S03.E09: Who's Dead?

[Joimiaroxeu]

Alfred Enoch was in most of the Harry Potter movies and I think a decent portion  Wendy's audience skews toward the young side. I'd be surprised if a significant number of them were shocked by his British accent because they've probably seen him in at least one of the movies. In fact, I'd bet his familiarity from the HP films is what helped him get the Wes role. His character's shocking death on HTGAWM will probably end up helping his career.

I still don't understand why they didn't kill off Frank. How does he continue to be a viable character after he's murdered so many people? He'll be like Scandal's Huck accept hotter and without the government-sanctioned license to kill.

Edited November 20, 2016 by Joimiaroxeu

[Milaxx]

I must watch way too much BBC  I knew about Idris and Lenny. Andrew I remembered was the guy with the crush on Kiera Knightly in Love  Actually . 

As for Viola, she's Juliard trained & a method actress. One of the things love about her is her ability to completely dissolve into her character. 

Overall I think this was a fantastic winter finale & a great season so far. It caught many viewers off guard and opens the show up for many new storylines.  I like AK's clinic because it still gives us a COTW without pulling the K5 away from being students too much.  I wonder if we'll get to see the funeral for Wes. For that matter will we see his foster family.  Guess I'll hop over to the speculation  thread .

[starri]

46 minutes ago, Tiger said:

Anyway, to bring it back on-topic, to me it sounds like Jack Falahee has a great lakes accent in real life that Connor doesnt have on the show

Which is weird, because isn't Connor from Michigan?

[Milaxx]

6 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I still don't understand why they didn't kill off Frank. How does he continue to be a viable character after he's murdered so many people? He'll be like Scandal's Huck accept hotter and without the government-sanctioned license to kill.

On tv killers get to live all the time. If we're talking Scandal, half that cast has killed; Olivia, Fitz, Huck & Jake all dropped bodies.

On a show actually called How to Get Away with Murder it's practically a requirement.

Edited November 20, 2016 by Milaxx

[Tiger]

7 minutes ago, Milaxx said:

On tv killers get to look to live all the time. If we're talking Scandal, half that cast has killed; Olivia, Fitz, Huck & Jake all dropped bodies.

On a show actually called How to Get Away with Murder it's practically a requirement.

Thus far, that we know of, Annalise, Laurel, Connor, and Michaela are the only non-murderer regulars.  

And two of them could be added to the Murderer list if one of them killed Wes, and/or if the murder Connor told Amy Madigan was real about him having killed someone pre-show.  

Heck, I remember joking during the first season that by the time the show endes Annalise would be the only one who hadnt killed someone.

[jsbt]

I knew from the moment I saw Annalise break down over the corpse in the premiere that it was Wes. She wouldn't react to anyone but him, Eve, Bonnie or Frank like that (Nate is a stretch, IMO). Frank was too obvious and Bonnie was clearly not being positioned for that in story. Everything was spinning around take care of Wes, what will Wes do, what about Wes and Laurel, they're so in love from the beginning of the season - as that built up every week it was obvious they'd run him through his course and were going to take him out to throw everything off. I knew I had reason not to trust that flash-forward the other week. Frank or Nate just wasn't big enough.

I also didn't think he had much further to go as a character - he was the pure symbol for Annalise who was always just outside her ethics on some level. With him gone the brakes come off.

As for who killed him? Frankly, my first thought was Laurel. He's going to flip on Annalise and that means they all go down. She loves him but she doesn't want to go to jail. Maybe it was an accident, just like Sam. It'll get blamed on the Mahoneys but it was someone much closer. Frank, Nate or the Mahoneys is not big enough game for this show (just as they weren't big enough game for who was #underthesheet), and Frank already killed Lila. It's someone inside and I think it's Laurel.

Edited November 20, 2016 by jsbt

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

Olivia, Fitz, Huck & Jake all dropped bodies.

But there are backstories to explain what they did (and all roads pretty much lead back to Papa Pope). All we know about Frank is that he seems to like killing people, especially if someone else gives him an excuse.

Quote

Frank or Nate just wasn't big enough.

Yes. Plus I don't think AK would've reacted so strongly to either of their deaths. She hates Frank and Nate's never been more than a fcuk buddy and a tool she could use as needed.

[jsbt]

I think she loves Frank on a similar level to Bonnie, which is part of why she also hates him so much now. I think she cares a lot for Nate but we saw how far that went this season (I also thought their break-up was one of this show's occasional super-rushed developments that they speed along for plot; I had expected it to percolate til around this week). Wes, Eve, Bonnie and Frank go bone-deep for her because of the history.

