Donald John Trump: 2016 President-Elect

[potatoradio]

7 hours ago, SyracuseMug said:

the problem with many politicians on both sides of the aisle is they seem not to understand that members of the “other team,” once elected, are not their opponents, but their colleagues. When “party” becomes more important than “country,” then it’s time for them to leave office.

@SyracuseMug - thank you for such a thoughtful and honest post. It's the first such supporter response I've read, so I appreciate that. I can understand your position. 

I quoted the part above because I absolutely agree with you. I am sick and tired of big money in politics and celebrity and party soundbites and winning being so much more important than detailed, honest, cross-party compromises on the huge issues that we face. I want my government to serve as stewards of our money, our trust, and a long-term approach to problems with honest acknowledgement that answers aren't easy and fast. I need a public government to be there to represent me and my basic rights as a citizen and essential safety nets and services, not to make a profit off of me or reduce me to a voting statistic. 

I, too, am frustrated that we can't seem to figure out how healthcare can work for everyone, so we're not at the mercy of for-profit insurers. I am horrified at the cost of a college education because I want a well-educated society. I want living wages and accountability for corporate greed. I would like to be a leader in climate change. 

However, I also know the practicalities of money, having had to make a very painful decision to not go back to school for an advanced medical  degree because we simply couldn't afford the student loans at our age. But I don't think the answer is as simple as Sanders' saying "well, college should be free." Should be? Maybe. But how? Someone, somewhere, has to pay for it. So, I get the conservative mentality that realizes that, somehow, the money has to come from somewhere and if it's not there, then we have a problem. As taxpayers, we're all paying in for something and we're all going to make sacrifices, but I want a government that isn't so gridlocked that we can't get anywhere and make any progress about what mutual sacrifices will benefit everyone, long term. 

I don't want things handed to me for free - I want to be able to afford the things I want to do and I want public services available to everyone. 

Hand to goddess/deity/sacred something or other- if Tubby actually gets us there, I will buy a stupid hat. 

As I've said, I really, really want to be wrong about my apocalyptic perspective. But I lose whatever tiny hope I had of that with each passing day and it's simply making me more angry and disillusioned and I will not shut up and be nice about that. 

However, I will say that I sure hope Tubby's disaster will rally people to get involved and informed about politics. Politics needs to have a place in people's everyday lives if we're to evolve a government that serves more of its people. We need to get involved and stay informed and have the tough conversations and care just a little bit more about government or else we're at the mercy of losing it completely.

Anyway, clearly your post got me thinking, which I appreciate. Thank you. 

2 minutes ago, stillshimpy said:

There are exceptions, though, Lindsay Graham has doubled down and in a move I never would have called: a sitting Republican has earned my respect and gratitude....for actually paying attention to his duty to the country

Right? I mean, social policies aside, I had a huge respect for him just listening to his responses in the primaries. This may be the first time I actually call a Republican senator with appreciation. 

[callmebetty]

What happened to politicians being public servants?  When did all of them it seems Republicans and Democrats alike start only looking out for themselves and their positions, aren't they suppose to work across the aisle?  We wouldn't have made such social progress if there wasn't those type of civil and public servants in politics at one time, but where have they all gone? 

It used to be that you told kids if you work hard enough, study, do what's right you some day could be president too, not matter what your starting position in life was.  Now what do you tell kids?  Hey, if you're the biggest bully on the block and tell the most lies and disrespect any and all authority you too can be president one day, as long as you have money and know enough people who are just as rich as you.

I know all politicians have to be a little self centered but when did it become like this? 

Edited November 30, 2016 by callmebetty
to add that #potatoradio said it way better than I could have put it

[stillshimpy]

5 minutes ago, potatoradio said:

Right? I mean, social policies aside, I had a huge respect for him just listening to his responses in the primaries. This may be the first time I actually call a Republican senator with appreciation. 

 

I already did and very briefly explained that because I am a liberal, progressive and never envisioned calling a sitting Republican to thank him wholeheartedly, explaining it was one of the few truly bipartisan things I'd ever seen in my lifetime.  That history would judge him well. 

[potatoradio]

6 minutes ago, callmebetty said:

I know all politicians have to be a little self centered but when did it become like this?

THIS ^^^^^^

Also, I think this election is the end result of eight years of a building backlash to what many people saw as liberal extremism. The RINOs were weeded out by more radical Tea Partiers and the Freedom Caucus reps, who just got more extreme and radical and now the conservative platform is on steroids and completely distorted. And now Tubby has volunteered to head the backlash because he saw a good con and he does know how to take advantage of that. 

I'd really, really like to level set the public discourse again so that we can actually start hearing the issues and ideas and not simply paying attention to who's the loudest or shiniest or the big big winner chicken dinner.

For chrissakes, it's civil rights and the economy and global warming and diplomatic relations. Those are plenty entertaining without turning government into a reality tv show for our "entertainment," thankyouverymuch, Tubby.

[Toomuchsoap]

12 hours ago, izabella said:

My solution?  Leave Medicare alone.  It's working fine and millions of people depend on it.  The ACA should have been modeled that way and run that way.

Absolutely! Leave it the hell alone! In my utopia, the ACA would have been merged with Medicare as a single-payer provider, and I don't care if FICA expenses via payroll deductions are increased to cover the costs, whatever the percentage increase is needed to do so. That way, everyone who has a job will be contributing to their own healthcare plans. But that's never going to happen now.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Toomuchsoap

[ClareWalks]

I think that if Donald Trump were as successful with business as he presents himself to be, it would be easier to argue that he is qualified to lead the nation in economic, domestic matters, and possibly in negotiating international trade deals as well. Unfortunately, I don't think he is nearly as rich as he claims, and his business ventures have been, shall we say diplomatically, hit or miss. Also, he has avoided paying his contractors in the past, which is a massive red flag that his "ability to build things inexpensively" is just because he doesn't pay his damn bills. That's not good business.

[stillshimpy]

His sister being a judge means that she herself put in the work to be a judge and that she wanted to do that with her life.

Plus, basing a person's worth on the those around them is inherently fraught with peril.  My husband is a CPA.  This does not mean you should ask me to do your taxes.  

[Toomuchsoap]

5 hours ago, Hanahope said:

I swear I feel like I have to take back every bad thing I ever said about George Bush. He was a great president compared to Trump.

Yup! The eight years under Shrub are true halcyon days compared to the living, nightmarish hell we're in for now, boys and girls.

