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S05.E17: Sweating It Out

Primetimer

By Primetimer
in Beverly Hills, 90210

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calamityjean

calamityjean

YOU GUYS! I'm the birthday girl in this podcast! Thank you for the birthday wishes. Your podcast (and my bestie Sara/long-distance dedicationer, at whom I bray regularly about her giant pants and other STUFF) makes my daily life much, much better. Special kudos to whomever named this particular episode "Nice Hole." You had me at the title. Love, Jean

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StatMom

StatMom

4 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

Oh man, Kelly and the cult, mmmemmmorieees!

For me, too! My 90210-watching pals and I used "extern" and "negator" for many moons after this whole plotline got started. Such awesome cult-y words they made up (I'm assuming they made them up...). 

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StatMom

StatMom

(edited)

The excess of lip-liner! Wow, that was so on trend in the 90's.

Quote

What's going on with Val's hair, it looks completely different from the last episode.

Did she have bangs before? I don't think so.

Edited by StatMom
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Klaw

Klaw

You're all a bunch of NEGATORS!!!

God, I love this storyline so much. I was a little kid when Jim Jones went down and I remember being totally freaked out by cults and reading the news and magazines (Time, anyone?) about it - my parents were pre-boomers so they weren't so big on the helicoptering thing, I can't believe the stuff we watched/read/listened to, you whippersnappers have no idea. Ok I digress. But  I do remember being all, "when I grow up, I'm NEVER going to join a cult."

To watch Kelly get sucked in at the same time Val is all "Are you F'ing kidding me?" And I love that Val aced the final without showing up or using St. Kelly's notes. HA HA HA Suck it CULT!KELLY!

So agree with Tara. Don't friggin' tell a roomful of people how you basically threw an innocent girl in front of you to save face (literally) KELLY.  Remember S1 & 2 Kelly? Sigh.

Oh and $8 Million? That's nothing to sneeze at, but it's not like ALOT of money, certainly not by Beverly Hills standards, even in the 90s. Why did the writers always have to deflate costs (like with the ridiculous rent at a beachfront 3BR apartment)? I don't get it...Anyone have any clue as to why it was $8 mill as opposed to $80 mill or $100 mill? Which would have made his breakdown seem more realistic. SMH.

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WhosThatGirl

WhosThatGirl

It always seemed like the cult arc was always rerunning on soapnet because as I've said many times I was too young to really watch BH so I watched reruns and I swear the cult arc was always on.

I love the podcasts so much though and it's reminding me how awesome Val was/is. I feel like
Val was all of us when the cult group was speaking.

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MissEwa

MissEwa

4 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I love the podcasts so much though and it's reminding me how awesome Val was/is. I feel like
Val was all of us when the cult group was speaking.

Agreed. I hated Val when I watched these episodes as a teen because she was mean to The Gang and I though The Gang were so great, but now I'm totally Team Val. She's eye-rolling on behalf of all of us. 

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MerBearStare

MerBearStare

Oh Val... I love how her midwest/rust belt pragmatism and bullshit detector had no time for Finley's non-sense. 

So I assume all negators are externs, but are all externs negators?

I feel like cults were a very mid-90's topic. Like I remember watching an MTV special about three different cults; one of which was definitely Scientology. (I tried googling it, but all I got were listicles about the best 1990's MTV cult hit shows.)

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TeeVee329

TeeVee329

Speaking of Val, interestingly, the Wikipedia description of this episode mentions Val also helping Ray with his stage fright and that, I guess, being the early seeds of them sleeping together.  Was that all cut from the ep due to music rights?

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Klaw

Klaw

Quote

I feel like cults were a very mid-90's topic.

Me too. I lived in LA in the 90s and I definitely recall me and my GenX friends talking about Scientology, even then, being "like" a creepy cult and staying far away...we had no idea...

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txhorns79

txhorns79

(edited)
Quote

To watch Kelly get sucked in at the same time Val is all "Are you F'ing kidding me?" And I love that Val aced the final without showing up or using St. Kelly's notes. HA HA HA Suck it CULT!KELLY!

I just love that Val rolls her eyes at the whole thing right off the bat, while Saint Kelly is immediately sucked into the morass.  I'll also admit that I have occasionally used the term "negator," with people, if only to get a reaction from them.   And yes, I realize that could possibly make me as awful as Brandon. 

Edited by txhorns79
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ZeroDiscipline

ZeroDiscipline

Speaking of Val, interestingly, the Wikipedia description of this episode mentions Val also helping Ray with his stage fright and that, I guess, being the early seeds of them sleeping together.  Was that all cut from the ep due to music rights?

