S02.E03: Divine Elimination

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Quentin and his friends prepare to face the Beast again, while Julia conspires with the Beast and their new ally to lure and trap Reynard.

Promo:

 

Sneak peek:

[Hanahope]

Oh, I think this is going to be the book 1 ending for Alice.

[grandemocha]

Poor Alice :( and Quentin. They were so sweet and then how it all ended... Hell, I even felt bad for Marina in this episode. No one deserves to die that way. I can't help but feel that Julia majorly fucked up and is still screwing shit up. 

Like Julia getting in the damn way caused Alice to miss her shot. Damn Julia, she needs to get her shit together (I know she was brutalized and deserves justice..but her single-minded hunt for revenge is becoming a problem.)

Edited February 9, 2017 by grandemocha
Added detail.

[Poltargyst]

OMG OMG OMG!!!!!   I don't think I've ever been as much on the edge of my seat for a tv show as I was watching this episode.  I don't think I've ever been as worried about a character as I was worried about Marina with Reynard.  And screw you writers/director/whoever for making me wait so long to see what happened to Marina after Penny took Julia and Martin.

What happened to Alice at the end?  She was awesome.

What a roller coaster ride.  Definitely kept my interest.

Julia really should have trusted Q and his friends.  If they could work together to take down Martin, then maybe they could work together to take down Reynard as well instead of stepping all over each other's missions.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Poltargyst
thought of something else to say

[GaT]

I spend most of my time watching this show feeling confused.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Awwww, Alice! I like that they found a way to bring her book fate happen. After the S1 finale, I figured they were just going to veer away from the book plots. As much as I like Alice, I like that the show isn't afraid to take her out like that.

Oh, Julia, fucking things up again. Honestly, I felt bad for her. She was so close to getting Reynard. But Quentin warned her that they were going after the Beast, so she should have known to put a rush on going after Reynard.

Loved Penny reluctantly but persistently figured out a way to deal with the curse that the Beast put on Whitespire. Despite his animosity towards Quentin, he knew he had to save him. When Margo and Penny used their keiko demons (ahem, WASTED their keiko demons) in Whitespire, I was yelling, "NOOOOOOOOO!"

Part of me is glad that the Beast is finally gone. He has done so many terrible things (as Julia reminded us last week, he killed multiple Brakebills students THIRTY NINE TIMES). I think he was content to ally with Julia temporarily because he had nothing better to do and because he thought he could eventually convince her to team up with him. But if she hadn't changed her mind by the time she killed Reynard, I'm sure he wouldn't have hesitated to kill her.

I was on the fence about Marina but I'm sorry that she's gone, especially because I'm sure she died a very painful death. At least Penny taking Julia and the Beast forced Reynard to kill Marina more quickly than he had intended. I give her major points for being so brave even when he had her tied up and he was threatening her.

One thing I appreciated about this Beast/Julia/Reynard plot is that it gave us some grey area. Both Reynard and the Beast need to be stopped and both teams were on a clock. Who is more important to kill? Julia framed her need to kill Reynard as altruistic because he was going after other hedge witches, but realistically she just wanted revenge. Quentin et al going after the Beast was rooted in trying to save magic in all worlds with the pleasant side effect that someone who had ruthlessly attacked them would die in the process. That's why I don't understand Bigby and Julia not wanting to get onboard. Killing the Beast wasn't about a vendetta - if magic disappeared, they would ALL lose their magic.

Heh, loved Ember shitting in the wellspring. I mean, that's definitely not going to be good for Fillory or magic in general, but it was still hilarious. Bonus: it thwarted the Beast's plans!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Inside the episode:

[iMonrey]

While I think this season is an overall improvement over last season so far, I'm still having a problem with the fact that the tone of the show is all over the map. There's a disturbing clash of tone, in fact, as the show cuts back and forth between scenes that are largely played for laughs and scenes that are so violent and gruesome they seem to belong to another show altogether.

The first part of this episode that dealt with the curse, and with Quentin, Alice, Margo and Eliot all trying to kill each other, for example, was largely humorous more than anything else. It was therefore quite jarring to have these scenes intercut with those of Marina's cat being turned inside out and Reynard biting her fingers off. It was like switching the channel from Buffy the Vampire Slayer to Saw II. These two stories just didn't feel like they belonged on the same show, let alone in the same episode. And it's hard to appreciate the humorous elements when gruesome torture is taking place elsewhere. 

I really kind of wish the show would simply dispense with Julia and her story. I know it's there in the books but it's what's taking me out of the rest of the show and preventing me from fully enjoying the other characters, whether they are at Brakebills or in Fillory.

I also don't understand why Margot, Penny, Alice and Quentin returned to Fillory to fight The Beast when they knew he was in New York with Julia. Why not just go to New York? Did they think it would be easier to fight him in Fillory? I don't get it.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I think one of the reasons they took him to Fillory was that Bigby warned Alice that the spell would take out not only the Beast but anyone within 20 feet (yards?). In order to prevent collateral damage, they needed to get him away from innocent bystanders. And that's assuming they would be successful. If they failed, I think they didn't want him throwing spells at humans. 

Benedict the map guy! I loved him as Alistair on Huge so I hope he will be around some more this season.

Edited February 9, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[HunterHunted]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Oh, Julia, fucking things up again. Honestly, I felt bad for her. She was so close to getting Reynard. But Quentin warned her that they were going after the Beast, so she should have known to put a rush on going after Reynard.

Part of me is glad that the Beast is finally gone. He has done so many terrible things (as Julia reminded us last week, he killed multiple Brakebills students THIRTY NINE TIMES). I think he was content to ally with Julia temporarily because he had nothing better to do and because he thought he could eventually convince her to team up with him. But if she hadn't changed her mind by the time she killed Reynard, I'm sure he wouldn't have hesitated to kill her.

