S08.E07: The Next Time I Hurt Somebody, It Could Be You

[formerlyfreedom]

Faced with the fallout from his interaction with Cade, Stefan is determined to have one thing go right – Christmas Eve with Caroline. However, when Damon and Sybil crash their Christmas Eve dinner, which had been joined by Alaric, Matt and Peter, things quickly take a dark and twisted turn. Meanwhile, in a series of flashbacks to Stefan’s past, Cade’s attempt to entice him with his mysterious agenda leaves Stefan faced with an unimaginable decision.

 

[gazebo]

Can someone, anyone explain what the fuck I saw?  Damon continues to confuse me.  One moment he's all sweet on the  siren and next minute he sees the old Elena necklace and decides to take the siren's. ............you know what.  I don't understand this Show anymore. 

[Cattitude]

I haven't had the energy to post the last couple of episodes but OMG. THAT was horrible. Are the writers pissed about the show ending so they are giving the fans a big FU? Damon is a hot mess. I mean yes dark Damon is fun but only IF it is with purpose. This Damon is just harsh with no purpose. Killing Tyler was one thing b/c at least Tyler was often a douche but what he did to poor sweet Mattie Blue Eyes was too harsh to watch. And I haven't been a Stefan fan but REALLY show, being in Elena's life CAUSED her to be evil and that was second only to massacring a whole village of people including kids on Christmas. Don't they get only diehard fans are watching at this point. Why ruin our beloved characters like this?

what is up with the extreme oil slick on Matt and Enzo's hair? Not a fan.

Only good thing I could say was Caroline and Ric looked damn good and I'd rather THEY be a couple than her and Stefan.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Cattitude

[MostlyC]

What is it with the 7th season of so many series?  They go all bleak and dark, as if they want people to stop watching.  What happened to the high body count but snarky and romantic angst?

I'm sad that the siren is sticking around through the winter break.  I'm so done with her.  Maybe it's a good thing that this show is ending.

[HunterHunted]

33 minutes ago, gazebo said:

Can someone, anyone explain what the fuck I saw?  Damon continues to confuse me.  One moment he's all sweet on the  siren and next minute he sees the old Elena necklace and decides to take the siren's. ............you know what.  I don't understand this Show anymore. 

I honestly could not tell you what the fuck is going on. I watched watched it and almost none of the episode made any damn sense. And I literally don't understand Arcadius' endgame.

The thing that I thought had the most pathos was Matt's dad admitting that he abandoned his wife and children because he knew he'd end up depressed and stuck in Mystic Falls. There must have been a better way to arrive at this revelation without having Damon randomly threaten to murder someone at Christmas dinner.

The tuning fork caused Bonnie pain. Does that mean she's getting her powers back?

Edited December 10, 2016 by HunterHunted

[immortalfrieza]

1 hour ago, MostlyC said:

What is it with the 7th season of so many series?  They go all bleak and dark, as if they want people to stop watching.  What happened to the high body count but snarky and romantic angst?

The 7th season is the breaking point for most shows. It's either the point where the network is going to cancel the show if they haven't already or the point where it's become clear they aren't going to anytime soon and thus in either case everybody involved in making it stops giving a shit. Only the truly GOOD shows last this long and still have people that care enough to keep up the momentum.

We've got psychics now, but OOPS! turns out witches were always psychics... Yeah, the show has always played fast and loose with it's own mythology but they clearly aren't even pretending that they aren't just making any old crap up without even pretending to be consistent at this point.

Edited December 10, 2016 by immortalfrieza

[roctavia]

Umm... didn't the show retcon itself a  couple of seasons ago to make it known that Damon met Elena first??? If Stefan hadn't met her at school (after he saved her life at the bridge) why would she have gone on to live some super happy non-evil related life when Damon was also in town and waiting on the vampires in the crypt whatever....   That's a bit of a stretch there,  Cade ol' pal...

I wish they would just tell us what this stupid thing is that Matt's dad had that Sybil is after... like get it over with already...

And really? 1 year of ripper Stefan is going to satisfy cade forever?? nothing makes sense in this storyline...