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, jsbt said:

knew from the moment I saw Annalise break down over the corpse in the premiere that it was Wes.

And it would have been a major hint...if the showrunner already didn't confirm that he had no idea who was going to be under the sheet until episode 7. So as nice as it was to foreshadow that, it was 100% unintentional.

[muessigkeit]

54 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

And it would have been a major hint...if the showrunner already didn't confirm that he had no idea who was going to be under the sheet until episode 7. So as nice as it was to foreshadow that, it was 100% unintentional.

People always say that as if Pete doesn't watch his own damn show. Yes, he didn't know who would be under the sheet when he wrote that scene for Viola, but he sure as hell took how Viola played it into account when he finally made the decision. There are 2 ways to write a story: The show runner plans out everything from the beginning and then makes sure that the actors play the scenes to match what they (as in the show runner) has in mind for later OR the show runner leaves things up to interpretation for the actors and then makes sure that the actors' interpretation matches the story. Annalise's reaction to the corpse left 2 options: A) If it's genuine, it has to be someone she would get that upset over or B) If it's not genuine, then it has to be an act and she needs to have a reason for that act. Pete chose the first option and he made it work. That's really all there is to writing: providing the context to make something work.

Edited November 20, 2016 by muessigkeit

[starri]

Or they're being less than truthful when they say those things.  I find it hard to believe they wouldn't have told Alfred he was out of a job until most of the first half of the season was in the can.

[DearEvette]

The timeline on this show is so fractured it is hard to follow everything.

But... there are three distinct time stamps shown on in this episode:

1 - Wes getting his 'Come to the house immediately" message from Annalise at 4:22 pm

2 - Laurel showing up at the house at 10: 12 pm

3 - Nate going to the coroner's at 2:59 am

All the other scenes-- Annalise calling everyone, Annalise going to Oliver, Bonnie and Frank's talk, Nate going into Analise's house are shown in such a way that would presume that all those things happened in the order they were shown and in a  fairly truncated period of time, but there is a clear 6 hour difference between Annalise's message to Wes and Laurel showing up.  Since Analise actually spoke to Laurel  (did not leave a message) it isn't a case of Laurel not getting the message 6 hours later.   You can't tell me it took Laurel six hours to get to Analise's house.

So what happened between 4:22 and 10:12 pm.

I think Wes did go to Analise's house right away.  So it makes me wonder.. did Oliver's hacking of the DA's computer happen before Bonnie and Nate's conversation and not after as the scene order suggested?  If so, then it might not be Mahoney who killed Wes, but Bonnie and Frank.  There is a line Bonnie said to Frank "I want us all to be safe." which makes my Spidey senses tingle.  If Oliver's hack revealed Wes' immunity agreement then I think that would be a motive for Bonnie and Frank -- the two people outside of Wes (who is getting immunity) who actually killed someone to be nervous.  And we know Bonnie and Frank aren't big fans of Wes' since he is somewhat usurping their role with Analise.

But then that leaves the question on who the "anonymous" source is?  Oliver is the one best positioned to be a source with information especially since it is a possibility we didn't hear his entire conversation with Annalise and her insistence on wiping the phone is highlighted in several episodes. Also we see him kicking the phone under the ambulance.  Why? 

Even though Wes is dead, I still don't think we are in the clear with another regular cast member possibly being on the hook for his death and maybe being off the show by the end the season finale.

ETA: Just realized, Analise didn't call everyone.  She only called Wes & Laurel to come to the house.  Laurel told Asher that Analise needs them at the house  But there is no scene of her calling Asher.  And the only call Connor got was from Oliver after the fire, otherwise Trishelle would had fished his phone out of the cushions earlier.  And Michaela told us she never got a call from Analise.  So yeah... Analise planned something with Wes and Laurel that went awry because someone else blew up the house.

Edited November 20, 2016 by DearEvette

[Lady Calypso]

24 minutes ago, muessigkeit said:

People always say that as if Pete doesn't watch his own damn show. Yes, he didn't know who would be under the sheet when he wrote that scene for Viola, but he sure as hell took how Viola played it into account when he finally made the decision. There are 2 ways to write a story: The show runner plans out everything from the beginning and then makes sure that the actors play the scenes to match what they (as in the show runner) has in mind for later OR the show runner leaves things up to interpretation for the actors and then makes sure that the actors' interpretation matches the story. Annalise's reaction to the corpse left 2 options: A) If it's genuine, it has to be someone she would get that upset over or B) If it's not genuine, then it has to be an act and she needs to have a reason for that act. Pete chose the first option and he made it work. That's really all there is to writing: providing the context to make something work.

