This Is Our Social & Cultural Issues Thread

[NutMeg]

Having spend all of my professional life in Europe and Asia so far, I'm amazed to read that you don't need to put a dollar in to get your shopping cart - when in the US, I should make a note to "real shop" at a supermarket rather than look for one or two items, and pick up a few more on the way.

Frozen veg are great to add in a stew or - even better! - to make a soup if you're slightly hungover, just add any fresh veg you have, herbs and spices, garlic, and all frozen veg. Although I don't like frozen broccoli, because I like my broccoli crisp. My favs are broad beans and edamame, I can use them in anything, salad, stew, snack...

[PRgal]

The cart deposit was mostly to stop people from stealing carts (I don't see too many of these in Toronto anymore).  The Whole Foods near me locks carts a certain distance away from the store.  And you can only take it to a specific level of the building's underground parking.

[AuntiePam]

One of the few benefits of small town living is a grocery store with employees who will take your cart out and load your car, without being asked.  In fact, they won't let you take the cart out yourself.  This means there's more space in the parking lot, since no space is needed for cart returns.  They don't lose carts or have to chase them down, and they don't need to hire someone to wrangle carts from the parking lot back into the store.  Win win, I say.

They also call for extra checkers if a line forms -- two people at a register, "more checkers, please".   I love this store.

[kieyra]

To the Aldi fans--do you not find their stuff pretty bland/flavorless? I tried a few times after the whole "it's just like Trader Joe's but cheaper" meme, but everything was obviously much lower quality.

I should mention that I'm not vegetarian and I live in a state with stupid expensive groceries (for reasons I haven't figured out yet--unless everyone here pays almost three bucks for one avocado?). I can't do cheap carbs because my body views cheap carbs as a reason to eat more cheap carbs and get fat. (Believe me, I wish I could live on pasta.) 

Anyway, so I tried Aldi, as I said, but I had the sensation of eating Walmart store-brand food, including those scary injected cuts of meat. I guess everyone has their tipping point on eating for pleasure versus eating for sustenance (versus a manageable grocery bill), and I like to enjoy my meals. Even the uber cheap ramen we bought mostly as a joke was bland compared to your more typical cheap ramen. Am I missing some Aldi hidden gems?

Hmm, it's late and I know I'm in a This is Us thread but for the life of me have no idea how we're discussing grocery bills. I will say "it's much cheaper to eat unhealthy foods--depending on where "healthy" lies on your food-dogma spectrum--and if you live in certain regions it's all out the window anyway." Healthy for me would be organic/grass fed meat that I really can't afford. 

[SlackerInc]

To keep it at least slightly in the social issues vein, I actually used to be sort of classist about Aldi (without ever having purchased their food).  I noted that it was favored by immigrants and other low income people, and assumed it would be bottom of the barrel generic/store brand stuff.

These days, as I said, I start every shopping trip there, but the things I get there are mostly not "products" but raw ingredients: oats; raisins; walnuts; organic extra virgin olive oil; coffee beans; oranges; milk; frozen organic blueberries.  And then there are a few more processed/prepared items I buy occasionally: hummus, specialty cheeses (especially the Irish cheese), and their 100% whole wheat bread.  I limit myself to one loaf per month, but I really love that bread.  I've tried a variety of brands of whole wheat bread, and theirs is my favorite.

I'm happy with all those products, but I can't vouch for any others.

[PRgal]

11 hours ago, SlackerInc said:

To keep it at least slightly in the social issues vein, I actually used to be sort of classist about Aldi (without ever having purchased their food).  I noted that it was favored by immigrants and other low income people, and assumed it would be bottom of the barrel generic/store brand stuff.

