S03.E18: Bleeding Through

[formerlyfreedom]

Regina tries to connect with a deceased Cora in order to find out why Zelena was abandoned. Meanwhile, Belle uncovers Zelena's true objective; and back in fairy-tale land, young Cora is tricked by a fake prince before she meets a real royal.

 

[Last Time Lord]

You know, for a minute there, I was afraid they were going to make Zelena Leopold's daughter.

Henry's family tree is fucked up enough, that is the very last thing it needed.

[Grammaeryn]

Sooo I'm incredibly confused.  When did the events of The Millers Daughter take place?  After this episode chronologically?

[Last Time Lord]

This episode happens before The Miller's Daughter, chronologically, yes.

[Crimson Belle]

So Cora lies to Leopold in an effort to pass another man's child off as his after she gets him to marry her under false pretenses, but Eva is the bad guy for telling her former fiance about it?

The creators of this show have a really screwed up unrealistic sense of morality.

And on a scale of one to boring, this was a 38.

[Jul 68]

I'm thinking this was after The Miller's Daughter.

[Crimson Belle]

Definitely before Miller's Daughter. Cora is pregnant with the Green Monster, and she's older than the perpetual victim, so it has to be before.

[Mari]

What was that?  Seriously--what was that?

First, what was with Rose McGowan's performance?  She did a great job last time.  Why was every sentence forced out with such bizarre, yet restrained, passion?  Huh?

Secondly,  Zelena wants Regina's heart because it's resilient?  What?  Passionate, or devoted, or fierce.  But resilient?  That is not a heart that bounces back well.  It took her how many years to even think about caring for another person again after Daniel died?  At least 20?  And over 30 before she seriously considered another romantic relationship? 

Thirdly, why does telling the man you were engaged to your whole life that his new fiancé is pregnant with another man's child and is stealing from him make you dark?  Really?  Snide during, maybe, but dark?

Fourthly, could Snow maybe stop apologizing to Regina?  Please, show?  Because while apologizing to her once was the right thing to do, and very in-character for Mary Margaret, Regina ruined her life.  Repeatedly.  Could the show please stop acting like Snow's transgressions in that relationship completely victimized mostly innocent Regina?

And Cora didn't give up Zelena.  She abandoned her on the side of the road.  Giving a baby up is what Emma did--doing your best to make sure that your baby gets a good and loving home.  Cora didn't even leave Zelena on someone's doorstep and hide in the bushes to make sure someone answered.

Plus--if Zelena were after your heart and the Charmings' baby, wouldn't you hide the heart and have Mary Margaret stay at David and Mary Margaret's place?

[pcta]

This was a truly unsatisfying episode. Don't care about Cora's angst. "She didn't want to give her (ww) up, she was forced to." What a crock. The baby was an inconvenience for Cora's big plan. So Snow and Emma have to take on some family guilt (such darkness - nonsense) because they told the truth.

[Jul 68]

Ava did the right thing. Cora had a chance to tell the truth and chose not to.

What was with the disappearing door that was never noticed? I would have noticed if a door in my house vanished.

Looks like Jane Epinson has been watching too much GoT regarding the twisted relationships of royals.

Did baby Zelena create the tornado to get away from her horrible mother (and to avoid becoming dog food)? Baby Zelena needs to have a talk with grown-up Zelena.

[Joystickenvy]

So it wasn't bad enough that we have Regina hating Snow for revealing a secret as a child who thought they were doing something good, but now Snow is blaming herself for Regina and her mother, for ratting out a lying liar who lies....and steals....and was trying to pass off her kid as someone else's for Cora abandoning her kid on the side of the road because it would interfere with her plans to clique jump. And now Regina is the poor downtrodden, yet resilient victim of the Charming family. Wtf show?

Worst of all there wasn't even anything interesting about the Zelena backstory. Blargh.

[Heather Lynn]

Ava did the right thing. Cora had a chance to tell the truth and chose not to..

