S03.E10: Day 87/S03.E11: Reunion Special

[Drogo]

In the Season 3 finale, survivors short on food risk death in an attempt to triumph.

Then, the survivors gather to discuss their experience on the Season 3 Reunion.

[riverheightsnancy]

Running Commentary:

1) Knew it would be down to Carleigh and Fowler based on editing. 

2) Fowler deserves to win. His location sucked. 

3) Awww, Carleigh.  You are a great winner and role model despite getting pulled. Great spirit and attitude. I wish her all the best in life. Sweet girl. 

4) I knew it. Yeah, Fowler!  So happy for a fellow Mainer!!!  He and his wife seem so cute and in love. What I said from Week 1 was that they ALWAYS show the winner in episode #1. Fowler was THAT person.  

Said this on Dec. 9th, "The one issue that I have is the editing. If they only feature 3-4 people in the episode and one is going home, then they are massively telegraphing that to the viewer. I didn't get to see preview because I forgot it was on, but I assumed at least one of the 4 people is a tap and could possibly they have also shown the winner. Does anyone remember if Alan was specifically shown during ep 1 and the guy who won last year as well? I think they need to focus on showing a little more of more people every episode so it is not so obvious (at least to me). We complained about this a lot last season. I don't remember it being so bad during season one, however, they lost about 5 people really quick so they had more time to focus on less people. "

Dec. 10th, "The only thing I am saying is, that I wish they would just add a snippet of a few other people, in case they are making a conscious decision to feature the first few taps and the winner in episode #1. Because if I were into edgic, then I would be scrutinizing episode #1 for specific clues. Since one of the guys I like is in episode 1, that is not so bad, but once you sort of figure out their "formula" it can take some of the fun out of it I suppose. I remember season 1, and the excitement of truly not knowing what the editors were doing. Every week was a total nail bitter (pumas not included, natch). Now it seems there is a formula and it takes away a little from the show for me (IMHO). So, I hope that they have changed that up a little this year, but I do like my ginger Fowler! I think he will be my horse this year! His little baby is very cute". 

5) Sparrow totally gave Fowler shade when she first saw him. haha. Cute.

6) Fowler-put some of your carvings up on Ebay. I would buy something!

[MostlyContent]

What a great finale! 

Congratulations to Fowler and his adorable family.  :) 

I'm watching the reunion and wow, Dave looks like a human!  A rather handsome one, at that.  

[raven]

I was a little disappointed - not that Fowler won, I liked him, but he started off with more body mass than Carleigh.  She definitely toughed it out longer than I expected and had the determination to hang in there.   I was sorry to see her be pulled.

Well congrats to Fowler and his cute family!   And HOLY CRAP that is Dave???  He's a good looking guy, cleaned up with the weight back and a haircut.  I'm glad he is healthy anyway and he's pretty personable too.

Oh man, cut to Carleigh and she looks depressed.  She should feel good about what she accomplished.

I wonder if the producers thought the contestants would be successful hunting on Patagonia. 

[riverheightsnancy]

Hey, are there people missing at the reunion? I really love Greg's honesty in the reunion show. He is such an authentic person. I am glad that they showed Carleigh at the hospital. It shows that she was really in trouble. She just didn't look like she was in trouble because she is younger, she has less obvious signs on her face like Dave. 

[riverheightsnancy]

1 minute ago, raven said:

I was a little disappointed - not that Fowler won, I liked him, but he started off with more body mass than Carleigh.  She definitely toughed it out longer than I expected and had the determination to hang in there.   I was sorry to see her be pulled.

I think that Fowler lost a higher % of weight (I think it said @33%-60 pounds), but obviously was not in a critical condition yet or below BMI of 17.  Men also have more muscle so they will burn more calories doing nothing or resting. So, I think that makes it somewhat more equal to the women on the show in that respect.  Don't forget, he was the only one NOT to bring any rations. So, he was at a self-chosen disadvantage right out of the box. Maybe he gained weight before on purpose to buffer for that. If he had been thinner to start with, he might have gotten pulled before Carleigh. It looked to me like Dave has a high metabolism and just loses weight really fast. I wish I had that problem. lol

[raven]

5 minutes ago, riverheightsnancy said:

It looked to me like Dave has a high metabolism and just loses weight really fast. I wish I had that problem. lol

LOL I hear you!  I'm about 20 min behind in the reunion special and they just showed the Carleigh before/after.  It's weird because I wasn't super invested in her - I was pulling more for Megan when we got down to three - but I feel badly, man is she bummed out here, not that I can blame her.  I just want to tell her to cheer up, 86 days holy crap!  Girl, you were in the hospital - I hope she ends up feeling good about the experience.

