S05.E01: Amber Waves

[millennium]

13 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I think he referred to her in the past tense to show us he knows it's over. The relationship is over. The time in his life when Sandra's going to be giving him insight is over. The line about remembering her was a joke to Philip because he tried to beat him up over her. That was Stan's attempt to make light of that.

Interesting--why would you think he knows he's not his friend? Stan's definitely shown himself to sometimes have intuitions that he's not aware of consciously, and I think once he gets suspicious there will be a part of him that feels like he always knew. People always say there are no secrets about things like that. But I don't get a lot of signs from Stan that he's ever specifically had to brush aside the feeling that Philip isn't his friend. He has moments where he seems like he's curious/suspicious of some things, like when he asked about Philip and Elizabeth going away unexpectedly or asked Henry about whether he asked his father about women the way he was asking Stan. Like there are certain things he instinctively asks for more information about. But the only sign I can think of where Stan seems to see Philip as the enemy is that scene when he accused him of sleeping with Sandra. That showed that Stan at least seemed to think it was possible that Philip could actually be against him, but I don't know whether that came from a general feeling of paranoia on Stan's part or him specifically having doubts about Philip deep down.

After all, Philip actually has been a good friend to him, and not in a way that's just about manipulation.  He gave him a deal on a vacation to help his marriage, gave him a refund when it didn't work out, opens his house to him for dinner at a moment's notice, trusts Stan with his kids. Even unbeknownst to Stan he was partly responsible for Matthew being back in his life (okay, that part was probably about making things better after the EST thing). And he doesn't use the friendship to ask him about his work or anything like that. If Stan has suspicions I feel like they're more along the lines of the suspicions he had in that first ep--that he feels something "off" about him because Philip seems like a really open, friendly guy but he's actually really closed off. Like I think underneath he probably thinks there's more going on with Philip than meets the eye and he pushes those thoughts away. The one time Stan got angry at him it was actually over a real friend thing. That is, it wasn't that Philip was doing anything against Stan, he was trying to fix his own emotional problems and Stan, rather than having any interest in what Philip might get from EST, just made it about him.

I think it does too. The cop whose great at his job but has a terrible homelife is a pretty common type and it makes to me with Stan. Really, he chose Philip as a friend surely in part because he thinks he has nothing to do with his job, so he's almost consciously allowed himself to be pathetic with these people. And Philip encourages him to see him as non-threatening, which is why it was such a problem when he thought he was sleeping with Sandra. The second Philip tried to find his own real relationship and emotional comfort (in EST and Sandra) it was a problem. Because he can't get that vulnerable with Stan.

I don't think Stan views Philip as an enemy per se, but as someone he should not completely trust.   I think subconsciously he sees the holes in Philip and Elizabeth's legend but hasn't put it together yet, perhaps because his need for a friend outweighs his need to be a cop 24/7.   Maybe when doubts surface he tells himself the job's getting to him because now he's even suspecting the people next door of being up to no good.

[scowl]

I'm glad the show has started off with some things sort of specific to Soviet philosophy instead of being the generic spy action drama show it turned into over the seasons. I'm hoping they'll stick with it. 

[millennium]

Not to get political, but this show couldn't ask for better publicity than current events.

[RedFiat]

10 hours ago, millennium said:

I don't think Stan views Philip as an enemy per se, but as someone he should not completely trust.   I think subconsciously he sees the holes in Philip and Elizabeth's legend but hasn't put it together yet, perhaps because his need for a friend outweighs his need to be a cop 24/7.   Maybe when doubts surface he tells himself the job's getting to him because now he's even suspecting the people next door of being up to no good.

