S02.E01: Nature Under Constraint and Vexed

[faceupandsing]

Well that was one hell of a season opener! I'll need another re-watch to catch everything I'm sure I missed but first viewing was fantastic. I agree that Allison's comedic presence was a highlight. Her pepper spray/rape whistle scene had me in hysterics and I hope she finds out that Sarah used her as a distraction at some point because her reaction will be wonderful. Combine that with Felix high and in assless chaps and we had some real humor to balance out the fasted paced action that dominated a lot of the episode. I'm glad they hit the ground running, but the little moments were such a welcome return after such a long break between seasons. 

[Ankai]

At first I thought the Asian people Rachel was meeting with was from Taiwan since she talked to Paul about going there but nope.  They're Korean, which is really smart because the Koreans are big on the cloning science.  Yay for research show!

Not just Koreans..."Both"...

So, a solid start. I figured that those two guys at the beginning were part of a "religious" faction, since why would they be bothered with eggs that got interfered with? As for the gun, I was a bit skeptical, but the creators are Canadian and I am not, so I figured that they knew something that I don't.

The musical play thing was amusing, but I am a little curious about the timeline. How long had this been going on for? What happened during the time that Alison went through a very public breakdown? What happened when she and Aynsley were on the outs? Did she recently return to the group? Is that why she mentioned it to Felix?

And was it sheer coincidence that Cosima arrived in the city in time for the DYAD event or had she already known about that last season? Some people noticed that Sarah's lip injury was gone while she was disguised as Cosima, but returned later on. I could chalk this up to a bit of makeup instead of a continuity error, something that I could not as easily do with Delphine's actions during that conversation between Fauxima and Leekie. I did like that Delphine caught on at the mention of a personal lab instead of an accent slip and that not only did Sarah not recognize her (since she probably had never seen her), but acted pretty hostile towards her. Sarah has few people whom she can trust these days and Delphine is definitely not one of them.

I guess that I should watch last season's finale again to figure out some of the timeline stuff. It seemed a bit odd that Felix would suddenly be at a club just hanging out and Alison seemed to be acting like months had passed since she last saw him. Also, how long has she known Ramon.

Do Canadians use the term "Feds"? I had thought that "Federales" referred more to Mexican authorities, but maybe it could be a little jokey moniker for those North of the border...both of them. 

Edited April 20, 2014 by Ankai

[shapeshifter]

I hope that Ramon seeing Cosima and Sarah doesn't come back to bite the Clone Club in the ass.

They're tough; they can handle it. But poor Ramone might not fair so well. :(

[hardy har]

Do Canadians use the term "Feds"? I had thought that "Federales" referred more to Mexican authorities, but maybe it could be a little jokey moniker for those North of the border...both of them. 

I don't know about Canada but "Feds" is pretty common in American TV and film. It typically tends to refer to the FBI, but it's also used as a sort of derogatory catch-all term by local police when some government agency comes in and take over an investigation.

[Ankai]

I know that. It's just that if Canadians don't use the term much, then it suggests that the show is set in the United States as opposed to Canada.

Oh, how did Rachel know that when Sarah mentioned her family on the phone at the beginning, she was referring to Mrs. S and Kira, but not Felix? Did she assume that Felix was not included, since Paul knew that Felix lives elsewhere?

When did Art learn about Maggie Chen's religious affiliations? Was it simply part of his off-screen detective work during the past couple of days?

Edited April 21, 2014 by Ankai

[Wilowy]

I'd hadn't heard that the show is 'set' in Canada. I thought I'd heard that Toronto is a stand-in for a generic, near-future city that could be anywhere in England, Canada, or America. No?

[Tara Ariano]

Here's Jeff's post on the episode!

[Athena]

I'd hadn't heard that the show is 'set' in Canada. I thought I'd heard that Toronto is a stand-in for a generic, near-future city that could be anywhere in England, Canada, or America. No?

I think "officially" that TPTB indicate the show is in North America, but the Toronto stuff is obvious for those of us who live in Canada. They do not really hide it very well with the locations and props. It's more obvious about it than some American shows/movies that use Toronto as a stand in. I'm not sure why they don't just say outright it is Toronto.

