S11.E15: Shamrocks And Shockwaves

[motorcitymom65]

7 hours ago, breezy424 said:

As for Tamra's relationship with her daughter, we don't know the whole story.  We have texts leaked by Simon during the custody battle.  We have Sidney's facebook post.  We have Tamra talking about it on last year's reunion.  I don't think any of them are right.  I also think that Simon, and I know I've said this before, needed, and needs, to step up to get Sidney in a better relationship with her mother.  He's just as much a part of the problem.  Sidney was 15 when she decided to cut her mother out of her life.

After everything happened with Sidney, it's interesting that their son lives full time with Tamra by choice because of his anger with his dad.  Their other daughter goes back and forth.  It's screwed up. 

Tamra is a piece of work but so is Simon. 

The end of the facebook post wouldn't copy and paste:

If she really wanted me back in her life she would have taken responsibility and changed two years ago when I told the first time what was causing our relationship to suffer. Obviously, I am just another storyline that feeds her fame and her wallet. Now you're using Spencer as a storyline, I hope he realizes it before the damage is done.

It'ss interesting that Sidney expects her mother to change and take responsibility while Sidney doesn't take any responsibility.  That's a problem right there.  I think dad enables her.  Yeah, Tamra does things on the show that are outrageous and I can't stand her.  I never considered Sidney to be a storyline and she really has only come up because she refuses to have a relationship with her mother.  The other two children have never been a 'storyline' IIRC.  It's all very sad for these kids.

Yea, Simon is no hero in this story. I do believe that he inserts himself negatively in the relationship between Sidney and Tamra. She fought hard to keep Sidney in therapy, as the Therapist indicated that the therapy was working and would be important moving forward. Simon said it wasn't helping and fought Tamra in court to have it stopped (because of her age, Sidney was allowed to discountinue the therapy). He also fought her when she attempted to get their other two younger children in therapy as well. It has never appeared to me that he wanted to do anything to help the relationships move in a positive direction. Below is an excerpt from the Therapist after Simon made public comments about Tamra being a neglectful parent, falsely quoting the Therapist to back up his claim. This Therapist accused him of lying under oath to make Tamra look bad. 

http://allthingsrh.com/exclusive-therapist-supports-tamra-says-simon-barney-lied/

The Therapist also said that Tamra was very concerned about making sure that the children had a positive and close relationship with Simon. It doesn't sound like Simon had the same concerns about making sure that their mother stayed in their lives. 

[motorcitymom65]

8 minutes ago, LIMOM said:

Perhaps because the non stop bragging and the superior attitude get on their co-stars nerves as well?

I've never understood the deal about Heather bragging nonstop. I rarely hear her mention her wealth when she is with the others. Usually her talk of unique ice cube shapes and the like happen with Terry or her builder. She is usually the first to comment positively on someone else's home, simple decorations, etc. I never hear her act like she is better because she has more resources or make the others feel "less than". I always remember her first season when she had the season finale party at her home. Only Tamra had been there to see her huge estate, and the others were all shocked. I remember Alexis, Gretchen and Vicki all commenting that they knew she was wealthy, but had no idea from anything she had ever said that she lived in a place so grand. I just don't see where she brags to the others in a way that would irritate them. She said as much to Vicki a couple of seasons ago, and Vicki agreed that Heather didn't do that. 

[pkayem]

When Tamra was screaming at Kelly she said "Don't talk about my F'ING DAUGHTER".   What kind of mother calls her daughter "f'ing?" 

[Jel]

I haven't really noticed her bragging about her wealth either. What bugs me about her mostly is the pearl clutching, but only when it suits her.  She's not okay with foul language from Kelly, but okay with it from Tamra. And she didn't see anything wrong with Tamra shoving Kelly because Kelly "deserved it"? Erm. I can imagine what a huge deal it would have been had it been Kelly who shoved Tamra. 

Full disclosure: I really didn't like Heather the first year, largely because of the huge scene she made about having several microns of icing removed from a cake. In my mind, you can't be all about good manners and how one behaves and then violate your own rules and expect no one to notice or care.  Humiliating a guest in your home is not the done thing. You humiliate them after, in private, amongst your friends ;)  Anyhoo, that's just a personal gripe of mine.

I did think she got much better over the last couple of seasons, and I can honestly say I began to like her.  But unfortunately, this episode has made my Heather dislike come screeching back.  I hope she can turn it around because I was kind of enjoying enjoying Heather.

[motorcitymom65]

14 minutes ago, Jel said:

I haven't really noticed her bragging about her wealth either. What bugs me about her mostly is the pearl clutching, but only when it suits her.  She's not okay with foul language from Kelly, but okay with it from Tamra. And she didn't see anything wrong with Tamra shoving Kelly because Kelly "deserved it"? Erm. I can imagine what a huge deal it would have been had it been Kelly who shoved Tamra. 

Full disclosure: I really didn't like Heather the first year, largely because of the huge scene she made about having several microns of icing removed from a cake. In my mind, you can't be all about good manners and how one behaves and then violate your own rules and expect no one to notice or care.  Humiliating a guest in your home is not the done thing. You humiliate them after, in private, amongst your friends ;)  Anyhoo, that's just a personal gripe of mine.

I did think she got much better over the last couple of seasons, and I can honestly say I began to like her.  But unfortunately, this episode has made my Heather dislike come screeching back.  I hope she can turn it around because I was kind of enjoying enjoying Heather.

I like Heather for a lot of reasons, but mainly because I think she is a very good friend to her friends. I think it is common for folks to give their friends a pass on things they don't give others a pass for in similar situations. I can be down with someone badmouthing a person I don't like, but go bat shit crazy if they said the same about my friend. Heather and the rest of them have seen Kelly behave in a crazy fashion in public many times. In this instance Heather just found out that Kelly was telling others personal financial shit about her. So I don't blame her for not having any issues with how Kelly gets treated. Heather is someone who for the most part moves on with her conflicts. She has her say, listens to the other side, and for the most part moves on. We have seen her do this with Kelly as well. She has given her a chance to redeem herself, but it just doesn't stick. 

