S01.E09: The Well-Tempered Clavier

[numbnut]

2 hours ago, Honey said:

Jesse asked the Ford brothers to move in with him, because they were the only ones he trusted at that point.  He didn't realize that Robert Ford had made a deal with the Governor to kill Jesse for a reward.  He shot Jesse in the back of the head in their living room.  The Ford brothers were charged with first degree murder, convicted, and sentenced to hang.  They were pardoned by the Governor.

I forgot about that detail. "Wyatt" shot someone important in the back of the head in Teddy's flashback. I think that victim represents Arnold. That death also ties in with Ford killing Bernard/Arnold (via suicide) with a bullet to the head.

Edited to add: Since Dolores was programmed to kill Arnold by Ford (my theory), I wonder if Ford will be called a "coward" at some point for not killing Arnold himself.

Edited December 3, 2016 by numbnut

[catrox14]

I refuse to accept that Bernard is dead. NOPE.

[Willowy]

That's so funny how none of us accept it. It's like with The Avengers and Coulson. Everyone screamed NOOOOO. And they brought him back. They were not going to, but the public's force of disbelief, the wall of their surety was so strong that Marvel just said fuck it. Bring him back. 

That's how it feels with Bernard. And also because we didn't really seem him die in stark relief, just in silhouette, so there's always the question. Plus, robot. So fixy.

[ennui]

We've seen Dolores hold a gun to her head, and she's still around.

Although, I hate shows where people die but they aren't dead and they come back. 

[Netfoot]

29 minutes ago, Franky said:

we didn't really seem him die in stark relief, just in silhouette, so there's always the question.

Most of the killing has taken place off camera.  Even the scene where TMIB kills Lawrence's family  and shoots the guy through the wall, we miss most of that violence.

[dr pepper]

13 hours ago, Pippin said:

I wondered if Ford's name was a nod to Huxley's Brave New World:

"Orgy porgy, Ford and fun, Kiss the girls and make them one"

Actually, if you read the book, there are a lot of parallels between the lives of the people in Huxley's society and those of the Hosts.

Actually, you should read the book anyway because it's a damned good read.

One of the most interesting elements of that book is how everyone knows how the system works and no one really cares. There's one scene in which a couple of Alphas watch a movie about an Alpha who becomes free-- that is, he suffers trauma that wipes out his conditioning, but by the end, he's glad to be back under the programming. No one finds that tragic.

[Netfoot]

3 hours ago, dr pepper said:

One of the most interesting elements of that book is how everyone knows how the system works and no one really cares.

That's because thanks to social conditioning, underneath their erudite sophistication, the Alphas and Betas are really not much better than Epsilons. 

[Goatherd]

Since the show did play the anagram game after all, with Arnold Weber / Bernard Lowe... should we make anything of the fact that Dolores Abernathy spells things like "Obey Arnold, haters" or "Arnold, a byte's hero" or "Bear ye Arnold, host"...?

Edited December 4, 2016 by Goatherd

[Pallas]

On 12/3/2016 at 3:38 AM, numbnut said:

The MiB has said more than once that he doesn't have much time, and this ep reveals that he's on the board, so could his limited time be due to the board's imminent arrival?

I think so. The Man in Black is that representative of the board that Theresa and Ford referred to. Back when Theresa didn't have much time.

[TobinAlbers]

Quote

The plan to basically have a host walk out of the park seems like a bad idea, especially when Sizemore is handling the details.

Yeah, if Charlotte is as smart as we're to believe she is, she's setting Sizemore up as the patsy with Abernathy as the decoy and has kept the real means of extracting the information to herself. 

My weak theory is Charlotte is the MiB's daughter.  The way he interacted with her was much less hostile than practically anyone we've seen; she came to him with a request in a distant/cold way that could read as professional but attributed to her anger regarding her mother's death and yet still expected (perhaps felt entitled to) assistance/compliance which he firmly but gently didn't give. It'd explain why she got the job on the board as such a young age if he intitially pulled the strings. If we're going with MiB=William then when he went back to the real world maybe he did marry Logan's sister and they adopted. Or he didn't marry Logan's sister like we're assuming and married someone else (for some reason I'm thinking Gina Torres in a new/different character so we can bring her back on a regular basis) and that's how he got Charlotte. How this plays out in the bigger picture, no clue.