In general, Canadians don't use the term "Feds" for national investigation. That is the RCMP (aka Mounties) and we call them as such. We tend to call our national government, the federal government so it's not a stretch.

[Ceeg]

 

For some reason, I really like Art and I think he's going to bite it.

For a split second, at the end, I thought Art was about to get killed until I realized it was Sarah in the hallway. I do want to like Art though, and I hope he can be a trustworthy ally for Sarah.

 

I just caught that Leekie’s first name is Aldous. Possibly a reference to Aldous Huxley’s Brave New World?

They have referenced that before ("it's really nice to make a friend in the brave new world"), so probably so.

 

I find myself resisting the urge to put Leekie and Rachel as working together. I mean, I know they're on the same side and everything, but something about their scene together made me think there are some . . . . disagreements with they way things are done.

I get the feeling that Rachel is higher up on DYAD hierarchy than Leekie is, so he's sort of her subordinate. 

 

I'm not sure why they don't just say outright it is Toronto.

I think I remember reading an interview with one of the creators back during the first season where they said that they didn't want to specifically say that it takes place in Toronto because they wanted it to feel like it could be anywhere. That the clone thing could be happening in YOUR city, to give it a more universal appeal. 

[Valny]

Anyone know if Sarah's decoy from the skateboard place  is she Tatiana's acting double?  I know I read she has a cameo in one of the eps.

[Ceeg]

Anyone know if Sarah's decoy from the skateboard place  is she Tatiana's acting double?  I know I read she has a cameo in one of the eps.

No, that wasn't her. I think she appears later in the season. Maybe 2.09?

[LittleIggy]

I was hoping Helena was dead but figured she wasn't since Sara didn't put a cap or two in her head.

[shapeshifter]

From TWoP, about the musical Alison was performing:

And apparently based on a real story (which is twisted): bloodtiesthemusical.ca/blog

Edited April 21, 2014 by shapeshifter

[Joystickenvy]

There was. The tail end of the scene at Ramone's car. I also hope we see more of him, and totally picked up on the flirting with Fee.

Last season I watched all in one go, stayed up almost all night, so having just one episode went WAY too quick. But it's back and we get in every week for ten weeks so yay! Cannot wait for ep 2!

Same here. I only discovered the series recently and had planned to watch it on Amazon Prime, but ended up binge watching the season 1 marathon on Friday instead.

Loved the gun buying scene and really all the Allison scenes. Loved Felix & his assless chaps. I'm still in the Mrs. S absconded with Kira camp, but undecided about which, if any, faction she is affiliated with.

Mixed feelings about the return of Helena. On the one hand, I love the crazy goodness and that she's a total BAMF and she's had some of the best black humor lines on the show. I was really starting to root for her right up until she stabbed surrogate mom in the gut. After that, I was kinda resigned to her being too far gone to be anything other than a constant threat and glad Sarah put her down.

Depends on where they go with her whether she'll be interesting or one of those characters that seems to keep rehashing the same basic storyline over and over.

I'm assuming both Sarah & Helena have some of that super healing ability Kira got, though I wonder how it works exactly. Kira's face was still pretty scratched up, so it's not a Wolverine or Cheerleaderesque rapid heal, but obviously they can take a licking and keep on ticking.

It seems like Dyad is working on trying to change patent law re: cloned cells and such, but I still don't see how they make the jump to being able to enforce a patent on something that is illegal to create in the first place with the human clones. Unless it's not the humans themselves, but whatever it is that gives Kira & Helena their healing powers that they intend to claim.

I was a bit confused on where it was supposed to be set as well. I knew it was being shot in Canada, because when I discovered that Drake was that kid who used to be Jimmy on Degrassi, I looked up one of those "where are they now?" Things and the article mentioned that several Degrassi alums had made appearances on Orphan Black, but I couldn't figure out from watching if it was supposed to be set in the US or Canada.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Joystickenvy

[OriginalCyn]

I was hoping Helena was dead but figured she wasn't since Sara didn't put a cap or two in her head.

Mixed feelings about the return of Helena. On the one hand, I love the crazy goodness and that she's a total BAMF and she's had some of the best black humor lines on the show. I was really starting to root for her right up until she stabbed surrogate mom in the gut. After that, I was kinda resigned to her being too far gone to be anything other than a constant threat and glad Sarah put her down.