[Duke Silver]

Uhhh yeah...Trump is a singular phenomenon.  The only opening he's maybe created is for ultra rich guys established in reality tv.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Duke Silver

[sistermagpie]

9 minutes ago, stillshimpy said:

Plus, basing a person's worth on the those around them is inherently fraught with peril.  My husband is a CPA.  This does not mean you should ask me to do your taxes.  

And that's a relationship by marriage. Doing it by DNA is getting into eugenics.

[Padma]

6 hours ago, Chicken Wing said:

Thank you, SyracuseMug, for sharing your perspective. If more Trump supporters were as articulate and reasonable as you are in your logic, my blood pressure wouldn't be as high as it is now. :) I hope you continue to share your opinions. It would be a great change of pace to be able to dialogue with someone whose argument goes beyond "He won, get over it."

I agree with this. I haven't finished re-reading all of your post, but it definitely has a refreshing, reasonable tone and a point of view that is clearly different from much that we see and hear elsewhere.  Anyway, I appreciated reading it. Thank you.

Not a criticism (per my promise : ) ) but I did want to mention one thing as elaboration on your point. You refer to Barbara Res, the woman whom he hired (while still in her twenties) to oversee the building of Trump Tower. You might find her memoir interesting if you haven't yet read it.

Like Tony Schwartz (author of The Art of the Deal) and Jack O'Donnell (the president of Trump Plaza in NJ and the author of "Trumped"), Res' opinions of Donald Trump are very illuminating.  Those three worked with him before he had everyone sign NDAs and so can describe their opinions and experience with him unlike those who have signed NDAs and are legally forbidden to criticize Trump and his business and family for life (that includes, apparently, volunteers working on his campaign nation-wide).

Res' considered Trump a friend and a mentor while she worked on Trump Tower (she also said she proved his reason for hiring her was right in that she worked her ass off for him. He liked to say, "one good woman is worth ten men" meaning--that if you gave a talented woman an opportunity she would otherwise be denied, she would work ten times harder than a man to prove herself. He did that quite a bit back then--over his father's objections, and it was still Fred Trump's company, although he deferred to Donald in Manhattan.)

Anyway, the main point I wanted to make is that, like Tony Schwartz and Jack O'Donnell, Res saw a very different Donald Trump in the late 1980s in New Jersey than she had a decade earlier. And, it seems, that the Donald Trump who emerged by then, when he was fifty, was becoming similar to the man we see twenty years later.  When asked in an interview on MSNBC if she supported him, Res was emphatic.  "Oh no," she said. "He must be stopped."

I just wanted to share that because you mentioned her and I wanted to add that not only is she not a supporter but--like Tony Schwartz--the idea of Trump as president horrifies her.  Barbara Res knew him well--considered him first a friend and mentor and then (like Schwartz and O'Donnell) a monster--and definitely did not think he had the temperament or judgment at 70 to be President of the United States. 

Edited November 30, 2016 by Padma

[MulletorHater]

21 minutes ago, stillshimpy said:

Plus, basing a person's worth on the those around them is inherently fraught with peril.  My husband is a CPA.  This does not mean you should ask me to do your taxes.  

 

11 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

And that's a relationship by marriage. Doing it by DNA is getting into eugenics.

According to Drumpf's biographer, Michael D'Antonio, he was raised to believe that one's success is genetic and that some people are inherently more superior to others.  The Frontline documentary, The Choice, featured D'Antonio, who stated, that the Drumpf family, starting with Fred, "subscribed to a racehorse theory of human development."  He further stated, "They believe that there are superior people and that if you put together the genes of a superior woman and a superior man, you get a superior offspring."  Sounds chillingly like Nazism, doesn't it?

It's funny that the "superior people" train stopped with Uday and Qusay, both of whom come across as crude halfwits riding daddy's coattails.  Meanwhile, Drumpf is said to be well-educated but can't string two sentences together and can be quite boorish and crude himself.  His belief in eugenics may also explain his rather bizarre attraction to his favorite child, Ivanka the Terrible, who looked exactly like him as a child and teen well before the plastic surgery(ies) and glamorization.  And, poor Tiffany, who was raised by jump-off Marla, doesn't even factor into the equation for Drumpf.

If you haven't already done so, please try to visit the United States Holocaust Museum in Washington, D.C.  There is a very chilling exhibit called Deadly Medicine:  Creating the Master Race.  It includes eye color charts and the cataloging of various hair textures, and nose shapes, etc.  The Nazis' policies started with the sterilization of people considered "hereditarily diseased" and ended with the murder of millions.  I've paid very close attention to some of the rhetoric that comes out of Drumpf's plagued mouth and it's scary.  Not to mention his willingly jumping into bed with neo-Nazi's, white supremacists, and other assorted vermin, as well as his adoption of some of their beliefs which turned up in some of his campaign speeches.

[backformore]

I have to ask. I see Erik and Donald jr. Referred to as Uday and Quazy, but I don't understand. Where is that from? And which is which?

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, backformore said:

I have to ask. I see Erik and Donald jr. Referred to as Uday and Quazy, but I don't understand. Where is that from? And which is which?

They were Saddam Hussein's sons.

[MulletorHater]

12 minutes ago, backformore said:

I have to ask. I see Erik and Donald jr. Referred to as Uday and Quazy, but I don't understand. Where is that from? And which is which?

Uday and Qusay are the names of two of Saddam Hussein's sons.  They were just as--if not more--vile as their father was.

During a hilarious monologue, Bill Maher dragged Dullard, Jr. and Er-ICK.  He quoted from Drumpf's book, Think Big, and then segued into calling out the Drumpf boys.

“Donald Trump also once said, ’Sometimes people will come into my office and they will be great. They will look great, they’ll sound great, they dress beautifully. Everything is great. Then after you hire them they turn out to be morons,’ which explains his sons Uday and Qusay.

“I mean Trump, Sr. at the what House is bad enough without these two American psychos putting plastic over the furniture so that they can axe murder prostitutes while discussing Phil Collins."

The nicknames just stuck for me because they truly are despicable and are wastes of flesh.

[Toomuchsoap]

Quote

According to Drumpf's biographer, Michael D'Antonio, he was raised to believe that one's success is genetic and that some people are inherently more superior to others.

