All In The Family - General Discussion

[Meredith Quill]

A place to discuss particular episodes, arcs and moments from All in the Family.

[Blergh]

OK, I'll start the ball rolling by putting out one my fave moments (which also shows how comparatively coy things were then ):

 

 Archie-" Then to top the whole day off, I had to ride on the subway sitting next to a guy who'd had beans for lunch!"

 Edith-" Oh, that's terrible.  .. . How did you know?"

[Driad]

A recent episode of Antiques Roadshow included a plaid jacket worn by Carroll O'Connor on the show. 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/roadshow/watch/episode/2107-palm-springs-hour-1/

[Mountainair]

I still love this show and find it relevant. The older I get the more I find Mike an ass and tend to side with Archie. Archie's malapropisms are still great! 

I just caught the Edith almost gets raped episodes and they get me everytime. You can really feel her fear. This was on the night of her 50th birthday. It's amazing how much things change because I don't know any 49 year olds that look as old as Edith Bunker did at 49!

[CeeBeeGee]

I recently caught most of that episode ("Edith's 50th Birthday") and it's pretty mind-boggling. The show was doing something that had never been done before, I don't think--Lear was on the cutting edge of using a sitcom to showcase actual social and relevant issues--and I think either the director or the showrunners were unsure of exactly how to present such a horrifying scenario with such a beloved character.  The audience laughs quite a bit during the first part of the attack--I think they were expecting a "gotcha!" moment where someone walks in or somehow the rape is derailed. When it becomes clear he's actually going to DO this, the piece of filth was actually attacking our Edith, it seemed the laughter was much more nervous then. The actor who played the rapist mentioned that when he first gets violent with Edith and throws her on the couch, he could feel the mood changing abruptly, the audience HATED Him. And I think I've read somewhere that when she pushes the cake in his face, you can hear audience members yelling at her to run. It is an uneasy mixture of comedy (the incredulous look on the rapist's face when she babbling on and on) and awkward semi-violence (he kisses her an AWFUL lot and also talks a lot) that really only would've been done at this particular moment in time, with this show. In another 5-10 years the audience, trained by Very Special Episodes, would've been completely silent and known what to expect, and I think the show wouldn't have pulled its punches quite so much. Still, an extraordinary episode. All in the Family really was an  amazing show.

[Mountainair]

I agree. Its hard to imagine myself at Edith's age and being intimidated by that creep. He just didn't come across as menacing and dangerous. Which harkens back to my original point that today's average 49 year old female is probably a lot different than Edith's. 

I own the first season but have been DVR'ing this when it airs. We are in to the baby Joey era (I prefer pre baby era). I miss Lionel! He was a good actor, handsome too!

Edited April 27, 2017 by Mountainair

[greekmom]

On 4/24/2017 at 9:25 PM, Mountainair said:

I still love this show and find it relevant. The older I get the more I find Mike an ass and tend to side with Archie. Archie's malapropisms are still great! 

I just caught the Edith almost gets raped episodes and they get me everytime. You can really feel her fear. This was on the night of her 50th birthday. It's amazing how much things change because I don't know any 49 year olds that look as old as Edith Bunker did at 49!

I totally agree. Mike was an ass. I found the fact that Archie could be sexists and narrow minded but he was a product of his time and generation.  Plus Archie always had his wife and daughter's and later on Stephanie's best interests (or he thought so) in mind.

Mike was very pompus, arrogant and sexist himself. Alot of stuff that he commented on Gloria were very sexists even for someone who was suppose to be very forward thinking.  He would put self first before his wife and son. 

[Blergh]

On ‎4‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 5:18 PM, CeeBeeGee said:

I recently caught most of that episode ("Edith's 50th Birthday") and it's pretty mind-boggling. The show was doing something that had never been done before, I don't think--Lear was on the cutting edge of using a sitcom to showcase actual social and relevant issues--and I think either the director or the showrunners were unsure of exactly how to present such a horrifying scenario with such a beloved character.  The audience laughs quite a bit during the first part of the attack--I think they were expecting a "gotcha!" moment where someone walks in or somehow the rape is derailed. When it becomes clear he's actually going to DO this, the piece of filth was actually attacking our Edith, it seemed the laughter was much more nervous then. The actor who played the rapist mentioned that when he first gets violent with Edith and throws her on the couch, he could feel the mood changing abruptly, the audience HATED Him. And I think I've read somewhere that when she pushes the cake in his face, you can hear audience members yelling at her to run. It is an uneasy mixture of comedy (the incredulous look on the rapist's face when she babbling on and on) and awkward semi-violence (he kisses her an AWFUL lot and also talks a lot) that really only would've been done at this particular moment in time, with this show. In another 5-10 years the audience, trained by Very Special Episodes, would've been completely silent and known what to expect, and I think the show wouldn't have pulled its punches quite so much. Still, an extraordinary episode. All in the Family really was an  amazing show.

