S04.E13: Cruel and Unusual

[AmandaPanda]

Quote

Callie rejects a proposition from a guard in juvenile hall, making an enemy in the process. Meanwhile, Callie's father is angry at Stef and Lena; Brandon puts Mariana in a bad position; Jude gets another chance with Noah; and Mike makes big decisions.

[SimoneS]

I am glad that they have eased up on Jude seeing Noah. Jude can finally have a normal drama-filled teenage romance.

It will never happen, but Callie's best hope for a normal life is if her father gets custody of her and gets her out of that crazy household and environment.

[maraleia]

I'm really glad they had Robert call Callie out on her constant crusading. She really needs to cool it until she can get control of her own life and meddling in juvie was, hopefully, the last straw for her.

Also, I loved when Stef made the kids remove their bedroom doors. They don't deserve any privacy unless they are in the bathroom at the moment.

I'm glad they didn't have Mike tell Ana that it might be a problem for her to move in and instead went the adopting AJ route because he really needs a forever family too.

It looks to me like they are tightening up the extended family unit and that can only be a good thing.

I just wish the timeline wasn't so tight because it's hurt the storytelling.

[ShortyMac]

I have mixed feelings about this episode.

I do not blame Stef at all for removing the kids' bedroom doors. They have done nothing to earn privacy.

For the millionth time, Callie tries to help, and it backfires. Water is wet. I should've known that Callie's case was going to be sent to adult court because that was the only way she was going to get to go home because she could be bailed out. Duh.

I don't know how to feel about Robert finding out about Callie. I believe that she did want to be adopted by Stef and Lena, but Stef DID blackmail Robert into giving up his parental rights. 

I don't think she'll end up going to prison. There would be no show.

Seeing Jesus overwhelmed because of Mariana's crying broke my heart.

These kids need to listen to their freakin' parents! Mariana, you guys couldn't visit for a reason. Jeez. I did like her scene with Stef, though, and she does need to go back to therapy.

Jude and Noah. Whatever. Don't care.

Brandon's assumptions broke Mat and Mariana up. I get that he cares, but it wasn't his business.

I just can't with Mike and Ana. I don't buy their relationship at all. He wanted to kill her, remember? And Stef's right, Ana's a convicted felon and CPS would have to consider that with AJ's placement with Mike.

It was kind of sweet that Mike wants to adopt AJ.

Callie's birthday was in 03x06 in July and it's now November/December. Lord, this timeline. So, Callie's adoption, Stef's DCIS, Brandon's play, Jack's death, a school shooting, the drama with Justina and Nick, has all happened in ~4 months. 

Lena taking a leave of absence...she's going to have SO much on her shoulders, handling the majority of Jesus' care at home. I understand how hard it is. My grandfather has had strokes and when he spent time in rehab centers, it was so hard to visit him and have to leave, wishing he could be home. He has a live-in caregiver. He is a godsend and a true blessing to my family. 

Jesus has a long road ahead...and Emma's likely pregnancy on top of it all. So much drama.

And we still have to see where the moms' fake divorce goes and Stef and Detective Gray and that whole deal.

There is A LOT going on. It feels like too much.

[KaveDweller]

Anyone remember that Seinfeld episode where George decided to do the opposite of his instincts for literally every decision he made? And it ended up working out really great for him. Callie needs to do something like that. She means well, but she makes such awful choices.

I don't understand why there is even a case against her though. She was a passenger in a car involved in a hit and run. She left the scene, but she called 911 and then went to the police. The actual driver of the car in this hit and run says, "well it was her fault," so he gets off scott free and and she goes on trial? What happened to innocent until proven guilty? I get that she has a record and that will make her look bad, but literally the only thing they have against her is the other guy pointing his finger, when he clearly has motive to cover for himself. I know our justice system is flawed, but is it really that flawed?

These people are all magnets for drama. I don't think Jesus recovering at home is going to make things easier for anyone either.

[ShortyMac]

5 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

I don't understand why there is even a case against her though. She was a passenger in a car involved in a hit and run. She left the scene, but she called 911 and then went to the police. The actual driver of the car in this hit and run says, "well it was her fault," so he gets off scott free and and she goes on trial? What happened to innocent until proven guilty? I get that she has a record and that will make her look bad, but literally the only thing they have against her is the other guy pointing his finger, when he clearly has motive to cover for himself. I know our justice system is flawed, but is it really that flawed?

I'm wondering the same thing.

Edited February 15, 2017 by ShortyMac

[Lady Calypso]

22 minutes ago, ShortyMac said:

These kids need to listen to their freakin' parents! Mariana, you guys couldn't visit for a reason. Jeez. I did like her scene with Stef, though, and she does need to go back to therapy.

I think it was hard for Mariana because I don't think she's gotten to see her brother since Nick punched him, besides maybe him being unconscious. Not knowing Jesus' condition must have scared her and knowing that she needed to talk to her brother, her lying is totally understandable. Stef/Lena haven't talked to the kids about Jesus and his condition, which is fair since they don't know that much either, but I think Mariana, being Jesus' twin, needed more than "he can't have visitors right now." She just didn't understand, so it led to the whole situation. I am glad Stef told Mariana that she needed to go back to therapy and hopefully, Mariana will get the help that she needs.

