Donald John Trump: 2016 President-Elect

[stormy]

It's fitting.  In 1938 Time named Hitler Man of the Year.

[AntiBeeSpray]

Just saw this via Garry Kasparov's twitter feed: https://twitter.com/jerry_ruark/status/807707283501252608

Very astute take on the Time Magazine cover.

[OrigamiNightmare]

Anyone wanna take bets on whether Trump will tweet about tonight's Saturday Night Live (y'know while democracy continues to die and the country tears it's self apart) ...

Edited December 11, 2016 by OrigamiNightmare

[AntiBeeSpray]

Just came across this...

@OrigamiNightmare He hasn't done it yet.

[Macbeth]

5 hours ago, jhlipton said:

When you hear a website has been "hacked", what do you think?  That the information now there was planted by the hackers.  But you don't think that about the DNC emails?  To me, the dead giveaway that they were fake was the "email" that said Hillary got the questions before the debate.  You, me and the chimpanzee at the National Zoo knew what questions were going to be asked, so would Hillary need them in advance?  If that was fake, it calls into question all the emails released by the Kremlin.

 Re: the "fake" email - that actually was true.  CNN did actually fire Donna Brazile (CNN Commentator and Interim Director of the DNC) after that email was leaked as she did give Hillary a question before one of the debates being held by CNN.

I am hearing complaints about the fact that the emails were hacked - not that  the emails themselves were fake.

YMMV.

[jhlipton]

5 minutes ago, Macbeth said:

 Re: the "fake" email - that actually was true.  CNN did actually fire Donna Brazile (CNN Commentator and Interim Director of the DNC) after that email was leaked as she did give Hillary a question before one of the debates being held by CNN.

I am hearing complaints about the fact that the emails were hacked - not that  the emails themselves were fake.

YMMV.

What possible question  could Brazile have given Hillary that she wouldn't already know?  It's possible that CNN fired Brazile for her connection to the DNC and not for anything the Kremlin said.  My "mileage" is that all the hacked emails are tainted and I no longer believe any of them -- they all stink of Putin.

[Padma]

Brazile gave a rough question (maybe 2?) to a Clinton aide. The one I read was "If you're president what will you do to help with our water?"  They townhall with Bernie was in Flint. So..doh.  I doubt they bothered to pass it on.  (Zucker was outraged however!  Yet he kept on Lewandowski who was still being paid $20k a month by Trump as a "strategist" and in frequent contact with him about the campaign.)

Re: fake email. Tim Kaine didn't make a big deal about it, but said the info about him in one of them was wrong. Another one they printed the English was awkward, not like a native speaker would have written it.  But the defense was poor, regardless.

The big point--since Trump's email attack on Hillary was the centerpiece of his campaign--is was he collaborating with Putin on their release? Did he know?  (Or in Watergate parlance, since its relevant, "What did Donald Trump know and when did he know it?")

[AntiBeeSpray]

I was just on another board talking politics and someone thought that the US deserved this (Drumpf/Putin/Russian hacking), since they've done it for years to other countries. /facepalm  I said that I don't excuse what the US had done and that other countries had/have done the same to other countries and no country is innocent there. And yet they continued to rail on the US lol. Ended up leaving them and another person alone in their 'conversation' as it was going no where but circular arguments and strawmen.

This is a big threat. And no one should look away from it or not take it seriously. Both in regards to the hacks and in regards to who Drumpf/Putin tries to get in the Cabinet, etc.

[Ceindreadh]

3 hours ago, AntiBeeSpray said:

I was just on another board talking politics and someone thought that the US deserved this (Drumpf/Putin/Russian hacking), since they've done it for years to other countries. /facepalm  I said that I don't excuse what the US had done and that other countries had/have done the same to other countries and no country is innocent there. And yet they continued to rail on the US lol. Ended up leaving them and another person alone in their 'conversation' as it was going no where but circular arguments and strawmen.

This is a big threat. And no one should look away from it or not take it seriously. Both in regards to the hacks and in regards to who Drumpf/Putin tries to get in the Cabinet, etc.

One can appreciate the irony in a country with a history of election manipulation being itself manipulated. That doesn't necessarily mean you approve of it. If the stakes weren't so high, it would be a case of serves them right. 

[Lunata]

4 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

One can appreciate the irony in a country with a history of election manipulation being itself manipulated. That doesn't necessarily mean you approve of it. If the stakes weren't so high, it would be a case of serves them right. 

The U.S. has been meddling in the elections of other countries for 100 years. Honduras, Haiti, Guatemala, Iran, Indonesia, Congo, Afghanistan and Vietnam. This is why a lot of people in the world hate the US and Russia has done exactly the same by interfering in Syria, Iran, Ukraine, Georgia. Russian interference in other countries’ politics and elections is not a new phenomenon and it has moved beyond just Russia’s immediate borders into Greece, Italy and the US.