 I think it was a very vital episode in that with Edith Bunker who was a universal audience fave, there was absolutely ZERO question that she in no way had 'brought it on' much less 'deserved' it and it persuaded the audience to consider the victim's point of view!  Originally this had been intended for Ann Romano of 'ODAAT' but, shrewdly, Mr. Lear etc. realized that it would have far more of an impact and ultimately be helpful to victims if it happened to Edith instead!

[Locutus]

Beverly Lasalle's death was another wringer. And I'll always remember Archie telling Mike that HE was too good for Gloria, after Gloria's affair was revealed.

[cfinboston]

Standouts for me include the one where they wind up in court because Archie has a tear gas sprayer. The judge asks if the police officer that found the canister had a warrant and Archie says "you don't get a warrant with them things. They either work or they don't".

The one with Edith's lesbian cousin dying. Edith in all her innocence remarks that Liz was a schoolteacher and never made much money which was why she had to share the apartment.

 

The one with cousin Amelia where Archie and Russ are at Kelseys and Russ is bragging about having an affair with his young secretary. "You know what she calls me?" And Archie deadpans "Grandpa?"

[Driad]

A couple of Archie and Mike bits, remembered from many years ago:

[arguing about guns]
Archie: Guns made America what it is today!
Mike:   For once I agree with you.

They are getting ready to go out. Archie goes to get Mike to hurry. Mike, dressed but barefoot, puts on one sock and then the shoe onto that foot. Archie says that's wrong: he should put on both socks and then both shoes. After a bit more arguing, Mike says if they both had to run out into the rain when they were half done, he would have one dry foot but Archie would have two wet socks.

[bigskygirl]

On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 7:10 PM, Driad said:

A couple of Archie and Mike bits, remembered from many years ago:

[arguing about guns]
Archie: Guns made America what it is today!
Mike:   For once I agree with you.

They are getting ready to go out. Archie goes to get Mike to hurry. Mike, dressed but barefoot, puts on one sock and then the shoe onto that foot. Archie says that's wrong: he should put on both socks and then both shoes. After a bit more arguing, Mike says if they both had to run out into the rain when they were half done, he would have one dry foot but Archie would have two wet socks.

[bigskygirl]

And the great how to get into bed scene:

[Driad]

"American Masters: Sammy Davis Jr." on PBS included a clip from Davis's guest spot on AITF.  Yes, that clip.

[zillabreeze]

How does everyone feel about the "Live" remake on ABC, 5/22?  It's one of those things that is gonna be a giant hit or giant flop.  No in between.  I'll watch.

[WritinMan]

On 5/8/2019 at 10:29 PM, zillabreeze said:

How does everyone feel about the "Live" remake on ABC, 5/22?  It's one of those things that is gonna be a giant hit or giant flop.  No in between.  I'll watch.

To me, sounds like a horrible idea.

[SoMuchTV]

On 5/8/2019 at 10:29 PM, zillabreeze said:

How does everyone feel about the "Live" remake on ABC, 5/22?  It's one of those things that is gonna be a giant hit or giant flop.  No in between.  I'll watch.

Wait, I just realized this is on ABC.  What's up with that? All in the Family was pretty much a CBS flagship. Is there a story behind this?

But, yeah, I'll be watching.

[TigerLynx]

I'm not sure they will be able to do All In The Family justice.  One of the points of the show, was that while Archie was wrong, so was Mike, and so was George Jefferson.  It was never just straight up Archie is racist and sexist, there were more subtle less obvious points being made at the same time.

[bunnyface]

On ‎5‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 9:27 PM, SoMuchTV said:

Wait, I just realized this is on ABC.  What's up with that? All in the Family was pretty much a CBS flagship. Is there a story behind this?

But, yeah, I'll be watching.

I think it's on ABC because it's a project of Jimmy Kimmel's.  I'm going to watch and hope for the best.  Hopefully it will be one of the "big" episodes (like Archie getting kissed by Sammy Davis Jr.) and we can see how those prejudices have and HAVE NOT changed.  In a lot of ways, we're just as stuck as we were back then. 