[ElDosEquis]

15 hours ago, yourmomiseasy said:

If grandma is in Palm Desert gambling, then who are they dumping the kid off with?  You still didn't solve the problem :)

Sitting in the room, glued to their cell phone, like any good little vidiot these days?

[WireWrap]

3 hours ago, LIMOM said:

Perhaps because the non stop bragging and the superior attitude get on their co-stars nerves as well?

When has she bragged nonstop to any of the HWs about anything, be it money, family, life? I haven't seen/heard her do any of that and none of the others have ever claimed she did/does anything like that.

37 minutes ago, Jel said:

I haven't really noticed her bragging about her wealth either. What bugs me about her mostly is the pearl clutching, but only when it suits her.  She's not okay with foul language from Kelly, but okay with it from Tamra. And she didn't see anything wrong with Tamra shoving Kelly because Kelly "deserved it"? Erm. I can imagine what a huge deal it would have been had it been Kelly who shoved Tamra. 

Full disclosure: I really didn't like Heather the first year, largely because of the huge scene she made about having several microns of icing removed from a cake. In my mind, you can't be all about good manners and how one behaves and then violate your own rules and expect no one to notice or care.  Humiliating a guest in your home is not the done thing. You humiliate them after, in private, amongst your friends ;)  Anyhoo, that's just a personal gripe of mine.

I did think she got much better over the last couple of seasons, and I can honestly say I began to like her.  But unfortunately, this episode has made my Heather dislike come screeching back.  I hope she can turn it around because I was kind of enjoying enjoying Heather.

I don't think Heather is "clutching her pearls" at all, I think she is really shocked by how low some of these HWs go. She reacted the same way to Tamra and Vicki in the beginning as well but has come to accept their behavior because she knows them and Kelly's vulgar behavior is worse than Tamra/Vicki's combined IMO and would shock most people in real life. LOL

As for her saying Kelly deserved to get shoved, had the tables been turned and Tamra attacked Kelly/daughter, I think Heather would have said the same to Tamra because you don't bring kids/relationships into these fights. 

Why is it that Kelly thinks her daughter/relationship is off limits but Tamra's aren't? Kelly is all over her twitter account attacking Tamra, calling her a "Momster"/bad parent left and right and going after anyone that calls her out on that behavior! LOL

[sasha206]

12 hours ago, breezy424 said:

As for Tamra's relationship with her daughter, we don't know the whole story.  We have texts leaked by Simon during the custody battle.  We have Sidney's facebook post.  We have Tamra talking about it on last year's reunion.  I don't think any of them are right.  I also think that Simon, and I know I've said this before, needed, and needs, to step up to get Sidney in a better relationship with her mother.  He's just as much a part of the problem.  Sidney was 15 when she decided to cut her mother out of her life.

After everything happened with Sidney, it's interesting that their son lives full time with Tamra by choice because of his anger with his dad.  Their other daughter goes back and forth.  It's screwed up. 

Tamra is a piece of work but so is Simon. 

The end of the facebook post wouldn't copy and paste:

If she really wanted me back in her life she would have taken responsibility and changed two years ago when I told the first time what was causing our relationship to suffer. Obviously, I am just another storyline that feeds her fame and her wallet. Now you're using Spencer as a storyline, I hope he realizes it before the damage is done.

It'ss interesting that Sidney expects her mother to change and take responsibility while Sidney doesn't take any responsibility.  That's a problem right there.  I think dad enables her.  Yeah, Tamra does things on the show that are outrageous and I can't stand her.  I never considered Sidney to be a storyline and she really has only come up because she refuses to have a relationship with her mother.  The other two children have never been a 'storyline' IIRC.  It's all very sad for these kids.

What does Sidney, a 15 year-old, with no control over her mom's career and being dragged into it, have to take responsibiliy for?  Clearly, she is upset that Tamra speaks negatively about her dad.   Now, Simon is no prize, but a child has made a decision that her mother is too toxic to her life.  That's a hard decision for someone that young to make.  And it's not like we haven't seen Tamra's toxicity on the show before.  

Edited October 13, 2016 by sasha206

[LIMOM]

4 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I've never understood the deal about Heather bragging nonstop. I rarely hear her mention her wealth when she is with the others. Usually her talk of unique ice cube shapes and the like happen with Terry or her builder. She is usually the first to comment positively on someone else's home, simple decorations, etc. I never hear her act like she is better because she has more resources or make the others feel "less than". I always remember her first season when she had the season finale party at her home. Only Tamra had been there to see her huge estate, and the others were all shocked. I remember Alexis, Gretchen and Vicki all commenting that they knew she was wealthy, but had no idea from anything she had ever said that she lived in a place so grand. I just don't see where she brags to the others in a way that would irritate them. She said as much to Vicki a couple of seasons ago, and Vicki agreed that Heather didn't do that. 

She is more subtle about it but what do you think that the show and share about the Chanel boots and umbrella was all about?

[WireWrap]

32 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

What does Sidney, a 15 year-old, with no control over her mom's career and being dragged into it, have to take responsibiliy for?  Clearly, she is upset that Tamra speaks negatively about her dad.   Now, Simon is no prize, but a child has made a decision that her mother is too toxic to her life.  That's a hard decision for someone that young to make.  And it's not like we haven't seen Tamra's toxicity on the show before.  

Yes, Tamra has spoken about her divorce from Simon and the ensuing issues with custody on the show but so has Simon, just not in person but through Jenna, yet Sidney doesn't appear to hold him to the same level of accountability. Also, it was Sidney that refused to participate in the therapy with Tamra, not the other way around and it was Simon that tried to block the therapy to begin with. Is Sidney a victim of both parents bad behavior, YES, but she only holds 1 of them accountable at this point, which is wrong IMO. Hopefully, Sidney will stop blaming her mother for everything 1 day, seek to reconcile a relationship with her and that Tamra will be open to it without hesitation.

