S01.E04: The Darker Sooner

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

The Bordelon siblings return to their everyday lives; Ralph Angel struggles to run the family farm; Charley resumes managing her husband's basketball career; and Nova seeks justice for a friend's son who she believes was wrongfully imprisoned.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Hate to say it but I have a bad feeling about Ralph Angel having access to that much money. He has a good heart but he may be in over his head as far as having full responsibility for running the farm is concerned. Nova and Charley should have known better than to think they could just go on about their lives and leave Ralph Angel and the farm to hope and luck--especially since he already has a full-time job that's a condition of his parole.

Charley seems to think that throwing money at it is the answer to every problem. Looks like she's going to be learning a tough lesson.

[maraleia]

They've set it up perfectly for Charley and her son to move to Louisiana permanently with the son getting kicked out of school. I'm really loving this show's many layers of storytelling.

[Empress1]

I didn't understand why Micah didn't tell the powers that be that the dick pic wasn't his. I guess he doesn't want to be at that school anymore? I knew his GF was trouble when she was making fun of his family in the last episode.

26 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Hate to say it but I have a bad feeling about Ralph Angel having access to that much money. He has a good heart but he may be in over his head as far as having full responsibility for running the farm is concerned. Nova and Charley should have known better than to think they could just go on about their lives and leave Ralph Angel and the farm to hope and luck--especially since he already has a full-time job that's a condition of his parole.

Charley seems to think that throwing money at it is the answer to every problem. Looks like she's going to be learning a tough lesson.

I agree. Ralph Angel is well-intentioned, but that is a huge task and I don't get the impression that he knows anything about farming. He didn't know how to inspect the cane, for example. They really do need a farm manager but I'm guessing they can't afford to hire one. I'm sure Remy will be stepping in more often to help (and eventually sleeping with Charley).

In fairness to Charley, you can wipe out a of problems with money, and it's not a stretch to think that a prostitute who slept with wealthy ballers would be targeting their money. Curious to see what the prostitute wants instead of a payout. I hope she (the prostitute) isn't pregnant. I internally applauded when Charley got a full STD screening - that's rarely mentioned in cases of infidelity unless it's a plot point (I can think of two TV shows where a cheating husband gave his wife AIDS).

The corrupt prison system is a cause of Ava's - she's done a few documentaries about it. It looks like she's carrying that over here.

[EtheltoTillie]

That was nasty, the guy who would not sell the seed cane.  The other buyer (don't remember his name) told them they'd face opposition.  Is there supposed to be a concerted effort among the local white farmers?  

 

Good for Ralph Angel for getting some seed from one of his other fellow workers.  I too worried about his access to so much money.  We will have to see how this pans out.

[ribboninthesky1]

So...is Ralph Angel gonna have some kind of tantrum/borderline breakdown every episode? Dude was born in 1989, so that would make him 26 or 27.  He's not a child. He's annoyed me from the jump, and the irritation grows with each episode.  

I don't blame Charley or Nova for Ralph Angel's immaturity (especially since Vi, without a hint of irony, coddled him with the emotional manipulation BS about them "bullying" him in the previous ep).  He presumably grew up on the farm - he didn't learn anything about farm operations? At all?  Earnest taught him nothing? The way he was going on last week, I thought he knew something. Boy, bye.

I feel for the sisters - their father left them with a big mess to clean up because he was too proud to admit the farm was in trouble, and now there's Ralph Angel flailing about with his ego and pride against what are already serious headwinds. It really resonates - it's been my observation and experience that (particularly lower class) black women often have to pick up the pieces and hold things together while coddling adult males.  Thank goodness for Remy and Hollywood - for now, at least.   

I figured the man who tried to buy the farm would implicitly cause problems for them, and I assumed that's what happened with the initial attempt to purchase seed cane. I also knew Ralph Angel's co-worker was setting him up for a con as soon as he mentioned the farm.   

At first, I didn't understand why Micah was more devastated about Stella cheating on him than being expelled.  Then I remembered he's a teenager, heh. 

I'm assuming Nova's story, which was the most interesting part of the plot this week, is gonna cause a wee bit of conflict with Calvin.  That corruption doesn't just impact black men, though I would be surprised to see the show explore how that system doubly devastates black women and girls. 

[represent]

Quote

Nova and Charley should have known better than to think they could just go on about their lives and leave Ralph Angel and the farm to hope and luck--especially since he already has a full-time job that's a condition of his parole.

Why should they be the only ones to have known better? Ralph Angel is a grown ass man with a son and worse he was being offered help but because he's so damn immature, he refused it and ended up throwing money down the drain. I hope I don't see those two sisters of his treating him like some baby throughout this series. Where blame is on him, it needs to be pointed out and not placed on his sisters because they are women, supposedly smarter, and older. He is a grown man with a child, he needs to take ownership of it all. He bitched about wanting to try to keep the farm, Aunt Vi asked them to listen to  him, so they are giving him a chance, because no way in hell do I think they should help him farm that land. They said repeatedly that they aren't going to farm land and are not interested, and they shouldn't have to be just for Ralph Angel nor their beloved father. Those women too, have to live their lives.  Ralph Angel is blowing the opportunity all on his own and making it harder than it has to be right out of the gate because he doesn't have sense enough to take advantage of the wealth of knowledge that, that cute black farmer guy offered to him. I forgot his name, but I suspect he'll be hooking up with Charlie eventually.  This is not the stage of life where he should be I have to prove I can do this ALL by myself and if someone steps in and helps me, I'm going to throw/break up all my crayons and pout because someone had to help me. 

Clearly it's obvious that Ralph Angel is starting to annoy me. I see him as really having a lot of growing up to do and I have no patience because he has a kid. He and  Blue's mother need to just get it together. She seems to be on her way and I like that she doesn't whine and throw fits like Ralph Angel seems to do. He needs to calm down, he has family, he has people that care, he has more than one roof over his head, he's not going hungry, he has a job. He has it made when you compare his situation to many who come out of prison and have to start from scratch withouy help.