Depends on where they go with her whether she'll be interesting or one of those characters that seems to keep rehashing the same basic storyline over and over.

Count me in as one of those who was hoping that when Sarah shot Helena that was the last we were going to see of her.  I realize that she's one of the fan faves here, but with the number of known clones, plus god knows how many more will show up in Season Two, having Helena back to cause more trouble isn't something that I'm particularly looking forward to.

Here's Jeff's post on the episode!

Awesome recap of the premiere!! Love it!!

Edited April 21, 2014 by OriginalCyn

[HistoryGirl]

I think "officially" that TPTB indicate the show is in North America, but the Toronto stuff is obvious for those of us who live in Canada. They do not really hide it very well with the locations and props. It's more obvious about it than some American shows/movies that use Toronto as a stand in. I'm not sure why they don't just say outright it is Toronto.

In general, Canadians don't use the term "Feds" for national investigation. That is the RCMP (aka Mounties) and we call them as such. We tend to call our national government, the federal government so it's not a stretch.

In season 1 it was pretty overtly alternate-Toronto, what with Alison living in Scarborough among other shout outs that skip my mind. This season already seems more "American" or at the least less "Canadian". The only close to Toronto shout out I caught was Glendale which is a part of York University.

The weird thing to note about the "Feds" if they are still in fauxCanada is that the RCMP in realOntario are unlikely to be involved in a run of the mill diner murder. All criminal matters are automatically "federal" jurisdiction by the sheer nature of being criminal (unless we're talking traffic issues which are provincial). The only way the RCMP ("Feds") would be involved in investigation is if it was inter-provincial or some sort of smuggling/cross border operation. Local police deal with that, charging criminals and forwarding the cases to the Attorney General's office (crown, aka federal).

Side note: In realOntario, the local police would handle a diner murder. In other provinces the "Feds" would because they might not have local or regional police.

[OakGoblinFly]

When Dr. Leekie warned Delphine  against "playing for the other team?"  A thousand lesbians yelled.  "Thats the whole point!"  

 

See, and here I was thinking that the "other" team meant the Prolethians or some other party that wasn't DYAD.

[Kaboom 2.0]

SO happy this show is back and it hit the ground running. I rewatched season 1 this past weekend and got the boyfriend hooked. After Alison-as-Sarah explained why she and Kira must keep secret why Alison is visiting and not Sarah, Fee and Mrs. S approach them and Kira pointedly replies "yes, mummy" to Alison. Boyfriend later admitted that one small scene chipped its way into his heart. He still can never remember Paul's name though. LOL

He asked me a question I could not answer, maybe someone here can. Is that a  young Mrs. S in the photo labeled Project Leda from 1977? One of the theories I've been spitballing at him (that I'm sure are all way off base) involved Shiobhan and who is in that photo.

Likes: Sarah's continued use of her smarts (and her getting physical with "no one lays hands on me!" Rachel). Alison continuing to be the fictional lurve of my life, from rape whistle to community theatre to her association with Ramon (and politeness re: his mother) to her truly lovely bouquet and homemade card. Donnie continuing to sleep in tee shirt and ill fitting undies. Dyad flunkie Daniel apologizing to Alison; I'm so used to rude bad guys that his apology actually surprised me. Felix's unwavering support to his foster sis, Kira and Alison.

Dislikes: as much as I like Helena...I actually sighed when we saw her bloody boots; I can't even imagine what else she'll muck up this season. Art's partner Angie. I'll throw Art in here for now even though he seems to at least be open to listening to Sarah. And that scene of the Prolethian brushing Kira's hair while she sits on the bed framed by a video camera. I seriously shuddered. That was CREEPY to me.

[Athena]

In season 1 it was pretty overtly alternate-Toronto, what with Alison living in Scarborough among other shout outs that skip my mind. This season already seems more "American" or at the least less "Canadian". The only close to Toronto shout out I caught was Glendale which is a part of York University.

The weird thing to note about the "Feds" if they are still in fauxCanada is that the RCMP in realOntario are unlikely to be involved in a run of the mill diner murder. All criminal matters are automatically "federal" jurisdiction by the sheer nature of being criminal (unless we're talking traffic issues which are provincial). The only way the RCMP ("Feds") would be involved in investigation is if it was inter-provincial or some sort of smuggling/cross border operation. Local police deal with that, charging criminals and forwarding the cases to the Attorney General's office (crown, aka federal).