So did Hitler and his best bud, Dr. Mengele. As did Martin Luther about 450 years before that. It's all that Aryan Purity, doncha know. And it's surprisingly easy (as we've have just witnessed), despite knowing what the truths are, to seduce enough like-kind folks - those of the same color primarily and mostly protestants - to send common decency and decades and decades of progress down the crap hole. If the German volk weren't enough of an object lesson more than seventy years ago, we will soon be, that is if civilization (and there's a concept you, LOL!) survives this. And I'm not betting we will, actually.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Toomuchsoap

[BBDi]

Trump's expertise and interests are very narrow, it seems to me, and he seems to have some delay in his emotional development. 

 My working theory is that he's actually quite mentally deficient but has a savant-like gift for making money, or at least flaunting it. 

[kokapetl]

It should be noted that Germans are the largest ethnic group in America. America is a quarter German, and the Drumpfs are far from the only people with German ancestry to anglicize their names. 

[Padma]

2 hours ago, stillshimpy said:

Romney has always been a weak man.  What a bunch of weak-willed cowards, cravenly scurrying after the crumbs of power.  

There are exceptions, though, Lindsay Graham has doubled down and in a move I never would have called: a sitting Republican has earned my respect and gratitude....for actually paying attention to his duty to the country.   

I'm worried because Graham seems pretty much out there on his own. Not even his buddy John McCain gives his criticisms any support.  Pre-election critics like Jeff Flake have been notably silent.

I've developed such respect for him and--wow, is he ever quotable in his pithy slams at Trump! Love him--including how he immediately shot down the Republicans' threat to end the filibuster completely in the Senate and just, you know, get right to the one party dictatorship.  I'm so afraid that Graham will capitulate, too, though. After a year and a half of strength, it just doesn't seem likely that he'll hold out once Trump has the power of the presidency.

[kassa]

3 hours ago, MulletorHater said:

What particularly struck me in this documentary was Hitler's ability to work a crowd and one of the commentators pointed out that many people had no problem with him being in power.  None.  In fact, they stood for hours waiting for him to arrive for his rallies, and clamored to get his autograph.  That they turned around years later and started acting brand new and lamented how something like Hitler, the SS and the Holocaust could have happened, my disgust turned into a blind rage.

My (Jewish) boss was born in Vienna and his family had to flee.  He is a prominent person in his profession and occasionally goes back to receive honors/lecture in Austria.  Every time he meets with young professionals they assert what a terrible thing it was that his family was forced out by the Germans, and how awful it was when Germany invaded, and each time he explains very carefully that YOUR GRANDPARENTS WELCOMED THEM IN.  There were parades.  There were people waving flags.  He was there.  There was an opportunity to stand up, and they didn't.

The parallels in this election have really, really troubled him, right down to the "oh, yeah, I can't believe he said/did ____, BUT" statements coming from supporters after every successive outrage.

Edited November 30, 2016 by kassa

[Toomuchsoap]

11 minutes ago, BBDi said:

Trump's expertise and interests are very narrow, it seems to me, and he seems to have some delay in his emotional development. 

 My working theory is that he's actually quite mentally deficient but has a savant-like gift for making money, or at least flaunting it. 

Problem is, we don't know exactly how much money he's actually "made". How much of his flash and dash is actually on the nickel of some foundation or other he's chumped people into "donating" to? We just can't know that, can we? What we DO know is that his Daddy set him up with several million to start his little real estate empire back in the day, and back in the eighties, we know his Daddy had to bail him out big time with many more millions just to keep his gold-plated ego going, er, and his so-called business interests. His "gift" - though I must say, this is the kind of gift that I'd rather be able to run from, but it promises to just keep on giving - is in the art of hucksterism. He's nothing more than a really, really successful used car salesman. But as P.T. Barnum said, "there's one born every minute!", and in this case, about 47 million suckers just put this sleazoid orangutan into the most powerful job in the universe. Some used car huckster, huh?

Edited November 30, 2016 by Toomuchsoap

[Duke Silver]

[Padma]

8 minutes ago, Kokapetl said:

It should be noted that Germans are the largest ethnic group in America. America is a quarter German, and the Drumpfs are far from the only people with German ancestry to anglicize their names. 

I didn't realize there were nearly double the number of German Americans to English Americans. But 25% seemed kind of high.  Wikipedia says 46 million (of 325,000,000) are German Americans. And http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/united-states-population/ says the following 

In 2010, the census collected information about ancestry, but this question was removed from the 2010 census. The latest data from 2000 shows that these were the largest ancestral groups in the US:

German - 15.2%

Irish - 10.8%

African American - 8.8%

English - 8.7%

American - 7.2%

Mexican - 6.5%

[KerleyQ]

2 hours ago, khyber said:

The timing is shortly before the Electoral College votes. This is no accident. He's trying to convince them that he will play by the rules when we all know its bullshit.

That was exactly my thought when I saw the date - he's hoping to use it as a last minute "see, it's not going to be so bad" pitch to the electors.  

2 hours ago, Kokapetl said:

While she's at it, she should also explain what the hell she had done to her face. 

Oh, haven't you heard?  She claims she's had no work done.  None.  She says she's just aging gracefully like her mother did.  Like we don't all have eyes.  

[Padma]

1 minute ago, KerleyQ said:

That was exactly my thought when I saw the date - he's hoping to use it as a last minute "see, it's not going to be so bad" pitch to the electors.  

Oh, haven't you heard?  She claims she's had no work done.  None.  She says she's just aging gracefully like her mother did.  Like we don't all have eyes.  

She doesn't really say that, does she? Ivana Trump's drastic plastic surgery is well documented and much commented on. I don't think even she denies it (because she can't).

[Rapunzel]

1 hour ago, Toomuchsoap said:

If a woman is on any company-underwritten/provided healthcare plan they should know that regardless of HPPA laws, etc., that company is (and probably DOES) obtain information from the insurance company about what their employees are being treated for while on those insurance plans. Bet on it. They know. Or they can by god get the information. The insurance companies aren't bound by those laws, only medical providers.