I totally get this. I realize that at least have their ideas on who could be under the sheet. Even Pete said that he didn't want to accept that it would be Wes until episode 6 or so. I was just responding to the post about how they were sure it was Wes from the premiere, when Pete wasn't even sure then. If it had been Connor under the sheet, then option B probably would have been applicable, but it would be harder to argue that anyone knew it was Connor by Annalise's reaction in the premiere. 

[Tiger]

35 minutes ago, starri said:

Or they're being less than truthful when they say those things.  I find it hard to believe they wouldn't have told Alfred he was out of a job until most of the first half of the season was in the can.

As I said elsewhere, I have a veey hard beleiving at least that Davis and Nowalk didnt know who was #UnderTheSheet prior to taping the first ep.  

And just to be clear, I am not calling them liars and even if I was I wouldnt criticize them for doing so.  Their jobs as Executive Producer and star/producer are to get people to watch and talk about the show, and it wouldnt be the first time producers and stars misled their audiance. IIRC, Game of Thrones' Kit Harrington and House of Cards' Kate Mara both used social media to deliberatly make people think their characters were definitely dead and alive, respectively.  

[Lady Calypso]

4 minutes ago, Tiger said:

As I said elsewhere, I have a veey hard beleiving at least that Davis and Nowalk didnt know who was #UnderTheSheet prior to taping the first ep.  

And just to be clear, I am not calling them liars and even if I was I wouldnt criticize them for doing so.  Their jobs as Executive Producer and star/producer are to get people to watch and talk about the show, and it wouldnt be the first time producers and stars misled their audiance. IIRC, Game of Thrones' Kit Harrington and House of Cards' Kate Mara both used social media to deliberatly make people think their characters were definitely dead and alive, respectively.  

I just don't get why they would lie about not knowing who was under the sheet until episode 7. It's just a weird thing to lie/mislead the fans about. What would be so bad about the saying that they knew?

What I could believe is that they had their choices from the get-go and Wes was the one of few on that list. If they said that, then I'd be ok. But the fact that Pete deliberately said that he didn't know was probably not the right thing to say in an interview like that. 

[starri]

5 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I just don't get why they would lie about not knowing who was under the sheet until episode 7. It's just a weird thing to lie/mislead the fans about. What would be so bad about the saying that they knew?

I think it creates more suspense.  "It could be literally anybody!"  I may very well be wrong, but if they didn't at least go into the season knowing which characters were definitely safe and which weren't, I'd be very surprised.  Because if nothing else, they had to film all those flashback scenes outside Keating Manor at once, so they had to have already known it wouldn't be Oliver or Bonnie.

[Milaxx]

1 hour ago, starri said:

Or they're being less than truthful when they say those things.  I find it hard to believe they wouldn't have told Alfred he was out of a job until most of the first half of the season was in the can.

It happens more often than you imagine. I've heard countless stories of actors showing up for table reads checking their script to see if they live. I've also heard actors getting the dreaded call from the showrunner mere weeks beforehand that they know is to let them know their character will be dying. I don't think it's done to be cruel. I think it's done to ensure the actor doesn't let that knowledge seep into their perform and also to prevent any spoilers being leaked.

@DearEvette - I like your entire post. I could easily see something like that happening. Like the K5 Bonnie also blames Wes and his obsession with Rebecca for a lot of their issues. Bonnie is also very protective of AK. She killed Rebecca because she perceived her as a threat. Bonnie also loves Frank and views him as family. A determined Bonnie can be a very dangerous thing.

[irisheyes]

If I remember correctly, Aaron Sorkin didn't tell the actors they were killing off Mrs. Landingham until the day they filmed the scene.  #RIP

I was one who was shocked it was Wes.  I was pretty convinced the whole episode it was Nate, though looking back, it was obvious that it's what the writer wanted me to believe. I fall into these traps all the freakin' time. 

 

January 19th cannot come soon enough!

[jsbt]

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

And it would have been a major hint...if the showrunner already didn't confirm that he had no idea who was going to be under the sheet until episode 7. So as nice as it was to foreshadow that, it was 100% unintentional.

I'm aware. It's still how I read it. I think given what they wrote for the premiere Wes buying it was likely floating in their minds from the beginning, even if they hadn't settled on it. You don't write that reaction for just anyone.

Edited November 20, 2016 by jsbt

[Milaxx]

3 hours ago, Tiger said:

And two of them could be added to the Murderer list if one of them killed Wes, and/or if the murder Connor told Amy Madigan was real about him having killed someone pre-show.  

Connor was talking about Sam. Even though Wes dealt the lethal blow in a court of law all of the K5 that were in the house that night could be charged as responsible for Sam's death. 

