S08.E23: Reunion Part 3

[Former Nun]

10 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

How can you be sure that production didn't instruct Bethenny to not tell Luann right away?  It has been pretty well established that these shows tell the members of the cast when and where to meet and what to discuss during the taping.

I agree.  I'm not so sure that Production didn't drive Tom to the Regency after he and Luann had a drunken argument.

[zoeysmom]

9 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Exactly!  Thank you for proving my point.  

I wish they had pushed Dorinda to meet with the waiters on camera.  How interesting would THAT have been!  I would so much rather know what plan Tom had up his sleeve to cover his ass than the other things they decided to focus on.  

 

I know those are certainly the questions I would be more interested in hearing be discussed.  It's a shame they didn't devote more time to those issues.  If the story been treated more realistically, they would have been.  And it would have been much more interesting to listen to than what we got.

 

They stretched out the drama about the way Bethenny was going about telling Luann to three episodes. They didn't devote that much time to the core issue of Tom's philandering itself.   Let's not confuse the two issues - they are separate. 

I still don't at all accept the idea that Bethenny is in charge of a damn thing on this show.  She is not in the editing room.  She does not decide what gets stretched out over multiple episodes.  That is Bravos' call.  Not hers. 

I guess if there was to be a time for further discussion on the show it would have been once the bomb was dropped.  The reaction I expected was that Carole, Sonja and Ramona, and hopefully Bethenny would be lending some support or condolences for the hurt and humiliation Luann was feeling.  What makes these women entertaining to watch, with the exception of Jules and Carole, was how the have the uncanny ability to make it about themselves. 

As Dorinda put it there is a matter of the pictures.  That is the problem with the exaggerator, it was one no two hours of making out.  Information she was getting from someone who disliked Tom and called him a sham. Could Tom break the two hour assertion, most likely but no one really cared, because there was the photo.  What it became about is if Luann was going to go against the grain and forgive Tom?  Her forgiving Tom was somehow a character flaw.  I don't think it stretches the imagination that Luann and Tom probably had a serious talk about what was expected of each them in the future.  Maybe Luann reflected on her two "caught on tape" incidents where she had had a lot to drink and ended up in a position that still haunts her today.  Hopefully, there was some talk between Luann and Tom about his (their) drinking.   

The issues they could, would of or should of discussed would have been what?  Whether they could be around Tom again?   I wish Tom would have attended Bethenny's stupid finale party-I would have loved to hear him to tell Bethenny to stop talking about him (them).  Maybe Sonja would have said something to him along the lines of what she said to Jacques or Ramona could mention Mario cheating on her.

To some degree I think Luann let the others down by not loudly castigating Tom.  Her personality is such that she realizes it is hard to come back from some verbal barrage about someone.   I also don't think Luann wants to keep reliving humiliating moments, such as the verbal barrage she took in the Berkshires.  At some point I would think she would have unloaded her feelings on Dorinda or Sonja about what she endured.  Jules certainly wasn't there for her and she witnessed it.

There was a scene that bothered me doing the Reunion, almost as if we, Bravo need a great trailer.  Once Luann said she would want to know if there was another incident, it somehow lost its punch.  When Luann said she was in survivor mode at the finale, all of sudden, like almost on cue, and Andy being the one to pick up on it, Ramona faked, the "knows something".   It was creepy and not very believable. 

[zoeysmom]

10 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

How can you be sure that production didn't instruct Bethenny to not tell Luann right away?  It has been pretty well established that these shows tell the members of the cast when and where to meet and what to discuss during the taping.

It may very well have been the producer's decision to put off telling Luann in order to obtain as much footage building up to the big reveal as they could get. They seemed to find this angle of the story more interesting than the actual cheating itself so it's not a surprise they would have done everything possible to drag it out.

I think that is what everyone is saying that Bethenny worked with production to stretch the big moment.  By not telling Luann, the day after it happened they were guaranteed some moments at the engagement party and in Miami that would make the air, had they told Luann before the engagement party or before she went to Miami chances were excellent they would not get much from her.  We saw how uninteresting these women were on their Mohegan Sun adventure, the good trip without Luann with Bethenny ignoring Jules, the on the bus aerobics, Bethenny's headstand and the Ramona, Sonja dance scene in an empty nightclub venue.  Production needed something. 

I am trying to follow, what more could they have done with "the cheating itself"?  Are you suggesting they should have found the woman and interviewed her, had Ramona or someone try and draw a story out of her?  I mean it is kind of hard when you have a visible upset Luann puking and catching a plane to get much deeper.  Although I thought it kind of sucked that no one seemed to bother to see how Luann was doing or go with her to check into the hotel.  Kind of like pulling the rug out from under her and asking her to thank them.