I did laugh at Greg's clumsy montage.  I like Greg and am clumsy myself.

[Auntie Anxiety]

Glad Fowler won, although Carleigh and Meghan were deserving. Incredible job out there. 

I was waiting for Fowler to ask his wife if she brought him some food. 

[riverheightsnancy]

On the reunion, they are going to save the most interesting people for last,  Callie and Fowler. Now it makes sense for Fowler to go last, but that is totally unfair to Carleigh, who did NOT quit and came in 2nd, NOT 4th.  

[MostlyContent]

Wow, Fowler lost 73 pounds.  That's pretty unbelievable.  

I'm loving his segment.  

[ProfCrash]

Carleigh came in second but was kind of boring. She and Meghan did a great job but they were not all that interesting to watch. Carleigh always looked a bit down. She reminds me of Wednesday from the Adam Family just kind of dour looking, even when she smiles. 

It sucks that the show was decided by medical. I hope they start earlier, so there are more foraging options for stockpiling, or build in a food drop for everyone at day 60. Heck, go for a food drop ever 30 days. Some jerky or something to help the folks out a bit. Dave and Carleigh were pulled for medical reasons. Granted, Dave was an idiot and had food that he did not eat. But the idea that Carleigh lost because of medical kills me. I prefer a Fowler win but she worked hard to be there and just ran out of food. 

In another few days Fowler would have been pulled for the same reason. I guess the moral of the story is pack on an extra 25 poubds before you head out. 

Dave looked great and was fine at the Reunion. Dan was still a dick and far too attached to his be boring strategy.

Fowler won $500,000 and gave everyone spoons and chop sticcks for Christmas. Hehehehe

[Snarklepuss]

1 hour ago, raven said:

I was a little disappointed - not that Fowler won, I liked him, but he started off with more body mass than Carleigh.  She definitely toughed it out longer than I expected and had the determination to hang in there.   I was sorry to see her be pulled.

I feel the same way.  I certainly liked Fowler and he did deserve to win but so did Carleigh.  I really feel for her knowing she went almost as far without getting any prize.  Mr. Snarkle said he thought she should have been given a special cash prize under the circumstances and I agree.  I also wonder whether she suffered any lasting medical complications that are adding to her disappointment.  She is still moved to tears about her experience and it surprised me that she didn't get more congratulations over almost winning.  I certainly think she deserved it.  I wonder if she feels a little slighted.  I know I would.

Carleigh has an intense look just by virtue of her strong brows and prominent cheekbones, sort-of like a young Brooke Shields in "Blue Lagoon" or Candice Bergen.  She's a beautiful girl.

[riverheightsnancy]

Carleigh seems like an introvert, so her stuff is not going to be over-the-top in terms of her filming. But they really dissed her by not having her interviewed second to last. She deserved that and I think that she will take this "loss" hard.  As cool as Callie was, it was unfair to Carleigh not to have her moment second to last. It minimizes her achievement and that kind of pisses me off for her. 

[Snarklepuss]

4 minutes ago, riverheightsnancy said:

Carleigh seems like an introvert, so her stuff is not going to be over-the-top in terms of her filming. But they really dissed her by not having her interviewed second to last. She deserved that and I think that she will take this "loss" hard.  As cool as Callie was, it was unfair to Carleigh not to have her moment second to last. It minimizes her achievement and that kind of pisses me off for her. 

Totally agreed.  I identify with Carleigh.  I'm also an introvert that typically gets slighted or passed over when congratulations are given out no matter how fantastic my accomplishment.  Story of my life, so I too am kind of pissed off for her.  I hope she finds a way to rise above it.  She should write about her experience.  There's a lot going on inside of her that probably needs to be expressed.

