S01.E05: Nobody Beats the Biebs

[xaxat]

You just knew things were going to well for Earn.

Was the shooting range scene a direct answer to the previous two episodes? Where a man was shot (and apparently killed) followed by the dog story. I think we were intended to assume that the dog was going to used for fighting and I admit that I had more sympathy for the potential fate of the dog than the guy who got shot.

I thought the Paper Boi/Biebs thing went on too long, 

[BingeyKohan]

The Bieb was odd (partially because I've seen Kate McKinnon do him for so long on SNL I didn't really need the mannerisms when he was performing his new single)...but it was a fascinating way to depict him. I'm still digging whatever mythology this show is building. The dog breed in the shooting target was the same as the dog Darius saw in the opening scene (before the shooting), causing him to mention deja vu. Also the same breed as the dog following the strange guy from the bus Earn encountered. Jane Adams was great, love her casting here. I'm so intrigued to see where this is all going but also appreciate the fact you can read so much frustration and sadness into the events even just at face value.

[Cotypubby]

I didn't get the whole Justin Bieber thing. Why was that guy called Justin Bieber? Was the dog target thing supposed to make sense?

I enjoyed the first few episodes, but I'm almost about to bail after this one.

[BingeyKohan]

5 minutes ago, Cotypubby said:

I didn't get the whole Justin Bieber thing. Why was that guy called Justin Bieber? Was the dog target thing supposed to make sense?

I enjoyed the first few episodes, but I'm almost about to bail after this one.

My take was it WAS Justin Bieber - part of the ep's commentary on role-playing, committing to the lane you've chosen. (You could argue a good deal of Bieber's career is based in cultural appropriation; the show said you want to be black? Poof, you are.) I think the dog thing worked either way you saw it - continuing the dog mythology, which seems largely centered around Darius and I trust is building to a pay-off, or just to highlight how ridiculous it is to say you can't shoot at the shape of a dog but you can at the shape of a man, particularly when the target designer went out of his way to depict racially charged imagery. (I can remember when shooting targets depicting bin laden were popular.)

[withanaich]

Didn't love this episode that much as the previous ones. Kind of ... I don't know, uneven? Maybe a little too surreal? Darius, Earn and Paperboi seemed like they were all on different shows.

The bits that reminded me of why I do like this show were the scene with the guy freaking out because Darius shooting a dog target was too messed up for him to handle (but people shooting human targets somehow isn't) and might scare his kids (!) at a shooting range (!), followed by the proprietor marching Darius out at gunpoint. The awful yet believable ridiculousness of that encounter reminded me of the jail scene, where everyone reacted to the mentally ill guy like he was putting on a show for their amusement ... until the cops got mad and beat the shit out of him. I also thought it was interesting how everyone reacted differently to Paperboi and Justin Bieber (the point being that celebrity worship and racism allow certain people to get away with shitty behavior but not others), though I didn't think the reporter needed to spell it out for us like that.

But that song Justin Bieber sang at the end was hilarious, and exactly what a lot of popular music sounds like now. 

[Phishbulb]

At one point Glover said that in making Atlanta he wanted to try to make "Twin Peaks with rappers", and in this episode I could definitely sense a David Lynch influence. Charlie Kaufman-esque at times too with how surreal it was. Like Lynch's and Kaufman's movies, it had that weird dreamlike quality where things that clearly don't make sense are presented with a straight face and you accept everything as normal as if you were having a dream. Like Justin Bieber being depicted as a black kid, or just the whole plotline with Jane Adams in general. That was kind of a nightmare scenario, being stuck in this situation with someone who insists that they know you when it should be clear you're not the person they know. It reminded me a lot of Lynch's movies like "Mulholland Drive" and "Lost Highway" (I haven't seen much of Twin Peaks, but I assume it was like that too). The whole episode just had an uncomfortable, nightmare-like feel. Very odd but enjoyable episode.

[Dee]

I howled at Alfred tackling Bieber.

[PamelaMaeSnap]

I confess I was sooooooo confused by this ... whether that was actually supposed to "be" Justin Bieber or another rapper who went by the name of Justin Bieber or ... well, what.  And I'd forgotten the early episode with the dog Darius kept seeing (so that at least then made sense I think in that the dog was sort of his psychic nemesis).

So, hopefully someone can clear this up for me ... in that very early episode where the guy gets shot in the parking lot confrontation ... he didn't die, did he? Or did he? Is it the sort of thing where it becomes one of those epic stories that is constantly exaggerated in the retelling (you're the guy that blew the guy's head off, or whatever they said to Paper Boi this episode)? If he'd killed him, would they have gotten out of jail that quickly with no trial? We saw the gun go off but from far enough away that my guess later was that he was shot but maybe it only grazed him.