I'm going to admit something that I haven't done before, but seventeen years ago I had an abortion at the age of 45. Despite having been married previously and, subsequently in a ten-year committed relationship, I had never gotten pregnant before. I more or less assumed that I couldn't. I had been told when I was about 20 that I had a tipped uterus and that would probably make getting pregnant quite difficult. Additionally, I had endometriosis and eventually ended up using birth control to help with symptoms on and off until my early forties. After the ten-year relationship ended, I was single and celibate for several years. I became pregnant after dating my current husband for over two years. He's twelve years older than I am and has two sons, both of whom were ten and twelve at the time, and we agreed that we wouldn't have children of our own. My pregnancy was not planned and when I realized that I was indeed pregnant, I was horrified because at my age, and given the fact that we hadn't planned to conceive, there was no pre-planning (we both imbibe cocktails and wine). I made the choice to have an abortion, but I decided to use the services at a women's clinic in my city because I was very concerned about privacy. The idea of using my company's healthcare insurance to pay for the procedure horrified me. I was concerned about the privacy aspect and I believe I had a right to be paranoid about that. I don't believe anyone should assume that their medical conditions and surgical procedures are ever truly private under the umbrella of any company sponsored health care plan. My husband and I were able to pay for the procedure without hardship, so the privacy was more important than saving the several hundred dollars the procedure cost. I'm not proud of that part of my personal history. I'm saddened when I think about it. It wasn't an easy choice to make, because in my twenties and thirties, I just assumed that when I met the right man and we were married, we'd have children. I didn't meet the "right one" until I turned 42, so children then just didn't seem to be in the cards for me. So judge me if you will, I know there will be those who will, but I didn't make this decision lightly, but I'm not ashamed of it either. It was the right decision for me at that time of mine and my husband's life.

My point in relating this is simply to caution anyone who believes their medical conditions, medications, or any procedures are private. If you're covered by an entity that provides for your insurance, whether it's fully-paid by the company or it's partially-subsidized, you're most likely not.

First off, thank you for sharing your story toomuchsoap. I can't imagine how difficult your situation was and the decision must have been for you and I appreciate and understand that you did what was right for you at the time. I believe every woman should have the ability to make that same choice based on their own circumstances without any judgement.

As an attorney, I am in no way blind to the fact the employers to have access to data that we wouldn't expect them to. However, if you have things properly documented and your employer tries in anyway to use info that they technically should not have access to against you, you can hang them out to dry. Most employers will not take the risk and use anything like that against an employee. At least, not given the way the laws are today - with the changing of the guard, it's hard to say.

I have a very rare neurological condition and have to undergo regular, fairly involved and painful, procedures to keep it under control and to keep it from killing me. I travel around the world and am only really home about one week out of every month.  I keep my condition as quiet as possible and no one that works for me has any idea. There really aren't any outwardly noticeable symptoms unless I go too long without treatment, which I can play off as something else until I can get treatment - though I usually have to get it pretty quickly.  

I ultimately have to go to another state or country to get specialized neurosurgeons to help correct the situation. There are very few specialists in the world that are knowledgeable of, or can even treat, my condition. I tried to have surgery in CA to give me a temporary fix at one point and the neurosurgeon botched it twice. He made the exact same error in surgery two times. I subsequently ended up almost dying, had to have a third surgery just to stabilize things, and, just as had started to recover from the botched surgeries, ended up contracting a severe infection that also almost killed me.

I filed a complaint with the state medical board and the neurosurgeon involved lost his license as a result. He can no longer practice medicine anywhere ever again. As an attorney, I know that med mal laws typically favor the doctors and that there was next to no hope of recovering any money or anything (typically monetary judgements in most states aren't awarded unless you basically lose a limb or your life and even then they are capped). I didn't care about monetary damages and never filed a Civil Suit - I just wanted this man to never be able to practice again and harm someone the way he harmed me.  I am still young and was very fortunate to survive, but that was after three months in the hospital and still being sent home with a central line in and having to give myself injections of antibiotics, blood thinners, saline and other things through that line 3 times a day for another month and having regular visits from a home nurse.

My company is quite large (over 300,000 employees world wide), and also pretty powerful given our leadership and the fact that we are a tech company that has been around for several decades (long before it was silicon valley). If Trump tries to affect my company, or any silicon valley company, he will have difficulty. We do all band together even if we may compete in certain areas.

My healthcare is changing a bit from last year but it is still a relatively good plan. I do still pay a decent amount out of pocket for my premium even with my employer picking up the majority, but that's largely because I go with a PPO (others can go with a few different HMOs if they so choose and they cost less, but I think that paying the extra out of pocket for a PPO is the best choice for me). I can only hope that nothing more will change, especially next year, due to the Trump administration. I feel for those who are using the ACA and those on Medicare. My mother is on Medicare and I have no idea what will happen with her - she has some serious health conditions and already has to pay quite a bit out of pocket (mostly on some very expensive meds) before she hits her out of pocket maximum for the year and it's a struggle for her to get her medications now until she hits that "magic number."

I think everyone is worried about what could happen here - whether it's due to changes/revoking the ACA, changes or gutting or Medicare, pre-existing conditions, birth control, etc. There's just  no way to know when there's someone who has shown absolutely no interest in policy at the wheel and who is making recommendations for appointments that are, at the very least, questionable. Even those who voted for him need to be concerned about what happens with healthcare. As has been stated throughout this thread, I don't know that many of them realized how much it could impact them if the ACA went away and they started to gut Medicare and Medicaid.

It just really pisses me off that the guy Trump nominated for Secretary of Health and Human Services (Price) wants to actually allow employers to fire people for using birth control or for having an abortion. It seems so targeted at women, but as I mentioned in my earlier post, it should also apply to men who use condoms since that is a form of birth control. That basically leaves companies with no work force. Then I guess that means that Trump breaks his promise to bring back jobs because there really won't be many jobs that can be held in America if their job is contingent upon use of birth control.  

[Duke Silver]

On 11/27/2016 at 2:16 PM, Duke Silver said:

Trump the Populist is the among the most hilarious aspects of his impending Presidency.  That his supporters actually believe, or even just hope, that he cares about anything other than his own popularity/acceptance among his fellow economic elites is pathetic.  Trump supporters I've encountered bemoan the elitism of liberals, but they are under the sway of Trump & his elitist gang of billionaire friends.  It's amazing to me.

Can we stop pretending that Trump is a ‘populist’ now?

[Toomuchsoap]

Quote

What particularly struck me in this documentary was Hitler's ability to work a crowd and one of the commentators pointed out that many people had no problem with him being in power.  None.  In fact, they stood for hours waiting for him to arrive for his rallies, and clamored to get his autograph.  That they turned around years later and started acting brand new and lamented how something like Hitler, the SS and the Holocaust could have happened, my disgust turned into a blind rage.