[WireWrap]

10 minutes ago, LIMOM said:

She is more subtle about it but what do you think that the show and share about the Chanel boots and umbrella was all about?

Her excitement about going to Ireland and her excitement about a neat gadget (the umbrella)! LOL

Heather's lifestyle is more like what this show was initially intended to be like, the life of legit wealthy women showing the huge homes/designer clothes/high end jewelry and expensive trips. LOL

[sasha206]

4 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Yes, Tamra has spoken about her divorce from Simon and the ensuing issues with custody on the show but so has Simon, just not in person but through Jenna, yet Sidney doesn't appear to hold him to the same level of accountability. Also, it was Sidney that refused to participate in the therapy with Tamra, not the other way around and it was Simon that tried to block the therapy to begin with. Is Sidney a victim of both parents bad behavior, YES, but she only holds 1 of them accountable at this point, which is wrong IMO. Hopefully, Sidney will stop blaming her mother for everything 1 day, seek to reconcile a relationship with her and that Tamra will be open to it without hesitation.

My guess is though if the tables were turned and Simon was on a reality show where he routinely fights with people, routinely goes below the belt, routinely trashes his ex on TV, most people wouldn't fault a teenager for not wanting anything to do with Simon.   We only see what Tamra portrays on screen and we know what that is like.  It's hard for me to fault a child who finds her mother's behavior on TV revolting, who feels that her need for fame is more important than mothering her.   I'm sure she doesn't hold Simon responsible because he is (1) there for her, (2) not on a TV show and acting in a revolting manner that causes her great embarrassment and pain.  I never liked Simon, but I'll take his parenting skills over the woman that unleashed Ryan to the world.

[Muffyn]

On ‎10‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 2:41 PM, zoeysmom said:

I also don't think Tamra is a very good actress but I do believe she does pull the crying and temper tampers at the drop of a hat because people let her get away with it.

This is so much the crux of it all.  Tamra's behavior is unacceptable to most people.  She loves histrionics, taking things to an absolute extreme.  She does horrible things to people, but they are forgotten when she goes into her major victim mode.  The only exception was during the infamous run away from the table scene when the whole group was riding her for her behavior.   Otherwise, she goes after one person and then has a fit, painting herself as a victim, and one of her coworkers will step  in to try to calm the rabid honey badger down.  She can go from aggressor to victim in seconds. 

Full disclosure: I am attuned to this because my mother does this.  She will attack people, usually more subtly, sometimes  viciously.  When they finally snap then suddenly mom is the victim.  And people run to her side.  It takes people a long time to see through this kind of behavior.

I agree Simon has not been a good parent if he was unwilling to have his children see a therapist to help them with issues surrounding the divorce.  He often came off as a controlling jackass on the show.  The children could be helped by therapy; it could help them better navigate through the messiness of the destruction of their parents relationship  and let them know they are absolutely not at fault.  Also, given the level of acrimony, it would help them understand that their parents aren't behaving well and that is not the children's fault. 

However, if a child, now young adult, says their parent is abusive, I am going to believe them.  Abuse comes in many different forms.  If nothing else, Sydney may feel abandoned by her mother since, in her mind, her mother chose a reality show over her children.

On ‎10‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 3:40 PM, bichonblitz said:

I ask myself this every week! The two richest bitches (Heather and Shannon) who were born wealthy, adore simple white trash Tamra and claim to be buddies with her IRL. These two couldn't be more different from Tamra as far as lifestyle and upbringing goes. I do not get it.

As far as why Tamra stays on the show despite the fact that she embarrasses the shit out of her daughter is simple. Tamra and Eddie have no other income. Heather, Shannon and even Meghan and Kelly all married men with money. Eddie doesn't even work outside the gym anymore and never had money. How successful is that gym? Anybody know? Nobody ever talks about it anymore. As soon as she stops working on this show, the money dries up for Tams and Eddie. 

Heather and Shannon do not see through Tamra's victim act.  On several occasions they have called her out on her heinous behavior, but they always cave after she has one of her woe is me fits.  It shows that they are both kind people at their cores.  Unfortunately they don't see how they are being manipulated.

As far as land loan gate, I can easily imagine Kelly being at lunch with someone and mentioning she was on the show.  That person saying, "Oh, I've met Heather.  My firm arranged her loan for the land she bought."  Not a big deal.  Kelly is trying to  turn it into a take down fancy pants moment without realizing (or caring) about the effect her comments could have on the person who made the comment's life.  

[WireWrap]

7 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

My guess is though if the tables were turned and Simon was on a reality show where he routinely fights with people, routinely goes below the belt, routinely trashes his ex on TV, most people wouldn't fault a teenager for not wanting anything to do with Simon.   We only see what Tamra portrays on screen and we know what that is like.  It's hard for me to fault a child who finds her mother's behavior on TV revolting, who feels that her need for fame is more important than mothering her.   I'm sure she doesn't hold Simon responsible because he is (1) there for her, (2) not on a TV show and acting in a revolting manner that causes her great embarrassment and pain.  I never liked Simon, but I'll take his parenting skills over the woman that unleashed Ryan to the world.

I guess my take on this is that both parents have acted badly, not just Tamra, but that Sidney refuses to see both sides. And, I disagree, even though Simon wasn't/isn't on the show, he still made sure his position was represented on camera through a third party (Jenna) time and time again for 2 seasons/years.

Ryan is an idiot for sure.

[HunterHunted]

I don't think Heather explicitly said that Kelly deserved to get shoved. Heather said, "I don't care. You shouldn't have said anything about her kid." It was arctic when she said it. We always talk about Heather acting. She was not acting when she said that.

[IKnowRight]

What we hear/shown this episode in regards to Heather's lot:  Kelly says, "I swear to God on JC, she told me she gave her her first loan, that's what I told you." After denying she, herself, directly investigated the finances. She's denying the digging but is certainly dishing info to Tamra.

