S23.E10: Week 7

[tessaforever]

29 minutes ago, Mittengirl said:

Well, to be fair to Laurie, and homeschooling, I don't think her mind was on the sixties when Erin asked her question.  She was probably thinking about what she had just done and wondering what her scores would be.  Anyone can be made to look dim when caught off-guard.  And as far as her giggling about bra burning, maybe it was more about talking about it on national television.

 

I graduated from h.s. In the mid-80's and we briefly covered the Vietnam war, the civil rights movement and Watergate at the very end of the year.   Probably all jammed in to a week or so.

I remember that one of my history teachers lamented how they started each year with the intention of studying history right up to the present, but always got only to about WW2 before the year ended. So I actually don't remember ever studying the 60s in school - and I was a history major! 

[RedFiat]

4 hours ago, spanana said:

That makes no sense to me.  If Calvin has a medical reason that keeps him from pointing his toes then there is nothing he can do about it.  I'm not saying he shouldn't be penalized for things where he legitimately messes up, but how can you penalize him for something is incapable of fixing?  Or are you talking about some other foot issue?  I heard nothing from Calvin or Lindsay about him not being able to perform some of the steps due to foot issues.  Just that he had trouble pointing his toes due to injury.   Nor did he score a 10 for his dance last night, so the judges didn't think it was perfection either.

A 9 was an overscore.  The guy did NOTHING for 32 bars.  He did as little Jive as possible.  You can smile and be a happy boy all you want, but at some point you gotta actually Jive.   

[RedFiat]

9 hours ago, movement said:

Relax Redfiat.  I think TPTB will do all they can to get James in the finals.  But I agree with Thadeeeyus and Len--it looked more like a jive.  You don't have to throw Calvin, or anyone else for that matter, under the bus in order to elevate James.  Besides, he's already captured the DWTS women viewers' hearts.  You should be enjoying things because they've even maneuvered to bring Laurie back to the pack. 

It looked more like a Jive?  Please tell me what Jive steps were incorporated because I didn't see any.  

[LotusFlower]

1 hour ago, McManda said:

Anything's possible, I suppose, but it would be surprising to me, mostly because she's so open about her battle with addiction to drugs. Why hide a drinking problem? Plus, she's more familiar than most with the signs of addiction and based on the fight she put up to bring herself out of one addiction I don't know that she'd fall into another. 

I think it's more likely that she's just a case study for the results of a life of high stress, high expectations, hard drug use, countless therapy sessions, and Prozac.

But she wasn't hiding it.  She was drinking out in the open.  And like I said above, she had to address it because the show was about health and fitness and diet.  Also, addicts falling victim to a second drug of choice (or third, or fourth...) is unfortunately pretty common.  It's the addict in them.  Even if rehab teaches you the triggers and signs to look out for, the urges and addictive personality never goes away.  It's a constant fight, and the drug often wins.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Dancing With The Stars Hops Through History

Each couple gets to represent a different era, but the rehearsals reveal that some of the participants need a history lesson.

[kitcloudkicker]

13 minutes ago, Mittengirl said:

Well, to be fair to Laurie, and homeschooling, I don't think her mind was on the sixties when Erin asked her question.  She was probably thinking about what she had just done and wondering what her scores would be.  Anyone can be made to look dim when caught off-guard.  And as far as her giggling about bra burning, maybe it was more about talking about it on national television.

 

There was a bit in that after-dance interview with Erin in particular, where I think they were referencing some inside jokes about what happened in the dress rehearsal (which is notoriously full of off-color quips from Tom). Like they had practiced that bit, and something funny happened, and the callback to that made it look like it sort of threw Laurie off. Right after Erin asks that question, Val leans in and says, "Keep it clean, this is the 'real one'" which makes Laurie get giggly. 

[Zoeey]

Going to be honest here, British IndyCar fan and I'm only watching for James like I did for Helio all them years ago.

What I will say, however, is that I do follow Strictly and this is not the first time that Len has came to blows with Gleb. He was putting all the focus on himself rather than his celeb in his first few dances if I recall correctly (I think there might of been something about content too). 

[BW Manilowe]

8 hours ago, tessaforever said:

He needs to watch Derek and Val and how they respond to the judge's comments...usually they just smile. Or if Val responds (like with the lift comment to Carrie Ann), it's a funny response, not a defensive one. 

He was with Lisa Vanderpump, I think. Her age made it hard to take the sexy angle for their partnership, but I do remember an execrable dance with her as a flight attendant I think? 

Len is really bugging me, actually. I would be fine with his cranky comments if he were consistent, but he randomly praises people (who haven't done a great job) and tears down people (who have). It's funny but the truth often comes out in his scoring - he'll give someone a tongue bath for "coming out and giving it their all" and then score them so-so.  