These days, as I said, I start every shopping trip there, but the things I get there are mostly not "products" but raw ingredients: oats; raisins; walnuts; organic extra virgin olive oil; coffee beans; oranges; milk; frozen organic blueberries.  And then there are a few more processed/prepared items I buy occasionally: hummus, specialty cheeses (especially the Irish cheese), and their 100% whole wheat bread.  I limit myself to one loaf per month, but I really love that bread.  I've tried a variety of brands of whole wheat bread, and theirs is my favorite.

I'm happy with all those products, but I can't vouch for any others.

 

Not all immigrants are lower income.  In the 80s, most of the Hong Kong immigrants were middle, some upper middle.  My cousin, for example, had a nanny/housekeeper (not uncommon for white collar professionals) and his mom had to learn how to cook/clean once they arrived because help was much more expensive here.  But they lived in a comfortable home in a comfortable area and attended one of the top public schools in the city.  Back in the 90s, there were also issues with/resentment towards some HK immigrants buying older homes, tearing them down and replacing them with McMansions. 

Regarding bread:  I'm really picky about my bread - especially ones I use for toast.  Right now, I'm using Kamut (generically called khorasan) bread - it's an ancient grain and lower in gluten than some other breads.  It's pricier, though.  I've also purchased spelt as well as breads made with wheat flour mixed with pulse flours (e.g. whole wheat and lentil bread).  I freeze most sandwich type breads, so it lasts around a month or so, maybe six weeks, so it's not like I'm purchasing it on a weekly basis (that won't be good on my wallet - ha!).  My mom thinks I'm wasting my money!  

[ShadowFacts]

In my town, lots of older people frequent Aldi.  I think it's not only for the low prices, it's also because Aldis are small, and it is difficult for lots of elders to get around a huge grocery store, even if mobility issues aren't visible. 

[HeySandyStrange]

19 hours ago, SlackerInc said:

To keep it at least slightly in the social issues vein, I actually used to be sort of classist about Aldi (without ever having purchased their food).  I noted that it was favored by immigrants and other low income people, and assumed it would be bottom of the barrel generic/store brand stuff.

Maybe I shouldn't ask, but are you sure it wasn't the store's clientele that was tipping off certain classist alarms?

[ClareWalks]

I occasionally go to dollar stores, but only for certain things. They're great for cheapo-party supplies, or for storage bins. I got a bunch of great bins for my son's toys for $1 each, and those don't have to be high quality. Dollar stores are inherently depressing places, though. They tend to be disorganized and chaotic and have lots of visibly-cheap merchandise.

[SlackerInc]

2 hours ago, HeySandyStrange said:

Maybe I shouldn't ask, but are you sure it wasn't the store's clientele that was tipping off certain classist alarms?

I don't understand the question.  Am I sure it wasn't?  I never said it wasn't--just the opposite.  I also tended to turn my nose up at Wal-Mart in those days.  Now Walmart and Aldi are where I do 99% of my grocery shopping.

[PRgal]

2 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

I occasionally go to dollar stores, but only for certain things. They're great for cheapo-party supplies, or for storage bins. I got a bunch of great bins for my son's toys for $1 each, and those don't have to be high quality. Dollar stores are inherently depressing places, though. They tend to be disorganized and chaotic and have lots of visibly-cheap merchandise.

Dollar stores are great for hangers, too.  

[SlackerInc]

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I think the implication was that it's not the store's goods you were afraid you might find inferior, it's the people who shop there you really don't want to be near.  You have classism masquerading as foodie-ism.  ; )

Ahhh...okay.  Well, maybe there was some of that!  Not consciously, but mixed in there somewhere.  I am not perfect, and I won't claim to be although I always strive to move closer to perfection.  In that vein, I learned my lesson when it came to Aldi.

[Katy M]

I was thinking about the birthday parties and how Randall's school had a rule that if you had a birthday party, you had to invite the whole class.  How could the school even control that?  I was done with birthday parties by that age, because like Randall, I didn't have too many friends, so I would just invite 2 or 3 kids over for my birthday 'party'.  But, I don't think before that, every kid in class was invited to parties.  I only remember going to a few, so I certainly wasn't getting invited to them all.  Seems insane.  Lots of people can't afford a 25 kid party.