I did think Leopold said that he didn't care if there was a baby but he just wanted the truth and Cora still lied. Yes Ava was a bit catty about the reveal but saying it's evil is an exaggeration. If Cora had told the truth, I got the feeling she would be the princess she wanted to be.

Add me to those confused about the timeline. At first, I thought the scene where Ava overheard Cora's conversation with the baby daddy and the reveal of the truth bookended the scene from The Miller's Daughter, which made Ava's harassment of Cora more logical since she knew Cora was a big 'ole liar, but Cora was still dressed as a peasant then and no one recognized her so I have no idea.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Heather Lynn

[BoPeeps]

What a total mess.

This family tree is a bunch of screw ups.

[TrininisaScorp]

This was a truly unsatisfying episode.

 

It really was!  This was the first episode since the long break that I didn't enjoy.  The "hey audience, I don't know if you remember anything, like names of people and stuff, so we'll make sure to beat you over the head about it" moments were very annoying and the actors, who I usually think are good, didn't sell me at all. "Leopald and Ava are not good names for our baby, even if they are the names of your PARENTS...blah blah"

I'm hoping we get this Hook stuff out in the open sooner rather than later.  I don't care for down in the dumps Hook.  I like my Cap'ain with his swag intact.  Ha!

Between the Rumple/Zelena smoochy and Game of Thrones' incest, I'm pretty done with inappropriate people inappropriately making out with each other.   

My only big moments of enjoyment this episode were the moments between Regina and Snow.  I didn't care for the history lesson from Cora's stinky POV, but I like how the two women didn't fall back into any old patterns.  They had a real conversation.  I think we'd save ourselves a lot of time and frustration on this show if people just had more honest discussion.   Oddly, I liked the "screw it, kiss the hot guy" moment from Regina.  Why the hell not? 

Cora can just suck it.  Yeah, Ava was a little tattletale, but Cora abandoned her baby for her own selfish needs and then spent tons of years killing people.  Ava figured out how to be a good queen, while Cora couldn't figure out how to even try to be a good person. 

[Camera One]

Reposted from TWOP:

If the actresses who played Snow White and Regina weren't so good, I would be throwing a spinning wheel through a window right now.

So the common starting point of everything going wrong in the past was Ava.  Of course.  And they also had to add in Emma saying "I thought our family were the good guys."   I think they forgot the part where Ava turned into an ogre and ate a baby. 

On a technical note, how exactly did she get behind some solitary tree in the park without being seen? 

This episode presented Regina's crimes against Snow and Snow's (and her bloodline's) crimes towards Regina as being equal, which was beyond infuriating.  For the number of times that Regina pointedly mentioned that Snow *murdered* Cora.  She mentions Cora killing Ava, but what about Johanna?  Daniel?  Will we still get to Regina admitting that it wasn't Snow's fault?  But now they can leave the past behind, because they've forgiven each other? Since Snow had already forgiven Regina, basically, they're saying they can leave the past behind them because Regina has forgiven Snow.  This is just so messed up.

So apparently, you can put a spell on a heart, so you cannot be controlled by someone who possesses it?  First time we've heard of that one.

That means Snow was even *more* justified in killing Cora, since she could likely NOT have controlled Cora by holding her heart, to prevent her from becoming the Dark One. 

Don't you just love it when they change the rules?  And the backstory, of course. 

Finally, a single magic lesson, and Emma's all "by sundown, I'll be ready?"  Give me a freakin' break!  Now, she's apparating things around the diner like she's been doing it all her life?  With all the plot waffling, couldn't they have slowed down and developed that?

[Shanna Marie]

I don't think Snow saw all the flashbacks we saw. Cora only showed her the part that made Cora look like a victim because Cora is a bitch and wants Snow to suffer. Cora skipped the parts about lying to Leopold from the start and being a social climber out to snag a prince and cover up an inconvenient pregnancy. She was probably hoping to get married quickly and then have a "premature" baby, and that's why she was lying to Leo about being pregnant.