One thing I appreciated about this Beast/Julia/Reynard plot is that it gave us some grey area. Both Reynard and the Beast need to be stopped and both teams were on a clock. Who is more important to kill? Julia framed her need to kill Reynard as altruistic because he was going after other hedge witches, but realistically she just wanted revenge. Quentin et al going after the Beast was rooted in trying to save magic in all worlds with the pleasant side effect that someone who had ruthlessly attacked them would die in the process. That's why I don't understand Bigby and Julia not wanting to get onboard. Killing the Beast wasn't about a vendetta - if magic disappeared, they would ALL lose their magic.

Ugh, Julia. The Beast is killing ALL magic, but she short-sightedly fixated on Reynard. I understand her need for vengeance, but her selfishness is hard to justify. I'm of the belief that the Beast was helping Julia out mostly so he could figure out how to steal Reynard's power.

[Alpharius]

I kind of hate this show, why are in all universes with magic all the people who have said magic so stupid?

You're warned the big evil wizard put a curse on the castle, and that's not the first thing you share when you come back to Fillory?  You don't suspect anything in the throne room since the curse specifically is meant to target new Kings and Queens of Fillory? Quentin, I want you and your team to lose and for Martin to kill you all, and to end magic because all magicians are dumb assholes.

Also, Julia, way to portray your entire gender as idiotic and emotional.  You deserved what you got and deserve more the longer you act like an idiot.

[diebartdie]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I also don't understand why Margot, Penny, Alice and Quentin returned to Fillory to fight The Beast when they knew he was in New York with Julia. Why not just go to New York? Did they think it would be easier to fight him in Fillory? I don't get it.

Well for one thing they had to go back to Fillory because Elliot is there (and can never leave which is sort of a curse in itself when you think about it). I enjoyed this episode a lot, it was very similar to how things played out in the book so that was pretty satisfying. The thing that was NOT satisfying was......The Beast had frozen Reynard, Julia had the knife and yet, they stand there gazing at Reynard and not killing him? WTEVERLOVINGF??????? That was just so much bullshit right there. NOW stupid Reynard gets to be the "big bad" and I REALLY hate that development. Julia's story is very important in the books (until it's not important....the third book was weird) so I assume the showrunners want it to be just as important in the show but at this point, Im over poe faced Julia. She needs a shrink.

[Philbert]

Well that was a bloodbath. Poor, poor Alice and Quentin. I'm not sure what's going to happen with them at this point (I really hate the old bringing the lost love back to life trope but....) and I'm really torn on it. I was hoping we'd get a little more of the beast but he was going to kill everybody eventually. The one character I'm really surprised that I am sorry to see go is Marina. She totally kicked ass in this episode. So, you're kidnapped by an insane God who is about to torture you and then eat your heart and your response is "Bored, now." That's so totally Evil Willow Rosenberg (yeah, I'm a Buffy geek, sue me). 

Really good episode. I enjoyed last season just fine but this season is really chugging along quite nicely.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1 hour ago, diebartdie said:

The Beast had frozen Reynard, Julia had the knife and yet, they stand there gazing at Reynard and not killing him? WTEVERLOVINGF??????? That was just so much bullshit right there.

I KNOW!!!! When Julia was yelling at Quentin and everyone in Fillory that she almost had Reynard, I thought well, you could have killed him if you hadn't wasted precious moments just staring at him!

ETA: ha, I just got the title of this episode. Ember, you scatological troublemaker!

Edited February 9, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[grandemocha]

53 minutes ago, Philbert said:

Well that was a bloodbath. Poor, poor Alice and Quentin. I'm not sure what's going to happen with them at this point (I really hate the old bringing the lost love back to life trope but....) and I'm really torn on it. I was hoping we'd get a little more of the beast but he was going to kill everybody eventually. The one character I'm really surprised that I am sorry to see go is Marina. She totally kicked ass in this episode. So, you're kidnapped by an insane God who is about to torture you and then eat your heart and your response is "Bored, now." That's so totally Evil Willow Rosenberg (yeah, I'm a Buffy geek, sue me). 

Really good episode. I enjoyed last season just fine but this season is really chugging along quite nicely.

Yeah, Marina was the kind of "evil" character I thoroughly enjoyed. I would've hardcore begged for my life but she was pretty tough in front of Reynard. I'm not even going to pretend otherwise, I VERY much hope the show finds some way to have Alice pop up now and then throughout the season because she is my favorite character and I really like what the actress has done on the show. I felt so bad for her and Quentin. I thought for a second that he was going to try to bind her like he did with her brother but then I realized he didn't have that box.

[diebartdie]

Oh and why the hell did Ember just all a sudden decide to go take a poop in the well of all magic?

[Poltargyst]

I thought it was specifically to mess with Martin.

[Hanahope]

So I liked how they finally did the book 1 ending (for the most part), but now I'm wondering if Alice is really dead, or is her spirit still niflin?

Agree with others that Julia should have known she had a short time frame to kill Renaurd with the Beast, she should have moved a bit faster.  Frankly, I'm surprised she didn't just walk right up and stab him the second they got into the apartment and he was frozen.  Seriously Julia, snooze you loose.

Obviously Renaurd is going to be a formidable villian now, a god, and he's got the knife.  Was a real shame that Marina died, her character was really coming around.  Will we now see Kady/Asmo again?

How did Penny get all the drugs so fast to kill and bring back the others (and why was Q last to come back, he was the first to die, should have been the first to come back)?  Can he get back to Brakebills and get the apparently temp cure again?  Are the thrones still cursed?