[Kohola3]

13 minutes ago, Katy M said:

 

I was thinking about the birthday parties and how Randall's school had a rule that if you had a birthday party, you had to invite the whole class.

 

They are trying to make sure that there are no kids excluded.  Many do the same thing for Valentine's Day - each kid has to get cards from every other kid in the class.  Kids can be so cruel to outcasts.  

With that said, if your parents couldn't afford a party it would make you an object of scorn.  And with the extravaganzas that parents throw these days, I'm sure there are a lot of critics dissing you if your party didn't measure up.  It's a mess no matter how you look at it.

[Katy M]

Just now, Kohola3 said:

They are trying to make sure that there are no kids excluded.  Many do the same thing for Valentine's Day - each kid has to get cards from every other kid in the class.  Kids can be so cruel to outcasts.  

With that said, if your parents couldn't afford a party it would make you an object of scorn.  And with the extravaganzas that parents throw these days, I'm sure there are a lot of critics dissing you if your party didn't measure up.  It's a mess no matter how you look at it.

We had to give cards to everyone on Valentine's Day, but that actually happened at school.  Birthday parties happen at home, or at least not at school.  I'm just not seeing how they could, or even have the authority to, control such a thing.

[ShadowFacts]

6 minutes ago, Katy M said:

We had to give cards to everyone on Valentine's Day, but that actually happened at school.  Birthday parties happen at home, or at least not at school.  I'm just not seeing how they could, or even have the authority to, control such a thing.

In a private school, if the parents en masse balked at the rule, it would probably be gone.  Tuition-paying parents have a little more pull than in a public school. 

[Katy M]

30 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

They don't control who gets invited UNLESS the student passes out invites at school.  Then school rules apply.  So invite the whole class or pass out your invites elsewhere.  I'm sure the schools are encouraging the latter.  

Well, then why couldn't Jack and Rebecca just mail those 3 invitations out?  That's what I would have done.

[PRgal]

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

Well, then why couldn't Jack and Rebecca just mail those 3 invitations out?  That's what I would have done.

Because they might not have their addresses.  Perhaps they could have phoned the parents, but that only works if a class list was provided. 

[Tiger]

I dont have kids, but my friends, neighbors, colleagues, and cousins that do are constantly complaining about their kids' schools social engineering and retaliation against the parenta and kids when they don't follow the rules.  

I don't know whay exactly the schools do generally, but I do know one of his friend's wife was kicked off the PTA because they didnt invite the whole class to their son's birthday party.  

[Court]

It's really simple. Don't want to invite the whole class, don't pass out invites at the school. It's very easy to just email these days or call and get an address. Almost all invites are e-vites anyways.

All they do is just say you can't hand out invites at the school. Then they don't allow it.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Court

[Tiger]

5 minutes ago, Court said:

It's really simple. Don't want to invite the whole class, don't pass out invites at the school. It's very easy to just email these days or call and get an address. Almost all invites are e-vites anyways.

All they do is just say you can't hand out invites at the school. Then they don't allow it.

I think the issue is that kids talk about the party the next day/week in school and if some kids werent invited then they feel left out socially.  

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

There was an example of bullying in HBO's drama Big Little Lies this week that was exactly this.  A mom gave out party invites to a class to all but one boy.  

I don't know that I would call that "bullying."  It's rude and mean.  Especially since it's one kid. There's always room for one more.  But, if the class has 30 kids and you want a party with 10 kids, I don't see the big deal.  That's just life. And, there is the possibility (not talking about Big Little Lies as I have never even heard of the show before) that the reason you don't want to invite that one specific kid is because that he/she has been bullying you.  Who wants their bully at their birthday party?  It was bad enough that my dad became best buds with one of the mean girls' fathers.  I went and hid in my room every time he invited the family over.  Can't hide in your room during your own birthday party.