[Aquarius97]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

ETA: Just realized, Analise didn't call everyone.  She only called Wes & Laurel to come to the house.  Laurel told Asher that Analise needs them at the house  But there is no scene of her calling Asher.  And the only call Connor got was from Oliver after the fire, otherwise Trishelle would had fished his phone out of the cushions earlier.  And Michaela told us she never got a call from Analise.  So yeah... Analise planned something with Wes and Laurel that went awry because someone else blew up the house.

 

Annalise tells Laurel to reunite the K5 in their house, not only Laurel

Edited November 20, 2016 by Aquarius97

[Bsmith]

So I watched episode 9 again and here's a couple things I got from it. 

1. The camera zoomed in on Asher putting connors phone behind the pillow in michaelas house. So how did he know about anything ? Where was he? Where did he go after he hooked up with olivers old dude. 

2. Annalise saw Wes's body, obviously bc they showed her breaking down. She also saw laurels body. BUT. After Oliver erased the info on the phone. He came back to the house to drop the phone at the scene where he met up with Bonnie. THEN the fire man said everybody quiet !!! (Remember Annalise has already been handcuffed and she's in jail) there's another body. A male. There was a 3rd body !! Inside the house. Has to be. 

[Black Knight]

On 11/18/2016 at 8:04 PM, Milaxx said:

I didn't read that scene as Bonnie setting Wes up. That's the sort of housekeeping, caretaking she always does for Annalise.

No, I didn't mean that Bonnie was setting Wes up back when she recommended the lawyer (I agree it was just her standard housekeeping) - what I meant is because she knows his lawyer, she got his lawyer for him, he very possibly called her after Wes fired him. Which means that before Wes died Bonnie might have already known/suspected that he was working a deal where he'd turn on Annalise in exchange for immunity, or that the police were talking to Wes about Rebecca's murder, or both. Either one of those things gives her a strong motive to kill Wes, and that's why she looks like the top suspect right now.

[jsbt]

I tend to think each murderer (for key murders, that is; not counting Caleb) on the show is different and that's a little unofficial rule they seem to be sticking to. Maybe I'm missing one? Wes killed Sam, Frank killed Lila on Sam's orders, Bonnie killed Rebecca, Asher killed whatserface. I don't think they'd do a repeat on Bonnie. My case for Laurel is in the spec thread.

[Aquarius97]

6 minutes ago, Bsmith said:

So I watched episode 9 again and here's a couple things I got from it. 

1. The camera zoomed in on Asher putting connors phone behind the pillow in michaelas house. So how did he know about anything ? Where was he? Where did he go after he hooked up with olivers old dude. 

2. Annalise saw Wes's body, obviously bc they showed her breaking down. She also saw laurels body. BUT. After Oliver erased the info on the phone. He came back to the house to drop the phone at the scene where he met up with Bonnie. THEN the fire man said everybody quiet !!! (Remember Annalise has already been handcuffed and she's in jail) there's another body. A male. There was a 3rd body !! Inside the house. Has to be. 

Annalise didn't see Laurel. The "another body" was Laurel

[Htgawmtheorist]

14 minutes ago, Bsmith said:

So I watched episode 9 again and here's a couple things I got from it. 

1. The camera zoomed in on Asher putting connors phone behind the pillow in michaelas house. So how did he know about anything ? Where was he? Where did he go after he hooked up with olivers old dude. 

2. Annalise saw Wes's body, obviously bc they showed her breaking down. She also saw laurels body. BUT. After Oliver erased the info on the phone. He came back to the house to drop the phone at the scene where he met up with Bonnie. THEN the fire man said everybody quiet !!! (Remember Annalise has already been handcuffed and she's in jail) there's another body. A male. There was a 3rd body !! Inside the house. Has to be. 

This makes know since

[starri]

17 minutes ago, Bsmith said:

1. The camera zoomed in on Asher putting connors phone behind the pillow in michaelas house. So how did he know about anything ? Where was he? Where did he go after he hooked up with olivers old dude. 

Could he have gone back and retrieved it?

[DearEvette]

Need to clear the conspiracy stuff out of my head so here are some other thoughts on the ep:

- I hope their midterm grades weren't just based on their Ted Bundy arguments because just from the snippets I heard I would not have been convinced.  Also, outside of Laurel's automatic 'A' it is realistic that Michaela seems to have gotten the highest grade mentioned with a 96 since she seems to be the only person who is shown to be concerned about studying.

