S03.E03: What Remains Is Bestial

[Tara Ariano]

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Cookie calls in a favor with Kitty, hoping that recording a new song with the mega superstar will force Jamal to overcome his inability to perform. Elsewhere, trouble strikes when things don't go as planned for Andre; Hakeem faces some competition from Gram for Tiana's attention; and Cookie's relationship with Angelo heats up.

[mtlchick]

Let that be the ONLY time I ever see Lucious/Terrance get...serviced on screen ever again.  I'm not sure what was the point of Anika's "turnabout is fair play" move though.

Oh Mariah.  I long for the day you show up in sweatpants and Old Navy flip flops.  (I did like her in Precious though.) 

 

Oh yay.  The first declaration of "war, Empire is mine bitch!" has been said.  Which will be temporarily resolved next week. 

[Primetimer]

Will the sight of Mariah Carey's many leotards break the Lyons out of their misery? (Spoiler: no.)

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[SimoneS]

Why is Lucious so evil? He just cannot help himself. I enjoyed Anika fighting back a bit.

I wanted Andre to smash his uncle in his face, but I was hopeful about the preview showing him with Vanessa.

Mariah Carey's dress was ridiculous, but I liked the duet with Jamal.

I was happy to see Frieda, but am so disappointed that she has thrown her life away.

Hakeem needs to grow the hell up. His possessiveness over Tiana is just stupid.

[wanderingstar]

"Aren't you supposed to be sedated - or dead?" That made me laugh out loud. The battle is on between Anika & Mother Walker.

The scene between Tariq and Andre at the end had a Shakespearean feel to me.

Lucious is such a damn snake. I'm glad Anika stood up to him. I'd love for her and Cookie to team up and take him down, but I know it'll never happen.

So great to see Freda again. I hope she and Jamal can eventually reunite. I love their friendship.

Kitty is a keeper.

Good episode, and next week looks really good too.

[Artsda]

Jamal's going to get addicted.

Loved Lucious's field trip with the boys.

I liked Tiana's new song, sounded very Rihanna. 

[Dee]

This show has really regained its mojo (not that it ever really lost it imo).

Whoever lit a fire underneath Terrence Howard should be thrown a parade. He's always been a stellar actor, and his diligent work has made Lucious an iconic character, but this season he's really leaning into all aspects of the Lyon patriarch and the show is 100% better for it.

Porsha trying to get people to recognize her was hilarious. Ta'Rhonda Jones is a real find.

Loved Jamal and Kitty together. Mariah looked and sounded gorgeous, and Jamal's lower register (unlike his falsetto) is where Jussie shines vocally.

Jamal's new man is gorgeous.

Freda's joy at Jamal visiting her was sweet, even if she inadvertantly trigged his PTSD. Their friendship was one of the most enduring aspects of last season, so hopefully they can genuinely reconnect later on, once Jamal's healed.

Trai is knocking it out of the park. The writers weren't kidding when they said Season 3 was Andre's season.

Shyne is insane. Nessa better run. Fast.

Morocco Omari is great addition to the show. Tariq can act as if he's morally superior to his family, but he's just as dirty as the rest of them.

Cookie and Angelo are cute. I wasn't all that enthused with Taye as a potential love interest for Cookie initially, but Taraji's beautifully modulated performances have been winning me over.  In the tradition of all Grand Soap Divas, Cookie should be married multiple times before the show ends, and from tonight's scenes it seems Angelo would be an interesting second husband for Cookie. Unfortunately, I doubt Lucious, or the writers, will allow that to happen.

I could watch Leah & Anika co-existing in the mansion all day. Anika proving what's good for the goose is equally as good for the gander was also amusing.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Dee

[Neurochick]

I don't usually like Lucious but I did like his trip with his sons and what he said to them.  A lot of truths there.

I also liked what Angelo said to Cookie and what Cookie said back to him.  Cookie thought Angelo sees himself as better than she; but what Angelo explained to Cookie was that there's another way for young black people, not just entertaining.

[marceline]

Hakeem getting all worked up over Tiana was ridiculous. Wasn't this little boy about to marry someone else a few months ago? Why is he acting like they just broke up?