Aha! I sort of remember this. If I had to speculate, I would guess that Val helped him by taking the opposite Donna approach, which, is what all of us were thinking, and would consist of saying "Whatever. Don't play if you don't want to. I'm sure your dumb broke ass will get another opportunity someday, somewhere else. Or will it? But if you don't want this gig at the L.A. club handed to you, then don't be a musician because this is the kind of stuff you will have to do on the regular." And then sashaying off to start trouble somewhere else.

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ZeroDiscipline

ZeroDiscipline

  Quote

To watch Kelly get sucked in at the same time Val is all "Are you F'ing kidding me?" And I love that Val aced the final without showing up or using St. Kelly's notes. HA HA HA Suck it CULT!KELLY!

I just love that Val rolls her eyes at the whole thing right off the bat, while Saint Kelly is immediately sucked into the morass.  I'll also admit that I have occasionally used the term "negator," with people, if only to get a reaction from them.   And yes, I realize that could possibly make me as awful as Brandon. 

In the olden days, it would be Kelly rolling her eyes at Brenda for entertaining the idea of this cult nonsense. Valerie basically became the much cooler version of good-times Kelly.

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TeeVee329

TeeVee329

4 minutes ago, ZeroDiscipline said:

Aha! I sort of remember this. If I had to speculate, I would guess that Val helped him by taking the opposite Donna approach

And that makes Steve's remarks to Donna about sleeping with Ray to calm his stage fright nerves make a little more foreshadow-y sense.

3 minutes ago, ZeroDiscipline said:

In the olden days, it would be Kelly rolling her eyes at Brenda for entertaining the idea of this cult nonsense.

Brenda did fall under the sway of Skye from the Fallout Club pretty quickly...

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ZeroDiscipline

ZeroDiscipline

(edited)
9 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

Brenda did fall under the sway of Skye from the Fallout Club pretty quickly...

She did! She fell for everything, and Kelly was always there with a dose of reality, whether it was dating Dylan, planning the race-war dance, smoking, being in a play, or marrying that caveman Stuart. Kelly was kind of a Debbie Downer anyway, but she wasn't truly sanctimonious until she hooked up with Brandon. It is a good thing Brenda got out of town, because can you imagine constantly being judged by those two dillholes?

Edited by ZeroDiscipline
typo
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CurlyATX

CurlyATX

So many things to mention in the episode.

1. Steve! The level of entitlement is astonishing.  He didn't get any jail time, only spent a little time with Uncle Milty at the old folks' home, and actions resulted in some serious property damage and injuries.  This is like Brock Turner complaining that his mug shot was being published on fb.

2. Kelly and Val. I love how Val also got into the workshop for free.  I wonder if everyone got a "free pass for being special".  I didn't realize how freaking needy Kelly is! 

3. cults.  Is this around the time of Waco too?

4. Dylan and Brandon.  Why is it that the Gang refuses to talk about cheating when Kelly switches partners?  It wasn't really addressed when Kelly/Dylan hooked up, except for an odd cross reference by Steve.  Now this  Do they just like to live in a bubble where Kelly has relationships, then cleanly ends them, then starts up a new one? Plus why are they all still friends?! 

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MCMLXXVII

MCMLXXVII

11 hours ago, Klaw said:

Me too. I lived in LA in the 90s and I definitely recall me and my GenX friends talking about Scientology, even then, being "like" a creepy cult and staying far away...we had no idea...

Considering how big and respected (I guess?) Scientology was among celebs before Tom Cruise did the crazy couch-jumping business, it's kind of ballsy for the show to do a "faux-Scientology" storyline. I figure negators and externs are New Evolution "suppressives".

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MerBearStare

MerBearStare

(edited)
40 minutes ago, CurlyATX said:

3. cults.  Is this around the time of Waco too?

Good call! It was. I only remember this because at the time my family lived about an hour away from Waco, but the Branch Davidian standoff happened when I was in 5th grade (so 92/93) and season 5 was when I was in 7th grade, so this episode was about 1.5-2 years after Waco.

Edited by MerBearStare
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Klaw

Klaw

ITA MCMLXXVII, but even in the 90s, I think the cracks were starting to show. For instance, I was by no means "in the business" (although I was futzing around the edges working stupid jobs at studios at the time) but there were whispers even amongst the little people like me that Scientologists were weirdos and that, for example, Bill Cosby wasn't a good guy (although I had no idea of the extent of it). It just goes to show how much the Internet really turned over rocks, even for 'Open Secrets" like that.

Because the lingo is so good for this show, i have to wonder if the writers (not known for their finesse) had actual experience in a cult?

1 hour ago, CurlyATX said:

Why is it that the Gang refuses to talk about cheating when Kelly switches partners?

Because haven't you heard? St. Kelly of the golden Vajayjay can't help it if people keep falling madly in love with her and she them. Once she ascends to Sainthood, she can do no wrong. Which is why I always found her reaction...

