S01.E06: Guilty As F**k

[formerlyfreedom]

Issa tries to hide her guilt from Lawrence, who reiterates his love for her. Meanwhile, Molly dives into a new romance, but has second thoughts about the future after learning unsavory details about her new boyfriend's past.

 

[FoxyBrown]

Debbie Allen directed this ep...and also provided another beautiful ass shot. Appreciated.

Issa needs to respond to Daniel  just to wrap that mess up and then she needs to block his number from her phone. She made the right choice in not confessing to Lawrence. I liked Molly's non-judgment and support. She knows Issa's heart.

[Ohwell]

On a purely shallow note, I prefer Lawrence's body over Daniel's.  That shot of nekkid Lawrence walking to the bathroom.  Damn.

I am glad that Issa didn't confess to Lawrence.  Also, for all we know, Lawrence might have had a secret one-nighter too, and if so, I'm glad he didn't confess to Issa.  

I thought Jared's confession about sex with a guy was interesting.  I don't even like Molly but I would have reacted the same way if a guy told me something like that.  I don't blame Jared, but it's just something that I wouldn't be able to get past. 

Now that I think about it, I guess this episode was about confessions--when you should and when you shouldn't.

Also, as much as I like Jared, there was something about Jared this episode that struck me as kind of "young."  Maybe it was his sitting at the table eating cereal, lol.  

Edited November 14, 2016 by Ohwell

[huahaha]

Arrrggh. Molly! You're killing me. I remember being 20-something and thinking everything is a deal breaker, but it's still hard to watch.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

She made the right choice in not confessing to Lawrence.

I don't know, perhaps she should consider the odds of his finding out some other way. The social circle they travel in doesn't seem to be all that big and there may be some other links between Issa's and Daniel's. If Daniel mentions it to someone it could get back to Lawrence through the grapevine. I think she might want to feel Daniel out just to see where his head is. Hopefully he's not the kind of guy who would deliberately blow up her current relationship.

Quote

Molly dives into a new romance, but has second thoughts about the future after learning unsavory details about her new boyfriend's past.

Whaaa? This technically isn't a "new romance," it's a rekindling of a previous one. Wonder who writes these blurbs? Apparently it's someone who doesn't actually watch the show.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Joimiaroxeu

[Irlandesa]

5 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Whaaa? This technically isn't a "new romance," it's a rekindling of a previous one. Wonder who writes these blurbs? Apparently it's someone who doesn't actually watch the show.

I also didn't like the description of Jared's information as "unsavory."  I mean, I guess it was to her but man am I mad at her for it.  I guess her reaction is realistic but it made me want her to be single forever.  I adored him. "Have you tried blue apron?" Heh.

I do think she gave Issa solid advice about telling Lawrence.  If this wasn't something Issa was ever going to repeat or tempted to repeat, it's best not to burden him with information he can't forget. 

[DrivingSideways]

I love Molly, but she does not deserve Jared!  So he let a guy blow him - I have to agree with Molly's coworker who was all "Can't a ... get his D sucked?"  I feel for Molly, feels like she's going through shit trying to figure out exactly who she is.  

I want Lawrence to run away with the bank teller.  I just don't find Issa particularly likable.  I never really liked Carrie Bradshaw either though, so sometimes disliking the main character can work.

[Amethyst]

Molly makes it harder and harder to like her, but bonus points for realism, I guess.  I understand her apprehension about Jared, but not the way she went about it.  She was a major hypocrite (Issa and Kelli told no lies there) and I don't think she really gave the whole thing much consideration.  I think her mind was made up by the time they went to the play.  I felt for her at first, because it's easier to say what you can handle until it actually happens.  But dumping Jared again the span of a week after showing up to his house for a drunken booty call?  And judging him for doing the same shit you did?  Girl, bye.  Molly needs to do some soul searching, because her methods aren't working.

I didn't find that violent scene with Lawrence to be funny or amusing, just disturbing.

I would agree with Molly about not telling Lawrence if I thought that would be the end of the thing with Daniel.  If this was just some steamy hookup, then Issa should leave it alone, tell Daniel it's over and move on with Lawrence.  I'm all for being honest, I just don't see how telling Lawrence would help.

But I don't think that's the case.  Lawrence is doing well now, but a few weeks ago, Issa was ready to dump his ass, and the stuff driving them apart hasn't gone away.  And skimpy Bank Teller is still hanging onto Lawrence's peripheral.  But it wasn't just lust that drove Issa to sleep with Daniel, she likes him.  