Finally, LOVED the Jaleel White cameo.

[BingeyKohan]

1 hour ago, PamelaMaeSnap said:

I confess I was sooooooo confused by this ... whether that was actually supposed to "be" Justin Bieber or another rapper who went by the name of Justin Bieber or ... well, what.  And I'd forgotten the early episode with the dog Darius kept seeing (so that at least then made sense I think in that the dog was sort of his psychic nemesis).

So, hopefully someone can clear this up for me ... in that very early episode where the guy gets shot in the parking lot confrontation ... he didn't die, did he? Or did he? Is it the sort of thing where it becomes one of those epic stories that is constantly exaggerated in the retelling (you're the guy that blew the guy's head off, or whatever they said to Paper Boi this episode)? If he'd killed him, would they have gotten out of jail that quickly with no trial? We saw the gun go off but from far enough away that my guess later was that he was shot but maybe it only grazed him.

Finally, LOVED the Jaleel White cameo.

Yes! For all the sh*t we (well I) gave UnReal for being ambiguous about a shooting I feel the same standard should perhaps apply here? Although I can't believe PB is actually a killer.

[Irlandesa]

I didn't enjoy this episode.  The only things I liked was the whole absurd discussion about whether or not a dog picture could be used in target practice.  And Jane Adams because Jane Adams is great.  But nothing much else held together. 

[Morgalisa]

PamelaMaeSnap, I completely missed Jaleel White. What scene was he in?

I agree that Justin Bieber character was a commentary on Justin's cultural appropriation. And how he gets away with so much crap and gives a scripted insincere apology and his career goes on.

[Dee]

Jaleel White was one of the members (along with Lloyd and Zane) of the celebrity basketball team.

[LJonEarth]

39 minutes ago, Morgalisa said:

PamelaMaeSnap, I completely missed Jaleel White. What scene was he in?

I agree that Justin Bieber character was a commentary on Justin's cultural appropriation. And how he gets away with so much crap and gives a scripted insincere apology and his career goes on.

And how his behavior gets blamed on the bad influence of his rapper buddies.

"Play your part" continues what everyone's been trying to push Alfred to be in each episode, the scary, cold-blooded, black man, gangster feuding with everyone.

I enjoyed this episode. It very much reminded me of some of the more surreal episodes of Louie, different but still great.

[withanaich]

I have to think that nobody would have gotten out of jail, bail or not, if they'd actually murdered someone. The whole "you blew somebody's head off" is just another example of celebrity culture distorting the truth. At some point the guy who got "killed" will probably show up with a scratch on his leg or something where the bullet nicked him.

Quote

I agree that Justin Bieber character was a commentary on Justin's cultural appropriation. And how he gets away with so much crap and gives a scripted insincere apology and his career goes on.

Agreed, though I have to admit I was confused at first too, because I know there are performers who straight-up use another famous person's name as their stage moniker. "Is he supposed to be Justin Bieber, or is he using the name Justin Bieber, or is he pretending to be Justin Bieber and everyone's playing along or what?" Pretty sure he's literally supposed to be the Biebs. That's the joke. Well ... that, and his "music," and the way everyone reacts to him. He pissed in the floor! In a crowded hallway! And everyone was just like, "Oh, you scamp." When he was at the press conference and "casually" revealed the word "REAL" on his hat and everyone gasped, I about died.

[Deanie87]

12 hours ago, LJonEarth said:

And how his behavior gets blamed on the bad influence of his rapper buddies.

"Play your part" continues what everyone's been trying to push Alfred to be in each episode, the scary, cold-blooded, black man, gangster feuding with everyone.

I enjoyed this episode. It very much reminded me of some of the more surreal episodes of Louie, different but still great.

And what I liked about this is that it the commentary is mult-layered because Alfred DID actually shoot somebody and does deal drugs, so he himself plays into the stereotype as well.

I liked this episode more than last week's.  The "Justin Bieber" stuff was hilarious and I liked that I didn't really know if it was supposed to really be Justin Bieber or somebody calling themselves "Justin Bieber."  And I"m not gonna lie, I was singing that song all the next day, "Girl, if I do something, forget about it..."