Stan has so many disappointments that I think he's shell shocked and trying to regain his footing. To me, Stan is off kilter mentally because of everything that's happened...retreating into guy banter with a buddy because it's easier than facing the truth  about his betraying everyone with and about  Nina,  or being gobsmacked and guilty that Frank Gaad, is dead rather than enjoy a decent retirement , Oleg... possibly a kindred spirit also gone for good.  And then to watch Crandall die a slow soul and physically crushing death last season, literally Stan and Alderholt watching him like an audience watching the Soviet experiment expire before their eyes. Crandall hated everything he's become and yet he still had that deeply ingrained loyalty to his country not to give Stan any secrets. .  

Stan has to think that was a commitment he could never know.

Early in season 1 Stan had a suspicion about the Jennings, even checked out their car. But those FBI days of confidence and certainty somehow became muted with his first betrayal. Working an asset and falling in love with her wasn't in the playbook. Then seeing her off to her demise changed him. All that baggage Stan carries around will require a reckoning but how high will the price be before Stan will face it?  I worry he might have to pay with his kid. If that boy learns and shares what Paige's family is really up to, the first instinct at least from Elizabeth, is that she will act fast to neutralize the danger. Yet this could be confounded by Mischa entering the picture, leading her to finally question the cause.  

Elizabeth has never been  close to Stan in the way Philip has, but Philip's son could do a lot to change the dynamic in the Jennings' life.. A lot are saying if Stan finds out about the Jennings secret life it's over for them.  Possibly. However the Jennings are resilient if nothing else. It's going to be a very interesting season. 

Edited March 12, 2017 by RedFiat

[gwhh]

Do you think Gabriel had permission or orders to send the Jennings home?  Or just did that on his own? 

[SlackerInc]

8 hours ago, millennium said:

Not to get political, but this show couldn't ask for better publicity than current events.

You would think so, but Joe and Joel have expressed frustration that said events threaten to undermine their intent to have audiences feel sympathetic toward the Soviet characters.

8 minutes ago, gwhh said:

Do you think Gabriel had permission or orders to send the Jennings home?  Or just did that on his own? 

His silence implied the latter, I thought.

[dr pepper]

I wonder if we'll ever revisit the technical gulag.

[Haleth]

I miss Martha.  I miss Nina.  I miss Gaad.  I miss Aderholt.  I miss Arkady.  I was afraid I'd be missing Oleg most of all until he popped up.  Yay! 

It's a good thing P&E knew exactly where to dig for William's body.  They weren't off by a foot, they hit the box dead center of the pit with plenty of space to stand next to it.  And it was great that they dug a perfect rectangle.  (Complaining about how shows do this was my very first post in the tv pet peeves thread.)

The theme of bounty vs hunger will be an interesting course for this season, especially seen through the eyes of people with varying degrees of dedication to the cause.

Quote

You would think so, but Joe and Joel have expressed frustration that said events threaten to undermine their intent to have audiences feel sympathetic toward the Soviet characters.

I have no sympathy for Phil & Liz.  I hope we see some progress toward their being discovered this season.  

Edited March 12, 2017 by Haleth

[sistermagpie]

8 hours ago, gwhh said:

Do you think Gabriel had permission or orders to send the Jennings home?  Or just did that on his own? 

I thought he did it on his own--so basically doing what he scolded Philip for when he arranged for Elizabeth to see her mother.

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

It's a good thing P&E knew exactly where to dig for William's body.  They weren't off by a foot, they hit the box dead center of the pit with plenty of space to stand next to it.  And it was great that they dug a perfect rectangle.  (Complaining about how shows do this was my very first post in the tv pet peeves thread.)

I believe that's because they were given a picture showing exactly where it was via some sort of satellite photo.

8 hours ago, SlackerInc said:

You would think so, but Joe and Joel have expressed frustration that said events threaten to undermine their intent to have audiences feel sympathetic toward the Soviet characters.

I find it annoying too because there's so many ways it doesn't relate to the show at all. Though for me it doesn't affect sympathy because of that one way or the other.

[Moose135]

2 hours ago, Haleth said:

I have no sympathy for Phil & Liz.  I hope we see some progress toward their being discovered this season.  