[legaleagle53]

I'm thinking this was after The Miller's Daughter.

No, this was before The Miller's Daughter.  Cora hasn't yet learned to spin straw into gold -- in fact, she hasn't even met Rumpel yet.  I think what's confusing is that young Ava didn't appear to recognize Cora when we first met her in The Miller's Daughter -- but her going out of her way to publicly humiliate Cora makes sense now, as does Cora's ultimate revenge of murdering Ava and corrupting Snow's heart for thwarting Cora's original plan to marry into royalty.

Edited April 21, 2014 by legaleagle53

[LilWharveyGal]

I think Emma put it best when she said, "What the hell was that?"

[daxx]

Wasn't impressed with this ep I am sorry to say. Only really enjoyed Emma using her magic to flirt with Hook.

Not feeling the outlaw queen love either. Regina doesn't have her heart after all. Just not enough build up to it.

Polar opposite of my OTP CaptainSwan, extra slow burn. Glad Emma is finally thawing out, her timing sucks though.

[shapeshifter]

Since Hook has been playing the part of Mopey, the Eighth and Taller Dwarf this season, it's kind of hard to tell, but I'm guessing he was bummed out at the diner because of the kiss curse, right?

And as long as they brought up time travel, I'm going to assume that any retcons or plot holes regarding Cora and Leopold knowing each other (or anything else) are due to previous time travel spells having created alternate realities, because even if Zelena, Rumple, et al. claim there's never been a successful time travel spell before, they could all be living in an alternate timeline and never know.

Editing to correct sleep typing

Edited April 21, 2014 by shapeshifter

[thuganomics85]

Damnit, show.  You lose me every time you make Snow come off like some villain for killing Cora.  Maybe this is some kind of "in character" thing (someone as nice and pure as Snow, would still blame herself, reasons be damned), but I just keep wanting her to shut it and stand up for herself.  At least Regina really doesn't seem angry about it, but I really wish Regina would just be "I get it, Snow.  My mom was getting ready to go to town as the Dark One.  It had to be done."

Whatever issues I had though, Lana Parilla continues to be awesome.  I loved not just the dramatic moments, but also the fun stuff, like her trying to control Ghost Cora.  She totally had a "Oh, for fuck sakes, knock it off, Mom!" feel to every line and look.  Moms are so embarrassing.

This episode's guest stars include Rebecca Mader and Rebecca Mader's cleavage.  Seriously, in her dinner scene with Rumpel, there was about five times where I felt like the camera was focusing more on her breasts, then either her or Robert Carlyle.  Not that I'm complaining too much...

Hook should just tell Emma the truth, if he's going to be this grumpy about it.  Broody Hook is no fun.

[myril]

Two things I told myself to get ready for this episode:
a) this is Once Upon a Fairy Tale Soap Opera Time, which leads to
b) it's meant to give the brain a break, so, brain, take your break, shut up.

Helpful preparation, just forgot to have some tasty bittersweet cider around (red or green apples? make it red and green) and maybe next time should prepare as well a spicy shark soup.

But stumbling through this episode of wonderous moments, questionable plot and retcon made it very hard to keep my brain shut up.

Seriously? Leo was betrothed to Eva but nearly fell in love with cute peasant Cora, who had no love for him but for his title. And they present it as more or less another villain sob story? Although thankfully they made Cora say to Zelena baby, that she has to give her up for her very own best chance and not for Zelena's sake, so Cora didn't care the least bit what would happen to Zelena but every bit about her own persuit of happiness, all selfish narcissist. And Eva is the bad because she told Leo the truth? Alright, she did it with a grain of malice, not something a good princess should feel. Right, Cora for sure saw it that way, Eva the bad one, the destroyer of her life, blabla, got it. Whatever.