The young, black farmer guy offered to help him and he stupidly refused, he has to take ownership of that choice, not his sisters, because it cost him 15K, not Nova, not Charlie,  Ralph Angel did that all on his own. He needs to smarten up,  because his first crack at farming his father's land didn't have to start off this way. He probably didn't want to take cute farmer guy's help because he's probably jealous of the connection he had with his father and that he is a success. I can see that, but his father is gone now and no longer there, so he doesn't have to feel like he he's being compared to anyone. Because he seemed fine with taking help from the guy at work so??? Jealousy has to be at play as to why he wouldn't take the help of a long time friend/ fellow black farmer of his father's who has had success farming.  The guy at work, he just met him. Just because you ask for help or rather it's information he so desperately needs doesn't make you less of a man, it makes you smart and not out of 15K for crying out loud.   I think I have issues because it seems like he comes from a decent family and he might be spoiled courtesy of his father.  I keep thinking about what Aunt Vi said to him about not raising Blue the way he was raised, shielded from reality and it seems like responsibility as well.

However, I did like the scene with he and Nova at the end though.

Edited September 22, 2016 by represent

[DearEvette]

1 hour ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

I don't blame Charley or Nova for Ralph Angel's immaturity (especially since Vi, without a hint of irony, coddled him with the emotional manipulation BS about them "bullying" him in the previous ep).  He presumably grew up on the farm - he didn't learn anything about farm operations? At all?  Earnest taught him nothing? The way he was going on last week, I thought he knew something. Boy, bye.

I got the clear vibe in last episode that Ralph Angel probably was babied to some extent.  We still don't know what the  family dynamic was for them growing up.  What exactly Earnest' relationship with them was.  And obviously something went pear-shaped with RA for him to have gotten into drugs and gone to jail and to have absolutely no knowledge of the farm.  I can't 100% blame him for his lack of knowledge only for his naivete....

 

22 minutes ago, represent said:

The young, black farmer guy offered to help him and he stupidly refused, he has to take ownership of that choice, not his sisters, because it cost him 15K, not Nova, not Charlie,  Ralph Angel did that all on his own. He needs to smarten up,  because his first crack at farming his father's land didn't have to start off this way.

... And his stupidity and his pride.  Because refusing the help of a an experienced farmer when you don't even know enough about your crop to see when it is bad is just dumb.  But honestly, from a story telling standpoint I love that this element of him was included.  I like that it isn't going to be easy for him.  And it is good that he is making rookie mistakes.  He'll learn better this way. 

I knew RA would fuck it up it was just a matter of what degree.  I was very skeptical when they were talking about Charley leaving him that money, my hope is that he doesn't mess the money up, but if he does it is through ignorance and mismanagement and not something more sinister.  I am hopeful because so far Ava Duvernay hasn't been going with the cheap storytelling.

Frankly, I was more upset with Nova.  She's my favorite and I applaud her reformer zeal.  But I hated that she was blowing off RA.  She knows he was over his head.  And it broke my heart when RA called her out on her neglect of him when he was inside.  Hopefully this is another corner turned for them.

Meanwhile, Nova's married boo is so fine.... sigh.

As much as I despide Davis, I want Charley to triumph in everything.  She is so steely.  She is a baller.  But I also want her back in NOLA.   And I knew Micah's girlfriend was trifling last week.

Finally, I loved her line delivery when she found out the hooker's name was Goldie.  The utter disdain dripping from her lips was great.  LOL.

[represent]

Quote

 But honestly, from a story telling standpoint I love that this element of him was included.  I like that it isn't going to be easy for him.  And it is good that he is making rookie mistakes.  He'll learn better this way. 

I do to, it makes for good story telling and I think I'm supposed to be frustrated with this aspect of his character. Still root for him, get frustrated and want to ring his ears at the setbacks, but never stop rooting for him, for all of them. 

[bichonblitz]

3 hours ago, GussieK said:

Good for Ralph Angel for getting some seed from one of his other fellow workers.  I too worried about his access to so much money.  We will have to see how this pans out.

I thought they inherited the land, not cash. 

 

35 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

I knew RA would fuck it up it was just a matter of what degree.

I agree. I'm still pissed that he gets away with robbery. Unless it comes back to haunt him in a later episode.  

[ribboninthesky1]

Ralph Angel kind of reminds me of Mary Jane's niece from Being Mary Jane - always quick to blame and guilt trip other people for their circumstances and poor decision-making, despite having a ton of familial support.  At least her immaturity was more age-based - I think she was late teens when the show started, maybe early 20s.

Personally, I thought it was low of Ralph Angel to throw Nova's supposed lack of visitation in her face just because he can't handle when things aren't going his way and actually take the help being offered by someone with common sense.  I don't know how Nova was supposed to help since she knows nothing about farming, either.  But he does that - something doesn't go his way, he has a tantrum, and lashes out at the very people who support him.  If we hadn't had the early scene with Remy, I'd be more sympathetic.  Otherwise, meh. I don't feel the least bit sorry for someone who's been coddled for who knows how long, and then is too ridiculous to accept even more help from someone who knows farming.     

As for drugs and jail - it could be as simple as him getting involved with the wrong crowd.  If something traumatic happened, I'll concede the point.  I don't think the show has stated how long he was incarcerated - I do recall the first episode indicating he'd been out for six months. 

1 hour ago, represent said:

I do to, it makes for good story telling and I think I'm supposed to be frustrated with this aspect of his character. Still root for him, get frustrated and want to ring his ears at the setbacks, but never stop rooting for him, for all of them. 

The last two episodes have ended with one or both of the sisters capitulating to Ralph Angel, despite his general lack of personal responsibility.  I have a different view - I suspect the show is like, "See! This young black man is trying, y'all! But the system is against him!" Nah son, I see a spoiled (albeit fine via the actor) manchild who leaves his child alone in a park while he robs a corner store, not for money to eat or pay rent or buy school clothes mind you, but to give to his aunt out of some warped sense of pride...but had to be forced by his probation officer, literally threatened with more jail time, to get a job? I can't. I'll root for him when he starts acting like an adult. I don't mind mistakes, but that's not what I'm seeing from Ralph Angel to date. When a 15 year-old comes off more mature than someone almost twice his age...it's hard to support. 