[GaT]

I am so sick of these people. I hate SYbil, I hate Celine, I hate Damon, I hate Stefan, I hate Caroline, & I am no longer interested in any of the other people. They have completely ruined this show with the most stupid plot.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Inside the episode:

[ElectricBoogaloo]

 I hate that this is the last season and I feel like they're squandering it on boring and pointless storylines and characters. Sybil and Seline are annoying, not scary. Even Damon, who used to be menacing and evil is now just a boring smarmy jerk who isn't funny or interesting.

No one made any sense in this episode. Seline, who tricked Sybil into eating people she had killed without remorse, is now making a list of all the people she killed and crying about how she wants to save the twins, the same twins that she wanted to offer to Cade last week.

Cade, who wanted Stefan and Damon to be his death minions FOREVER, is now willing to let Stefan go after a year of hardcore killing, despite the fact that he had Seline and Sybil killing people for him for centuries.

When Cade took Stefan to Monterey, first Stefan said he only remembered picking grapes or pomegranates there. He had no memory of killing the people at the camp. When Cade told him that he murdered them on Christmas, Stefan said, "I know what damage I did to these people. I've been living with that guilt for a hundred years. But not on Christmas. I wouldn't do that." What the hell? He JUST said he didn't remember massacring the camp but now he's saying that he has felt guilty about killing those very people. Next he says, "I don't remember doing this."

Damon likes Sybil enough to vamp speed her out of the mansion away from the tuning fork, but then seeing Elena's necklace is enough to make him rip her heart out (I was shocked that Sybil didn't reprimand him for not grabbing the tuning fork on his way out). And are we supposed to believe that he just regifted Caroline's Christmas present without even opening it himself? That makes no fucking sense at all.

I wish we had been able to see what was in the box that Caroline gave to Sybil. I have no doubt that Caroline is the kind of person who keeps extra gifts in the closet just in case, but I really want to know what she deemed suitable for Sybil.

During the previously segment, I laughed when reminded that one of Sybil's selling points to Cade about why Damon and Stefan would be great replacements for this job was that they're immortal vampires. Does it matter if the lackeys bringing Cade evil people are vampires or something else? And hello, part of Cade's deal with his "employees" is granting them immortality, so it doesn't matter if Damon and Stefan are already immortal.

Cade said that if only Stefan hadn't gone down the hallway and bumped into Elena that day, things might be different. But the entire reason that Stefan enrolled in high school was because he saved Elena from the car accident that killed her parents and he was fascinated by Katherine's doppelganger. Even if he hadn't walked into her in the hallway on the first day of school, it would have been a matter of time before they met. He had already been watching her for four months (since her parents died) and he decided to step up his stalker game by enrolling at her high school so he could meet her and be around her.

I was so excited to be rid of Sybil when I saw that Damon ripped her heart out! Then I remembered that last week she said part of her new deal with Cade was that she got to retain her immortality. DAMN IT.

Love how the writers threw in that magic/psychic retcon by having Bonnie say that her Grams told her that. Gawd. Half the time the writers come up with these long convoluted nonsensical mythologies and other times they're like eh, let's just say that someone else already knew that. Done!

On the plus side, Caroline looked great in this episode. Her hair and her dress looked awesome! And even though she was being fake with Sybil, it was still nice to see her smile after all the angsty crap this season.

Edited December 10, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Aeryn13]

Yeah, that are making up plot holes faster than they can drive trucks through at this point. Jeez.

And nice to have confirmation in dialogue that what keeps guys good is basically a woman. If only Elena were still around, Damon wouldn`t be trapped in this horrible stupid storyline. It`s fucking true.

Seline is suddenly super-good and crying tears of remorse. Because apparently a look into Ripper!Stefan`s mind of all people turned her around. Are you kidding me? Couple episodes ago she coldly killed Georgie and just last week wanted to sell toddlers to the devil.

Not to mention again with the simplistic retconning of Stefan into a saint. Oh, look, he never had a dark side. The cruelty as a Ripper just came to him out of thin air after "he was forced to become a monster to survive". Revisionist history at its finest. People aren`t little saints or little devils by birth. Come on. I hated that stuff during the first two Seasons and was so happy when they gave the character a more well-rounded portrayal later on. Now that shit is back? Urgh.