Side note: In realOntario, the local police would handle a diner murder. In other provinces the "Feds" would because they might not have local or regional police.

In the opening shot of this episode, Sarah clearly runs past a CIBC Bank before going into the diner. Again, Americans wouldn't get this, but for us Canadians though...

The whole feds thing is strange because Art says the case has been handled to "Feds" because it in "domestic terrorism" which would fall under interprovincial business. I am assuming the Proletheans are widespread too. Terrorism is also under the jurisdiction of the Canadian intelligence agency: CSIS. They monitor domestic terrorists as well. 

I'm going to have to start assuming Canada and the US have amalagmated into one super nation with all these references.

Dislikes: as much as I like Helena...I actually sighed when we saw her bloody boots; I can't even imagine what else she'll muck up this season.

I also sighed. I thought it was a powerful moment in S1 for Sarah to get the point where she shoots her twin. I like Helena too, but she just adds yet another factor. Hopefully she'll get redeemed because I can't forget how she shot their bio mom in cold blood.

[tveyeonyou]

"He asked me a question I could not answer, maybe someone here can. Is that a  young Mrs. S in the photo labeled Project Leda from 1977? One of the theories I've been spitballing at him (that I'm sure are all way off base) involved Shiobhan and who is in that photo."

I've been wondering the same thing about Mrs. S, she's definitely involved in something shady, or at the very least knows a lot more than she's letting on. The photo from 1977 seems to have the names blacked out on the back of the photo but it must be Mrs. S, I'm going with this theory because of Sarah and Helena's birth Mother mentioning something about Mrs. S before Helena killed her dead.

Another thing I wonder is, who is Kira's father?

[shapeshifter]

I'm guessing Mrs. S. was an original member of the clone project, but then decided it was immoral and tried to save Helena and Sarah from becoming property or lab rats. Perhaps she figured they were most vulnerable to DYADs evil machinations because of their healing abilities. Maybe she didn't expect the others to survive.

I'm even wondering if one of her own eggs was used.

Okay. Editing to add I like this from TWoP better than my theory:

Mrs. S.  I also wonder if she wasn't part of 'State' originally (Helena was given to Church and Sarah to state), and maybe she fell in love with her

baby clone and took off with her?  Yes, I am fan-wanking this to make Mrs. S. NOT be a bad guy, although at first I thought maybe she took off

 with Kira, in order to keep her safe.

And I'm okay with the return of Helena because it seems like part of the long arc that she and Sarah have a special bond because they are twins, and both of them and Kira have healing abilities. I'm actually less okay with Kira's face not being healed more quickly--I want an explanation for that.

Edited April 21, 2014 by shapeshifter

[CleoCaesar]

Donnie continuing to sleep in tee shirt and ill fitting undies.

Whenever he comes on screen looking like that, I immediately think of this.

[shapeshifter]

Here's Jeff's post on the episode!

and after the gut, the pilot is the worst place to get shot

LOL. Is this the first time this line has been typed? Just in case, I will tweet it with proper attributions since Twitter, unlike TWoP forums, is being archived by the Library of Congress.

[beedub]

Twitter, unlike TWoP forums, is being archived by the Library of Congress.

Wow. That's scarier than patenting of genetic sequences.

In season 1 it was pretty overtly alternate-Toronto, what with Alison living in Scarborough among other shout outs that skip my mind. This season already seems more "American" or at the least less "Canadian".

This does seem to be the case, it's a wilful obscuring of the location. But I can't help thinking that we all know it's shot in Toronto, so can't we just have this one? I know, I'm being possessive!

Regarding Helena, I think the bond of connection between her and Sarah has been irreparably damaged, with no one more to blame than herself. So it's likely to be antagonism all the way, but possibly working rogue, as she seemed disillusioned with the Proletheans by the end of Season 1. And yes, that healing ability she shares with Sarah and Kira will undoubtedly be a key factor. Plus, jokes!