I've got to admit that the non-stop misogyny in this show has become grating. It's one thing to have it come just from Lucious because it's a defining character trait but now it just seems to come from all sides. 

[ZaldamoWilder]

11 hours ago, mtlchick said:

Let that be the ONLY time I ever see Lucious/Terrance get...serviced on screen ever again.  I'm not sure what was the point of Anika's "turnabout is fair play" move though.

Oh Mariah.  I long for the day you show up in sweatpants and Old Navy flip flops.  (I did like her in Precious though.) 

 

Oh yay.  The first declaration of "war, Empire is mine bitch!" has been said.  Which will be temporarily resolved next week. 

Glad to see it's not just me.  My dude thinks I'm hating when I say things like this (about her).    That first peekabo Spanish Harlem onesie with the tittie wings?  Lol!!!  I'm over the whole thing.  We get it, you are fabulous, dripping in fabulosity and fabdom but any day now, and that day was like 5 years ago says me, it will start to look crazy.   The women she thinks she's competing with are literally 1/2 her age.   I couldn't even tell that she was playing a fictional character.

Kitty and Mama Lyon can go back and forth all day for my amusement.   Auntie Leslie is serving!

Ya'll are decent and kind and have heeded the word.   Ain't no way in ever you pop a cap off in mine on purpose and we back like peas and carrots.   Sorry, gunfire's kind of a relationship dealbreaker.

The writers need to have Cookie make her word her bond.  If she's done studying Luscious, dammit be done.   There's no need for him to know who she's got her new dress and smell good on for.   I might just be mad because I miss my Derek Luke or I think Taye's corny, can't tell which.

Andre:  "I'm a Wharton graduate, I will not fight fire with fire!"

me:

 

The most valuable thing I learned this episode is Xhibit's government name is Alvin.    It might help him to know if you trying to get a chick to sing maybe the throat is the wrong place to grab her. 

Hakeem needs to make a song about Karruche Tiana and maybe she'll come back.

[withanaich]

Hakeem is so damn ridiculous. Hasn't given a single thought to Laura since he sulked off in that "Just Married" car, doesn't think about his child unless he's mad because his daddy "stole" her (have we even seen him in the same room with the baby?), but all of a sudden we're supposed to believe he's this worked up about his ex? I buy that he stumbled over to her place drunk and whined and passed out, but this sudden sober jealousy is a bit much, even for him. And all Lucious can say when Hakeem is (rightfully) concerned that there's a dangerous maniac running around his company is that at least he's getting shit done? Why isn't Lucious concerned? Even if he doesn't care about people (and we know he doesn't), Shyne is a financial liability. He might be accomplishing things now, but he is going to be dangerous down the line. I really hope someone takes him out too. That's what eventually happens when you go around beating and choking everyone around you the second you get cranky.

Lucious was saying some things that made sense on the short bus, but it came off as ridiculous because it's ... you know ... Lucious. He is not in a position to be talking about anybody being "woke." The problem with his sons is not that they're gay, bipolar and spoiled (well, Hakeem is terribly spoiled), but it's not that they've forgotten that they're black either. It's that Lucious is a TERRRRRIBLE father. I laughed out loud when Hakeem called him "the original black man." When Hakeem knows you sound ridiculous, you know you need to work on yourself.

On a positive note, Mariah Carey's duet with Jamal was probably the first time a song on this show didn't crack me up or make me want to hit the mute button. I see they let her bring her own wardrobe to the set, even though she could barely move around in it. I thought that kid's reaction to Cookie and Lucious arguing over him was pretty realistic. He might be headed for MIT, but he's still just a dopey kid, inclined to let the grown-ups figure things out. Also, Cookie was making a lot of sense and was very sweet with him (unlike Lucious, who always comes off as slightly pervy when he's talking to young people), and I like that she made that deal with him because no, we really don't need another rapper. (Also, if he does really well at MIT, he might be able to buy Empire, not to mention his own flashy car, down the road.)

I also think Grandma Lyon doddering around the mansion with knives is ludicrous (especially given Lucious' former [?] fear of her), but I do like seeing her and Anika interacting. Anika tells it like it is. Yes, Grandma Lyon is dangerous and should not have free run of the house. Yes, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. And yes, Lucious is the one who needs HER, so he should stop treating her like he's the one doing HER a favor. (It was probably dumb to reveal her vulnerability by telling him why she went along with the plan, though.)