- What is it with the ADA's obsession with Analise?  If she returns after the break I am going to believe she is the next body dropping especially since Nate broke up wither.  SIngle Black Female indeed.  I will say up til now her twist-out has been on point.  But this episode her hair looked terrible, like a wig really.  I head-wank that Mary J. Blige fucked up her hair because she did not like the vibe she was bringing.  LOL.

- The Michaela storyline with her mother was so infuriating.  I was totally on Michaela's side in this.  Aja Naomi King was great in that scene, I could feel her frustration and shame and anger and just...ugh!  I was so pissed at Asher on her behalf.

- Obviously Laurel has no clue she's pregnant.  She's shown to be drinking champagne and shots. This would suggest the kid is Wes' since wouldn't her last time with Frank have been long enough for her to suspect?

[Lady Calypso]

2 minutes ago, starri said:

Could he have gone back and retrieved it?

Maybe, but it definitely would have been after Michaela left. I think it's more than likely that Connor either heard it from the news, or he was part of the Night of the Fire. I think Connor will definitely have ended up with Wes during that night at one point, only because his whereabouts besides sleeping with Thomas was so ambiguous that I doubt the show will pass up the opportunity to make Connor a suspect.

[truthaboutluv]

Quote

Also we see him kicking the phone under the ambulance.  Why? 

I think that was just done to ensure the police find the phone when they return to the scene. They show us Annalise being asked about her phone in booking and she says it probably fell. The police investigators are probably suspicious that her phone has something, which was true and she's hiding it. So they will look for it and it being where the ambulance was would make it believable that it fell when she was screaming and crying or later getting arrested. 

[Milaxx]

53 minutes ago, Aquarius97 said:

Annalise didn't see Laurel. The "another body" was Laurel

THIS. There's only 2 body's the second one with a pulse was Laurel.

 

42 minutes ago, starri said:

Could he have gone back and retrieved it?

He doesn't unless it was after hooking up with Thomas. Michaela's mom finds it when it vibrates in the couch where she's sitting. So Connor would have left Thomas, went to Michaela's retrieved his phone from Trishelle and then gone to the hospital. Possible, but we don't know for sure.

 

39 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

The Michaela storyline with her mother was so infuriating.  I was totally on Michaela's side in this.  Aja Naomi King was great in that scene, I could feel her frustration and shame and anger and just...ugh!  I was so pissed at Asher on her behalf.

When Asher tells her what he tell and she's standing there fuming mad at Asher and drunk Connor says, "Are you having a stroke?" I crack up laughing every time.

Edited November 20, 2016 by Milaxx

[jsbt]

Listen, I'm just happy to see Brett Butler out of the gutter. I have no idea what she's been up to all these years but I am assuming most of her haggard appearance was for the character. They sure made poor Amy Madigan look raw as hell a few weeks ago.

[Milaxx]

It wouldn't be that hard for hair and make up to go minimal and even make them look more haggard than normal to show the ravages of hard living on their bodies.

Edited November 20, 2016 by Milaxx

[jhlipton]

Wrote is different from filmed.  Novak could have written up through Episode 7 before filming started on Episode 1.  In fact, considering all the flashbacks and flashforwards. I expect that the whole half-season is written before they start filming.

Also, the  Checkov's Vodka was a misdirect.  They made a point of showing it -- even a pool heading toward the fire -- but the entire first floor went up at once, like if kerosene had been poured along the floor.  No way that exploding vodka did that.

On 11/17/2016 at 11:53 PM, jvr said:

Besides that, that Bonnie and Anna kiss...was that the first time they have kissed do we think? Any other hanky panky before? lol I know others have speculated about their relationship and what kind of love Bonnie has for Anna previously. Most seemed to fall on obsessed but not romantic love.

There's not been any hanky-panky before and, in my opinion, there wasn't this time.  Annalise waqs too drunk to know or care who she was kissing and Bonnie pulled back from the kiss as soon as she could.

 

On 11/18/2016 at 4:48 AM, dr pepper said:

I was disappointed that Analise did not actually destroy the immunity idol, i'm sure someone will dig it out of the ashes and claim a free A. That's how this class works, right?

I will give them 10,000 points if Wes was killed by the immunity idol (LOL).

5 hours ago, Tiger said:

Thus far, that we know of, Annalise, Laurel, Connor, and Michaela are the only non-murderer regulars. 

Michaela hip-checked Sam over the railing and thought that she had killed him. Does that count?

[Keepitmoving]

By the way, there were some funny moments for me like Connor shouting to Laurel "Castillo, Vamanos!" when they left to go rush up on Michaela and her mom. 

And Michaela's mother lying about cancer since an episode or two ago Asher was going on to Michaela that maybe her mother just wanted to say goodbye because she was dying of cancer, right.