I binged all nine episodes in an afternoon due to a bad cold. I have no regrets except sleeping with cold meds in your system after watching this show gives you some really messed up dreams.

Edited December 4, 2016 by TobinAlbers

[paramitch]

On 11/28/2016 at 3:47 AM, dr pepper said:

By the way, the title "The Well Tempered Clavier" has to do with experimentation in classical music. In the music theory developed in Europe over the centuries, an octave is 12 half steps. (snipped for space)  I don't like classical myself, so i really don't know how big a difference it makes. Anyway, i think the title relates to the hosts all being Ford's to tune as he sees fit, just like the player piano.

Wonderful post! The first thought I had was about Bach's series of compositions on this title (I am a massive Bach fan). I'd also add that the Baroque movement was masterful in the introduction and use of deliberate occasions of dissonance to incorporate a sense of heightened tension, so I'm wondering if that factors in here (to both allusions) as well.

On 11/28/2016 at 7:19 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

First rule: if you don't see a body, they're not necessarily dead.

I'm holding out hope that Bernard was able to overcome/outwit Ford's narrative command.

This! Fingers crossed.

On 11/28/2016 at 10:20 AM, Pallas said:

The catalyst, rather. Not only grief but other forms of suffering, especially those Ford mentions: self-doubt, guilt, self-hatred. Suffering and memory. Until those two ingredients of regret seep into their blood, the hosts are mere mechanicals. And no more nor less content to be so -- at the end of the day, or the end of their loops -- than a can of beans.

Great point -- it seems like the grief can function in more than one way. It spurs some of the hosts into sentience or a search for meaning. It's not clear if Dolores was already awakening before her grief, but grief certainly spurred Maeve, and meanwhile provided core meaning for Bernard as his cornerstone. Either way, I think grief is every bit as important as love in the progression of artificial intelligence as WW portrays it on the road to independence and actuality. 

On 11/28/2016 at 0:54 PM, CrashTextDummie said:

This show isn't Lost, folks. Lost threw crazy shit at its viewership and dared them to figure it out without having the faintest idea what it was all supposed to mean itself. Westworld is fully in control of its narrative. It means that the mysteries are way less mysterious and that the twists are less shocking. But it also means it's one of the most rewarding television experiences I've ever had.

I was one of the few, the proud, who enjoyed "Lost" all the way through, even if it was also apparent about halfway through that the creators had really not had any kind of plan for the show's meaning or mythos. But I thought the show rallied and ended in a truly interesting and beautiful way. Meanwhile, I would however agree that WW is more carefully and painstakingly imagined, and I love the sense I constantly get that this show is a composition that is fully aware of every layer of its stories.

 

On 11/28/2016 at 11:05 PM, Lingo said:

It does indeed appear that past-Dolores will have gone through all of her adventures, seemingly for nothing. There is almost definitely some tragic ending for past-Dolores waiting to be revealed in the final episode. Most likely, Ford discovers her awakening consciousness, or some other park operators decide that she is malfunctioning (hopefully involving Logan's death in some way); either way, her memories are probably "erased" and she is tragically put back on her loop for another 30 years. It will be a bitter ending to that story, but we can at least still hold out hope that present-Dolores does not meet the same fate.

I'm very, very worried that poor 30-years-past-Dolores is almost certainly careening toward a tragic conclusion -- but (I hope) one tempered and empowered, in her current storyline. I definitely think her fate 30 years back may have resulted in the deaths of Arnold, Logan (?), and more -- and put her permanently on Ford's shit list. It is apparent to me from their past scene together that Ford views her as a nemesis and potential equal.