[Wilowy]

Isn't Toronto this huge mecca for television and movie production, these days? Precisely because it's such a great stand-in for so many different cities? Y'all are hardly BFE. :)

I'm glad Helena's back because I want to see some semblance of development with her. I felt her story had much more to tell, and I'm looking forward to seeing it unfold. She's not just an assassin, she's got real problems and real emotion and I'd like to see her get on the redemption train so she can stop being such a threat and start helping in her own twisted ways (tail dance, anyone?).

Anyone else think she's going to be instrumental in reuniting Kira with Sarah? In the couple of short scenes we got with Kira and Helena, there was a connection established (Kira has no fear of her), and we know Helena doesn't take those kind of connections lightly. 

[DioxinBlues]

This does seem to be the case, it's a wilful obscuring of the location. But I can't help thinking that we all know it's shot in Toronto, so can't we just have this one? I know, I'm being possessive!

 

I must be the only person who truly does not give a rat's ass what city they're in. The creators said it's Generica because of the push-me/pull-you from Space Channel and BBC America. I get it that Canadians are (rightfully) proud of the show and want to claim it as much as possible, but the "anywhere" city vibe actually works for me in creating this odd sense of displacement and heightens the vaguely near-future aspect they've got rockin'. 

 

*Edited for adventures in quoting.

Edited April 21, 2014 by DioxinBlues

[Ankai]

It is not as if I "care" where it is set either; it is just that I am assuming that it is in Toronto until we are told otherwise. The scenes with cash alone make it highly unlikely that this takes place in the United States, though I don't remember seeing any cash past the first few episodes. I suppose that other things could be explained away, like talk of "feds" or the gun at the diner, but I am not sure why the creators would throw those things in if they knew that it would distract many Canadian viewers.

[RachelKM]

I love this show so much.  And season 2 started off full throttle with Sarah literally running for her child and her life.

I loved Alison's "How's your mother?" after buying her trunk sale lady grip, and her "Those do look nice" when the Saturday night special bouquet come into view on Skype.  Also the righting herself as she got out of the kidnap van.  The whole fright was hysterical, but something about the way Alison does her post-crisis re-centering and forced normal cracks me up.  

I love that Alison manages to be comic relief, but in a way that does not undermine the tone of the show. There is an intensity even to her comedic moments that suits the show.  

Also funny, but differently so, was Delphine's reactions as she realized Comsia was really Sarah.  And it was clear that she became certain just before Leekie walked up.  I also liked that Delphine covered, but was immediately concerned only for Cosmia and whether Sarah's actions were ok with her. It makes up a bit for her giving the vial of blood to Leekie against Cosmia's wishes (even if I do think that was intended to help Cosmia).

I was actually thinking  a little about why Sarah was able to pull off an almost instant transition to Alison, but couldn't quite slip into Cosmia as easily.  Both Sarah and Alison have a hum of intensity to them.  But Cosmia, while being intense about science and things hat fascinate her, is a much more calm person.  Sarah would have to work harder to switch gears that dramatically on a day she wasn't frantic to get to her daughter.

The location of the show is almost certainly intended to be Toronto.  Alison lives in Scarborough and Beth's birth certificate said she was born in East York.  Plus, though I don't recall from the season 2 episode, the license plates shown in season one were Ontario plates. 

Edited April 22, 2014 by RachelKM

[Happytobehere]

So many of my thoughts have already been articulated by others, so here is my abbreviated two-cents:

I am not a big Helena fan. It sucks that her upbringing has made her deranged and semi-feral, but Helena will never be able to be trusted and she is fat too erratic to be anything more of a temporary benefit to either side. Ultimately, the only sensible out for Helena IMO is death. Because she is such a tortured soul, I would prefer a quick acting and gentle poison, so she doesn't suffer or know it's coming.

Add me to the list of those who do not trust Delphine. She will have to work long and hard to convince me that her intentions are good.

As for Art, I want to trust him for two reasons: 1) Every authority figure can't be in on the big bad conspiracy, 2) His character brings diversity to the show so making him a villain is something I would prefer not to see. Having said that, his comment about Kira and the Prolethians troubles me. When the Feds take over a case, they do not share info (especially not voluntarily) with the local yocals. Knowing this, how does Art know what he knows?

As for poor bland Paul, how can a show that has hit the casting gold mine with so many other characters have done such a piss poor job with casting this character? Is there a deeper plan going on here and the acting is being asked to dial it back in preparation of this big reveal?