The interference in the elections of other countries by the US and Russia is just a fact of life. This isn't the first time that Russia has interfered with our elections. Our interference in countries that are a banana republic like the unstable countries in Central America have a long history. There are complex reasons why the US has interfered with elections where there is a dictatorship. The U.S. has been doing whatever it can to influence the outcome of elections, up to and including assassinating politicians it has found unfriendly. Does anyone remember the Iran-Gate when we sold weapons to Iran or Watergate when Republicans tried to steal information by breaking into the DNC?

But, we're the #1 most powerful democracy in the world and nobody should be messing with our elections. The US is a big contributor to other countries in many ways spending in excess of $35 billion on foreign aid. World politics and the way the US and Russia influence them is beyond my scope of understanding. But I do know that there are a lot of countries that are receiving a lot of resources from the US.

Edited December 11, 2016 by Lunata

[ChromaKelly]

15 hours ago, jhlipton said:

And then the GOP strips "Buy American" from one of their bills!

bin Laden had planned to seize planes as early as 1999.  The "Millennium Plot", foiled by German intelligence  was to blow up planes mid-flight.  Crashing them into buildings was just a new twist.

When you hear a website has been "hacked", what do you think?  That the information now there was planted by the hackers.  But you don't think that about the DNC emails?  To me, the dead giveaway that they were fake was the "email" that said Hillary got the questions before the debate.  You, me and the chimpanzee at the National Zoo knew what questions were going to be asked, so would Hillary need them in advance?  If that was fake, it calls into question all the emails released by the Kremlin.

One of them was something like, at a town hall in Michigan, a woman was going to ask "How do you plan to help the people of Flint?" WOW, that is so unexpected! She really needed to be warned about that hard-hitting question.

[Ceindreadh]

2 hours ago, Lunata said:

The U.S. has been meddling in the elections of other countries for 100 years. Honduras, Haiti, Guatemala, Iran, Indonesia, Congo, Afghanistan and Vietnam. This is why a lot of people in the world hate the US and Russia has done exactly the same by interfering in Syria, Iran, Ukraine, Georgia. Russian interference in other countries’ politics and elections is not a new phenomenon and it has moved beyond just Russia’s immediate borders into Greece, Italy and the US.

The interference in the elections of other countries by the US and Russia is just a fact of life. This isn't the first time that Russia has interfered with our elections. Our interference in countries that are a banana republic like the unstable countries in Central America have a long history. There are complex reasons why the US has interfered with elections where there is a dictatorship. The U.S. has been doing whatever it can to influence the outcome of elections, up to and including assassinating politicians it has found unfriendly. Does anyone remember the Iran-Gate when we sold weapons to Iran or Watergate when Republicans tried to steal information by breaking into the DNC?

But, we're the #1 most powerful democracy in the world and nobody should be messing with our elections. The US is a big contributor to other countries in many ways spending in excess of $35 billion on foreign aid. World politics and the way the US and Russia influence them is beyond my scope of understanding. But I do know that there are a lot of countries that are receiving a lot of resources from the US.

So just to be clear, it's a "fact of life" when the USA does it, but nobody should be messing with the USA?  

Double standard much?

[Duke Silver]

***Disclaimer:  I have found the NYT, especially, to be quite lacking this entire election cycle, so I hesitate re-posting this.  I'm choosing to do so, however, because this aspect of the story, IF TRUE, is beyond YUUUUGE.  If true, the clearer than clear implication is that an outside influence chose one side over the other.  Read whatever reputable sources you can about this & stay informed.  <---yeah, I didn't mean this in a douchey way, as it might come across

Russian Hackers Acted to Aid Trump in Election, U.S. Says

[KIMBERLYANN11]

31 minutes ago, Ceindreadh said:

So just to be clear, it's a "fact of life" when the USA does it, but nobody should be messing with the USA?  

Double standard much?

Maybe - but I'm okay with that.  It's not right when we do it either, but I don't have any control over that.

I personally never interfered with an election - and neither did my daughter or future grandchildren.  I don't think we deserve to live under Russian influence. 

I was born the year of the Cuban missile crisis.  My generation lived with the specter of the nuclear bomb over our heads every single day.  Ronald Reagan was elected about a week after I turned 18 and managed to win the cold war by outspending the enemy - something we won't be able to do today.  I don't take the Russians lightly - nobody should.  If they gain undue influence here, it affects the entire world.  

Reagan is rolling over in his grave right about now. 

[AntiBeeSpray]

7 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

One can appreciate the irony in a country with a history of election manipulation being itself manipulated. That doesn't necessarily mean you approve of it. If the stakes weren't so high, it would be a case of serves them right. 

Not myself. Given how many people's lives are at stake. I don't excuse the US or other countries for that matter in regards to doing it though. Disagree on that. It still wouldn't be right and it would affect others.