Flashback of what the editors show us: Tamra states Heather has plenty of money from acting.  Kelly says, "really and my friend did the loan for her."  (With a smirk on her face) We don't see how the convo started, but it seems to me that Tamra was responding that Heather has plenty of cash. Yes, it sounds a bit more innocent on behalf of Kelly at this point, but still questionable to say while filming. As usual, we wonder what production is leaving out.

Talking Head Kelly states months later:  "I have a Realtor friend that knows the Dubrows and she told me that they couldn't afford the lot and they had to get a loan though..."

Clearly, Kelly is telling us this info is coming from her realtor friend second hand, to illustrate that she wasn't the one with the shovel investigating the Dubrows. However, she just threw the realtor (and therefore that agency)  under the bus for divulging confidential info.  Explaining herself is not helping her case.

Edited October 13, 2016 by IKnowRight

[yourmomiseasy]

1 hour ago, LIMOM said:

She is more subtle about it but what do you think that the show and share about the Chanel boots and umbrella was all about?

I know that when I get cool new things that I'm excited about I'll show my friends and/or family.  Just yesterday I messaged my mom with a picture of my new shoes.  I wasn't trying to be fancy pants with my mom and make her jealous.  I was excited about my cute shoes and wanted to share that with her.

[ElDosEquis]

I personally have never GAS about the shape of someone's ice, the cost of their cabinets, the budget that has risen astronomically over their original projection or their preferred drink - which has been shortened to an annoying catch phrase.

Sometimes it's NOT the mention of wealth, it's the inference of money and the upturned nose at what most of us feel is 'normal or regular'?

[teapot]

2 minutes ago, yourmomiseasy said:

I know that when I get cool new things that I'm excited about I'll show my friends and/or family.  Just yesterday I messaged my mom with a picture of my new shoes.  I wasn't trying to be fancy pants with my mom and make her jealous.  I was excited about my cute shoes and wanted to share that with her.

I'm never sure about that!  I am obsessed w/clothes/cosmetics/shoes/handbags/accessories (my poor Mister, LOL...but I work too!) and I'm always buying stuff, and of course I want to show everyone on my Instagram but I never mean to brag.  I have no idea what the correct protocol there is?

[yourmomiseasy]

Only show to those you know would be interested and don't broadcast out to IG or FB?  Also, if it's something a little more on the luxury/designer end put a lot of thought into if the person is going to be excited or jealous or judgey. 

[Former Nun]

41 minutes ago, teapot said:

and of course I want to show everyone on my Instagram but I never mean to brag

Sadly, there are people who think others' ordinary comments on ANYTHING (their homes, kids, cars, stuff) is bragging.  I'll never get it.

[Former Nun]

54 minutes ago, IKnowRight said:

However, she just threw the realtor (and therefore that agency)  under the bus for divulging confidential info

I hope there's blowback for/on the Realtor™ (Realtor is a trademarked name).  Not every real estate agent is a Realtor.

[Jel]

4 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I like Heather for a lot of reasons, but mainly because I think she is a very good friend to her friends. I think it is common for folks to give their friends a pass on things they don't give others a pass for in similar situations. I can be down with someone badmouthing a person I don't like, but go bat shit crazy if they said the same about my friend. Heather and the rest of them have seen Kelly behave in a crazy fashion in public many times. In this instance Heather just found out that Kelly was telling others personal financial shit about her. So I don't blame her for not having any issues with how Kelly gets treated. Heather is someone who for the most part moves on with her conflicts. She has her say, listens to the other side, and for the most part moves on. We have seen her do this with Kelly as well. She has given her a chance to redeem herself, but it just doesn't stick. 

She does seem to be good to her friends, and that's awesome.

I also agree that many people give their friends a pass for things they wouldn't give to someone else, but do most people spend as much time on the topic of decorum as Heather does? That's what irks me about her.  She has a high standard of behavior that she applies unequally. If she wants to have an unequal standard, fine, whatever, but then maybe it's best to just get off the topic entirely instead of applying it only when it suits her, because she's coming off as a hypocrite.

Ultimately though, the whole thing kind of looked to me like more manufactured drama to some degree  It was the way they were all so quick to go in hard about the stupid nose flicking, the teaming up and closing ranks that sent up the red flags to me.  

3 hours ago, WireWrap said:

When has she bragged nonstop to any of the HWs about anything, be it money, family, life? I haven't seen/heard her do any of that and none of the others have ever claimed she did/does anything like that.

I don't think Heather is "clutching her pearls" at all, I think she is really shocked by how low some of these HWs go. She reacted the same way to Tamra and Vicki in the beginning as well but has come to accept their behavior because she knows them and Kelly's vulgar behavior is worse than Tamra/Vicki's combined IMO and would shock most people in real life. LOL

As for her saying Kelly deserved to get shoved, had the tables been turned and Tamra attacked Kelly/daughter, I think Heather would have said the same to Tamra because you don't bring kids/relationships into these fights. 

Why is it that Kelly thinks her daughter/relationship is off limits but Tamra's aren't? Kelly is all over her twitter account attacking Tamra, calling her a "Momster"/bad parent left and right and going after anyone that calls her out on that behavior! LOL

Agree to disagree? Because when I think of "pearl clutching" Heather's outraged face immediately pops into my head.

Kelly was over the line (hey, I already said that in another post! Not defending Kelly's brand o' crazy, and I have no idea at all why she thinks her kid is off limits and Tamra's isn't), but even still, and no matter how angry they make you, you can't shove people. I told my son that when he was two years old. Tamra was in the wrong there, and I think Heather was too, in, if not outright condoning it, then rationalizing or minimizing it. She could have opted to say nothing, which probably would have been a better choice.  

[Former Nun]

21 hours ago, yourmomiseasy said:

Kelly was making fun of Shannon's alma mater, USC.  Kelly also went to a Pac 12 school (it was the Pac 10 back when they were both in school).  A little intra-conference shit talking is totally acceptable, but not the first few minutes you meet someone and you don't keep doing it if they are obviously offended by it.  Also, the shit Kelly was talking was tired and played out about 25 years ago, but it is totally Kelly's MO to just repeat a tired and played out joke louder and louder if no one finds it funny.