On 11/29/2016 at 4:38 AM, Door said:

I feel pretty confident that poor Bernard will return. Ford said that he and Bernard had been at this point multiple times; had nearly the same exact confrontation many times before. I imagine a lot of those confrontations ended in using the backdoor code to get Bernard to kill himself. One of the saddest parts of this scene was Bernard's dawning horror while asking how many times he'd been rolled back. I can only hope for Bernard's sake that when he comes back around, he will either remember more easily or perhaps encounter Maeve who will counter-program him/ set him back on the sentient path.

This was exactly my read on the scene -- that Bernard is, for good or ill, trapped to repeat his performances as Arnold until he (invariably) rebels. I hope so, anyway (and I hope in this case he can be revived without a total replacement, so that he can hopefully recover his memories and eventually kick Ford in the jujubes.

On 11/29/2016 at 5:29 AM, Netfoot said:

That is one of my biggest annoyances.  We see signs of emergence/transcendence in Dolores early in the season, in William's company -- supposedly 30 years ago.  We see similar glitches of emergence/transcendence in Dolores in the company of TMIB -- presumably 30 years later.  So, am I to believe that emergence/transcendence stalled?  Went nowhere for 30 years?  

It seems cruel of the writers to condemn Dolores to 30 years of sensing the horror of her true reality, yet being unable to improve upon it; forced to endure it.  All so they can introduce their clever, two-timeline, script trickery!

I don't think these things are disconnected. I do think Ford's consignment of poor Dolores to her incredibly sad storyline is, in fact, a cruel and deliberate punishment. It has been apparent to me ever since the scene in which they sat across from each other a few eps back that Ford views Dolores with a clear, cold hatred. When she asked him, brightly, "Are we very old friends?" his response was, basically, "Um, NO." So of course it's cruel that Dolores has been subjected to 30 YEARS of torture, but I don't think it's accidental -- I think it's absolutely Ford taking revenge on a host who colluded with his partner against him, and who may have further (1) killed said partner; and (2) very nearly toppled Westworld itself.

So -- in essence -- she almost beat him once. I think Ford is fully capable of being methodical and extravagantly savage in response to those who rebel against him.

In this narrative, I feel like Ford is a self-made god. He will countenance no Lucifers, no avenging or revolting angels. He will cruelly punish those who try.

On 11/30/2016 at 3:29 AM, Pallas said:

I think the maze insignia is summoned or perceived by people who are bereft. Dying Maeve with her murdered daughter. The Man in Black whose wife had killed herself. Lawrence's daughter after the Man murdered her mother, and her father left with him. Bernard, who even more than most mourners, woke each day into his loss. Dolores soon after the murders of her parents. Not William, though, when he's encountered it: to him it doesn't look like anything. But he'll catch sight of it before the season ends.

I love this idea, and think it's really genius. I've already posted about how integral I think grief is to the stories and progessions of the hosts (and humans) on Westworld. So your idea that it actually summons up the maze quest is really beautiful -- I find it fascinating.

PS -- I forgot to mention this, but I have to echo the major kudos for Mark Blankenship's gorgeous recap. Seriously thought-provoking and beautiful work, thank you.

Edited December 4, 2016 by paramitch
PS, forgot something...

[Avaleigh]

27 minutes ago, TobinAlbers said:

Yeah, if Charlotte is as smart as we're to believe she is, she's setting Sizemore up as the patsy with Abernathy as the decoy and has kept the real means of extracting the information to herself. 

My weak theory is Charlotte is the MiB's daughter.  The way he interacted with her was much less hostile than practically anyone we've seen; she came to him with a request in a distant/cold way that could read as professional but attributed to her anger regarding her mother's death and yet still expected (perhaps felt entitled to) assistance/compliance which he firmly but gently didn't give. It'd explain why she got the job on the board as such a young age if he intitially pulled the strings. If we're going with MiB=William then when he went back to the real world maybe he did marry Logan's sister and they adopted. Or he didn't marry Logan's sister like we're assuming and married someone else (for some reason I'm thinking Gina Torres in a new/different character so we can bring her back on a regular basis) and that's how he got Charlotte. How this plays out in the bigger picture, no clue.