[SlackerInc]

11 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I feel like there is a leap being made here that somewhere in their marriage they made it clear that Jack would always have 'dibs' on the career opportunities and Rebecca would always be relegated to domestic duties.  I haven't seen anything to suggest Jack ever put such restrictions on her.  I don't think that's a normal marriage thing, either.  I think most people know that situations change and people roll with it if they want to move ahead as a couple.  I feel like that's kind of the normal basis of a marriage-- that you'll continue to support each other through life's changes, not expect anyone to remain frozen in their roles you start out in.  Women frequently go back to work when the kids are older and men frequently adapt to the new needs, whether it's a woman going back to school or traveling or whatever.  I feel like Jack's being written as very 1950s/jealous/controlling, not as some typical mid-90s devoted husband.

I think there's a huge difference between going back to work (often mainly while the kids are at school) and leaving town for a solid month.

[PRgal]

22 hours ago, Court said:

It's really simple. Don't want to invite the whole class, don't pass out invites at the school. It's very easy to just email these days or call and get an address. Almost all invites are e-vites anyways.

All they do is just say you can't hand out invites at the school. Then they don't allow it.

No e-vites in 1989 when the Big Three turned nine! :D

[BoogieBurns]

I remember having to hand out invites to my whole class. I actually used it as an excuse to invite the cute boy to my "boy/girl" party in 2nd grade. No cootie shots for me. But I purposely handed out my Aladdin invites out during class so the boys and girls would all be invited. The girls stayed the night, the boys left like 2 hours after the party started.

This was in 1993, but at a public school. So, not super different than the time frame for the Big Three's 10th.

[PRgal]

23 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I guess I'm just very flexible and independent.  My ex worked in Asia for months at a time regularly and it was no biggie.  I suppose I structured my life purposely to have flexibility, though.  I moved to where I have family and friends to help, always have supportive, flexible employers, and only had as many kids as I could raise single-handedly, if needed.  

I understand Jack and Rebecca don't get along with their folks but there's a conspicuous lack of 'village' for them.  Even if Shelly and Miguel are their only friends, you'd think there might be some offers to help out through the month.  Though maybe we'll see that occur. 

My dad was away most of the week by the time I was nine or ten.  My mom was working up until I was 12 or so, but when she quit, she started volunteering at my school, which kept her occupied.  Otherwise, she would have to deal with staying at home with my grandparents (who lived with us) and that isn't always fun.  My grandmother (my mom's mom), was probably one of the world's first helicopter parents! 

[jhlipton]

On 2/22/2017 at 3:48 PM, Chaos Theory said:

Nut allergies.

He can't be around me, then!  LOL

On 2/22/2017 at 4:06 PM, JudyObscure said:

 I read somewhere (not positive it's true) that lower income people spend thirty percent of their food budget on soft drinks. Here in Mountain Dew territory, I can believe it.

I like the "flavor packets" (like Kool-Aid, Hawaiian Punch, Crystal Light, etc).  Not too expensive and pretty tasty.

[PRgal]

11 hours ago, jhlipton said:

He can't be around me, then!  LOL

I like the "flavor packets" (like Kool-Aid, Hawaiian Punch, Crystal Light, etc).  Not too expensive and pretty tasty.

If you don't have much money, why spend it on powdered drinks when you can get water from your tap?  If it doesn't work, then you're likely buying bottled water, so why spend the additional money on powder AND the bottled water?  It's not something I truly understand.   But then again, I pretty much only drink water, tea and coffee (including lattes/cappuccinos, rarely, rarely sweetened), with the occasional nut milk or vegetable juice from our local juice bar (my favourite:  beet almond milk).