I think Len lost my affection when he pretended to retire, then came back after taking one season off. I'm still confused about that, actually...

I've been keeping track, and last night and last week were the first 2 times that Julianne's score for Derek was higher than the other judges'. She needs to rein it back in for sure. 

Agreed about regular homeschooling vs. athlete homeschooling - notice when Lindsay and Witney couldn't get one question right on their "Jeopardy" segment a few seasons ago, no one said "That's a good argument against our school system". Laurie is adorable, a hard worker, and a great gymnast but she's not sharp. I homeschool my kids (they're 16 & 13) and they are super sharp - ask them a question about anything and they'll have an intelligent reply. But they would probably do well in any kind of school setting, and they're doing schoolwork all day long, not fitting it in after long practices.  

I might be wrong, but I don't think Len ever pretended to retire, or outright said he was going to. I thought he did the same thing then that he did this season--take time off to stay in the UK & devote himself to his Strictly Come Dancing Judge's position because he's getting/gotten to the age where a weekly international commute/time change/etc. is a bigger physical drain than it used to be (but Bruno, who's younger than him by at least 10 years, I think, still commutes between DWTS & SCD weekly) & because he's also had some health issues during the run of at least DWTS--I remember reading he had been treated for prostate cancer, I'm almost positive it was, between 2 sort of early DWTS seasons. And he also got married (re-married?) at some point in DWTS history & his wife & family (I think he has adult-ish kids from an earlier marriage) stay in the UK.

[tessaforever]

3 hours ago, BW Manilowe said:

I might be wrong, but I don't think Len ever pretended to retire, or outright said he was going to. I thought he did the same thing then that he did this season--take time off to stay in the UK & devote himself to his Strictly Come Dancing Judge's position because he's getting/gotten to the age where a weekly international commute/time change/etc. is a bigger physical drain than it used to be (but Bruno, who's younger than him by at least 10 years, I think, still commutes between DWTS & SCD weekly) & because he's also had some health issues during the run of at least DWTS--I remember reading he had been treated for prostate cancer, I'm almost positive it was, between 2 sort of early DWTS seasons. And he also got married (re-married?) at some point in DWTS history & his wife & family (I think he has adult-ish kids from an earlier marriage) stay in the UK.

Okay, I guess I misinterpreted it then. When he danced with Nastia at the end of Derek & Nastia's dance, I thought that was his final goodbye to the show and I was in tears. I really thought the show was presenting it that way. Imagine my surprise when he was back two seasons later!

[boyznkatz]

I just have to roll my eyes these days when ANYONE on dwts says this is their last season.

[Vinyasa]

I was sorry to see Maureen go before Terra.

I do think Maureen was ready to go but would have liked her to last a little longer.

Wish Julianne could be voted off.

[sparrowtime]

11 hours ago, RedFiat said:

It looked more like a Jive?  Please tell me what Jive steps were incorporated because I didn't see any.  

Listening to old Grumpy Pants Len say he wanted "more jitterbug" in the dance and mb posters parroting the same thing prompted me to do a little research. I watched six championship jitterbug competitions on YT and lo and behold, James and Sharna danced a classic jitterbug! Every move they did was pure jitterbug and the  pro couples I watched incorporated all of them into the various routines. Jitterbug is under the Swing banner and there is a lot of leeway for the choreography. 

[RedFiat]

Well there it is. Thanks for fact checking  Len. It seems some want to take his word as gospel. While I very often agree with him, at least in the past when he stuck to judging, I find myself wondering at times where he is coming from.  That jitterbug can't look like a jive for the simple reason that it had lifts. If any of those lifts were in the jive you would have to dock points.  The reason that ballroom jive does not allow lifts is so that they do not detract from proper dance technique, proper footwork, and dance position with a bent instead of a straight arm so that you maintain control of any swing outs.  If a person dances jitterbug with the polish of good footwork, good arm control it makes no sense to dock them.  Jitterbugs can look smooth or rougher, more flat footed, but neither is incorrect. In a weird way James got a compliment from Len who saw good enough technique to be jive worthy. 

On the jive poor technique like flat footed, or overcompensating with weird technique should be docked, because that is what you are looking for on that dance. 

Edited October 26, 2016 by RedFiat

[realdancemom]

25 minutes ago, sparrowtime said:

Listening to old Grumpy Pants Len say he wanted "more jitterbug" in the dance and mb posters parroting the same thing prompted me to do a little research. I watched six championship jitterbug competitions on YT and lo and behold, James and Sharna danced a classic jitterbug! Every move they did was pure jitterbug and the  pro couples I watched incorporated all of them into the various routines. Jitterbug is under the Swing banner and there is a lot of leeway for the choreography. 