Loved that scene with all the girls.  Although I don't like their bougie friend it is good to get different perspectives.  I wish they would show Kelli more.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Amethyst

[tenativelyyours]

I'm not sure about the whole telling Lawrence thing.  Mainly because Issa still seems to not know what she wants.  Every time she even flirts with the idea of losing him she goes into huge panic mode.  That should tell her something.  But she also needs to figure out Daniel and what he wants.  She does want him.  Physically.  And she wants to make it right with herself over having all these feelings of loss and regret with their past.  He was the one that got away in some senses as well as was her unfulfilled wish for such a long time.  If that studio fuck session put that to rest then she needs to put him to rest.  If it didn't, and it is unclear whether her flashbacks were guilt or still lingering desire, she needs to sit down and figure out why the idea of it pushing Lawrence away is so panic-inducing. 

I do hope that the show doesn't fall into tit for tat and have Lawrence run out and hit something in revenge.  The set up with the bank teller being so obvious in her interest suggests that might be something that plays a part even more so than establishing how firmly Lawrence is into his relationship with Issa.  But it would be nice to have a man not be a dog just because so many are in real life.  There are also plenty in real life who aren't.

I do hope that Jared is around in future episodes.  I get that Molly Ever After is not a thing in the show soon I suspect.  I think the show is trying (and doing an excellent job) to portray how different the two women are in their lives in terms of relationships even as certain elements parallel and reflect each other.  So I think with Issa we will see the various ins and outs of being in a perceived monogamous relationship that is going through difficulties while Molly shows us the hazards and pitfalls of being eager to get in a relationship and yet not having a clue as to not blow yourself up every single damn time.

Because she really sabotages herself.  She can't read a room even when she is the only one in it.  Even as Jared pretty much wins over her judgemental friends, she walks away from that night with her doubts and sends him packing.  She gets a bit Fatal Attraction with the doctor and sends him running, she does the same thing with the lawyer but he decides what the hell and gives her a little bit of a chance (though I still think he was wrong and a bit shady himself for doing that).  Now she brings back Jared and fucks it up again.  There he sat and laughed and totally accepted her with her past as it was just that, her past.  And she couldn't return the favor.  Despite some wall banging sex.  How much proof in the pudding can a girl get that a blow job is a blow job when he is slamming you every chance he gets?  And slamming rather well it seems.  It is interesting and rather well played that Molly is so blind to her own 'faults' (not sure that is the right word but she cannot for the life of her see what she is doing that scares off men so fast, she cannot take it slow and careful and just take her time) but really quick to define something else as a fault and make it a deal breaker -- especially with Jared. 

By the way, Jared was good looking before this, but this episode he was all kinds of hot and charming and grab worthy. 

I like how the show is dealing with Issa's boss.  It would be easy to make her a bit one note.  The privilege that lends to be patronizing and self-congratulatory is there but so is a sense of sincerity.  I think that Issa might have started out as the needed face of diversity in a mostly lily-white organization aimed mostly at helping those who aren't lily-white.  But I also get the sense that her boss wants Issa to succeed.  As an individual as well as the needed input she provides in what looks like a table of trust fund babies who stumbled out of Orange County.

I've been to that play.  More times than I want to remember.  Loved the women in the hats.  Been behind that a couple of times too.  Loved "I hate my cousin".  Is that Kelli?  I want a lot more of her. 

I'm wondering if they are setting up the overly self-satisfied other friend up for a fall though.  She seems rather smug and extremely determined on her perch and this is a tv show after all.  Watching her fall or get knocked off just seems a logical way to give viewers a sort of loyalty rewards program.  Eventually we will see that fall. 

[Zeebreezy]

On a shallow note am I the only that thinks the woman that plays Molly bears an uncanny resemblance to Jill Marie Jones from Girlfriends? 

[Ohwell]

Yes, she does.

[scrb]

Issa  does a poor job of hiding it so it's going to come out, probably leading to a cliffhanger.

Yeah it's interesting that she imagined Lawrence would hit her on finding out but nothing in the way they portrayed his character suggests he'd be violent.

In fact, he sees the text from Daniel on her phone and doesn't cause a scene, even though it looks shady.

 

I wonder if the scene of them attending that bad play is suppose to be satire of black people putting up with poor entertainment or creative works because they were created by or performed by black artists?   Was it a stealth shot at Tyler Perry!?!

[tenativelyyours]

27 minutes ago, scrb said:

Issa  does a poor job of hiding it so it's going to come out, probably leading to a cliffhanger.

Yeah it's interesting that she imagined Lawrence would hit her on finding out but nothing in the way they portrayed his character suggests he'd be violent.

In fact, he sees the text from Daniel on her phone and doesn't cause a scene, even though it looks shady.

 

I wonder if the scene of them attending that bad play is suppose to be satire of black people putting up with poor entertainment or creative works because they were created by or performed by black artists?   Was it a stealth shot at Tyler Perry!?!