And the butler did it, or as we actually say in German, the gardener. Looking forward to the moment when Jonathan might turn out to be Merlin in his second Sturm und Drang years (known as Storm and Stress, though Drang is better translated as impulse or urge or drive… aka wild years), who had just come back disillusioned and turned ruthless from his hundred of years lasting trip through the worlds looking unsuccessfully for his blue flower Nimue (or Viviane, The Lady of the Lake, not the one we saw, another one) who meanwhile had become the Blue Fairy and accidentally created the smoke monster of the lake searching for her lost love. The monster later became known as the Dark One… Nimue and Merlin are kept apart by a curse by Nimue's sister, who became the Black Fairy, who just couldn't stand the idea, that her sister might find her true love before she would.

This is somewhat like a rewrite of Dynasty just with storybook characters.

But there were moments to enjoy

Rumple trying to enchant Zelena to get his dagger. Looked like Robert Carlyle and Rebecca Mader had a bit of fun with these scenes.

Guess my love for Golden Age of Hollywood movies and Film Noir totally spoiled me, the decades of the Hays Code, because I just can't help it and read subtext. And no, it's not always about just the gay.  Hook saying "That's bad form, Swan... Tampering with a man's hook" made my day. Or night. And Belle interupting Emma's game. My goodness, this is a Sunday eve family show... Don't know who wrote that part, but Jane Espenson had her hands in the script and she is a master of subtext.

If this show just would go all campy - it could be a good one.

Edited April 21, 2014 by katusch

[Blue Girl]

At least Regina really doesn't seem angry about it, but I really wish Regina would just be "I get it, Snow.  My mom was getting ready to go to town as the Dark One.  It had to be done."

Except maybe it didn't have to be done, Cora's last words were that Regina would have been enough, and even Snow admitted there were other paths she could have taken.  I do agree that feeling guilty about killing someone does seem to be "in character" for Snow, but I think it would be equally out of character for Regina, who loved her mother despite everything, to say that Snow was justified in killing her.

I enjoyed this episode.  I wasn't sure how a Cora-centric fairyback would go, but I did feel for her character.  I kinda wish once Cora came into her full magical powers that she turned the gardener into a snail and stepped on him.

 

[Petunia846]

So that was pretty terrible. I a) don't care that much about Cora's life and therefore Zelena's backstory and b) was confused by the timeline and backtracking and endless recasting of characters, so I pretty much tuned out of this and fiddled around on the computer. The only thing that made me laugh was Emma messing with Hook's hook. Oh, if only the rest of the episode could have been as funny. Also, eww eww eww to Rumple kissing Zelena. So wrong. What the hell was that? I really don't even understand what the point of that scene was. Did making out with him help her get his brains or something? Eww. No.

[Ariah]

The timeline of this show is seriously more twisted than Dr Who. So Ava should have recognized Cora in The Miller's Daughter, right? That's why she tripped her? And Leopold had a bad case of selective amnesia. Or he just thought: "well, Rose McGowan could not mature into Barbara Hershley, so this couldn't be the girl I once wanted to marry."

I liked only the Emma scenes: the giggling, smiling, flirting Emma. (Emma, your Jennifer Morrison is showing!). It was good to see the roles in Captain Swan reversed: this time around she was the one open and he head his broody walls up. Too bad there was a Bellus Interruptus. But I hope Hook comes clean in the next episode - because not doing so would go against his character, as demonstrated in 3A.

Speaking of Belle - she's a much better character without Rumple. Sorry for all the Rumbelle fans, but that's how I see it. She stands her ground, she verbalizes her anger... You go girl!

[SilvaVocat]

The timeline here is screwy.

Cora get pregnant, meets Prince Leopold. Gets dumped by Prince Leopold.

Leopold and Ava get married.

Cora has Zelena

The Miller's Daughter happens

Cora has Regina

Leopold and Ava were what? Having fertility issues? Waiting until the new castle was built? 