[MostlyContent]

8 minutes ago, Snarklepuss said:

Mr. Snarkle said he thought she should have been given a special cash prize under the circumstances and I agree. *snip*   it surprised me that she didn't get more congratulations over almost winning.  I certainly think she deserved it.  I wonder if she feels a little slighted. 

Mr MC and I said the same thing!  We really wished there was a 2nd place prize in this case, mostly because she was (rightfully) pulled and didn't quit.  They really didn't spend much time on her at all, except for her ending and the hospital etc.  

5 minutes ago, riverheightsnancy said:

s cool as Callie was, it was unfair to Carleigh not to have her moment second to last. It minimizes her achievement and that kind of pisses me off for her.

Yep.  I agreed with you when you referenced this upthread.   She was just kind of.....overlooked for the bigger personality.  Sure, Callie was entertaining and outgoing, but she *quit* when she really didn't need to.   Carleigh, otoh, gave it every bit of herself and more, and was just sort of *there* on the reunion.  

Yep.  I think my feelings would have been a little bruised.  

[jwc]

The young guy who cut himself in the beginning only weighed 140 pounds maybe for the show.   I think it would behoove a person to pack on some pounds before they get on the helicopter.  Like, as many as you can.  Fowler lost 83 pounds by the end of it.  That is like a pound a day.  And he still looked good.  Walked out, I mean he was beat, but he didn't look that bad.  The showed a pic of him jumping in the water and he wasn't showing ribs.  Not compared to Dave (concentration camp) and Carleigh (straight to the hospital, kiwis for a week & 5 months to recover).  

I liked the clumsy guy.  He admitted he was making dumb decisions.  Dan, if he wasn't so lazy (I will not call his strategy smart IMO), might have caught more fish and kept more his mind more occupied with more activities.  But he was a douche so everyone else and I pretty much was glad to see him ball.  Caleigh left on her own terms.  I admire her for overcoming the spiders.  That is pretty hardcore.

Fowler's structure was solid looking.  Warm even.  And he was so crafty.  I wonder if bringing the saw helped.  He was able to cut bigger pieces than other people.  Plus that shovel/ax thing.

[Quilt Fairy]

Because the winner here is 'the last man standing', I've always felt it must be extra hard to be in second place. You haven't been beaten so much as taken yourself out of the game.  To lose because you got pulled by medical must make that even worse. You're out in the wilds of Patagonia, how accurate can that BMI measurement be? Is the scale even on a totally flat surface? I decided that I would put rocks in my socks or something so they wouldn't know how much weight I had lost.

[cooksdelight]

I don't know why, maybe their off-the-grid lifestyle, but all I could think when I saw Fowler's dogs is that I hope they're spayed or neutered. Weird, huh?

[Liberty]

After Carleigh was pulled, it was surprising how quickly Fowler's wife got to Fowler's camp in Patagonia from Maine, just as Fowler was recording his thoughts.

Wonder if the Med Team brought her with them?

Edited February 10, 2017 by Liberty

[Ina123]

I think Carleigh is a doppleganger for Ali McGraw in her "Love Story" days.

[Trace]

I am very disappointed that Carlie was forced to tap out. I am a person that voluntarily fasts for many days at a time. I am also an unemotional loner by nature.  I do all this without any monetary motivation. Hell I'd be a zazllionaire effortlessly otherwise! Point being I would never tap out because I'm lonely or starving.  I would die there - but those annoying medicals would inevitably show up!!!! Damn them /sarcasm

Edited February 10, 2017 by Trace
It's 3 am my time

[saylubee]

I call producer shenanigans on that ending.  I'm very interested to see what the contestants have to say in the next couple of weeks since that ending seemed incredibly forced to me.

The part that sticks out to me is that Jami, Fowler's wife, was at camp the very next day after Carleigh was pulled.  Last season, David puzted around camp for two more days as producers worked to bring his daughter to him.  VI is a heckuva lot closer and easier to get to then Patagonia.  That tells me that the producers knew or maybe even wanted Carleigh to be medically pulled.  I'd be very interested to know if Tyler was also in Patagonia waiting.