Edited September 22, 2016 by ribboninthesky1

[plurie]

3 hours ago, GussieK said:

That was nasty, the guy who would not sell the seed cane.  The other buyer (don't remember his name) told them they'd face opposition.  Is there supposed to be a concerted effort among the local white farmers?  

 

Good for Ralph Angel for getting some seed from one of his other fellow workers.  I too worried about his access to so much money.  We will have to see how this pans out.

It was my impression that the Bourdelons hadn't registered with the state, so the seller couldn't sell him the seed cane. Remy asked RA if he'd registered, and RA blew him off. All the seed cane for St. Joe's Parish had already been sold to the registered farmers.

[represent]

Quote

Ralph Angel kind of reminds me of Mary Jane's niece from Being Mary Jane - always quick to blame and guilt trip other people for their circumstances and poor decision-making, despite having a ton of familial support.  At least her immaturity was more age-based - I think she was late teens when the show started, maybe early 20s.

Yes, she is a hot mess, boy does she frustrate me. Just when I would think she was actually on her way to getting her act together, she'd drop the ball.

Edited September 22, 2016 by represent

[represent]

Quote

I have a different view - I suspect the show is like, "See! This young black man is trying, y'all! But the system is against him!" Nah son, I see a spoiled (albeit fine via the actor) 

Actually, I have faith in Duvernay, the lady is deep, she's got this.

She's going somewhere and I most definitely believe it isn't toward everything is poor Ralph Angel.

[RedKoolAide]

The first thought that entered my head when Ralph Angel was entrusted with all that money was A Raisin in the Sun. Lena gave Walter Lee half the money thinking(or hoping) he'd do right by it but he fucked it up. I knew Ralph Angel would do the same even if he had good intentions. He needs to grow up and stop acting like he doesn't need help when it's obvious he doesn't know what the hell he's doing.

[Joimiaroxeu]

I agree that RA exercises bad judgment left and right but it's not as if his sisters don't know that. Sure, he should take responsibility for his mistakes and lower his pride enough to accept help when it's sincerely offered. However, it seems to me that he was almost set up to fail and it could easily have been avoided if they had put better structure in place to help him whether he wanted it or not. Of course, $15,000 is chump change to Charley--she probably spends that much on a designer bag or two each season--so the financial loss is minimal to her. As the oldest sister Nova's probably grown weary of having to play babysitter for Ralph Angel and clean up his minor messes. But for a guy who'll rob a convenience store in broad daylight just to get a handful of bills, $15K probably feels like a unfathomable loss. I don't think that was a lesson he needed to learn just because his sisters are too busy doing other things.

Quote

I suspect the show is like, "See! This young black man is trying, y'all! But the system is against him!"

No, I don't see it that way. It's probably more like why RA would see it that way. Funny thing though, there probably really is an effort afoot to keep the farm from succeeding or at least not do anything to help it succeed.

Quote

I thought they inherited the land, not cash. 

Charley staked $100,000 in the project to plant and bring in the crop. That's what was going on when RA was at the bank. He's been given complete access to the money including debit/credit cards.

[ribboninthesky1]

3 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I agree that RA exercises bad judgment left and right but it's not as if his sisters don't know that. Sure, he should take responsibility for his mistakes and lower his pride enough to accept help when it's sincerely offered. However, it seems to me that he was almost set up to fail and it could easily have been avoided if they had put better structure in place to help him whether he wanted it or not. Of course, $15,000 is chump change to Charley--she probably spends that much on a designer bag or two each season--so the financial loss is minimal to her. As the oldest sister Nova's probably grown weary of having to play babysitter for Ralph Angel and clean up his minor messes. But for a guy who'll rob a convenience store in broad daylight just to get a handful of bills, $15K probably feels like a unfathomable loss. I don't think that was a lesson he needed to learn just because his sisters are too busy doing other things.

No, I don't see it that way. It's probably more like why RA would see it that way. Funny thing though, there probably really is an effort afoot to keep the farm from succeeding or at least not do anything to help it succeed.

Charley staked $100,000 in the project to plant and bring in the crop. That's what was going on when RA was at the bank. He's been given complete access to the money including debit/credit cards.

I agree that the farm is being set up to fail - that doesn't have anything to do with Ralph Angel, though.  He had one job - get the seed cane.  I don't hold what happened with the initial seller against him per se, or any of them, since none of them seem to know about running a farm, and could miss details.  But the very least he could have done was have Remy with him to check what he bought from his co-worker's cousin. Heck, even call him and have him on the phone.  None of that is on Nova or Charley, because they'd be mature enough to admit they don't know what the hell they're doing and consult with someone who does.  Or hell, he could have even stopped avoiding Charley's calls and talked to her - let her know he couldn't get the seed cane because they weren't registered with the state.  Part of being an adult is having the tough conversations. 

2 hours ago, plurie said:

It was my impression that the Bourdelons hadn't registered with the state, so the seller couldn't sell him the seed cane. Remy asked RA if he'd registered, and RA blew him off. All the seed cane for St. Joe's Parish had already been sold to the registered farmers.

Thanks for clarifying that - I thought the seller was in collusion with the man who wanted to buy the land, and that's why he refused to sell. 

I think Charley's biggest mistake was not listening to Remy and hiring a farm manager.  But then we'd have more scenes with RA whining how they don't trust him, and Vi trying to emotionally manipulate them into coddling him. I know what it's like to deal with untrustworthy family members, and have other family conjoling me into giving them umpteeth chances.   $15,000 may not be much to Charley now, but that was when the money was rolling in.  With Davis about to be dropped from the team, and a possible divorce looming, I don't think Charley wants to be wasting money unnecessarily, either. And that's not counting if ol' Goldie decides on a civil lawsuit, or her rape kit comes back with Davis' DNA and he goes to trial. 