Same here - that's been my problem all along with this show, that the "heroes" are people I don't want to succeed.

[Clanstarling]

On 3/8/2017 at 2:25 PM, SlackerInc said:

It's actually quite clever. Yugoslavia was not part of the West, it was a communist country and mostly a Slavic one like the Soviet Union.  So it wouldn't be that strange for a Russian to go there to visit family.    But as someone pointed out upthread, it was also not aligned with the Warsaw Pact, did not have Soviet troops and once a Soviet citizen is there it should be easier to get to Western Europe.

In '66, my father, who was in the Air Force, decided that when we were re-posted to from Spain to Turkey, that we would just drive to Turkey. Partially because we could visit my mother's family in Austria. It was a bit tense at the Yugoslavian border, given that my father didn't see fit to remove the Stragetic Air Command sticker from our car. Nevertheless, I loved the people we met, who treated us well despite our obvious American military association. The wars in the 90's broke my heart.

On 3/8/2017 at 6:19 PM, maraleia said:

So the house has always been the same but they shot the exteriors from a different angle in previous seasons. The house is weird because IRL it's a three dwelling structure.

Thank you! I always thought it was strange, and finally decided it was a duplex. A multi-family structure seemed a little odd for spies with so many late night comings and goings.

On 3/10/2017 at 11:17 PM, magemaud said:

She also has the role of "Marjorie" a con artist on the Amazon series "Sneaky Pete." When I saw her I thought, "Uh oh, that means Martha won't be back on The Americans," but Margo Martindale has a major role on Pete and apparently she could appear in both shows. 

I had the same thought about Martha not returning, but now that you mention Margo (duh!) I have some hope we'll see her. I find her non-Martha look and accent more disconcerting than most actors. It seems she'll always be Martha to me.

I also thought the digging went on a little long, but I did have a moment where I was going "jeez how far down are they going to dig anyway" when I compared the height of the actors to the depth of the hole and had a "oh, so six feet under is pretty damn deep, isn't it?"

Edited March 12, 2017 by Clanstarling

[Blakeston]

On 3/11/2017 at 9:09 AM, Milburn Stone said:

You raise the possibility in my mind that the reason they are making Stan so soft and vulnerable this season, so gaga and goofy over Paige and Matthew's relationship, so needy of Philip's friendship, is so that his crisis will be all the more personal when he first begins to suspect the truth. And so his determination to bust the Jennings will be stoked by the fire of a thousand nuns, as they say on the internet.

It's funny - I could easily see Stan learning the truth and going berserk (like when his partner was killed in the first season, and he shot Vlad.) But I could also see him looking the other way, or even helping them escape detection. We've seen that he doesn't necessarily follow the rules when people he cares about are involved.

[chocolatine]

22 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

It's funny - I could easily see Stan learning the truth and going berserk (like when his partner was killed in the first season, and he shot Vlad.) But I could also see him looking the other way, or even helping them escape detection. We've seen that he doesn't necessarily follow the rules when people he cares about are involved.

My money is on going berserk. They've made him look bad time and time again. Philip turned his secretary right under his nose. Stan has been unraveling more and more each season. When he finds out about P&E, he's going to snap. 

[SlackerInc]

TIL from the insider podcast that after careful research on hole-digging, they had the "breaks" last twice as long as the digging shifts.  Each person dug for fifteen minutes and rested for thirty, rinse, repeat.

[chocolatine]

34 minutes ago, SlackerInc said:

TIL from the insider podcast that after careful research on hole-digging, they had the "breaks" last twice as long as the digging shifts.  Each person dug for fifteen minutes and rested for thirty, rinse, repeat.

Makes sense that there were six of them (P&E, poor Hans, and three helpers). That way there are always two people digging.

Edited March 12, 2017 by chocolatine

[SlackerInc]

Yeah, they said they try to avoid having "random Russians" that aren't really characters on the show, but they had to, to make the digging realistic. 