And, as always, Portia is a delight. Funny and used in small doses, so that you miss her when she's not around. 

[Cabarb]

God, I just love this show so so much. There isn't a single weak link (except for the minor misstep with the whole Hakeem/Tiana/Gram thing).   I know Terrance Howard isn't a great guy and Lucious is a total asshole, but I can't help myself. I love watching him.  He brings everything he's got and it shows.  Mariah, never change.  The leotard during the studio session doesn't even seem strange to me.  Cookie's face watching Jamal finally perform was pure perfection and I know the big fall is coming with the pill addiction for Jamal.  But Andre is the shining star for me so far this season!

[AV8n]

Anika put the slogan "What can brown do for you?" in a whole new light. Should've known she wasn't that interested in hitting 10M streams!

Andre, don't let being a Wharton grad keep you from fighting. If DJT can't sully their rep then neither can you.

Trying to imagine Dave Seville yelling "Xzibiiiiit!".

[Dee]

I loved the small touch of Andre deliberately flipping his hoodie up before interacting with the reporters.

Trai is really turning in stellar work this season.

[Dakisela]

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Mariah hitting that impossibly high note during the duet with Jamal was pretty spectacular.

[tennisgurl]

Poor Andre. He always has it tough, but this season is just beating the poor guy into the ground. Trai is just doing amazing work this season. I mean, everyone is great as always, but its great to see Trai get the spotlight. 

This has been a great season, and it seems like the show has really gotten back on track. Not that last season was bad or anything, but it seemed to lose a lot of the fire it had in season 1. 

The speech Lucious gave the guys wasn't really a bad speech, and he made some good points, but its all kind of undercut by the fact that Lucious is THE WORST. Hes a terrible father, husband, and all around human being, and I am pretty positive that all his sons issues stem from the fact that he`s an abusive asshole. I do feel bad for the guy sometimes, his life really did suck growing up, but that does not change the fact that his sucks as a parent and as a person. 

I thought Angelo was kind of smug last episode, but I liked him here, and I like the idea of him and Cookie. He can be her second chance at being with a good guy. Probably not permanently, but it would be nice to watch for a bit. He makes some good points. Not that aspiring to be a rapper or an athlete is a bad thing, but young black kids should see their options. I`m glad that MIT kid is still looking to his bright future, but I am very concerned for him. Young black teen with big dreams in a series that is focusing on police brutality against young black men? Do not like his odds. 

[Pristine]

5 hours ago, withanaich said:

Mariah Carey's duet with Jamal was probably the first time a song on this show didn't crack me up or make me want to hit the mute button. I see they let her bring her own wardrobe to the set, even though she could barely move around in it.

Exactly what I was thinking as she went back, to be lifted onto the stage.

[GreekGeek]

I agree with all the praise for Trai Byers and am really into Andre's storyline. He's heading for a major psychotic episode. I wonder if he really wants to stop seeing Rhonda's ghost because it will be the end of his last link with her.

Nice that Jamal is singing again, but he was popping so many pills that I wondered if he could get through his duet without collapsing. Can someone recall the significance of the "Black and White Album" and why Jamal doesn't want it released?

[Drumpf1737]

[luckyroll3]

7 hours ago, AV8n said:

Anika put the slogan "What can brown do for you?" in a whole new light. Should've known she wasn't that interested in hitting 10M streams!

I'm still laughing at how old dude popped up from under the table so excited like "yeah, I just did that" towards Lucious, like he was about to get a round of applause!

Anika needs to watch out for Grandma Leah.  I hope she's locking her bedroom door at night.  But it's great to see them square off against each other!

 

1 hour ago, GreekGeek said:

Nice that Jamal is singing again, but he was popping so many pills that I wondered if he could get through his duet without collapsing. Can someone recall the significance of the "Black and White Album" and why Jamal doesn't want it released?

I don't remember exactly, but I think it had something to do with him getting away from his parents' sound and creating his own.  This was championed by the closeted producer he was banging last season. 

 

4 hours ago, Pristine said:

Exactly what I was thinking as she went back, to be lifted onto the stage.

