S02.E09: Homewrecker

[MrWhyt]

2 hours ago, theatremouse said:

Also depends on how you define evil. He's totally into drugs. He drinks too much. He doesn't mind throwing people through walls. 

oh he's totally into sin, but is sin automatically evil? Is it evil to steal a loaf of bread to feed your starving family? suppose you got a large starving family. Is it wrong to steal a truckload of bread to feed them? and what if your family don't like bread? suppose they like cigarettes? and instead of giving them away, you sold them at a price that was practically giving them away. Would that be evil?

[Helena Dax]

Omg, this show is so good... Lucifer is awesome and I like Chloe, but Dr. Linda and Maze blow my mind every week. They're just amazing characters, they feel real and original. The scene with Dr. Linda and Charlotte was great; Dr. Linda must be the bravest woman in the world. She's dealing so well with all the supernatural stuff, with so much dignity... And Brandt and the writers are giving Maze so much charm and depth...

I'm a trekkie, but Ella is starting to grate my nerves. I didn't like it when she pushed Lucifer to go to church and in this episode I had the feeling that they were trying to hard to make her cute and quirky. 

Poor Dan... Charlotte's a piece of work. I can't say she's my favourite thing in the show, but I'd really, really like to have a glimpse of her life when she was married to God, because omg, I just can't picture it!  I guess they married each other because there wasn't anyone else alive, heh.

[DEL901]

4 hours ago, Sonoma said:

  It also crossed my mind, since it has been brought up many times (though not on the show) how Trixie does not look like Dan or Chloe, that the prior history could even include a Rosemary's Baby, which would explain Trixie's immediate bond to Lucifer and Maze aside from just being an awesome kid. 

I was thinking something along this line myself.  I may be overthinking it but Chloe and Dan both have light coloured eyes (or at least it looks that way on my tv).  And two blue eyed people can't have a brown eyed child.  

Or maybe TBPT just went with the best child actress they found and I'm overthinking this.

[Arthur]

5 hours ago, theatremouse said:

I suppose it depends on which mythology you're analyzing: any number of various versions of the bible, vs the comic, vs this show, vs lots and lots of literature. I'm not saying this  show even necessarily follows the devil=evil premise, but:

1) A lot of humans assume that is part of the character just by his being "the devil"

2) in many versions of the devil, he's not just punishing the wicked; he also wants more wicked to punish and encourages them to do things that will get them sent to hell. So to use your analogy, if the prison guard goes around convincing people to commit crimes, so that he'd have more prisoners to jail, yeah that would be evil?

But so far the Lucifer on this show...I don't know if he's necessarily encouraging the evil. Also depends on how you define evil. He's totally into drugs. He drinks too much. He doesn't mind throwing people through walls. Some would say that's bad, whether or not he's encouraging others to do so. That might make him bad independent of the "job to punish". But maybe not "go to hell" bad. On the flipside part of his deal seems to be he always tells the truth, and some might argue perpetual liars are more evil than drugged up, drunk, sex fiends any day. Plus both in show and other texts, there's the whole "led the rebellion" thing that got him his gig to begin with. So that alone might=evil, which would mean it's not so much he's evil because he's the jailer, but that he was forced to be the jailer after having proven himself evil.

 

5 hours ago, theatremouse said:

I suppose it depends on which mythology you're analyzing: any number of various versions of the bible, vs the comic, vs this show, vs lots and lots of literature. I'm not saying this  show even necessarily follows the devil=evil premise, but:

1) A lot of humans assume that is part of the character just by his being "the devil"

2) in many versions of the devil, he's not just punishing the wicked; he also wants more wicked to punish and encourages them to do things that will get them sent to hell. So to use your analogy, if the prison guard goes around convincing people to commit crimes, so that he'd have more prisoners to jail, yeah that would be evil?

But so far the Lucifer on this show...I don't know if he's necessarily encouraging the evil. Also depends on how you define evil. He's totally into drugs. He drinks too much. He doesn't mind throwing people through walls. Some would say that's bad, whether or not he's encouraging others to do so. That might make him bad independent of the "job to punish". But maybe not "go to hell" bad. On the flipside part of his deal seems to be he always tells the truth, and some might argue perpetual liars are more evil than drugged up, drunk, sex fiends any day. Plus both in show and other texts, there's the whole "led the rebellion" thing that got him his gig to begin with. So that alone might=evil, which would mean it's not so much he's evil because he's the jailer, but that he was forced to be the jailer after having proven himself evil.