Then again, blaming Stefan for Elena`s life is also retconny as hell. Sure, he made her the doppelganger and thus the person in Katherine and Klaus` crosshairs. Wait, no, he did not. Katherine had Isobel find her, Salvatore brothers around or not.

I can`t even pretend to understand Damon`s memories anymore. The rules keep changing episode to episode. I was glad to see him rip Sibyl`s heart out though.

This episode ruined one of my favourite things: the dinner parties from hell. They used to be such fun, this one was a drag. And I could not care less about Matt`s deadbeat dad and the Donovan family drama.

Caroline gulping when Sybil ripped the meat apart was about the only funny moment.   

[kelaney]

My 13 year old who doesn't watch the show was in the room while I watched this episode.  She kept asking me to explain what was going on.  I was actually embarrassed as the words kept coming out of my mouth because I knew how ridiculous the plot was.  My husband then said , "This is your favorite show?  I thought it was scary."  I had to say that it wasn't my favorite show any more and it hadn't been scary since the first season or so.  I said that I was just really loyal and determined to see it through.  The positive thing was that everyone on the show was beautiful and you got to spend an hour looking at gorgeous people whether the plot made sense or not.

Several things:

- I assumed Damon swooped whichever siren it was out of the mansion because he didn't want her to read his thoughts about that gadget thing he found in Matt's dad's garage.  We haven't heard anything else about that have we?

- All we've ever heard about Stefan's ripper days is that he and others have referred to him as the Ripper of Monterrey and now that they show it to us, it's only a handful of people and he doesn't even remember it!  I expected the carnage to look like the outdoor hospital scene in Gone With the Wind.  I know they dont have that budget, but still.  And how can he not remember something that someone brings up EVERY season!!

- Cade basically said it was Stefan's fault that Elena got pulled into all this supernatural crap.  But she was a "doppelgänger", so she was going to be hunted by Klaus whether Stefan was there or not.

- Damon.  Have they forgotten that they were searching for Damon just a few months ago to save him?  The person Damon is right now is directly related to him going in that vault last year. He volunteered to take the bullet on that one and this is where he landed.  His humanity is off because that was the only way he could deal with stuff.  (Yes, Enzo fought it, but that was truthfully a writing decision rather than a character decision in my opinion.  Whatever.) Damon has always been a dick.  Humanity on or off.  But the gang, especially Alaric, murdered him without any regret or sadness or wishing they could save him.  Just good riddance.  Drives me crazy.  Don't they all remember when they were not themselves and doing bad things?  Guess not.  They just killed him and then went on to dinner.  What should we wear to the party?  Don't they think about the Damon that is there with humanity turned on?  Or maybe they secretly hated that guy, too.  Caroline at least has always been honest about hating him (and for good reason).  Something tells me that if someone killed humanity-off-Stefan everyone would be really sad because it wasn't his fault and he needed to be saved, not killed.  At least this part of the writing is consistant.

- Don't Alaric and Caroline realize that the twins are themselves supernatural and will attract other supernatural issues whether Caroline is there or not.  Super Nanny wasn't there because of Caroline.  Alaric has just as much connection to the gang.  Having Caroline around provides an element of protection.  I don't understand separating her from her kids except for "drama".  On the positive side, the twins' dresses were super cute.  I assume that was Caroline's doing.  I think Dad Alaric is boring and a dick.

Sorry for my negativity.  It's just that I feel like I'm seeing shadows of my favorite characters.  I do really like Enzo and Bonnie and their relationship, though.  I didn't like him until he was with Bonnie.  I love that he's a mature man and not young and that he values her so much.  No offense Jeremy.  I can't wait until the Originals come on.  They still feel like themselves.

[TigerLynx]

Another trip down memory lane.  Damon is a murderer and a jerk.  Stefan is a murderer with yet another lame pathetic excuse for why it's not his fault.  Same old same old just like the first million times.

Caroline has reached a new level of stupid.  She should be leaving with Rick and her children.  Instead she is going to wait around for Stefan, for a year, until they figure a way out of this deal?  Have all of these idiots forgotten that all the plans, deals, schemes, and plans, deals, schemes, to get them out of the original plans, deals, schemes are what got them to this point in the first place?  Seriously?