[Almost 3000]

11 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Although I thought it kind of sucked that no one seemed to bother to see how Luann was doing or go with her to check into the hotel.  Kind of like pulling the rug out from under her and asking her to thank them.

Lu deserved at least a casserole...

[Celia Rubenstein]

24 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

I guess if there was to be a time for further discussion on the show it would have been once the bomb was dropped.  The reaction I expected was that Carole, Sonja and Ramona, and hopefully Bethenny would be lending some support or condolences for the hurt and humiliation Luann was feeling. 

I think that is what normal people would have done. But these women answer to a flock of producers who tell them where to stand and what to talk about.  And they know which direction the camera is pointed and they want to stay in front of if.  So we see them swarm Bethenny on her bed to console her.  Is there anybody here who would react that way? Would you be consoling the woman who just got the bad news or the woman who told her?  It was just so unrealistic. I can't believe that is anybody's natural inclination and this scene may be the best proof that the producers were behind everything that happened. 

 

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The issues they could, would of or should of discussed would have been what?  Whether they could be around Tom again?   I wish Tom would have attended Bethenny's stupid finale party-I would have loved to hear him to tell Bethenny to stop talking about him (them).  Maybe Sonja would have said something to him along the lines of what she said to Jacques or Ramona could mention Mario cheating on her.

You just answered the question you posed me in your other post about what they could have done with the cheating itself.  I think what you suggest would have made some great scenes.  I never even thought about the other women talking to Tom themselves.  I would have LOVED to see Sonja go in on Tom for what he did, that would have been AWESOME!  Or see Tom telling Bethenny to mind her own business and stick to kissing Mrs. Sheilds' husband and not worry about who he puts his lips on, lol. 

 

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There was a scene that bothered me doing the Reunion, almost as if we, Bravo need a great trailer.  Once Luann said she would want to know if there was another incident, it somehow lost its punch.  When Luann said she was in survivor mode at the finale, all of sudden, like almost on cue, and Andy being the one to pick up on it, Ramona faked, the "knows something".   It was creepy and not very believable. 

Ramona is no Bette Davis, that's for sure.  She couldn't pull off pretending she knew something about Tom any better than she could pull off making it look like she got laid in Miami. Both efforts made her look stupid and desperate to be relevant.  She's a shitty actress and she needs to give it up.

[zoeysmom]

Celia, did you find it odd, that after trumpeting Sonja's drunkenness and excluding her, that there was this strange erasing her behavior, because she gave up drinking?  I understand that Sonja seemed vulnerable and a little vicious towards Dorinda about the drugs but it seemed to me they let the whole story be known. 

[quaintirene]

On September 22, 2016 at 8:07 PM, Yours Truly said:

Pretty simple actually. Even for the simplest of simple.. 

Let's lay off each other maybe?  I don't think what she did was mean and I don't think she had any choice.  Production would have orchestrated that reveal and made sure it was Bethenny who delivered it.  No way anything that juicy happens off-camera. Also it allows LuAnn to make the most of her drama.  That pic would have surfaced anyway.  Doesn't help the show if it comes out in Page 6.  This way it gives LuAnn some footage and the ability to look wronged by both Tom and Beth.  Bonus.

From my pov this is a tv show.  Nothing is real.  

[Celia Rubenstein]

11 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Celia, did you find it odd, that after trumpeting Sonja's drunkenness and excluding her, that there was this strange erasing her behavior, because she gave up drinking?  I understand that Sonja seemed vulnerable and a little vicious towards Dorinda about the drugs but it seemed to me they let the whole story be known. 

Vulnerable is the right word for Sonja, and yes I think that has something to do with the willingness of people to forget about all her crazy shenanigans.  She could also be described as "harmless," too.  I can't think of one example of her being really nasty or cruel or doing real damage to anyone else. Even with the Dorinda drug thing ... it wasn't all that bad.  Probably because another word you could use to describe Sonja is "unreliable" and her accusations came across as emotional and not fact-based. You could file them away with her stories about partying with John-John in terms of believability.  I think that's why people just let her off the hook. And as they have said, for all her nuttiness she has a good heart and she is a good friend. 

I've said before I can't help but root for Sonja.  I know people want to hold that movie thing against her, but if I understand what happened, she has paid off her debt.  I don't think she ever set out to defraud anyone.  She was just ignorant and out of her league in the movie business.  It was just like her damn toaster.  She really believed that movie was going to happen despite all signs to the contrary.  She's nuts, it's true.  Still, I just can't help wishing that she gets her Lady Edith ending.  It would make me very happy.  And I think most of the cast would be very happy for her, too. .