The longer lead time into winter did the show a disservice.  Instead of watching people practice survival skills and tackle the emotional challenge of being alone, it devolved into a race of who can lose weight slowest while maintaining BMI.  But hey, shelters!!!  With those medical metrics, I don't expect a woman to ever be able to win unless they are built more like Tracey.

[zamberlan]

Maybe they should start to combine weight loss shows with survival shows? I'm still trying to process last night. I was a reality show virgin and I've woken up feeling sullied. 

[Snarklepuss]

2 hours ago, Ina123 said:

I think Carleigh is a doppleganger for Ali McGraw in her "Love Story" days.

I see what you're saying but I think Katie Lee of Food Network's "The Kitchen" is even more of a doppelganger for a young Ali McGraw.

[walnutqueen]

Shite. 

That was an even bigger disappointment than I expected.  I can honestly say I am not at all happy for the Fowler win.  Also, I was ridiculously annoyed with his quip about yoga and his "Man Card".  Bitch.  Guess I really didn't like him at all, eh.   :-)

[Snarklepuss]

7 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Because the winner here is 'the last man standing', I've always felt it must be extra hard to be in second place. You haven't been beaten so much as taken yourself out of the game.  To lose because you got pulled by medical must make that even worse. You're out in the wilds of Patagonia, how accurate can that BMI measurement be? Is the scale even on a totally flat surface? I decided that I would put rocks in my socks or something so they wouldn't know how much weight I had lost.

ITA, plus her BMI was 16.8, so close to the 17 cut-off.  They didn't even mention Fowler's BMI at the last medical exam, which adds to my suspicion.  I also think he lost a higher percentage of his body weight by the end, but I guess they don't factor that in.

[ClareWalks]

I don't think it's unfair that Carleigh had less weight to lose than Fowler. In fact it looked as though none of the women and only a few of the men had possibly "fattened up" before going out there, which is probably the hands-down smartest thing you can do on this show. FATTEN UP, folks. Take a few months after knowing you've been cast, and gain a good 20 lb. I have no idea why so few people seem to do this. As soon as they said they pull you for BMI under 17 I knew Carleigh was a goner. She was probably 5'7"-5'8" and weighed maybe 140 before the show. If she'd weighed 160 she might have won. No way was Fowler's BMI under 17, even with a 70+ lb loss. Gotta come correct and fatten dat azz up!

[seasick]

What was Dave's BMI when they pulled him??   Prolly A LOT lower than Carleigh's.  

(even though I think the standard heathy BMI  number is different for men and women--women carry higher BMI)

Even so-- they let Dave go much further into the danger zone than Carleigh before they pulled him-- no doubt.

[ClareWalks]

6 minutes ago, seasick said:

What was Dave's BMI when they pulled him??   Prolly A LOT lower than Carleigh's.  

(even though I think the standard heathy BMI  number is different for men and women--women carry higher BMI)

Even so-- they let Dave go much further into the danger zone than Carleigh before they pulled him-- no doubt.

Dave was probably below 17 when he was pulled, too, although they didn't explicitly say that was why they were pulling him. They had other concerns like his low blood pressure. (It could be that at his second-to-last med check, he was over 17, so they let it go at that previous point.) It seemed like the ONLY reason they pulled Carleigh was her weight, which is definitely a bummer. Oddly enough, men and women have the same BMI scales, although I think men should skew higher naturally because muscle is denser.

Edited February 10, 2017 by ClareWalks
clarification

[saylubee]

I also wonder if Carleigh had any other health problems.  Dave had blood pressure issues and if his BMI wasn't under 17, it was all but a technicality.  With Carleigh, all they mentioned was the BMI.  I know they tried to justify the pull in the reunion episode with the ambulance ride, IV, and five month recovery.  However, I bet even Fowler was taken to the hospital for evaluation after he won.

Fowler weighed 163 lbs at the end and is 5'11".  He would have had a BMI around 22.  He weighed about 240 lbs coming in, so he probably had about 100 lbs on Carleigh.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Saytura

[qtpye]

9 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

I feel the same way.  I certainly liked Fowler and he did deserve to win but so did Carleigh.  I really feel for her knowing she went almost as far without getting any prize.  Mr. Snarkle said he thought she should have been given a special cash prize under the circumstances and I agree.  I also wonder whether she suffered any lasting medical complications that are adding to her disappointment.  She is still moved to tears about her experience and it surprised me that she didn't get more congratulations over almost winning.  I certainly think she deserved it.  I wonder if she feels a little slighted.  I know I would.