Yeah, can Emma please not be pregnant? Pretty please? Does the show really think we need another piece of drama here? Because really show, we have enough. We got Callie being tried as an adult and I doubt the Kyle story is going away, we have Brandon's aftermath of cheating on the SATs, we have Jude seeing Noah and most likely continuing to smoke pot, we have Mariana dealing with the fallout from her taking the pills, and we have Jesus recovering from a TBI. We don't need pregnancy on top of that.

The Callie case is pretty stupid to begin with. First off, the driver would be charged more harshly than Callie. Record or not, he was driving, she was upset about Mariana which people can attest to, and she called 911 and went to the police after going to the hospital to visit Jesus. This is the easiest cut-and-dry case so I highly doubt she's going to be charged as guilty, even if this wasn't a TV show. Even if the judge made some good points about Callie looking for trouble, the entire situation makes little sense. 

I get Robert being pissed about being lied to, not being informed, and being shoved out of the decisions. That doesn't mean I agree with him bringing up Callie being adopted as a mistake. I don't mind him helping out, even if I do think Stef's defense attorney woman was more helpful. I think Robert could relieve some of the tension on Callie's end so Stef/Lena can focus on all the other things in their lives.

I applauded when Stef took the doors. About damn time some discipline happened in that house. 

It was sweet when Mike told AJ that he wanted to adopt him. I totally believe that because Mike loves that kid. I guess it never crossed his mind as a serious thing before. 

[balmz]

decent episode, liked that robert called stef and lena on their lousy parenting, they suck as parents and removing the doors isn't going to do a thing, also they should have let mariana see jesus as they are twins and twins share a special bond but they should have prepared and told mariana what to expect and to be ready, not be mad at her for wanting to see him, especially since it is actually stef and lena's fault the whole jesus injury and nick thing happened ( i wrote a detailed explanation how jesus getting hurt and the twins meeting nick and the fight with nick is actually moms fault if anyone wants to see). though jesus getting angry about the pizza was meant to be serious i enjoyed seeing jesus yell at moms. didn't really care about the jude or brandon plots tbh,  hope emma isn't pregnant, hope aj gets adopted

[taragel]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

It will never happen, but Callie's best hope for a normal life is if her father gets custody of her and gets her out of that crazy household and environment.

Honestly. I wonder if the show is really going to make an arc out of the fact that every one of their kids is completely out of control and makes terrible, terrible decisions? Somehow I doubt it, but they really should, because it's so incredibly obvious at this point. I get that the writers are in love with the idea of Stef and Lena as perfect parents, but they're so incredibly far from that now. 

And lordy, Emma being pregnant. Please no with all that. I did wonder though if Jesus's coma dream of Brandon and Emma hooking up was going to end up being prophetic. 

[omgsowicked]

This was an enjoyable episode to me mainly because Stef and Lena finally got angry enough with the kids to change their approach. Then on top of that, the judge brought up how Callie keeps screwing things up even though she has everything going for her, and I really hope she took that in. And I was very happy to hear Stef telling Mariana she needed to go back to therapy. Some sense was made, and I thank you very much.

Back to Callie... basically what she's learning is to never do the right thing, ever. LOL. She shouldn't have gotten so deep with Kyle's case but she did the right thing with the hit and run, so it's ridiculous that she's being held responsible for it while the driver isn't. This shouldn't even be a discussion... she called 911, surely they could get a record of that and hear the fear in her voice, hear that guy screaming in the background? Hopefully when it goes to adult court, a new judge will look at the case and throw it away. I was happy to see Robert again, and Callie and AJ were very sweet. I'm also super happy that Mike wants to adopt AJ. His reaction was so sweet, trying to play it cool. I'm sure that will mean drama for Mike and Ana, which I don't particularly care about. I'd rather see how Brandon feels, since he was feeling pushed out earlier on and especially now that he doesn't have much going on, story-wise. Mike just needs to be clued in about Julliard and then that's about it.

Brandon dun goofed again, lol. Those trust issues would have been a problem no matter what, though. Hopefully therapy and being single will be good for her. But I was right, Emma bought tampons for Mariana and the test for herself! This is too much, man. Like, I get that life happens the way it happens but my head is spinning trying to keep up with all these plots. Jesus is recovering so he won't be able to support her or the child, and his family is too busy with all their drama to help her out either. So what? Abortion? Lena's was a medically necessary one for a wanted pregnancy, so perhaps they want to do one with an unwanted pregnancy. Very upsetting to see him lash out... I'm worried Lena won't be able to manage it on her own. It sounds like her leave of absence doesn't include any pay so I wonder if they could have hired someone to be with him at home while they worked. Even if it dug into half of Lena's income, at least there would still be some money coming in. Then again, maybe it would have cost all of her pay so why not stay at home, I don't know.

I understood Stef and Lena's reasoning but a sweet poem doesn't change the fact that Noah's a bad influence. Even when he was caught by his mother, he continued to share his weed, so I can't see him stopping because Jude tells him to or else they can't see each other anymore. He'll pretend to take that seriously and then start bringing stuff again, and Jude will eventually cave.

