, but I am already tired of Danny bumbling his way through the plot.  They've got to find a way to make him seem like a more compelling character, because Finn Jones is not charismatic enough to sell this blandly written character on his own.  

Colleen is getting a little more interesting, though I was a little put off by her decision to go into cage fighting considering she had just hassled one of her students for doing the same.  It was gross of her to threaten her recommendation for a scholarship for a kid, when it's clear he's not fighting for money just for kicks.  Do better Colleen.  She did somewhat redeem herself when she chewed Danny out for being a dick to her students.  I know the monks in Kun L'un weren't good role models for how to treat children (that scene where they beat child Danny was super uncomfortable), but he spent enough time in our world to know that the object of normal martial arts classes isn't to train "warriors."

Edited March 17, 2017 by xqueenfrostine

[Cthulhudrew]

Lots of comments saying the show is boring or slow paced, but to me it is still interesting. Yes, so far the stakes are much lower than in some of the other shows, but it is more personal, too. I think they are packing a lot of story into the 45 minutes to an hour of each episode. It's hard to believe I'm only on episode 3, there has been so much going on. 

Add to that headlines about "the power of Iron Fist is White Privilege" and so on. Kind of makes me wonder if critics bothered to watch this show. Danny- at least so far- is very much about the rejection of privilege and discomfort at the concept of it. Jeri's comment about him being expected to be clean cut and well dressed because it's New York seemed an indictment of social mores rather than a celebration of them.

I do wish the fight scenes were better, though. I get that they wanted them to be more martial artsy and cinematic than in a show like, say, Daredevil where things are much more brutal and visceral. I just think they could accomplish it without making them so slow paced. They come across more like people in a practice session than people actually fighting.

I was wondering if somehow Harold was retarding his aging- he definitely seems way too young compared to Ward. Given Danny's reaction to seeing his picture, I think that is the case and maybe what tipped Danny off to thinking he hadn't hallucinated the visit at all.

Can't decide yet what Joy's deal is. She genuinely seems to care about Danny, yet the way she dealt with Patel seems to show a kind of callous dismissal of others. 

[xqueenfrostine]

59 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Add to that headlines about "the power of Iron Fist is White Privilege" and so on. Kind of makes me wonder if critics bothered to watch this show. Danny- at least so far- is very much about the rejection of privilege and discomfort at the concept of it.

 The character of Iron Fist is a product of his time.  He was developed specifically to be the white version of an Asian archetype (the kung fu master), because they wanted to sell comic books to an audience that they didn't think would be able to identify with a character that wasn't white.  That's why it's impossible to entirely separate the character from the topic of White privilege.  It's in the character's DNA.  

I don't have much interest in adding to the discussion of whether Danny should have been rewritten as an Asian character, as I am ambivalent on the topic and because there are people who have much more intelligent things to say about it than I do.  But I can definitely see where the critics are coming from, and totally disagree that these criticisms would have been dismissed if someone had watched enough of the show.  I'm 5 episodes in and can absolutely see where they're coming from.  There have been at least a handful of moments that left me cringing.  It doesn't matter if Danny the character personally wants to reject his privilege, because privilege can't just be rejected.  It's something that's conferred upon you by others.

[wayne67]

3 hours ago, xqueenfrostine said:

It doesn't matter if Danny the character personally wants to reject his privilege, because privilege can't just be rejected.  It's something that's conferred upon you by others.

It does matter if Danny rejects privilege because it's a testament to his character. If the only thing that matters is other people's expectations then he might as well just take the silver spoon and not bother to be a defender of the little people. 

If he chooses to spend his time and money on defending Kung Lung and protecting people even though he could be spending it on hookers and blow then that means something. He's taking the harder option. That's more meaningful than what other people expect of him due to his family name and skin color.

Of course these days... All people care about is race because instead of looking for commonalities, they focus on points of division like skin color and background. So sad and shortsighted. 

That said, Danny is an idiot, like most protagonists, blundering around using his fists and trusting people he shouldn't be trusting for reasons that are flimsy at best. I really do hope he has a haircut and a crash course on business strategy or the Art of War or something to progress his character.

[Bec]

That flowers, oranges and incense on Joy's doorstep was pretty weird. I can only speak for what we do in Hong Kong (maybe it's different elsewhere in Asia), but uh, you set up stuff like that on a doorstep, it's strictly for spirits, not for people who are very much alive. Good thing Joy's not Chinese or she would have been pissed like "are you trying to say that I'm going to die soon?"

Most of the stuff Danny says about Buddhism is just nonsense. But it's about what you'd expect from a fantasy story. Chinese fantasy stories also make stuff up about Buddhism like 90% of the time.