[ThoughtAFool]

On 3/8/2017 at 3:46 PM, Bannon said:

I'd like to see someone with knowledge of the subject confirm that bioweapons aren't destroyed via incineration.

Me too.  I was surprised by the "Do Not Burn" on the bag, so I googled it and found that cremation is the CDC recommendation for bodies of Ebola victims.

I know such things may not have been in place in 1984, but regardless, I would think that any facility doing biowarfare/biodefense research would have some plan in place for disposal of contaminated remains (I imagine more commonly research mice/rats/primates...) that is a little more secure than "bury them in a remote area where a team of people can work unobserved for hours to dig up the coffin".

[Superpole2000]

8 hours ago, Moose135 said:

Same here - that's been my problem all along with this show, that the "heroes" are people I don't want to succeed.

To be fair, though, that was the premise of the show from the start.

I don't know where I want the show to go this season, but I do think it would help if Dopey Stan started to become a little less dopey. The fettuccine alfredo stuff was cute, but I'm hoping he can bring a little more to the table (and I don't mean vegetables).

The Russian scenes are interesting, but I don't want to spend too much time there. We did that with Nina's last season, and it ended up being too disconnected from the main plot and mostly a waste of time.

[SlackerInc]

I like having a Russian side to the show, and per the showrunners on the podcast, they do too.

They also definitely have more of a desire for people to sympathize with Philip and Elizabeth than some people may be comfortable with.

[Ina123]

On ‎3‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 1:28 AM, SlackerInc said:

You would think so, but Joe and Joel have expressed frustration that said events threaten to undermine their intent to have audiences feel sympathetic toward the Soviet characters.

Sympathetic characters? No. I've never felt that. I guess their intent is wasted on me.

[SlackerInc]

6 minutes ago, Ina123 said:

Sympathetic characters? No. I've never felt that. I guess their intent is wasted on me.

So when they go through crises in their marriage, or Philip goes to EST and talks about his feelings, etc., what do those scenes make you feel?  I have a hard time imagining watching all that stuff for 4+ seasons if I didn't feel sympathy for them.

[Ina123]

3 minutes ago, SlackerInc said:

So when they go through crises in their marriage, or Philip goes to EST and talks about his feelings, etc., what do those scenes make you feel?  I have a hard time imagining watching all that stuff for 4+ seasons if I didn't feel sympathy for them.

Tuff luck, I guess? They are Russians out to destroy my country. I don't know how else to feel about them.

[SlackerInc]

28 minutes ago, Ina123 said:

Tuff luck, I guess? They are Russians out to destroy my country. I don't know how else to feel about them.

Okay, but you get that they aren't being presented dramatically the way villains normally would be...?

[Ina123]

Neither was Walter White, but he was still a bad person.

[sistermagpie]

3 hours ago, Ina123 said:

Neither was Walter White, but he was still a bad person.

I'd say Walter White was much more presented the way villains would normally be. He was an anti-hero motivated by ego, power and greed. Philip and Elizabeth are self-sacrificing and motivated by wanting to improve the world and protect their family and their country. I mean, Elizabeth herself has probably often said "Tuff luck, they're Americans out to destroy my country. I don't know how else to feel about them" too.

[Ina123]

Well, there ya go. I'm rooting for my country and they are rooting for theirs. So, no, I don't feel anything for them. Would I like to see them turned? Now that would be good.

[qtpye]

15 hours ago, ThoughtAFool said:

I know such things may not have been in place in 1984, but regardless, I would think that any facility doing biowarfare/biodefense research would have some plan in place for disposal of contaminated remains (I imagine more commonly research mice/rats/primates...) that is a little more secure than "bury them in a remote area where a team of people can work unobserved for hours to dig up the coffin".

My husband is very familiar with Lassa Fever and he said there is no way the body would not be burned during this time period.  He often suspends disbelief for this show, but this was handled really badly.  It ruined the whole episode for him.