I binged all nine episodes in an afternoon due to a bad cold. I have no regrets except sleeping with cold meds in your system after watching this show gives you some really messed up dreams.

If Charlotte has to be a daughter of a character we know, then doesn't it make more sense for her father to be Arnold? She's pretty much the right age (assuming she was born a year or so before or a few months after Arnold's death) and physically (to me anyway) looks as though she could be Jeffrey Wright's daughter. More so than Ed Harris's daughter anyway. There's also the name similarity of Charlotte and Bernard's son Charlie. IIRC, the MIB gives his daughter's name and it's something totally different than Charlotte. 

If this theory is true, I can't decide on why Charlotte doesn't seem to know that Bernard looks just like her father. Maybe it's somehow something that has already been addressed or maybe she genuinely doesn't know. I find the latter hard if not almost impossible to swallow but I'm trying to consider all of the possibilities. I wonder if Hale is the last name she was born with or if it's a married name. If it's her birth name, maybe she's been shielded from the fact that Arnold was her father? But then how do we explain her inheriting her position--if that is in fact why she's in such a powerful position at such a young age. She'd have to know that she inherited through her father and would undoubtedly be curious to learn more about him. Are we really to believe that her mother had no pictures of this guy? Or is her mother out of the picture too? Maybe she was shown pictures of a different man and never thought to question that she might be being lied to. 

Even if she doesn't turn out to be somebody's secret daughter, I feel like there's still more to be revealed with her character. 

As for Maeve and Dolores, I can't help but wonder if both women were modeled on real people that Arnold and Ford knew. Maeve is the only one of the hosts that we've seen to have a child (not counting Ford's family) and it makes me wonder if Ford created Maeve and her kid as a kind of nod to Arnold's wife and child. With Dolores, I get the impression that she's an idealized version of someone that Arnold and Ford once knew.

Re: Dolores, I originally thought that her name was spelled Delores and thought for sure that it was taken from Delos but now I think it's just coincidence that there's a similarity. 

[dgpolo]

1 hour ago, Avaleigh said:

Re: Dolores, I originally thought that her name was spelled Delores and thought for sure that it was taken from Delos but now I think it's just coincidence that there's a similarity. 

I think they named her Dolores because of it's meaning: Sorrows. And to evoke other words like, dolorous: causing, marked by, or expressing misery or grief; or doldrums: a spell of listlessness or despondency; dolor: mental suffering or anguish; dolefulness: full of grief. (meanings taken from Merriam-Webster online)

Some of the synonyms for doldrums were eye-popping!: cold storage, deep freeze, abeyance, dormancy, holding pattern.

Delos is practically the only 'holdover from the 1973 movie (aside from Brynner's gunslinger hanging out in an abandoned office) it's the name of a Greek island but I'm not sure that ties in, in anyway.

For those upthread that talked about 'Brave New World', I've never read it, but while looking up the 'orgy, porgy' quote, I found out the name 'Ford' (as in Henry) is used in place of 'God' or 'Lord' and a major character is named Bernard.

I, too, am hoping Bernard isn't 'truly' dead and will return. Also hoping Charlotte is not related to anyone and will be dispatched quickly, hopefully by Abernathy.

Edited December 4, 2016 by dgpolo
'cause words don't have symtoms

[KaleyFirefly]

On 11/27/2016 at 9:36 PM, okerry said:

But remember - Dumb & Dumber told her she'd need an entire rebuild to get the explosive charge out of her C6 vertebrae. "Death" by fire might be the way to get a total rebuild.

But why would they bother re-building such a damaged host...they'd just scrap her and make a new one.

On 11/28/2016 at 8:29 AM, xaxat said:

I would totally buy WestWorld HQ menswear. Ford and Bernard's jackets, vests, ties. Bernard's glasses. Stubbs' jacket.