 

1 hour ago, Duke Silver said:

***Disclaimer:  I have found the NYT, especially, to be quite lacking this entire election cycle, so I hesitate re-posting this.  I'm choosing to do so, however, because this aspect of the story, IF TRUE, is beyond YUUUUGE.  If true, the clearer than clear implication is that an outside influence chose one side over the other.  Read whatever reputable sources you can about this & stay informed.  <---yeah, I didn't mean this in a douchey way, as it might come across

Russian Hackers Acted to Aid Drumpf in Election, U.S. Says

Good find.

I especially agree on this quote from it:

Quote

It is possible that in hacking into the Republican committee, Russian agents were simply hedging their bets.

That could very well be the case. In case they got any blow back from Republicans, they'd have one heck of something to hold over them and/or use against them/or even threaten them with. 

[Guest]

If no one's seen it, and is looking for a primer on the inherent evil that is Putin, please watch this PBS Frontline called Putin's Way. Have a lot of alcohol at the ready.

I know this is the Trump thread, but Putin, Trump. A turd by any other name. 

As for these so-called Patriots of the Republican party -- I have news for you -- you can't wave the flag in one hand and jerk Putin's dick with the other. That's not the way it works.

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, Ceindreadh said:

So just to be clear, it's a "fact of life" when the USA does it, but nobody should be messing with the USA?  

For me it's not that the US has any more right to interfere in elections than anyone else, it's that just as I wouldn't expect the citizens of those countries to be okay with that, I wouldn't expect us to. That's also what guides my feelings about Russia. I'm not shocked they would want to do this and I expect them to advance their own interests at the expense of the US (even if I'm sure plenty of individual Russians would say that was an immoral thing to do, just as I think it's wrong when we do it). Trump is such an obvious gift to Putin of course he's going to try to influence things. He'll lift those sanctions and push through that giant oil deal Trump was trying to make with Trump's pick for Secretary of State immediately!

It's the Americans that would help them that I don't understand. Whether they're doing it for their own personal gain (be it money or power or just getting their guy Trump in office to MAGA) or because they think the US needs to be punished for its own transgressions. Nothing wrong with acknowledging that the US is getting a taste of its own medicine here, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't fight it. Get some instinct for survival!

[AntiBeeSpray]

9 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

For me it's not that the US has any more right to interfere in elections than anyone else, it's that just as I wouldn't expect the citizens of those countries to be okay with that, I wouldn't expect us to. That's also what guides my feelings about Russia. I'm not shocked they would want to do this and I expect them to advance their own interests at the expense of the US (even if I'm sure plenty of individual Russians would say that was an immoral thing to do, just as I think it's wrong when we do it). Drumpf is such an obvious gift to Putin of course he's going to try to influence things. He'll lift those sanctions and push through that giant oil deal Drumpf was trying to make with Drumpf's pick for Secretary of State immediately!

It's the Americans that would help them that I don't understand. Whether they're doing it for their own personal gain (be it money or power or just getting their guy Drumpf in office to MAGA) or because they think the US needs to be punished for its own transgressions. Nothing wrong with acknowledging that the US is getting a taste of its own medicine here, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't fight it. Get some instinct for survival!

Doesn't matter. Given that people who had NOTHING to do with those who did do this atrocious thing are being affected the most. So to say that they're getting a taste of their own medicine is a bit offensive. I'd only say that the politicians are the ones who are. Whether they acknowledge it or not. They can stay safe for as long as they can, so in a lot of ways they're not at risk... but I wonder what will happen if they start to jump ship?

Betting it's both money and power (the fact that they want to push through what they want to push through and are willing to do it by any means -- that's treason in itself that they'd resort to colluding with foreign powers just to do so).

[Duke Silver]

Yeah, sure...those who opt to take pleasure in the "deserved comeuppance" due to past misdeeds by the U.S. government, more power to you.  Congrats for being ideologically pure.  We have Donald fucking Trump in control of the world's most lethal military arsenal.  Awesome.

[AntiBeeSpray]

1 minute ago, Duke Silver said:

Yeah, sure...those who opt to take pleasure in the "deserved comeuppance" due to past misdeeds by the U.S. government, more power to you.  Congrats for being ideologically pure.  We have Donald fucking Drumpf in control of the world's most lethal military arsenal.  Awesome.

Exactly. We're all in the same boat. We're all screwed.

[stillshimpy]

Quote

So just to be clear, it's a "fact of life" when the USA does it, but nobody should be messing with the USA?  

Double standard much? ..  

 

 

Edited December 11, 2016 by stillshimpy
Reply moved to different window because of a mutant quote box.

[KIMBERLYANN11]

And it's just not America that will be affected.  I was considering an upcoming move to Iceland but Iceland's still in Europe and totally vulnerable. The entire world will get a "comeuppance" they in no way deserve.