If Elena were here, Damon wouldn't be doing this?  1) Damon is under mind control, 2) Damon snapped Jeremy's neck right in front of Elena when she was begging him not to, and 3) as I have said before, these people are to stupid to live.

Enzo and Bonnie should go to Paris and never return.  They might get a few years of happiness that way.

ETA:  I keep hoping that smart Damon will make an appearance, and that everything he has been doing is a distraction because whatever that thing Matt's dad has will get rid of Cade.

Edited December 10, 2016 by TigerLynx

[ByTor]

4 hours ago, kelaney said:

- All we've ever heard about Stefan's ripper days is that he and others have referred to him as the Ripper of Monterrey and now that they show it to us, it's only a handful of people and he doesn't even remember it!  I expected the carnage to look like the outdoor hospital scene in Gone With the Wind.  I know they dont have that budget, but still.  And how can he not remember something that someone brings up EVERY season!!

This is one of the only things that did make sense to me.  Stefan wasn't a ripper for only a day, it was one day that was wiped from his memory. 

I rolled my eyes hard when Cade wanted Stefan to go ripper....all I could hear was the annoying Klaus saying "RIPPUH!!!" over & over again during whatever the hell season that was (3?).

[GaT]

4 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

Caroline has reached a new level of stupid.  She should be leaving with Rick and her children.  Instead she is going to wait around for Stefan, for a year, until they figure a way out of this deal? 

I was wondering about this, are they going to time jump a year & have Stefan & Damon come back as good guys?

[prospazzinator]

If they time jump, I'd bet it's to show that Stefan can't let go of being the Ripper after all. I'm hoping they don't do that. 

[Terrafamilia]

Have the police gotten around to questioning Matt's dad about the gruesome death of his employee at their place of business? It must say something about either me or the show that this is what I took away from this episode.

[bobbyjoe]

Quote

I was wondering about this, are they going to time jump a year & have Stefan & Damon come back as good guys?

I hope there's a time jump at the beginning of the next episode and someone immediately says: "hey, you remember how there were those two sirens and that guy named Cade and how we thought they were going to be this big threat but then they just suddenly all died?  And remember how Stefan and Damon had flipped their humanity switches but before anything happened there (like it has 8,000 times in the past), their humanity switches just inexplicably got switched back on again somehow and now none of us really care so let's never speak of any of this ever, ever again?"

Yeah, that's what I'd really like to see.*

* [I made almost precisely this same joke back around the mid-point of the whole Heretics storyline, which just goes to show how long the writing on VD has been absolutely godawfully terrible.]

Edited December 10, 2016 by bobbyjoe

[Snow Fairy]

I feel sorry for Caroline. I've always liked her, and now she's loosing Stefand and the twins. Even Bonnie isn't there for her so much, Enzo stuff and all

Anyway, the plot has holes, the sirens and Cade thing is boring as hell, Matt family drama I don't even know what that is. Can't wait for the show to end, but can't stop watching now 

If it wasn't for Selene meeting Stefan and becoming better, I would have thought that Sybil told the story wrong - Sybil was the first sister, and Selene was tricked into everything

[Aeryn13]

Quote

I rolled my eyes hard when Cade wanted Stefan to go ripper....all I could hear was the annoying Klaus saying "RIPPUH!!!" over & over again during whatever the hell season that was (3?).

The Cade/Stefan convo was almost a carbon copy of Klaus/Stefan from the Season 2 Finale. Basically fanboying the "Ripper of Monterey" and "that`s the talent I can use". Back then the leverage was the cure for Damon, now it is the twin`s life. Or souls.

Only with Klaus, I could amuse myself when it was later on discovered that he almost certainly had a drawing of Stefan and a pony somewhere hidden under his pillow. Cade`s entire deal just makes no sense. When he talks about good people being made evil, is he referring to himself or his friends back in ancient times who burned him alive? I`m guessing there is a purpose in wanting to consume those "potent" souls.

And if that`s what he wants, why didn`t he make his sirens get him such souls? Come on, how is any version of Stefan, ripper or not, a great seducer and corrupter of good souls? Was Elena supposed to be his one shining example? Also, confirmation that she is now hellbound. Maybe someone should tell swiss-cheese-memory-Damon. If he can be convinced they`ll be together for eternity after all, he will stop doing ridiculous and crazy shit to avoid hell already.  