[libgirl2]

On 5/14/2019 at 3:36 PM, bunnyface said:

I think it's on ABC because it's a project of Jimmy Kimmel's.  I'm going to watch and hope for the best.  Hopefully it will be one of the "big" episodes (like Archie getting kissed by Sammy Davis Jr.) and we can see how those prejudices have and HAVE NOT changed.  In a lot of ways, we're just as stuck as we were back then. 

I want to watch it. I was  6 when the original first aired. My parents always watched it so I have early and fond memories of it. Re-watching it as an adult I finally "got" a lot of it. My favorite episode is where they are playing a board game and Mike thinks everyone is picking on him (and they are rightly so!). 

[Was-MArsenault]

Is there a separate topic for the live version?

I'm trying to look for one, but can’t seem to find it.

Edit: Never mind. I found it.

Edited May 20, 2019 by MikaelaArsenault

[Driad]

2 hours ago, MikaelaArsenault said:

Edit: Never mind. I found it.

Please share!

[Was-MArsenault]

55 minutes ago, Driad said:

Please share!

[Quickbeam]

Woody Harrelson is just killing it as Archie. Also, Marisa Tomei is great too.

[VCRTracking]

Carroll O'Connor on the transition from "All in the Family" to "Archie Bunker's Place":

I get Norman Lear not wanting to kill Edith off but treating like "Vera" from CHEERS, where she's mentioned but never seen wouldn't have worked either.

 

[UYI]

Happy 50th anniversary today to the show that changed the direction of television forever--and, on a personal note, still in my top 3-5 list of my favorite sitcoms of all time. 

[UYI]

 

[Egg McMuffin]

On 7/16/2020 at 2:12 PM, VCRTracking said:

Carroll O'Connor on the transition from "All in the Family" to "Archie Bunker's Place

I get Norman Lear not wanting to kill Edith off but treating like "Vera" from CHEERS, where she's mentioned but never seen wouldn't have worked either.

 

And it didn’t really work during the first season of ABP, where Edith appears in five episodes and is alive, but off-camera, in the rest. The show has an identity crisis that season; some episodes play like late AITF episodes, complete with Edith (and even with Mike and Gloria in a couple), and others are trying to establish the bar as the new primary setting for the show. And there are episodes during the season where Edith should appear, but she doesn’t and it’s just weird. ABP worked better once Edith died and Archie could move on with his life. Still paled in comparison to the original though.

I agree Mike can be an ass. But there’s a lovely episode toward the end of his run where he’s locked in the storeroom with Archie and Mike finally gets that Archie is the way he is because of his father. And the look on Mike’s face is just heartbreaking as he realizes this.

[shapeshifter]

From the In Memoriam: Celebrity Deaths thread:
 

3 hours ago, Blergh said:

10 hours ago, MissAlmond said:

Irma Kalish comedy writer and one of television's first female producers has died, age 96.

https://deadline.com/2021/09/irma-kalish-dead-tv-writer-producer-maude-all-in-the-family-1234827909/

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/irma-kalish-trailblazing-sitcom-writer-producer-dies-1235009021/

https://variety.com/2021/tv/news/irma-kalish-dead-96-comedy-writer-maude-1235057465/

Let's not forget that Mrs. Kalish wrote some of the most poignant episodes of All in the Family including 'Gloria the Victim' (1973) in which she comes home wearing rather austere borrowed clothes and her hair pulled back in a tight  back bun.  After a time, Gloria reveals that she had been attacked at a construction site that she'd attempted to dart through as a short cut and only because the attacker got startled by others that she was able to escape before she'd been raped. Archie and Mike (for once ) were united in their outrage over what had nearly happened to her and they insisted on calling the cops. The cop sent over attempted to blame Gloria for what happened and made jokes which further outraged Archie and Mike while Gloria decided that she didn't want to get dragged through the mud so that's why she didn't press charges. But the most poignant moments happened when Edith (of all people) quietly told Gloria of a similar experience with a friend's boyfriend (when she was a teen) who had lured her under the Coney Island Boardwalk on the pretense of a snack but Edith was able to escape harm due to her remembering her own father having instructed her to use her  knee on any attackers (but with the chilling postscript of Edith wondering all those decades later of how many other girls did that creep harm via the same tactics).  The end is rather chilling with Archie and Mike congratulating themselves for having 'protected their own' after getting rid of the inappropriate cop- while the camera ends with a closeup of Gloria silently shaking in trauma. 

In any case, she was one of the most brilliant pioneers so RIP, Mrs. Kalish (and 96 is a remarkable age to have reached). 

[Egg McMuffin]

On 9/15/2018 at 8:43 PM, cfinboston said:

The one with Edith's lesbian cousin dying. Edith in all her innocence remarks that Liz was a schoolteacher and never made much money which was why she had to share the apartment.