Edited December 11, 2016 by KIMBERLYANN11
I like scare quotes

[AntiBeeSpray]

29 minutes ago, KIMBERLYANN11 said:

And it's just not America that will be affected.  I was considering an upcoming move to Iceland but Iceland's still in Europe and totally vulnerable. The entire world will get a comeuppance they in no way deserve.

Exactly. It's beyond scary to think about.

 

31 minutes ago, stillshimpy said:

Quote

So just to be clear, it's a "fact of life" when the USA does it, but nobody should be messing with the USA?  

Double standard much?

There's simply no denying that we have had a history of geopolitical interference.  Having said that, it is also something from which we have hopefully learned, having paid HUGE prices for it.  Just fucking staggering prices in terms of loss of life of our own people and in other places like Iran, Iraq, and on and on that list goes.  That said, past policies and decisions made with an eye towards stabilizing the global stage (no matter how fucking spectacularly that eventually faceplanted for all concerned) is absolutely no reason to allow a sinister global power with a nefarious agenda that will harm the citizens of our country and potentially those across the globe to get away with it.  

Unlike the countries where we have interfered, and do not mistake me here, that is something I consider to have been a mistake almost universally, we are supposed to have an established and working democracy with a maintained, ethical system in place.   

Is it a bit hypocritical?  I don't think the sins of past administrations ought to determine the course of our current democracy.  We are allowed to improve, grow and learn from mistakes made by ourselves and others..  

Thing is, it isn't the public that needs to learn as much as those in power that do. They're the ones in control of the situation and a lot of them refuse to do so. As for the fact of life thing, that's full of hot air. I've never thought that way myself. No country should be messed with. But it is the world and it'll continue to happen.

[Duke Silver]

https://twitter.com/MarlowNYC/status/807954704139505665

[stillshimpy]

Trying to defeat a quote box:  There's simply no denying that we have had a history of geopolitical interference.  Having said that, it is also something from which we have hopefully learned, having paid HUGE prices for it.  Just fucking staggering prices in terms of loss of life of our own people and in other places like Iran, Iraq, and on and on that list goes.  That said, past policies and decisions made with an eye towards stabilizing the global stage (no matter how fucking spectacularly that eventually faceplanted for all concerned) is absolutely no reason to allow a sinister global power with a nefarious agenda that will harm the citizens of our country and potentially those across the globe to get away with it.  

Unlike the countries where we have interfered, and do not mistake me here, that is something I consider to have been a mistake almost universally, we are supposed to have an established and working democracy with a maintained, ethical system in place.   

Is it a bit hypocritical?  I don't think the sins of past administrations ought to determine the course of our current democracy.  We are allowed to improve, grow and learn from mistakes made by ourselves and others

[sistermagpie]

23 minutes ago, Duke Silver said:

Yeah, sure...those who opt to take pleasure in the "deserved comeuppance" due to past misdeeds by the U.S. government, more power to you.  Congrats for being ideologically pure.  We have Donald fucking Trump in control of the world's most lethal military arsenal.  Awesome.

Yes, I admit that when I think of that attitude I wonder if these were also the people too pure to vote for HRC. It just feels like wanting to be self-righteous without doing anything to stop the real harm that will come to people. Giving the US to Trump or Putin is yet more approval for this sort of thing.

[Duke Silver]

 

Trump’s last press conference was where he asked Russia to release Clinton’s hacked emails

[stillshimpy]

 Congrats for being ideologically pure.  

Ten minutes later and this is still randomly making me crack up.  Thanks, Duke Silver.   Concisely and accurately put. 

[Padma]

Interesting he did it at a press conference (which would get international attention).

There's no way to justify or rationalize Russia interfering in our election--to sabotage one candidate and get the one they wanted elected.  It should be shocking to hear people rationalizing this. 

It was wrong when the U.S. did it and still is wrong. Plus, the risk and complete disrespect Russia shows here!  Who alters the presidential election result of the biggest superpower in the world and thinks "no big deal"!  Of course, with Trump as president they will obviously be right--not only "no price to pay" but a whole LOT to be gained.

I won't be surprised if Putin successfully takes back the Balkans by the end of Tubby's four years--and who knows what else they'll do to change the map.  I'm sure that Trump will continue to defer to Putin -- and has shown great fealty already in his choice of Rex Tillerson as SOS, the man Putin himself decorated with the Order of Friendship in 2013.  Per Wikipedia, "Tillerson is a friend of Igor Sechin,the leader of the Kremlin's Siloviki faction, who is widely believed to be Russia's second-most powerful person after President Putin."

Trump should be concerned that people might think he was collaborating with Putin to steal the election.

I wonder why he isn't talking about it at all.

[KerleyQ]

13 hours ago, Padma said:

The big point--since Trump's email attack on Hillary was the centerpiece of his campaign--is was he collaborating with Putin on their release? Did he know?  (Or in Watergate parlance, since its relevant, "What did Donald Trump know and when did he know it?")