Ember was a hoot, that's for sure.  

[Philbert]

13 hours ago, Poltargyst said:

I thought it was specifically to mess with Martin.

 

And it worked.

[Watcher9]

I am not happy with the amount of gratuitous gore and cruelty that does not serve to advance the plot. In particular, the unnecessary depiction of the torture murder of Marina's cat. Was that necessary truly? They have already established the cruelty of Reynard, why bring an innocent animal into it? Yes I know it was fictional, but it ruined the series for me. If they had done that to a child character, imagine the outcry. Many people feel about their pets as if they are children. I now feel that the show is ruined for me. Scenes of horrible cruelty switching to scenes of mild comedy are an abuse of their viewers. The whole thing is so muddled, that it has become barely watchable as is. That last episode was the last straw for me, and I hope many others. The producers need to know that there are certain boundaries that must not be crossed. ˇhe depiction of the torture of pets or children is one of those.

[iMonrey]

I agree with you to an extent, Watcher9 - I myself was horrified by the cat mutilation and subsequent biting off of Marina's fingers. However, there's a certain "market" for this type of horror - when it's properly packaged and expected. Look how popular the Saw movies are. My gripe, as I stated above, is that they include these horrific torture scenes alongside more humorous scenes and fantasy scenes. You tune into the show expecting it to meet a certain genre standard you get these awful gore scenes thrown in you aren't prepared for.  You can't have characters running around a fantasy land like Fillory and cracking jokes about pooping the magical well one minute and then cut to a scene where someone is mutilating a cat and torturing a young woman. It just doesn't really work. 

[diebartdie]

I reckon if Buffy the Vampire Slayer were being made today, it would be the exact same way, 1 goofy scene followed by one gory scene followed by a sexytimes scene followed by a song and dance number followed by a beheading, etc. The Magicians is a blend of horror, fantasy and comedy. Sheesh, The Lord of the Rings trilogy was a blend too (although MUCH higher caliber and 20 years tamer gore). The cat scene was no more gratuitous than Julia's really freaking graphic rape. Rape. A violent, bloody rape. You were ok with that but you want to quit the show when a cat gets flipped inside out. Okee dokee.

[Mabinogia]

I can't stand the jumping from comedy to horror, at least not the way this show is doing it. Cute, funny moment, cat being turned inside out. Hehe, look at how funny it is they are all trying to kill each other, Marina about to get eaten alive. For me it diminishes each side of the coin. The comedy is not as funny because I'm horrified by what is going on in Julia World and the gore/horror isn't as impactful because I was laughing a few seconds ago. It is, for me, a poor creative choice, but apparently TIIC think it's great. I just read an article where they were praising the guy who's idea it is to switch back and forth. Ugh.

[hincandenza]

On 2/9/2017 at 0:06 AM, GaT said:

I spend most of my time watching this show feeling confused.

You and me both!  I wasn't remembering what that charm bracelet Alice wore was all about, or the rules of Umber's... whatever (I thought he'd been confined to that stone room where Quentin and Julia first found him, but then Martin was saying he had to leave Fillory?).  I had no idea what the hell happened to Alice: did she do some spell overload but somehow Kobayashi Maru it into being super powered?  Did she steal the Beast's power and that's why she was all robotic and mechanical?  And with the Beast gone, did all his power just go into the well again, or is it in Alice and Fillory is still dying, or... ?  I'm just glad the Beast is gone, because the idiot parade was getting staaaaale, so at least now they only have one boring Big Bad to pursue.  Sigh.  

I'm very confused right now... and not sure I want to stick around because of how dumb everyone is being.

 

On 2/9/2017 at 0:41 PM, Alpharius said:

I kind of hate this show, why are in all universes with magic all the people who have said magic so stupid?

You're warned the big evil wizard put a curse on the castle, and that's not the first thing you share when you come back to Fillory?  You don't suspect anything in the throne room since the curse specifically is meant to target new Kings and Queens of Fillory? Quentin, I want you and your team to lose and for Martin to kill you all, and to end magic because all magicians are dumb assholes.

Also, Julia, way to portray your entire gender as idiotic and emotional.  You deserved what you got and deserve more the longer you act like an idiot.

Oh god, preach it!  I actually had to pause and stomp around the room for a bit just to work my frustration out of my system.  I absolutely hated this episode, and am probably on reflection rage-quitting this show now.

The not sharing of the curse information, the sitting on throne and drinking from the royal goblets after you heard about a curse, the sloth-like glacial plate tectonic slowness of Julia staring at Reynard (oh my god, you've been psychotically obsessing about this guy for days now, just fucking STAB him!), the sheer mind-boggling coincidence that the exact time Penny pops in is when they have Reynard frozen (literally 10 seconds later and Reynard is dead while Marina lives), the generally stupidity of every plan they have formed, the inability to work together even remotely effectively... everything is just one bad example after another of how shitty, untalented writers cannot tell a story that flows.  Every thing that happens now to forward the plot is a) an absurd coincidence/chance, or b) people behaving in a way that goes far beyond mere stupid.  It's insulting to our intelligence.

The shame of it is, I've never read the books and didn't discover the show until a few weeks ago on Netflix.  I was surprised how much I enjoyed season 1, from the realistic dialogue, to people behaving as people (mostly), to the general tone of self-awareness and genre-savvy tongue-in-cheek sly humor, it was a breath of fresh air... right up until Julia fucked up the ending of the last season.  So to see this season descend further into Bad Decision-Making Theater, it's just not worth it.  Christ, this is like the way the second season of "Silicon Valley" went completely into the crapper, making everyone stupid because it maintains a status quo of crisis-of-the-week episodes to churn out.