I think the difference (and, to me, it is major, is that Lucifer PUNISHES true evil and is disgusted by it. For his own behavior, and by extension to others, he is completely amoral (not immoral). There are multiple examples where he says the evil things humans do are on them, not him; his job is to punish them.

[Arthur]

Oh PLEASE....I so need to see Dan realize he just had sex with Lucifer's mom and for Lucifer to realize the same thing.

BTW, Dan is no dummy...he has GOT to be thinking about the wings scars on Lucifer's back, especially since the shot cuts during this scene made clear that they were visible and that Dan saw them.  What if Dan figures out Lucifer before Chloe...but, I don't think so.  When Chloe threw away Lucifer's blood sample, did she decide that faith trumps truth or did she decide faith and truth are the same thing?  Very deep.

 

I haven't loved a show this much since X-Files!

[Gigi43]

2 hours ago, DEL901 said:

I was thinking something along this line myself.  I may be overthinking it but Chloe and Dan both have light coloured eyes (or at least it looks that way on my tv).  And two blue eyed people can't have a brown eyed child.  

Or maybe TBPT just went with the best child actress they found and I'm overthinking this.

 

They did cast Kevin Alejandro after filming the pilot, they reshot the Dan scenes. I think the original actor Nicholas Gonzalez (who apparently has promotional stills of him as Dan on IMDB, yikes)  definitely looks the most like Trixie/Scarlett which may have had a lot to do with casting her. Once they realized, if they even cared, she wouldn't look the part they I'm sure figured out she was too awesome to replace.

Edited November 24, 2016 by Gigi43

[wilnil]

6 hours ago, MrWhyt said:

oh he's totally into sin, but is sin automatically evil?

My feeling is Lucifer has his own division of sins into grave and minor (not the standard Roman Catholic division into mortal and venial, since the RC mortal sins include pretty much all nonmarital sex); the minor ones amuse him, and the ones serious enough to earn the sinner a trip to Hell, of course, enrage him. 

[Mojeaux]

Me: I am not enjoying the mom storyline.

Mr. Mojeaux: You’ve said that for the last 3 episodes.

[paulvdb]

13 hours ago, theatremouse said:

Plus both in show and other texts, there's the whole "led the rebellion" thing that got him his gig to begin with. So that alone might=evil, which would mean it's not so much he's evil because he's the jailer, but that he was forced to be the jailer after having proven himself evil.

Is leading a rebellion automatically evil? Does that mean that George Washington was evil? And Nelson Mandela and Gandhi? Some people might consider some or all of these people evil, but I don't think leading a rebellion is automatically evil. It would depend on the reasons for the rebellion.

[mertensia]

9 hours ago, DEL901 said:

 

Bah! Idiot kindle issue!

 

9 hours ago, DEL901 said:

I was thinking something along this line myself.  I may be overthinking it but Chloe and Dan both have light coloured eyes (or at least it looks that way on my tv).  And two blue eyed people can't have a brown eyed child.  

Or maybe TBPT just went with the best child actress they found and I'm overthinking this.

Actually, yes they can. 

[DEL901]

5 hours ago, mertensia said:

Actually, yes they can. 

The blue eyed gene is recessive.  If someone has blue eyes that means both of their eye colour genes are blue.  They have no brown eye colour gene to pass one.

On the other hand, brown eyed people can have a blue eyed child because brown is dominant.  They could have one brown and one blue eyed gene.  They'd display the brown gene but pass the blue one on to a child.

[Raja]

On 11/22/2016 at 1:07 PM, theatremouse said:

We're talking 5'11" vs 5'1" so it's a significant height difference even without useful camera angles. I also don't remember what shoes Dr. Linda was wearing, but if flats vs super high heels, there easily could've been more than a genuine foot difference between them.