[mostlylurking]

Maybe it was just me but I really got annoyed with Elizabeth saying Stan wasn't feeding the kids enough vegetables. Umm, he's feeding your kids which is more than you're doing, so maybe dial it back with the demands?? It was mentioned more than once too which got me even more irritated.

[kokapetl]

Philip and Elizabeth don't work 22 hours a day for private gain, they do it to make the world a better place. They are noble in spirit. 

[Milburn Stone]

3 hours ago, Ina123 said:

Well, there ya go. I'm rooting for my country and they are rooting for theirs. So, no, I don't feel anything for them. Would I like to see them turned? Now that would be good.

I'm certainly not going to even attempt to change your mind, but I'm "rooting for my country" too, yet I can relate to the human predicament that Philip and Elizabeth find themselves in. In fact, it's that complexity of emotion and allegiance that the show sets up in the viewer (this viewer, anyway) that has made it so compelling from the beginning.

[qtpye]

19 hours ago, ThoughtAFool said:

I'd like to see someone with knowledge of the subject confirm that bioweapons aren't destroyed via incineration.

My husband who was familiar with such subject matter said that this went far beyond a suspension of disbelieve and is starting to fall into asinine territory with the dig.

We watch another show together called "The Magicians".  He actually said that he believed an episode of that show more then this season opener.  We are talking about a program where ninety percent of the plot is literally explained with "A wizard did it".

[TaurusRose]

On 3/12/2017 at 9:49 AM, Haleth said:

I miss Martha.  I miss Nina.  I miss Gaad.  I miss Aderholt.  I miss Arkady.  I was afraid I'd be missing Oleg most of all until he popped up.  Yay! 

It's a good thing P&E knew exactly where to dig for William's body.  They weren't off by a foot, they hit the box dead center of the pit with plenty of space to stand next to it.  And it was great that they dug a perfect rectangle.  (Complaining about how shows do this was my very first post in the tv pet peeves thread.)

The theme of bounty vs hunger will be an interesting course for this season, especially seen through the eyes of people with varying degrees of dedication to the cause.

I have no sympathy for Phil & Liz.  I hope we see some progress toward their being discovered this season.  

Neither do I.  They are despicable people, trading places at any given time to which one I find the most heinous. I'm interested in seeing how this plays out in the end, but I've had very little sympathy for the Jennings or their marks.  I found Martha to be the biggest, most pathetic loser of them all.  That said, I do like Oleg and wonder what's going to happen with him.  And where is Aderholt?

[chocolatine]

Just now, Gabrielle Tracy said:

Chocolatine, when you lived in the USSR were you (or people in general, I guess) aware that the people in power had a completely different standard of living than everyone else?

I was still very young, so I wasn't aware of that. None of our extended family or friends were in any position of power (very few Jews were), so none of us had much. I'd never known anything other than empty store shelves, rationing, and standing in line; I thought that was how everyone lived.

We emigrated to Germany when I was 10, and when I started going to school there was the first time I became aware that people had different standards of living - my classmates lived in beautiful houses, wore brand-name clothing, and had stereos and TVs in their rooms, while my parents and I shared a one-bedroom apartment and got our clothes from the Red Cross. That was the first time I felt "poor".

[TaurusRose]

1 hour ago, Kokapetl said:

Philip and Elizabeth don't work 22 hours a day for private gain, they do it to make the world a better place. They are noble in spirit. 

Uh-huh.  Be that as it may, their idea of a better place and my idea of a better place are radically at odds, so no. I am not rooting for them or feeling sympathetic towards them or their kin.  I can watch the series and want to see the endgame without being Team Jennings (Russia).  

[crgirl412]

I felt bad for them at different times, more for Philip than Elizabeth for sure.  I still want to see them punished for killing innocent people.   

[lcarolynl]

11 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

I'm certainly not going to even attempt to change your mind, but I'm "rooting for my country" too, yet I can relate to the human predicament that Philip and Elizabeth find themselves in. In fact, it's that complexity of emotion and allegiance that the show sets up in the viewer (this viewer, anyway) that has made it so compelling from the beginning.