[JenE4]

This show is like a strange dream at times: I was playing basketball with Paper Boi, Urkel, and a black Justin Bieber...

i had forgotten about the mysterious dog, so that makes sense why Darius feels like he might need to protect himself from the dog--just in case. I thought it was an interesting take #1 on racism. Although we did see him hiding a gun in the cereal in episode 1, It's likely he's never shot a gun before--he didn't do very well with it. It's perfectly fine for the white folks to shoot racist depictions, implying a Mexican person is more lowly than a dog! But then when the other minorities in the place backed him up predicting an impending revolution, Darius literally held up his hands and said he's not about that. I thought it was a nod to Black Lives Matter. The movement isn't trying to "take over America" from white people. Just treat everyone equally starting with a very low bar of not shooting an unarmed black man. That's really not asking for much to NOT shoot a person!!!

Take on racism #2 is the reporter assuming Al is a "gangsta" and telling him he has his role to play as the angry black man. Really?!?

And #3 is that agent assuming Earn is Lorenzo with the more subtle implication that all black men look alike. Ok, I might be pushing that one because I'm terrible with faces/names, too, so maybe it was just supposed to be a funny way to get Earn to meet those other two agents.

Edited September 30, 2016 by JenE4

[Amethyst]

On 9/28/2016 at 10:48 AM, withanaich said:

Didn't love this episode that much as the previous ones. Kind of ... I don't know, uneven? Maybe a little too surreal? Darius, Earn and Paperboi seemed like they were all on different shows.

Same here.  I know about the Twin Peaks influence, but since I never watched that show, the weird humor in Atlanta is lost on me sometimes, and I suspect the same for other viewers.  

Still, it was a good episode.  Nicely done on the Justin Bieber thing.  Darius' encounter at the gun range was hilarious.

[withanaich]

Quote

And #3 is that agent assuming Earn is Lorenzo with the more subtle implication that all black men look alike. Ok, I might be pushing that one because I'm terrible with faces/names, too, so maybe it was just supposed to be a funny way to get Earn to meet those other two agents.

I'm terrible with faces too, so I assumed her mistake was just that simple. But seeing other people's take on that encounter, I think it really might be another multilayered bit of comedy/social commentary. And then when she said he had a "sharecropper smile?" HOLY SHIT. I think it's very interesting that Earn doesn't react when people are throwing this racist shit at him, and I don't necessarily think it means that he's passive (although he sometimes is, very much so). I think it is, unfortunately, how a lot of minorities choose to deal with those kind of situations, either because they're tired of dealing with it, they don't feel like they're in a position to call people out, or it's just not worth it in that time and place.

That was an awkward situation and he was somewhere he wasn't supposed to be, where he didn't want to make a scene and draw attention to himself. (Just like he didn't want to call out the guy at the radio station for saying n****er, because A) he needed to first confirm that the guy was treating him differently [which is why he tested him by having him retell the story] and B) well, he decided it wasn't worth it because he needed something from him.) Even though said "scene" would be the fault of the agent's mistake/racial blindness, Earn would have been blamed for it (just like Darius got blamed for the busybody starting an argument at the shooting range).

[ethalfrida]

No, you are right. That was a commentary on the "they all look alike" thing. It happens not just to African Americans but especially Asians, at least I'd heard it more times than I care to remember. 

I took my son and brother (who are 18 months apart in age) out for ice cream one day when they were around 5 and 7. A little old white lady comes up with the old "kitchee coo, aren't they cute. Are they twins?" My son was a deep chocolate little tyke and my brother, taller, skinner Will Smith looking little dude. They looked at her as if she was nuts and I didn't even have to explain anything. Here is a pic of the boys a few years later. They hadn't changed, just a little taller.

 

Edited September 30, 2016 by ethalfrida
to explain photo

[Negritude]

This was my favorite episode so far. Another cameo was the singer Lloyd who had some lines with Paper Boi. I recognized a couple of other people but I can't remember the names. I loved the shooting range scene, especially when the Arab guys came up talking about revenge and Darius was like whoa, whoa! Lol. I couldn'tget into the 1st 2 episodes, but I just binged the last 3 and I'm digging it.

[Rorysmom]

Long-time lurker, both here an TWoP. Hi, all! Created an account just to talk about this awesome show. I agree with all the observations above. I also think that the blindside racist run-ins, the casual situations that turn to slighting him in some way because of his race, are why Earn probably left school. Little slights from people who, at first, seem cool/accepting, but show you what they really think of you as they get more familiar or angry with you. Wears on you. Disillusions you.

Edited October 1, 2016 by Rorysmom

[Jade Foxx]

On 10/1/2016 at 10:16 AM, Rorysmom said:

Long-time lurker, both here an TWoP. Hi, all! Created an account just to talk about this awesome show. I agree with all the observations above. I also think that the blindside racist run-ins, the casual situations that turn to slighting him in some way because of his race, are why Earn probably left school. Little slights from people who, at first, seem cool/accepting, but show you what they really think of you as they get more familiar or angry with you. Wears on you. Disillusions you.