 

57 minutes ago, Drumpf1737 said:

I love and will always be here for Mariah's ridiculousness!  The outfits, having one side of her face be the primary focus of any camera, walking around with her own lighting rigs (which I'm sure she had a lengthy conversation about with the show's light techs), etc.  It's all wonderful and makes me smile with glee.  Just last week, I mentioned her Cribs episode (in the top 3 with Redman's and Ol' Dirty Bastard's/WuTang's) to someone who had no idea what I was talking about and tried to convince them it is a must see because the entire thing is gold.  I hope she's in more episodes (and I also can't wait for reality show in December!). 

[Dee]

3 hours ago, GreekGeek said:

Can someone recall the significance of the "Black and White Album" and why Jamal doesn't want it released?

The Black & White album was Jamal's pet project, produced by Lucious & Cookie, with contributions from Freda and Derek.

He initially had the idea after Pepsi selected his song, Ready To Go, (which contained contributions from both of his parents) as their brand's official anthem.

Jamal chose to shelve the album following an intense fight he had with his dad, that had him ready to leave Empire altogether, just before he was shot at the ASA's.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Dee

[withanaich]

And this is why I have a hard time taking Jamal seriously, either, at least sometimes. For all his talk about how Lucious lets family squabbles interfere with the music (and business), Jamal is doing the same thing. He wants his father to take him seriously and treat him like an adult without pulling all these power plays (which is a fair point), but he wouldn't be able to pout and say "No, I don't want to do my job right now because you're mean" if his employers weren't Mommy and Daddy. Even though their family drama makes doing his job difficult sometimes, he also has a lot of (ridiculous, unrealistic) leeway. I get why he can't perform right now for health reasons, and of course if Lucious weren't an ass he would be understanding of that, but there is no legitimate reason why they should be taking Jamal's pouting about not releasing the album seriously. Except that he's their son, so apparently they're supposed to let him screw around with the bottom line. 

 

Lucious was well within his rights to release the album, because I'm sure in the real world when you're running a company that isn't Empire, there are contracts and whatnot, and people can't just say "I don't wanna" without some serious legal repercussions. But then, of course, he's Lucious so he can't just say "Jamal, grow the hell up, you literally signed on for this so yes, we're releasing the damn album a bunch of people worked so hard to help you make." Because he's Lucious, he has to agree to one thing with Jamal, and then go behind his back and do whatever he wants anyway. Which is what makes him such a snake.

[Grace19]

Oh my Good, the Empire I love is back! I love everything about this season except for Cookie's new boo. 
I am so glad that they are focusing on Andre this season, the actor is the best actor with Taraji and Howard, and I am loving his story line, Andre my love, hang in there.
for the first time in a while I love Jamal's love interest, He is so sexy and I love that he was in the military, I am already interested in seeing his and Jamal dynamic play out.
My boo Hakeem is crazy and spoiled as always and I am loving all his songs this year, he is really coming hard this season. I love his chemistry with the new girl, but I want them to be just friends. 
Tiana is looking beautiful as always, but I didn't like her song. I love Tiana but they keep bring girls that can out-sing her, Veronica, Hakeem's ex-fiancée (can't remember her name) and now the new girl. But I still want her and Hakeem back together and I wish she would develop a friendship with the new girl.
Luscious, is still as crazy as ever and I still love to hate him.
I love luscious and Cookie's back story.
I am enjoying Anika and luscious' mother.
Oh, and I miss Rhonda, but I understand why Anika had to live, we get more drama with her.
Welcome back empire.
 

[bichonblitz]

Lucius mentioned his ALS disappearing. So how exactly does that happen?  That was a sloppy storyline they decided not to pursue. 

Lucius has no business being jealous of anybody Cookie is interested in.  She was in prison for 17 yrs and he didn't bother to visit or give her the time of day, so I'm sick of this Lucius and Cookie are meant to be soul mates story.  

Mariah Carey and her craziness can do no wrong! I can't imagine what a demanding Diva she must be behind the scenes, though.

[Dee]

Lucious never had ALS. It was a misdiagnosis by his doctor.