[auntiemel]

I'm glad Callie's home. I had zero interest in watching Orange is the New Callie, and I was so afraid they were going to stretch that out over the whole Spring set of episodes.

[bybrandy]

Honestly, I really, really, really agreed with Steph when she told Marina it was time for her to start to listen.  But those kids are pretty old to have the truth about things like Jesus's condition hidden from them.   

Really this episode and every previous episode this season has had just too much crisis.  I know a show needs drama but I need at least one or two people not to be in crisis per episode otherwise you don't get enough focus in any one place.   

[Perfect Xero]

The legal system makes no sense on this show.

Also, high priced lawyers aren't as good as public defenders because they just piss people off in court?

[alexvillage]

Apparently the writers don't really care about reality, which is funny because the show's premise is interesting, bringing the foster system into light. It happened with the "lockdown", where the procedures were completely absurd - I will never stop complaining about sending people already safe and outside to a potential dangerous situation for no reason at all, and now with the Callie is guilty because the driver ran away thing. And I haven't even watched the episode yet.

I agree that Stef and Lena are terrible parents and they are raising annoying kids that do whatever they want, break the law in several ways and then play the "love is everything card". Also agree with the excessive drama. Too much in just a few months and not trivial things either. Again, writers' s fault. 

As for Callie, what I would love to see and am certain I won't, is for her to go to prison and stay there. 

[SimoneS]

I also want to add that these people have way too many children with over the top adult problems. With that, I am out again. I will go back to watching clips on YTube.

4 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

Also, high priced lawyers aren't as good as public defenders because they just piss people off in court?

Seriously, what that not the dumbest thing EVER?!! I just went WTF? Of course, when Callie's case got transferred to adult court, they were reassuring Jude that her father's high priced lawyers would get the case dropped. I bet that lawyer would have gotten the case dropped right there in juvy court right there and then.

Edited February 15, 2017 by SimoneS

[LekoBoy]

Steph is a bad lesbian. Who uses a chisel to pull a hinge pin?  Jesus can be forgiven for not knowing a hammer from a screwdriver, but not her. 

[SimoneS]

11 hours ago, omgsowicked said:

I understood Stef and Lena's reasoning but a sweet poem doesn't change the fact that Noah's a bad influence. Even when he was caught by his mother, he continued to share his weed, so I can't see him stopping because Jude tells him to or else they can't see each other anymore. He'll pretend to take that seriously and then start bringing stuff again, and Jude will eventually cave.

I don't see Noah as a bad influence. Jude is the one who asked for the weed in the first place. He also found a dealer at school on his own to buy it. Given his turbulent home life, it doesn't surprise me that Jude would want to use weed to chill out. He would have gone there even if Noah had never shown up.

IMO, teenagers smoking weed isn't the end of the world. However, if you are serious about getting them to stop, just telling Jude not to see Noah any isn't the way to accomplish it. Jude and Noah need to be involved in far more activities and get way more supervision that they get from their parents. Noah should come over and do his homework with Jude in the living room. What happened to the church teen group Noah was involved in? They were raising money for some charity. But Lena and Steph have way too many children with problems to do any of this. 

Edited February 15, 2017 by SimoneS

[Darian]

I realize bringing Jesus home is a device to ramp up drama, but I got disproportionately annoyed at it. Bad idea. Yeah, the unit didn't have private rooms...probably so the staff can keep a better eye on patients. It may have smelled icky, too. But, damn, I worked on a brain injury unit and every single thing we did was rehab. Every interaction, every activity, every element of every activity. Kid throws a plate? Staff would use the whole thing as rehab. No one would slowly pick it the dish while looking shocked and hurt. Patients saw other patients get better. Therapists were all over the place. Jesus would have gotten better faster. Er, if this were real. 

[maraleia]

I'm worried that the show is getting away from its premise of a loving lesbian couple raising kids that no one else wants in favor of stupid teen drama and unrealistic stuff like Callie with her crusades and Brandon hooking up with an older woman.

[tennisgurl]

I swear, I don't understand why the writers felt the need to add all this contrived drama for drama`s sake. Didn't they already have lots of drama and potential interesting stories just in the original premise of "large extended family centered around inter racial lesbian couple raising a million biological, foster, and adopted kids"? There's tons of natural potential in that premise, dealing with normal issues that would arise in that situation, and the issues that follow a couple raising five kids, all with their own baggage and issues, and the couple still trying to keep their careers and their marriage strong, plus with the issues surrounding adoption and the foster system. All this other crap with stalkers and murder investigations and cancer and sexual harassment allegations and whatever stupidity Callie is getting up to this week all just seems pointless and annoying.

You know, I love Stef and Lena, but I really think they might suck as parents. When one of your kids is spiraling out of control, it might be typical teenage stuff that lots of family deal with. When ALL of your kids are spiraling out of control (except for the kid with brain damage), then the problem might be the parents. At least Lena is actually disciplining the kids now. Hopefully this has been a wake up call for Stef and Lena.