Michaela staring at Oliver's and his dorky DJ skills, of which he has none. 

Anna referring to DA Atwood as "girl" her tone was so real, I cracked up. That scene was awesome. Atwood="Single Black Female" end of story. I take she's going to end up on a stretcher next season, because if she keeps going after Anna, I'll be ready for her to.

Quote

The Michaela storyline with her mother was so infuriating.  I was totally on Michaela's side in this.  Aja Naomi King was great in that scene, I could feel her frustration and shame and anger and just...ugh!  I was so pissed at Asher on her behalf.

I just don't want her grades to start falling because of the stress of whatever her mother is up to. I will say at the same time how depressing her mother's background is, she's jealous of Michaela, because Michaela got out. Now that she's older, she wants out too before it's too late, maybe that feeling is genuine, you never know with her. That feeling of a woman's life wasted, thinking you could have done more with yourself, but damn, you don't even have your own bank account.

Well, at least now one sees why Michaela takes in strays, they can bust up her apartment, break glasses and coffee tables and she doesn't flinch. It's what she knows, and can't get away from no matter how hard she tries. She was doing well there for a moment before her wet behind the ears boyfriend started to inject his own maternal issues onto Michaela. Just because your mother disowned you for the time being anyway, and you wish you were back in her good graces because she was a decent mother, is not everyone's story Asher. When he mumbled "I'm so sorry..." to Michaela and she said save it, I died laughing and then rolled my eyes at the same time. Oh Asher, boy do you still have plenty to learn about life. Maybe this story line with Mickie's mother is more about his growing up than anything else, that is if Michaela still keeps him around. All signs point to her doing so, she sure did run over to his dorm to check on him. Let's see if he can be there for her, it doesn't look good because he just doesn't get it and keeps projecting. That was one of her hesitations in getting into anything serious with him, she said that she was tired of having to be there for these guys yet they always screw her over, they don't come through. He's there living off of her, eating her damn food, getting his little and big head rubbed and what is he offering other than a "double"? Because that's gonna get old as things get tougher.  Because I can now honestly say that Michaela is truly a woman and she needs a man, not a boyfriend, not a boy because I don't think she's ever lived a life of a girl. She's never been some little girl, she's never had that chance.  So Asher better grow up quick.

11 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

\

Michaela hip-checked Sam over the railing and thought that she had killed him. Does that count?

No because it was self -defense and he was very much alive to proceed to almost choking the life out of Rebecca. He's dead by Wes's hands only, the fact that he was pushed doesn't matter because he didn't die from that push.

Edited November 20, 2016 by Keepitmoving

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, jhlipton said:

Wrote is different from filmed.  Novak could have written up through Episode 7 before filming started on Episode 1.  In fact, considering all the flashbacks and flashforwards. I expect that the whole half-season is written before they start filming.

 

From what I understand about the television process, and I think it includes this show as well, they usually don't write episodes all at once before filming it. There are some scenes which I imagine are filmed ahead like flashbacks/flashforwards. I agree that some of it has to be pre-planned. I'm rereading most of Nowalk's interviews. I think this interview he did with TVLine says a lot:

Quote

TVLINE | A one-word answer — hard to misinterpret. Did you know going into Season 3 that Wes would die? And if not, when did you come to the decision?
No, I did not know at the beginning of the season. I knew someone would be under the sheet — that was a decision we made the first day in the writers’ room. “Oh, that’s a fun little mystery!” As it went on, I got pains in my stomach as I realized what we’d promised the audience...

.....

We considered every option, ever character, and the poor actors realized that discussion was happening while they still had to do their jobs every day. It wasn’t easy. Episode 7 was when I thought, “Ugh, I really have to decide this.” 

So, I mean, it would be really sucky if he was lying. It would actually make him look better if he had pre-planned it. But this particular interview makes it clear that filming was going on way before they decided who was under the sheet. Again, I find it worse that they didn't make a decision or seemingly had a clue until they were well into the season. Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather have the showrunners go into a season with at least a concrete idea of what they want, who the possible victims/suspects are, how that'll impact the season, etc. This makes it seem like their first priority was a mystery and a twist. Their second priority was having the mystery work with the season and the overall show. Luckily, it made some sense for Wes to be under the sheet, but them not having that character at least planned to possibly be under the sheet before the premiere was filmed is rather sloppy for me. It's how some shows get in trouble. 

[Milaxx]

8 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

But there are backstories to explain what they did (and all roads pretty much lead back to Papa Pope). All we know about Frank is that he seems to like killing people, especially if someone else gives him an excuse.