[zoeysmom]

2 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Vulnerable is the right word for Sonja, and yes I think that has something to do with the willingness of people to forget about all her crazy shenanigans.  She could also be described as "harmless," too.  I can't think of one example of her being really nasty or cruel or doing real damage to anyone else. Even with the Dorinda drug thing ... it wasn't all that bad.  Probably because another word you could use to describe Sonja is "unreliable" and her accusations came across as emotional and not fact-based. You could file them away with her stories about partying with John-John in terms of believability.  I think that's why people just let her off the hook. And as they have said, for all her nuttiness she has a good heart and she is a good friend. 

I've said before I can't help but root for Sonja.  I know people want to hold that movie thing against her, but if I understand what happened, she has paid off her debt.  I don't think she ever set out to defraud anyone.  She was just ignorant and out of her league in the movie business.  It was just like her damn toaster.  She really believed that movie was going to happen despite all signs to the contrary.  She's nuts, it's true.  Still, I just can't help wishing that she gets her Lady Edith ending.  It would make me very happy.  And I think most of the cast would be very happy for her, too. .

I think Sonja is good TV, I can't really say anything about being a good friend, because on Sonja's twitter page the caption is that she really doesn't see this women except when filming.  I do not like Sonja and Ramona together.  I thought Ramona treated her horribly in T&C and I thought more often than not drinking Ramona saying she is embarrassed of Sonja was contemptible even by Ramona's standards. 

When the women were talking about who else but Tom, at the Reunion, Bethenny kept trying to get Luann to label Tom a liar and then it was you are calling your friend a liar.  Luann and Sonja aren't terribly Draconian or black and white.  I do think Sonja may have been taken home by Tom a time or two, or perhaps ended up at his house.  Luann's emotions about Sonja in the Berkshires seemed pretty real about worrying what would happen to Sonja when she "falls asleep" when drinking while out.  That was really the only time she teared up.  When Luann semi-snapped and said, "you don't remember how you get home," I took that to mean that perhaps Tom had shared with Luann some Sonja drinking stories.  The idiots on the other couch + Heather and Aviva have all said Sonja was unable to navigate her way home after a night of drinking and have all called her out  for bad behavior while drunk in public.  So Luann snapping was indicative to me the reason she believed Tom's rendition over Sonja's very inflated January and February stories came more from a place of not wanting to name call.  I don't think there had to be a definitive decision by Luann she handled it as best she could.  Butt out Bethenny, name caller and exaggerator.

I feel like watching Sonja sometimes she has had a life full of experiences and has been shutdown by Carole and Kristen and others about living in the past.  I noticed she is now saying she lives with an Italian count for six years.  It is not that I disbelieve Sonja I just think sometimes her way back machine has some memory issues.  I was delighted when Sonja took responsibility and beyond when asked about her ex's yacht versus Luann's friend's yacht.  I also thought her getting up to hug Luann and Luann hoping for Sonja being married and happy was real. 

I don't know how much longer Sonja can survive the show as she really has nothing going on, I am hoping for next season she has something viable going on and it does not include Ramona.  I was sad to see Sonja not taking the lead from the others about being excluded from the Berkshires, I did enjoy the dinner she had for Dorinda, John, Jules and Michael.  I thought it showed a very good side of her.  I don't think Ramona will be happy if Sonja finds someone, she can't help herself, it is either comparing her marriage to another's or vetting a guy to death.  I hope Sonja doesn't give in and hang out with Ramona just for screen time.  I can see Luann and Sonja melding next year and it may be the film lawsuit all over again with Tom blocking Sonja from the wedding.  There are consequences when you misrepresent.  Sonja just cannot though say stupid things such as, "I expected Tom to flirt with me," (at his engagement party), or I want Tom to announce we were special until he met Luann.  At some point you have to step aside.  I don't think Bethenny and Sonja are at all real, and I hope we are not sold a bill of goods on that one next year.

[motorcitymom65]

2 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

I think that is what everyone is saying that Bethenny worked with production to stretch the big moment.  By not telling Luann, the day after it happened they were guaranteed some moments at the engagement party and in Miami that would make the air, had they told Luann before the engagement party or before she went to Miami chances were excellent they would not get much from her.  We saw how uninteresting these women were on their Mohegan Sun adventure, the good trip without Luann with Bethenny ignoring Jules, the on the bus aerobics, Bethenny's headstand and the Ramona, Sonja dance scene in an empty nightclub venue.  Production needed something. 