Awwwww Mike is adopting AJ! This is a plot I can totally get behind, that was so adorable. Its a really good plot that harkens back to the original premise of the show (non traditional families) and gives a lot of good character development for Mike, and AJ is by far the most well adjusted kid on the show at this point. I'm sure things will get messed up with Anna/Mike, but still.

[alexvillage]

Quote

You know, I love Stef and Lena, but I really think they might suck as parents. When one of your kids is spiraling out of control, it might be typical teenage stuff that lots of family deal with. When ALL of your kids are spiraling out of control (except for the kid with brain damage), then the problem might be the parents.

Yeah. It's been since the first episode but it is getting worse. Add that to the timeline, too much drama in such a short time, it is a disaster.

The kids are rude and disrespectful. If the writers had kept the foster parenting theme, they could explore how foster children, and adopted children who have been through the system and had bad experiences, relate to having a family, learning the ways of a new family all the time, and then the process of adapting to a really loving family who really want them.

What I see is parents who are too permissive, teenagers (Callie and Jude) who are unraveling, and nothing is done about it. Callie is always talking back at Lena and Stef, blaming them for whatever. Exploring the "why" would be a sensible perspective.

But I think I expect too much and teen drama must bring in the viewers, so. 

[ShortyMac]

33 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I swear, I don't understand why the writers felt the need to add all this contrived drama for drama`s sake. Didn't they already have lots of drama and potential interesting stories just in the original premise of "large extended family centered around inter racial lesbian couple raising a million biological, foster, and adopted kids"? There's tons of natural potential in that premise, dealing with normal issues that would arise in that situation, and the issues that follow a couple raising five kids, all with their own baggage and issues, and the couple still trying to keep their careers and their marriage strong, plus with the issues surrounding adoption and the foster system. All this other crap with stalkers and murder investigations and cancer and sexual harassment allegations and whatever stupidity Callie is getting up to this week all just seems pointless and annoying.

You know, I love Stef and Lena, but I really think they might suck as parents. When one of your kids is spiraling out of control, it might be typical teenage stuff that lots of family deal with. When ALL of your kids are spiraling out of control (except for the kid with brain damage), then the problem might be the parents. At least Lena is actually disciplining the kids now. Hopefully this has been a wake up call for Stef and Lena.

Yes. Nothing to add.

[ShadowFacts]

Did I miss something, or weren't Ana and her baby already living in Mike's apartment?  Wasn't that the reason Mike got rid of Brandon's piano, because of the space issues?

[Perfect Xero]

The Mike wanting to adopt AJ thing would be more sweet if it didn't come off like Mike decided he wanted to adopt AJ so that Anna and the baby could move in with him.

Given the way this show works I expect that Mike attempting to adopt AJ will lead to the revelation that he is also the child of Robert Quinn.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Perfect Xero

[luckyroll3]

Callie's storyline is so idiotic, but she's so damn hardheaded, I'm hoping she ends up in prison.  I know that won't happen, but she really does need to learn to stop with all this shit.

The last thing this family (and the show) needs is a pregnancy arc.

More AJ please, preferably shirtless.

[KaveDweller]

21 hours ago, omgsowicked said:

Back to Callie... basically what she's learning is to never do the right thing, ever. LOL. She shouldn't have gotten so deep with Kyle's case but she did the right thing with the hit and run, so it's ridiculous that she's being held responsible for it while the driver isn't. This shouldn't even be a discussion... she called 911, surely they could get a record of that and hear the fear in her voice, hear that guy screaming in the background?

She also tried to do the right thing when she got help for that other inmate on drugs. And again by not turning the guard in.

They could also get Aaron to testify that he called Callie to tell her Mariana was found and she got all weird and was obviously saying things so someone in the car with her didn't know she was afraid of him. Maybe that would make her look bad because of the Kyle obsession, but it also supports her story.

9 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I don't see Noah as a bad influence. Jude is the one who asked for the weed in the first place. He also found a dealer at school on his own to buy it. Given his turbulent home life, it doesn't surprise me that Jude would want to use weed to chill out. He would have gone there even if Noah had never shown up.

IMO, teenagers smoking weed isn't the end of the world. However, if you are serious about getting them to stop, just telling Jude not to see Noah any isn't the way to accomplish it. Jude and Noah need to be involved in far more activities and get way more supervision that they get from their parents. Noah should come over and do his homework with Jude in the living room. What happened to the church teen group Noah was involved in? They were raising money for some charity. But Lena and Steph have way too many children with problems to do any of this. 

Also, originally wasn't Noah only taking medical marijuana for stress, and it was all edibles that his mom provided? When did he jump to smoking it on boats he doesn't have permission to be on?

I also miss Taylor, who introduced Jude to Noah. I wonder what she thinks of smoking weed.

[SimoneS]

36 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

Also, originally wasn't Noah only taking medical marijuana for stress, and it was all edibles that his mom provided? When did he jump to smoking it on boats he doesn't have permission to be on?

I also miss Taylor, who introduced Jude to Noah. I wonder what she thinks of smoking weed.