Frank has killed in out of a twisted since of obligation. Lila was order by Sam as payback for baby Sam. Wallace Mahoney was his twisted way of obtaining retribution for baby Sam. He killed Bonnie's father as a twisted way of apologizing to her for getting Wes involved in the whole Mahoney mess. He's not killing random folks on the street.

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

but them not having that character at least planned to possibly be under the sheet before the premiere was filmed is rather sloppy for me. It's how some shows get in trouble. 

It's not an unusual writing technique at least not for tv. Vince Gilligan (Breaking Bad) often said they deliberately wrote themselves into a corner and then had to figure a way out.  As @muessigkeit pointed out there are different styles used by showrunners. On one hand you have the meticulously detailed like a Sam Esmail, and on the other hand you have those like Pete Nowalk who have more of an outline with an endgame in sight and figure it out as the story unfolds. Neither is more right or wrong, it's just different styles.

[KaveDweller]

5 hours ago, Milaxx said:

He doesn't unless it was after hooking up with Thomas. Michaela's mom finds it when it vibrates in the couch where she's sitting. So Connor would have left Thomas, went to Michaela's retrieved his phone from Trishelle and then gone to the hospital. Possible, but we don't know for sure.

Definitely possible. If he went back to get his phone Trishelle would have told him about Oliver calling looking for him and the fire, it makes sense that he went to the hospital. The other option is that he heard it on the news, but where would he have been watching the news? He and Thomas certainly seems busy with other activities. Or he started the fire. I don't think we know what time it was when we saw him with Thomas versus everyone else at the hospital.

[secnarf]

7 hours ago, Bsmith said:

2. Annalise saw Wes's body, obviously bc they showed her breaking down. She also saw laurels body. BUT. After Oliver erased the info on the phone. He came back to the house to drop the phone at the scene where he met up with Bonnie. THEN the fire man said everybody quiet !!! (Remember Annalise has already been handcuffed and she's in jail) there's another body. A male. There was a 3rd body !! Inside the house. Has to be. 

Annalise never saw Laurel's body. Bonnie tells Annalise about Laurel. The firemen never said anything about the gender of the other person inside, only that they were in the basement and had a pulse.

6 hours ago, DearEvette said:

- Obviously Laurel has no clue she's pregnant.  She's shown to be drinking champagne and shots. This would suggest the kid is Wes' since wouldn't her last time with Frank have been long enough for her to suspect?

Well, that depends when her last time with Frank was. She'd either be a couple months in or ~1 week. If she was only a week in they probably couldn't detect it on a blood test but who knows how accurate the show will be.

[possibilities]

Bonnie would not kill Wes and leave his body in the house. She wasn't trying to cast suspicion on Annalise, she was trying to keep "everyone" safe. I don't think Bonnie's the killer in this instance.

[Ireland77]

On 11/19/2016 at 0:40 PM, truthaboutluv said:

The fact is Connor, for example, did end up at that house that night because Wes was adamant that Sam was guilty and Rebecca was in danger. They were genuinely trying to help and then Sam ends up dead. 

Sam died because he tried to murder Rebecca.  

[helenamonster]

On 11/18/2016 at 10:58 PM, vanarnd1 said:

And a small aside, the music when Nate and Laurel entered the house was the creepiest and most ominous I remember hearing in recent memory. This show really is a emotional roller coaster ride that is unmatched by anything else on TV right now.

The song was "Surrender" by IAMX. HTGAWM uses their music a lot, and their whole discography really reflects the mood of the show, imo.

On 11/19/2016 at 3:23 AM, FiveByFive said:

I don't think he's gone from the show, however, only because even Rebecca kept appearing for the rest of the season she was on long after she died. So I expect to see the last of him at the end of this season.

Rebecca died in the season one finale, and only showed up one more time in the season two premiere so that we could see that Bonnie was the one who killed her. However, since Wes is a more important character and his death seems much more complicated than Rebecca's, I agree that we will be seeing him a lot in the second half of the season, possibly every episode.

On 11/19/2016 at 3:01 PM, nutty1 said:

I watched "Wes" on Jimmy Kimmel. I was blown away.....am I the only one who did not know he was British?? He seemed like a totally different person!

I think most of us who did know he was British before the show only knew so because we're massive Harry Potter fans...Dean is a tertiary character who only shows up in I think three of the movies and doesn't affect the plot at all (except to provide Harry with some Ginny angst in Half-Blood Prince), but when Alfie showed up here there was a lot of "Oh my God, Dean Thomas!" posts.

[truthaboutluv]

7 hours ago, Ireland77 said:

Sam died because he tried to murder Rebecca.  