[Endeavour]

Good premiere with a lot of humor to balance things out. Although it just felt wrong laughing at the scene with Alison and her whistle and pepper spray - not that that stopped me.

I wasn't thrilled to see Helena back but, now that she is, I agree they need to develop her character. I'm not interested in a retread of S1.

Not sure what to think about Art. That one line of his about Sarah almost trusting him gave me pause. Right now I'm leaning towards him being ok.

I'm completely blanking here. Several people mentioned Sarah's healing abilities. Can someone give me an example of when we've seen this? I know Kira has them but I don't recall seeing this with Sarah.

[millahnna]

Noticed the actor playing Vic wasn't, which I'm OK with, since I think his story came to a decent conclusion last season.  But I wont' be against an appearance or two.

 

I just really, really like that actor (who was all over American and Canadian TV last year, for the record) so I'd be down for a brief return if they could write something that made sense.  There could be a certain comedic potential to Clone Club needing his help for some reason.  A passing thought I had in the opener is that while Allison may know a gun dealer named Ramon, Sarah has underworld/street skills and contacts that the rest of Clone Club doesn't, which can give her an edge.  If she were out of commission for a minute, I can see a hypothetical where Felix turns to him for some kind of help in some way. 

 

Regarding Mr. S... that has to be her in the photo.  The woman's face is damaged (as in the picture is damaged where her face is) and on the back of the photo with the redacted Professor names, there's the tiniest hint of the letter "S" on the second name.  So my money, for the moment anyway, is on her having worked on the project but bailed much like Alice Chen.  I'm undecided for the moment on if she was ever a part of the religious wingnut group.  She seems really separate from all other parties with an interest in the clones. 

 

Also, I may need to rewatch the Commitments to hear her sing again now (Maria Doyle Kennedy has some serious pipes). 

[kat165]

Cleo, thanks for the link. That is so true!

I've always found it odd that so many shows use a Canadian location as US sub, like Fringe filmed there and it stood in for Boston/New York, as it's supposedly cheaper to film there, but I've been to Canada and everything else is so much
more expensive there. From personal experience I know books and cough drops are costly.

I'm wondering if we will ever get any more info on Beth. Why did she really shoot something or other Chent and why did she kill herself? Did the Prolethians make a move against her?

Happy, I agree with your comments on Paul & the casting. He is bland and not a very good actor as compared to the others. All of the others.

I'm glad Vic's gone. Didn't like the character or the actor. Not too happy about the return of Helena either. I was happy when Sarah shot her! Although I can see that there's more story there to tell.

[lurk3000]

I'm hoping Helena will do away with Angie. I just don't want anything bad happening to Allison. Yay my first previously TV post!

[Carrie Ann]

I'm in the minority because I like Paul. I think he's supposed to be sort of a stoic dude (in the line of a Michael from Nikita, for example) and I may be biased because of shallow reasons, but I don't mind the way Dylan Bruce plays it. And I like his chemistry with Sarah. If anything is confusing about Paul, I put it down to either being intentional or unclear directing choices. I don't think we're supposed to know yet whether Paul is more loyal to Sarah or to himself. I don't think he knows. Which is why he's still working for DYAD while also helping her as it's possible.

I rewatched the episode yesterday, and just ruminated on how much I love Allison. She does work as comedic relief in some ways, but I think what keeps that character (and the whole show) grounded is the clones' growing connection to each other. When Sarah was coming up with her plan and said, "Allison's not going to like it," my husband said, "Oh no!" like he thought for a minute that Sarah was sacrificing Allison to save her own skin. I immediately said, "She would never hurt Allison." And that's when I realized how true it was. And Allison, for all her protestations, went right out there and got them that gun. They're all family now, and I love it so much.

But Rachel, you can't join the Clone Club Family, sorry. I loved Sarah shooting a bullet inches from her head right after she said, "You won't kill me," and then jumping on her, gun to her temple. You can tell that a lifetime of cooperation and protection has made Rachel a little deluded about her own invincibility.

[greystreak98]

Willowy:

Anyone else think she's going to be instrumental in reuniting Kira with Sarah? In the couple of short scenes we got with Kira and Helena, there was a connection established (Kira has no fear of her), and we know Helena doesn't take those kind of connections lightly. 