This show is taking itself way too seriously. But it's unintentionally hilarious!

I don't think the fight choreography is that bad. It's not blowing me away like Daredevil did, but it's not glaringly awful, either. I've seen worse.

Yep, so far my opinion of the show has upgraded from "meh" to "it's alright, I've seen worse".

[thuganomics85]

Hogarth!  I heard that she was going to pop up on this show, but I was surprised how quickly it was.  Her connection to Danny's father might have been a bit obvious and pat, but I'll take it.  I almost felt bad for Ward, but I knew as that there was no way Jeri would even have that meeting unless she knew she had them, so that was hilarious to watch.  Danny might not be right about a lot of stuff, but he at least was wise to pick her as his lawyer!

So, this was the episode that I knew got a lot of complaints in the reviews, due to the whole scene where Danny "schools" Colleen at the dojo, and even ends up teaching her a new move, that she uses later on.  Not sure if I'm invested enough to really get offended, but it was pretty cliched and eye-rolling.  I know Danny is suppose to be a bit full of himself, but he just hasn't jumped out at me enough to make me OK with his "zen master" schick.

Just like with Mariah and Cornell on Luke Cage, I'm starting to wonder if my initial opinions are off, and Joy is actually the real dangerous one of the Meachums kids.  The way she got that  guy to sell the pier was something!  But she was the one gave Danny/Jeri the bowl, right?  What is her game, here?

Seems like Harry really is in deep with The Hand.  It was crazy seeing him actually fearful when Madame Gao (that was totally her!) showed up.

Colleen's adventures into cage fighting seems a bit weird, but whatever, I still find her more interesting to watch then Danny.

The fights scenes just feel strange to me.  They really do feel less realistic, and more like they are practicing.  A lot of it could be that the actors are clearly doing a lot of it themselves, but there were several times on Daredevil where I could tell Charlie Cox was doing his own fights, and they still felt way more natural.  Is done stunt team just lacking or are the actors here just not as adapt as the ones on Daredevil?

Edited March 18, 2017 by thuganomics85

[The Crazed Spruce]

Please keep the discussion in this thread to the episode at hand. 

[NorthstarATL]

18 hours ago, xqueenfrostine said:

but it's kind of sad that characters established in other series are far more interesting than the major characters of this series

And a character that was changed quite drastically from the comic book version, which is more an indictment of the source material.

That said, I always enjoy Carrie Moss, and, since IF was Hogarth's first appearance in the comics, I assumed she would be integral to this series. Still not understanding why Danny insists upon insinuating himself into Colleen's life, as she hasn't done anything thus far to encourage it. In the comics there is a reason for their getting to know one another, but here it's just forced.

11 hours ago, xqueenfrostine said:

He was developed specifically to be the white version of an Asian archetype (the kung fu master), because they wanted to sell comic books to an audience that they didn't think would be able to identify with a character that wasn't white.

Sorry, but that makes no sense. Marvel was publishing Shang chi at the same time, and that character, Asian as all get out, was a much better seller than IF.

[DavidJSnyder]

I liked Carrie Ann Moss, but I don't think her back story here makes any sense, and it bugs me more than some of the other stuff because I like her. She was an intern at a card table in a copy room at Rand Enterprises?  Rand doesn't look like a card table place.  And this was recently enough that Danny can remember it.  And she went from that to managing the Rand Estate?

Edited March 18, 2017 by DavidJSnyder
Typo

[JustaPerson]

On 3/17/2017 at 2:57 PM, xqueenfrostine said:

Colleen is getting a little more interesting, though I was a little put off by her decision to go into cage fighting considering she had just hassled one of her students for doing the same.  

I think it's a different case for Colleen, since she's an adult (and I presume the student is a teen) and much more practiced in martial arts than he is.

ETA: I liked the realistic aspects of Colleen's cage match. There were a couple of moves that didn't work because the guy she was fighting was so much bigger than her and she had to adjust.

Edited March 18, 2017 by JustaPerson

[calliope1975]

I have mixed feelings about this show. It's not good yet I'm still watching it. Nice to see Hogarth again. I'm much more interested in Joy and Colleen than Danny. Danny/FJ isn't very compelling to watch, and his naivete is annoying even if understandable. 

I did roll my eyes at Danny when he angrily lectured the students on respecting the dojo while standing there in shoes. I don't even practice martial arts and I know you don't wear shoes in the dojo.