[mansonlamps]

42 minutes ago, PRgal said:

If you don't have much money, why spend it on powdered drinks when you can get water from your tap?  If it doesn't work, then you're likely buying bottled water, so why spend the additional money on powder AND the bottled water?  It's not something I truly understand.   But then again, I pretty much only drink water, tea and coffee (including lattes/cappuccinos, rarely, rarely sweetened), with the occasional nut milk or vegetable juice from our local juice bar (my favourite:  beet almond milk).

Because water doesn't taste as good to some people as powdered drink mixes?  And, apparently, they aren't that expensive so a good alternative to soda.  

[SlackerInc]

So bad for you though.  Even 100% fruit juice is really unhealthy.  

[DearEvette]

On 2/22/2017 at 4:06 PM, JudyObscure said:

I think that's our biggest savings of all.  I read somewhere (not positive it's true) that lower income people spend thirty percent of their food budget on soft drinks. Here in Mountain Dew territory, I can believe it.

USDA data for SNAP recipients indicated sugary drinks was the second highest food category money was spent on, coming it at 9% of total grocery budget.  For the rest of the population sugary beverages are the fifth highest food category money was spent on coming in at 7% of their total grocery budget.  In both cases, sugary drinks seem to be a problem.

Personally, in my household they'd come in waaay lower.  I used to love soda but about 10 years ago I had an epiphany and realized it was the carbonation I needed, not the sugar or the flavor.  So now I just do sparkling water as my go to beverage.

On 2/26/2017 at 10:53 AM, Court said:

It's really simple. Don't want to invite the whole class, don't pass out invites at the school. It's very easy to just email these days or call and get an address. Almost all invites are e-vites anyways.

All they do is just say you can't hand out invites at the school. Then they don't allow it.

 

When my kids were in grammar school. the district they were in had an opt-in directory where parents could include any or all: email, phone, & address in a directory to be distributed by classroom.  It was a life-saver for party & play date planning, especially since the school my kids went to kinds straddled a rural and suburban area and the kids were really far flung.   We moved when my youngest was going into fifth grade and were kinda bummed the new school didn't have anything similar.  made it a little bit  harder to try to plan things outside of school. 

[jhlipton]

On 2/28/2017 at 10:05 AM, PRgal said:

If you don't have much money, why spend it on powdered drinks when you can get water from your tap?  If it doesn't work, then you're likely buying bottled water, so why spend the additional money on powder AND the bottled water?  It's not something I truly understand.   But then again, I pretty much only drink water, tea and coffee (including lattes/cappuccinos, rarely, rarely sweetened), with the occasional nut milk or vegetable juice from our local juice bar (my favourite:  beet almond milk).

Most tap water doesn't taste that great to me, so for a few pennies (about 10 cents for a full bottle), I can get a flavor I like

(I actually prefer the Ice drinks -- a dollar per bottle -- but I can never find the flavors I like (Peach Nectarine, Black Cherry and Black Raspberry).

[methodwriter85]

On 2/28/2017 at 11:20 AM, SlackerInc said:

So bad for you though.  Even 100% fruit juice is really unhealthy.  

When I was in high school in the early 2000's (so about 5-7 years after the Big Three's high school time) I had a school nurse who told me juice is bad and that if anything, I should drink Diet Soda instead.

[BoogieBurns]

10 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

I should drink Diet Soda instead

We are the same age. I lived off Diet Dr Pepper in high school. In place of meals, even. That was when Atkins/South Beach Diet was REALLY popular so even doctors were saying Diet Sodas counted as water. I remember hearing those words and realizing I should find a new doctor. Nonsense! People were eating 12 slices of bacon for breakfast, bunless double cheeseburgers, jars of pickles for snacks, and diet drinks for hydration. All in the name of health. 

[Drumpf1737]

On 2/28/2017 at 7:05 AM, PRgal said:

If you don't have much money, why spend it on powdered drinks when you can get water from your tap? 

That wouldn't really work in places like Flint where the water is contaminated. 

Also spending 30% of your budget on softdrinks sounds like "fake news". 30% of $100 is $30; that's an awful lot of soda.  