I am trying to follow, what more could they have done with "the cheating itself"?  Are you suggesting they should have found the woman and interviewed her, had Ramona or someone try and draw a story out of her?  I mean it is kind of hard when you have a visible upset Luann puking and catching a plane to get much deeper.  Although I thought it kind of sucked that no one seemed to bother to see how Luann was doing or go with her to check into the hotel.  Kind of like pulling the rug out from under her and asking her to thank them.

My guess is that it would have been just as dramatic had Beth told Lu before the party.  What would Lu have done? Gone through with the party? Cancel it? Either way there would have been plenty of drama.  Bravo doesn't need for Beth - or anyone else - to stretch out the drama. Andy said that two of the three Berkshire's episodes lasted for about 3 hours in real time. They could have and would have stretched out the "Tom is a horndog" drama for as long as they wanted to, regardless of when Beth spilled the beans.  

[zoeysmom]

21 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

My guess is that it would have been just as dramatic had Beth told Lu before the party.  What would Lu have done? Gone through with the party? Cancel it? Either way there would have been plenty of drama.  Bravo doesn't need for Beth - or anyone else - to stretch out the drama. Andy said that two of the three Berkshire's episodes lasted for about 3 hours in real time. They could have and would have stretched out the "Tom is a horndog" drama for as long as they wanted to, regardless of when Beth spilled the beans.  

I think the trip that they should not have cancelled was Mexico.  The crew was scheduled, rooms booked, they didn't need Bethenny and they could have included Sonja. I think the women could have tasted tequila just fine on their own without Bethenny.  I am sure it would have ended up like the Berkshires last year, where Bethenny miraculously appeared, or when she left T&C early, she finds a way to make it happen.  That would have taken up some of the episodes.  Maybe they could have shown a caring Carole staying behind to tend to Bethenny or better yet Ramona camped on Bethenny's couch so shedid not feel alone.

Obviously there would have been no party and the ladies maybe with Luann or without her would have continued to Miami and done what I am not sure.   Let's see Palm Beach was all about Tom and Luann, either at the party or the rest of them talking about hom.  Miami Beach with the exception of the sand bar scenes was all about Tom and Luann.

[WireWrap]

3 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

How can you be sure that production didn't instruct Bethenny to not tell Luann right away?  It has been pretty well established that these shows tell the members of the cast when and where to meet and what to discuss during the taping.

It may very well have been the producer's decision to put off telling Luann in order to obtain as much footage building up to the big reveal as they could get. They seemed to find this angle of the story more interesting than the actual cheating itself so it's not a surprise they would have done everything possible to drag it out.

Nahhh, Production would have been happy to catch Luann fleeing to NYC to confront Tom, even if Tom/Luann didn't want to hash it out on camera, and they would have still had the others cackling about Luann/Tom back in Miami. Not telling Luann Friday was Bethenny decision. LOL

[glowbug]

5 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

How can you be sure that production didn't instruct Bethenny to not tell Luann right away?  It has been pretty well established that these shows tell the members of the cast when and where to meet and what to discuss during the taping.

It may very well have been the producer's decision to put off telling Luann in order to obtain as much footage building up to the big reveal as they could get. They seemed to find this angle of the story more interesting than the actual cheating itself so it's not a surprise they would have done everything possible to drag it out.

So what? This doesn't exonerate Bethenny, IMO. Even if production was urging her to wait and draw this out as long as possible, and tell Carole and Ramona first (doubtful), Bethenny still could have chosen to do the decent thing, which was tell Luann off camera and told only her. There was no gun to her head. She had a choice and she chose being a reality star over being a decent person. She's free to make that decision and I'm free to think she's a vile person because of it (as well as other behavior she's exhibited both on RHoNY and elsewhere). 

[Gam2]

Glow bug, I totally agree. B is a hateful, mean, bitter excuse for a real human being. I've said it before and I stick by that assessment. 

[Gam2]

I've been thinking about Sonja, in between watching SEC football (Go VOLS after beating Florida for the first time in forever!!) . Anyway, I have always had a soft spot for Sonja no matter how delusional she's been about her fashion line, NIgerian football team(?!) etc. I feel sorry for her but give her credit for trying.....something. I do hope she can find some kind of happiness that doesn't involve a rich daddy to support her. Although she may not be able to think beyond that. This whole situation with her just makes me sad because she does seem to be a really decent, kind person. Thoughts, anyone?