The one with cousin Amelia where Archie and Russ are at Kelseys and Russ is bragging about having an affair with his young secretary. "You know what she calls me?" And Archie deadpans "Grandpa?"

I like the “Cousin Liz” episode because it shows what a deeply principled person Edith Bunker had become by that point in the series. Archie threatens Liz with a lawsuit and knows that Liz, a schoolteacher, can’t go to court because she’d lose her job. Edith pleads with Archie and says to him, “I can’t believe you’d do something that mean.” And she pulls Archie back. It’s a great moment.

The cousin Amelia episode is great because it’s where you realize how committed Archie is to his wife and marriage.

I also love “The Stivics Go West”, which was intended to be the finale and if it had been, it would rank as one of the best sitcom finales of all time. For years, I couldn’t watch it without tearing up. It’s funny, it’s sad, it’s bittersweet - has it all. The shot of Archie looking through the curtains as a taxi takes Mike, Gloria, and Joey away is heartbreaking. And if you listen carefully, you can hear members of the studio audience sniffling in the background.

[DoctorAtomic]

I just started the show. It was a little early for me when it aired in that I wasn't alive for the first few seasons, and likely in a crib for a lot of the show run. I've been working through the 70s and 80s classics - Cheers, Mary Tyler Moore, Taxi, and now I'm here. I'm only on episode 3. I know the gist of the series, and the characters in general. 

It's starting off rough - Archie is constantly complaining and sniping at Edith, arguing with Mike. Not that Mike isn't picking a fight either. I was surprised at how political it was right from the jump. I was surprised with some of the language Archie could use on tv then too. I'm not really getting what the audience was laughing at so much. There's some jokes, but arguing whether well or medium is a better way to cook steak I don't see as funny. I guess the point was the Mike was correct, and Archie was just mad he was right. 

I actually like the political back and forth. I get it's a big deal that this show aired under Nixon. It's hard to wrap my head around that he's the actual president. 

I love the decor because it looks like my aunt's place, who was a contemporary of the Bunkers. I'm actually surprised they aren't smoking in the house. I totally want the elephant next to the couch. 

I was pleased with myself that I figured out Lionel, was Lionel Jefferson; he came to the house and talked about his families dry cleaning business, and I totally was, 'ah-ha! Movin' on up!'

 

 

[andidante]

I love this show! It had some really good episodes and some sad ones too. Edith is my favorite. 

[DoctorAtomic]

I have to give the actors credit; the four of them are just sitting at the table, and it's good work. They're talking about whether blood is the same. The timing is just sharp. 

[andidante]

They always did have some interesting conversations at the dinner table!

[Blergh]

On 12/22/2021 at 7:41 AM, andidante said:

They always did have some interesting conversations at the dinner table!

Interesting but by no means the most pleasant of meals! I'm surprised they weren't all hooked on Pepto Bismol from the stress of trying to eat while everyone else was arguing! 

[DoctorAtomic]

I understand the point of the show, and I think it's really interesting and important. But that doesn't mean Archie isn't necessarily right. I'm on S1E7, and the kids hippie friends come over to crash before a trip to Europe. They're making a huge deal about the visiting couple being unmarried, but the gf had filthy bare feet, and they're lighting stinky incense. No one asked Archie ahead of time if the couple could crash there. They just showed up. 

I mean, I take the point about married/unmarried and that Archie is going to have a problem with it, but it's kind of disrespectful. I'm not sure it's the place of Mike and Gloria not having a discussion first. And they had to have known he'd take issue. They're kind of bratty here. 

Archie v hippies is funny, but it put me off.

[andidante]

Mike gets on my nerves a lot! He can be very selfish and annoying at times. 

[Gemma Violet]

All in the Family debuted when I was a teen, so I've seen every episode multiple times.  I have so many favorites, it's hard to choose one, but if I had to choose, I think my favorite would be Edith's class reunion.  Archie doesn't want to attend and so Edith at first decides not to attend since she doesn't want to go without him....until she finds out that the big class heartthrob Buck Evans will be there.  She then decides to go even though Archie doesn't want to.  All of sudden, Archie decides to accompany her so he can check out this Buck Evans guy.  The reunion itself is hilarious from beginning to end.

Another of my favorites is when Archie thinks he's eaten poisoned mushrooms.  There's a news report that some cans of Pocono mushrooms have botulism in them.  Archie, who just ate Edith's stew which contained mushrooms, is convinced he's poisoned.  Hilarious episode.

There are so many other episodes I love--too many to list. 