Edited March 2, 2017 by Drumpf1737

[PRgal]

1 hour ago, Drumpf1737 said:

That wouldn't really work in places like Flint where the water is contaminated. 

Also spending 30% of your budget on softdrinks sounds like "fake news". 30% of $100 is $30; that's an awful lot of soda.  

But contaminated water won't work with powdered drinks either, since you need water to make it. 

[methodwriter85]

9 hours ago, BoogieBurns said:

We are the same age. I lived off Diet Dr Pepper in high school. In place of meals, even. That was when Atkins/South Beach Diet was REALLY popular so even doctors were saying Diet Sodas counted as water. I remember hearing those words and realizing I should find a new doctor. Nonsense! People were eating 12 slices of bacon for breakfast, bunless double cheeseburgers, jars of pickles for snacks, and diet drinks for hydration. All in the name of health. 

I lived on Diet Dr. Pepper as well as Diet Coke Lime.

It'd be funny to see a variety of diet trends and fads. (We've already seen grapefruit.) I can toooootaaaaallllyyyy see Rebecca trying to get Kate into doing pilates circa 2003. (I don't know yet if Kate was already too obese to do that by then.)

If we're in 1996-1997, I think kickboxing was the biggest trend.

[chocolatine]

2 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

It'd be funny to see a variety of diet trends and fads. (We've already seen grapefruit.) I can toooootaaaaallllyyyy see Rebecca trying to get Kate into doing pilates circa 2003. (I don't know yet if Kate was already too obese to do that by then.)

Pilates doesn't really help with weight loss, and it's pretty expensive if you do it at a studio. I've been doing Pilates for many years, and while it's great for strength and flexibility, even at the advanced level I have never lost a significant amount of weight from it. It does give me a nice shape and make my clothes fit better, but I'm still the same clothing size, if that makes any sense.

The women in my extended family who are Rebecca's age are still into cardio because that's what was popular when they started exercising. They still believe that strength training will bulk them up. 

Edited March 3, 2017 by chocolatine

[PRgal]

9 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Pilates doesn't really help with weight loss, and it's pretty expensive if you do it at a studio. I've been doing Pilates for many years, and while it's great for strength and flexibility, even at the advanced level I have never lost a significant amount of weight from it. It does give me a nice shape and make my clothes fit better, but I'm still the same clothing size, if that makes any sense.

The women in my extended family who are Rebecca's age are still into cardio because that's what was popular when they started exercising. They still believe that strength training will bulk them up. 

My mom is Rebecca's age and has been working with a trainer for the past year.  She definitely looks (and feels) better.  :)  I once knew a woman who is probably a contemporary of Jack - so a few years older - who did spin AND a ballet class, BACK TO BACK. 

Edited March 3, 2017 by PRgal

[NutMeg]

And I once had a ballet teacher who was in her late 60s and who was fierce!!! Actually, she was the best ballet teacher i ever had and the one who made me fall in love with ballet.

[OtterMommy]

13 hours ago, NutMeg said:

And I once had a ballet teacher who was in her late 60s and who was fierce!!! Actually, she was the best ballet teacher i ever had and the one who made me fall in love with ballet.

I also had a dance teacher who was in her late 50s/60s.....and she's still teaching in her late 80s!  Of course, she (and I'm assuming your teacher as well) has danced her entire life...which is a little different from a 60-ish woman just starting with pilates.

[chocolatine]

10 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

I also had a dance teacher who was in her late 50s/60s.....and she's still teaching in her late 80s!  Of course, she (and I'm assuming your teacher as well) has danced her entire life...which is a little different from a 60-ish woman just starting with pilates.

That's what I meant, that middle-aged people tend to continue doing the type of sport/exercise that they're used to, rather than starting new things (of corse, there are exceptions). I don't see middle-aged Rebecca jumping on every new exercise trend.