Finally Leopold and Ava have Snow

I mean, I know fertility issues are real, but have we been told that Leopold and Ava had to wait a long time for a child? 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I thought they were going to make Zelena Leopold's daughter and then I started trying to figure out how that would make Mary Margaret, Regina, and Zelena related. Mary Margaret would have to say that Regina is her half sister's half-sister!

I hated that Snow decided that Ava was a TERRIBLE person for telling Leopold that his bride to be was going to pass off her bastard as the heir to the throne. For the record, it's not because I have any investment at all in the whole "if you the king's son, then you should be the next king regardless of what an evil incompetent fuckwit you are" way of passing the crown. I just don't think that anyone should get married to someone who is already pregnant with someone else's kid without knowing about the pregnancy beforehand and making an informed choice. It's bad enough when it happens with regular people, but with a king and an heir at stake? How is it that the person who actually told the truth is the bad guy in this situation?

I know there is a huge double standard when it comes to women's sexuality even today but even moreso back in ye olden tymes so pregnant women had less options back thenn, but it's pretty ludicrous for Cora to feel she was the one who was wronged in the situation with Leopold. With Jonathan, she should definitely feel wronged because he was a total dick. But in the Leopold and Ava situation, Cora was the one being a dick. She convinced the king to break off his lifelong engagement (which could potentially cause war if Ava were important enough) and planned to pass off the gardner's kid as his. She was already two months pregnant when she met Leopold, and it's unclear how long they were engaged. What the hell was the king going to say when her kid popped out two to three months early but was normal sized?

I hated Snow telling Regina that she had been a brat in the past. I don't recall seeing young Snow be a brat with Regina. I remember her being a little bratty with her maid and then her mother telling her to knock it off, but in her scenes with Regina, she seemed like a sweet little girl. She did break her promise by telling Regina's secret, but from what I remember, she wasn't being a brat when she did it.

When the door in Regina's house disappeared,I totally thought it was going to be like that Buffy episode where they were trapped in the house for her birthday party where no one could leave. I also thought that since the door disappeared, the others wouldn't be able to enter the house. I totally thought there would be a shot of Snow and Regina standing in the hallway and saying, "But the door was RIGHT HERE!" But...nothing. So the door disappearing was totally pointless.

Edited April 21, 2014 by ElectricBoogaloo

[shapeshifter]

And the butler did it, or as we actually say in German, the gardener.

Awesome. Too bad they couldn't have had a quick cameo of Silas Weir Mitchell from Grimm breaking the fourth wall to tell us.

So is he the source of Zelena's green magic? Or did Cora's envy of Ava infect Zelena in the womb and the magic tornado was just some cosmic fairy event to protect an abandoned babe by imbuing her with special powers?

A brief apologetic for Jonathan the Dick: As someone who has been pregnant and had the child's father skip town, I feel free to defend him a little bit. He saw Cora in the bar teasing the men. Cora was only interested in him because she thought he was a prince. When she found out he was a gardener, she demanded money. Neither the night they met nor 2 months later did she ever express any affection for him. In the bar she didn't say: Even if you weren't a prince, you would still be a prince to me. And when she knew she was pregnant and found out he was a gardener, she didn't ask if he cared for her, she just asked for money.

I thought it odd that Hook was included in the seance. Was this because he is now the acknowledged front runner for Emma's affections, or is it just because he is a main cast member? If the former, they missed an opportunity to clarify exactly what his intentions are regarding courting a princess. Oh well, there will always be flash backs, previouslies, and fairy backs.

Edited April 21, 2014 by shapeshifter

[beadgirl]

 

Leopold and Ava were what? Having fertility issues? Waiting until the new castle was built?

Finally Leopold and Ava have Snow

I mean, I know fertility issues are real, but have we been told that Leopold and Ava had to wait a long time for a child?

I don't think they've said anything about Leopold and Eva, but given Snow White's mother's "Oh I wish I had a daughter ..." I had always assumed she had not been able to have children easily.