Yep, Noah's mother got him a prescription for edibles to use for stress which he was apparently abusing, saving extra to use when he felt like having fun. Now I think about Noah might have asked Jude if he wanted to try it and Jude said yes. Jude then bought his own weed from the school dealer to smoke. The trespassing on the boat came out of nowhere, but honestly I don't think that makes Noah a bad kid. It is a dumb thing that kids might do. 

As for Taylor, she knew that Noah was using. She hasn't been back so we don't know how she feels about Jude using.

Edited February 16, 2017 by SimoneS

[LisaM]

Callie's storyline is so stupid that I keep FF though it. Really liked Robert Quinn showing up at the house to remind Stef that he is still Callie's father. Moronic move to turn down his high priced attorney in favor of a well-meaning but overworked public defender. This whole story is ridiculous. 

Liked seeing Lena go through Jude's locker. Liked seeing Stef tell Mariana that she should go back into therapy. 

I am enjoying the TBI storyline for Jesus. Finally a great storyline for him that doesn't revolve around his girlfriends (at least now). 

I miss Judicorn. 

I actually liked Brandon as well.

Like the Mike/Ana/AJ storyline. I hope that everything works out for Mike; he deserves some happiness. 

[Chewy101]

So, first Mariana starts taking pills when she knows better. Then she begins to hallucinate, causing Callie to be concerned enough about where she is that she takes a ride with a stranger. Then she calls Jesus and freaks him out, causing him to get a severe brain injury in defending her.

THEN, Mariana decides to have unprotected sex in a shack, as a distraction from what a little shit she has become, and rats out to Sophie that Callie is back in juvie, when she had to know that would cause confrontations. 

The clincher is when Steph goes to punish them and she complains that it is unfair. Mariana is in rare form this season. I could give an absolute crap if Callie ever sees the light of day again because she is toxic, and NEVER should have marched into a police station without an attorney or guardian when she has a record. She knows the system better than that. She has been campaigning on behalf of a kid who faced this, in fact. But I am starting to hate all of the kids now. Steph is going to have an anxiety attack. Had these mothers given all of these kids counseling, perhaps some of this could have been warded off in a preventative manner, but that show would be boring. However, I am not entertained when all of the kids are imploding at once.

Looks like Callie is going to listen to Robert instead of her moms. Shocker! Will that kid EVER make the right choice. So now we will get another stupid custody hearing. They should just give her up. I get that juvie sucks for Callie, but she is in for a rude awakening if she loses and goes to prison as an adult, and not for months but for years. All of this was so preventable, ugh. I know Callie should not be accused of these specific crimes, but the judge was right that she seeks out trouble. She self sabotages. And why is she so allergic to asking for help from the right person. She didn't tell her moms, dad, lawyers, anyone about what the guard did.

Jesus' story line is an interesting one, and the actor is doing a bang up job with it. 

Matt was right to dump Callie. She has been so dishonest with him. Even if he loved her, she isn't showing she loves him. She just cannot deal right now.

I love how the moms have decided to lat Jude see Noah, as if he ever stopped.

I think it was irresponsible of the moms to bring Jesus home. I get how hard it would be to leave him in a facility, but they aren't trained in any way for this. And there is no way they can afford 24 hour home care. This is ridiculous.

 

P.S. The DVR cut off right when Jesus was asking about the "round things" on his pizza. Can someone tell me how it ended, and can he even eat yet?

On 2/15/2017 at 10:16 AM, SimoneS said:

IMO, teenagers smoking weed isn't the end of the world.

Actually, it's their breaking onto a boat and showing no remorse that concerns me. They are turning into little punks. Jude will be Callie soon, if he doesn't smarten up.

On 2/14/2017 at 9:17 PM, ShortyMac said:

Brandon's assumptions broke Mat and Mariana up. I get that he cares, but it wasn't his business.

Mariana had already lied about so many things, I am glad someone showed Matt the light. She is not in a place to handle a relationship right now. 

[Perfect Xero]

18 minutes ago, Chewy101 said:

So, first Mariana starts taking pills when she knows better. Then she begins to hallucinate, causing Callie to be concerned enough about where she is that she takes a ride with a stranger. Then she calls Jesus and freaks him out, causing him to get a severe brain injury in defending her.THEN, Mariana decides to have unprotected sex in a shack, as a distraction from what a little shit she has become, and rats out to Sophie that Callie is back in juvie, when she had to know that would cause confrontations. 

She's a mess, but she didn't have unprotected sex, Matt said they used protection, that's why he assumed that she'd slept with Nick when Brandon asked him about the pregnancy test.

I also don't think I'd characterize telling a girl that her sister is in trouble "ratting" anyone out. That's just being a decent human being.

[Chewy101]

Just now, Perfect Xero said:

I also don't think I'd characterize telling a girl that her sister is in trouble "ratting" anyone out. That's just being a decent human being.

I disagree. Mariana has not been interested in being decent in awhile. She has been too stressed out to care. There was no reason to freak out Sophia, the little sister. That wasn't nice at all. Having been in a complicated foster system most of her life, she knew better than to spread crap through the kids and not go to the adults. But these kids keep making that mistake. 

4 minutes ago, Perfect Xero said:

She's a mess, but she didn't have unprotected sex, Matt said they used protection, that's why he assumed that she'd slept with Nick when Brandon asked him about the pregnancy test.