I like this theory, and I hope it's true.  It would be some nice character growth for Helena to really question the Proletheans who warped her because they were holding Kira.  And then to do her best to save Kira.  Kira hugged her, IIRC, and I doubt Helena got much affection like that growing up.  Since Helena's back, I'd like her to become more than just the cra-zaa assassin clone.

Edited April 22, 2014 by greystreak98

[wanderingstar]

Enjoyed the season premiere, but I'm annoyed that Helena is back. She's always been my least favorite of the clones. Not a very interesting character, and, IMO, she's run her course.

Felix and Allison together remain a fun pair!

[Wilowy]

I find Helena to be the most interesting clone. To me, Tatiana has infused her with depth and layers, pain and... understanding. She took a character that could easily have been one-note, a vicious psychopath, and made her sympathetic. Helena's robotic about killing and it's what she's been programmed to do, but feels deeply about what she perceives to be the 'good' or 'right' in the world. She's suffered immeasurably, but rather than go numb, she's trying to find peace and safety. Even love. And jello.

Is she fucked up? Oh hell yeah. But I'm hoping this season will 'unfuck' her, at least a little.  

[Snarkette]

 

I'm hoping this season will 'unfuck' her, at least a little.

The great thing about Helena is that she's a loose canon. I can't wait for her to bond a bit with her neicestra.

[Wilowy]

Whoops! I love Helena talk, although lets move it over to her thread if we want to continue. My fault, but since it was in response to a poster who WAS on-topic, I'll let these stay here. 

("Niecestra" - awesome. Stealing!)

[txvoodoo]

In the opening shot of this episode, Sarah clearly runs past a CIBC Bank before going into the diner. Again, Americans wouldn't get this, but for us Canadians though..

Weirdly, that's what made me think it IS Canada, because that's familiar from HGTV shows from Canada to this Texas watcher!

That, and Allison's community - it looks so much like a house that David would show on Love it or List it. :D 

[OriginalCyn]

I've been dealing with a rather nasty stomach bug that's making the rounds here, and about the only thing I can keep down is Jello.  Given my obsession with this show, every time I had a bowl in front of me, my fevered brain kept flashing back to Helena scarfing down that bowl of Jello like it was the finest of crème brulée.

 

I may never look at Jello the same way ever again.

[shapeshifter]

I'm completely blanking here. Several people mentioned Sarah's healing abilities. Can someone give me an example of when we've seen this? I know Kira has them but I don't recall seeing this with Sarah.

Oops. Right. Anyone? I have a terrible memory.

Well, Sarah doesn't seem to have the lung disease problem of Cosima and Katja. Maybe it's not that simple. Maybe Sarah was just able to pass on the healing thing to Kira but doesn't have it herself.

The main thing about Sarah is that she's not sterile, unlike Dolly the lamb or clones in general. So, for purposes of plot, I suppose any one of the clones could pretend to be Sarah and threaten to off herself to manipulate DYAD.

[seamusk]

Well, Sarah doesn't seem to have the lung disease problem of Cosima and Katja. Maybe it's not that simple. Maybe Sarah was just able to pass on the healing thing to Kira but doesn't have it herself.

The main thing about Sarah is that she's not sterile, unlike Dolly the lamb or clones in general. So, for purposes of plot, I suppose any one of the clones could pretend to be Sarah and threaten to off herself to manipulate DYAD.

I don't know that we've seen Sarah's healing abilities yet per se.  But the fact that Helena and Kira have them does suggest that Sarah does as well.  Or could have them anyhow.  It's possible that some special traits (healing, ability to birth, etc...) could be carried by one twin but not the other.  I think we just have to wait and see what's true.

[RachelKM]

I don't know that we've seen Sarah's healing abilities yet per se.  But the fact that Helena and Kira have them does suggest that Sarah does as well.  Or could have them anyhow.  It's possible that some special traits (healing, ability to birth, etc...) could be carried by one twin but not the other.  I think we just have to wait and see what's true.

Taking my reply to the Sarah thread.

[beedub]

Cleo, thanks for the link. That is so true!