Gah.  The timeline gave me a headache.  The notion that Eva's evil started all this in motion is ridiculous; Eva was kind of bitchy and later mean, but she is by no means the bad guy for telling Leopold.  I hope it is, as someone above speculated, Cora giving a biased account of things to Snow (although that seems a bit subtle for the writers).  At least they showed Cora revealing her true reasons for abandoning Zelena ("with you I'll only be a miller's daughter").  Poor baby. (Not feeling bad for Zelena as an adult, however.)

I'm not bothered by Leopold not recognizing the mother of his second wife -- she was much older then, and had clearly moved up in the world; I don't think it would have occurred to him she could have been the lowly peasant girl from decades ago.

Although, now that I think about it: Cora married Prince Henry, right? And he was Regina's father, the one she sacrificed?  Did he not become king in his own right?  If Cora was queen, wouldn't have it been easier to marry Regina off to another royal house, rather than the create the "you saved my daughter" nonsense?  If Henry was a king or at least a prince, why was he functioning as kind of a lackey for Regina?  Did I miss something here?

[Dani-Ellie]

Prince Henry was fifth in line for the throne. I'm assuming he just never got the chance to ascend to it.

[beadgirl]

Ah, thank you.  That makes sense.

[shapeshifter]

I thought they were going to make Zelena Leopold's daughter and then I started trying to figure out how that would make Mary Margaret, Regina, and Zelena related. Mary Margaret would have to say that Regina is her half sister's half-sister!

What a missed opportunity for comic gold! When Snow was still only half conscious, she should've mumbled something like, "Zelena is my half sister, and Regina is my...? Mph. Ungh...," followed by, "No. Wait. The butler did it! I mean the gardener!"

Would've been so much better than yet another line of how sorry she is for preventing the slaughter of her family and others by killing the would-be killer.

[P2C2E]

I can only hope that the door disappearing is a future plot point, otherwise what the hell?

[SilvaVocat]

When that door disappeared I was sure that MM and Regina were going to be trapped inside and childbirth hijinks would ensue. But then Emma and the others came running in and nobody mentioned it. What the hell?

[legaleagle53]

Also, eww eww eww to Rumple kissing Zelena. So wrong. What the hell was that? I really don't even understand what the point of that scene was. Did making out with him help her get his brains or something? Eww. No.

He was trying to distract Zelena so he could steal the dagger from her and end her control over him.  Unfortunately for him, Zelena caught on to what he was trying to do and stopped him before he could take the dagger.

So much of The Miller's Daughter and even The Stable Boy makes sense now after watching this episode.  Of course Ava recognized Cora in The Miller's Daughter and wouldn't have been able to resist the opportunity to publicly humiliate the common woman who tried to break up her engagement by tricking her fiancé into marrying her and passing off her illegitimate child as his (and by the way, Adam confirmed on Twitter last night that Leopold knew that in marrying Regina, he was marrying the daughter of the woman that he almost married).  And I can see why Cora would have felt it necessary to kill Daniel right in front of Regina -- he would have reminded her too much of the gardner who dumped her after tricking her into thinking that he was a prince, and in her mind, allowing Regina to marry Daniel would have caused Regina to make the same mistake that she did when she was that age.  And considering the way Ava destroyed Cora's chances of marrying Leopold (not that she wasn't justified in doing so), I can even see why Cora eventually murdered her and made it part of her mission to destroy Snow's integrity at the same time as the ultimate revenge.

[Camera One]

When that door disappeared I was sure that MM and Regina were going to be trapped inside and childbirth hijinks would ensue. But then Emma and the others came running in and nobody mentioned it. What the hell?

Maybe there was a cut scene where Emma and Charming came to the house and the door was missing?  Hijinks ensued until Emma used her magic to blast a door open.  And then they decided to cut it out because it was too stupid even for this episode and they needed to insert another scene of Snow prostrating herself in front of Regina for her line of ancestors telling secrets which caused chains of events leading to destruction of entire realms.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Camera One

[P2C2E]

Maybe there was a cut scene where Emma and Charming came to the house and the door was missing? Hijinks ensued until Emma used her magic to blast a door open.