[Celia Rubenstein]

5 hours ago, glowbug said:

So what? This doesn't exonerate Bethenny, IMO. Even if production was urging her to wait and draw this out as long as possible, and tell Carole and Ramona first (doubtful), Bethenny still could have chosen to do the decent thing, which was tell Luann off camera and told only her. There was no gun to her head. She had a choice and she chose being a reality star over being a decent person. 

Yep. She could take her little apple and hand it right back to Bravo and say "no thanks."

So could Luann. 

Since neither of them seem willing to put their dignity above appearing on this show, I'd say they are both equal.

[zoeysmom]

28 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Yep. She could take her little apple and hand it right back to Bravo and say "no thanks."

So could Luann. 

Since neither of them seem willing to put their dignity above appearing on this show, I'd say they are both equal.

I don't think Luann went after anyone's dignity.  With Bethenny I think she has a sense of humor that preys on others' misfortune or quirks.  Luann wants things to be about her and happy things, Behtenny wants to go to situations in her life that aren't positive.  By that I mean child custody, fibroids, homelessness.  I think it is almost as if Bethenny wants to point out others should not be happy because there are things SHE doesn't like about them.  Now that Bethenny is on the happy tour maybe she can see that not everyone wants to dwell on another's imperfections.  Bethenny's big laugh pf the season was Ramona wearing macramé dresses.  Maybe she should not try to force it.

[Celia Rubenstein]

4 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

I don't think Luann went after anyone's dignity. 

I mean Luann is willing to sacrifice her OWN dignity by fighting tooth and nail to save her place on this shit show.  She throws her self respect on the pyre every day for a paycheck and the spotlight the same way the rest of them do.  

Edited September 25, 2016 by Celia Rubenstein

[HunterHunted]

3 hours ago, Gam2 said:

I've been thinking about Sonja, in between watching SEC football (Go VOLS after beating Florida for the first time in forever!!) . Anyway, I have always had a soft spot for Sonja no matter how delusional she's been about her fashion line, NIgerian football team(?!) etc. I feel sorry for her but give her credit for trying.....something. I do hope she can find some kind of happiness that doesn't involve a rich daddy to support her. Although she may not be able to think beyond that. This whole situation with her just makes me sad because she does seem to be a really decent, kind person. Thoughts, anyone?

Sonja's current stuation is one of the things that reaffirms that there is both a higher power and karma. Sonja with power and money is an asshole. She's in this situation because of the obnoxious shit she pulled. She launched her production company while things were unraveling with old man J.A. Morgan. Knowing full well that her marriage was disintegrating and headed towards divorce, she had J.A.'s name all over the documents for her production company and in advertising for her production company. He was not a part of her production company. She fraudulently listed his assets as assets of her production company. They were not. Her company was completely undercapitalized. And then when it became apparent that her production company didn't have the money she said it did, she tried to use friends of hers in the finance industry to bully the plaintiffs into not suing by claiming they would be blacklisted. There was a court finding that she committed fraud and it even awarded punitive damages.

That Sonja comes across as kind and decent, it's because her current predicament has forced her to be those things. And if her circumstances were to suddenly revert to her previous situation of wealth, power, and privilege, she'd forget every last sour forced lesson of humility that she's had to learn during the past decade.

[jaync]

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I admit I am confused why everyone thinks Bethenny has so much control over the show.

I didn't say anything about anybody's control. The point was how Bethany - with all her theatrics - made her involvement in the ordeal seem as big of a dilemma than the ordeal itself.

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Lol, the close up on the shaking hand, holding a glass of Skinny Girl brand vodka, may just be the official moment RHoNY jumped the shark.

That performance was as klassy as when she shook her tube socks in that guy's face. The ridiculousness was good for a laugh, though.

[motorcitymom65]

22 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

I think the trip that they should not have cancelled was Mexico.  The crew was scheduled, rooms booked, they didn't need Bethenny and they could have included Sonja. I think the women could have tasted tequila just fine on their own without Bethenny.  I am sure it would have ended up like the Berkshires last year, where Bethenny miraculously appeared, or when she left T&C early, she finds a way to make it happen.  That would have taken up some of the episodes.  Maybe they could have shown a caring Carole staying behind to tend to Bethenny or better yet Ramona camped on Bethenny's couch so shedid not feel alone.

Obviously there would have been no party and the ladies maybe with Luann or without her would have continued to Miami and done what I am not sure.   Let's see Palm Beach was all about Tom and Luann, either at the party or the rest of them talking about hom.  Miami Beach with the exception of the sand bar scenes was all about Tom and Luann.