[miss-vanilla]

Oh this show! The bar for a good episode it set so low these days, but even a mid season finale episode  could barely slither over the the top of it without scraping a few buttocks.

It had a few snarky, funny lines here and there and one stand out scene (Damon heart ripping Sybil) but overall it was yet another poor effort.

The story just devolves week after week making less and less sense as we get deeper into the season. Such a damn shame because like most of you here, I was really rooting for this season to be a blast. It's not, it's depressing as hell (haha!)

Stefans' total lack of self awareness never fails. This horrible narrative of Stefan with purest of heart and victim status is making yet another return juxtaposed with scenes of dead children and lists of remorse??? I'm so over this man pain stuff with him, and I was so glad when Cade basically said the same thing. The fact that he is willingly going "ripper" again is just blah and not in the least heroic.

9 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I can`t even pretend to understand Damon`s memories anymore. The rules keep changing episode to episode. I was glad to see him rip Sibyl`s heart out though.

I think i'm starting to understand the hold Sybil had/has over Damon, I touched on it last week, I think she is in his subconscious and he is unaware, just like Enzo was last week when he couldn't hear or see her in his mind. Sybil changed all his memories of Elena and Bonnie and replaced them with herself, that is why he is innately drawn to her. He saved her again in this episode and she remarked that it was "instinct" . The necklace jogged something in Damons' brain, he doesn't know what or why visions of Elena were in his mind (he doesn't know her), but something inside of him knows his brain has been fried and he recognises that this girl is important to him, he feels it rather than 'knows' it.  He is running on instinct now.  I could be wrong, and it could also turn out be the magical necklace, after all that necklace has it's own magic.

 

9 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

This episode ruined one of my favourite things: the dinner parties from hell. They used to be such fun, this one was a drag. And I could not care less about Matt`s deadbeat dad and the Donovan family drama.

THIS!

 

7 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

ETA:  I keep hoping that smart Damon will make an appearance, and that everything he has been doing is a distraction because whatever that thing Matt's dad has will get rid of Cade.

Well he still has it as far we know, i'm still hoping it's a bit of a chekhov's gun/cannonball, and Sybil obviously doesn't know that Damon has it. 

The rest was a bit of a snooze tbh. The flashbacks seemed to go for an eternity yet we didn't get to any of Damons' time with Cade. Yet again we are still in the dark with regards to what exactly is going on with him. The lack of POV from Damon is just frustrating and there better be a good payoff for all this manufactured ambiguity. Don't get me wrong suspense and drama is good, but sometimes it's good to see characters motivations and plan so we can actually root for said character to succeed.

Not happy with Alaric just letting Seline ride off into the sunset after what she did, especially given that chilling phone-call last episode.  He staked his BFF without remorse and buried him in an unmarked grave, then let the real culprit just walk away. WTF?

[miss-vanilla]

10 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

The Cade/Stefan convo was almost a carbon copy of Klaus/Stefan from the Season 2 Finale. Basically fanboying the "Ripper of Monterey" and "that`s the talent I can use". Back then the leverage was the cure for Damon, now it is the twin`s life. Or souls.

Yes it was, and this time I did not buy it like I did back then. In one breath he is so awesome a killer that he is practically headhunted by the supernatural elite (Klaus, Silas, Cade), then in next he is pardoned and whitewashed by others (Seline, Rayna). Stefan is being leveraged again but he has chosen to turn off his humanity, that was his own choice and not one that was forced upon him. 

 

17 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

And if that`s what he wants, why didn`t he make his sirens get him such souls? Come on, how is any version of Stefan, ripper or not, a great seducer and corrupter of good souls? Was Elena supposed to be his one shining example?

They have to keep her in the narrative somehow, lol.  I don't know, I guess they are going for the notion that the darkness in Elena was always present but meeting Stefan unleashed that part of her. I've always argued that Damon did not change Elena, that she was always capable of darkness and selfishness and those traits were evident during the Stelena years. I guess I just got that confirmation in canon so i'm good with that. I don't agree that Stefan coming into her life ruined it though, like others have mentioned, it was her destiny to become a part of the supernatural world due to her status as the doppelganger. 