[Dee]

I loved the many layers Dawn Gardner brought to Charley last night. Savvy Manager, Caring Sister, Flinty Negotiator, Shady Girlfriend, Wronged Wife, Fierce Mama Bear, Flirty Potential Divorcee. It was like watching a virtual one woman show.

Davis remains useless. There hasn't been a moment in the aftermath of the cheating scandal where I've believed he's been truly sorry. He just seems to want to gloss over everything as if nothing ever happened which is really gross.

I really felt for Micah. Stella's mom was a bitch with a capital c. I wonder how long before he jumps on board to moving back to La permanently. He can't be looking forward to staying in LA after another painfully public humiliation.

Remy is a jewel. I kind of hate how erratic he's being with the Bordelons though. Ralph Angel is way too mercurial a presence for him to be playing hot and cold with their family business.

Nova's story was hard to watch in the shadows of Oklahoma, Charlotte, etc. I'm well aware that illuminating the perils of criminal justice system is a pet project of Ava's, but the timing is fairly unsettling. That said, Rutina did a fantastic job. From the looks of things, her relationship with Calvin is about to get really rocky.

Vi and Hollywood are great. I found it quite refreshing how open she was about her emotional over reliance on him the past few weeks. I also loved that the unofficial black national anthem (Before I Let Go) underscored their scene.

Kofi Siriboe is a real find, but Ralph Angel is tiresome. I get he wants a fresh start and for his family to be proud of him, but if he can't admit when he's over his head then it's gonna be a long season. As was said by previous users, he's not a kid anymore so weekly temper tantrums aren't acceptable.

I loved Nova apologizing to Ralph Angel. It had to sting to see one of his sisters be overly invested in other prisoners while ignoring him.

Blue remains the cutest child in the universe.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Dee

[Keepitmoving]

That relationship that Nova has with Calvin is interesting. I don't know what's going on there; but I'd like to know since he has a wife and kids. He is going to her family funerals and she's going to his. I know I heard him say in the funeral episode that she went to his father's funeral. Did anyone else hear that? I could have sworn he said that in response to her not wanting to tell him the when/where of her father's funeral.

[NorthstarATL]

Now, at 15 I would have dropped my pants IN THAT OFFICE to prove that the pics were not of me. But Micah is obviously more self-possessed (or not as well-endowed?) than I was at that age, so he's settling for just being sad about his cheating girlfriend.

 I took it that the point of the episode was how difficult life is for black males, even when they have no culpability (the subjects of Nova's writing, Micah, and, presumably, Ralph Angel), and it was well delivered. I DO think RA messed up in not taking the help that was offered, and I also think that his co-worker, or at least the guy who the co-worker sent him to, knowingly screwed him. I hope they don't get away with it. The regulations, though, should have been checked. It was my understanding that some of THAT end, the more administrative, was going to be handled by the sisters, so not getting the seed on time wasn't all on RA.

[mrsbagnet]

2 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

That relationship that Nova has with Calvin is interesting. I don't know what's going on there; but I'd like to know since he has a wife and kids. He is going to her family funerals and she's going to his. I know I heard him say in the funeral episode that she went to his father's funeral. Did anyone else hear that? I could have sworn he said that in response to her not wanting to tell him the when/where of her father's funeral.

Yes, that was said during their conversation about her dad's funeral.

10 hours ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

At first, I didn't understand why Micah was more devastated about Stella cheating on him than being expelled.  Then I remembered he's a teenager, heh. 

That made me chuckle. Poor kid.

I, too, am exasperated with Ralph Angel. I haven't much cared for him since his self-righteous attitude with Blue's mom. I know he's probably been through rough times due to her addiction, but he wasn't exactly being his best self at the time (the robbery). I just hope they don't pair him with Blue's teacher. She can do better.

I was excited to see Roma Maffia as the defense attorney. I've always liked her and her fantabulous hair.

[ribboninthesky1]

12 hours ago, Dee said:

Remy is a jewel. I kind of hate how erratic he's being with the Bordelons though. Ralph Angel is way too mercurial a presence for him to be playing hot and cold with their family business.

I took it as Remy trying to respect family boundaries.  He's not family, and he seems to give advice mainly because Charley consults with him.  If Charley hadn't approached him, I suspect he would have kept his distance. He couldn't force Charley to hire a farm manager.  

So far, his advice seems sound, but Charley and Nova are trying to balance their careers and personal lives with running a farm, and it's not going to work.  I'm a lot more sympathetic to Charley because her career and personal life is seriously blurred at the moment, both of her siblings have gone off on her when she's tried to help, and IMO, she's rightly focused on her own family at the moment.    

[tennisgurl]

I know last week I complained about Micah being a TV Teen last week, but I am back on his side this week. I get where he is coming from now. He is desperate for his life to get back to normal, back to the life where he had loving parents in an ideal marriage, a cute girlfriend, lots of money, and everything was great. I just feel bad for him now. The girlfriend turned out to be rather meh, but she is 15. The mom has no excuse, she is just awful. 

I love Charlie. She just gets stuff DONE. She just perfectly combines poise and control, but is also extremely human. I wonder what the hooker wants. I figure either she is pregnant, and knows having Davis's baby is an even bigger pay day, or she actually was raped, and she wants justice. I am leaning towards pregnancy. 

Novas plot reminds of me of the most recent season of Orange is the New Black, with all the commentary on corruption in the prison system. Its interesting stuff, and I am glad people are talking about it more (its not exactly a fun topic, but its important), and I am glad they are actually tying it into Novas character and her relationship with her family. Does Nova feel guilty about how her brother struggled with the law? Does she not deal with her own issues, and just focuses on other peoples? Also, what in the world is up with her hot cop boyfriend? They seem to be a legit couple, but... he is still married with kids?  There has got to be an interesting backstory there. Also glad that Novas editor seems to be on her side. It does not have to be completely "Nova against the system all on her own" like a lot of these stories. She certainly has an uphill battle, and she is doing the heavy lifting, but its good that her boss seems to (maybe cautiously) have her back. 