Yes, I'm aware. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

He's not killing random folks on the street.

That doesn't make it any better. AFAIC, he's a serial killer. I'm not sure I want to see the writers do some plot gymnastics to make it okay for him to remain regular character. Actually, I'm hoping he is in fact the one who killed Wes because after everything else he's done, I don't think character could survive that.

[jhlipton]

16 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

It would actually make him look better if he had pre-planned it. But this particular interview makes it clear that filming was going on way before they decided who was under the sheet. Again, I find it worse that they didn't make a decision or seemingly had a clue until they were well into the season. Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather have the showrunners go into a season with at least a concrete idea of what they want, who the possible victims/suspects are, how that'll impact the season, etc. This makes it seem like their first priority was a mystery and a twist. 

14 hours ago, Milaxx said:

It's not an unusual writing technique at least not for tv. Vince Gilligan (Breaking Bad) often said they deliberately wrote themselves into a corner and then had to figure a way out.  As @muessigkeit pointed out there are different styles used by showrunners. On one hand you have the meticulously detailed like a Sam Esmail, and on the other hand you have those like Pete Nowalk who have more of an outline with an endgame in sight and figure it out as the story unfolds. Neither is more right or wrong, it's just different styles.

Thanks for the clarification, Lady Calypso. Writing a full season means that you have all your plot points, you can double-check for plot holes, etc.  But writing by episode means you can deal more easily with things like an actor leaving (for any number of reasons) or a character being more or less popular than you thought.  So I can see the benefit of both.  Here, I think they were lucky that it worked out OK, but these are good writers.  Over on Once Upon A Time, the writers can't pull off the twists they like so much.

Edited November 21, 2016 by jhlipton

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

With A Surprising Cast Departure, How To Get Away With Murder Delivers The Season's First Great Episode

All it took was a devastating trauma!

[Chairperson Meow]

19 hours ago, Ireland77 said:

Sam died because he tried to murder Rebecca.  

You know what sucks about that....via flashbacks and rewatching all the seasons, I really like Sam.  I admit it.  I wouldn't mind if he'd have killed Rebecca.  It would've saved everyone a huge headache.  And I really liked that actress in the Killing where she, ironically af, played a dead girl.   Go figure.   And I'll be even more honest, I've watched literally every season of Grey's and many seasons of Scandal (I'm behind, sorry); I've taken those deaths like a champ (even O'Malley, Denny, Lexie and Mark, McDreamy), and while I can no longer listen to "Chasing Cars" by Snow Patrol without sobbing, I dealt with it.  But this death- Wes- showed me how savage it is in Shondaland.  I want Wes's killer to pay.  Like get Izzie Stevens to pull his LVAT wires or crossover Meredith Grey so she can bore him with a monologue about her dark and twisty life.  I want revenge, dammit.  And I want Anna Mae to go off on someone.  Wes was like her surrogate child.  Every Wes/AK scene was amazing. 

[wanderingstar]

Quote

 Every Wes/AK scene was amazing. 

FACTS!

Getting back to this episode, I need to talk about the death glare that Annalise gave Bonnie when Bonnie was trying to talk Frank down from killing himself. When Bonnie reminisced about her and Frank's night together in Coalport, Annalise gave her a look that basically said "How dare you two sleep together!" Like it was a personal affront or even a betrayal. The hold Annalise has over these folks is both fascinating and terrifying to behold.

[maddie965]

Yes it is. And that look she gave Bonnie makes me believe there is something sexual between her and Bonnie . Not romantic, but sexual, in a weird "You belong to me" way. Her minions are her slaves in every way. How dare they have feelings, or worst, sex with each other? 

Some people said the writers killed Wes for the shock value. Hey, shock value is the reason I watch this show. I need for it to be shocking , outrageous , fucked up. Otherwise what's the fun? Wes commited the ultimate crime on this series: he was boring. Now, Dead Wes is so much more interesting! Not as interesting as Alive Frank , but hey, that's tough competition there. Only Bonnie and Annalise are more fascinating than Frank...

Edited November 22, 2016 by maddie965

[jhlipton]

15 minutes ago, maddie965 said:

Yes it is. And that look she gave Bonnie makes me believe there is something sexual between her and Bonnie . Not romantic, but sexual, in a weird "You belong to me" way. Her minions are her slaves in every way. How dare they have feelings, or worst, sex with each other?

Bonnie definitely "belongs" to Annalise, more than anyone else, but I hope that, other than a drunken kiss, there isn't anything sexual between them.  We know that Annalise is definitely bi, but I don't think I've seen anything that indicates Bonnie likes women (or even just Annalise) "that way".