[TigerLynx]

I don't understand any of the rules about how people end up going to Cade's hell.  Supposedly one bad act is all that's required, remorse does not matter, and there is no redemption EXCEPT Selene said something to Bonnie and Enzo about that is what she was trying for?  Also, with those kind of rules everyone is going to end up with Cade.

[Artsda]

This show is a mess. I can't wait for Originals to return.

Caroline gave up being a full time mother to her kids for Stefan. Who will always pick Damon first and who is going ripper? She should have never chosen him over Alaric and her kids.

[tricknasty]

Cade to Stefan: "I decided you were mine. Right here. Monterrey. Christmas 1917."

Me: So why didn't you claim his soul the many times he died and went to the other side instead of Hell? What was the point of the other side when you could have directed them ALL to Hell?

These writers aren't even trying anymore. I feel fucking insulted. But I will continue to watch til the bitter end.

Enzo has been sporting that oil slick longer than Matt.  I thought Seline was the first sister and Sybil was the one who was tricked

Edited December 11, 2016 by tricknasty
Too much wine

[immortalfrieza]

2 hours ago, miss-vanilla said:

It had a few snarky, funny lines here and there and one stand out scene but overall it was yet another poor effort.

I laughed when I saw these words, it could be put as a one sentence review of every episode of this entire show and be completely accurate, especially the last few seasons. The Vampire Diaries is just a few good moments here and there surrounded by terrible writing after terrible writing and this episode is no exception. It's those few good moments that keep us watching up until now and what will keep us watching until the end, not because the show is actually GOOD.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

One of the many things I loathe about this most recent Stefan retcon is that he was soooooooo anguished about killing all of those people and being a Ripper was soooooooo hard for him, yet this guilt-racked Stefan never thought hey, I could stop feeling like shit about myself AND not keep slaughtering people by just taking off my ring and letting the sun come up? Nope, the better option is to keep killing bunches of people and then being emo about it.

Caroline is the one who I feel the most sorry for right now. Her boyfriend just left for a one year murder spree, Alaric just took her kids to parts unknown, and her best friend just left for a long term Parisian vacation. Now she's all alone in Mystic Falls just waiting for her boyfriend, her best friend, and her kids to come back one day.

7 hours ago, ByTor said:

I rolled my eyes hard when Cade wanted Stefan to go ripper....all I could hear was the annoying Klaus saying "RIPPUH!!!" over & over again during whatever the hell season that was (3?).

Ha, as annoying as it was to hear Klaus yell "RIPPAH" constantly, your post made me laugh, so there's that.

11 hours ago, kelaney said:

 - All we've ever heard about Stefan's ripper days is that he and others have referred to him as the Ripper of Monterrey and now that they show it to us, it's only a handful of people and he doesn't even remember it!  I expected the carnage to look like the outdoor hospital scene in Gone With the Wind.  I know they dont have that budget, but still.  And how can he not remember something that someone brings up EVERY season!!

I felt kind of terrible thinking the same thing. I saw some bodies lying around and I thought so...that's it? I was expecting piles of corpses, not maybe a dozen people and a few tents. I don't want to sound like I'm devaluing human life or anything, but I was like seriously? He got this nickname for a handful of people?

6 minutes ago, immortalfrieza said:

I laughed when I saw these words, it could be put as a one sentence review of every episode of this entire show and be completely accurate, especially the last few seasons. The Vampire Diaries is just a few good moments here and there surrounded by terrible writing after terrible writing and this episode is no exception. It's those few good moments that keep us watching up until now and what will keep us watching until the end, not because the show is actually GOOD.

You guys, one of my friends JUST started watching S1 of TVD this weekend. She knows that I used to love this show so she told me earlier today that she was partway through S1. I had to bite my tongue to keep from telling her to enjoy the show while it's still good in the early seasons because it turns to shit later. I was trying to think back how long this show has sucked. I know it's too easy to point to Nina Dobrev leaving, but man this show sucked last season with all the garbage with the heretics and now this season we're stuck with Sybil, Seline, and Cade. My friend has some random knowledge of the show just because of the internet so she said, "Doesn't Elena leave the show at the end of S6? Do I need to keep watching it after that?" I wanted to tell her no, just tell yourself the show ended after the S6 finale.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

My friend has some random knowledge of the show just because of the internet so she said, "Doesn't Elena leave the show at the end of S6? Do I need to keep watching it after that?" I wanted to tell her no, just tell yourself the show ended after the S6 finale.