 

Whether it was meant to be or not, that is how I am now taking it !  lol

[NYCNJbear06]

Clearly even after everything Issa still has some unresolved feelings for Daniel.  Because, why would you one not just text him after the hook up, hey that was a mistake, I shouldn't have done that, it's on me. I want to stay in my relationship so I don't think it would be a good idea for us to talk anymore.  Done and Blocked!  Simple.  The fact that she wasn't able to do that makes me give a side eye to the fact that she isn't ready to be done with him.  Or at the very least the "thought" of him.  It was established that she always wanted more but moved on when she thought he didn't.  Now that he has expressed more interest and attention its leading to her having doubts.  I see her internalizing this more leading to an unfortunate outcome for their relationship.

Molly...molly...molly, I love me some flavor flav (the dog LOL) but you should just start buying cats cuz you gonna be single forever and become bitter crazy cat woman if you don't deal with your issues.  I get, if not understand the double standard when it comes to straight women and "if you even thought about a dick let alone touched one, you are gay"  mindset but come on?  You have a man who was willing to take you back after you treated him like crap, bangs your back out lovely, was not judgmental when you shared your past and was secure enough to be completely honest with you about his experimentation and you can't deal?  Looking at your track record I think you could have tried a little harder.  Also, you don't have to tell you girlfriends everything especially to bougie one.  Yeah, you want to talk to your girls but I think her response in particular put her over the edge and caused her to settle in her feelings.  You rush to jump into relationships and rush to jump out of them.  

[Ohwell]

Actually, even if Lawrence finds out about Issa and Daniel, I predict they'll work things out and get back together sometime next season.  In the meantime, I think he'll have a retaliatory fling with bank teller, who, despite her sunny personality, turns out to be a bunny boiler, sending Lawrence hightailing it back to Issa.  

At least I hope that's how it works out.

[Empress1]

7 hours ago, NYCNJbear06 said:

Clearly even after everything Issa still has some unresolved feelings for Daniel.  Because, why would you one not just text him after the hook up, hey that was a mistake, I shouldn't have done that, it's on me. I want to stay in my relationship so I don't think it would be a good idea for us to talk anymore.  Done and Blocked!  Simple.  The fact that she wasn't able to do that makes me give a side eye to the fact that she isn't ready to be done with him.  Or at the very least the "thought" of him.  It was established that she always wanted more but moved on when she thought he didn't.  Now that he has expressed more interest and attention its leading to her having doubts.  I see her internalizing this more leading to an unfortunate outcome for their relationship.

Molly...molly...molly, I love me some flavor flav (the dog LOL) but you should just start buying cats cuz you gonna be single forever and become bitter crazy cat woman if you don't deal with your issues.  I get, if not understand the double standard when it comes to straight women and "if you even thought about a dick let alone touched one, you are gay"  mindset but come on?  You have a man who was willing to take you back after you treated him like crap, bangs your back out lovely, was not judgmental when you shared your past and was secure enough to be completely honest with you about his experimentation and you can't deal?  Looking at your track record I think you could have tried a little harder.  Also, you don't have to tell you girlfriends everything especially to bougie one.  Yeah, you want to talk to your girls but I think her response in particular put her over the edge and caused her to settle in her feelings.  You rush to jump into relationships and rush to jump out of them.  

Agreed. If she really wanted to be done with Daniel, she would text him and say "That was a mistake and I don't want to speak to you anymore, not even as friends," delete his info, block him - and NOT tell Lawrence. Telling Lawrence doesn't do him any good. But deleting his texts is really passive and still leaves the door open.

Issa created a podcast called "Fruit" about pro-football player trying to figure out his sexuality, and in an interview she said she was interested in exploring the idea she said on the show: why can't a man explore his sexuality without being labeled gay? So I thought it was cool that they explored this here. I disagreed with Molly and think she needs to do a lot of soul-searching to figure out her part in why things aren't working out for her.

I didn't know Lawrence was hiding that body!

[Amethyst]

15 hours ago, tenativelyyours said:

I'm wondering if they are setting up the overly self-satisfied other friend up for a fall though.  She seems rather smug and extremely determined on her perch and this is a tv show after all.  Watching her fall or get knocked off just seems a logical way to give viewers a sort of loyalty rewards program.  Eventually we will see that fall. 

Oh, I'm certain they're setting it up for something embarrassing and/or humbling.  She's too haughty for that not to happen.

[scrb]

Molly's reaction is "visceral."  She was going to give it a try as Issa advised but with Jared's head between her legs, she realized she just can't.

Plus the way they shot it, the top of his head looked like it was bobbing up and down like he was going down on a dude than a chick.

Maybe Molly the character is just destined to date a lot of guys, unable to find stability while Issa s trying to hang on to it.

[withanaich]

20 hours ago, NYCNJbear06 said:

Also, you don't have to tell you girlfriends everything especially to bougie one.