 

12 hours ago, RedFiat said:

A 9 was an overscore.  The guy did NOTHING for 32 bars.  He did as little Jive as possible.  You can smile and be a happy boy all you want, but at some point you gotta actually Jive.   

 

12 hours ago, RedFiat said:

It looked more like a Jive?  Please tell me what Jive steps were incorporated because I didn't see any.  

James and Sharna's jitterbug did look like a jitterbug to me too and not a jive.   Their first lift had a rough landing but that might have to do with Sharna 's injury.  A lot of their lifts look too similar too.  The lifts alone would make their dance look like a jitterbug and not a jive.  But even their dance steps looked more like a jitterbug than jive. 

However, I also don't remember Calvin not doing anything for 32 bars.   Calvin's smile and energy is one of the reasons I enjoy watching him dance.  I would take that over Maureen's deer in the headlights look, Amber's trepidation, or Marilu's stiff and tensed posture.

[RedFiat]

Watch the beginning of Calvins jive and see how long it takes to get to any actual Jive .. And you can't count the flat footed Swing steps, that's not Jive that's doing something that looks like jive when you can't do the proper technique 

Edited October 26, 2016 by RedFiat

[iMonrey]

Quote

I might be wrong, but I don't think Len ever pretended to retire, or outright said he was going to. 

At the very least, he was only going to do one of two seasons (can't remember if it was supposed to be fall or spring). And at the time they certainly treated it as if they were saying a final good-bye. Now he's back to hopping back and forth.

[boyznkatz]

14 hours ago, Mittengirl said:

Well, to be fair to Laurie, and homeschooling, I don't think her mind was on the sixties when Erin asked her question.  She was probably thinking about what she had just done and wondering what her scores would be.  Anyone can be made to look dim when caught off-guard.  And as far as her giggling about bra burning, maybe it was more about talking about it on national television.

My boys are about her age, and they don't know much about the sixties. They go to public school and they discuss civil rights and such, but things like bra burning would be foreign to them. Laurie is a little girl, so I'd give her a pass. That was odd of Erin to even ask about that.

[birkenstock]

I thought James took longer to start his Jitterbug than Calvin and Lindsey starting their Jive.  Calvin and Lindsey got out of the car and then started dancing.  James was playing cards with the troupe and then checking out Sharna, which I liked because it established the character and I thought that the second of the butterfly he did showed personality.        

[spanana]

10 minutes ago, boyznkatz said:

My boys are about her age, and they don't know much about the sixties. They go to public school and they discuss civil rights and such, but things like bra burning would be foreign to them. Laurie is a little girl, so I'd give her a pass. That was odd of Erin to even ask about that.

I got the impression that Erin had asked the same question during the show dress rehearsal.  Hence her saying something to Val and Laurie about not giving the R rated answer from earlier.  I think it's a long standing tradition that often the celebs/pros/hosts get a little crass during dress and of course answer things in such a way that they would never do on live television, but I do think Erin asks many of the same questions at dress that she does during the live show, of course tweaking in real time as necessary.  So I think most of the time the live show questions aren't a surprise to folks.

I also think it might be partially born out of the fact that DWTS was posting these little fun fact videos during the week where the pro/celeb had to sit there and give facts about their era so people could guess what they were doing.  Clearly the pros/celebs were just reading off cue cards though.  But yes, I think it's fair that Laurie's mind was elsewhere and thinking about her dance/scores.  I don't remotely think Laurie isn't smart.  I just think she has very limited awareness of the world outside of her very narrow spectrum, which isn't uncommon for teenagers.  Hopefully she will be curious about the world and eventually broaden her mindset.

[iMonrey]

Quote

That was odd of Erin to even ask about that.

Most of what Erin asks is odd. It's a wonder she hasn't asked Jana and Gleb why they haven't kissed yet. Thank God Laurie is only sixteen. 

[RedFiat]

1 hour ago, birkenstock said:

I thought James took longer to start his Jitterbug than Calvin and Lindsey starting their Jive.  Calvin and Lindsey got out of the car and then started dancing.  James was playing cards with the troupe and then checking out Sharna, which I liked because it established the character and I thought that the second of the butterfly he did showed personality.        

But it's content - there wasn't enough Jive content in his dance.  The jitterbug had a lot of content, because the step sequences were all swing/jitterbug.

I would argue the complete opposite of Len.  The step sequences of the Jive were more swing than jive, Why? because they are much much easier to do.    

[birkenstock]

1 hour ago, RedFiat said:

But it's content - there wasn't enough Jive content in his dance.  The jitterbug had a lot of content, because the step sequences were all swing/jitterbug.

I would argue the complete opposite of Len.  The step sequences of the Jive were more swing than jive, Why? because they are much much easier to do.    