I honestly wish soemone would travel back through time and tell ME that. Where is Barry Allen changing the past when you need him. Grumble.

[ByTor]

18 hours ago, Snow Fairy said:

Can't wait for the show to end, but can't stop watching now

I think I said pretty much that exact thing while watching this episode.

14 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I felt kind of terrible thinking the same thing. I saw some bodies lying around and I thought so...that's it? I was expecting piles of corpses, not maybe a dozen people and a few tents. I don't want to sound like I'm devaluing human life or anything, but I was like seriously? He got this nickname for a handful of people?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm assuming his reign of terror in Monterrey went on for quite a while, it's just that of the many days he was there, this was one that was wiped from his memory.

[Aeryn13]

He said he was working there, so I assume he arrived as Stefan with his humanity switch on and lived among the migrant workers until one day he snapped. Guess something made him turn off ye olde switch. And of course, the workers only had tents and Ripper!Stefan had a cozy little cabin. Man, it was unfair even before he slaughtered them.

[miss-vanilla]

2 hours ago, ByTor said:

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm assuming his reign of terror in Monterrey went on for quite a while, it's just that of the many days he was there, this was one that was wiped from his memory.

That is what I understood too. He admitted to Cade that he had guilt for 100 years over what he did to the people of Monterey in 1917, this particular massacre happened on Christmas. He was adamant that he was not the perpetrator by denouncing that he would not commit mass slaughter on Christmas because you know, that just isn't something Stefan would do, because apparently mass slaughter is more abhorrent at Christmas, WTF!

Another WTF moment was when he was talking to Cade and was lamenting the fact that because Sybil erased his memories of this particular murder spree, he believed he was worthy of redemption and a life. The writing choices and strange logic was jarring, but actually quite typical of Stefans' weird moral compass.

Edited December 11, 2016 by miss-vanilla

[MostlyC]

I think many of us are completists....we just can't quit 'til it's over.

Sigh

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I was a completist with Buffy, despite the fact that I hated the Potentials of S7 (and wanted Kennedy to DIE). I'm such a completist that I even bought S7 on DVD as soon as it was available. As I put it on the shelf next to S1-S6, I said, "Okay, Whedon, you can make me buy the last season, but you can't make me watch it again!"

I have the same kind of commitment to S8 of TVD. I'm here 'til the bitter end. And in theory I'm interested to see how they bring Nina back for the finale. Will they finally figure out a loophole so that Bonnie and Elena can both be alive? Will they kill Bonnie violently? Will they time jump 60 years into the future so we can see Bonnie die peacefully? Or will Nina's final appearance just be some sort of mind visit while she's still in her coffin?

[GraceAnne]

This show....sigh... it's become boring, repetitive, dumb, confusing, etc era....

As I watched I just kept thinking what is the point?  With this being the last season and the horrible ratings, you would think they should either be doing a victory lap for your hardcore fans OR trying to drum up fans to watch The Originals. I must say epic fail on both of those fronts. 

[Oracle42]

On 12/10/2016 at 9:10 AM, Aeryn13 said:

Not to mention again with the simplistic retconning of Stefan into a saint. Oh, look, he never had a dark side. The cruelty as a Ripper just came to him out of thin air after "he was forced to become a monster to survive". Revisionist history at its finest. People aren`t little saints or little devils by birth. Come on. I hated that stuff during the first two Seasons and was so happy when they gave the character a more well-rounded portrayal later on. Now that shit is back? Urgh.

It felt less like an attempt to make Stefan more well-rounded and much more like an attempt to put him on equal footing with Damon. It annoyed me then and the fact that they're still messing around trying to come up with a motivation just makes it worse

[Aeryn13]

Quote

It felt less like an attempt to make Stefan more well-rounded and much more like an attempt to put him on equal footing with Damon. It annoyed me then and the fact that they're still messing around trying to come up with a motivation just makes it worse

For me it was kinda like Angel on Buffy, we "met" him as a nice guy and then later learned he had a serious dark side as well. The show introduced Stefan in an "on" phase where he was feeding on bunnies and being all tortured and guilt-ridden and then learned what drives that guilt. And at first even that was all "the other guy" aka the Ripper. Only later Stefan seemed to be able to realize that it is all him, good and bad and neither side has to define his whole being.