This, oh my goodness, this. Molly is just as bad about understanding there's a time and place for everything (but NOT for others) as Rasheeda. If she just HAD to tell someone, she probably could've trusted Issa as her best friend. If she wanted to get a second opinion, maybe she could have talked to Kelli (I think that's her name? The one whose cousin was in the terrible play?). But there was no need to discuss that in a group setting, with people she knows are catty and judgmental ... unless that's exactly what she wanted. She wanted someone to feed her fears and tell her to dump Jared (again). She might have been able to "get past it" if she didn't have her smug friend's "jokes" ringing in her ears. OTOH, I don't know if Jared dropping that doozy of a confession in her lap so soon into their (rekindled) romance was a wise choice either ... unless, again, he did it on purpose. It could have been a test to see if she was willing to completely accept him for him. Now of course, that's a lot for some people to deal with, but maybe he's tired of playing games and waiting for the other shoe to drop.

[NYCNJbear06]

I didn't see Jared's "confession" as something that he needed to contemplate whether or not if it was too soon to reveal.  I felt he was just sharing a similar situation that Molly just shared.  I took it as from his perspective as a non issue that I doubt if Molly wouldn't have brought up her lady pond dalliance that he would have ever. Not from a trying to hide it from her perspective but from a tried it once, wasn't for me, never going to do it again so no big deal.   

[Ohwell]

16 hours ago, scrb said:

Plus the way they shot it, the top of his head looked like it was bobbing up and down like he was going down on a dude than a chick.

LOL.  Yeah, that too.  When I saw his head bobbing up and down like that I wondered WTF he was doing.  Molly looked like she wondered, too.

Also, not to get too graphic, but when he was giving it to her from behind I assumed he was in her vagina,.  Right?   

[Nanrad]

7 hours ago, Ohwell said:

LOL.  Yeah, that too.  When I saw his head bobbing up and down like that I wondered WTF he was doing.  Molly looked like she wondered, too.

Also, not to get too graphic, but when he was giving it to her from behind I assumed he was in her vagina,.  Right?   

I think it had to be or she would've been even more bothered post revelation. 

[Ohwell]

9 hours ago, Nanrad said:

I think it had to be or she would've been even more bothered post revelation. 

Yeah, she probably would have been even more bothered.  But the thought occurred to me when he was banging her from behind that maybe his mind wandered to the other side.  Now, I certainly know that that's a standard position but, given his confession, if I were Molly I'd be wondering..........  

[LydiaMoon1]

I HATED the pilot to this show.  I didn’t watch for weeks afterward, but I decided to give the show another try and I'm glad I did.  I liked eps 3-6 enough to want to continue watching.  I've decided that HBO must have forced Issa to make that cliche-ridden pilot.  Anyway...

16 hours ago, Nanrad said:

When I saw his head bobbing up and down like that I wondered WTF he was doing.  Molly looked like she wondered, too.

Quote

Now, I certainly know that that's a standard position but, given his confession, if I were Molly I'd be wondering..........

ALL this is why I don't have a problem with Molly breaking things off with Jared.  Yeah, he said it only happened once and never happened again (and men never lie, right?) , but if I had to choose between wondering and worrying and not, I'll take the latter.

[Ohwell]

While I can understand why people could see it as a double standard, with a woman having sex with another woman not being a big deal but a man having sex with a man is such a big deal, I think for some men the thought of two women is a turn on (threesome, anyone?) whereas I've never met a woman who was turned on by the thought of two men. 

[tenativelyyours]

However I do know a few women that would outsourced the blowjobs to discrete gay man in an instant. 

Though I also know of a few women that do find gay porn arousing.  But that is in an abstract versus a man you yourself are intimate with.  But it also was clear to me that if Molly listened to Jared intently enough she would parse what giving a blow job means and getting one.  I'm sure somewhere out there is a study of a 100 straight men who got blowjobs in the dark and were told it could be a man or a woman and I'm betting that didn't deter half of them. 

I did have a moment of confusion as to Jared's style of oral.  I know it was for the plot, but for a second I thought there was some kind of new trick for oral on a woman that as a gay man would probably otherwise remain some type of sacred mystery (an altar I would never worship at, kind of like a regular church, that if you get the preaching right the choir shouts alleluia).  It was like he was bobbing for the tiniest apple ever. 

[Ohwell]

 I had a male friend (RIP) who told me he got a blowjob from a guy once when he was in the military; he said he didn't reciprocate.  Now he and I were close friends, so there was no need for him to lie to me and say he was only on the receiving end, because I wouldn't have judged either way.  He did say that he never told any of his girlfriends or his wife though.  Which was probably for the best.

[Nanrad]

3 hours ago, LydiaMoon1 said:

ALL this is why I don't have a problem with Molly breaking things off with Jared.  Yeah, he said it only happened once and never happened again (and men never lie, right?) , but if I had to choose between wondering and worrying and not, I'll take the latter.