I hope not! That door disappearing was the most interesting thing that happened all episode! I'd hate for it to have no meaning.

[SilvaVocat]

(and by the way, Adam confirmed on Twitter last night that Leopold knew that in marrying Regina, he was marrying the daughter of the woman that he almost married).  

I hate that. If it's canon, show it to us. Telling twitter about your retcon is bad story telling.

[Helena Dax]

WTF? Is this show really saying that what happened to Cora was Ava's fault? It's ridiculous. And I'm sorry, but Cora's face was very distracting. I'm assuming she was supposed to be twentysomething but she looked like a fourtysomething woman full of  botox pretending to be young and to me, it didn't work at all. 

I'm glad to see Rumple's still trying to do the  best thing.

No one  broods as well as Hook.

[Shanna Marie]

Is this show really saying that what happened to Cora was Ava's fault?

I don't think so, or they wouldn't have shown us all of Cora's sketchy behavior and made it clear that Cora was lying to Leo and that she abandoned Zelena because the baby would get in the way of her ambitions. Snow got Cora's version of the story, which only showed the one incident where Cora looked like a victim and Ava looked bad.

[Petunia846]

Also, eww eww eww to Rumple kissing Zelena. So wrong. What the hell was that? I really don't even understand what the point of that scene was. Did making out with him help her get his brains or something? Eww. No.

He was trying to distract Zelena so he could steal the dagger from her and end her control over him. Unfortunately for him, Zelena caught on to what he was trying to do and stopped him before he could take the dagger.

I got that part, but what was the point of the fancy dinner scene to begin with? Why did Cora bring him a clean suit and wave her clevage in his face?

[Dani-Ellie]

I could watch an entire episode of Emma practicing magic and being all proud of herself. Anything that makes Emma Swan, of all people, giggle in excitement like that is good in my book.

[shapeshifter]

I just had to bring this over from TWoP. Too funny but so likely:

Now to the one thing that bugged me the whole episode - who was watching Henry?????

No one - he was hotwiring a Miata.

In a society with equal rights for women, Cora and Ava might have been buddies because neither one would've wanted to marry old Leopold. They could've set up their own magic shop.

And I'm a tiny bit glad that Zelena didn't succumb to Rumple's sexy moves to the point of his getting the dagger. I want someone to get it from her, but necessarily him, and not in that way. I don't have a problem with them making out--it was way hotter than anything he's had with Belle--I'm just relieved that she didn't lose the dagger because she was thinking with her lady parts.

Editing spelling

Edited April 22, 2014 by shapeshifter

[BoPeeps]

The disappearing door was just one of the many *misses* of the episode. Cool in and of itself, but it meant absolutely NOTHING in the scheme of...nothing. For some reason the entourage that had just left came roaring back in without any problem finding a doorway. And yeah, as mentioned above, that same entourage is all for letting Henry *go to the store* or sit by himself at Granny's Bed and Breakfast while a deranged. sexually deprived monkey mistress and her *doll* Rumple freely popped up everywhere and never seemed to use a door either.( *Hotwiring the Miata*...brilliant, heh!)

Did we REALLY need the moaning and throat groaning from Zelena in the contrived *gonna get me some dagger* scene? I am not against erotic innuendo and scenes at all, but this media magnified five seconds was nothing but pure *creep*

Another miss was Eva, being oh so conveniently on the other side of the garden wall, and her lady's maid coming up and in FULL VOICE telling her the coach was ready. That must be the same convenient place young (and supremely dumb) Leopold was standing while Cora was having her little harlot vs *ickhead drama with the gardener daddy. Snork.

The hits were Regina and Snow's dialogue, Emma's delightfully annoying playful magic giddiness in telling Killian to *hang up the Hook*, bad form though it was...and yeah, I liked the smooch scene between Robin and Regina. It is a relationship that isn't complicated like all the others. Refreshing. Regina is embracing her humanity and giving her soul a chance to live outside of anger. The Hook and Emma subtleties that were there, worked, but were so sandwiched between the *stupid*, they might have been missed. Belle. Belle. what again is her true purpose???