Speaking of backstories, I want to know more about RAs backstory, and how he fell into a life of crime, and ended up having so many issues with challenge. I know that people from loving families can fall into a bad way, but I would love to know how. I do agree with others that RA had probably been spoiled a bit, being the youngest and the only boy. So now that he is an adult trying to get along, he makes bad choices and gets frustrated very quickly, and sometimes makes REALLY bad choices (robbing that store for, like three bucks, pulling a gun on those transport guys last week). He means well, but he has a while to go before he can really start running the farm. 

[Timetoread]

On ‎9‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 0:02 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Charley seems to think that throwing money at it is the answer to every problem. Looks like she's going to be learning a tough lesson.

Throwing money at a money problem is indeed the answer.  I rewatched the first episode and noticed something that I missed on the first viewing.  When her father indicated that he was struggling, she said she could send him some money.  He said something about her not having to send him a little something.  She said that it doesn't have to be "little", she'd send whatever it took to help him.  He shut it down.  It seems to me RA inherits this ridiculous trait from his father.  Ernest had an adult daughter who is a fixer but his pride stopped him from asking help from the people who would most want to offer it.

I'm also impressed that the show is touching on the class problem that happens inside of families.  It's something that I've experienced.  Often when one particular family member becomes financially successful, the rest of the family puts up a wall between them.  It's not that they think that they are better, it's that everybody THINKS that THEY THINK that they are better.  Charlie has not tried to lord over anybody because of her money.  But her siblings shut her out of just about ALL of the planning for their father's funeral and she wanted to contribute somehow.  Nova is proud and headstrong and runs the show at home, but she's not wealthy and it takes two credit cards to make a payment.  RA might as well be the dog insofar as what he can contribute.  Charlie just felt that while everything else was covered, she had no problem - only needed one card, that would be paid in full by the end of the month - dealing with the things that are large expenses.  Her was her father too.  I think that the lesson that these siblings are going to learn is how to lean on each other.  Charlie has money, but she is going through hell in her marriage.  It will help her to have her big sister care for her.  Give her what money cannot buy.  Nova, it seems, will have to learn that she is fallible and let her little sister help her in whatever way that she can.  RA needs to learn everything.  Can he even read?

21 hours ago, DearEvette said:

But I hated that she was blowing off RA.  She knows he was over his head.  And it broke my heart when RA called her out on her neglect of him when he was inside. 

I get the feeling that the story that we are not being told is that Ernest's parenting was not stellar.  Nova couldn't wait to leave.  Charlie was already gone - having been raised by her mother.  RA became a felon.  I can't wait to hear it.

18 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

However, it seems to me that he was almost set up to fail and it could easily have been avoided if they had put better structure in place to help him whether he wanted it or not. Of course, $15,000 is chump change to Charley--she probably spends that much on a designer bag or two each season--so the financial loss is minimal to her

I don't think he is being set up to fail.  I think he is failing because he is a failure.  Charlie prepared EVERYTHING.  The bank was ready with papers that only needed signatures.  He's got access to the account, but so do Charlie and Nova.  She is using Remy as her right hand and spy.  She didn't hire a farm manager mostly because she wants HIM to do it.  She trusts him and knows he will do a good job for her and in the memory of Ernest.  I think she fully expected RA to screw up, but she is trying to structure it the best that she can from across the country, a full time job, a kid, and a national scandal taking her time.  She even went to far as to fight with Nova about keeping an eye out on RA.  I have no doubts that the girls are going to fix this thing in time.  This bothers me because it is the females once again fixing the mess left by the males.  Nuff said about RA.  Perhaps he should try modeling.  But Ernest should have taken the time to either consult the kids about his will and his request that they keep the farm or leave them a farm that is not a burden. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

Throwing money at a money problem is indeed the answer

There's a saying that when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. It seems to me Charley's default action is to use money to fix everything. Sometimes the problem to be fixed isn't actually due to a lack of money and the money is just a distraction from the real issue.

[Timetoread]

Except that the father was in debt and not able to plant was exactly due to lack of money.  That said I guess I am tired of the trope that because someone has money that they are bad people who think that money solves all problems.  Money didn't keep her dad alive or her man at home.  She's got problems too and never claimed otherwise.  I thought it was mean how everyone spit her attempts to be helpful in her face as if she were dirty or somehow less than.  Like "since she has money, she doesn't actually need the love of her family." They shut her completely out of planning their father's funeral.  I guess rich people don't feel grief.

[colorbars]

Not gonna lie, I couldn't bring myself to feel too bad for Micah when he was crying about his girlfriend cheating on him, not after the way he got all pissy with Charley in the previous episode for not standing by her man. Though, granted, I'm not totally sure if he knows his father cheated, even if he didn't rape her, but still.

But Davis is still useless, and I don't buy he feels much remorse at all, and I'm also not convinced he didn't rape her. She sure looked drunk in that video, and I wouldn't be surprised if he thinks that just because he paid her, he doesn't need consent. If she doesn't want money, it could very well be that she genuinely wants justice.

Edited September 24, 2016 by colorbars

[riverheightsnancy]

Some random thoughts about the episode:

1) If a prostitute is hired for sex, and is paid (they always want the money first, right?), they show up to fulfill their end of the agreement, then how can it be rape? Even if she gets drunk, a business transaction has already been put in place, which she agreed to. I think that we will find out more as the story unfolds, there must be more to what happened, which makes it rape in her eyes. Perhaps she only agreed to sex with certain players, or a certain number of times, or certain ways and that was violated, therefore it is rape. I really hope they explore this in a deep way. I normally am 100% on the side of any person who says "no" to sex, and is then coerced or forced, which then constitutes sexual assault. However, when one is paid and willingly does this for a living (not talking about teenagers or people in sex trafficking rings who cannot get out but want to), I wonder what the rules are and how they are going to present that. 