Here's the thing: I don't know if Insecure intentionally had the eating out appear that way (which I'm going with) OR it was just bad simulation. The reason I say this is because another show I watched simulated a blowjob, but her head wasn't moving at all and we knew that in was in the process of happening. So.....

But, that situation is tricky overall. This seems to be the only area most women will agree about being lied to and being okay with it. But, for me, whether or not someone volunteers that information, they can still lie or be misleading about it. I'd rather the guy feel comfortable talking to be than if he were gay, being hit out of no where if I ever found out. That's a real fear of mine--someone I'm dating unexpectedly coming out to me or me finding out by accident. Now if he told me, maybe I'd be curious, but at the same time, I wouldn't be surprised or necessarily devastated. 

3 hours ago, Ohwell said:

While I can understand why people could see it as a double standard, with a woman having sex with another woman not being a big deal but a man having sex with a man is such a big deal, I think for some men the thought of two women is a turn on (threesome, anyone?) whereas I've never met a woman who was turned on by the thought of two men. 

I'm going to be honest: the thought of two men turn me on. lol. 

I recall one time in college a group of women I was sitting with were having a random discussion about porn and they were going on and on about how disgusting they found out, so I was discouraged to say, "I don't see the big deal people watching it." I've also encountered many women who talk freely about porn when they're in an environment that is a no judgement zone. I can't personally speak about the type of in depth conversations you have with your friends, but I do think it's something that some women may keep a secret. 

But, now that I think about it, whether or not some women find it attractive, but it's a unique dynamic with black women and DL men and christianity. 

[Ohwell]

1 hour ago, Nanrad said:

Here's the thing: I don't know if Insecure intentionally had the eating out appear that way (which I'm going with) OR it was just bad simulation. The reason I say this is because another show I watched simulated a blowjob, but her head wasn't moving at all and we knew that in was in the process of happening. So.....

So the two shows got it backwards.  LOL.

[Irlandesa]

4 hours ago, LydiaMoon1 said:

ALL this is why I don't have a problem with Molly breaking things off with Jared.  Yeah, he said it only happened once and never happened again (and men never lie, right?) , but if I had to choose between wondering and worrying and not, I'll take the latter.

I find it interesting Jered's getting the judgment here. "He could be lying." Sure men lie but why would he here?  A blow job is a pretty significant confession as opposed to say...a kiss.  And if he were ashamed or on the down low, I don't think he'd share that much.  And he shouldn't have told her?  She's the one who kept goading him into telling more and more.  She had already confessed to same sex play herself.  Why wouldn't he tell her?  How was he to know she was playing the "keep telling me secrets about yourself until I can find something to judge you on" game? 

I always thought Molly inadvertently sabotaged her relationships.  But now, I think it's intentional.

4 hours ago, Ohwell said:

While I can understand why people could see it as a double standard, with a woman having sex with another woman not being a big deal but a man having sex with a man is such a big deal, I think for some men the thought of two women is a turn on (threesome, anyone?) whereas I've never met a woman who was turned on by the thought of two men. 

 

47 minutes ago, Nanrad said:

I'm going to be honest: the thought of two men turn me on. lol. 

Same here.  And we're not alone.  Male/Male romance novels, slash fiction and shows about gay dudes are not solely supported by gay males. In fact, they may not be even the majority of consumers of that product.  Women are.

Undoubtedly, sexual experimentation and sexual fluidity is more accepted in society when it's women but that doesn't make her freaking out any less biphobic--or any less not gay, not even bi, just had a same sex experience that wasn't his thing-phobic. Especially when receiving a blow job is a pretty passive act.

[LydiaMoon1]

9 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I find it interesting Jered's getting the judgment here. "He could be lying." Sure men lie but why would he here?  A blow job is a pretty significant confession as opposed to say...a kiss.  And if he were ashamed or on the down low, I don't think he'd share that much.  And he shouldn't have told her?  She's the one who kept goading him into telling more and more.  She had already confessed to same sex play herself.  Why wouldn't he tell her?  How was he to know she was playing the "keep telling me secrets about yourself until I can find something to judge you on" game? 

I always thought Molly inadvertently sabotaged her relationships.  But now, I think it's intentional.

 Whether Jared was completely truthful or not, what he said was enough to make Molly hesitant to continue the relationship.  And why should she continue?  Jared’s not the last man on earth. The world is full of men of all sizes, shapes, and colors.  If one of them says or does anything at the beginning of a relationship that raises a red flag, it’s smart to move on.  Now, mileage will vary on what is and is not a red flag, but I think the worst mistake a woman can make is to ignore and/or excuse behavior in a man that makes her uncomfortable. So while Molly has made some boneheaded dating moves, this is the one time she was smart. 

As for Jared?  Thanks, bruh. Appreciate your honesty. **pats him on the shoulder**  Keep in touch. 

[NYCNJbear06]

Wow, this episode has brought a lot up for folks.  Cool, I love good convo and healthy debate on these types of topics.