[femmefan1946]

I once did a class with a leader who was well into her 70s, possibly even 80s, and it was great because she understood that some of the women were not 25.  The group mixed middle aged (as I was then) and lots of post-birth 30somethings. The centre had excellent child care.

Then she went off to Hawai'i because : Ottawa winters, and one of the yummy mummies took over. Her method of dealing with us less active types was to set a hard fast routine, then just say 'you can do it slower if you like'. All te older women (40-60) dropped out as did a few of the less yummy mummies.

[PRgal]

On 2017-03-06 at 3:08 PM, femmefan1946 said:

I once did a class with a leader who was well into her 70s, possibly even 80s, and it was great because she understood that some of the women were not 25.  The group mixed middle aged (as I was then) and lots of post-birth 30somethings. The centre had excellent child care.

Then she went off to Hawai'i because : Ottawa winters, and one of the yummy mummies took over. Her method of dealing with us less active types was to set a hard fast routine, then just say 'you can do it slower if you like'. All te older women (40-60) dropped out as did a few of the less yummy mummies.

I once did a barre class called "Barre Basics."  The class was ANYTHING but basic and the instructor told us that she'd "rather not" see us use weights lighter than 5 lb (as in EACH).  Say what?  Barre classes typically use 1 and 2 pounders.  Thank goodness you don't have to buy a package of specific classes (I was paying per class anyway, so it didn't matter that I stopped going).

Edited March 7, 2017 by PRgal

[OtterMommy]

In the 01.17 thread, @SlackerInc said about Oregon's vote by mail:

Quote

I've always hated this idea.  The secret ballot is important!  People could buy and sell votes.  Domineering patriarchs could bully wives and adult children living at home into filling out ballots at the kitchen table.  Bosses (or, yes, unions) could have workers fill them out in front of them "voluntarily".  Bad, bad idea.

Another Oregonian here....

When they first started doing this (which was for a special election to replace Senator Packwood in, I think, 1994?), I didn't like it either...but I'm now completely in favor of it.  Voter turnout is higher than average and there have been very, very few cases of voter fraud or possible fraud.  In fact, I can only think of one case of any illegality, which was in 2014 (I think).  An elections volunteer changed some of the ballots.  She was tried and *I think* convicted.  And, honestly, she could have done what she did if it hadn't been a vote-by-mail situation.

There have been no reports of people buying or selling votes and it is illegal for bosses/unions to have employees/members vote publicly (and there have been exactly 0 reports of anything like that happening).  As for domineering patriarchs, I'm not sure how going to a polling station would instead of voting by mail would make any difference.  

Honestly, the only problem with it from what I can tell is that some people (cough, cough...like me....) might lose their ballot somewhere in their house before they could take it to a ballot box.  I'll admit that I get a little nostalgic for the idea of going to the polls--then I see the lines in different parts of the country and I thank my lucky stars that I was able to vote from my kitchen table a few weeks earlier and was able to drop off my ballot at the same time I returned my library books. (We can either mail in the ballots or drop them off at one of the many boxes.  While I like our vote by mail, I don't really trust our local post office, so I drop mine off).

[SlackerInc]

35 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

As for domineering patriarchs, I'm not sure how going to a polling station would instead of voting by mail would make any difference.

You don't?  A domineering patriarch can't follow you into the voting booth.  You can tell him "Sure, I'm voting for Joe Schmoe: we're a Schmoe kind of family!" and then march into the booth, close the curtain, and vote for Jill Schmill.  The secret ballot was an important reform and this just throws it away.  I would call it naive to think there are no abusive or even just domineering ("old fashioned") husbands, getting redfaced with anger over FOX News and talk radio all day, who "help" their wives fill out their ballots at the kitchen table.  They may not even be consciously aware that they are doing anything but actually helping her!  It may well not even occur to them that under the traditional system, their wives would vote differently.  (It might not, sadly, even occur to the wives.)