I am most likely being too picayune. I just think that as loyal viewers we deserve a bit better overall.

Edited April 22, 2014 by BoPeeps

[Teitr Styrr]

I think the door disappearing and the tornado at the end may have something to do with the time travel spell, and be shown to matter in later episodes.  Kinda like that one Harry Potter movie that did that.  At least I hope so, because if not, random!

[Heather Rose]

We need to talk about how, the only person to, apparently, make the connection between Zelena and the baby was... Prince Charming? He is many things, but the the sharpest prince in the forest is not one of them. 

[Helena Dax]

 

The disappearing door was just one of the many *misses* of the episode. Cool in and of itself, but it meant absolutely NOTHING in the scheme of...nothing. For some reason the entourage that had just left came roaring back in without any problem finding a doorway

I thought  that door wasn't real and it just meant that the spell had worked and Cora had arrived from the Afterlife. You know, like a door between two worlds.

[myril]

I think the door disappearing and the tornado at the end may have something to do with the time travel spell, and be shown to matter in later episodes.  Kinda like that one Harry Potter movie that did that.  At least I hope so, because if not, random!

 

I thought  that door wasn't real and it just meant that the spell had worked and Cora had arrived from the Afterlife. You know, like a door between two worlds.

That doorway was real, has been there since the pilot. 

At first thought, it just was meant to give a prevision of things being off in the house after they had contact with that dark vortex (suspense!), but it was too pronounced to be just that without much of any follow-up refering to that doorway disappearing. And why should the vortex or the ghost be any connected to that doorway disappearing, trapping whoever is in the house for what? Posession? Although the doorway disappearing from the hall doesn't necessarily mean, anyone is trapped, could be just a change in the architecture of the house (strange design maybe, but not impossible to have a different way from main entry hall to main stairwell). Small changes in furniture, architecture, pictures on the shelf or wall, change of clothes are in fantasy and science fiction often hints or foreshadowing that something or someone is changing the timeline, that we are in an alternative timeline or alternative universe. To use the title of the episode, this disappearing doorway could be a sign that maybe an alternative timeline or universe is beginning to bleed through, the world is transforming. In theater bleed through is sometimes used as term for a transformation of the scene by using sharktooth scrim effect (lit from the the front and no back light the scrim is opaque, lit from behind what is behind the scrim becomes visible, fast way to change scenery or to hide set changes being made).

That part of the stairwell, Regina's house is not shown again in this episode, so we can't tell if it was just the effect of the dark vortex spell or if there is more to it. Maybe we will see in the next episodes, but it would have been a lot better to give an idea already in this episode, either show it's back or show it's still gone to the end of the episode. Bad writing and/or directing or editing IMO, regardless what it was meant to show.

Edited April 22, 2014 by katusch

[beadgirl]

 

We need to talk about how, the only person to, apparently, make the connection between Zelena and the baby was... Prince Charming? He is many things, but the the sharpest prince in the forest is not one of them.

I get the impression that after his passiveness in season 1, and the fact that Regina, Emma, and Snow do so much, the writers are trying to make him more heroic and just plain active.

[MelsW]

This was my least favorite episode this season. I have been pretty happy since the mid-season hiatus until this load of crap aired.

First of all, what on earth did Rose McGowan do to her face? Did lip injections exist when Cora was that young? Secondly, what was the point of the Zelena/Rumple scene? Was it so we could check out Zelena's rack? Because that is about all I took away from that scene. Lastly, I can't get on the Ava is "bad" train just because she outed Cora to Leopold. Sure, Ava may have gloated just a bit but seriously, that does not make her one of "the bad guys."

I sure hope the next episode makes up for this snoozefest.

Edited April 22, 2014 by MelsW