I'm asking as someone who only knows dance styles from dwts, was what James did with the troupe members in the beginning jitterbug content or do you mean that it was content that showed his musicality and it fit well into the number? I enjoyed his dance - especially, considering Sharna was hurt and he was trying to ensure she wouldn't get injured further on the lifts.  I think it was a great week for him overall in terms of dancing and how they showed him in the dances packages.  Really hoping that Sharna can dance with him Monday. 

Also, would Calvin have benefited from having shoes with a heel for this dance to make him appear less flat footed?  I looked at other jives from dwts and dance competition and saw that Calvin had many of the same steps as the other couples did.  Was it less content because his technique turned it into more of a swing/jitterbug or was it that Lindsay designed the dance as a hybrid swing/jitterbug/jive? It would be nice if they went back to earlier seasons and had the pros show the night's dances so we knew what was technically correct or the dance standards.  

I'm ready to see Calvin do other dance styles. Having him do the Charleston and the Jive, and even the Jazz number, was a disservice to him because they were close in style and feel.  I love his personality and partnership with Lindsay, but am ready for them to shake it up. 

Edited October 26, 2016 by birkenstock

[Vinyasa]

11 hours ago, BW Manilowe said:

I've been keeping track, and last night and last week were the first 2 times that Julianne's score for Derek was higher than the other judges'. She needs to rein it back in for sure. 

Interesting. I'm going to start to pay attention to her scores for Derek's dances because she is to be scoring Marilu.

I wish so much she wasn't a judge.

[rr2911]

On ‎10‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 6:00 PM, spanana said:

That makes no sense to me.  If Calvin has a medical reason that keeps him from pointing his toes then there is nothing he can do about it.  I'm not saying he shouldn't be penalized for things where he legitimately messes up, but how can you penalize him for something is incapable of fixing?  Or are you talking about some other foot issue?  I heard nothing from Calvin or Lindsay about him not being able to perform some of the steps due to foot issues.  Just that he had trouble pointing his toes due to injury.   Nor did he score a 10 for his dance last night, so the judges didn't think it was perfection either.

Well that's the reason the show should choose the celebrities carefully. How can you judge an individual who can't perform certain parts of a routine even though he has a medical issue? I'm saying how can he ever receive a 10 when he can't point his toes for example, albeit for medical reasons?

[Mondayeve]

Quote

James was playing cards with the troupe

He was but not just haphazardly playing cards.  There was a rhythm to it.  I thought it was a clever opening and I loved it.  Of course YMMV.

However, I am not arguing that Calvin did not dance right away because I liked his first steps.  I think it is very difficult for the pros to choreo something that gets into the character of the dance without the risk of the audience feeling it is not really dancing.   To me if they are dusting or sweeping then it is not dancing, but if there is a rhythm that starts the dance off until they get into the main dance I'm okay with that especially if the intro is brief.

[spanana]

1 hour ago, rr2911 said:

Well that's the reason the show should choose the celebrities carefully. How can you judge an individual who can't perform certain parts of a routine even though he has a medical issue? I'm saying how can he ever receive a 10 when he can't point his toes for example, albeit for medical reasons?

But Calvin could perform the routine.  He just couldn't point his toes.  It's not like they left out an entire section of steps.  He did the steps, just not with toes fully pointed.  And that isn't going to be an issue in every dance.  In a waltz and things along those lines, that is not going to be a limitation.  I'd also argue that half the celebs who can physically point their toes don't manage it anyway, so that doesn't really set Calvin back all that much comparatively. 

Also by those standards, the show would be cutting their celeb roster in half.  Forget all the athletes with injuries.  They also would never cast anyone with a disability so sorry Amy Purdy, Noah and etc.  By that criteria, we would also be knocking Terra out.

[kitcloudkicker]

13 minutes ago, spanana said:

But Calvin could perform the routine.  He just couldn't point his toes.  It's not like they left out an entire section of steps.  He did the steps, just not with toes fully pointed.  And that isn't going to be an issue in every dance.  In a waltz and things along those lines, that is not going to be a limitation.  I'd also argue that half the celebs who can physically point their toes don't manage it anyway, so that doesn't really set Calvin back all that much comparatively. 

Also by those standards, the show would be cutting their celeb roster in half.  Forget all the athletes with injuries.  They also would never cast anyone with a disability so sorry Amy Purdy, Noah and etc.  By that criteria, we would also be knocking Terra out.

You actually would be cutting out anyone who was not a professional dancer. As anyone who didn't have years of dance conditioning would never be able to "fully execute" the steps, with full extension, flexibility, etc.

[crossover]

22 hours ago, RedFiat said:

It looked more like a Jive?  Please tell me what Jive steps were incorporated because I didn't see any.  