In this episode they had Seline explain how there was nothing evil there, just pain and anguish. Like Stefan is a saint who just happens to occasionally kill people. Give me a break. And the ultra-clumsy 180 on Seline after seeing that didn`t help. She didn`t appear regretful for a moment before this episode, now she is crying in her wheaties.

On the other side of the simplistic equation there was Cade pontificating how good people who can be corrupted to evil are evil after all. By that logic just about everyone in the history of ever is evil at their core. I thought the show had finally moved to a point happily in the middle but the writing was pretty heavy-handed here that we should believe Seline wholeheartedly.   

[miss-vanilla]

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

For me it was kinda like Angel on Buffy, we "met" him as a nice guy and then later learned he had a serious dark side as well. The show introduced Stefan in an "on" phase where he was feeding on bunnies and being all tortured and guilt-ridden and then learned what drives that guilt. And at first even that was all "the other guy" aka the Ripper. Only later Stefan seemed to be able to realize that it is all him, good and bad and neither side has to define his whole being.

I agree with this assessment. At first the writing was portraying the ripper part as something that happened to Stefan rather than it actually being a part of Stefan and I never liked that whitewashing of the character. I much preferred it when the story evolved and Stefan gradually came to accept the ripper within himself and learned to control that side of his personality to the point he could actually drink human blood and come face to face with it without losing his cool. He had much more self awareness and humility with that way of thinking but since then the narrative has started regress back to the beginning and it started when they informed us and Stefan that his ripperness was genetic..so we are now back at square one where the ripper is something that happened to him, that he is fundamentally innocent and that he had no agency within that narrative.

Seline is definitely meant to be the voice we listen too because she is the character offered a redemptive arc, she was good in the end and Cade is the bad guy.

[miss-vanilla]

It started in Season 3 after his Ripper stint- He told Klaus that he come to accept the Ripper as part of himself therefore Klaus could no longer use that to control him. I got the impression he was drinking blood bags for a while too, he stocked his fridge in his new house at the start of Season 6.

I dunno, I guess overall Stefan seems to be able to control his bloodlust far better than he could back in S1.

[phoenix780]

I just marathoned the season and boy am I glad to read this thread. 

Wasn't Stefan's mother a ripper too, like it's some vampire genetic thing not just anguish or whatever? 

I fully hate Bonnie and Enzo. 

And I'm totally lost with Cade. If there's hell (and heaven, apparently) what was the other side? Did Cade just not feed on supernatural souls, and he was OK with that (or too weak to take it down)? And now that it's gone he wants more...although he seems to target humans so I guess that's irrelevant...but the threat he holds over them is damnation... 

Cade must not rule the Hell, just one of many I guess. Which makes him no scarier than the ones they beat before they had an armory. 

If witches are psychic and the twins have a psychic bond, they can just drain Cade, right? Or what's her name...Valerie is alive, right? 

I feel like they could piece this all together between the other side, the stone from last season that stored souls. But no. It is very Buffy season 7 where they just seemed to give up, but at least that seemed to collapse to more explicitly push a girl power message. This is just...lazy.

I don't mean to be a picky fan whining online, but I can't get past sloppy and not entertaining and stupid characters (sending the kids away to protect them, for example). They need to give me something so I remember this show fondly. They can still fix it, they used to burn through plot like wildfire. Two episodes could get it back on track. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

ITA - I remember when they used to tear through so much plot that if a friend missed two episodes, I couldn't sum up what happened in a few sentences. Now I can summarize an entire season in a few sentences ("Stefan's mom showed up. She sucks both literally and figuratively. Her boyfriend Julian is even worse. They're both dead now though so you really didn't miss anything."). I also agree that the writers seem like they just don't care anymore. Nothing makes sense and it's not even interesting. I wanted the final season to remind us of how fun and engaging this show was in the first few seasons. Instead we're getting Cade and sirens and a different hell dimension and plot holes you could fly a 747 through.