[benteen]

Nice to see Hogarth pop up, who really gives this show a shot in the arm.  I was mixed on this episode after really liking the second one.  WTF with both Danny AND the Meachums remembering an old injury at the same time?  Danny nearly getting killed against some random muscle doesn't exactly help his cause either.  Not to mention coming off like a weird ass in the dojo.  Don't get what made Colleen decide to do the fight...feel like there was a scene missing there.

Edited March 19, 2017 by benteen

[palmaire]

The flashbacks are another (disliked) similarity to Arrow for me. Against my better judgment, I'm still watching to learn what precipitated Danny's decision to return home and his ultimate goal in doing so, and how he traveled. Surely he wouldn't have been allowed to board a plane in bare feet. Buy some cheap flip flops from a shop at the airport, dude.

18 hours ago, NorthstarATL said:

Still not understanding why Danny insists upon insinuating himself into Colleen's life, as she hasn't done anything thus far to encourage it.

Right? I can only assume it's romantic attraction on his part. The fucking chase.

[wayne67]

Well considering the only other person that was friendly to him was that other homeless guy who died fairly quickly, Colleen has been the only one that showed him any kindness since arriving 'home. She's got common interests what with the dojo and the martial arts training; not that surprising he's trying to build upon that. 

Also she's probably prettier than the monks at Kun Lung. That said romances are boring and predictable on comic book shows. 

[tennisgurl]

I thought Coleen's cage fight was the best fight they've done so far. I also thought it was nice to see a realistic fight between a relatively petite woman and a giant muscle bound dude. She had trouble just based around the actual size differences, and only won because she had superior training and used Dannys magic ninja move. It was more realistic than fights where a woman is throwing guys around that are three times her size without breaking a sweat. Coleen clearly had to work to get the win. Also, for an illegal underground cage fight, they seem to have a decently solid structure to their fights, and at least some enforced rules to keep people from getting too hurt.

Hiring Hogarth really was probably the smartest thing that Danny has done so far. Looks like we might be done with the "Who is Danny?" arc now that Hogarth is there.  He was a major dick in the dojo, but I guess that was how he learned, so it kind of made sense. I just hope he learns to stop being such an asshole about his skills.

I feel like by the end of the show, Ward will have either had a change of heart or a total break down, and Joy will turn out to be the real threat. Maybe dad should have used her as his lacky instead of twitchy Ward.

[jeansheridan]

How couldn't you comment on that hilarious ending? Danny has no spidey sense at all! And I liked the cage fight. Very rough and physical. I want to see her fight Dare Devil now.

[ElleMo]

I just watched 5 episodes in 2 days. I am having hard time remembering what happened in which episode, since they were just one big episode.  I think the homeless guy died in this episode.  

 

Does anyone think this will come back to haunt him?  Danny took the needle out of the guy's arm so his prints are on it.  Further complications down the line when he gets charged with murder?  Also, any significance  to the eagle tattoo.

I was excited to see Jeri.  Too bad she 

Spoiler

didn't have Foggy with her.  I would have been fun to see him too.

Edited March 20, 2017 by ElleMo

[Kel Varnsen]

This episode sèemed to pick things up for me. The villains seemed to have a point and there were a couple of good fight scenes. Plus Geri Hogarth (who is awesome) and Madame Gao (who i didn't realize was associated with the Hand, i thought just Nobu was).

Plus Joy has gotten a hell of a lot more interesting, the hospital bit was crazy. Plus I liked her line about how she gave all her life to Rand and then Danny just shows up and gets to take over the company. Some interesting motivation.

Danny is still kind of dumb though and for a kung fu master he surprisingly got snuck up on twice El

[Starla]

Holy cow, I'm embarrassed to admit that it took me three episodes to realize Danny is Loras "cutie-pie" Tyrell from Game of Thrones. At least I figured out in the first episode that that evil dad is Faramir, and decided to keep watching just for him despite the fact that his son is awful (actor and character).

I like the premise despite some weird acting and pacing. I'm glad the mental institution story was over in one episode.

[AKA...CJ86]

The guest appearances made the episode for me.

Looks like things are picking up.  Glad the identity... I hope... is resolved.

[david gideon]

The scheming Meachum brother reminded of a lot of someone and then it came to me, he sounds and talks almost exactly like Agent Aubrey from Bones. They even look a bit similar.

[AudienceofOne]

"It's not about the money!!!" 

Then what is it about, Danny. Please tell me. It's episode 3. 

A plot, a plot, my kingdom for a plot. 

[Chas411]

The Meachum stuff is kind of interesting but the Rand/Wing martial arts school of Kung fu is just all kinds of embarrassing. I'm mortified for both actors having to act those scenes with a straight face. It's so cringe.