Really didn't mean for a back and forth.  I just expected to see more of a couple interaction rotating, turning, swinging out/in, etc.  I guess I like the shadow move as well.  Emphasis on the knee action in the beginning, foot placement, the steady fast pace reminded me more of jive.  I know they went with mostly tricks which is smart because the audience like them best.   I thought the beginning was cute and it put you in the mood.   Really the middle part was more broadway.  There's really not that much of a difference between the two.  You and others got the jitterbug feel.  I got the jive feel.

[escape]

2 hours ago, rr2911 said:

Well that's the reason the show should choose the celebrities carefully. How can you judge an individual who can't perform certain parts of a routine even though he has a medical issue? I'm saying how can he ever receive a 10 when he can't point his toes for example, albeit for medical reasons?

They were lucky to get someone like Calvin Johnson, who has turned out to be a fan favorite.

I actually wish DWTS was more discriminatory in not casting ringers who have dance experience, training.

Edited October 27, 2016 by escape

[srpturtle80]

There was this part of Team Past rehearsing, while the pros were choreographing and the stars were all chilling out, where James was pretending to be a wildlife explorer... "here we have professional dancers in the wild...". Calvin was sitting next to him giggling like a little kid. I was absolutely rolling, it was so funny! 

I'm only watching this season because of Calvin, but James has completely won me over. He seems like such an awesome guy! 

[Anisky]

On 10/24/2016 at 8:47 PM, 1kittykitty said:

Laurie Hernandez just made a strong statement against home schooling as she has no historical background knowledge of the 60's.  I know lots of elementary students who could say more than she did.  At least she's worked on the odd facial expressions since last week.

It totally reminded me of a moment in the documentary "The Ranch", which was about the USA Women's Team Gymnastics Training Center broadly and about the selection of the 2016 Olympic team more specifically. It had a segment on Laurie and her gym and homeschooling. Interviewer questions about a history report she has to write results in this hilarious gem from Laurie: "Julius Caesar was a Roman pretty cool dude who was stabbed like 10,000 times by Brutus." 

Adorable/funny? Yes. Lending credence to the above observation? Also yes. 

 

On 10/25/2016 at 11:01 PM, Mittengirl said:

Well, to be fair to Laurie, and homeschooling, I don't think her mind was on the sixties when Erin asked her question.  She was probably thinking about what she had just done and wondering what her scores would be.  Anyone can be made to look dim when caught off-guard.  And as far as her giggling about bra burning, maybe it was more about talking about it on national television.

 

I graduated from h.s. In the mid-80's and we briefly covered the Vietnam war, the civil rights movement and Watergate at the very end of the year.   Probably all jammed in to a week or so.

True. Being "sharp" in regular situations versus during live TV are two very different things. Drawing a blank in a stressful situation isn't unusual, and I think she may have had especial reason to do so, as I'll explain in a moment.

On 10/25/2016 at 11:33 PM, tessaforever said:

I remember that one of my history teachers lamented how they started each year with the intention of studying history right up to the present, but always got only to about WW2 before the year ended. So I actually don't remember ever studying the 60s in school - and I was a history major! 

Same! Always exactly the same, lol. My history classes were always supposed to get to the present, but never got past WWII, let alone the 60s. 

12 hours ago, spanana said:

I got the impression that Erin had asked the same question during the show dress rehearsal.  Hence her saying something to Val and Laurie about not giving the R rated answer from earlier.  I think it's a long standing tradition that often the celebs/pros/hosts get a little crass during dress and of course answer things in such a way that they would never do on live television, but I do think Erin asks many of the same questions at dress that she does during the live show, of course tweaking in real time as necessary. 

This probably made Laurie feel even more "on the spot" than most would be, because she's probably very cognizant that she's expected to be a good role model to many little girls in gymnastics classes all over the country. Even though theoretically little kids shouldn't be watching this show, she probably still feels a lot of pressure not to say anything that would make her look like a bad role model. Many-- maybe even most-- of the first things the average person thinks of when they think of the 60s are... not very little-kid-friendly. She was probably nervous about not saying something that she'd get grief over later, which would also contribute to her blanking. 

On 10/25/2016 at 7:00 PM, spanana said:

That makes no sense to me.  If Calvin has a medical reason that keeps him from pointing his toes then there is nothing he can do about it.  I'm not saying he shouldn't be penalized for things where he legitimately messes up, but how can you penalize him for something is incapable of fixing?

Ehhhh... I'm not sure that I agree.  In a way this sort of goes back to what Gleb saying about how it's not a dance contest, it's a TV entertainment show, and whether or not he'll get in hot water for saying that. 