I so agree with you! I love that I'm drawn into their lives and feel their tension when they are in danger of being caught. Then I remember they're Soviet spies and working against my country's interests. As an adult I can see both sides and realize my attraction and interest in P and E's life, successes, and near misses can contrast nicely with my patriotic desire to see our enemies fail.

I think this is exactly what an adult drama is all about. Complex feelings of complex people living complex lives.

The great (but far too infrequent) sex scenes and the soundtrack take it even higher. This show is really, really good, taking us to difficult and complicated mindsets and I miss it during the off seasons.

[SlackerInc]

14 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

I'm certainly not going to even attempt to change your mind, but I'm "rooting for my country" too, yet I can relate to the human predicament that Philip and Elizabeth find themselves in. In fact, it's that complexity of emotion and allegiance that the show sets up in the viewer (this viewer, anyway) that has made it so compelling from the beginning.

Agreed.  And while I can absolutely understand why many people might quite justifiably find it difficult or impossible to sympathize with Philip and Elizabeth, I have great difficulty understanding why such people would enjoy watching this show.

[Clanstarling]

5 hours ago, lcarolynl said:

I so agree with you! I love that I'm drawn into their lives and feel their tension when they are in danger of being caught. Then I remember they're Soviet spies and working against my country's interests. As an adult I can see both sides and realize my attraction and interest in P and E's life, successes, and near misses can contrast nicely with my patriotic desire to see our enemies fail.

I think this is exactly what an adult drama is all about. Complex feelings of complex people living complex lives.

The great (but far too infrequent) sex scenes and the soundtrack take it even higher. This show is really, really good, taking us to difficult and complicated mindsets and I miss it during the off seasons.

I agree. And we all knew, from the start, they'd ultimately fail, given the time period, and Gorbachev due to take office in 1985. So we're (theoretically) going to see their world view totally shaken up. I'm looking forward to the complex emotions they're bound to have when Ronnie and Gorbie start being "friendly." Current events make that ultimate conclusion a little less satisfying, but still, this is a historical drama, even if it's fairly recent history (to some of us).

3 hours ago, SlackerInc said:

Agreed.  And while I can absolutely understand why many people might quite justifiably find it difficult or impossible to sympathize with Philip and Elizabeth, I have great difficulty understanding why such people would enjoy watching this show.

Puzzles me too.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Clanstarling

[Ina123]

4 hours ago, SlackerInc said:

....  And while I can absolutely understand why many people might quite justifiably find it difficult or impossible to sympathize with Philip and Elizabeth, I have great difficulty understanding why such people would enjoy watching this show.

Because, in the end, we know they failed.

[SlackerInc]

Did they, though?  The old KGB hand Putin has gotten away with more than anyone would have ever guessed.

[gwhh]

My grandparents and the generation of relatives of people who survived the depression did the same thing.

I thinks its funny the ex-former soviet clients people have a maid!     

On ‎3‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 1:46 AM, PinkRibbons said:

Well, last things first, watching this I remembered that tomorrow marks my family's 32nd anniversary of Exodus from the Soviet Union (and I'm not being hyperbolic; this is literally something we talk about during Seder). Apparently Chernenko dropped dead right after they got out and they just avoided the borders closing behind them.

Pasha's dad reminds me of my own, only less profane and a bit more simplistic than my Papa's complaints about the old USSR. My folks talk about it like they left something that had been dead and rotting around them for years while they were supposed to ignore it happening and pretend the smell wasn't there.