Agreed. That was a twist I had not seen when I started writing. 

[possibilities]

Haven't seen anyone comment on AJ's letter to Callie. It was the first time I thought her reaction to him was anything but simple pattern-repetition.

[Chewy101]

38 minutes ago, possibilities said:

Haven't seen anyone comment on AJ's letter to Callie. It was the first time I thought her reaction to him was anything but simple pattern-repetition.

I was too distracted by the fact that Robert could not have smuggled that letter of AJ's in in the first place. How did he pull that off?

[LisaM]

I noticed that Robert knew that Mariana had called Sophia to tell her about Callie and juvie -- but didn't seem to know that Sophia herself had been in danger from the guy who followed her into the bathroom at the festival.

Jesus needs 24 hour/day care from trained professionals. He should have stayed in the rehab facility at least for a period of time to make some progress. Stef and Lena both have insurance and Jesus is a minor. Surely his care is covered while in that kind of facility -- in a way that it would not be at home? Not to mention that Jesus is a big guy - how is Lena going to lift him by herself? Makes no sense. Lena taking a leave of absence and giving up her needed salary in conjunction with Jesus not getting round the clock trained rehab care doesn't work for me.

I liked when Ana asked Mike if the moms would let her see Jesus. Also curious if Jesus's birth father will show up?

[ShadowFacts]

In addition to not understanding why Mike asked Ana to move in when I thought she was already there, I didn't understand the taking off the doors from the kids' rooms.  Most of the trouble they've gotten themselves into has occurred elsewhere.  They already spend tons of time out and about, they'll just stay away more, unless there was a grounding in there that I didn't catch.  It's their unsupervised freedom that's the problem, not what they're doing in their rooms.

[possibilities]

I think it was a wake up call for the kids, kind of a symbolic gesture.

Also, it gave us Brandon's line asking if he should take the door of the moms' room, too, which was priceless because the way he delivered it didn't sound defiant, just clueless, and was a perfect summation of his entire character.

 

The thing I like about Callie's mistakes, is that they are not out of defiance or carelessness or other bad qualities. She's actually trying really hard to do the right thing, and she's being thoughtful. She wants to help Kyle when he really needs it. She wants to find Mariana who is missing. She wants to spare her moms the stress of dealing with her car accident while Jesus is in the ICU. She wants to help the girl who's turning blue even though that girl was sort of mean to her. Her original trouble was from defending Jude from an abuser-- and even then she beat up his car, not him.

It's not like she isn't trying, and honestly I would rather have a kid in trouble for this kind of thing than for a lot of other kinds of shit. I mean, Brandon's SAT fraud was maybe sort of well-intentioned if you really stretch it and are adjusting for teenaged utter stupidity ("he wanted to help single mom with kid" vs "he cheated for money and knew what he was doing was illegal") but it was still more obviously wrong than any of Callie's recent mistakes. Mariana's recent actions are also I think objectively worse than Callie's (taking Jesus's pills, seeing Nick in secret).

I like Callie. I find her frustrating, and I think the show is getting almost unwatchably overblown and convoluted and crisis-driven. But I don't think Callie is actually the worst behaved of the family, or that her mess is entirely of her own making. She was absolutely not at fault in the accident, or with the corrupt guard. She cares about other people and has gone from violently (bashing the abusive foster father's car) and illegally (breaking and entering, stealing evidence from the original suspect she had in Kyle's case) and impulsively acting out (running away after the Brandon stuff early in the show), to actually thinking before she acts, and basically trying to do the right thing in really bad situations.

She still misses the mark sometimes (getting in the car with someone she didn't know well, going to the police without an adult, outing Aaron), but it's still progress.

What I would hope is that someone in-show would be able to make that case to the judge, as well as the really obvious stuff about how she was the passenger in the accident. I feel bad for her that she doesn't get more credit for her good qualities and how much better she's doing now than in the past.

RE Robert getting the letter to Callie, I hand wave that it's less unrealistic than most TV shows, but also maybe he asked permission and had it screened? The place doesn't seem to have very good security, anyway, since a guard is bringing drugs in and no one on staff has seemed to care or notice even after they already had a previous girl overdose.

Edited February 17, 2017 by possibilities

[Jax7917]

I think the character that annoys me most on the show is stef. Robert said "i'm Callie's father" and she responded "biological father". Um, no. He's her father father. It wasn't his fault that the ex wife didn't tell him he had a daughter. I just find stef to be such a know it all. Even in regard to mike. Just because you chose to leave your husband for someone else, doesn't make mike not as important as you in situations regarding his kid. She just grates.

Also, callie's story line is very far fetched. She would never be in this much trouble for leaving the scene of an accident, especially if she explained what really happened.

[LisaM]

Quote

The thing I like about Callie's mistakes, is that they are not out of defiance or carelessness or other bad qualities. She's actually trying really hard to do the right thing, and she's being thoughtful. She wants to help Kyle when he really needs it. She wants to find Mariana who is missing. She wants to spare her moms the stress of dealing with her car accident while Jesus is in the ICU. She wants to help the girl who's turning blue even though that girl was sort of mean to her. Her original trouble was from defending Jude from an abuser-- and even then she beat up his car, not him.