2) Since Charley is paying to start the farm up, and they know that RA has to hold down that job for his parole, AND they already know that they are late in planting the crops, WHY in the hell try to start the farm this season? Why not prepare and do all the things necessary to start NEXT season and have a fantastic start? Get RA some training, it will allow for the equipment/seed to be purchased and prepared in the correct timeline and order, it gives RA time to settle in his job and prepare for next season. If money is NOT the issue (and Charely just threw $100,000 to this effort), why start when you are setting up to fail in a major way? They know that RA cannot be there as a full-time farmer at this time, then why put this extra pressure on him? RA doesn't know what he doesn't know yet. He is head-strong and naive. He needs time. Why not wait and prepare for next year? That would give everyone time to settle into what is happening. 

3) Blue remains a cutie. 

[Artsda]

I thought RA was supposed to know about farming? He seems clueless and unable to event buy seeds? Yet he threw the tantrum when the girls wanted to sell, saying he knew all about farming from his dad.

Great scene of Charley going into the doctor to be tested for everything, you rarely see that on dramas with cheating husbands. 

Why didn't Micah just say that wasn't him in the picture? 

The hooker doesn't want money or to silenced. Interesting, what does she want is the question.  If there is a rape kit, it would have had to occur fast, yet this time frame of the video/scandal seems longer.  Arent't they admitting to sex with the hooker anyways, the rape kit would do what then? They admitted to paying her and consensual sex. 

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

We do not recognize the concept that bodily autonomy is transferable. If you're having sex, and your partner says to stop, and you don't, or if they are legally unable to consent, you're raping them, case closed, even if you paid. If prostitution were legal, a case could be made that a prostitute who reneges on a client owes them $$, but as Davis and the other players paid for an illegal service, boo hoo if she took the money and ran. It's BECAUSE prostitution is illegal that sex workers are at greater risk for rape and sexual assault, because johns know that they can't go to the police without getting in trouble, and because the police will tell them, essentially, that if a guy paid it's not rape, and if they didn't, it's theft. 

Think how hard it is for women in general to get justice after being raped--sex workers have it even worse. Legalizing prostitution would go a long way towards protecting them, but that's a rant for another soapbox. Between all that and Goldie's refusal to take the bribe, I'm 200% convinced Davis raped her. 

[Empress1]

2 hours ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

We do not recognize the concept that bodily autonomy is transferable. If you're having sex, and your partner says to stop, and you don't, or if they are legally unable to consent, you're raping them, case closed, even if you paid. If prostitution were legal, a case could be made that a prostitute who reneges on a client owes them $$, but as Davis and the other players paid for an illegal service, boo hoo if she took the money and ran. It's BECAUSE prostitution is illegal that sex workers are at greater risk for rape and sexual assault, because johns know that they can't go to the police without getting in trouble, and because the police will tell them, essentially, that if a guy paid it's not rape, and if they didn't, it's theft. 

Think how hard it is for women in general to get justice after being raped--sex workers have it even worse. Legalizing prostitution would go a long way towards protecting them, but that's a rant for another soapbox. Between all that and Goldie's refusal to take the bribe, I'm 200% convinced Davis raped her. 

Exactly. The notion that you can't rape a prostitute is offensive and really damaging and dangerous to women and sex workers. You can cross a line with a sex worker the same way you can with any other person. 

If I recall correctly, wasn't the prostitute passed out when Davis carried her into the room? He slung her over his shoulder and I thought she was limp. If she was inebriated she can't consent.

[riverheightsnancy]

28 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Exactly. The notion that you can't rape a prostitute is offensive and really damaging and dangerous to women and sex workers. You can cross a line with a sex worker the same way you can with any other person. 

If I recall correctly, wasn't the prostitute passed out when Davis carried her into the room? He slung her over his shoulder and I thought she was limp. If she was inebriated she can't consent.

Yes, good points, but there ARE places in Nevada where it is legal and is legal in other parts of the world as well. I am not trying to be offensive and I certainly understand the concept that "no" means "no" and that sex workers get taken advantage of, but I was wondering about the technicalities IF it is legal and if the prostitute consented in the context of the show and how they are going to play out the story line. Where does it cross the line, besides for a statement of "no"?  I am not sure if they are going to explore these nuances which would be of interest, and instead go with the trite, she's pregnant. I had this thought that this is a girl that Davis has been seeing regularly and it is about more than just that night, but we will see in the story.

[Neurochick]

On September 22, 2016 at 8:12 PM, Dee said:

I really felt for Micah. Stella's mom was a bitch with a capital c. I wonder how long before he jumps on board to moving back to La permanently. He can't be looking forward to staying in LA after another painfully public humiliation.

That "mother" was awful, probably racist too.  Though at that age, I probably would have told my mother to fuck off.

 

On September 22, 2016 at 8:12 PM, Dee said:

Nova's story was hard to watch in the shadows of Oklahoma, Charlotte, etc. I'm well aware that illuminating the perils of criminal justice system is a pet project of Ava's, but the timing is fairly unsettling. That said, Rutina did a fantastic job. From the looks of things, her relationship with Calvin is about to get really rocky.

True,but the timing it always unsettling.  I say bring it on NOW.

 

21 hours ago, riverheightsnancy said:

1) If a prostitute is hired for sex, and is paid (they always want the money first, right?), they show up to fulfill their end of the agreement, then how can it be rape? Even if she gets drunk, a business transaction has already been put in place, which she agreed to. I think that we will find out more as the story unfolds, there must be more to what happened, which makes it rape in her eyes. Perhaps she only agreed to sex with certain players, or a certain number of times, or certain ways and that was violated, therefore it is rape. I really hope they explore this in a deep way. I normally am 100% on the side of any person who says "no" to sex, and is then coerced or forced, which then constitutes sexual assault. However, when one is paid and willingly does this for a living (not talking about teenagers or people in sex trafficking rings who cannot get out but want to), I wonder what the rules are and how they are going to present that. 