Regarding the head bobbing – I think it could have been a direction from the director – Debbie Allen- to be more animated to bring home what was going on rather than just have a stationary head in place implying what’s going on.  If it wasn’t and it was supposed to symbolize looking like he was going through the same motions for a blowjob good call it worked. 

Also I can’t get the image of Debbie directing the scene goading him on and I would pay good money to hear her say “Fame cost, boy, and this is where you start paying in sweat” and launching in to a rendition of “Hot Lunch” LOL note to self, check and see if Fame is on Netflix.

Shady Sadie (Shady Sadie)
Serving lady (serving lady)
Don't pay her no mind, no
She'll take ev'ry dime
She's got a one-a-day lunch,
good for all the bunch, yeah.

HOT LUNCH, YEEAAHHH.

Macaroni and balogni,
Tuna fish, our favorite dish.
Hot lunch, hey
If it's yellow, then it's jello
If it's blue, it could be stew, ooh, ooh.

She's got a one-a-day lunch,
Good for all the bunch, hey now.

Edited November 18, 2016 by NYCNJbear06

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, LydiaMoon1 said:

but I think the worst mistake a woman can make is to ignore and/or excuse behavior in a man that makes her uncomfortable. So while Molly has made some boneheaded dating moves, this is the one time she was smart. 

Oh I think she was smart to move on if that's the way she felt.  She's entitled to her feelings but I still think her double standard and phobia comes from a pretty nasty and judgmental place.  I rooted for her in previous episodes but here I do not. 

[NYCNJbear06]

I agree Irandesa about the double standard issue.

It would have been interesting if it had been brought up in the group conversation at the theater event when the bougie friend made the “he’s gay” comment someone would have pointed out “So, by that token, is Molly a lesbian?”  I wonder what Molly’s reaction would have been.

 

[withanaich]

Quote

Oh I think she was smart to move on if that's the way she felt.  She's entitled to her feelings but I still think her double standard and phobia comes from a pretty nasty and judgmental place. 

Agreed 1000%. Nobody "deserves" a "chance" from anyone, but it's really best for Jared that she takes her judgmental, self-sabotaging ass elsewhere. I'm finding Molly to be a really unsympathetic character. 

[ZaldamoWilder]

3 hours ago, NYCNJbear06 said:

I agree Irandesa about the double standard issue.

It would have been interesting if it had been brought up in the group conversation at the theater event when the bougie friend made the “he’s gay” comment someone would have pointed out “So, by that token, is Molly a lesbian?”  I wonder what Molly’s reaction would have been.

 

She brought it up herself.   She said well I did so and so in college.  Then Issa said girl please, who didn't?   So it wasn't fully explored because that seemed to be about Molly's partner's promiscuity rather than whatever conclusion they need to admit about Molly's sexuality but it was covered.  Kinda.

5 hours ago, LydiaMoon1 said:

 Whether Jared was completely truthful or not, what he said was enough to make Molly hesitant to continue the relationship.  And why should she continue?  Jared’s not the last man on earth. The world is full of men of all sizes, shapes, and colors.  If one of them says or does anything at the beginning of a relationship that raises a red flag, it’s smart to move on.  Now, mileage will vary on what is and is not a red flag, but I think the worst mistake a woman can make is to ignore and/or excuse behavior in a man that makes her uncomfortable. So while Molly has made some boneheaded dating moves, this is the one time she was smart. 

As for Jared?  Thanks, bruh. Appreciate your honesty. **pats him on the shoulder**  Keep in touch. 

 

Sadly I've seen that play too.  Even paid for the tickets.   That one and all others of Terrell's ilk are what I like to call "mama done burnt the chicken" productions.   Brought to you by Shelly Garrett.

[NYCNJbear06]

Yeah it wasn’t fully fleshed out. 

In regards to my framing it was more about I wonder what her reaction would be if the question was put to her directly. Its more about saying the word Lesbian not implying it.  What would her reaction be to the label being placed on her.  Its about the bigger context of the discussion of  “Does having a one time  sexual experience with the same sex automatically make you gay or lesbian?”   I would imagine her answer would be no it was a one time thing, not my deal.  Which the group would co sign on and not doubt her heterosexuality. But conversely they wouldn't (especially the bougie one)  say the same about Jared.   

[Nanrad]

10 hours ago, LydiaMoon1 said:

 Whether Jared was completely truthful or not, what he said was enough to make Molly hesitant to continue the relationship.  And why should she continue?  Jared’s not the last man on earth. The world is full of men of all sizes, shapes, and colors.  If one of them says or does anything at the beginning of a relationship that raises a red flag, it’s smart to move on.  Now, mileage will vary on what is and is not a red flag, but I think the worst mistake a woman can make is to ignore and/or excuse behavior in a man that makes her uncomfortable. So while Molly has made some boneheaded dating moves, this is the one time she was smart. 