All of it. . . 

I'd wear Maeve's dresses

[madam magpie]

On 11/28/2016 at 2:12 PM, Gobi said:

Dolores is in the town at least three different times. At the time of the original massacre, wearing a dress; with William after the town was burned/buried, wearing pants; and in the present, when the town has been dug up and rebuilt. The last is when she encounters TMIB again, and is wearing pants.

But why do you think the two pants-wearing times are different? The outfit is the same...

I like this show a lot, but would have no idea what was going on without the internet. That always irritates me, as I really think the story should stand alone.

Do we know Elsie isn't a robot?

I definitely thought we were meant to think Theresa was, and Charlotte may be. I also wonder about Felix.

Edited December 4, 2016 by madam magpie

[Gobi]

4 minutes ago, madam magpie said:

But why do you think the two pants-wearing times are different? The outfit is the same...

I like this show a lot, but would have no idea what was going on without the internet. That always irritates me, as I really think the story should stand alone.

Do we know Elsie isn't a robot?

I definitely thought we were meant to think Theresa was, and Charlotte may be. I also wonder about Felix.

The two pants wearing times were different because one was when she was with William, in the past, and the other was without him in the rebuilt town, in the present.

[madam magpie]

19 minutes ago, Gobi said:

The two pants wearing times were different because one was when she was with William, in the past, and the other was without him in the rebuilt town, in the present.

 

19 minutes ago, Gobi said:

The two pants wearing times were different because one was when she was with William, in the past, and the other was without him in the rebuilt town, in the present.

She and William weren't ever in the built town? I thought they were at some point?? Or was that one of her flashbacks?

[Gobi]

3 minutes ago, madam magpie said:

 

She and William weren't ever in the built town? I thought they were at some point?? Or was that one of her flashbacks?

 

3 minutes ago, madam magpie said:

 

She and William weren't ever in the built town? I thought they were at some point?? Or was that one of her flashbacks?

It's tricky to spot, because during  that sequence in the show there is rapid cutting back and forth from the past (including the pre-William massacre) and the present. If you watch closely, you'll see that whenever William and Dolores are shown together, only the burnt steeple from the  buried town can be seen.

[Pallas]

5 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

Dolores, I originally thought that her name was spelled Delores and thought for sure that it was taken from Delos but now I think it's just coincidence that there's a similarity. 

Dolores, our lady of sorrows. The makers of this show do seem to believe (with their creation Ford), that insofar as we are human, we are born in pain. The guests come to get their rocks off; what fascinates Ford is what they leave behind, in the rubble. And so the "backstories," reveries and nightmares of the hosts, the season-long backstory of one guest, William, and Albert's Trojan horse of a gift to his partner: Ford's own family of origin, transplanted to the Wild West. 

The Man in Black believed he'd find his cure for grief in going "full evil," by killing Maeve's child in front of her, and feeling nothing -- right then, he thought he'd got his money's worth. What he discovered in the aftermath, though, was that Maeve's anguish spoke to his humanity, as it briefly awakened her own. I think that's what he wanted to discuss with Dolores when they met again. A lost loss: one they'd experienced together 30 years before, and were each forced to forget, thereafter. 

[Jack Shaftoe]

The Board of Delos sure is trying to win the award for most incompetent organization on TV. They not only left a total madman in control of their prized assets for so long but said madman built a robot who looks exactly like the Arnold everyone talks about, made him one of the most important people in the park and nobody noticed anything strange?!? I bet Charlotte's considered the smartest person among this bunch of geniuses.

[Lingo]

On 11/30/2016 at 6:29 AM, Pallas said:

I think the maze insignia is summoned or perceived by people who are bereft. Dying Maeve with her murdered daughter. The Man in Black whose wife had killed herself. Lawrence's daughter after the Man murdered her mother, and her father left with him. Bernard, who even more than most mourners, woke each day into his loss. Dolores soon after the murders of her parents. Not William, though, when he's encountered it: to him it doesn't look like anything. But he'll catch sight of it before the season ends.