Shannon graduated from USC.  Does anyone know if Kelly did--Arizona State University?

[motorcitymom65]

2 hours ago, LIMOM said:

She is more subtle about it but what do you think that the show and share about the Chanel boots and umbrella was all about?

So interesting the different takes we can all have on the same scene (and for the record, I am usually the odd one and my take is different, which is probably the case here as well). It never in a million years occurred to me that she was bragging. She looked like someone who was really excited about something new that she had gotten. The umbrella looked cool to me, and I would have been showing it off to pretty much everyone I brushed up against, but then again I didn't know it existed.  If I get a new gadget or frock that delights me, I will twirl around in my giddiness. Trust me that it will probably not be terribly expensive, but I might still be delighted about it. Most of my friends are the same. We show each other our new boots, handbags, makeup,  etc. We drag each other into our bedrooms to see a gorgeous new duvet or into the pantry to see our cool new system for organizing spices. Is this bragging in general, or only if the item is expensive? 

[teapot]

6 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

So interesting the different takes we can all have on the same scene (and for the record, I am usually the odd one and my take is different, which is probably the case here as well). It never in a million years occurred to me that she was bragging. She looked like someone who was really excited about something new that she had gotten. The umbrella looked cool to me, and I would have been showing it off to pretty much everyone I brushed up against, but then again I didn't know it existed.  If I get a new gadget or frock that delights me, I will twirl around in my giddiness. Trust me that it will probably not be terribly expensive, but I might still be delighted about it. Most of my friends are the same. We show each other our new boots, handbags, makeup,  etc. We drag each other into our bedrooms to see a gorgeous new duvet or into the pantry to see our cool new system for organizing spices. Is this bragging in general, or only if the item is expensive? 

see, I always think it's part of the fun!  If my girlfriend goes shopping, I'm always asking, "ohhhh what'd you buy?"

[LIMOM]

1 hour ago, yourmomiseasy said:

I know that when I get cool new things that I'm excited about I'll show my friends and/or family.  Just yesterday I messaged my mom with a picture of my new shoes.  I wasn't trying to be fancy pants with my mom and make her jealous.  I was excited about my cute shoes and wanted to share that with her.

I guess I must be different or most likely old as I don't engage in that type of behaviors.

[LIMOM]

19 minutes ago, Former Nun said:

Shannon graduated from USC.  Does anyone know if Kelly did--Arizona State University?

While this joke is old, Kellu is hardly the first one or the last one to say it.

One of my neighbor's kid is going to USC and it is the first thing that popped in my mind.

Of course, I refrained from saying to my neighbor even though her daughter is definitely spoiled!

[teapot]

2 hours ago, WireWrap said:

 

Heather's lifestyle is more like what this show was initially intended to be like, the life of legit wealthy women showing the huge homes/designer clothes/high end jewelry and expensive trips. LOL

and I love that!  I've actually rewound the Kardashians (LOL, no judgment here, right?) to check out their bathroom that they were hanging out talking in (mind you, two people do not even comfortably *fit* in my bathroom, so there's that...)

[Snarky McSnarky]

21 minutes ago, Former Nun said:

Shannon graduated from USC.  Does anyone know if Kelly did--Arizona State University?

Information regarding her college attendance has not surfaced on the Internet.  No enrollment dates, no Major, no graduation.  Almost like it never happened.  

[ghoulina]

51 minutes ago, yourmomiseasy said:

 

Only show to those you know would be interested and don't broadcast out to IG or FB?  Also, if it's something a little more on the luxury/designer end put a lot of thought into if the person is going to be excited or jealous or judgey. 

 

I don't think we should hide our lives because other people may not have what we have. I post new stuff on IG or FB because it's the easiest way to share with multiple people. And I don't buy expensive stuff. I can't afford it. But yes, I'll post a picture of my new $40 Vans. They're cute, why not? Heather might do this on a different level. It doesn't bother me. Sometimes she can be a bit OTT, but I didn't think the umbrella thing was. At all. I think it was more about how neat the carrying case was. It's nice to have a hands-free way to tote your umbrella in rainy Ireland. I was more bothered by her "aha!" moment, likening it to a bow and arrow, as if she thought the Irish were great archers or something. 

[slitz]

So messaging YOUR OWN MOTHER a picture of your new shoes is now a type of behavior?  FFS, it's her mother and it's a pair of shoes.  I just can't with that.

You don't like Heather.  Fine.  You think she's a braggart and full of herself and all la-di-da.  Whatever.  Obviously there are others on the board who disagree.  

But to claim that someone showing their mother something they bought is an offensible type to behavior is just mind boggling to me.  

[Snarky McSnarky]

5 minutes ago, LIMOM said:

While this joke is old, Kellu is hardly the first one or the last one to say it.

One of my neighbor's kid is going to USC and it is the first thing that popped in my mind.

Of course, I refrained from saying to my neighbor even though her daughter is definitely spoiled!

I graduated from USC and I think University of Spoiled Children is funny, even though the term has been around for ages.  When your school mascot is a Trojan, you'd better have a sense of humor about these things.  However, the way Kelly said it to someone she'd supposedly never met before was not a great idea.  She also didn't seem to be saying it in a fun way.

[HunterHunted]

23 minutes ago, Snarky McSnarky said:

Information regarding her college attendance has not surfaced on the Internet.  No enrollment dates, no Major, no graduation.  Almost like it never happened.  

But she must have attended because she said so and where else would you learn a word like notrocious.

I really liked Heather's umbrella bag. I'm going to look a regular person version.

I also thought Heather was dead wrong to say what she did to Kelly after Tamra's shove.