Carleigh has an intense look just by virtue of her strong brows and prominent cheekbones, sort-of like a young Brooke Shields in "Blue Lagoon" or Candice Bergen.  She's a beautiful girl.

 

9 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

Totally agreed.  I identify with Carleigh.  I'm also an introvert that typically gets slighted or passed over when congratulations are given out no matter how fantastic my accomplishment.  Story of my life, so I too am kind of pissed off for her.  I hope she finds a way to rise above it.  She should write about her experience.  There's a lot going on inside of her that probably needs to be expressed.

Carleigh has that great bone structure that I sometimes see in Native Alaskans or Eastern European people that naturally make them look a little more youthful and healthy.  She is a lovely girl.  I was angry for her as well.  Why the heck was she not given the runner up position in the reunion, instead of Callie?  Also, the reunions suck.  It is nothing but a clip show and we get very little time actually speaking to the contestants.  I hope Carleigh and her boyfriend do get the chance to buy their land one day.  She is a warrior, but like a lot of us soft spoken people, she got overlooked.

I did not realize Fowler and that trapper jerk had the same coloring.  It looks like Fowler is slim and healthy.  I think he packed on the pounds for the show and that was a smart decision.

I do love Fowler and his family is so sweet.  I hope the money makes all their off the grid dreams come true.

Edited to add: I am one of the ones that found Dave hard to watch on the show.  Imagine my surprise when I saw a handsome, not insane man in his forties at the reunion, who would inspire some crushes among my late thirties friends...and it was DAVE!

Edited February 10, 2017 by qtpye

[seasick]

14 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

Oddly enough, men and women have the same BMI scales, although I think men should skew higher naturally because muscle is denser.

I believe when they are looking at BMI for the purpose of healthy weight(usually for the opposite reason--to look at obesity)   that is a woman is permitted a higher BMI--our bodies just naturally have a fat layer as women.  Men have a lower BMI as they are more muscle and less fat and don't have the female 'fat layer" 

[Ocean Chick]

I'm happy with the Fowler win, though I would have been just as happy with Carleigh winning.  In my mind, they're both winners.  So it sucks that Carleigh didn't get any money.  :(  I remember Alan (Season 1 winner) saying something about stuffing Snickers into his mouth even as they were leaving the hotel to be dropped off at their sites, so he definitely packed on pounds to add a cushion for his ordeal.  I'm surprised no one else seems to use this strategy.  And I, for one, would gladly buy a spoon from Fowler - they looked lovely and useful.  Lucky family members who get one!  I haven't seen the reunion show yet, so I can't comment on it except to echo the rest of you that Carleigh should have had the 2nd to last OpEd slot.  That sucks that they gave it to Callie.

Carleigh is going to do well in life, even if she didn't win the money.  She's got everything else she needs - intelligence, good humor, great looks, health, and a loving family.  And mad skilz in the wilderness.

Fowler, too, will do well.  Glad he's got the family he's always wanted.  His reunion with his wife made me cry a little with them.

[cooksdelight]

From Season One, what I learned then was that the family member is brought in for any competitor left when it gets down to two or three. They may have to stay somewhere for a while, but it's production's call as to when to fly them in. So I don't think it was unusual that Fowler's wife was there the next day. David's daughter was there soon as well. 

[ClareWalks]

29 minutes ago, seasick said:

I believe when they are looking at BMI for the purpose of healthy weight(usually for the opposite reason--to look at obesity)   that is a woman is permitted a higher BMI--our bodies just naturally have a fat layer as women.  Men have a lower BMI as they are more muscle and less fat and don't have the female 'fat layer" 

Not really, because if you look at "healthy" men and women who are the same height, the man weighs more. Because muscle is denser than fat, and healthy men have more muscle. Women have more fat, but BMI is a weight to height measurement, not a body fat measurement. I am the same height as Fowler, for example, but when I weigh in the 160s I look great. Fowler looks sickly. He'd have to weigh in the 180s to look as healthy as I do.