Squatters are often even more difficult to remove. But the timeline of everything in this episode made no sense. You can't give him the boot that quickly and you can't become .

Has either mother or the good doctor ever been seen without super high heels, while dressed that is.

[mertensia]

9 hours ago, DEL901 said:

The blue eyed gene is recessive.  If someone has blue eyes that means both of their eye colour genes are blue.  They have no brown eye colour gene to pass one.

On the other hand, brown eyed people can have a blue eyed child because brown is dominant.  They could have one brown and one blue eyed gene.  They'd display the brown gene but pass the blue one on to a child.

Nope. It's rare but it's possible.

[ProudMary]

On 11/23/2016 at 9:37 PM, Gigi43 said:

 

They did cast Kevin Alejandro after filming the pilot, they reshot the Dan scenes. I think the original actor Nicholas Gonzalez (who apparently has promotional stills of him as Dan on IMDB, yikes)  definitely looks the most like Trixie/Scarlett which may have had a lot to do with casting her. Once they realized, if they even cared, she wouldn't look the part they I'm sure figured out she was too awesome to replace.

I was browsing around YouTube last night and I came across this clip from the pilot; the scene where Chloe wakes up in the hospital after having been shot by sleazy Jimmy.  At the 1:50 mark, Lucifer is exiting Chloe's room and begins talking to an actor I didn't recognize at all from the aired pilot.  I realized the actor was playing Dan, pre-Kevin Alejandro.  So here's a clip with Nicholas Gonzalez in it.  I didn't know his name until I read your post @Gigi43!

Edited November 25, 2016 by ProudMary

[thuganomics85]

Figured they would find some way to save Lux (if nothing else, the cost of having to rebuild another set, I would imagine), but it being Chloe pulling some favors and doing it because she knew how much it meant to Lucifer, was very touching.  I really enjoy their interactions, even if I'm still iffy about them ever taking it to the, err, next level.  Of course, it seems like Lucifer is a bit afraid of that as well, since he apparently bailed on her at the nice restaurant, although all that drama might be moot, considering that last scene!

Case of the week was by the numbers, but Lucifer having personal stakes in it, was a decent change.  And there were times I really thought he might go full-blown Devil on some human asses, in order to save Lux.  The couple both confessing to protect the other/go down together was a bit pact, but oh well.  For what it is worth, I suspect the wife was the actual killer, mainly because the actress gave off more of a vibe that she was guilty of it, while the actor playing the husband seem to be playing the character like he was trying to cover for her.

Dan rebounds!  With.... "Charlotte."  Oh, boy.  Poor Dan.  Maze and Amenadiel's reactions where spot-on in that scene and pretty much all of their scenes.  I really love those two.

I've been likely Ella the past few episodes, but she was a bit over-the-top here.  In particular, I rolled my eyes at her Klingon bit and the fist bump, because even she has to know that Chloe likely wouldn't know a damn thing about that (or even Star Trek), and she certainly isn't someone who would do a fist bump.  Come on now, Ella.

So, Mom's big plan was to first blow up Lux, but now she is trying to kill Chloe, in order to get Lucifer to come back to her.  I can point out several flaws in that plan, but Mom clearly has a few screws loose.

[Delphi]

Wow.   Recasting Dan was the beast decision in the entire world.   I do not like that guy.  Though,  he screams 'douche', but not in the likable way Kevin does it. 

[Tarasme]

On 11/23/2016 at 2:19 PM, Sonoma said:

Oh, and for sure Ella has to be another celestial being.  Good or bad?  Grown up Trixie?

Please let there be a Season 3!

Though it's been done on another network, I'm hoping the supporting cast addition Ella (as opposed to the not so fictional novelist/ prophet)= God.

Cause it would be cool to consider the meta conversations about faith, fatherhood, morbid humor, Star Trek, etc. between Lu & God.

[gwhh]

20 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, Mom's big plan was to first blow up Lux, but now she is trying to kill Chloe, in order to get Lucifer to come back to her.  I can point out several flaws in that plan, but Mom clearly has a few screws loose.

Sharing the guilt and going to jail for murder as a not-yet-newlywed-couple just because of true love.  Yeah.  Only on scripted formats like TV and the movies.