He actually has Myasthenia gravis, a still serious but treatable, chronic disease that has symptoms similar to ALS.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Dee

[bichonblitz]

1 hour ago, Dee said:

Lucious never had ALS. It was a misdiagnosis by his doctor.

He actually has Myasthenia gravis, a still serious but treatable, chronic disease that has symptoms similar to ALS.

Thanks for clearing that up. He did say ALS last night. 

[Dee]

No problem.

Lucious joke about his ALS misdiagnosis was him making light of Jamal's PTSD, not Terrence, the actor, misspeaking.

[Empress1]

I completely forgot that the initial premise of this show was to figure out which one of the sons would be heir to the throne since Lucious was dying. Totally 100% forgot that Lucious was ever ill. He hasn't had any symptoms of any kind since he found out he didn't have it. Myasthenia gravis has symptoms that haven't been depicted at all on screen.

Trai Byers really is the standout this season.

On 10/6/2016 at 9:43 AM, ZaldamoWilder said:

Andre:  "I'm a Wharton graduate, I will not fight fire with fire!"

me:

 

The most valuable thing I learned this episode is Xhibit's government name is Alvin.    It might help him to know if you trying to get a chick to sing maybe the throat is the wrong place to grab her. 

I was like, "A Wharton grad would hire ALL THE LAWYERS, especially after they increased the charges."

I didn't know Xzibit's government name either! Something about his name being Alvin made me laugh.

I did like Cookie shutting down the notion that Andre giving the cops attitude in any way justified what they did to him. I cracked up at Mariah's outfits too because if I had a long recording session scheduled, I'd rock jeans and a t-shirt unless it was being filmed. And then she was in there with a bodysuit and no pants on and I was like, "Mimi, do you."

Lucious is kind of like Frank on Shameless to me, except the kids on Shameless are through with Frank at this point (which is why William H. Macy should leave the show, but a check is a check and I can't knock his hustle). He's so insidious that I'm like, why WOULDN'T they turn on him? The term "father" is earned; what has he done to earn it? There's a laundry list of stuff he's done that would get him kicked out of my life, money or not.

[Dee]

The myasthenia gravis took a toll on Lucious when Roxanne denied the Lyon patriarch access to his medication last season.

Thirsty, ever resourceful, circumvented the unyielding ADA & got Lucious his medication.

Since then, he's been handling his condition fine, apparently.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Dee

[withanaich]

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I cracked up at Mariah's outfits too because if I had a long recording session scheduled, I'd rock jeans and a t-shirt unless it was being filmed. And then she was in there with a bodysuit and no pants on and I was like, "Mimi, do you."

 

I think they were filming it, though. It was supposed to be Jamal's compromise with Lucious, that he didn't want to perform in front of an audience, but he would go into the studio and they could get it on camera. There were at least two cameramen stationed in the outer room with the family, which is hilarious because A) shouldn't they have been inside with the performers and B) weren't they picking up Lucious and Cookie sniping at each other?

So I get Mimi (or whatever her name is supposed to be on the show) wanting to look nice for the cameras, but who (else but her) would immediately think to squeeze into a bodysuit and (I'm sure) stilettos for a recording session? I almost want her to stick around, as needless as that would be, just to see what she rocks to a board meeting or funeral or something like that.

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Since then, he's been handling his condition fine, apparently.

I think we were supposed to think he was having symptoms again in this episode, but no, it was just a BJ. Which means the writers haven't forgotten he's supposed to have a serious (if treatable) condition, they just don't feel like being bothered. 

Edited October 7, 2016 by withanaich

[thuganomics85]

The scene with Lucious and the Lyon sons in the van I think help explains why I do find him fascinating to watch, despite being one of the scummiest characters out there.  Every now and then, there is a lot of truth to what he is saying and I do think in his own bizarre twisted way, he actually does want to help his family succeed.  But he always undercuts whatever points he has by going at it the most dickish way possible.  He's just someone who has no tact, no filter, and some messed up views (he still thinks being bipolar or being gay makes you "less"), that almost null whatever point he has.  But I like that he can be right on some levels, but he's just his own worst enemy a lot of times.