 

[DoctorAtomic]

To be fair to Archie, when Edith suggested all the guys sleep upstairs and all the girls downstairs, he was totally fine with it. The hippie gf protested, and even Mike and Gloria at that point were like, 'come on.' So Archie had enough, and made the kids take them to the airport, like 6 hours ahead of time. 

I think they were just trying to do too many things in this one.

[DoctorAtomic]

I don't like Mike always putting his feet on the coffee table when he knows Archie doesn't like it either. 

Edith is on jury duty, and it's the first time she's not in any scenes with the family. It's nice to see the character actually breathe. Edith is much more just plain spoken than as dim as Archie always gets on her. 

I totally love the elephant and the gigantic remote control. 

[Blergh]

Let's not overlook 'The Bunkers and the Swingers' (guesting Vincent Gardenia and Rue McClanahan[!]) in which Edith meets another couple via answering a personal ad in a magazine (which she'd found in the subway) that she believes are perfectly content to trade recipes and dance partners! The late Jean Stapleton's nonverbal reactions before/after Edith says her lines once the savvy Louise Jefferson   spells out what the other couple TRULY has in mind are priceless!  

[Egg McMuffin]

Both Stapleton and Carroll O’Connor were masters of the facial reaction - perfect for a show that was shot on videotape with plenty of closeups.

[DoctorAtomic]

I tend to think there's a lot of tv that's overwritten, and the actors aren't really given the chance to actually act in the spaces in between dialogue. I watched the episode where Archie was worried he'd lose his job. He finally stopped acting hysterical for a minute and told Edith about growing up during the depression and his father lost his job. It was a real good monologue, but not a lot of lines, and Archie's face kind of just fell as he was talking about it. The gist was 'What is a man if he can't provide for his family?' Well done. 

[Egg McMuffin]

Another scene like that which comes to mind is the episode where MIke and Archie are locked in the bar storeroom and get drunk. Archie talks about his bigoted father who was physically abusive, yet Archie is defending him. It’s like a beaten dog that remains loyal to its master. There’s this look of heartbreak on Mike’s face as he finally understands why Archie is the way he is.

[DoctorAtomic]

I tend to agree with Mike for the most part. I don't know if it's the longer view of watching a 1971 show in 2021, but is Reiner playing him boorish on person? I suppose maybe the characters are playing younger than the actors so it can be off. 

I was surprised that the original George Jefferson wasn't Sherman Hemsley, but he wasn't! And he was at the Mets game!

Normally on tv they fake eating. Edith was chewing with food in her mouth. 

Edited January 1, 2022 by DoctorAtomic

[Gemma Violet]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

 

I was surprised that the original George Jefferson wasn't Sherman Hemsley, but he wasn't! 

In the beginning, there was another actor who played Mr. Jefferson, but it wasn't George Jefferson--it was George Jefferson's brother.  I could be wrong, but that's what I remember.

[DoctorAtomic]

Yes, it was. That's what I meant. The real George didn't want to go eat with the Bunkers either, so Weezy brought her brother-in-law, but him and Archie still got into it. The real George went to Mets game. Archie was supposed to go to the Mets game, but stayed home for the dinner instead. 

[DoctorAtomic]

After the first season, observations -

1. I think Edith being 'dim' is a put on to deal with Archie. He's always barking about something. It's her way of putting him in his place without him knowing. 
2. The show is filmed a lot like a play. It's only been two rooms, but there's a lot of getting up and walking around. The phone is placed strategically that they have to get up and walk over to it. There aren't really any camera cuts. Each scene is just filmed straight on. 

[Egg McMuffin]

I believe it was the first sitcom to be videotaped, and that medium is so important to the immediacy of this show. It adds to the play-like atmosphere. I can’t imagine a filmed version of All in the Family any more than I can imagine a videotaped version of Cheers (Cheers actually did tape a couple of scenes during season 1 when NBC/Paramount was looking for ways to cut costs, but they looked terrible and wisely stuck with film).

[DoctorAtomic]

On 1/1/2022 at 1:17 PM, Egg McMuffin said:

I believe it was the first sitcom to be videotaped, and that medium is so important to the immediacy of this show.

The only contemporary show is Mary Tyler Moore, and it's shot way different. 

This week I watched the first appearance by Maude. I know the character, and everyone knows Bea Arthur. I never saw 'Maude' on tv before. I think they wrote the show around Maude and Archie just going at it in the next to last scene. Archie just laid into Maude about FDR, but the whole point of the scene was that Maude was sitting in Archie's chair, and he got Maude going - 'We didn't think FDR was going to hang around as long as the pope' - and got his seat back.