What a couple of disappointing nose dives.

 

8 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

I can't stand the jumping from comedy to horror, at least not the way this show is doing it. Cute, funny moment, cat being turned inside out. Hehe, look at how funny it is they are all trying to kill each other, Marina about to get eaten alive. For me it diminishes each side of the coin. The comedy is not as funny because I'm horrified by what is going on in Julia World and the gore/horror isn't as impactful because I was laughing a few seconds ago. It is, for me, a poor creative choice, but apparently TIIC think it's great. I just read an article where they were praising the guy who's idea it is to switch back and forth. Ugh.

I agree with this; the first season seemed to balance it better, with the brutal stuff kind of in its own episodes and giving the show weight, but having funner episodes as well.  Jumping back and forth from scene to scene diminishes both as you so aptly put it.  And on top of that, the characters behaving in an idiotic manner just to ensure pieces A, B, and C can be there for climactic battle X further distances us from an emotional attachment: we've all had that feeling where characters act so dumb, you start to think "Fuck it, I want them to die now".

[paramitch]

Oh, man, this episode really destroyed me. I'm a book-reader so I knew it was coming, but... wow. Poor Alice. And poor Marina. And poor Cupcake!

I thought the cursed thrones were pretty funny, and that Penny's solution was clever, but I also thought they provided nice foreshadowing to the episode's end. And the way the stakes ramped up as the episode went on was very effective for me, especially with the two parallel confrontations between Reynard/Marina and between the Beast/Alice/Quentin.

Marina did some terrible things (I'll never forgive her for poor Kady's Mom), but I couldn't help but admire how brave she was in the face of certain (and very painful) imminent death and humiliation. I was also horrified by Reynard's treatment of Cupcake the cat (and yes, I'm a cat owner who cringed at it), but at the same time -- I felt it worked dramatically. Of course he would kill a cat. We've seen him casually kill human after human, so I would have found it a bit ridiculous for him NOT to hurt an animal -- especially one that Marina palpably loved. (And I thought that was a nice character note to have the cat because of what it told us about Marina and her exterior toughness -- that despite that "I don't care attitude" she practiced, that she visibly loved her pet.) 

I took faint consolation in the fact that it looked like Reynard killed her quickly -- a much more merciful death than the one he'd been planning before Julia and the Beast showed up.

And the actors on this show are just wonderful and lovely. They're funny when they need to be and emotive or heartbreaking when they need to be. Jason Ralph was so good here, especially, but they all were. And I loved the little moments between Eliot and Margo, between Quentin and Alice, and even between Marina and Julia. And I'll miss Charles Mesure, who was way too charming for his own good as The Beast/Martin.

On 2/9/2017 at 6:30 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Awwww, Alice! I like that they found a way to bring her book fate happen. After the S1 finale, I figured they were just going to veer away from the book plots. As much as I like Alice, I like that the show isn't afraid to take her out like that.

Oh, Julia, fucking things up again. Honestly, I felt bad for her. She was so close to getting Reynard. But Quentin warned her that they were going after the Beast, so she should have known to put a rush on going after Reynard.

One thing I appreciated about this Beast/Julia/Reynard plot is that it gave us some grey area. Both Reynard and the Beast need to be stopped and both teams were on a clock. Who is more important to kill? Julia framed her need to kill Reynard as altruistic because he was going after other hedge witches, but realistically she just wanted revenge. Quentin et al going after the Beast was rooted in trying to save magic in all worlds with the pleasant side effect that someone who had ruthlessly attacked them would die in the process. That's why I don't understand Bigby and Julia not wanting to get onboard. Killing the Beast wasn't about a vendetta - if magic disappeared, they would ALL lose their magic.

Heh, loved Ember shitting in the wellspring. I mean, that's definitely not going to be good for Fillory or magic in general, but it was still hilarious. Bonus: it thwarted the Beast's plans!

I felt much the same -- I also really liked the way they handled the foreshadowing of becoming a Niffin, and how Alice had become a creature of pure cold rage and with no love in her. I am confused by the ending because we saw her body and yet she became a Niffin -- she burned up. There should not have been a body. So it'll be interesting to see what happens in the next episode there.

On 2/9/2017 at 10:28 AM, iMonrey said:

While I think this season is an overall improvement over last season so far, I'm still having a problem with the fact that the tone of the show is all over the map. There's a disturbing clash of tone, in fact, as the show cuts back and forth between scenes that are largely played for laughs and scenes that are so violent and gruesome they seem to belong to another show altogether.

For me, the show's complex tone is one of its greatest pleasures. It makes the show feel more immediate and real to me, first off, because it's more how people actually are -- especially these particular people. And for me it works powerfully with the subtext -- that on some level all of these things -- adulthood, magic, gods, demons, children -- are all equally terrifying.

And the fast-paced dark comic/dramatic tone is very true to John McNamara's work -- it was true on the splendid, if short-lived "Eyes," and on "Profit." And it was definitely an element of the Grossman books. So it's definitely something I enjoyed about the show last season and this one as well.

On 2/9/2017 at 1:46 PM, Philbert said:

The one character I'm really surprised that I am sorry to see go is Marina. She totally kicked ass in this episode. So, you're kidnapped by an insane God who is about to torture you and then eat your heart and your response is "Bored, now." That's so totally Evil Willow Rosenberg (yeah, I'm a Buffy geek, sue me). 

Really good episode. I enjoyed last season just fine but this season is really chugging along quite nicely.