Because... yes, in a dance contest, of course someone would be penalized for something they were incapable of fixing. If someone who wanted to be a professional dancer couldn't point their toes, then they wouldn't be able to be a professional dancer, end of story. There's no world where they'd get a pass during auditions because it's out of their control. A good friend of mine who trained to be a ballet dancer her whole life had an injury where the result was that she could no longer lift her left leg above waist level while it was straight. And that was the end of her aspirations to be a dancer. That's just how it goes. 

While obviously none of the celebrities on this show are planning to become professional dancers, I *can* see how you could penalize him for not being able to point his toes. 

That said, I mean, he was wearing pretty normal-looking shoes during that dance, I don't know to what degree you could see a toe point inside those shoes anyway. 

 

One last thought: kinda rolled my eyes at Bruno, the self-professed fan of Sci-Fi, comparing "Team Future"'s performance primarily to Star Trek. As the dancers and choreographers for Team Future said, most of it was supposed to portray a dystopia. The other judges picked up on that, talking about Divergent and whatnot, so they obviously succeeded. Star Trek is a very utopian imagining of the future-- the exact opposite of what Team Future was doing. It really sounded like he was throwing out Sci-Fi references without having any idea at all what they were actually about. 

[Lonesome Rhodes]

OK. After further review, and review, and review...I am officially calling it:  James evoked Ray Bolger in the Canteen dance (Jitterbug).

I also noticed in the Team Past dance that Calvin's brief "solo" with Lindsay was ridonkulous.  My goodness, how he twirled her 'round!  No other DWTS celeb has ever had this man's smooth physicality.  Astounding.  Check it out if you still have it on DVR.

There's also a nice little moment I had forgotten in the dance.  The final shot was a very nice, wistful, farewell pose for Maureen.  That was as lovely a final moment in competition as any departing celeb has known.  (Yes, she didn't know it at that precise time, but in retrospect, I say it stands as a wonderful au revoir.)

[BW Manilowe]

12 hours ago, Vinyasa said:

Interesting. I'm going to start to pay attention to her scores for Derek's dances because she is to be scoring Marilu.

I wish so much she wasn't a judge.

I didn't say what you quoted about Julianne scoring Derek higher the last 2 weeks than the rest of the season. The last thing I posted was about Len's absence from DWTS. I'm not sure how I got credited with the Julianne & Derek comment.

[RedFiat]

7 hours ago, spanana said:

But Calvin could perform the routine.  He just couldn't point his toes.  It's not like they left out an entire section of steps.  He did the steps, just not with toes fully pointed.  And that isn't going to be an issue in every dance.  In a waltz and things along those lines, that is not going to be a limitation.  I'd also argue that half the celebs who can physically point their toes don't manage it anyway, so that doesn't really set Calvin back all that much comparatively. 

How a person is being judged is purely discretionary.  So Calvin has a medical reason for not pointing his toes.  But what is the excuse for the wonkly leg that looks more like a dog lifting his leg then flicka kicks?  Did the show care when Apolo Ohno had sickle feet and pointed them incorrectly? Yes. He got 7's on that dance. So the show will mark toes if they aren't pointed straight. Did the show care all that much when say Ty Murray couldn't move his hips a certain way because of years of being thrown off a bull?  The answer is yes, and marked him accordingly.   It also seems that people were looking for a reason to mark James down if he couldn't do the latin hip action.  Yeah, he has a doctor's note for that, and 18 months of rehab receipts after flatlining. but it is doubtful he would get away with it.   You may say pointing toes  is inconsequential, I say when Carrie Ann has to say "you dance your own way" meaning you don't dance properly, and still get a high score then there is something amiss.  

Edited October 27, 2016 by RedFiat

[gohawks]

James is not a great dancer. He is a surprisingly good dancer. He is also entertaining, charming, a great student,  and he has amazing chemistry with his pro. I also think his musicality and rhythm are sometimes barely there and I have yet to see any impressive hip action from him. I would describe Calvin exactly the same way.

Edited October 27, 2016 by gohawks

[RedFiat]

Given the extremely short amount of time James had to learn  so many standard dances compared to social dances, without any dance background whatsoever, he is probably up there as one of the better male dancers on the show. Hinch is probably his own worst critic, but the hip action on the Cha Cha was impressive, especially when repeated on the Ellen show.  Calvin is a basic football dancer, who gets graded on a curve, the judges make excuses for his own style, not dancing to the standard and usually wins because of their personality.  

Edited October 27, 2016 by RedFiat

[boyznkatz]

I would love to see Calvin and Lindsay (she's a sweetie) win, but it's obvious the show is heavily pimping Laurie and James for the final two. Whomever gets third is going to be an afterthought anyway. This show is so predictable. of course I'd love to be wrong and see Calvin pull a Donald Driver. They were pimping a showdown between Katherine Jenkins and William Levy that season, but somehow Donald managed to pull of the win. Of course Golden Boy will have to get his requisite ticket into the finals though, so who knows.