But why obviously? The already had everything planned - friends and some family already there. Who is to say she would have cancelled the party? How much more interesting/dramatic would that party have been had Lu and the others learned the truth about just how much of an asshole Tom is? It would have been awesome. But even if the party didn't go on, it would have been dramatic. Lu making the choice to cancel, dealing with arrangments, etc. Folks can say that Beth dragging it out made it more dramatic, but I just disagree. I think that if it would have happened before the party (regardless of whether or not they had it), it would have been more emotional and dramatic for Lu. 

[zoeysmom]

14 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Sonja's current stuation is one of the things that reaffirms that there is both a higher power and karma. Sonja with power and money is an asshole. She's in this situation because of the obnoxious shit she pulled. She launched her production company while things were unraveling with old man J.A. Morgan. Knowing full well that her marriage was disintegrating and headed towards divorce, she had J.A.'s name all over the documents for her production company and in advertising for her production company. He was not a part of her production company. She fraudulently listed his assets as assets of her production company. They were not. Her company was completely undercapitalized. And then when it became apparent that her production company didn't have the money she said it did, she tried to use friends of hers in the finance industry to bully the plaintiffs into not suing by claiming they would be blacklisted. There was a court finding that she committed fraud and it even awarded punitive damages.

That Sonja comes across as kind and decent, it's because her current predicament has forced her to be those things. And if her circumstances were to suddenly revert to her previous situation of wealth, power, and privilege, she'd forget every last sour forced lesson of humility that she's had to learn during the past decade.

Sonja's strengths are when she is throwing the party.  She and Luann should be in charge of trips.  Dorinda being the perpetual Mary of Mary Tyler Moore has kind of run its course.  Bethenny just sucks at it and too much Skinnygirl.  Ramona is all about Ramona.  Sonja isn't particularly a graceful guest on trips not hosted by her, as she has been there and done it and so much better.  I am thinking Phuket since Sonja has something going on there-leave Bethenny at home since it would most likely interfere with her Bryn time.  Or maybe karma would have Bethenny land in a Thai prison, ala Bridget Jones The Edge of Reason.

I do believe Sonja without this job would be forced into a new reality.  I really don't see her landing another big fish, having a successful launch or even getting another reality show gig.  She had to take out a $3 million mortgage on Grey Gardens to pay her creditors, so she should definitely feel humbled.  It kind of bugged me when Bethenny kept saying one night-that was probably along the lines of a $30,000.00 hit to Sonja.

The fraud was pretty serious and Sonja's behavior was appalling. 

[motorcitymom65]

I've always thought Sonja would be better suited to be a "friend of".  

[zoeysmom]

9 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I've always thought Sonja would be better suited to be a "friend of".  

Sonja was pretty much a friend of this year.  She had her birthday party, some scenes with Luann and the hostess attended the dry cleaner's party.  Second half she was a bit more involved-but no storyline for her.  I don't consider her fantasy life with Tom a real storyline.

I figure next year she better go big or go home.

[QuinnM]

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I've always thought Sonja would be better suited to be a "friend of".  

I have no reason to believe this but maybe Mexico was canceled because someone couldn't leave the country.  If you have an outstanding judgement it can be a term of the payment plan that you don't leave the country.  Just sayin'.

[WireWrap]

2 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

I have no reason to believe this but maybe Mexico was canceled because someone couldn't leave the country.  If you have an outstanding judgement it can be a term of the payment plan that you don't leave the country.  Just sayin'.

Sonja went to Europe last summer and again this summer, so I don't think that is an issue for her.

[breezy424]

Bottom line for me is that Beth should have told Lu when Lu arrived in Miami.  Not two days later, after she told Carole and Ro who told Sonja.  That was cruel no matter how many excuses or 'spins' Beth tries to give.

And why did Beth need to throw shade about Tom's 'supposed' financial situation?  Another proof IMO of this person's cut throat personality.  This was ALL about getting Lu.  It was the next chapter of the Berkshires.  Beth can't let go.  Now she's on the divorce tour.  Who is going to be the next target because Beth lives for a target.

[zoeysmom]

9 hours ago, breezy424 said:

Bottom line for me is that Beth should have told Lu when Lu arrived in Miami.  Not two days later, after she told Carole and Ro who told Sonja.  That was cruel no matter how many excuses or 'spins' Beth tries to give.

And why did Beth need to throw shade about Tom's 'supposed' financial situation?  Another proof IMO of this person's cut throat personality.  This was ALL about getting Lu.  It was the next chapter of the Berkshires.  Beth can't let go.  Now she's on the divorce tour.  Who is going to be the next target because Beth lives for a target.