Roger Stone, one of Trump's various "advisers" during the campaign, was publicly calling Putin's shot for him ahead of a couple releases.  (He called Podesta "next" ahead of the release of a bunch of his emails, and previewed one of the early releases with a "prediction" that WikiLeaks had something new coming out a day or two before one of their dumps.) Trump absolutely knew what was going on.  If he didn't, he's criminally stupid.  

[Padma]

5 minutes ago, KerleyQ said:

Roger Stone, one of Trump's various "advisers" during the campaign, was publicly calling Putin's shot for him ahead of a couple releases.  (He called Podesta "next" ahead of the release of a bunch of his emails, and previewed one of the early releases with a "prediction" that WikiLeaks had something new coming out a day or two before one of their dumps.) Trump absolutely knew what was going on.  If he didn't, he's criminally stupid.  

That makes sense, since I'm thinking Manafort helped arrange it and Stone and Manafort are close, too.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2016/04/08/longtime-roger-stone-ally-paul-manafort-gets-larger-role-trump’s-campaign/209831

The plot thickens. (ETA: I really hope Trump's critics won't fall for this latest effort at deflection: "Oh, but the U.S. does it! Serves us right!" etc.  #1 that makes no sense because a crime is a crime is a crime.  #2 It's just the usual Tubby Trick to get people talking about something else and not putting responsibility and blame on him -- where it is richly deserved!!!  Let's not fall for that....again.)

[KerleyQ]

Now Trump is hedging on whether Tillerson is his SoS nominee.  He is so terrified of taking a loss via his pick being voted down that he cannot even commit to one.  Also, he actually says "Stay tuned!" to wrap up the tweet.  He really is treating appointing an SoS like it's American Idol.  

[Padma]

Maybe Putin told him, "You're making it too obvious, Don. You can always bring Tillerson in later."

Seriously, with Manafort so close (plus Flynn plus Stone) how is Trump not right in the thick of this?

[Lunata]

4 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

So just to be clear, it's a "fact of life" when the USA does it, but nobody should be messing with the USA?  

Double standard much?

Exactly, that's very clear. The US and Russia have to protect their interests and a dictatorship or fascist government does not serve the best interests of a world powers like either the USA, Russia or China. It's just how life is. "Double standard" has no bearing whatsoever because there is simply no comparison. There is no simple explanation, world affairs are more complex than simply saying "oh we can do it but they can't, right?" Both Russia and the US have been using their power and influence to either overthrow or support dictators all over the world. South America, Haiti, Syria, etc. The US has been aiding the rebels in Syria by sending drones and arms to those rebels fighting the Assad regime. It's how the world has run since the beginning of time. The United States is justified in intervening in the political processes of other countries to attempt to stop human rights abuses.

We can't protect every human right or we'd be invading every country that executes homosexuals. That wouldn't work. But we can at least say "no genocide" and "no slavery" and invade any country involved in that. We have drawn that line and made that commitment many times. We should have helped Rwanda. If some countries government is abusing it's power, than any country should feel justified by stepping in to protect the rights that each human being is entitled to, because they can say, "I am human" and that alone means they deserve, at the lowest level, dignity, respect, to be treated as a human.

Many governments, especially in the poorest parts of the world, cannot control human rights abuses or are the cause of the abuses themselves, which can be seen with Nazi Germany or the massacre in Rawanda. Other nations who are content to deal with their own problems are either reluctant to get involved, do not have the resources to intervene, or are not powerful enough to forcibly stop the offending nation. Since the United States is the last global superpower, it can even be argued that it is their responsibility to intervene in human rights crises. Because of moral rights I think that the United States is totally justified to intervene in the internal political processes of other countries to attempt to stop humans rights abuses. There are four types of people involved in intervening with human rights abuses. The onlookers, potential or active interventionists, those being abused, and those doing the abusing.

Back to Russia. Russia isn't a democracy. Vladimir Putin is called 'President' but he's a ruthless dictator who openly murders enemies, that's how the old KGB dealt with opponents, just kill them, and he is resurrecting the old KGB. Putin doesn't believe in democracy. He learned through his 16 years of experience in the KGB how do deal with an enemy or a threat, annihilate them, that's all. Russia is a superpower that wants to annex every little country surrounding Russia, including newly 'annexed' Crimea. Putin wants all of Eastern Europe. He wants the US too. He's a ruthless dictator that wants to control the world. So it's time that people take off the blinders and become aware of how this world works and how governments maneuver to control it on some level, locally or globally.

Edited December 11, 2016 by Lunata

[DollEyes]

On 12/10/2016 at 11:50 AM, Macbeth said:

No - the Department of Justice is in Obama's wheelhouse.  He appointed Eric Holder as Attorney General  Holder had worked very closely with Obama on his candidacy.  He came from and went back to Covington and Burling a law firm that represents major corporations. - including Halliburton, Morgan Stanley and Blackwater. 