Spending a few eons in hell.  Being tortured all the time, would unbalance anyone!

its LA after all!  Get a couple of good lawyers, a jury from LA.  They will get off and turn it into a big movie and book deal!

I do hope they do NOT show Lucy having sex with men.  I think that would be a real turn OFF to the show audience.  Plus, I feel Chloe, likes men who only likes woman.  

I do hope they keep Chloe and Lucy relations out of the bedroom!  It would be nice for her to find out that info last.  

I love how she walks into a police station, tell a bomb maker, he her lawyer and he starts making bombs for her!  I wonder if she can influence the weak willed.  I don't think Dan weak willed (remember last week, when Lucy was surprise how strong willed Dan was), I think he just into a good looking lady.   Making him into her dinner!  

I wonder how Chloe would react to Lucy mom banging dan? I feel there could be a serious girl fight from that!

Edited November 26, 2016 by gwhh

[storyskip]

3 hours ago, gwhh said:

I do hope they do NOT show Lucy having sex with men.  I think that would be a real turn OFF to the show audience.  Plus, I feel Chloe, likes men who only likes woman.  

I do hope they keep Chloe and Lucy relations out of the bedroom!  It would be nice for her to find out that info last.  

I wonder how Chloe would react to Lucy mom banging dad?  I feel there could be a serious girl fight from that!

They already showed Lucifer with men in the first season.  But fear not, (I say wryly) this is FOX so the show has firmly swung back around to heteronormative, as well as a few other tropes that I side-eye pretty heavily but it's FOX.

Well it's Lucifer so I'm sure if the show pulls the trigger on the pairing they'll be everywhere BUT the bedroom.  He does like his adventure.

I'm assuming you mean Dan here?  Since they're divorced Chloe has no say in who Dan sleeps with.  She also has no idea who Charlotte Richards is, aside from a married lawyer.  If Chloe would be pissed about anything she'd be pissed off at Dan for sleeping with a married woman.

Edited November 26, 2016 by storyskip

[romantic idiot]

So is it me or did Luci seem weirdly short tempered this episode?

[Bruinsfan]

On 11/25/2016 at 3:03 PM, gwhh said:

I do hope they do NOT show Lucy having sex with men.  I think that would be a real turn OFF to the show audience.  Plus, I feel Chloe, likes men who only likes woman. 

Yes, I'm sure an audience watching a show with the Devil as the eponymous title character value conservative family values and would clutch their pearls at the thought of him having icky man-on-man sex. Out of curiosity, what exactly are you basing the impression of Chloe on? I must have missed the scene where she talked about bi guys disgusting her.

[Featherhat]

I don't think Chloe's problem with dating Lucifer would be that he had slept with men, it's everything else about his lifestyle that would be a problem with her. The fact that he sleeps with anyone and everyone he fancies, whenever he feels like it (at crime scenes, therapists office, backstage at fashion shows etc) complains loudly that he left a foursome to come solve a "boring" murder, treats everything like his own personal playground and is famous for holding decadent orgies and keeping a harem of Britneys and other assorted hangers on around LUX. That he potentially liked men would be the least of it. I think she'd want monogamy, which Lucifer simply isn't capable of providing and she wouldn't want Trixie anywhere near LUX full time, though she knows she can't forbid Maze from setting up her sex equipment in her own bedroom.

Given what we know of Chloe's only canon relationship so far, she likes someone who at least comes across as dependable (which Dan didn't live up to in the end) and the times when she gets most annoyed at Lucifer is when he once again proves he isn't, which would only amplify if/when they tried to give an actual relationship a go.

I agree with Bruinsfan the vast majority of people who would have a problem with Lucifer sleeping with a guy (or at least flirting heavily with one) aren't watching this show to begin with. FOX Channel isn't synonymous with FOX News.

[sinkwriter]

I think my favorite laugh from this episode was when Lucifer walked into his club, saw the movers putting a cover on his piano, and announced loudly, "TAKE YOUR HANDS OFF MY PIANO!"

That was the best. And I was in total agreement with Lucifer. How dare anyone try to confiscate his piano! I love it when he sings or plays broody music at that piano. 