I noticed Ramona is now declaring her divorce is final.  Tag on. #noonecares#beenoverforayear.  The divorce tour was stopped in its tracks with the big divorce hitting the news "Brad and Angelina".  So it is kind of launch went up and crashed back to earth.  Back to the drawing board.

Always amazing to me how Bethenny can use secondhand information to throw darts but comes totally unraveled when the same is cast at her.  I think it was a cold shot to bring up Tom's finances.  As if Luann could not get a man who was financially sound because Bethenny can't seem to land an available man who is a billionaire.  Maybe it says more about Bethenny than Tom and Luann. 

[Jel]

I thought Bethenny was saying that because she was wondering (rightly or wrongly) whether Tom's intentions were good (given that she knew he had been making out with someone else at the Regency). 

If the people in the situations were reversed, and Beth was in the Lu situation, would there be as much emphasis on the manner in which the news was delivered? How would Bravo have handled that one I wonder?

[Yours Truly]

Just cause..

So I hadn't seen the reunion part 3 in it's entirety til last night. Every time it was on I got pulled away and only caught pieces in between distractions. It was in the background and I would snatch a few minutes here and there on the couch during multiple showings. That added up to most of it in sessions. ( I just moved into new apt so I was moving from room to room but had my trusty Bravo on in the background while I was unpacking). Anyhoo, last night I was able to sit on the couch and watch it all the way through uninterrupted.

What I caught,

Andy and Lu talking about Tom (what else?) and him asking Lu something starting off with the word cheated and Lu stuttering a tad bit over the term and rephrasing it as betrayal.... This after she's already been rather humble and regretful over some of her reactions and looking obviously drained over discussing it. And Beth chiming in, interrupting Andy, challenging Lu's resistant to the term cheating saying "that IS cheating tho" (paraphrased) and the camera cutting to Lu with a nod mouthing "yes" to Beth while listening to Andy finish his question. It's moments like these that make me more on Lu's side cause even tho her initial reactions are emotionally based and a lot of it is about saving face and not having the brutal side of the truth be front and center after it all settles down and she's processed it you can see that she understands the intensity of her reactions and how it played into whatever discord is surrounding them. She doesn't cowtow but she does have reflective moments where she understands why she wasn't received well and she'll give an inch while protecting the mile she knows you're going to try and take from her and I commend her for that.

Now Beth, Anyone else want to slap Beth? Like seriously? Like at this point there is like maybe 10 minutes left in the reunion, they gone over everything ad nauseum and yet Beth still wants to state for the record that the term Andy used is correct and can't allow Lu to use the term betrayed. Cause, why? That's the problem I have. What's wrong with just letting it go? Why the need to still challenge? Like they are in a court of law that it can't be anywhere on the record that what Tom did was anything less than cheat? I guess what got to me was that it was finally coming to an end. Ya know, it's been dissected discussed disrespected to the moon and back and yet Beth is still blurting shit out. That's the type of comment that starts the rollercoaster ride up all over again. I just can't with her. 

Where Lu will flail about clumsily trying her best to make light of something so that it doesn't become some delicious dessert for the others to savor, Beth will try to snatch away your ability to control any narrative about your own life. I get being on the show means things get brought up, discussed, gossiped about all that but Beth never wants to leave control where it belongs and that pisses me the fuck off.

Edited September 26, 2016 by Yours Truly

[WireWrap]

11 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Just cause..

So I hadn't seen the reunion part 3 in it's entirety til last night. Every time it was on I got pulled away and only caught pieces in between distractions. It was in the background and I would snatch a few minutes here and there on the couch during multiple showings. That added up to most of it in sessions. ( I just moved into new apt so I was moving from room to room but had my trusty Bravo on in the background while I was unpacking). Anyhoo, last night I was able to sit on the couch and watch it all the way through uninterrupted.

What I caught,

Andy and Lu talking about Tom (what else?) and him asking Lu something starting off with the word cheated and Lu stuttering a tad bit over the term and rephrasing it as betrayal.... This after she's already been rather humble and regretful over some of her reactions and looking obviously drained over discussing it. And Beth chiming in, interrupting Andy, challenging Lu's resistant to the term cheating saying "that IS cheating tho" (paraphrased) and the camera cutting to Lu with a nod mouthing "yes" to Beth while listening to Andy finish his question. It's moments like these that make me more on Lu's side cause even tho her initial reactions are emotionally based and a lot of it is about saving face and not having the brutal side of the truth be front and center after it all settles down and she's processed it you can see that she understands the intensity of her reactions and how it played into whatever discord is surrounding them. She doesn't cowtow but she does have reflective moments where she understands why she wasn't received well and she'll give an inch while protecting the mile she knows you're going to try and take from her and I commend her for that.