So really no surprise that there were no arrests in the financial industry.

I am editing this to apologize to Dolleyes - I came off as rude.  No disrespect was meant.

Apology accepted, but I still respectfully disagree. Eric Holder may have worked with corporate fat cats back in the day, but he didn't control the Congress, especially not the Republicans, who have literally fought Obama from day one. Obama, Holder and the Democrats may have made mistakes, but Trump & the Republicans have made much more and much worse. 

  The double standards, the hypocrisy and the batshit crazy never stops with Trump.  Trump doesn't just want to be loved or even liked-he wants to be worshipped and most of his followers, paid and otherwise, are happy to oblige. Putin has wanted a high-level puppet in the White House for years and since Obama apparently wasn't it, he's been pissed and plotting ever since. So has Trump, for that matter, ever since that White House Correspondents' dinner several years ago, when Obama made fun of him, which Trump hated, if his mean-mugging the whole time was any indication. If the CIA's report is to be believed, then Trump's other top priority besides himself is making Russia great again, hence his denial of the truth when the truth itself proves otherwise. Trump's picking fights with the US intelligence community is insane, to say the least. Trump may have to work with these people on a daily basis and his insulting them as a whole is not a good look. Between this, his picking Tillerson for SoS and Russia's possibly rigging the election, it looks like Trump might be taking his marching orders from the KGB. 

[fireice13]

14 minutes ago, Lunata said:

Both Russia and the US have been using their power and influence to either overthrow or support dictators all over the world. s.

We can't protect every human right or we'd be invading every country that executes homosexuals. That wouldn't work. But we can at least say "no genocide" and "no slavery" and invade any country involved in that. 

 

We haven't just overthrown dictators. We've overthrown democratically elected leaders who weren't friendly enough to us. That's one of the main reasons Iran hates us and the Iranian hostage crisis occurred. We have propped up dictators that have been friendly to us because we were concerned that the people would democratically elect leaders that weren't so friendly. 

We've left plenty of countries committing genocide and slavery alone. Just look at the African continent. We care about genocide being committed in countries that are important to our interests, but if it's some small country somewhere that doesn't affect the US we don't tend to do much about their human rights abuses. Stalin killed more people than Hitler did, but we didn't take him out or do anything after the war about what he was doing. 

If we're going to police the world and stop human rights abuses we should probably start with our allies like China. We isolate Cuba for years and impose heavy sanctions on that tiny island because of communism and a horrible dictator, but China gets our business. It's horribly hypocritical and the rest of the world can see it. 

We don't own the moral high ground in this world.

[NewDigs]

11 minutes ago, stewedsquash said:

Also, I can't remember if I posted it or not but Dow Chemical is building a plant in Michigan. I don't think it will be very big, but the guy said it was because of Trump being elected ...

Dow is building a research facility in Michigan. Probably not many blue-collar jobs there. Isn't that his supposed job-creation base? 

Wonder how much those 100 jobs are going to cost the taxpayers with what I'm sure will be tax breaks and variances. Wonder when we'll hear the truth a la Carrier.

[stormy]

Hey guess what? This whole "Russian thing"is President Obama's fault, says republican strategist Alice Stewart on CNN. Because now dumb ass trump says the email hacking was done by the Democratic party ,

She also says trump will be tougher on Russia then President Obama. Yeah cause people of your ilk insist President Obama is weak, an apologist and leads from behind.

You people are tiresome.

And, Stewart says no one cares how many more votes Hillary got.

[AntiBeeSpray]

3 minutes ago, stormy said:

Hey guess what? This whole "Russian thing"is President Obama's fault, says republican strategist Alice Stewart on CNN. Because now dumb ass trump says the email hacking was done by the Democratic party ,

She also says trump will be tougher on Russia then President Obama. Yeah cause people of your ilk insist President Obama is weak, an apologist and leads from behind.

You people are tiresome.

And, Stewart says no one cares how many more votes Hillary got.

CNN speaking in air quotes now.

To Alice Stewart:

G_d bless the West Wing.

[BBDi]

I highly doubt that the people who have stood by and looked the other way regarding Russian hacking did so because they thought the US had it coming. 

Plus, the notion of American exceptionalism that most of these folks (conservatives) embrace would say that it's OK if the US does it but not OK if another nation does it, especially to us. 

I don't think it's OK in either direction, and it certainly alarms me that Ryan and McConnell and their ilk are acting like it's OK. 

Imagine if this had happened on Hillary's behalf. There'd be calls for her execution. 

[parisprincess]

Even though the Army/Navy football teams cheered Trump, he basically said he wasn't impressed with the game. How hard would it have been to just congratulate Army and say something nice about the Navy players?  I can't imagine Obama, Clinton or even Bush making a remark like that. Does the pig like anything other than money and his kids? 