Edited February 10, 2017 by ClareWalks

[riverheightsnancy]

50 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

Dave was probably below 17 when he was pulled, too, although they didn't explicitly say that was why they were pulling him. They had other concerns like his low blood pressure. (It could be that at his second-to-last med check, he was over 17, so they let it go at that previous point.) It seemed like the ONLY reason they pulled Carleigh was her weight, which is definitely a bummer. Oddly enough, men and women have the same BMI scales, although I think men should skew higher naturally because muscle is denser.

BMI is a calculation based on height and weight and it used to be different for men and women until the NIH and the WHO changed it in 1998 ( I think). So there is an allowance for being taller as that (technically) will weigh more. Still not as accurate as a body fat analyzer though, which would be a better, more fair choice.  For athletes, something below 18.5 is still ok, because they have adequate nutrition. I have heard of athletes having a 12, BUT they are eating a ton and monitored by professional athletic coaches. In addition, I think the healthy BMI is 19-25. So 17 is really giving them a wide berth. 

[ClareWalks]

It would be better if they could monitor body fat percentage out there, but any bioelectrical impedance reading would be very inaccurate as they are likely dehydrated. Those readings would indicate that they are "fatter" than they really are. Going by BMI isn't a perfect system, that's for sure. Especially for someone who seems otherwise healthy. The Alone legal team probably made them start having a lower limit on weight. Great in the case of Dave, but I really think Carleigh would have been okay for another week or so. (She needed to fatten up beforehand, though! FATTEN UP!)

[ProfCrash]

They do a weekly health check and it sounds like those health checks became more frequent as the contestants were out there longer. They knew what each of the contestants weight/BMI was and could see the trend. I suspect that they knew that it was highly likely that Carleigh was going to be pulled when she was because she was dangerously close to the 17 BMI cut off. It is not hard to imagine that they brought in Jamie (Fowler's wife, right?)  because they knew that Carleigh was going to be pulled in the next few days.

I am not a fan of someone losing because they were pulled. If they are going to start people in the fall, then they need to provide them something to help them through the winter. A weekly food drop, not enough to give them a ton of energy but enough to maintain their crappy weight so that the winner is decided based on will and not BMI. Once foraging becomes far more challenging, they know when the fish are no longer a regular option and when the greens are gone, the contestants are given enough to equate to 500 calories a day. Think beans and rice on Survivor. Not enough to energize them and let them put on weight but enough to slow down the insane weight lose and enough to maybe be able to forage more.

Or, better yet, start them in the Spring. Give them time to forage and store food when it is plentiful. Let's see who knows the most about food preservation and foraging to make it longer in the game. I get that this is the more expensive option but I suspect that there will be a fair number of taps outs by day 60-70 for all the normal reasons. Injuries at camp, fear of animals, loneliness, missing family and the like. But that gives the few contestants who are out there to win it more options to survive longer. And, I suspect, there would be more interesting footage as there would be a lot more to do in the first months.

Carleigh is a nice enough person. She received the same amount of air time as most of the contestants. I don't have a problem with when they interviewed her. It was far more time then the second place person receives on Survivor. Alone is a TV show and is going to spot light the people who the audience was most interested in. Callie was far more entertaining to watch. Yes, she quit and Carleigh out lasted her. But we saw more Callie footage because she was, well, entertaining.

Carleigh is probably an introvert. She is attractive and nice. But she is quiet and not someone who sells a story. She has massive amounts of will power and strength. That came across in spades. I wish her the best but I don't feel like she was slighted. Meghan was the same way. She was very competent and showed a lot of strength and will. I suspect we could learn a lot from her but that her footage was probably far more academic and less story telling. I wish they had showed us the water barrel she made. I wondered why more people didn't make burn out barrels to collect rain water and the like.

Dave and Dan are the two folks who probably the most slighted based on their storylines and editing. Granted, it is their own damn fault. Dan had the boring strategy, laughed about the others who were keeping busy, and then quit because he could not stand the boredom. I suspect Dave played up his more eccentric side in order to be cast and hoping to get more air time. I think the Dave we saw on the reunion show is closer to the real Dave then what we saw on the show. I think his performance on the Reunion show helped him, unlike Jose whose performance turned people off.