It's interesting when these kind of things happen, they reveal the underlying dynamics of the cast. Vicki was silent and didn't say shit in support of Kelly, basically revealing that Vicki only hung out with Kelly until she could get back in the good graces of the other ladies. Heather and Shannon were cold as hexagonal ice and revealed that they are barely tolerating Kelly. Meghan agreed that Tamra shouldn't have pushed her, but also chastised Kelly for saying the shit that she did. It all had the effect of telegraphing to Kelly that they don't like her. Of course she reached out to the one person who does like and care for her, Michael, even though she seems determined to ruin his reputation on this show.

[tumamita]

Kelly needs to take a long look in the mirror before calling anyone else a drunk... what a hypocrite!

[SCS]

3 hours ago, Muffyn said:

 

As far as land loan gate, I can easily imagine Kelly being at lunch with someone and mentioning she was on the show.  That person saying, "Oh, I've met Heather.  My firm arranged her loan for the land she bought."  Not a big deal.  Kelly is trying to  turn it into a take down fancy pants moment without realizing (or caring) about the effect her comments could have on the person who made the comment's life.  

It will be interesting to see how this plays out (if at all) because, while Kelly allegedly said this, the only person to put a name to said agent was Tams -- on Twitter, wasn't it? Kelly's use of "my friend" is vague -- Tams use of the name is specific.

Question to any of this board's bona-fide-by-golly-actually-went-to-law-school-and passed-the-bar attorneys (in contrast with the I've-seen-every-episode-of-LA Law-twice attorneys): Say the woman in question gets fired or sanctioned (whatever sanctions happen in the loan industry) -- the case is investigated and reveals nothing --  no paper trail (like an email) that she commented to anyone on the Dubrows' finances, no witnesses who might have been in the office and heard her comments, nothing turns up via an IT search -- nothing except this episode and Tams' Twitter, of course, in which she is named.

So there's no record of any inappropriate conduct but all this causes her undue financial hardship, loss of reputation, whatever. Who is in trouble? Kelly? Or Tams? And what recourse would the loan officer have?

Edited October 13, 2016 by steelcitysister

[motorcitymom65]

2 hours ago, teapot said:

I'm never sure about that!  I am obsessed w/clothes/cosmetics/shoes/handbags/accessories (my poor Mister, LOL...but I work too!) and I'm always buying stuff, and of course I want to show everyone on my Instagram but I never mean to brag.  I have no idea what the correct protocol there is?

Do what makes you happy. Most people are thrilled when someone they care about gets something that makes them happy. I think it's in the presentation. For instance, Alexis drove everyone nuts because of the way she talked about her stuff. Someone mentioned being excited about a new car and Alexis mentioned that they had 4 cars. Someone commented on another person's ring, and Alexis threw out that she had a gazillion dollar ring of her own back at home in a safe, and a cheaper one that she wore on a daily basis so as not to draw attention to her wealth. Someone talked about buying a house and Alexis threw out that she had a nice new house, but that since owning was a stupid thing to do, they did the prudent financial thing and rented instead. It was insane and nonstop. Her display of her stuff was always in a way that made it seem like what she had was better than what anyone else had. No one can put up with that bullshit for very long. 

[zulualpha]

5 hours ago, WireWrap said:

I don't think Heather is "clutching her pearls" at all, I think she is really shocked by how low some of these HWs go

Perhaps, but I think it's more about Heather protecting her brand and her burgeoning empire.

18 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

really liked Heather's umbrella bag. I'm going to look a regular person version.

Me too, it was super cute and chic.  I would never want rich people like Heather or Lisa Vanderpump to stop flaunting their wealth.  If I ever win the lottery I need to know what kind of ice to serve, what to wear and how to travel in style.

[Giselle]

2 hours ago, yourmomiseasy said:

Only show to those you know would be interested and don't broadcast out to IG or FB?  Also, if it's something a little more on the luxury/designer end put a lot of thought into if the person is going to be excited or jealous or judgey. 

But then how will burglers, robbers and thieves to the rich and famous know what's ripe for the taking?

[jaync]

Quote

That is one thing that is probably more personal and ONLY done to people who have a sense of humor.

Quote

As for Shannon, make no mistake the only reason that Tamra is friends with Shannon is because Shannon showed her during her 1st season that SHE IS NOT THE ONE! Tamra and DuBrow both tried IT.

Yep, and Vicki best know not to try her, neither.

[motorcitymom65]

4 hours ago, sasha206 said:

What does Sidney, a 15 year-old, with no control over her mom's career and being dragged into it, have to take responsibiliy for?  Clearly, she is upset that Tamra speaks negatively about her dad.   Now, Simon is no prize, but a child has made a decision that her mother is too toxic to her life.  That's a hard decision for someone that young to make.  And it's not like we haven't seen Tamra's toxicity on the show before.  

It seems like Sidney took Simon's side in the whole divorce deal. Simon was more than happy to be on the show when they were married. He was the one who first threw out that Tamra picked they show over her family, and it sounds like Sidney is agreeing. I never liked Tamra back then, but always thought that Simon was worse. He was super controlling of her, so I see no reason to believe he isn't equally controlling with his children. He always came across as incredibly maniupulative to me and probably is with a confused and hurt child. He has said plenty of terrible stuff about Tamra in the press (and she has certainly said her share about him as well). Since he is on record as having lied under oath to make Tamra look bad, I think it is fair to assume this is his character. He can feel however he wants to feel about Tamra and the show, but I think it is beyond shitty for him to not do everything in his control to make sure that Sidney has a relationship with her mother. He worked hard to stop their joint counseling, which I never understood. As Tamra has said, if she is such a shitty mom, why does he drop the younger ones off at her house for weeks at a time while he goes on vacation? If he thinks she is harmful or dangerous, surely he wouldn't do that. 

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, Jel said:

 

Agree to disagree? Because when I think of "pearl clutching" Heather's outraged face immediately pops into my head.

Kelly was over the line (hey, I already said that in another post! Not defending Kelly's brand o' crazy, and I have no idea at all why she thinks her kid is off limits and Tamra's isn't), but even still, and no matter how angry they make you, you can't shove people. I told my son that when he was two years old. Tamra was in the wrong there, and I think Heather was too, in, if not outright condoning it, then rationalizing or minimizing it. She could have opted to say nothing, which probably would have been a better choice.  