I have heard stories about prostitutes being raped.   One situation was that the woman agreed to straight, missionary sex, the man took her up to his hotel room, gave her a drink that knocked her out and had anal sex with her.  That is rape because though she was hired for sex, she didn't agree to be drugged and didn't agree to anal.  I once heard about a woman who thought she was having sex with one man, but then she was gang raped.  That's how it's rape.  It's like if you hire someone to clean your kitchen and then all of a sudden tell her you want her to clean your bathroom, she's going to charge you more; if you pull a gun on her and tell her if she doesn't clean your bathroom, she's dead, that's a crime.

[Timetoread]

23 hours ago, riverheightsnancy said:

2) Since Charley is paying to start the farm up, and they know that RA has to hold down that job for his parole, AND they already know that they are late in planting the crops, WHY in the hell try to start the farm this season? Why not prepare and do all the things necessary to start NEXT season and have a fantastic start? Get RA some training, it will allow for the equipment/seed to be purchased and prepared in the correct timeline and order, it gives RA time to settle in his job and prepare for next season. If money is NOT the issue (and Charely just threw $100,000 to this effort), why start when you are setting up to fail in a major way? They know that RA cannot be there as a full-time farmer at this time, then why put this extra pressure on him? RA doesn't know what he doesn't know yet. He is head-strong and naive. He needs time. Why not wait and prepare for next year? That would give everyone time to settle into what is happening. 

They don't know the conditions of his parole.  He lies to everybody about everything.  Both girls immediately said that they didn't want to run a farm, but RA pitched a fit and pouted and acted like his father taught him all he needs to know. So they put faith in their brother, very much because they WANT him to step up to the throne.   Also , Charley did her homework and scoped out the dirt that is done to black farmers and decided to invest in their legacy.  If made to work, that farm could make them power players in that county.  Charley and Nova both asked RA several times if he was in over his head and if could handle it and he protested and pouted and they stood down.  Charley is very business smart - she is working hard on plan B (namely Remy).  Nova, also extremely smart and dogged, will do what is right in the end.  The onus is on RA to grow up and stop lying rather than expect everybody to do him favors all the time.

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

Though at that age, I probably would have told my mother to fuck off.

If I did that, even as an adult, the episode would have ended with MY funeral and Aunt Vi rolling her eyes talking bout "That child lost her damn mind!"

[Neurochick]

23 minutes ago, Timetoread said:

If I did that, even as an adult, the episode would have ended with MY funeral and Aunt Vi rolling her eyes talking bout "That child lost her damn mind!"

And then your mom would be in jail, so what sense would that have made?  My mother wasn't one of those mothers who believed in nonsense like "the switch."

My point was that a teenage girl probably wouldn't have listened to her mother when mom said, "you can't see that boy."

Edited September 25, 2016 by Neurochick

[riverheightsnancy]

27 minutes ago, Timetoread said:

They don't know the conditions of his parole.  He lies to everybody about everything.  Both girls immediately said that they didn't want to run a farm, but RA pitched a fit and pouted and acted like his father taught him all he needs to know. So they put faith in their brother, very much because they WANT him to step up to the throne.   Also , Charley did her homework and scoped out the dirt that is done to black farmers and decided to invest in their legacy.  If made to work, that farm could make them power players in that county.  Charley and Nova both asked RA several times if he was in over his head and if could handle it and he protested and pouted and they stood down.  Charley is very business smart - she is working hard on plan B (namely Remy).  Nova, also extremely smart and dogged, will do what is right in the end.  The onus is on RA to grow up and stop lying rather than expect everybody to do him favors all the time.

Yes, you are right that RA didn't tell them the truth, which would have helped things a lot. I would really like to know more backstory on the three and maybe why they are the way they are, esp. RA.  Would the 800 acres make them a big farm there? I don't know what is big or not. Sounds big, but I am not sure in respect to farms. 

[Timetoread]

31 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

And then your mom would be in jail, so what sense would that have made?  My mother wasn't one of those mothers who believed in nonsense like "the switch."

Mine was.  And she would have been in jail feeling justified.  There are lots of differing parenting styles.  I won't bother arguing for one on merit - seems all present parties turned out alright.  My point was that there isn't ANY situation that would warrant that level of disrespect to MY mother, at any age. 

Edited September 25, 2016 by Timetoread

[Timetoread]

1 hour ago, riverheightsnancy said:

Yes, you are right that RA didn't tell them the truth, which would have helped things a lot. I would really like to know more backstory on the three and maybe why they are the way they are, esp. RA.  Would the 800 acres make them a big farm there? I don't know what is big or not. Sounds big, but I am not sure in respect to farms. 

You'll have to double check my numbers but I think 800 acres is a lot in those parts.  Evil Landry has, I think, 2,000 - land he's bought for pennies on the acre from poor black farmers.  The black farmers now have to lease the land that they farm.  The Bordelons, however, have 800 prime acres all their own and thanks to at least one of the siblings having the cash to keep it, it would make them one of the few able to stand up to Landry.

[candall]

On ‎9‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 6:27 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

I agree that RA exercises bad judgment left and right but it's not as if his sisters don't know that. Sure, he should take responsibility for his mistakes and lower his pride enough to accept help when it's sincerely offered. However, it seems to me that he was almost set up to fail and it could easily have been avoided if they had put better structure in place to help him whether he wanted it or not. Of course, $15,000 is chump change to Charley--she probably spends that much on a designer bag or two each season--so the financial loss is minimal to her. As the oldest sister Nova's probably grown weary of having to play babysitter for Ralph Angel and clean up his minor messes. But for a guy who'll rob a convenience store in broad daylight just to get a handful of bills, $15K probably feels like a unfathomable loss. I don't think that was a lesson he needed to learn just because his sisters are too busy doing other things.

Set up to fail?  How?  By giving him the respect of taking him at his word that he knows everything he needs to know about sugarcane farming? 

And you think the women should have arranged for some kind of 'co-decisionmaker' with the authority to override/prevent/correct RA's errors--and that would have been EASY?  The ongoing nature and force of the tantrums would have registered on the Richter Scale.