I love Kacey Rohl, and will miss Marina (I loved Rohl on "Hannibal"). I was a little unhappy with Marina as a character last season -- I felt she was over the top and a little cartoonishly evil in the middle of last season, but I thought the writers kind of course-corrected pretty nicely and I was actually touched by her scenes with Julia in the finale of Season 1. And again here, she had some really nice moments that continued to make her complex -- the very funny sarcastic prayer to the goddess, her badass courage in standing up to Reynard, her grief when he killed her cat, etc. I was definitely rooting for her to get to the knife first, dammit.

On 2/9/2017 at 2:27 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

ETA: ha, I just got the title of this episode. Ember, you scatological troublemaker!

Okay, this made me laugh out loud, because it works on both levels -- as Julia's goal, and as Ember's, um, gift to the wellspring. 

On 2/9/2017 at 2:55 PM, grandemocha said:

Yeah, Marina was the kind of "evil" character I thoroughly enjoyed. I would've hardcore begged for my life but she was pretty tough in front of Reynard. I'm not even going to pretend otherwise, I VERY much hope the show finds some way to have Alice pop up now and then throughout the season because she is my favorite character and I really like what the actress has done on the show. I felt so bad for her and Quentin.

I did too. I hope there will be ways for us to still see Alice on the show. And will she be Niffin-Alice?

16 hours ago, Hanahope said:

So I liked how they finally did the book 1 ending (for the most part), but now I'm wondering if Alice is really dead, or is her spirit still niflin? 

Yeah, that was definitely the big question at the end of the episode. Based on the show's depiction of Niffins and how they work, there should be no body left at all. Alice burned up and became a Niffin. So that's why I was confused by the shot of a dead Alice on the ground. We'll have to see what happens.

9 hours ago, Watcher9 said:

I am not happy with the amount of gratuitous gore and cruelty that does not serve to advance the plot. In particular, the unnecessary depiction of the torture murder of Marina's cat. Was that necessary truly? They have already established the cruelty of Reynard, why bring an innocent animal into it? Yes I know it was fictional, but it ruined the series for me. If they had done that to a child character, imagine the outcry. 

"The Magicians" already depicted child molestation and multiple child-murders last season, so it's not as if the show won't go really, really dark when it needs to.

I do know what you mean -- the scene with the cat was upsetting. And as an animal-lover, I hate seeing violence to animals on television, but I also think the show handled this fairly and that it was meant to be a genuinely horrible moment. As I mentioned earlier in this post, I would have found it hypocritical for him NOT to harm the cat -- he's already mowed down dozens of people and was preparing to eat Marina alive. Slowly. So for me, yes, it was horrible, but it was also meant to be horrible. And it was also effective -- it was the first time Marina showed Reynard a real reaction that he was able to get to her (which was exactly what he wanted).

It's certainly not going to make me stop watching the show. The scene with the rabbit last season was, if possible, even worse. But evil gods and dark magicians are going to do horrible things, and the show does a good job of making me believe that -- and that no one (and no creature) is safe from them.

As far as the episode itself, I thought it was structurally really strong. I loved last season, and so far I'm very happy with season 2 thus far.

[KaleyFirefly]

On 2/9/2017 at 1:28 PM, iMonrey said:

I really kind of wish the show would simply dispense with Julia and her story. I know it's there in the books but it's what's taking me out of the rest of the show and preventing me from fully enjoying the other characters, whether they are at Brakebills or in Fillory.

I know. I liked the Julia story better in the books, but even then not as much as the story with all the other characters.

[KaleyFirefly]

He killed Cupcake the cat! RIP Cupcake :-(  I was more upset about the cat than about Marina -- I honestly never liked her character. She wasn't in the books, and she was annoying on this show. (Also I can't watch any scene where anything bad happens to an animal). What I hated was that Julia was standing there with the knife and not using it. Stupid Julia.

I agree that the tone of the show is often jarring, switching from comedy to horror, although they have done that in other episodes. But maybe it was worse in this episode. But if you think about it, the fact they were all trying to kill each other from the curse was pretty horrible, they were just playing it as comedy.

In the books Alice becomes a niffin to save everyone from The Beast. Her body burns up though, and turns into a niffin spirit, so I don't know why they showed her dead body on the ground at the end.

Spoiler

(This is not the end of her story in the books...I recommend reading them, they are different from the show but I really enjoyed them).

Stupid Quentin for not immediately sharing what he knew about a cursed throne room.

I liked the visual of the caco-demons, that was something I had pictured from the books. They were supposed to have a special code word to let them out though.

Ember...ewww. That can't bode well for Fillory.

I am really tired of Julia's story. It's dragging on too long now. I really don't like her. She expects the others to care about her mission but she doesn't give a shit about theirs. And she was unnecessarily mean to Penny! My beautiful shirtless Penny!

[waving feather]

This episode was impactful enough to make me post, so they are doing something right. This season actually is stronger to me because of the characters and how they have all became friends. Q is also less emo and more effectual this season.

That scene with the cat and Marina was horrifying and sad but I wasn't surprised because this show has never hesitated to go all the way with that kind of stuff. Julia's memories of summoning Reynard the first time with her group was way more gory and worse than this. It showed multiple people being killed in gruesome manners (hearts ripped out, etc) and a very violent rape. And remember that haunted Plover's mansion in season 1, where all those poor housekeepers' kids were slowly drugged and killed? Geez. So sick. But I think all this is to show what a dangerous and horrifying world they are in. Not Hogwarts, for sure.

Edited February 11, 2017 by waving feather

[ElectricBoogaloo]

5 hours ago, paramitch said:

For me, the show's complex tone is one of its greatest pleasures. It makes the show feel more immediate and real to me, first off, because it's more how people actually are -- especially these particular people. And for me it works powerfully with the subtext -- that on some level all of these things -- adulthood, magic, gods, demons, children -- are all equally terrifying.