Of course, he still is the worst, like getting a blowjob from someone else despite being "married", but when Anika does it with someone else, he flips his shit.  Oh, Lucious, you big old hypocrite.  Unless it was because she did it in your office, but I suspect he would have been pissed no matter where it was.  Anika standing up to him is fun, although she better be careful.  Not necessarily over him, but Grandma Leah.  I can so see her trying to knife Anika.  Leslie Uggams continues to be perfect in the role.

Oh, shit!  Andre is suddenly getting trumped up charges, and it's all because Tariq is trying to use it to make him flip on Lucious!  Ice cold, Tariq! Poor Andre is being set-up to be put through the ringer this season.  At least Trai Byers is getting a lot of good material so far.

Hakeem, you big dumbass!  You and Tiana have been over for some time now.  She's not your property.  Sure, I can understand the diss track, since that other rapper did mock you, but could you be more of a petulant child?  Classic Hakeem!

Jamal finally sings a song (in the studio) and even sees Freda, but is now popping pills like candy, which is not a good sign to say the least.

Cookie holding strong and facing off against Lucious is welcomed, although I'm still kind of bored with Angelo.  He's just your basic Taye Diggs character.  Nothing against him, but he seems to play certain type of characters.

Speaking of which, I know she had another name, but Mariah Carey was just Mariah Carey to me, through the entire arc.

Xzbit is either going to end up killing someone, or someone is going to end up killing him in order to stop him from killing someone.  The man's got anger issues!

[Dee]

30 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

The scene with Lucious and the Lyon sons in the van I think help explains why I do find him fascinating to watch, despite being one of the scummiest characters out there.  Every now and then, there is a lot of truth to what he is saying and I do think in his own bizarre twisted way, he actually does want to help his family succeed.  But he always undercuts whatever points he has by going at it the most dickish way possible.  He's just someone who has no tact, no filter, and some messed up views (he still thinks being bipolar or being gay makes you "less"), that almost null whatever point he has.  But I like that he can be right on some levels, but he's just his own worst enemy a lot of times.

Lucious issue with Andre & Jamal seems to reside in what he views as their need to prioritize dealing with their trauma over getting tasks accomplished.

As cliche as it might be, Lucious, is from a different era.

He's never processed any of the deep trauma that came from the insanity surrounding his own upbringing, yet he built himself into an American success story. So, in turn, he views his sons inability to push through their issues, as he did, as a sign of weakness. Since he's never developed the tools to be a nurturing parent, he can't relate to his kids as people so he resorted to using his vast fortune to protect them and "fix" their issues.

Andre has a debilitating manic episode? He receives the best care available, but Lucious is noticeably absent during family therapy sessions. Jamal is closeted & releasing an album? He gets a lavender marriage to an opportunistic backup singer but Lucious staunchly won't acknowledge his son's potential as a solo star. Hakeem has a newborn with his scheming ex-fiancee? He gets free reign to be a father to Bella, but Lucious has his own name etched on Bella's birth certificate.

You're totally right thuganomics. Lucious is an ass, bordering at times on the devil incarnate, but for someone who's never had any parental role models or anything remotely resembling a functional family unit, he's managed to keep his family (relatively) whole which is/was a miraculous accomplishment by any measure.

[Neurochick]

1 hour ago, Dee said:

He's never processed any of the deep trauma that came from the insanity surrounding his own upbringing, yet he built himself into an American success story. So, in turn, he views his sons inability to push through their issues, as he did, as a sign of weakness. Since he's never developed the tools to be a nurturing parent, he can't relate to his kids as people so he resorted to using his vast fortune to protect them and "fix" their issues.

Lucious is an "either or" type of person.  He probably feels that either you sit in therapy for years and do nothing but cry, or you build yourself an Empire.  And the question is, can you do both?  

[darkestboy]

I was bored with this episode. Seeing Andre set up for a crime he didn't commit because Tariq is desperate to get Lucious just annoyed me a little.

Jamal, loved his duet with Kitty (Mariah Carey was serviceable) but his story isn't compelling me much either.

Hakeem acted like a spoiled brat and then stole Tiana's track just because. I did like him standing up for Nessa with Shyne though.

Lucious's main aim in this one just seemed to be pissing people off through out. Cookie declaring war on him was nice and was Anika outsmarting him but other than that, this was pretty dull, 6/10