[Ailianna]

On 11/23/2016 at 4:42 AM, CheshireCat said:

Agreed! I don't understand why they're forcing the issue. Although, maybe I do, considering that the conversation between Dr Linda and Lucifer seemed to imply that Lucifer came to LA looking for love. Or maybe I misinterpreted it, however, since he stood Chloe up it seemed like they were talking about love and not his home.

Personally, I find that a bit a far-fetched. Maybe he was looking for someone who loved him because he felt neglected and I'm sure he was looking for a home. Still, it felt very simplified especially since Lucifer is/was also running from something - his previous life. I don't think he was looking for someone to be in love with because wouldn't that mean he had to understand humanity and the concept of being in love?

One thing that I wondered about, however, is if Lucifer is making himself vulnerable when he's around Chloe. Dr Linda said that she believes that he's afraid what Chloe might think once she knows the real Lucifer. Considering that they had humans go insane once they had proof of humanity and Amenadiel repeatedly warned Lucifer about humans knowing about divinity, I think Lucifer didn't need a subconscious reason. I think having the desire not to risk Chloe going insane would have been enough and now, after he's seen Dr Linda's reaction, it's understandable if he doesn't want to risk Chloe's friendship. However, going with the Lucifer doesn't want Chloe to know because he's afraid how she'll react maybe that's why he's vulnerable around her. Maybe it's his psyche/subconscious and it has nothing to do with Chloe herself.

 

 

On 11/23/2016 at 9:28 AM, Tarasme said:

What I'm hoping is that, despite anvilicious themes to the contrary, Luci's interest in and need for Chloe is not romantic in nature but rather the need to be connected, to trust, to depend upon another being fully.  Lu's been on his own for eons- to break down his defenses, allow himself to be vulnerable (which he is physically vulnerable with only Chloe still, right?) and accept connection with someone is a need he can't yet bring himself to accept. I can sympathize with the character's reaction to stand Chloe up- it's awfully scary to allow yourself to be in a position to be rejected when you want to be accepted so much.

Maybe tPtB think the only sell-able deep human connection on tv (that isn't genetic) between two leads has to at one point or another be romantic? Unless it's a buddy cop show? 

I am still getting a friends vibe from them, especially from Chloe.  And Lucifer's conversation with Dr. Linda about how Chloe saved Lux without getting anything for herself, without even making him ask her--I think he's just beginning to figure out what it means to have a friend.  He's been looking for that, I think, and I also think that home doesn't have to be a specific building or city--but it's hard to find home without friendship.  The anvils that others are seeing just don't seem that romantic to me, given that the things that made Chloe different from all the other people in the beginning were her indifference to his charm and good looks, and that she didn't want anything from him.  She respects his mind and ability, but isn't into him because his daddy's important, or because he can help her movie career, or hook her up, or any of the other things that all the humans he has been around have been looking for from him.  And likewise, Maze isn't truly his friend either--she didn't choose him because she likes him and wants to hang out with him, but because he's her boss, and possibly her master (in a demon-master sense), and she's bound to his protection.  But not because she picked him to be friends with.  And I think the very plain story of Maze finding friends is mirrored in Lucifer's story, but just as she's blunter and faster to judgment than he is, I think she's finding friends faster too.  Or at least realizing what she's found faster.

[gwhh]

On ‎11‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 7:06 PM, storyskip said:

I'm assuming you mean Dan here?  Since they're divorced Chloe has no say in who Dan sleeps with.  She also has no idea who Charlotte Richards is, aside from a married lawyer.  If Chloe would be pissed about anything she'd be pissed off at Dan for sleeping with a married woman.

Good point.  I agree.  I think she be really mad about that??  But Does Dan for sure she is married?

I think Chloe more of the type I want a lover and a friend!!

For all of Dan faults.  I get the feeling he an excellent lover.  And I get the feeling Chloe demands a lot of in the bedroom.  Plus, I could see Dan, mom and Chloe fighting over Dan actions with mom.  And Chloe saying Dan he great, but I am still better than mom in the bedroom!!  

Edited November 28, 2016 by gwhh

[galaxychaser]

Ella is annoying. She acts like a 15 year old.