And the fast-paced dark comic/dramatic tone is very true to John McNamara's work -- it was true on the splendid, if short-lived "Eyes," and on "Profit." And it was definitely an element of the Grossman books. So it's definitely something I enjoyed about the show last season and this one as well.

I agree. The comedic moments bring some much needed levity, especially in episodes like this where some particularly bad things are happening. The show has had funny scenes to balance the serious ones since S1. Quentin singing "Shake It Off" was ridiculously off the wall but hilarious.

I love animals (to the point where Mr. EB has forbidden me from watching any of those shows on Animal Planet where pets are rescued from terrible homes because I end up sobbing) and usually on tv shows, I'm more upset about the animals than the humans being hurt. But I don't think that Cupcake being turned inside out was any worse than several of the things that have already been depicted on this show (including Julia's rape, Reynard biting Marina's finger off so she couldn't do any magic, Martin being molested, and the Beast reminding us in the previous episode that Plovver was supposed to take care of him but he "bent him over and had his way" with him every chance he got). These are terrible things, but they're supposed to be terrible things. For the record, I hate horror films and refuse to watch scary movies anymore (the last time I saw one was in college) and I don't find the violence on this show to be gratuitous. I find it to be realistically horrifying to illustrate exactly why these characters are fighting so hard against the bad guys.

Finally, someone else who watched Eyes! I have still never seen those last few unaired episodes.

Edited February 11, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Making Magic:

[feverfew]

Good God, Julia! I've been one of your staunchest defenders, but you've gone and done it now: I don't think you can come back from this for me. How in the world did she not just stab Reynard the moment Martin froze him? Was it to gloat? Both Marina and Alice's death are on your head now (...and if they proceed to turn her into Q's love interest again, I will cut a bitch).

That off my chest, I really enjoyed this episode. The balance between humor and gore has always worked for me, and while I did have to look away from the cat scene, it was totally in character for Reynard and a s such, I didn't find it excessive. As @paramitch pointed out up thread, it was the only way to show Marina breaking.

I want more Eliot and Margot.

[ketose]

Unfortunately, the episode was too much like the title. Just a big ole pile.

I'm not sure how I'll feel about the rest of the season.

[Luckylyn]

I'm so sad about Alice.  She was one of my favorites.  Poor Quintin.  He so desperately wanted a chance with her again but ends ups being forced to kill her.  I really hope he's done defending Julia.

Julia really is obnoxious.  She has justified reasons for going after Reynard but her methods are completely selfish.  She could have worked with the others to defeat the Beast and then as a team they all could have gone after Reynard.  Julia is not a team player.  She has to be in control and seems to feel self righteous about her suffering with little empathy for the suffering she causes as she pursues her goals.  To her, her way is the only way and she isn't capable of listening to others even if it's helpful.

What she did to Penn ripping off the bracelets is a prime example of her awfulness?  She's mad at Penny so she takes away the only thing stopping him from causing harm with his hands.  Does Julia stop to think that without both bracelets Penny is very likely to harm some innocent accidentally?  Of course not but to Julia only her feelings matter.

I should feel more sympathy over her justified rage at Reynard, but I can't because she's so self centered and careless about harming others.  Julia sometimes feels guilty and wants to believe she's a good person, but she isn't.  Julia wants what she wants when she wants it and oozes an attitude of entitlement that makes it extremely difficult to root for her.   She never learns from her mistakes.

Edited February 12, 2017 by Luckylyn

[Mabinogia]

If this wasn't based on a book series in which Julia is a regular I would think she was the long term villain.

I'm still heartbroken over Alice. She was my favorite female character. And the the only one I really rooted for. With her gone, not sure how much I care anymore. Sure, Penny is stunning to look at, and Elliot is fun but Q is mostly annoying and Margo is far too affected for me to really like her or care what happens to her.

I never read the books so I didn't know Alice's death was coming and always thought of her as the female lead. Guess that's Julia, in which case, I might not be able to stick around much longer. I loathe her more every episode.

[tennisgurl]

Freaking Julia. I have REALLY tried to cut her some slack this season, after everything she went through last season, but ye Gods. Her selfishness basically just got Marina AND Alice killed, not to mention poor Cupcake. She didn't mean to hurt anyone, but she is so short sighted, and so obsessed with revenge, that she doesn't seem to care about anyone else, or anything else from revenge. She could have helped the rest of the gang kill The Beast, and then they would have probably helped her get Renard, but NO, she has to do everything herself. She seems to think she's just about the greatest witch around, and...she's not. At all.

Poor Alice! I'm heartbroken! She was such a great character, and I thought the actress did a great job being sweet, without being boring. And her and Q were about to get back together maybe! And poor Q. He tried to save Julia like 5 times, including in this episode in the middle of their plot, and what's his reward? He has to kill Alice. This is not going to do his mental health any favors. Also, RIP and Marina and poor little Cupcake. I didn't love Marina like I loved Alice, but I enjoyed her, and will miss her as a morally grey supporting character. Renard, you suck.

I did enjoy the wacky hijinks early on, and how quickly it went from comedy to the dramatic ending. To me, the transitions between funny to tragic works really well here. Its easier to get wrapped up in the characters and their struggles when you see them being funny and likable, as well as seeing them struggle or even die. If it was just all drama all the time, this show would be a slough to sit through, especially for a fantasy show, and if it was all comedy, we might not have the level of seriousness and character development we get here. To me, the combination makes the humor moments more of a relief, and makes the sad or scary moments more horrifying. It works for me. Plus, it was fun seeing Penny, the resident Asshole King, be stuck playing peace keeper. Holy crap, even PENNY is a better team player than Julia!