It's not like she isn't trying, and honestly I would rather have a kid in trouble for this kind of thing than for a lot of other kinds of shit. I mean, Brandon's SAT fraud was maybe sort of well-intentioned if you really stretch it and are adjusting for teenaged utter stupidity ("he wanted to help single mom with kid" vs "he cheated for money and knew what he was doing was illegal") but it was still more obviously wrong than any of Callie's recent mistakes. Mariana's recent actions are also I think objectively worse than Callie's (taking Jesus's pills, seeing Nick in secret).

I like Callie. I find her frustrating, and I think the show is getting almost unwatchably overblown and convoluted and crisis-driven. But I don't think Callie is actually the worst behaved of the family, or that her mess is entirely of her own making. She was absolutely not at fault in the accident, or with the corrupt guard. She cares about other people and has gone from violently (bashing the abusive foster father's car) and illegally (breaking and entering, stealing evidence from the original suspect she had in Kyle's case) and impulsively acting out (running away after the Brandon stuff early in the show), to actually thinking before she acts, and basically trying to do the right thing in really bad situations.

She still misses the mark sometimes (getting in the car with someone she didn't know well, going to the police without an adult, outing Aaron), but it's still progress.

What I would hope is that someone in-show would be able to make that case to the judge, as well as the really obvious stuff about how she was the passenger in the accident. I feel bad for her that she doesn't get more credit for her good qualities and how much better she's doing now than in the past.

I love this and agree with all of it. This is why I so dislike the current Callie storyline. Enough already.

[alexvillage]

I don't like Callie but that's mostly because I don't like the actress. I tend to focus on the writing of shows and I am really tired of the writers of this show. Like - it seems - everyone else here, it is just too much all the time. And because we had 4 seasons in less than 2 years, but the writing actually happened in the 4 years, it feels a little amateur to me that they seem to be forgetting that the show's timeline is not the same as their timeline to develop the stories, write them and shoot the episodes.

I finished season 4A on Netflix and the last episode has the following:

Callie gets in a car with a stranger who is likely a murderer - cliffhanger

Mariana is loaded with drugs, paranoid and her stalker is trying to talk to her, when he hits Jesus who falls unconscious - cliffhanger

Jude has disappeared with Noah to smoke pot - cliffhanger

Brandon cannot go to Julliard - not a cliffhanger but a "what now/consequences" situation

Stef will see the consequences of her decision to rat the other detective - cliffhanger.

Even poor Sophia, must be traumatized  - not a cliffhanger but a possible "to be seen"

 

1 episode. All this in one episode, one day in the life of one family and all the members of the family are in trouble, some of them very serious.

I am not watching the season but I wonder how long it will take - in the show's timeline - for them to resolve some of these problems and, certainly, start a new series of crisis.

[KaveDweller]

14 hours ago, possibilities said:

Haven't seen anyone comment on AJ's letter to Callie. It was the first time I thought her reaction to him was anything but simple pattern-repetition.

I thought her reaction to getting the letter in prison was cute. At first I thought she was just dating him as a placeholder but she seems really into him now. The I love you seemed genuine and like actual progress for her.

5 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

I think the character that annoys me most on the show is stef. Robert said "i'm Callie's father" and she responded "biological father". Um, no. He's her father father. It wasn't his fault that the ex wife didn't tell him he had a daughter. I just find stef to be such a know it all. Even in regard to mike. Just because you chose to leave your husband for someone else, doesn't make mike not as important as you in situations regarding his kid. She just grates.

Robert signed away his parental rights, so he legally doesn't have a right to call himself her father. Stef may have blackmailed him into doing it, but at this point he doesn't get a say in her upbringing.

I agree about Mike though. He and Stef just got divorced and Lena never adopted Brandon, so he still gets an equal say about his son.

[Chewy101]

On 2/15/2017 at 8:13 PM, KaveDweller said:

She also tried to do the right thing when she got help for that other inmate on drugs. And again by not turning the guard in.

She did the wrong thing not turning the guard in. Had she reported him, they would have mandated a drug test, and he would have likely failed and gotten the boot. Then Callie would have been safer. She needs to mind her own business and work on her own life for awhile.

 

56 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

 

15 hours ago, possibilities said:

Haven't seen anyone comment on AJ's letter to Callie. It was the first time I thought her reaction to him was anything but simple pattern-repetition.

I thought her reaction to getting the letter in prison was cute. At first I thought she was just dating him as a placeholder but she seems really into him now. 

 

I was too distracted by the fact that Robert succeeded in getting that letter in. That would not fly.

[possibilities]

I think Stef can be too controlling and bossy (she overrides Lena sometimes, too) and that Mike is a legitimate parent for Brandon and deserves some consultation in that regard. But I think that because Mike was an active alcoholic for most of Brandon's life, and was unpredictable, undependable, irresponsible and at times dangerously out of it, I think Stef's tendency to ignore or dismiss him is a habit she came by honestly. I still remember Brandon taking a drunk Mike's keys and driving him home, and it was made clear it wasn't the first time that had happened. WIth that track record, people get into a habit of acting on their own and not waiting to conssult you after a while. I do think he's gotten considerably more together over the course of the show, and he seems to be doing a decent job with AJ. But I'm surprised, and I think Stef has become more open to him as well.