I've always found it odd that so many shows use a Canadian location as US sub, like Fringe filmed there and it stood in for Boston/New York, as it's supposedly cheaper to film there, but I've been to Canada and everything else is so much

more expensive there. From personal experience I know books and cough drops are costly.

True, consumer goods are a bit pricier here, but that isn't the issue. Many productions are shot here because the Canadian government offers financial incentives like tax breaks that make it cheaper for films and TV shows to be made here, coupled with the availability of experienced and skilled crews. But most American productions, quite reasonably, aren't inclined to use, say, Vancouver as Vancouver (but we still love you, Fringe). This is why it would be nice, for once, for a show like OB to admit it takes place in Toronto as it's made by a local producer and could reasonably be set here, story-wise.

I'm glad Vic's gone. Didn't like the character or the actor. Not too happy about the return of Helena either.

But the actress is OK, right? ;-)

[rove4]

Awesome start to the season.  Add me to those who are not all that thrilled with Helena's survival.  She makes for a (crazy) interesting character but her defying death, again, removes a lot of the emotional weight and consequences for me.  There's no suspense if I know she's going to keep popping back up like some cartoon villain.  

 

But maybe I just go against the grain because I like Paul.  I work with veterans and his subdued demeanor is quite on point with them.  Of course, almost all the veterans I work with suffer from PTSD or depression, sometimes both.  Given what we know of Paul's time in Afghanistan, which admittedly isn't much, I could buy him having PTSD.  And even if he doesn't, given that his current situation has him between a rock and a hard place, it would seem odd if he was all happy-go-lucky.  So I think Dylan Bruce is playing him pretty appropriately.

 

Now, whether he can be trusted is another matter.  So far he seems to want to help Sarah, despite the fact that Daniel has already threatened to put a bullet in him if he does.  Time will tell.  That applies to Art as well.  I want him to be on the up and up but it would be just like this show to lead us to believe that Art is helping and Paul is betraying only to switch it up at the end.  In short, I'm side eyeing everyone (save maybe Felix).

Edited April 24, 2014 by rove4

[kat165]

Beedub, thank you for the info on Canadian production. I've always wondered.

 

Still loving Fringe here too (doing about my 10th rewatch now!)

 

About the return of Helena - yeah, the actress rocks! I would also like to see her character developed more (if we're stuck with her) and I like the possibilities of her rescuing Kira since they did bond. Her interactions with Kira are worth watching.

 

I think Paul is walking a thin line. Who does he help? Himself or Sarah? Not an easy choice especially if helping Sarah means a bullet in the head.

[Wilowy]

I wouldn't be adverse to seeing her and Paul team up with Helena and Alison to save Kira. 

 

I like Paul. I don't think he's boring (his 'oh no what did we do' head-butt to Sarah last season stuck him in my heart), but I want to see them team UP already.

[beedub]

Beedub, thank you for the info on Canadian production. I've always wondered.

No problem. Once you know that, it does make a lot more sense – after all, productions don't come here for the weather!

 

I think Paul is walking a thin line. Who does he help? Himself or Sarah? Not an easy choice especially if helping Sarah means a bullet in the head.

To weigh in on Paul, I think a lot of people are unduly harsh toward him, and especially to the actor. I think Dylan Bruce is fine with the way he portrays him, given what he has to work with. If that's the beef, that the character isn't as well written as others, then there's something in that, though I will say he's had his moments (just about anything in Alison's garage). But they can't all be Tatiana or Jordan, and obviously anyone else is going to pale by comparison. In that role, many other actors would fare as well. At the very least, he seems to be a good team (ensemble) player, so let's hope he gets some better opportunities than he's had lately.

[bravelittletoaster]

Side note: In realOntario, the local police would handle a diner murder. In other provinces the "Feds" would because they might not have local or regional police.

 

Yeah, they would in America, too.  But when the Feds are called in, the implication is that there's something more to the case than just a dude shooting up a diner [which turned out to be true on the show].

 

I'm so used to American shows shooting in Canada because it's cheaper that I accept the setting as kind of "Gotham" esque.  New York ish.  I've seen a couple of interviews where the creators kind of alluded to the muddied setting as a way not to turn off US audiences.  Toronto hardly inspires the imagination the way some of our grittier cities do, sorry not sorry.  But I don't give much thought to to the setting anyways.