[Vinyasa]

Quote

Of course Golden Boy will have to get his requisite ticket into the finals though, so who knows.

Who is Golden Boy? Derek? I don't think he will get in the finals with Marilu.

[crowceilidh]

I don;t think Derek wants to get into the finals with Maureen.  Hasn't stuff already started up on his next project?

[spanana]

The judges will mark the celebs down for whatever they want, that is true.  And judging has always been purely subjective.  But I think the point to me in all this is that this is a reality television show where it's more about what story the producers want to tell then purely about it being a dance contest.  Gleb's delivery might not have been great and he hasn't really earned his stripes on DWTS to be mouthing off, but he wasn't wrong at all.  If this were a legit dance competition, we wouldn't have 16 year old Olympic champions competing against 60 plus women and etc.  There will never be a fair playing field on DWTS in terms of celebs (it would be impossible to find celebs all at the same level) and even if they could, it still wouldn't be a dance competition as long as the general public had a say in the outcome.  The people that generally vote on this show have no clue about ballroom dance or proper technique--they look for celebs/pros that they like and/or entertaining routines.

I have no problem if the judges want to ding Calvin.  He's far from a perfect dancer.  I think my sticking point on the toes issue is that the original comment was about how Calvin should never get a 10 if he can't point his toe.  Okay.  However that isn't an issue in many dances and even more to the point, he did not receive a 10 for his unpointed toes in the jive.  He received 9's.  Now I understand if people want to argue that those scores were still too high, but nobody has been handing Calvin 10's for unpointed toes, so it seems a rather moot point.

As for Derek, he just started Hairspray Live rehearsals.  It would actually be to his benefit to get kicked off next week so he can focus on his next gig.

Edited October 27, 2016 by spanana

[boyznkatz]

I agree with you, Spanana. I don't think Calvin deserves 10s. I'm not a dancer, but it's clear that he's not as good as Laurie. If this were a real dance contest, she would win hands down.

Gleb is absolutely right about it not being a dance contest. I don't think the judges should be mad when he was just stating what everyone already knows.

I would be highly surprised if Derek went anywhere next week. I think Jana is going to be the "surprise" elimination. They gotta teach Gleb a lesson!

[vibeology]

I don't see Derek and Marilu making it to the finals but I do think they've got a few weeks left. I do wonder about Jana and Gleb's voting totals. She's a middling country star, less famous as an actress and Gleb certainly isn't bringing many fans the way the more established pros can. Then you've got Ryan and Cheryl. They're both more popular but with Maureen gone, he's clearly the weakest dancer left. I would imagine Derek and Marilu have at least one more week, maybe two. I could even see them making the semi-finals if any of the other couples have a bad showing but I have a hard time picturing a scenario where they make the finals.

[RedFiat]

Other than Julianne saying the asinine comment that James is the best ever male dancer,  I don't think the show wants to pimp James necessarily.  That comment has angered more voters than helped James and probably sent them to Calvin.  If anything, the show is now overlooking Calvin's obvious shortcomings and marking him the same as James.  They won't care who comes out on top.  The Indy driver or the NFL player,  ESPN will be fine with whomever does well.  If the NFL fanbase kicks in, show's over.   James may have gained followers, but his natural fanbase has been shut out of the voting, so it will be interesting to see if he gets enough to get into the finals.  He has not had the luxury of messing up and the fanbase carry him, because it's been cut.  

Edited October 27, 2016 by RedFiat

[RedFiat]

33 minutes ago, vibeology said:

I don't see Derek and Marilu making it to the finals but I do think they've got a few weeks left. I do wonder about Jana and Gleb's voting totals. She's a middling country star, less famous as an actress and Gleb certainly isn't bringing many fans the way the more established pros can. Then you've got Ryan and Cheryl. They're both more popular but with Maureen gone, he's clearly the weakest dancer left. I would imagine Derek and Marilu have at least one more week, maybe two. I could even see them making the semi-finals if any of the other couples have a bad showing but I have a hard time picturing a scenario where they make the finals.

I don't know how it will all shake down but next week there will be another dance off.  According to Hinch there will be 3 styles  but the show won't tell them until Monday which style they will do, so they have to make sure they know 4 dance styles this weekend.  Their individual dance and then they will do one of 3 styles in the dance off.  Since there are 7 teams it makes sense that this will be an immunity challenge.  If it is like previous seasons, the highest score on the individual dance will not have to compete in the dance off and go through to the next week.  If Marilu gets immunity....   I think what would be interesting is the following match ups 

Laurie and Val vs.  James and Sharna  -Paso Doble 

Calvin and Lindsay vs. Ryan and Cheryl - Foxtrot 

Terra and Sasha vs.  Jana and Gleb - Samba

Edited October 27, 2016 by RedFiat

[boyznkatz]

Really? As much as I despise Ryan Lochte, a dance-off is extremely unfair to him, since everyone else is miles better than he is. That is a sure way to get him eliminated.