As for Jared?  Thanks, bruh. Appreciate your honesty. **pats him on the shoulder**  Keep in touch. 

Molly was hesitant because she's homophobic.

Jared is not the last man on Earth, but why I thought she should've continued: he made her happy and they were compatible. Usually women who have such a visceral reaction to this type of situation are afraid of their partners leaving them for men as if they aren't good enough for their male partner. Or he's less of a man--I'm not speaking about anyone here, but this is just my general experience when it comes to men who are Bi or suspected as gay for any number of reasons whether or not it's based on fact. Like, I know someone who'd never have anal sex because they think it's a gateway to homosexuality. Like, I know that that isn't some people's thing, which is fine, but the whole 'gateway to homosexuality' raises a few eyebrows. 

Molly is smart in the sense that it made her uncomfortable and she couldn't get over it, but in the bigger scheme of things, I think it was boneheaded because it is a double standard. She's never suspected that he was attracted to men before then, and then reads into everything he does because 'it happened one time and it could happen again!!!' Like, if he held her to that same standard, it would be bogus. 

[Sheenieb]

Quote

I always thought Molly inadvertently sabotaged her relationships.  But now, I think it's intentional.

Any Being Mary Jane watchers here? If so, Molly reminds me of MJ. They can't help setting their blessings on fire.

But most people are progressive in name only. As soon as we have to prove it, we revert back to traditional mores. Jared's exploration conversation should've been kept between them, or if she wanted to tell her best friend, okay. Though I do think that certain conversations should be between partners only. Everyone doesn't have to know your business.

But she blew (no pun intended) him up to her circle, so even if they were to try again, which if Jared has any pride, he'd say no, he'll have to deal with her friends looking at him funny.

[tenativelyyours]

On 11/19/2016 at 10:51 AM, Sheenieb said:

Any Being Mary Jane watchers here? If so, Molly reminds me of MJ. They can't help setting their blessings on fire.

But most people are progressive in name only. As soon as we have to prove it, we revert back to traditional mores. Jared's exploration conversation should've been kept between them, or if she wanted to tell her best friend, okay. Though I do think that certain conversations should be between partners only. Everyone doesn't have to know your business.

But she blew (no pun intended) him up to her circle, so even if they were to try again, which if Jared has any pride, he'd say no, he'll have to deal with her friends looking at him funny.

 

I think this might have been some well written subtle context being given here.  Molly took the initial no college reaction from the same crowd and pretty much forgot the fact that by the end of the night it seemed that maybe that same crowd found Jared just fine and dandy.  It was that initial judgement that she already had in part coupled with the League invite that had her wave bye.  So coming in willing to tell seems like it is in character that she was already done with him and just needed validation knowing she was giving in to some issues she knew on the surface are not what she would like to think of herself and yet deep down, are.  Same method too.  Just like she keeps with Jared for a bit before the League invite as if things are fine; by telling the group a detail that bothered her so much, she was already changing the locks.  The head bobbing just flipped a switch she already had wired. 

The double standard on lesbian versus gay "exploration" is all the more bitterly 'funny' since it ties into a sort of approved conservatively patriarchal "kink".  Two girls are hot... to straight men.  At least that is the meme.  But that rests on the idea that two girls together have any desire to include some guy.  Or any guy.  Poor Molly.  Not just homophobic but a homophobic straight gen-x male. 

[Ohwell]

Well, if I had some concern about whether a man I met was gay or bi or pansexual or WTFever and I, therefore, decided to drop-kick him, and someone called me homophobic, then so be it.  I could live with that.

Edited November 20, 2016 by Ohwell
typo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

There are some things where if you try it once, I will judge you and label you. If you kill someone once, you are a murderer. If you touch a kid once, you are a child molester. But if you have some kind of sexual contact with someone who's the same gender once, that doesn't make you gay. Trying cocaine once doesn't make you a cokehead and going skinnydipping one time doesn't make you a nudist. You're allowed to try things without making a lifelong commitment. Molly isn't gay because she hooked up with some chick in college and Jared isn't gay because he hooked up with some guy years ago. Molly was being a judgmental hypocrite since she did the exact same thing. But I'm glad that she went with her instincts and dropped him for that because he deserves better than to have her keep yanking his chain. Yes, I like you! Oh, I'm too busy to date anyone right now! Hey, I'm drunk so I'm going to show up at your house and say, "Let's fuck!" Now you're too gay for me! At least now he can exit the Molly roller coaster and find someone who is more deserving of his attention.

Loved Kelli's fingertip analogy. And man, she has the best friends if they all agreed to see her cousin's play. I think we've all been there at least once, forced to see someone's shitty band/play/poetry/performance art and wishing you could get that two hours of your life back. I totally love Kelli so I hope we get to see more of her next season.