This is from Heather's blog...."I don't blame Tamra for her reaction, the catalyst was Kelly and this was what, the FOURTH time I've been around her in public and witnessed some kind of outrageous behavior" So, I think her reaction to Kelly was more so because Kelly keeps ruining group things and going into the store was something Heather wanted to do to calm herself/the others down and once again, Kelly ruined it. But, I do agree to disagree.

15 minutes ago, steelcitysister said:

It will be interesting to see how this plays out (if at all) because, while Kelly allegedly said this, the only person to put a name to said agent was Tams -- on Twitter, wasn't it? Kelly's use of "my friend" is vague -- Tams use of the name is specific.

Question to any of this board's bona-fide-by-golly-actually-went-to-law-school-and passed-the-bar attorneys (in contrast with the I've-seen-every-episode-of-LA Law-twice attorneys): Say the woman in question gets fired or sanctioned (whatever sanctions happen in the loan industry) -- the case is investigated and reveals nothing --  no paper trail (like an email) that she commented to anyone on the Dubrows' finances, no witnesses who might have been in the office and heard her comments, nothing turns up via an IT search -- nothing except this episode and Tams' Twitter, of course, in which she is named.

So there's no record of any inappropriate conduct but all this causes her undue financial hardship, loss of reputation, whatever. Who is in trouble? Kelly? Or Tams? And what recourse would the loan officer have?

Well, we saw a snippet of Kelly actually telling Tamra about this and I suspect she also named the woman on camera then. So.....there should be video evidence of Kelly naming her. LOL

10 minutes ago, zulualpha said:

Perhaps, but I think it's more about Heather protecting her brand and her burgeoning empire.

Me too, it was super cute and chic.  I would never want rich people like Heather or Lisa Vanderpump to stop flaunting their wealth.  If I ever win the lottery I need to know what kind of ice to serve, what to wear and how to travel in style.

I think the Heather we see/hear on the show is really who she is in real life. Her behavior has been pretty consistent since her second season. 

[SCS]

5 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

 

Well, we saw a snippet of Kelly actually telling Tamra about this and I suspect she also named the woman on camera then. So.....there should be video evidence of Kelly naming her. LOL

 

 

Right. That's not my question. My question is: if there is no evidence -- on video, on paper, via glottal clicks or interpretive dance -- no way to substantiate Tams' naming her on Twitter, what recourse would she -- a private citizen and not a Bravo employee -- have?

[sasha206]

1 minute ago, motorcitymom65 said:

It seems like Sidney took Simon's side in the whole divorce deal. Simon was more than happy to be on the show when they were married. He was the one who first threw out that Tamra picked they show over her family, and it sounds like Sidney is agreeing. I never liked Tamra back then, but always thought that Simon was worse. He was super controlling of her, so I see no reason to believe he isn't equally controlling with his children. He always came across as incredibly maniupulative to me and probably is with a confused and hurt child. He has said plenty of terrible stuff about Tamra in the press (and she has certainly said her share about him as well). Since he is on record as having lied under oath to make Tamra look bad, I think it is fair to assume this is his character. He can feel however he wants to feel about Tamra and the show, but I think it is beyond shitty for him to not do everything in his control to make sure that Sidney has a relationship with her mother. He worked hard to stop their joint counseling, which I never understood. As Tamra has said, if she is such a shitty mom, why does he drop the younger ones off at her house for weeks at a time while he goes on vacation? If he thinks she is harmful or dangerous, surely he wouldn't do that. 

All good points.

However, I still don't think a 15 year-old kid, whose been estranged from her mom for a couple of years now, needs to take responsibility for their parents dysfunction and her choice to be with her dad.  If the other kids see Tamra, then how much poisoning and alientation can he possibly be doing?  Maybe Sidney is just a kid who is perceptive and finds her mother too toxic to have a relationship with.  

It's been ages since I watched the years when Simon was on the show.. All I remember from him was that he didn't like Tamra's shenanigans -- the partying all the time, the dressing sleazy.  I got the sense that he married someone who changed into something else when she got on the show.  And he didn't want to give Ryan the free ride she was content in giving and she didn't like him actually providing that structure.  So Simon being "controlling" to me just seemed like someone that didn't like the trainwreck he was watching and wanted to reign it in.  I mean, who wouldn't be appalled, embarrassed, disgusted by that behavior?  

[sasha206]

39 minutes ago, tumamita said:

Kelly needs to take a long look in the mirror before calling anyone else a drunk... what a hypocrite!

Kelly is just so completely stupid that she truly thinks gaslighting her husband on this show will finally get her the divorce and big money she wanted years ago! And while her husband does seem creepy, he looks victimized by her on this show.  On the show she comments that he's a drunk he didn't appear to be drunk. Her being left at Costco story was so ridiculously petty.  She gets a drink and hot dog, he probably does what normal people do and walk the aisles and she's calling uber.  That's weird.  

[sasha206]

19 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

This is from Heather's blog...."I don't blame Tamra for her reaction, the catalyst was Kelly and this was what, the FOURTH time I've been around her in public and witnessed some kind of outrageous behavior" So, I think her reaction to Kelly was more so because Kelly keeps ruining group things and going into the store was something Heather wanted to do to calm herself/the others down and once again, Kelly ruined it. But, I do agree to disagree.

Well, we saw a snippet of Kelly actually telling Tamra about this and I suspect she also named the woman on camera then. So.....there should be video evidence of Kelly naming her. LOL

I think the Heather we see/hear on the show is really who she is in real life. Her behavior has been pretty consistent since her second season. 

I have a love/hate thing with Heather.  On one hand, she seems like she is a good sport despite her fancy-pantness.  Even though she seems like she's in a different stratosphere in terms of wealth and class, she can let her hair down and have a good time with them.  

On the other hand, the wanting-Terry- to- stop- working- so- much act wears thin when she's spending incredible amounts of money on ice cube shapes and building another mausoleum.  