Spoiler

to Brandon stepping out with Emma "YOU'RE A MONSTER!!!"

..so hypocritical and over the top. It's also hilarious everyone falls all over her when you have someone smokin' hot, like Val, right next to her...SMDH.

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scarynikki12

scarynikki12

With regard to the lingo they could have sat in on cult seminars similar to the one in the episode. My parents were at Cal (UC Berkeley to anyone outside of California) and my dad remembers Scientology conducting seminars before they became known for the crazy. 

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txhorns79

txhorns79

Quote

She did! She fell for everything, and Kelly was always there with a dose of reality, whether it was dating Dylan, planning the race-war dance, smoking, being in a play, or marrying that caveman Stuart.

I want to see what the "race-war" dance entails, aside from electric sliding.  And I love the idea that the Fallout Club was really just a cult that immediately sucked Brenda in. 

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ZeroDiscipline

ZeroDiscipline

16 hours ago, WoodyCee said:

Weblos is the 10 year old Scouts. Why couldn't they just say "Once a Scout always a Scout."

I assumed this is just another bad writing staff decision. I picture the writing staff sitting around a room, looking at the script, saying things like "we use the term "boy scout" an awful lot with Brandon. Is there another term? And then someone gets out a dictionary, or encyclopedia (remember- no internet at this time in history) and looks up alternate terms for boy scouts and came up with "webelo", with no context, and stopped right there without doing any further investigation. Like how the same writers decided that Lake Minnetonka was a good name for a Minnesota lake, and didn't bother to read a little bit further to find out that Lake Minnetonka is actually in the suburbs of Minneapolis and is not a tourist destination.

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CurlyATX

CurlyATX

I was thinking about this too.  I think they could have used it as a way to show how he was such a scout that he would use their jargon.  I can't imagine someone saying "Once a brownie, always a brownie" regarding girl scouts.  The scouts reference reminds me of the episode in season one where Steve gets his 'vette stolen by the girl from Growing Pains. 

I'm grateful that Brandon didn't try to say he was an Eagle Scout.  I'm not familiar with much scoutiness, but I know that stuff is legit and you can't just take that in vain.

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Tara Ariano

Tara Ariano

On 11/28/2016 at 1:05 PM, adam807 said:

Just when you thought it couldn't get any 90s-er: The screen saver the flying toaster is from was called After Dark.

I put that together and noted it in the Visual Aids. Look, we have a LOT of crazy stimuli to deal with!

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Nancybeth

Nancybeth

The TV show "Sisters," (Sela Ward, Swoosie Kurtz, all the sisters had mens' names) also had an episode about cults in the early 90s!  Teddy's daughter joined one and all I can remember about it is that they said "Praise Nature," a lot, which my best friend and I still use to this day.

Apparently there were a LOT of cults recruiting members in those days.

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ShellSeeker

ShellSeeker

On 11/28/2016 at 2:12 PM, Klaw said:

God, I love this storyline so much. I was a little kid when Jim Jones went down and I remember being totally freaked out by cults and reading the news and magazines (Time, anyone?) about it - my parents were pre-boomers so they weren't so big on the helicoptering thing, I can't believe the stuff we watched/read/listened to, you whippersnappers have no idea. Ok I digress. But  I do remember being all, "when I grow up, I'm NEVER going to join a cult."

OMG, me too! I was about 10 when that happened. It's the first Major News Story that I remember, where everyone pretty much stopped what they were doing when they heard about it. I lived in Saudi Arabia with my parents at that time, and it was even huge news over there...long before the days of the internet and the 24 hours news cycle. I remember that article in Time, and those pictures too. 

Ever since then I've always wondered how/why people join cults. I understand how it happens but at the same time I don't understand it either, you know? I always love storylines like this, even the super cheesy 90210 variety of them. It definitely seemed to be a thing in the 90's, now that I think about it.

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StatMom

StatMom

2 hours ago, Sarah D. Bunting said:

It's plenty big; they could fit through it both at once. It isn't attempted. 

From what I remember, I don't even think they acknowledged that it was there. Another example of the great directing/editing on this show.

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WhosThatGirl

WhosThatGirl

3 hours ago, StatMom said:

From what I remember, I don't even think they acknowledged that it was there. Another example of the great directing/editing on this show.

Does this mean that we were not supposed to see the window? I.e the camera should not have shown it or it should have been edited out? Like how we ignore the boom Mocs that appear every so often.

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adam807

adam807

On 12/2/2016 at 0:25 PM, Tara Ariano said:

I put that together and noted it in the Visual Aids. Look, we have a LOT of crazy stimuli to deal with!

Yeah I saw that later. While listening I was mostly surprised that Dave didn't get it immediately!

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