Nobody was trying to teach RA a $15k lesson--and who could have stopped him anyway?  Both the sister who wanted to double-check, and the sister who didn't, only got resentment and pissy fits in response.

Ralph Angel needs to grow up, stop acting out, accept responsibility . . . and maybe learn to say 'thanks' once in awhile. 

 

(The seed store guy didn't tell RA "Closed, come back tomorrow."  He opened back up, checked the books and presumably would have been willing to sell RA whatever pre-ordered setts had been declined by the registered St. Joe growers.  Thanks anyway?  Handsome irrigation guy saved RA from planting 70 acres of fungus.  OH SHIT, thanks?  Nova responded to his massive clusterfuck with warmth and compassion.  Thanks?  Nope:  You didn't visit me very much when I was in prison.)

[Neurochick]

5 hours ago, Timetoread said:

Mine was.  And she would have been in jail feeling justified.  There are lots of differing parenting styles.  I won't bother arguing for one on merit - seems all present parties turned out alright.  My point was that there isn't ANY situation that would warrant that level of disrespect to MY mother, at any age. 

True, but that teenage girl didn't seem like the obedient type, but her mother did seem more into appearances than anything.  

 

3 hours ago, candall said:

Set up to fail?  How?  By giving him the respect of taking him at his word that he knows everything he needs to know about sugarcane farming? 

And you think the women should have arranged for some kind of 'co-decisionmaker' with the authority to override/prevent/correct RA's errors--and that would have been EASY?  The ongoing nature and force of the tantrums would have registered on the Richter Scale.

Nobody was trying to teach RA a $15k lesson--and who could have stopped him anyway?  Both the sister who wanted to double-check, and the sister who didn't, only got resentment and pissy fits in response.

Ralph Angel needs to grow up, stop acting out, accept responsibility . . . and maybe learn to say 'thanks' once in awhile. 

 

The problem I see with RA is that he was too proud to admit he didn't know what to do.  Pride isn't always a good thing to have, especially when you don't know something and need help, RA didn't want to admit he needed help and that was why he failed.  If either of his sisters tried to tell him something, he would have accused them of not trusting him.

Ralph Angel needs to realize that he is a father and it's time to grow up.  If you don't know how to do something, you ask for help, especially when he had Remy willing to help him.

[Timetoread]

1 minute ago, Neurochick said:

True, but that teenage girl didn't seem like the obedient type, but her mother did seem more into appearances than anything.  

As much as I love this show, I kind of didn't like the way they did that part.  I was with the mother until she got pissy at the principal's office.  These kids have been together for awhile.  He'd been at her house many times.  She knew who he was.  His race wasn't a surprise to her.   I assumed her objection, and I agreed with her wholeheartedly, is that the media storm surrounding Davis' fall from grace would, AND DID, include collateral damage to his whole family.  People were posting obscenities about her 15 year old and if I were the mother, I would say that even though he is a nice boy, for your protection, you are no longer to see him.  I would have said as much to his mother who, let's face it, is one episode away from getting him out of Dodge as well.  It didn't have to culminate in some kiddie sex scandal involving tweets.  The reality is enough to make anybody with sense run.

BTW - I rewatched the pilot and reheard Charlie's backstory.  Apparently she and Davis met as Phi Beta Kappa scholars.  He then went on to be a baller.  Instead of becoming one of the Housewives of Wherever, she finished her schooling, got an MBA, began managing him and other team members.  She took his money and built an empire with merchandising and things.  She is no joke.  Which makes me quiver a bit because this is going to be one messy divorce.  He's a snake and won't lose willingly.  She's a fighter and won't lose either.  The whole thing will be for the world to see.  Poor Micah.  Lucky Remy!  LOL!

3 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

especially when he had Remy willing to help him.

Indeed.  Not just Remy but Nova and Charlie.  I get the feeling that when those two join forces, they can make the earth shake.  Their strengths really do highlight his weaknesses, don't they. I'd like to watch him evolve, rather than dissolve during the run of this series.

[Artsda]

Quote

True, but that teenage girl didn't seem like the obedient type, but her mother did seem more into appearances than anything.  

I think it's more this than the mother being racist. Based on the conversation in the daughter's bedroom she had no problem before the scandal with Michah stopping by and being there without her knowing. Now that there's a big scandal and his dad is negative in the press instead of the popular big time NBA player now she has a problem. 

Edited September 25, 2016 by Artsda

[candall]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

The problem I see with RA is that he was too proud to admit he didn't know what to do.  Pride isn't always a good thing to have, especially when you don't know something and need help, RA didn't want to admit he needed help and that was why he failed.  If either of his sisters tried to tell him something, he would have accused them of not trusting him.

Ralph Angel needs to realize that he is a father and it's time to grow up.  If you don't know how to do something, you ask for help, especially when he had Remy willing to help him.

We agree--you're much nicer about it than I am.  : )

[Dee]

Ralph Angel seems to resent his sisters because they wanted to live their own lives leaving him as a de facto steward of his family.

But every time they trust him to do something and he inevitably screws up, they're the ones who have to take the initiative to make things right. Nova apologized to him almost as soon as he walked through the door and he dodged Charley to the point where she had to call Remy to get an update about the farm.

As others have said upthread, I have yet to see him act remotely mature about anything. He blasts his sisters if they trust him & he screws up, then he blasts them if/when they attempt to assume control of the situation.  They truly can't win for losing with him.

Edited September 26, 2016 by Dee

[Emily Thrace]

I actually think it wasn't that Ralph Angel doesn't know anything about seed cane. He just didn't know about this particular fungus. As Remy showed you had to take apart the stalk to see it.  The fungus issue wasn't local and seems more like a case of Ralph Angel being out of the loop than anything else. He has been away he might not be up to date on everything. He bought a pig in poke basically and it bit him in the ass. I seriously hope he has some skills since he has been damn useless so far. Like I've said before Ralph Angel has good intention and that keeps him likeable for now but he needs to have the tools to back it up.