I'm on the fence about whether Callie would have been in more trouble or less if she had reported the guard. She obviously didn't trust they'd believe her, and was afraid of more retaliation if she "ratted him out". The person questioning her was hostile and didn't seem to be grateful Callie had called for help, she seemed accusatory more than genuinely interested in getting information. I think Callie should tell her lawyer, and her parents, but I understood why she didn't say anything at being first questioned by someone yelling in her face and standing over her like she was the guilty party. After all, when she trusted the cop she reported the accident to, she wound up in trouble. I think she's just trying not to make waves. She's seen the system is corrupt.

Also, I thought she chose to go to trial instead of taking the deal not just because of Robert but mainly because of the guard. She said she could not go back to juvie, and that seemed to be because she was terrified of retaliation from the guard who framed her by throwing the mop bucket through the glass. She knew that she wasn't going to be protected in there. Robert may have had some influence, but I think she would have made the same decision even if Robert didn't exist, because of the way juvie was so unsafe for her. Adult prison might be worse, but it's like she took the gamble on being acquitted instead of surrendering to the sure bet horror of going back where she knew that guard was out to get her personally.

I also thought that the reason she was in so much trouble for leaving the accident site was because of the tie in to Kyle's case, and how she was investigating the framing of Kyle. It's clear that the case is not an honest mistake, that there was buried evidence and a deliberate effort to frame Kyle. The cop in the police station when she went in to make her statement wants to discredit both Callie and Stef to cover his own ass. There seems to be a link between the detective who put Kyle away and the guy who was driving the car, and they are protecting each other by ganging up on Callie. Besides the murder case and Kyle's innocense, the driver doesn't want to be blamed for the accident, so he's trying to get Callie in trouble so he's not legally at fault for that. He may be the murderer or he may just hate her because he truly believes Kyle is the killer. But either way, he and the police have the same motivation to frame and discredit Callie: old fashioned coverage of their own ass.

I still think it's a little much that the judge sent her to juvie instead of home, but we don't know if they are implying there's an even bigger problem of the judges being in on the cover ups, or if it's meant to serve the story about how the system views kids who come out of foster care, or if it's just for More Big Drama, yet.

[KaveDweller]

On 2/17/2017 at 7:22 PM, Chewy101 said:

She did the wrong thing not turning the guard in. Had she reported him, they would have mandated a drug test, and he would have likely failed and gotten the boot. Then Callie would have been safer. She needs to mind her own business and work on her own life for awhile.

Possibly, but I just meant she was probably thinking of it as the "right thing" because the alternative was ratting him out. 

[Chewy101]

7 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

On 2/17/2017 at 6:22 PM, Chewy101 said:

She did the wrong thing not turning the guard in. Had she reported him, they would have mandated a drug test, and he would have likely failed and gotten the boot. Then Callie would have been safer. She needs to mind her own business and work on her own life for awhile.

Possibly, but I just meant she was probably thinking of it as the "right thing" because the alternative was ratting him out. 

For a girl who makes a habit of being a whistle blower, she has consistently not done it on her own behalf, eh. 

[LisaM]

Quote

I also thought that the reason she was in so much trouble for leaving the accident site was because of the tie in to Kyle's case, and how she was investigating the framing of Kyle. It's clear that the case is not an honest mistake, that there was buried evidence and a deliberate effort to frame Kyle. The cop in the police station when she went in to make her statement wants to discredit both Callie and Stef to cover his own ass. There seems to be a link between the detective who put Kyle away and the guy who was driving the car, and they are protecting each other by ganging up on Callie. Besides the murder case and Kyle's innocense, the driver doesn't want to be blamed for the accident, so he's trying to get Callie in trouble so he's not legally at fault for that. He may be the murderer or he may just hate her because he truly believes Kyle is the killer. But either way, he and the police have the same motivation to frame and discredit Callie: old fashioned coverage of their own ass.

Agreed

[Perfect Xero]

On 2/17/2017 at 6:24 PM, KaveDweller said:

I thought her reaction to getting the letter in prison was cute. At first I thought she was just dating him as a placeholder but she seems really into him now. The I love you seemed genuine and like actual progress for her.

Robert signed away his parental rights, so he legally doesn't have a right to call himself her father. Stef may have blackmailed him into doing it, but at this point he doesn't get a say in her upbringing.

I agree about Mike though. He and Stef just got divorced and Lena never adopted Brandon, so he still gets an equal say about his son.

Considering the circumstances under which Robert signed away his parental rights, I think that Stef bringing that up as a distinction was rather asinine. Not just the blackmail and encouraging Callie to lie to him so they could try some ridiculous emancipation plan, but the fact that their entire "case" for Callie staying with them was about respecting what Callie wanted and not what the law said. Callie has since made it clear that she wants Robert involved in her life and that she views him as her father. Stef turning around and falling back on the law after all of that is hypocritical as hell.