And a different take is, I feel Earn/Glover thinks that because he's not the stereotypical "scary black boogie man," that he should be treated differently, more special than the Paper Boi's and Darius' of the world. 

It seems someone didn't give him the memo that, it doesn't matter how YOU see you, many times it's how SOCIETY sees you. He keeps getting his feelings hurt or seemingly stunned when faced by racist behavior. Did he and his parents not have The Talk?

The sheer irony of it all, is that Earn portraying THE ULTIMATE stereotype in that he's unemployed, recently jailed, has a child with a woman he's not married to, refuses to work, and shirks his parental responsibilities. 

Darius is a much more profound and interesting character than Earn, with his unique view of the world, out of the box and forward thinking qualities - he could be the one working for Google, Vice, or some other creative marketing or ad enterprise. 

[Deanie87]

8 hours ago, Jade Foxx said:

And a different take is, I feel Earn/Glover thinks that because he's not the stereotypical "scary black boogie man," that he should be treated differently, more special than the Paper Boi's and Darius' of the world. 

It seems someone didn't give him the memo that, it doesn't matter how YOU see you, many times it's how SOCIETY sees you. He keeps getting his feelings hurt or seemingly stunned when faced by racist behavior. Did he and his parents not have The Talk?

The sheer irony of it all, is that Earn portraying THE ULTIMATE stereotype in that he's unemployed, recently jailed, has a child with a woman he's not married to, refuses to work, and shirks his parental responsibilities. 

Darius is a much more profound and interesting character than Earn, with his unique view of the world, out of the box and forward thinking qualities - he could be the one working for Google, Vice, or some other creative marketing or ad enterprise. 

This is one of the aspects that I find so interesting with this show, and also maybe...unsettling?  I'm not sure if that's the right word, but I kind of like the ambiguity of what it is that Glover is trying to say with this.  Or maybe not say.  Similarly that Paper Boi was offended by the reporter's remarks that he "play the role," and yet he did shoot someone and does deal drugs, or Van's friend last night and her lifestyle.  Its almost like they can't help but fall into some kind of stereotype, but at the same time are much more than that.  Or ARE they???? LOL!

I don't think this is a bad thing at all.  In fact, I can't think of many other "comedies" that really "unsettle" me this much or make me think about the characters and what they represent as much as this show.  And still make me laugh a lot.

[withanaich]

Quote

It seems someone didn't give him the memo that, it doesn't matter how YOU see you, many times it's how SOCIETY sees you. He keeps getting his feelings hurt or seemingly stunned when faced by racist behavior. Did he and his parents not have The Talk?

I read it a bit differently, in that I think Earn is stunned when people are racist not because he's thinking "Did you just say that to me? But I'm the cool, special black guy!" but because he's thinking something more like, "Did you just say that to me? That terrible, fucked-up thing? WTF is wrong with you?" I could be wrong, but his reaction reads more like exhausted shock than hurt feelings. I really don't think he's one of those sheltered black people (his parents seem too no-nonsense, for one thing, but I know people that self-deluded DO exist) who think they're the special black friend, somehow exempt from racism, and get their feelings hurt (or twist themselves into denial) when they encounter it. I think Earn does know that he is going to be treated differently than Paperboi by some people (he suspected the radio station guy would never in a million YEARS say n***er to Paperboi and Darius), which is in itself a different form of racism. Whether people are thinking "Oh you're cool, you're not terrible like those OTHER black people" or "I can use racial slurs around you, because you're weak, unlike those OTHER black people," it's still not okay. 

[Jade Foxx]

3 hours ago, withanaich said:

I read it a bit differently, in that I think Earn is stunned when people are racist not because he's thinking "Did you just say that to me? But I'm the cool, special black guy!" but because he's thinking something more like, "Did you just say that to me? That terrible, fucked-up thing? WTF is wrong with you?

Great analysis...yet I still think it's the former. Glover has been on my radar since his Childish Gambino days, and I have a prickly feeling he suscribes to the "new black" movement - I'm special, not like THEM. 

And I'm still waaaay too uncomfortable (and suspicious) with a supposedly enlightened black man/writer who thinks the flagrant use of the N word is progressive or "just keeping it real."

At it's core it's still an act of self-loathing. YMMV of course. 

[possibilities]

I also think there's an issue of how he responds-- it's not always safe to say what you really think when someone slams you with some fucked up stuff. I like that Earn's reactions show that he notices, even if he doesn't say anything. A lot of people think that if no one calls them on it, what they did was OK-- and will use that as an excuse ("I said the same thing to Earn and he didn't mind! Why are you so sensitive?")-- but there are a lot of reasons someone might hold their tongue even if what you did was extremely upsetting to them-- maybe especially if it was extremely upsetting.