As much as I'd like to see him go, not that way.

[RedFiat]

2 minutes ago, boyznkatz said:

Really? As much as I despise Ryan Lochte, a dance-off is extremely unfair to him, since everyone else is miles better than he is. That is a sure way to get him eliminated.

As much as I'd like to see him go, not that way.

I don't know about that, if he is given a style like Foxtrot up against Calvin who has also struggled with in hold dances, you never know. But I think immunity is more for the person who can dance but lacks the fanbase vote.  Ryan certainly has a fanbase, he's been low most weeks and he's still there.   

[Lamb18]

On ‎10‎/‎24‎/‎2016 at 8:02 PM, McManda said:

 

At least when I was in high school (ten years ago), really anything post WWII was confined to a specialized class. We had "Recent American History", but that's about it. Even the AP classes really tapped out after WWII ... if you had some time towards the end of the ear you might get lucky and learn about Korea, Vietnam, Kennedy, civil rights, etc, but it was guaranteed to be rushed and very surface level.

I laugh/cringed at Marilu's comment to Laurie about the 60s - "You wouldn't be talking to him [Val]." I couldn't tell if it was because of the age difference, the fact that it was the height of the Civil Rights movement, or during the middle of the Cold War.

The Cold War - Russians were definitely the enemy and anyone who lived in the Soviet Union was "Russian," even if they were really Estonian, Ukrainian, Kazak, Georgian, Armenian, or whatever else.

[katha]

5 hours ago, boyznkatz said:

I agree with you, Spanana. I don't think Calvin deserves 10s. I'm not a dancer, but it's clear that he's not as good as Laurie. If this were a real dance contest, she would win hands down.

Gleb is absolutely right about it not being a dance contest. I don't think the judges should be mad when he was just stating what everyone already knows.

I would be highly surprised if Derek went anywhere next week. I think Jana is going to be the "surprise" elimination. They gotta teach Gleb a lesson!

The judges' criteria is basically: "Whatever." It's somewhat related to what the contestants are actually producing on the dancefloor, since otherwise it would put viewers off too much. But everything else is bound to be inconsistent and random: Sometimes lack of proper content is overlooked, sometimes smacked down. Same with props and messing around and lifts. Often enough a contestant stated in the package "I want a ten!", and then they miraculously got it. It's not a proper dance contest, it's an entertainment show and a reality show.

And the different starting points for the candidates is also a factor: You're exposing yourself by participating, the risk to embarass yourself on national TV is big. So if they want to recruit celebs after over twenty seasons, they can't be "realistic" in their scores. Maureen etc. can't be permanently stuck at four points or something, though that might be "fair" in relation to better dancers. So this will necessarily throw the scoring out of joint, since there's no way to properly acknowledge the differences in quality if your lowest paddle is seven.

ETA: Jana has jazz on immunity night next week, it wouldn't surprise me if she gets it. IMO she's looking like someone who perhaps struggles with votes and they might want to get her past this week so they can get rid of "weaker" dancers.

Edited October 27, 2016 by katha

[realdancemom]

4 hours ago, katha said:

The judges' criteria is basically: "Whatever." It's somewhat related to what the contestants are actually producing on the dancefloor, since otherwise it would put viewers off too much. But everything else is bound to be inconsistent and random: Sometimes lack of proper content is overlooked, sometimes smacked down. Same with props and messing around and lifts. Often enough a contestant stated in the package "I want a ten!", and then they miraculously got it. It's not a proper dance contest, it's an entertainment show and a reality show.

And the different starting points for the candidates is also a factor: You're exposing yourself by participating, the risk to embarass yourself on national TV is big. So if they want to recruit celebs after over twenty seasons, they can't be "realistic" in their scores. Maureen etc. can't be permanently stuck at four points or something, though that might be "fair" in relation to better dancers. So this will necessarily throw the scoring out of joint, since there's no way to properly acknowledge the differences in quality if your lowest paddle is seven.

ETA: Jana has jazz on immunity night next week, it wouldn't surprise me if she gets it. IMO she's looking like someone who perhaps struggles with votes and they might want to get her past this week so they can get rid of "weaker" dancers.

I agree with everything you said especially the last part where Jana will get immunity.  Jana is the only one that has jazz.  Nobody has contemporary next week.  Jazz and contemporary have less rules than Latin or ballroom so she won't get mark down for technique. 

[TeeMo]

Katha,  I agree 100% on your immunity prediction. When I heard the rumbling of an immunity challenge I immediately figured she'd be the one to get it. Knowing she has jazz makes that even more likely.