For real, if they're going to act like Julia is our new Leading Lady, I'm going to be pissed. I knew Alice. Alice was a friend of mine. You, miss, are no Alice.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 2/11/2017 at 0:09 AM, hincandenza said:

I wasn't remembering what that charm bracelet Alice wore was all about, or the rules of Umber's... whatever (I thought he'd been confined to that stone room where Quentin and Julia first found him, but then Martin was saying he had to leave Fillory?).  I had no idea what the hell happened to Alice: did she do some spell overload but somehow Kobayashi Maru it into being super powered?  Did she steal the Beast's power and that's why she was all robotic and mechanical?

Alice made the bracelet using one of the artifacts in the Beast's recreation of Plover's room in the first episode. There were several items in the room that the others weren't able to touch (when they tried to pick them up, the items burned them). Only Alice could pick them up easily without feeling pain because she had special god power thanks to Ember's semen. She knew that the effect was only temporary so she made the bracelet as a way of gauging how much god power she had left, which was the reason they had to hurry to find a way to find the Beast and kill him sooner rather than later. In the middle of the episode, she said the bracelet was starting to hurt, which meant her god power was waning.

She turned into a niffin in her final attack of the Beast, which is why the "previously on" section at the beginning of this episode made it a point to remind us this is the same thing that happened to her brother Charlie. If you use too much magic at once, it will consume you, turning you into an emotionless but violent niffin. Just as niffin Charlie tried to kill his own sister when she found him in the fountain, niffin Alice has no compunction about attacking Quentin, Eliot, or Margo. Alice underlines this by telling Margo that they mean nothing to her now.

[Mabinogia]

12 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I knew Alice. Alice was a friend of mine. You, miss, are no Alice.

Well said. There will be a big hole in this show now. 3 characters I found interesting gone in one ep. Nice going show.

12 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Holy crap, even PENNY is a better team player than Julia!

Because, well, yeah, when Penny is better at helping others you really need to go reevaluate your life choices there lady.

[iMonrey]

Quote

The Magicians is a blend of horror, fantasy and comedy. 

Well - it aspires to be that, but I don't think the elements are actually blending very well. 

Quote

For me it diminishes each side of the coin. The comedy is not as funny because I'm horrified by what is going on in Julia World and the gore/horror isn't as impactful because I was laughing a few seconds ago. 

Exactly.  Buffy managed to handle this much better. This show has the two extremes of violence/horror and tongue-in-cheek humor without the balance. It just teeter-totters back and forth.

I can see why some would praise it for doing so because on the surface it seems daring and edgy to do this. And I agree the attempt is interesting . . . I just don't think it quite works. "A" for effort but "D" for execution.

[chrisvee]

I agree that the contrast between the horror and the comedy is too much. It's as if the Julia storyline and the Brakebills/Fillory storyline are happening in two different shows. IMO they need to take some of the edge off the really graphic horror.

[Mabinogia]

People have been bringing up Buffy the Vampire Slayer and how well they blended horror and humor, which they did. But I was trying to think what the difference is, why I never even noticed it in Buffy while here I find it so distracting. I think part of it might be, most of Buffy's deaths were during fights while the horror here is basically torture porn. Julia getting raped, Marina's cat getting turned inside out, Marina nearly being eaten alive. This isn't fun, snarky vampire slaying, it's very strong, powerful beings torturing weaker beings. I was going to say innocents but that could be debatable with Marina. And it's just...disturbing.

I didn't mind the gang trying to kill each other because that was reminiscent of Buffy, that kind of morbid humor. But weaving that in with someone trapped about to be eaten alive is just too much. IDK, for me it was just a very strange choice for the show to make. They were probably trying to keep the episode from being too dark, but you are going to commit to what they did with the Beast and Marina, maybe you should respect that story enough to let the episode be dark.

[Adira]

So a lot of people have complained about how Julia didn't stab Reynard with the knife.  Why do people think that that would work?  The knife was meant to kill a Master Magician, not a god.  I mean, sure, she definitely could have tried it, but the whole reason she teamed up with The Beast was because he had dealt with gods before.  If she thought all she needed was the knife, she would've killed The Beast right from the get-go and then taken the knife to use against Reynard.  I was definitely under the impression the knife probably wouldn't have been enough to kill a god.

[call me ishmael]

I think she needed the Beast to freeze Reynard not to kill him.  He was going to hold him so she would be able to stab Reynard.  But she was too busy gloating or whatever.

[Adira]

That definitely wasn't the impression I had.  When she grabbed the Beast, she was all "I need you because you know how to f up gods."  If she really just needed him to freeze the Beast, I would've thought she would have worded it differently.  Like "You're the only one powerful enough to stop him so I can get close enough to stab him!"

[Mari]

On 2/16/2017 at 3:06 PM, Adira said:

So a lot of people have complained about how Julia didn't stab Reynard with the knife.  Why do people think that that would work?  The knife was meant to kill a Master Magician, not a god.  I mean, sure, she definitely could have tried it, but the whole reason she teamed up with The Beast was because he had dealt with gods before.  

I have no clue whether or not it would work, but Julia seems to think it would--to the point she betrayed the others and abandoned them to their fate, or lack thereof, to get it and Martin's cooperation.  Then, after that, she just stood there and contemplated the universe and her place in it when they were actually dealing with Reynard.

If you are going to betray people and cut your ties with them in order to finish your revenge quest, you should probably be ready to actually try the stabbing.

[Adira]

15 hours ago, Mari said:

I have no clue whether or not it would work, but Julia seems to think it would--to the point she betrayed the others and abandoned them to their fate, or lack thereof, to get it and Martin's cooperation.  Then, after that, she just stood there and contemplated the universe and her place in it when they were actually dealing with Reynard.