Speaking of which, man did those food shortages hit a nerve with me. To this day the biggest fights we have in our household is me insisting on throwing away uneaten food. My mother always feels like she'll find some use for everything, and it can sit there for ages. A cleaning lady we had once observed that all her former-Soviet clients had incredibly full pantries -- we have enough to feed a family of four for a month in dry goods alone. Honestly I'm surprised Elizabeth and Philip aren't compulsive food hoarders after their childhoods. I work with people their age (people who were kids during WW2), and now whenever our establishment gets its monthly food program delivery, not only to we get full turnout, but the fact that there was a line started panic the first few times. Walkers were used as weapons among the elderly. Seriously.

I'm not relishing the idea of Mini-Misha making his way to Philip, possibly because he represents a common fear a lot of us first-generation kids have: that our parents had other kids they left behind and kept secret. This kind of shit happens more than we like to think. His existence is going to be a nasty shock to Paige and/or Henry if they find out. I did think it was interesting that Henry actually kind of looks like Misha, or I think they're styling the two actors' hair similarly.

I could have done with about five minutes less of digging.

I can't wait to try out that Russian America The Beautiful on my parents.

[sistermagpie]

55 minutes ago, Ina123 said:

Because, in the end, we know they failed.

Although...the Cold War is the reason that characters do what they do, but how it ends quite possibly won't have anything to do with the characters at all. Nina desperately tried to stay alive, took a stand by trying to tell a prisoner's family he was alive, and was executed. Russia could have taken over the world and it wouldn't change Nina's story. Seems like a big part of the show is how these characters actually living this stuff day to day experience it in a very different way and deal more with the individuals than the two sides of the war. When they hurt the individual for the sake of the cause, they aren't happy about it. Stan might feel like he's lost everything even if/when he catches his prey. And even when the war does end, there's still going to be two countries trying to protect themselves etc. For Philip and Elizabeth, if they live that long, the end of the Cold War would in some ways just be more of the same--yet another betrayal and disillusionment they have to make sense of.

40 minutes ago, SlackerInc said:

Did they, though?  The old KGB hand Putin has gotten away with more than anyone would have ever guessed.

Guess it would depend on how P&E would think of Putin and his government if they lived to see it. For all we know they might be dissidents in Putin's Russia.

[Ina123]

1 hour ago, SlackerInc said:

Did they, though?  The old KGB hand Putin has gotten away with more than anyone would have ever guessed.

At the time, yes, they did.

What's happening today is not a result of sleepers in the 70s/80s. That's all been exposed and remember, the people the series is based on were discovered.

As to why someone who doesn't really "feel" for P & E watching and liking the show, it's  still entertainment. It's got fabulous acting and writing.

If I have any twinge of feeling at all, it's for Phillip, because he does actually like it here.

What gnaws at me is that damn mole on E's lip. No one who crosses paths with her ever says, "oh, and she had a mole on her lip." Say that around Stan and maybe, just maybe, see a lightbulb finally go off in the dimwits head. LOL.

[Bannon]

On 3/12/2017 at 6:47 PM, ThoughtAFool said:

Me too.  I was surprised by the "Do Not Burn" on the bag, so I googled it and found that cremation is the CDC recommendation for bodies of Ebola victims.

I know such things may not have been in place in 1984, but regardless, I would think that any facility doing biowarfare/biodefense research would have some plan in place for disposal of contaminated remains (I imagine more commonly research mice/rats/primates...) that is a little more secure than "bury them in a remote area where a team of people can work unobserved for hours to dig up the coffin".

Burning biohazards with an on-site incinerator was a well known practice in 1984.  I could be wrong, but the whole thing reeks of lazy writing, especially since the virus in the plot is similar to Ebola, which, as you note is destroyed via burning.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Bannon

[Bannon]

To follow on, if the non-burning of a body of a Lassa fever victim is, as I suspect, just lazy writing, that really irritates the hell out of me. Did we really need more footage of Elizabeth killing someone?Was the point to have us on the edge of our seat during the interminable digging sequence? It just bored the hell out of me, and I was hoping beyond hope that they weren't actually digging for the body, which struck me from the get-go as being every bit as stupid as the worst writing in the worst James Bond movies. Are we going to have a hollowed out volcano to end the series?