[DearEvette]

Oh, god that Jesus play was every sort of bad and wrong.  Tyler Perry Origin story indeed.   I love that Molly couldn't see because some lady wore her church hat. Ha!

Kelli brings the funny every time. 

I liked Molly at first but now I just want to grab her by the throat and shake her.  She is a self sabotager to the 100th degree.  And she simply doesn't see it.  Regards Jared and her issues with him, I don't see it as a right or wrong thing.  I think the language about sexual identity is a very complex one and many people are just learning how to speak to it.  In the case of sexuality, people are used to thinking in binary, one thing or another.  Shit, people still have problems conceptualizing bisexuality.  Gender identity is another example of that.  Most people can't wrap their head around someone not being either male or female.  Even enlightened people who are really tolerant and even just a little more woke about sex/gender issues struggle with how to address gender fluid folks and even understanding gender fluidity.  Understanding how sexuality works on a spectrum, how some things are not absolute etc. isn't something someone from Molly's background or social circle would have had to confront.  I doubt she is some raging homophobe, but she is ignorant and she does have some fairly rigid boxes she checks when it come to men and relationships.  Otherwise a woman like her would have had a stable guy.

But outside of all of that, I think Jared is just a bad match for Molly.  He does seem a little young for her.  And frankly her pursuit of him  doesn't feel like it is coming from a place where she really digs him, but more from desperation.

Anyway, I am glad that this was included in the show and I hope Issa continues to explore this stuff.  It is high time this subject filters over from the domain of  activists and gender studies where the exposure is to  a very different audience, into a black pop culture domain.

[Holmbo]

Interesting that so many seem to find the man om man experience a red flag. I can understand if someone feels it is a deal breaker because it's a turn of for them. But to make it a logical conclusion that "he ones tried sex with a man and therefore there's a chance he's not actually sexually attracted to me" seems so far of.

I agree that Issa's physical abuse fantasy was very disturbing. It doesn't fit with anything we've seen of their relationship or how she seems to feel about it. It seems very weird that would be her worst case scenario rather than him being completely hearth broken. Maybe we're meant to take it as her sort of punishing herself in her mind.

[aradia22]

This episode it felt like they were showing a lot of nudity and sex scenes just because they could. It got dull real fast. I get it. It's on HBO.

Molly's plot this episode seemed more about her own insecurity than gender issues. I don't think she can trust that things are just going well. She needed to find a problem with him. It was a reflection of her own insecurity/low self-esteem. 

Issa's plot dragged. Really impromptu ring shopping? It felt like they were just deferring the reveal.

[aradia22]

Quote

I didn't find that violent scene with Lawrence to be funny or amusing, just disturbing.

It seemed like an odd choice because he's never shown any signs of being violent and we don't know enough about Issa's background to know if she grew up with any kind of violence and would expect that reaction. Typically those two would be the cues for us to understand that kind of a fantasy sequence. So then it becomes maybe Issa jumping to the worst possible scenario because she's anxious or imagining something dangerous as an excuse to avoid telling Lawrence. But then it is also sadly a realistic possibility for a woman no matter how great a relationship seems.

Quote

Yeah it's interesting that she imagined Lawrence would hit her on finding out but nothing in the way they portrayed his character suggests he'd be violent.

[nicepebbles]

I'm just catching up on this show. I don't have much to add about the Molly storyline except. I wanted to strangle her. I can't say if Jared is a good dude or not for her since all we saw of him was little bits here and there. For all we know and she knows, he could've been the one she could've been in a relationship with for the next few years or whatever. But no, she can't sit her ass down and evaluate the situation. I'm glad he told her he was tired. Not just, I want to go to sleep. Also, I'm tired of your nonsense. Girl, bye! Issa didn't lie when she said the common denominator is Molly. 

I did find this episode a little off like it wasn't in the same vein as the other episodes. Like all of a sudden Molly needing therapy. I never got that impression from the first few episodes. Her behavior as far as the drinks harkens back to the engagement party. The drinking there made sense. It didn't feel right to me here. Like they needed some excuse for Issa and Molly to fight and had Molly OCC. 

I can't say I'm all upset that Issa and Lawrence are over as far. I'm not really even sure what the problems are/were in their relationship. Was it just him having no job that had him being a terrible boyfriend? Was his behavior causing her to resent him? Or was it they are/were both growing apart but it's being masked by the lack of job? 5 year is a hell of a long time. I mean ring shopping seemed out of nowhere, which after 5 years, come on? Issa should've have cheated. Maybe it was what needed to happen. Rip the bandaid off. Trying to fix what should stay broken. 

Now on a perfectly, shallow note: Jared is so cute! Man! Prior to watching the show, I've seen pictures of the guy that plays Lawrence. I didn't think he had all that. Nice ass! The guy that plays Daniel reminds me a little of Chad Boseman. Man, I wouldn't kick either of them out of bed. Woo!