If you are going to betray people and cut your ties with them in order to finish your revenge quest, you should probably be ready to actually try the stabbing.

That wasn't my interpretation either.  I thought she took the knife to get Martin's cooperation because she knew he had killed a god before and messed with Ember.  If all she needed was the knife, she could've let them kill Martin and then just taken the knife.  I was under the impression the only reason she took the knife was to get Martin to help her.

[AudienceofOne]

On 10/02/2017 at 0:30 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 

One thing I appreciated about this Beast/Julia/Reynard plot is that it gave us some grey area. Both Reynard and the Beast need to be stopped and both teams were on a clock. Who is more important to kill?

But 'the clock' was completely artificial and the result of a somewhat ridiculous contrivance. It wouldn't have happened if Julia had worked with everybody from the beginning instead of fucking them over. 

On 13/02/2017 at 5:32 AM, Luckylyn said:

I'm so sad about Alice.  She was one of my favorites.  Poor Quintin.  He so desperately wanted a chance with her again but ends ups being forced to kill her.  I really hope he's done defending Julia.

Julia really is obnoxious.  She has justified reasons for going after Reynard but her methods are completely selfish.  She could have worked with the others to defeat the Beast and then as a team they all could have gone after Reynard.  Julia is not a team player.  She has to be in control and seems to feel self righteous about her suffering with little empathy for the suffering she causes as she pursues her goals.  To her, her way is the only way and she isn't capable of listening to others even if it's helpful.

What she did to Penn ripping off the bracelets is a prime example of her awfulness?  She's mad at Penny so she takes away the only thing stopping him from causing harm with his hands.  Does Julia stop to think that without both bracelets Penny is very likely to harm some innocent accidentally?  Of course not but to Julia only her feelings matter.

I should feel more sympathy over her justified rage at Reynard, but I can't because she's so self centered and careless about harming others.  Julia sometimes feels guilty and wants to believe she's a good person, but she isn't.  Julia wants what she wants when she wants it and oozes an attitude of entitlement that makes it extremely difficult to root for her.   She never learns from her mistakes.

I wish I knew how the show runners felt about her character because sometimes I feel like they don't realise what they've put on screen. This episode, for example, we're supposed to see the group as interfering with Julia's plan to kill the Fox. We're supposed to yell NO! when the Beast gets transported away because !she finally had him! But that relies on us ignoring an entire season of what happened and ignoring the fact that she had already fucked over Marina to get to this point. The fact they chose to make the timing work this way suggests it's Julia we're supposed to be rooting for. I just can't. 

On 13/02/2017 at 6:12 AM, Mabinogia said:

If this wasn't based on a book series in which Julia is a regular I would think she was the long term villain.

As far as I'm concerned, she is. And I agree with the rest of your comment about Alice. Unlike Julia, she sacrificed everything - even her humanity - to get the Beast. She was the strongest female character by far. Her death was amazing narratively speaking but it was also annoying in terms of the ongoing characterisation of the show. I particularly liked how she wasn't forgiving Quentin for what he did. Actions are forgivable but Alice knew that what she was dealing with was his inherent insecurities and that isn't something you get over.

Edited April 23, 2017 by AudienceofOne

[Camera One]

This was an intense episode.  But it was also very frustrating to watch because pretty much everything that could go wrong went wrong.  As others said above, if they had worked together, they might have been able to destroy both the Beast and the god.  Stuff like ripping the bracelets off Penny's wrists was just malicious.  She can't justify that killing the god was more important than killing the Beast since they were both killing innocent people.  

I hate gore, but I've been watching quite a few gory shows lately.  I have to look away sometimes.  But I wasn't surprised at the cat given what happened to the rabbit last season and I'm just as disturbed by murders of humans.  So in some ways, I didn't mind the lighter aspects of the episode, though the killing each other curse felt a little like filler, to force some of them to lose the demons on their backs so the heroes would face a more dire situation.  I can't help feeling it was all a little contrived.

I'm getting a little tired of shows which make a murderer (in this case Marina) the victim and manipulates the viewer into feeling sorry for them by putting them into a life and death situation.  What she did to Kady's mom was truly evil yet I was really hoping she would survive in this episode.

So overall, I think I have a like/dislike relationship with this show.  The fantasy elements draw me in but the gore turns me off.  But I like the characters (with the exception of Julia) enough to stick with it.  

I haven't read the books so I didn't expect what happened to Alice and I have no idea where they're going to go with that.  If Alice is truly gone, I'm going to be really sad.  

Edited April 15, 2018 by Camera One

[chediavolo]

On 2/10/2017 at 5:27 PM, Watcher9 said:

I am not happy with the amount of gratuitous gore and cruelty that does not serve to advance the plot. In particular, the unnecessary depiction of the torture murder of Marina's cat. Was that necessary truly? They have already established the cruelty of Reynard, why bring an innocent animal into it? Yes I know it was fictional, but it ruined the series for me. If they had done that to a child character, imagine the outcry. Many people feel about their pets as if they are children. I now feel that the show is ruined for me. Scenes of horrible cruelty switching to scenes of mild comedy are an abuse of their viewers. The whole thing is so muddled, that it has become barely watchable as is. That last episode was the last straw for me, and I hope many others. The producers need to know that there are certain boundaries that must not be crossed. ˇhe depiction of the torture of pets or children is one of those.

I am new to this series I find it interesting & weird but the Torturing of the cat was not necessary and is making me think twice about watching the show again. Really they had to do that? As an animal lover it sticks with me and just ruins  the show for me because I can’t get it out of my head.  had to hide my eyes while it was going on 😞😡