I'm re-reading The Rise & Fall of the Third Reich, and the thing that's actually striking is the fact that it took Shickelgruber twelve years to solidify his power, but this was preceded by about another decade+ working up his model, watching the various political factions and parties within German post-WWI. Early on, around the time of the Beer Hall putsch, people actually thought he was a buffoon and didn't take him seriously. But when he honed that message he used like a straight razor, people were in a swoon of rapturous frenzy. They were drunk on the power he promised them. They gladly rounded up their enemies, and like today, if you're not pure Aryan and protestant (though they did cut some minimal slack for the papists among them, as long as they weren't Poles, or from the Balkans), you were out of luck but fast. They accomplished their ethnic cleanse with shocking rapidity. Another thing that is really striking about Hitler, was the fact that he was actually very studious, an avid and wide-ranging reader. I was actually shocked that he was more intellectual than I recalled. That is in stark contrast, in my read of the situation now, to Trump. Trump is an intellectual slouch. He's lazy and incurious. But, as I noted in other posts, he is the master of hucksterism. And, it appears, the old bait and switch.

Thanks, Rapunzel. I would like to say that your comments are reassuring, but most people aren't attorneys, and most can't afford legal representation and know very few attorneys who might be able to give them friendly counsel. I know that the laws are in place to protect privacy, but the fact that the nominee for H&HS is wanting to penalize birth control use by women by their employers means that these employers will have mined, or be mining, the personal medical histories (actually, the coded procedures sent with insurance forms by their physicians, etc.) to the insurance carriers used by a company of their employees. That's a violation of privacy with the full intent of punitive action. Price has stated this is his intent. Trump has echoed something similar with his comment about "punishing" a woman for having an abortion. They're stating this is their belief and their intent. They aren't even dancing around this issue. It's flat-out stated. It's absolutely about keeping women checkmated. It will mean that many women of child-bearing age - the ages in which a working woman is most productive and most likely to populate the workforce in meaningful positions - may be targeted out of the workplace in favor of males, many of whom may not be as qualified for their jobs.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Toomuchsoap

[KerleyQ]

16 minutes ago, Padma said:

She doesn't really say that, does she? Ivana Trump's drastic plastic surgery is well documented and much commented on. I don't think even she denies it (because she can't).

http://www.popdust.com/melania-trump-denies-plastic-surgery-in-exciting-new-pack-of-lies-for--1892761484.html

[AntiBeeSpray]

12 hours ago, ruby24 said:

Can blue states protect their healthcare coverage somehow?

I sure hope so.

Just came across this via MSN about Price's plans for health care. So much shit there. Bad shit.

Quote

Obamacare would be scrapped, including the government-run insurance markets in every state, the mandates on individuals and businesses and federal tax credits to subsidize the insurance of lower income Americans. Price’s plan instead would offer fixed tax credits – pegged to a person’s age rather than their income -- so that they can buy their insurance policies in the private market.

Those tax credits would be fairly modest, ranging from $1,200 a year for people 18 to 35 years of age to $3,000 for those 51 and older. In many regions of the country, that would hardly begin to cover the premiums and out-of-pocket costs for a relatively comprehensive health insurance plan.

Just as is the case under Obamacare, people with pre-existing medical conditions or chronic illnesses couldn’t be denied coverage under Price’s approach -- provided they had continuous insurance for 18 months before choosing a new policy. That’s a big caveat designed to discourage people from obtaining coverage during an illness and then dropping the policy after recovering. If someone allows their policy to lapse, the next time they return to the market they could be charged up to 150 percent of the standard premiums for the next two years.

This concept of requiring people to maintain “continuous coverage,” is a popular one among Republican policymakers, and is also included in House Speaker Paul Ryan’s “Better Way” approach.

Price would seek expanded use of health savings accounts to allow people to save income before taxes to pay for future health care needs. Health savings accounts already are a common feature in many workplaces. One twist under Price’s approach is that people who are currently covered by Medicare, the Veterans Affairs Department or some other government health program could contribute to health savings accounts to help cover their premiums and copayments.

As a way of addressing the insurance industry’s challenge in covering older and sicker Americans, Price would provide grants to states to insure the “high risk” population. The risk pools would be the equivalent of a safety net for insurers, to offset part of their costs when hit with enrollees’ catastrophic health care costs. But Price appears to be seriously low-balling the scope of the problem by proposing to invest a mere $3 billion into state risk pools over a three-year period. Ryan’s “Better Way” plan, for instance, would provide $25 billion over the coming decade, and even that might prove to be woefully inadequate.

Price would likely roil businesses by imposing a cap on the amount of money that companies could deduct from their taxes to defray the cost of providing health insurance to their workers. This exclusion is one of the largest in the federal tax code and costs the government an estimated $260 billion a year in foregone revenue. Price’s approach would limit the employer tax exclusion for providing health insurance to $8,000 a year for individual policies and $20,000 for families.

 In one of the biggest blows to poor and low-income Americans, Price would repeal the expanded Medicaid coverage in 32 states and the District of Columbia for able-bodied single people and leave those current beneficiaries to fend for themselves on the open market, using other tax credits and benefits.

Price’s approach matches that of GOP President-elect Donald Drumpf in one notable way – by allowing health insurers licensed to sell policies in one state to offer them to residents of other states. This approach would allow consumers to shop around for health insurance across state lines just as they might for any other insurance product.

Finally, the Price proposals would foster an insurance market very welcoming to young, healthy and financially self-sufficient people but hostile to sicker and older people. For one thing, it would eliminate Obamacare-style mandates for insurers to include a standard package of benefits such as maternity services and pediatric care and allow them to offer cheaper, less comprehensive policies to younger people who are looking for a bargain.

At the same time, insurers could jack up the premiums and copayments on their oldest enrollees by as much as the market would bear. The Affordable Care Act currently limits insurers from charging their oldest enrollee three times as much as their youngest clients, but that would no longer be the case under Price’s approach.

 

Going off of this baloney, the high risk pool just sounds like high stakes gambling. It's a scam. And the worst part, are the insurers who'll continue to screw people over royally and with Price's take, will be once again allowed free reign to do so that much more.

[NYCNJbear06]

I agree with many of the posters here Syracusemug and appreciate your post.  Although we disagree on some things, I think we could have a civil debate that would be respectful and informative for both of us.

You mentioned a couple of thing that while for you were not red flags but for me they were and I’d like to respectfully share them.

First, unlike you I have not followed Trump’s career and have had decade’s worth of familiarity to base my opinion on.  Prior to his emergence on the political scene I only knew him as tabloid fodder for his divorces and business exploits.  The person that I saw during this election process is what I base my opinion of him on and that has led me to an unfavorable opinion of him. 