I was glad to see that the first dude who left was in good spirits and able to laugh at himself and what people had to say.

[seasick]

11 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

Not really, because if you look at "healthy" men and women who are the same height, the man weighs more. Because muscle is denser than fat, and healthy men have more muscle. Women have more fat, but BMI is a weight to height measurement, not a body fat measurement. I am the same height as Fowler, for example, but when I weigh in the 160s I look great. Fowler looks sickly. He'd have to weigh in the 180s to look as healthy as I do.

I'm not sure what I'm thinking of--- I have seen some measurement done that tells what percentage of the body weight is composed of fat.   I thought that was the BMI.  Perhaps not.

But I still think they allowed Dave to go much farther into the risk zone than they did Carleigh.  Even though you can't truly compare one person's 'normal' or health parameters to another-- it's tough when there's half a million at stake.  If it was Dave vs Carleigh at the very end I would say she was in much better condition than he was when she was pulled.  If Carleigh had a preexsisting health condition it's likely she would not have been chosen to go.

[ClareWalks]

2 minutes ago, seasick said:

But I still think they allowed Dave to go much farther into the risk zone than they did Carleigh.

Oh definitely. I wish they'd tell us how often they do the health checks. If it had been a couple weeks, I see how Dave could have had lots of "time" to deteriorate that far in between checks.

4 minutes ago, seasick said:

I'm not sure what I'm thinking of--- I have seen some measurement done that tells what percentage of the body weight is composed of fat.   I thought that was the BMI.  Perhaps not.

You were thinking of body fat percentage, and you're right that women have a higher one than men (usually with equivalent athleticism, men are about 1/3 the fat of women). BMI is basically just a weight/height ratio. Not much information there!

[ClareWalks]

14 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

Dave and Dan are the two folks who probably the most slighted based on their storylines and editing.

I heard that Zach guy (who cut himself on day 8/9) was pretty pissed about his edit. Whatever, brah, it's television ;) Agree with you that Dave and Dan had more time out there to come across kind of "meh." We didn't see either of their skills.

You mentioned they have weekly health checks, did they say explicitly that they check them every week? Or is it just sporadic? I would think they would either make it sporadic or stagger them a bit, so they wouldn't be immediately tipped off when a boat went by on a non-check day. They didn't discuss that nearly enough IMO, because it is obvious that they can hear/see boats go by.

[ProfCrash]

I thought that Dave and Fowler called them weekly. Or maybe it was David in season 2. But I got the weekly in my head from somewhere. I could be that I made it up but I am thinking I remember a contestant saying it.

Fowler made it sound like they were coming more frequently for medical checks. The fact that both Carleigh and Fowler heard the boats and were worried about medical checks gave me the distinct impression that they knew the checks were coming more frequently and that they were worried about them. So while the crew doesn't say much or give them any info, the contestants were easily able to read into the up tick in visits and probably the longer huddles by the staff.

Pure speculation on my part. I suspect that the checks are staggered at the beginning of the season because there are 10 contestants and probably one or two medical teams on call. Given that they could hear the boats, a staggered check system would keep the medical teams more fresh and would mask when people were quitting because the contestants would think of the health checks and not quitting. As the contestants dwindle and their foraging options decline, I suspect that the health checks increase.

[cooksdelight]

11 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

Fowler made it sound like they were coming more frequently for medical checks.

He said that when the boat was bringing his wife, he thought "Oh no, another medical check? I'm in trouble, probably"...

I think when they heard the boats and were worried, it was because they were so thin and hungry. And they do check more frequently as the game goes on.

[piequinn35]

I felt bad for Carleigh :( she was worried that she might get pulled and it happened :( 

And looked how thin Fowler was, wow just wow. I said to my husband to join Alone so he can lose a lot of fat. :))

The show always have the winner on the first episode huh remember how they inserted Fowler in the last 10 minutes of ep01.

[holly4755]

I don't think Carleigh lost that much weight, it was just the unbending rules that ousted her. I remember being 5'6" and weighing 101 pounds, I had gained weight to 130, so I stopped eating bread. everything else normal and lots of snacks, but not bread and I lost weight pretty fast, but it was a period of time walking a lot, so the weight dropped off fast, I was not unhealthy, was not faint, so I don't think that weight is dangerous, but not great, I was strong but the fact that she was starving was bad.  So the fact that there was so little food got them again.  