So Trump doesn't need intelligence briefings because he is "a smart man", and doesnt "need to hear the same thing every day for the next EIGHT years." Hopefully we can help him not have to deal with briefings by making sure he's only in the White House for four years at most ( preferably less).

I had read about the award Tillerson received from Putin and am not shocked by Trump considering him for SoS. After all, soon-to-be Supreme Leader Trump is Putin's bitch. It is nice, though, to read that John Kerry just received France's highest award, the Legion d'Honneur.

i see that Ivanka is trying to get someone to pay $50,000 to have a coffee date with her (with proceeds going to Eric's foundation). So far the bid is at $18,500. They're going to rake in money any way they can during the next four years.

Lots of daily stories about fat ass, and I'm trying to get used to it because the media is going to be shoving him down our throats daily for what will seem like forever. Shoot me now!

[NewDigs]

Deny deny deny.

Not going to make it go away.

'Mr. Trump’s seeming dismissal of the importance of that daily interaction with intelligence agencies, as well as his claims of politically tainted intelligence reports on Russia, widened a remarkable breach between a president-elect and the agencies he will have to rely on to carry out priorities like fighting terrorism and deterring cyberattacks.

His stance on the issue is also putting him increasingly at odds with senior lawmakers on Capitol Hill, including members of his own party, who say that the evidence of Russian interference is clear and warrants a congressional investigation..

Earlier in the article he shows off his ass intelligence.

'“You know, I’m, like, a smart person,” he said. “I don’t have to be told the same thing in the same words every single day for the next eight years.”'

Because that's how smart people talk. I especially like how he dismisses the PDBs as "same thing in the same words". While he seems only able to say the same thing in the same words.

His sheeple are not very discerning, imho. They also don't seem to care much for facts.

Edited December 11, 2016 by NewDigs

[Duke Silver]

Based purely on what I'm seeing in my Twitter feed (I just can't get myself to watch Fox News, CNN, MSNBC), it seems Trump's team is punching back pretty effectively today.  They are doing a decent job of screaming partisanship....and perhaps even getting their supporters behind the idea that U.S. intelligence services, most notably the CIA, are not to be trusted.  Wow, the attack on institutions (media & government) has served them well.  I wonder if this will even be a lead story beyond Monday.  I remain focused on Masha Gessen's warnings.

[KIMBERLYANN11]

3 minutes ago, NewDigs said:

Deny deny deny.

Not going to make it go away.

'Mr. Trump’s seeming dismissal of the importance of that daily interaction with intelligence agencies, as well as his claims of politically tainted intelligence reports on Russia, widened a remarkable breach between a president-elect and the agencies he will have to rely on to carry out priorities like fighting terrorism and deterring cyberattacks.

His stance on the issue is also putting him increasingly at odds with senior lawmakers on Capitol Hill, including members of his own party, who say that the evidence of Russian interference is clear and warrants a congressional investigation..

Earlier in the article he shows off his ass intelligence.

'“You know, I’m, like, a smart person,” he said. “I don’t have to be told the same thing in the same words every single day for the next eight years.”'

Because that's how smart people talk. I especially like how he dismisses the PDBs as "same thing in the same words". While he seems only able to say the same thing in the same words.

His sheeple are not very discerning, imho. They also don't seem to care much for facts.

Note that he isn't saying he is a smart person.  He's saying he's like a smart person - he just threw a comma in there where it doesn't belong like the not as smart people seem to do.  He's like a smart person in that tubby and a smart person both uhh..  wear clothes - that's it.  tubby and a smart person also both have two hands - although tubby's hands are probably smaller.  

[Lunata]

49 minutes ago, fireice13 said:

We haven't just overthrown dictators. We've overthrown democratically elected leaders who weren't friendly enough to us. That's one of the main reasons Iran hates us and the Iranian hostage crisis occurred. We have propped up dictators that have been friendly to us because we were concerned that the people would democratically elect leaders that weren't so friendly. 

We've left plenty of countries committing genocide and slavery alone. Just look at the African continent. We care about genocide being committed in countries that are important to our interests, but if it's some small country somewhere that doesn't affect the US we don't tend to do much about their human rights abuses. Stalin killed more people than Hitler did, but we didn't take him out or do anything after the war about what he was doing. 

If we're going to police the world and stop human rights abuses we should probably start with our allies like China. We isolate Cuba for years and impose heavy sanctions on that tiny island because of communism and a horrible dictator, but China gets our business. It's horribly hypocritical and the rest of the world can see it. 

We don't own the moral high ground in this world.