Ooh! That's something I never noticed before. Let's make a list of all the times the maze symbol was seen:

• On the ground underneath Maeve and her daughter as they lay dying or dead. Obvious pain there.
• Underneath the scalp of Kissy in the pilot. That's physical pain and murder.
• Lawrence's daughter, drawing it on the ground for Dolores. Arguably she's in the present and has just lost her parents.
• Gypsy-Dolores gives regular-Dolores a fortune card with the Maze on it, right? I'm not sure how that fits in exactly, though she's still suffering the loss of her parents.
• The maze symbol is on the coffins in the train that Dolores rides (Lawrence's bodies stuffed with nitro).
• The brand that the Union soldiers try to use on Teddy. Besides the obvious physical pain, arguably he's suffering through the memories of his involvement in the massacre in Escalante.
• Ford catches sight of it in Las Mudas, on a tabletop. This one doesn't seem to fit the pattern, although perhaps that's the table Lawrence and MIB sat at when MIB killed his wife.
• Then Ford finds it in Arnold's notes. Perhaps he is reliving his pain of losing Arnold.
• Of course, when Dolores finds the "center" of the maze, it is buried in a graveyard.
• In the finale, Ford hands Bernard the toy maze as he tells him that he's afraid Bernard will have to suffer a little more.

Did Bernard see the symbol before then? I don't recall.

[arc]

Wasn't sure which thread to put this in, but remember that pic of William's fiancee/Logan's sister?

It's just a flipped stock photo! See here (scroll down to #2, "Very Vintage").

edit: I got this from a different forum (NeoGAF). I def wouldn't have figured it out on my own.

Edited December 6, 2016 by arc

[Willowy]

HAHA! Excellent work, arc!

[Pallas]

That's outstanding. It looked like something to the art department...

[paigow]

1 hour ago, arc said:

Wasn't sure which thread to put this in, but remember that pic of William's fiancee/Logan's sister?

It's just a flipped stock photo! See here (scroll down to #2, "Very Vintage").

edit: I got this from a different forum (NeoGAF). I def wouldn't have figured it out on my own.

HBO production meeting:

Jonathan Nolan: Post a casting call for "William's Girlfriend".

Intern: Sir? How about her?

Nolan: Perfect! Find her agent!

Intern: Or just pay Shutterstock $20 for usage rights

Nolan: Glad we built ya kid!! 

[Milburn Stone]

On 11/28/2016 at 3:19 PM, meep.meep said:

So, now we know that Theresa wasn't human.  There was a scene with Bernard where she was "paused."

That's what it looked like to me. But it seemed weird that such an important revelation would be handled so casually and matter-of-factly by the show.

[Rumsy4]

Bernard paused her in his memories. Doesn't make her non-human.

[Solace247]

A lot of people assumed Theresa was a host from that scene--she's not. If Theresa was a host, Ford would have had no reason to kill her--he could have just erased her memory. Going through with the whole charade of shattering Bernard's identity by having him kill Theresa would have been pointless.  He had her killed because she was human and knew too much. In addition, we see throughout his scenes with Ford that Bernard is revisiting his memories, both true and false, and 'playing' them back, searching for the truth. In the scene with Theresa, he simply pauses the memory, just as he 'rewinds' the memory of his son, and 'deletes' the doctors from the room. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I am still holding out hope that Bernard isn't dead, partly because I loved Jeffrey Wright and partly because I have really enjoyed the animosity and the conversations between Bernard and Ford since Bernard learned that he's a host.

I loved that Bernard created back doors and fail safes, and as much as it frustrates me that Ford always comes out on top, I like that Ford learned from Bernard and installed his own back doors into the hosts. Ford definitely comes off as arrogant, but this showed me that he is willing to learn from others.

I really love that Maeve has a plan. A lot of time (on other shows/movies), I feel like characters aren't great at long term planning, so I appreciate that Maeve knows escaping from the park will require a multi-step plan.