Also, if they were weak, that would make them a more tempting snack for  the Puma that don't hibernate but have the same food problems in the winter. 

as to placement in the reunion, I don't think it was a big deal, everyone seemed to get along, and the editing was done afterwards according to what they thought would hold the audiences interest.   The editors were in love with Callie this year, she did the most interesting things, she had the filming chops to get good shots and not just talk into a camera. I can see them thrilled at that. 

[saylubee]

If Dave was 5'10" or shorter, he would not have broken the 17 BMI standard.  Fact is 120 lbs looks worse on a man's body then even 100 lbs does on a woman.  We also never saw Carleigh's bare torso to determine how bad she really looked.

[ClareWalks]

I did some math. With a 16.8 BMI at 101 lb, Carleigh is 5'5". They said she lost 30% of her body weight, so she weighed 145 lb when she arrived, which would be about a 24 BMI. FATTEN UP, gurrrrl. I do think they could have left her out there longer. I was a skinny teen but totally healthy. I just calculated and my BMI back then was 17.6. I don't think a BMI under 17 leads to organ failure that quickly all by itself. It seems like an arbitrary restriction and I feel bad for her getting pulled.

[zamberlan]

Some random thoughts on the women in no particular order. 

(I thought it was sooo funny when adoption guy said "what you people don't realize is I had to go three hours without a meal.")

Carleigh will be just fine. I bet she wouldn't have wanted to have done a solo interview and might have even asked the producers to give her a bye on that. I think I saw chickens at her place. She would make an amazing farmer with her many talents, the calm energy that animals need and no need for the superficial trappings of modern life. You dodged the money bullet Carleigh, hold your head up very high, you were absolutely amazing.

Callie should find someone else to run her apothecary and go into television. She is a total natural in front of the camera and she would make a brilliant spokesperson for some environmental organization. Either that or CNN or the like should snatch her up and have her do funny short documentary style segments on nature the way they have that food guy and that doctor guy.  (May I just add that I am proud that I called her song lyrics, about tikki hut a and bite on the butt some weeks ago).

Meghan, what a gift that experience will be to your children and particularly to your daughter. How many mothers could meet a challenge like that head on and come through so well? In the awesome role model mother competition you win hands down.

Now, I don't do twitter or any of those things but if I had a chance to ask them questions I would ask...

1. How did they manage hygiene? Was it diva cups and deep toilet pits?

2. What would they change about what they took, or didn't take?

3. How much real fear did they experience, if any, and over what? 

[Scaeva]

2 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

I am not a fan of someone losing because they were pulled. If they are going to start people in the fall, then they need to provide them something to help them through the winter. A weekly food drop, not enough to give them a ton of energy but enough to maintain their crappy weight so that the winner is decided based on will and not BMI. Once foraging becomes far more challenging, they know when the fish are no longer a regular option and when the greens are gone, the contestants are given enough to equate to 500 calories a day. Think beans and rice on Survivor. Not enough to energize them and let them put on weight but enough to slow down the insane weight lose and enough to maybe be able to forage more.

I hope the producers never go that route personally, because I think it would ruin the show. While it sucks to see contestants pulled for medical reasons, providing contestants with food drops would transform the series into one about camping rather than survival.  The race to the finish line would then just be about who could tolerate boredom and solitude longer. 

Of course no one's health should be put at serious risk either, so regular medical check-ups and the prospect of being pulled by a doctor are the only other alternative. I think medical disqualifications are something that are going to be part and parcel to the series so long as it actually requires its contestants to participate in wilderness survival. 

Edited February 10, 2017 by Scaeva

[cooksdelight]

1 hour ago, zamberlan said:

1. How did they manage hygiene? Was it diva cups and deep toilet pits?

I thought of that as well, but glad they didn't show it on TV. Periods for women are a bummer if you're out in the middle of nowhere, not to mention in a place where you have supplies.

I hope they don't change a thing about this show, including food. Everyone had the same opportunities. Carleigh could have fished more, but she didn't. Dave could have eaten his stash, but he didn't.