I know people in Oregon (and Washington) love this system.  And in the cultural milieu of the PNW (which I love), it's probably harmless.  But taking it nationwide would be a whole 'nother kettle of fish and a very bad idea IMO.  It's particularly rife with potential for corruption in local elections, where you could potentially swing the outcome by paying a few hundred poor folks to fill out ballots they would not otherwise have bothered even casting.

ETA: You have pointed to a lack of evidence for voting crimes under this system.  I would counter that this doesn't mean none have been, or ever will be, committed.  There's also the difference, as I noted, between squeaky clean Oregon and notoriously corrupt Louisiana.

But set all that aside and notice that in the "domineering patriarch" scenario, there is no criminal activity to report!  What Archie Bunker is doing by sitting the family down to fill out ballots (absent any physical abuse or explicit threats) is perfectly legal.  Why legalize such a thing, for others' convenience?

Edited March 9, 2017 by SlackerInc

[ShadowFacts]

6 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

(We can either mail in the ballots or drop them off at one of the many boxes.  While I like our vote by mail, I don't really trust our local post office, so I drop mine off).

That is the deal breaker for me.  While the convenience is great, and probably does result in higher "turnout", which we all want, I really, really love seeing my ballot go right into the machine and the number turning over.  Knowing it was counted is the primary thing for me.  I could never trust that my mailed ballot got counted.  Maybe just having a ballot sent, then returning it to a monitored polling place, not just a possibly unsecured box, would be something I could get behind. 

[Katy M]

7 hours ago, SlackerInc said:

You don't?  A domineering patriarch can't follow you into the voting booth.  You can tell him "Sure, I'm voting for Joe Schmoe: we're a Schmoe kind of family!" and then march into the booth, close the curtain, and vote for Jill Schmill.

I think if this is happening, you have bigger problems in your marriage and life than voting. 

31 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

That is the deal breaker for me.  While the convenience is great, and probably does result in higher "turnout", which we all want, I really, really love seeing my ballot go right into the machine and the number turning over.  Knowing it was counted is the primary thing for me.  I could never trust that my mailed ballot got counted.  Maybe just having a ballot sent, then returning it to a monitored polling place, not just a possibly unsecured box, would be something I could get behind. 

On the other hand, one time my mom went to vote and was told she already voted.  So, she knows for a fact her vote didn't get counted.  Maybe the person who so kindly voted for her voted the exact same way she would have.

[ShadowFacts]

13 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Here in my state there are polling places but most adults I know choose to vote my mail, just because it's more convenient.  

I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist.  I figure they practically purchase votes via the media anyhow, so why bother with criminal plots?  Just make up some campy, patriotic slogan, sling enough mud and spend enough on ads and your candidate is in, even if he has no qualifications and the personality of a baboon.  

With mail-in voting, I'm not talking conspiracy theories or criminal plots.  I'm talking lost in the mail.  Which we all have personal experience with.  I just had a trackable, insured, 2nd day piece get lost for two weeks.  Found, but I doubt ballots are very trackable.  For people who trust the US Mail to do the job with ballots, they should by all means do it.  My trust level is not high enough for something like that.

 

40 minutes ago, Katy M said:

On the other hand, one time my mom went to vote and was told she already voted.  So, she knows for a fact her vote didn't get counted.  Maybe the person who so kindly voted for her voted the exact same way she would have.

Or maybe the poll worker inadvertently checked off the person above or below her name on the rolls.  A recent recount in our state revealed a few hundred  polling place errors, votes that weren't counted, etc.  I don't think there was impersonation or ill intent, just clerical errors. 

[Katy M]

40 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Or maybe the poll worker inadvertently checked off the person above or below her name on the rolls.  A recent recount in our state revealed a few hundred  polling place errors, votes that weren't counted, etc.  I don't think there was impersonation or ill intent, just clerical errors. 

Absolutely, but that doesn't change the fact that my mom didn't get to vote.