[withanaich]

Quote

Great analysis...yet I still think it's the former. Glover has been on my radar since his Childish Gambino days, and I have a prickly feeling he subscribes to the "new black" movement - I'm special, not like THEM. 

I have to admit that I was only peripherally familiar with Glover up until this show came out (I'm honestly unsure if I've seen anything else he's been in), so I'm basing my interpretation on the character's reactions (facial expressions, body language) rather than things the writer has done or said in real life. Now I'm wondering if the character could be simply exhausted by racism even if the creator thinks he's somehow exempt. Is that even possible, for Earn to see racism differently than Glover would, given that he's (at least partly) responsible for what we're watching play out? Or maybe it's possible to read it both ways?

[Rorysmom]

On 10/4/2016 at 11:52 PM, Jade Foxx said:

And a different take is, I feel Earn/Glover thinks that because he's not the stereotypical "scary black boogie man," that he should be treated differently, more special than the Paper Boi's and Darius' of the world. 

It seems someone didn't give him the memo that, it doesn't matter how YOU see you, many times it's how SOCIETY sees you. He keeps getting his feelings hurt or seemingly stunned when faced by racist behavior. Did he and his parents not have The Talk?

The sheer irony of it all, is that Earn portraying THE ULTIMATE stereotype in that he's unemployed, recently jailed, has a child with a woman he's not married to, refuses to work, and shirks his parental responsibilities. 

Darius is a much more profound and interesting character than Earn, with his unique view of the world, out of the box and forward thinking qualities - he could be the one working for Google, Vice, or some other creative marketing or ad enterprise. 

I agree with you somewhat. I think what you are saying hits on a larger point that black folks, (racial minorities in general, but a bit different for black Americans) are often times reacting to the larger white society's actions. Condemnation or praise, it doesn't matter. In Earn's case, he did excel in school because he is naturally gifted and had parents who nurtured that. They probably also did have The Talk with him. So here you are, doing what you are naturally gifted with: intelligence, DRY humor, wit, droll manner, etc., all those things that white society is shown to possess via "indie movies," "smart TV comedies," and in interactions as being inherent to their personality. "Oh, you got that joke?" kind of thing. So when you are that "special one," and are recognized for it, it can feel unsettling, disconcerting, maddening, and accepting. You are being seen as an individual--not a stereotype or group. I can see how it would seem that you/Earn, maybe without even fully acknowledging it, find yourself separating in a way that seems "bougie," "new black," etc.

But, we see that he is faced with the same racism, just in a different way. Which, in turn, he reacts to in a way that does makes his character very ironic.

Edited October 8, 2016 by Rorysmom

[Superpole2000]

This wasn't an entertaining episode. Most of it was just kind of silly without being funny. After the first four episodes, I expected something a bit less juvenile.

[JenE4]

Really interesting perspectives above from everyone. The "ultimate stereotype" (i.e., unemployed baby daddy) that Jade pointed out never would have occurred to me because I agree that Earn's character sort of serves as the relatable Greek Chorus on this show. He gives those looks or those "um-hmm" types of responses to racism to let us know that he knows that this person is being racist. But, like the Greek Chorus, it's just a commentary that it's happening; he's not the type to actually confront anyone about it. I don't know that HE thinks he's special, but he's certainly characterized as "the black friend" that any white person would have, as in the "I'm not racist because I have this black friend here [who's not like 'inner-city gangsta black' but grew up in our nice suburban neighborhood or is an upstanding coworker in the office]." Earn is "The Cosby Show" character of "Atlanta"--a nice, soft-spoken, well-educated kid that all of us white folk can relate to and root for--which makes his character more accessible to a wider audience. That being said--and I hope you know what I mean by that--what I like most about this show is that it challenged my own ideas on racism because I started out worrying for Earn that he was going to get caught up in this "gangsta lifestyle" when we first met Al and Darius with the guns in the parking lot/apartment/cereal box, but then you realize that Al and Darius are just as afraid of that lifestyle as Earn is--finding themselves in these scary situations that they don't want to be in, either. All three characters have really perfected that "oh, no" look when something goes down that just makes me want to reach into my TV and hug them all.

[auntiemel]

Just binge watching this now on Hulu, and I don't really have anything to add to the really insightful things that have already been posted here except that, "I'm going to make sure you die homeless," is going to be my new go-to dramatic-exit insult in professional rivalry situations!