I thought she was flat out awful to Shannon during her first season and also towards Alexis.  I enjoyed watching her get so offended that Alexis and Gretchen were getting acting offers.  I think because she once was a legitimate actress and had some success that people remember her success that was probably what -- 20 years ago?  Now she's more famous as a RH and wife of Botched Dr.  And like Carole Radziwill, there are times when I feel like she wants the world to think this is a social experiment and she's way above the RH cast in terms of class, career, education.

[WireWrap]

9 minutes ago, steelcitysister said:

 

Right. That's not my question. My question is: if there is no evidence -- on video, on paper, via glottal clicks or interpretive dance -- no way to substantiate Tams' naming her on Twitter, what recourse would she -- a private citizen and not a Bravo employee -- have?

I understood that, what I was pointing out is that I believe Kelly did say her name on camera when she initially told Tamra but that Bravo didn't show the entire clip. There was no way for Tamra, or Kelly for that matter, to know what Bravo would air or not and that video evidence of Kelly naming her is out there in Bravo's unseen footage. LOL

9 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

All good points.

However, I still don't think a 15 year-old kid, whose been estranged from her mom for a couple of years now, needs to take responsibility for their parents dysfunction and her choice to be with her dad.  If the other kids see Tamra, then how much poisoning and alientation can he possibly be doing?  Maybe Sidney is just a kid who is perceptive and finds her mother too toxic to have a relationship with.  

It's been ages since I watched the years when Simon was on the show.. All I remember from him was that he didn't like Tamra's shenanigans -- the partying all the time, the dressing sleazy.  I got the sense that he married someone who changed into something else when she got on the show.  And he didn't want to give Ryan the free ride she was content in giving and she didn't like him actually providing that structure.  So Simon being "controlling" to me just seemed like someone that didn't like the trainwreck he was watching and wanted to reign it in.  I mean, who wouldn't be appalled, embarrassed, disgusted by that behavior?  

Simon married Tamra knowing who she was but expected her to change for him.....the manner/etiquette lessons are an example of this. Her wild side drew him to her and his stability drew her to him but there was never a meeting in the middle for either of them IMO.

As for him being the better parent because Sidney chose him, their son chose Tamra, with the youngest (daughter) being the only one that still sees both parents at this point, soooo using that as a measuring stick as to parenting ability, I think both Tamra and Simon are questionable parents at this point.

4 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

Kelly is just so completely stupid that she truly thinks gaslighting her husband on this show will finally get her the divorce and big money she wanted years ago! And while her husband does seem creepy, he looks victimized by her on this show.  On the show she comments that he's a drunk he didn't appear to be drunk. Her being left at Costco story was so ridiculously petty.  She gets a drink and hot dog, he probably does what normal people do and walk the aisles and she's calling uber.  That's weird.  

She left the store first in their car, leaving him to call Uber and she believes she is the victim! LOL

[ElDosEquis]

25 minutes ago, Giselle said:

But then how will burglars, robbers and thieves to the rich and famous know what's ripe for the taking?

That is funny and true.

I am waiting for the first case of bad news about a HW getting punked that way?

[sasha206]

4 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

I understood that, what I was pointing out is that I believe Kelly did say her name on camera when she initially told Tamra but that Bravo didn't show the entire clip. There was no way for Tamra, or Kelly for that matter, to know what Bravo would air or not and that video evidence of Kelly naming her is out there in Bravo's unseen footage. LOL

Simon married Tamra knowing who she was but expected her to change for him.....the manner/etiquette lessons are an example of this. Her wild side drew him to her and his stability drew her to him but there was never a meeting in the middle for either of them IMO.

As for him being the better parent because Sidney chose him, their son chose Tamra, with the youngest (daughter) being the only one that still sees both parents at this point, soooo using that as a measuring stick as to parenting ability, I think both Tamra and Simon are questionable parents at this point.

She left the store first in their car, leaving him to call Uber and she believes she is the victim! LOL

All good points again.  They're both pretty fucked.  Hopefully their kids will take the alt-Ryan path.

And thanks for the correction!  Wow, Kelly is such a fucking jackass!

[WireWrap]

3 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

I have a love/hate thing with Heather.  On one hand, she seems like she is a good sport despite her fancy-pantness.  Even though she seems like she's in a different stratosphere in terms of wealth and class, she can let her hair down and have a good time with them.  

On the other hand, the wanting-Terry- to- stop- working- so- much act wears thin when she's spending incredible amounts of money on ice cube shapes and building another mausoleum.  

I thought she was flat out awful to Shannon during her first season and also towards Alexis.  I enjoyed watching her get so offended that Alexis and Gretchen were getting acting offers.  I think because she once was a legitimate actress and had some success that people remember her success that was probably what -- 20 years ago?  Now she's more famous as a RH and wife of Botched Dr.  And like Carole Radziwill, there are times when I feel like she wants the world to think this is a social experiment and she's way above the RH cast in terms of class, career, education.

I like Heather and think she is funny for the most part but even she screws up time to time. I understood what she was saying to Terry about needing to cut back some, he had taken on yet again another project/TV show cutting into family time (Botched by Nature is filmed across the country, not in LA/Ca) when he didn't need to. I think it is Terry's need for the biggest/fanciest/showiest/most expensive whatever when it comes to the new house, not Heather. I think she enjoys it, without a doubt, but I also think she would be just as happy in a slightly smaller house if it meant more family time.

Heather's reaction to Alexis was more along the lines of being irritated that every time someone got something, Alexis had to one up them, every single time no matter what, even when they all knew she was lying. I do think she felt a bit jealous that Alexis/Gretchen were getting some gigs but she was as well, so I think that passed quickly.

Shannon's first season was a bad season for Heather but that was driven by Tamra and Vicki. I swear that those 2, T/V, made sure to keep Heather/Shannon from becoming friends on purpose. Tamra and Vicki made sure they each held the ear of their "friend" and spread lies/half truths about what the other was saying about them!