Who hasn't

[Duke Silver]

Pew poll: Trump's approval lower than previous incoming presidents

[AntiBeeSpray]

24 minutes ago, Duke Silver said:

Based purely on what I'm seeing in my Twitter feed (I just can't get myself to watch Fox News, CNN, MSNBC), it seems Trump's team is punching back pretty effectively today.  They are doing a decent job of screaming partisanship....and perhaps even getting their supporters behind the idea that U.S. intelligence services, most notably the CIA, are not to be trusted.  Wow, the attack on institutions (media & government) has served them well.  I wonder if this will even be a lead story beyond Monday.  I remain focused on Masha Gessen's warnings.

Yep nothing like continuing to peck away at actual facts with their gaslighting and lies. There are a ton of suckers out there and going from what you mentioned, it sounds like they're buying it, hook, line and sinker. Well here's to keeping the story going (meaning what's going on with the hacking). I am focused on those as well.

[Padma]

1 hour ago, fireice13 said:

We haven't just overthrown dictators. We've overthrown democratically elected leaders who weren't friendly enough to us. That's one of the main reasons Iran hates us and the Iranian hostage crisis occurred. We have propped up dictators that have been friendly to us because we were concerned that the people would democratically elect leaders that weren't so friendly. 

We've left plenty of countries committing genocide and slavery alone. Just look at the African continent. We care about genocide being committed in countries that are important to our interests, but if it's some small country somewhere that doesn't affect the US we don't tend to do much about their human rights abuses. Stalin killed more people than Hitler did, but we didn't take him out or do anything after the war about what he was doing. 

If we're going to police the world and stop human rights abuses we should probably start with our allies like China. We isolate Cuba for years and impose heavy sanctions on that tiny island because of communism and a horrible dictator, but China gets our business. It's horribly hypocritical and the rest of the world can see it. 

We don't own the moral high ground in this world.

Yes, but all of that is completely irrelevant to the issue of Putin sabotaging our election in order to elect Donald Trump.

[KerleyQ]

4 minutes ago, AntiBeeSpray said:

Yep nothing like continuing to peck away at actual facts with their gaslighting and lies. There are a ton of suckers out there and going from what you mentioned, it sounds like they're buying it, hook, line and sinker. Well here's to keeping the story going (meaning what's going on with the hacking). I am focused on those as well.

Yep.  Sadly, I've seen a lot of his supporters on social media saying this "Russia stuff" is just liberal spin and there is no factual basis for it.  It's disturbing, to say the least. They buy PizzaGate hook, line, and sinker because Alex Jones shows them that pizza is mentioned a few times in Podesta's emails, but the CIA states they have conclusive proof of Russia's involvement in our election?  They suddenly become skeptics.  

[Lunata]

On 12/11/2016 at 3:12 PM, fireice13 said:

We haven't just overthrown dictators. We've overthrown democratically elected leaders who weren't friendly enough to us. That's one of the main reasons Iran hates us and the Iranian hostage crisis occurred. We have propped up dictators that have been friendly to us because we were concerned that the people would democratically elect leaders that weren't so friendly. 

We've left plenty of countries committing genocide and slavery alone. Just look at the African continent. We care about genocide being committed in countries that are important to our interests, but if it's some small country somewhere that doesn't affect the US we don't tend to do much about their human rights abuses. Stalin killed more people than Hitler did, but we didn't take him out or do anything after the war about what he was doing. 

If we're going to police the world and stop human rights abuses we should probably start with our allies like China. We isolate Cuba for years and impose heavy sanctions on that tiny island because of communism and a horrible dictator, but China gets our business. It's horribly hypocritical and the rest of the world can see it. 

We don't own the moral high ground in this world.

Don't you agree that imposing heavy sanctions on a communist government run by a ruthless dictator was the right thing to do?

The origins of the embargo go back even further, to when Fidel Castro came to power Jan. 1, 1959. He quickly lost American support as he publicized private land and companies, and imposed heavy taxes on imports from the U.S. In the first year of Castro’s regime, U.S. trade with Cuba decreased 20%.

Just before the U.S. imposed the embargo, Cuba made another jab at “the Yankee imperialists.” In a single night, Castro’s Cabinet nationalized 382 businesses, “including 105 sugar mills, 13 department stores, 18 distilleries, 61 textile factories, eight railways and all banks, save the Royal Bank of Canada and the Bank of Nova Scotia,” according to TIME. “The U.S. need not worry that a strategic embargo will damage private industry in Cuba,” the magazine noted. “It no longer exists.”

The United States and China are clearly not allies. They share no overriding security interests or political values, and their conceptions of world order fundamentally clash. President-elect Trump should be very careful about issuing any warnings to China about any willingness to use force over events in the South China Sea. If he's is not willing to go to war, he should forget about trying to bluff China. And he ever intends to use force against China, he should make that absolutely and unmistakably clear, so that Beijing can be in no doubt. Ambiguity about America’s resolve is the most dangerous possible situation. 

Edited December 13, 2016 by Lunata