As and person of color and gay man, I feel that he has not spoken of or to my communities in a knowledgeable nor respectful manner.  He has not shown, to me, that he has deep understanding of our issues.  Being that he is not a person of color or gay I would not expect him to have an overwhelming deep understanding so I will give him that.  But, the people he has surrounded himself and included in the inner circle of influence namely Pence and Bannon, are not allies to my communities.  Pence with his anti-LGBT views and Bannon’s connection to Breitbart and the alt-right were enough for me choose another candidate I would prefer as president.  Although he is disavowing the KKK and white supremacy connections now, I feel, it is a little too late.  These elements were a part of his campaign almost from the beginning and he remained silent on their connection and involvement. That was the time to disavow them.   I would wager it was because he wanted the votes and didn’t want to say anything to turn them away.   

You also mentioned that there were a couple of times you referenced a quote from Trump and clarified (and I am paraphrasing) “what he meant was” or “what I think he meant was”.  This has been a big pet peeve for me because all throughout the campaign his surrogates were constantly making the rounds to “interpret” what he said and it was frustrating to go through the same process -  Journalist says – Trump said XYZ. Surrogate says – Trump never said that. Journalist says – We have tape of him saying that, roll tape.  After tape is played Surrogate says – What he meant was…   I have an issue with any person not being able to express themselves clearly and accurately but especially if you want to be president.  Being able to communicate effectively is key because being on a platform where what you say has global impacts and will be received by people for many English is not their primary language your clarity in communication is paramount. 

Regarding his treatment of women two things stand out for me Access Hollywood-gate and his answer to what if his daughter Ivanka was sexually harassed.  I agree innocent until proven guilty but I was offended by the statement he said when he didn’t know they were being recorded.  What he said he has done is sexual assault.  Not to bring it to a more personal level but,  being that my sister was sexually assaulted in college and I saw the damage that it did to her emotionally and physically, I was appalled at what he said. Combined with if Ivanka was sexually harassed at the workplace that she should find another job was mindboggling.

I accept that he is going to be the president for the next four year and I want him to be successful because if he is successful our country is successful.  But, I have my doubts.

[Hanahope]

1 hour ago, Padma said:

Anyway, the main point I wanted to make is that, like Tony Schwartz and Jack O'Donnell, Res saw a very different Donald Trump in the late 1980s in New Jersey than she had a decade earlier. And, it seems, that the Donald Trump who emerged by then, when he was fifty, was becoming similar to the man we see twenty years later.  When asked in an interview on MSNBC if she supported him, Res was emphatic.  "Oh no," she said. "He must be stopped."

I echo this.  People do change.  I'm a very different person now, with completely different political, religious, social, economic beliefs in my late40s/early50s than I was in my late 20s/early 30s.  It comes with living life, learning more, and the people that you interact with.

Also, with respect to the fact that Res states that she worked 10 times as hard as a man, isn't that usually the case?  The woman must work significantly harder, and is expected to do so, in order to possibly get the same rewards as a man.  Why do I feel that Trump is just happy to get getting significantly more work out of someone, because she's a woman, yet pay them the same.

[Duke Silver]

In Carrier Deal, Trump Is Taking Credit for Some Blatant Crony Capitalism
 

Quote

 

Trump will no doubt be lionized by his supporters for “saving” those jobs, but dig down a bit and it’s clear that this deal represents the worst kind of corporate welfare. First, Carrier, and United Technologies, are already heavily subsidized by the government – and many of those subsidies were specifically dedicated to keeping the very jobs it threatened to offshore here at home.

An investigation by The Indy Star found that under Mike Pence, Indiana had “awarded millions of dollars in economic development incentives to companies that have moved production to foreign countries such as Mexico and China, and Carrier was “the highest-profile case.” According to the conservative National Review, the company also got $5.1 million in stimulus-funded tax credits from the Department of Energy “for the sole purpose of creating and maintaining green jobs in the United States.”

 

[KerleyQ]

With regard to Barbara Res, I'd urge anyone who hasn't to check out her Twitter account.  She is very active and vocal about her experience with and knowledge of Trump.  It doesn't paint a flattering picture of him, that's for sure.  She and Tony Schwartz were sounding the alarm before the election, and they both seem shocked and dismayed that people went ahead and voted him in.  

[sistermagpie]

5 minutes ago, NYCNJbear06 said:

You also mentioned that there were a couple of times you referenced a quote from Trump and clarified (and I am paraphrasing) “what he meant was” or “what I think he meant was”.  This has been a big pet peeve for me because all throughout the campaign his surrogates were constantly making the rounds to “interpret” what he said and it was frustrating to go through the same process -  Journalist says – Trump said XYZ. Surrogate says – Trump never said that. Journalist says – We have tape of him saying that, roll tape.  After tape is played Surrogate says – What he meant was…   I have an issue with any person not being able to express themselves clearly and accurately but especially if you want to be president.  Being able to communicate effectively is key because being on a platform where what you say has global impacts and will be received by people for many English is not their primary language your clarity in communication is paramount.

This is part of Trump's talent, actually. It goes along with the way he adjusts himself to always mirror back the mood of the room, why he was more bloodthirsty at his rallies and then becomes reasonable and flattering with the NYT reporters etc. He speaks in such a way that people project whatever meaning they think is most reasonable onto him, and since he's not actually giving details they just argue over what each person thinks he said.

I mean, just to take one example, there's nothing more concrete than what he said about how he was going to literally build a wall, one he even described people being unable to get off of if they managed to climb up (although then he answered himself by suggesting they could bring a rope--LOL!) and get Mexico to pay for it. And yet people are confident just saying "Oh no, what he meant was he was going to do what I consider common sense immigration reform." 

It's really nuts that we have this in a president. Nobody voted for somebody who exists in objective reality.

[KerleyQ]

7 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I mean, just to take one example, there's nothing more concrete than what he said about how he was going to literally build a wall, one he even described people being unable to get off of if they managed to climb up (although then he answered himself by suggesting they could bring a rope--LOL!) and get Mexico to pay for it. And yet people are confident just saying "Oh no, what he meant was he was going to do what I consider common sense immigration reform." 