I thought last season was a distinct improvement in a show I have almost quit on a couple of occasions. I hope the writers aren't moving in the wrong direction.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Bannon

[qtpye]

27 minutes ago, Bannon said:

To follow on, if the non-burning of a body of a Lassa fever victim is, as I suspect, just lazy writing, that really irritates the hell out of me. Did we relly need more footage of Elizabeth killing someone?Was the point to have us on the edge of our seat during the interminable digging sequence? It just bored the hell out of me, and I was hoping beyond hope that they weren't actually digging for the body, which struck me from the get-go as being every bit as stupid as the worst writing in the worst James Bond movies. Are going to have a hollowed out volcano to end the series?

Hell, it reeks of an Austin Powers movie.  I remember when Dr. Evil threw one of his henchmen into a fire pit

Quote

Mustafa is sent tumbling into a pit of fire by Dr. Evil after his unfreezing process caused Mr. Bigglesworth to lose all his fur. He survives, and an unknown henchmen enters the room and kills him by shooting him twice (the first proving ineffective).

This reminded me of Hans being executed by Elizabeth for some reason...I guess because both scenarios are ludicrous.

[Bannon]

11 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Hell, it reeks of an Austin Powers movie.  I remember when Dr. Evil threw one of his henchmen into a fire pit

This reminded me of Hans being executed by Elizabeth for some reason...I guess because both scenarios are ludicrous.

I don't mean to be too harsh, because even the best show have had their moments of absurdity; I remember rolling my eyes at Walter White using the Aryan Brotherhood to execute an entire baseball team of potential witnesses in different prisons, on the same day. That was just an excessive portrayal of the reality of witnesses being murdered, however. This fundamental misrepresentation of how biohazards are handled, to simply give us some more absurdly easy faux cloak and dagger stuff, and to have Elizabeth up her body count,  really frustrates me. I have loved elements of this show, but so often I think the writers have underestimated the intelligence and sophistication of the audience, and in doing so have made this, to me, a show which has too often wasted its potential. Really unfortunate.

[Captain Asshat]

On 3/8/2017 at 6:36 PM, Kokapetl said:

Margo Martindale had 60 seconds of dialogue. That Emmy is hers! 

Thanks to "Bojack Horseman," every time I see her on screen, I have to say, "It's esteemed character actress, Margo Martindale!"

[qtpye]

23 minutes ago, Bannon said:

I don't mean to be too harsh, because even the best show have had their moments of absurdity; I remember rolling my eyes at Walter White using the Aryan Brotherhood to execute an entire baseball team of potential witnesses in different prisons, on the same day. That was just an excessive portrayal of the reality of witnesses being murdered, however. This fundamental misrepresentation of how biohazards are handled, to simply give us some more absurdly easy faux cloak and dagger stuff, and to have Elizabeth up her body count,  really frustrates me. I have loved elements of this show, but so often I think the writers have underestimated the intelligence and sophistication of the audience, and in doing so have made this, to me, a show which has too often wasted its potential. Really unfortunate.

I agree.  At least with the Breaking Bad prison execution scene, it was beautifully put together and was horrifying and fascinating to watch.  Seeing people digging a perfectly rectangular hole, with nothing protecting them but masks, for a bio hazard that should have been destroyed, was tedious.

I hope this is just a misstep for what will otherwise be a solid season.  This show had become quite the critical darling and I hope it gets better as the season progresses.

[Inquisitionist]

On 3/13/2017 at 11:51 AM, mostlylurking said:

Maybe it was just me but I really got annoyed with Elizabeth saying Stan wasn't feeding the kids enough vegetables. Umm, he's feeding your kids which is more than you're doing, so maybe dial it back with the demands?? It was mentioned more than once too which got me even more irritated.

Elizabeth has often been shown preparing nutritious meals.  I didn't get the feeling the kids were eating at Stan's due to lack of food at home.