That one gets me the most.  He was very clear, he was given multiple opportunities to say "well, no, the wall is just figurative, I'm going to implement the kind of reform that would make it virtually like having a wall."  He never took those opportunities.  He doubled down on the physical "beautiful wall" every time, boasting about how the wall is what he does, because he's in construction.  He's like a Rohrschach test to his followers, though.  Whatever they want to see in him, they see in him.  And that is by design. 

[sistermagpie]

Interesting article on Vox that kind of jumps off that article about Berlusconi  It points out that as long as Trump is actually advancing ordinary Republican agendas--destroying Obamacare, destroying social safety nets, giving tax breaks to the wealthy etc.--they will work with him. Meanwhile Trump's supporters totally don't care about his croneyism and corruption. However much they claimed to be against that sort of thing in the campaign, they're fine with it coming from Trump because they see him as being on their side and cheating people for them (Clinton, otoh, was cheating for "those other" people.) So Democrats actually need to not focus on Trump the Circus act on Twitter and instead focus on the policies he's putting in place. Policies that are, in fact, quite unpopular. 

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/30/13767174/case-for-normalizing-trump

[numbnut]

Nerdwriter just made a video about how Trump uses Twitter to distract us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkvvAQxxo_0&feature=em-uploademail

[AntiBeeSpray]

26 minutes ago, numbnut said:

Nerdwriter just made a video about how Drumpf uses Twitter to distract us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkvvAQxxo_0&feature=em-uploademail

Thanks for sharing! One of the best things we can do I guess is to check the times when he posts stuff and then look up articles from around the time those tweets were posted.

[numbnut]

59 minutes ago, AntiBeeSpray said:

Thanks for sharing! One of the best things we can do I guess is to check the times when he posts stuff and then look up articles from around the time those tweets were posted.

He has a lot to hide -- he has 3,500 (!) lawsuits currently pending against him, and I'm sure there's plenty more to come.

[SmithW6079]

I worked in NYC in the 1980s and so have been exposed to Donald Trump's media presence for 30 years. Here's the thing: the man has always been a no-class vulgarian, a disgusting shit of a human being whose first and only concern is himself. I remember when he used to parade then-mistress Marla Maples around town after he cheated on his first wife. Did he care about whatever pain it might have been causing Ivana or his children? No, of course not, because it was all about "look at Trump and his hottie." It has always been about him. Just look at the way his buildings, his clothing line, his (failed) airline, whatever, always have to have his name on them. 

Any not-negative publicity that came out him was the work of talented publicists -- or Trump himself, who sometimes pretended to be his own PR guy.

As someone pointed above, people who worked for Trump in the 1980s call him a monster now. The journalist who wrote his book (and, I believe, had to fight to be named co-author) called him a sociopath. If Trump's behavior has changed that much, then there's no way he's not staring down the barrel of mental illness or dementia.

I'm afraid I can't comprehend any defense of Trump and his behavior. Someone doesn't trust the "mainstream media"? Fine, but the man's own tweets show what a low-down despicable person he is. He's a liar and a cheater and he is going to rob America blind, while tweeting out some sleight-of-hand bullshit to fool the Trumpkins.  

People engaging in racial hatred? Sure, they're responsible for their own actions, but they were emboldened by the constant stream of hatred spewing from Trump's mouth and Twitter. He is responsible for them. 

Trump bashed Hillary Clinton for making paid speeches to Goldman Sachs, but his white supremacist-in-chief was a Goldman executive, and the person he is promoting for treasury secretary was a Goldman executive. He's "draining the swamp" of the 1-percenters -- all to serve in his cabinet, all the billionaires who want to rape and loot America so they can get richer. And the sycophants and donors and whomever is the flatterer du jour are going to be running our government.

Willard Romney, like all the other milquetoast Republicans, can't roll over fast enough to show his belly. He has no grander motive for America; he just wants the power. Every Republican who called Trump out during the campaign has come running with his tail between his legs to beg for scraps from Trump's asshole.

In addition to the Affordable Care Act, Medicare, Social Security are on the chopping block -- these are government programs that actually help people. Trump's infrastructure plan? Will benefit companies already planning building projects.

And Sarah Fucking Palin for VA secretary? Oh my god. I have friends who are veterans and they are about to be royally fucked. This is a woman who can't put together two coherent sentences, and she's up for running one of the largest agencies in the US government. She quit her job as governor after two years because she could make more money vomiting incendiary speech on Fox. Yeah, veterans who voted for Trump, this is how much Republicans care about veterans, so you know what? Thank you for your service, but you get what you deserve.

Edited December 1, 2016 by SmithW6079
Added in a line about Trump's PR.

[Finagler]

5 hours ago, ClareWalks said:

I think that if Donald Trump were as successful with business as he presents himself to be, it would be easier to argue that he is qualified to lead the nation in economic, domestic matters, and possibly in negotiating international trade deals as well. Unfortunately, I don't think he is nearly as rich as he claims, and his business ventures have been, shall we say diplomatically, hit or miss. Also, he has avoided paying his contractors in the past, which is a massive red flag that his "ability to build things inexpensively" is just because he doesn't pay his damn bills. That's not good business.

 

I have a coworker who told me that Trump IS a successful business man.  When I pointed out Trump's numerous bankruptcies, he replied that filing for bankruptcy is a valid business model.   WTH am I missing?  One bankruptcy can be explained- you were young, didn't know better; numerous ones mean you are stupid and can't learn or else you are a con and out to sucker whomever you can.

[Toomuchsoap]

7 minutes ago, SmithW6079 said:

I worked in NYC in the 1980s and so have been exposed to Donald Trump's media presence for 30 years. Here's the thing: the man has always been a no-class vulgarian, a disgusting shit of a human being whose first and only concern is himself. I remember when he used to parade then-mistress Marla Maples around time after he cheated on his first wife. Did he care about whatever pain it might have been causing Ivana or his children? No, of course not, because it was all about "look at Trump and his hottie." It has always been about him. Just look at the way his buildings, his clothing line, his (failed) airline, whatever, always have to have his name on them. 

As someone pointed above, people who worked for Trump in the 1980s call him a monster now. The journalist who wrote his book (and, I believe, had to fight to be named co-author) called him a sociopath. If Trump's behavior has changed that much, then there's no way he's not staring down the barrel of mental illness or dementia.

I afraid I can't comprehend any defense of Trump and his behavior. Someone doesn't trust the "mainstream media"? Fine, but the man's own tweets show what a low-down despicable person he is. He's a liar and a cheater and he is going to rob American blind, while tweeting out some sleight-of-hand bullshit to fool the Trumpkins.  

People engaging in racial hatred? Sure, they're responsible for their own actions, but they were emboldened by the constant stream of hatred spewing from Trump's mouth and Twitter. He is responsible for them. 

Trump bashed Hillary Clinton for making paid speeches to Goldman Sachs, but his white supremacist-in-chief was a Goldman executive, and the person he is promoting for treasury secretary was a Goldman executive. He's "draining the swamp" of the 1-percenters -- all to serve in his cabinet, all the billionaires who want to rape and loot America so they can get richer. And the sycophants and donors and whomever is the flatterer du jour are going to be running our government.

Willard Romney, like all the other milquetoast Republicans, can't roll over fast enough to show his belly. He has no grander motive for America; he just wants the power. Every Republican who called Trump out during the campaign has come running with his tail between his legs to beg for scraps from Trump's asshole.

In addition to the Affordable Care Act, Medicare, Social Security are on the chopping block -- these are government programs that actually help people. Trump's infrastructure plan? Will benefit companies already planning building projects.

And Sarah Fucking Palin for VA secretary? Oh my god. I have friends who are veterans and they are about to be royally fucked. This is a woman who can't put together two coherent sentences, and she's up for running one of the largest agencies in the US government. She quit her job as governor after two years because she could make more money vomiting incendiary speech on Fox. Yeah, veterans who voted for Trump, this is how much Republicans care about veterans, so you know what? Thank you for your service, but you get what you deserve.

Sarah Palin. It's just one fresh hell after the next. It's like something right out of 30 Rock or SNL. Why am I not roaring with laughter? I just want to find a really nice atomic shelter somewhere, preferably in the jungles of Mexico or Costa Rica, so I can just curl up in a fetal position to wait this horror show out. Why won't someone make this man disappear - Stalin style. No man, no problem.

[stillshimpy]

5 minutes ago, Toomuchsoap said:

Sarah Palin. It's just one fresh hell after the next. It's like something right out of 30 Rock or SNL. Why am I not roaring with laughter?

So here's something that you guys can't really know about me:  god help me, I look like Sarah Palin.  Like enough that strangers will stop me and say, "Do you know who you look like?"  and I've taken to answering, "Tina Fey?"  to sort of clue them into "DO NOT TELL ME I LOOK LIKE THAT THING, PLEASE!"  I'd need some (really atrocious) highlights, a speech coach (to eradicate the fact that I speak properly) and a much, much freer hand with all forms of makeup.  

But if we have to Dave the shit out of the cabinet to help save some of the completely helpless, soon-to-be victims of this administration we at least have the secretary of the VA thing covered.  I'd do it.  I would lean the fuck in, get the same glasses, avoid-fucking-Todd-or-being-in-the-same room-with-him.  My husband, also a liberal, can just tell people I'm off on some sort of retreat.  

One player on Hell's Batting Line-up is covered in the event that we have to get together a team of imposters who aren't out to wreck the fucking world. 

My dad was a veteran.  I'm going to go die now. 

[Hanahope]

39 minutes ago, Finagler said:

I have a coworker who told me that Trump IS a successful business man.  When I pointed out Trump's numerous bankruptcies, he replied that filing for bankruptcy is a valid business model.   WTH am I missing?  One bankruptcy can be explained- you were young, didn't know better; numerous ones mean you are stupid and can't learn or else you are a con and out to sucker whomever you can.

So valid strategy for business but individuals who file for bankruptcy are either failures or deadbeats trying to jilt their creditors.  That's why individuals are now required to go on payment plans and can't write off their debts, especially student loans.

[AntiBeeSpray]

@numbnut To speak of the devil: Something from five hours ago, via CNN: here and the distraction... those 1,000 jobs are nothing. Really. Just a mere drop in the bucket and a distraction.

Sure he mentioned about them, but there was no mention about where they worked, their backgrounds, etc. He figured people would accept them with no objection.

[Padma]

The only good thing about Palin heading the VA (okay, I'm grasping at straws here) is that she is the LAZIEST person in the world!  And that she knows absolutely nothing about veterans may be a good thing in a way (I mean, I was horrified to think Miss "Drill, Baby, Drill" was going to be in charge of the Interior Dept. or the EPA, as rumored a week ago.)

As head of the VA, she is likely to appoint a few dreadful cronies to cushy jobs and...perhaps....hopefully...collect her fat govt. check and just leave the actual work to the people who've been doing it all along.

[Cupid Stunt]

7 hours ago, MulletorHater said:

RSVP, with the understanding that what remains of your dignity should be left at the door; if you have a moral compass, some balls, some principles--just stay home

You can't lose what you never had ***

     Gray Connolly Tweet: Romney should be holding up a newspaper with today's date on it

 

 

***Muddy Waters

[backformore]

Trump is supposed to be coming to Chicago this week.  I have no idea why, people here hate him.  

I expect demonstrations outside his ugly-ass building.

[Toomuchsoap]

On 11/30/2016 at 6:50 PM, Cupid Stunt said:

You can't lose what you never had ***

     Gray Connolly Tweet: Romney should be holding up a newspaper with today's date on it

 

 

***Muddy Waters

Mitt looks like he's straining to move his bowels. Having to look at THAT monstrosity over my dinner, I'd be grimacing hard too.

 

On 11/30/2016 at 6:17 PM, stillshimpy said:

So here's something that you guys can't really know about me:  god help me, I look like Sarah Palin.  Like enough that strangers will stop me and say, "Do you know who you look like?"  and I've taken to answering, "Tina Fey?"  to sort of clue them into "DO NOT TELL ME I LOOK LIKE THAT THING, PLEASE!"  I'd need some (really atrocious) highlights, a speech coach (to eradicate the fact that I speak properly) and a much, much freer hand with all forms of makeup.  

But if we have to Dave the shit out of the cabinet to help save some of the completely helpless, soon-to-be victims of this administration we at least have the secretary of the VA thing covered.  I'd do it.  I would lean the fuck in, get the same glasses, avoid-fucking-Todd-or-being-in-the-same room-with-him.  My husband, also a liberal, can just tell people I'm off on some sort of retreat.  

One player on Hell's Batting Line-up is covered in the event that we have to get together a team of imposters who aren't out to wreck the fucking world. 

My dad was a veteran.  I'm going to go die now. 

Go for it! I'm totally onboard. I mean, why the fuck not? What've we got to lose? As far as I'm concerned, The Body Snatchers can't arrive soon enough.