Now Beth, Anyone else want to slap Beth? Like seriously? Like at this point there is like maybe 10 minutes left in the reunion, they gone over everything ad nauseum and yet Beth still wants to state for the record that the term Andy used is correct and can't allow Lu to use the term betrayed. Cause, why? That's the problem I have. What's wrong with just letting it go? Why the need to still challenge? Like they are in a court of law that it can't be anywhere on the record that what Tom did was anything less than cheat? I guess what got to me was that it was finally coming to an end. Ya know, it's been dissected discussed disrespected to the moon and back and yet Beth is still blurting shit out. That's the type of comment that starts the rollercoaster ride up all over again. I just can't with her. 

Where Lu will flail about clumsily trying her best to make light of something so that it doesn't become some delicious dessert for the others to savor, Beth will try to snatch away your ability to control any narrative about your own life. I get being on the show means things get brought up, discussed, gossiped about all that but Beth never wants to leave control where it belongs and that pisses me the fuck off.

Simple, it is simply that no one is allowed to have an opinion/thought/belief about their own life that differs from Bethenny's opinions/thoughts/beliefs about their lives. She feels that she is the final authority about everyone/everything period.

[Yours Truly]

7 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Simple, it is simply that no one is allowed to have an opinion/thought/belief about their own life that differs from Bethenny's opinions/thoughts/beliefs about their lives. She feels that she is the final authority about everyone/everything period.

Nicely put!

And completely accurate.

[Lisin]

OK gang, we're getting to that point, 13 pages in, where we mods want to tell you to please, please, please remember that everyone is allowed to like who they like, and hate who they hate, and you (any one of you) are allowed to disagree with that. What we don't need are people continuing to argue a point that has been made over and over again. Additionally, there is no "winning" here. People who like X and hate Y are likely not going to change that opinion any time soon so please everyone remember that. You don't have to prove anyone wrong. There is no wrong here. Opinions are not facts. No one is right and no one is wrong. And please remember:

WE MADE IT NICE for you!

So, if no one can behave themselves then you'll go home! 

In other words:

[Almost 3000]

Who knew Dorinda was a Previously TV Mod?!  ;^)

ETA: Cool

Edited September 26, 2016 by Almost 3000

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, Jel said:

I thought Bethenny was saying that because she was wondering (rightly or wrongly) whether Tom's intentions were good (given that she knew he had been making out with someone else at the Regency). 

If the people in the situations were reversed, and Beth was in the Lu situation, would there be as much emphasis on the manner in which the news was delivered? How would Bravo have handled that one I wonder?

Before Tom made out at the Regency Bethenny apparently was engaging in off camera talk about Tom and his dating wealthy UES women.  The kiss didn't come with a disclaimer that Tom makes the women pay for his company.  That was previous knowledge.  She obviously was saying it to make both Tom and Luann look bad.  It is her opinion about the guy but going back to last season and Luann and Ramona having an off camera discussion about John, keep it off camera.  If it were something big such as learning Luann was being asked to invest or sign for a loan Tom's company then it would be relevant.  The way presented it was idle gossip.

I believe production was a big part of the bad delivery.  Some production idiot thought it would be all about, "would you want to know?", instead of how you find out.  Bethenny called production first, not Tom or Luann so I do think she wanted to make a big production out of it.  Bethenny did give more than a yes or no answer her thoughts were she felt like she could nip this relationship she didn't approve of in the bud.  She said it was okay in a twenty five year relationship to have a couple of affairs earlier in the season.  I don't think she would have done the same thing to Carole and Adam or Mario and Ramona (had they been together) but do think she would have done it to John and Dorinda or Michael and Jules.

Don't think Luann would have done the bomb drop in the same manner.  I think she would have told someone else and let them deliver the news.  Not because she is a bigger or better person just because she had been down the road before and knew what it felt like.  I don't find Luann all that deep but I don't think she handles blowback well. 

After the big reveal, it became about Luann's reactions and actions not be satisfactory to Bethenny's standards.  I don't think Bethenny gets or approves of Luann's relationship and apparent friendship with The Count or Jacques because it doesn't work that way for her with Jason.  Now that she is involved with married man she is claiming all is cool between she and Dennis and his wife.  Sometimes it is all about settling.  I got the impression from Luann when she learned of Tom and the kissing, she had two thoughts the first, how much further did it go?  And the second, how humiliating and I don't want my happiness to end.  Where with Bethenny I think she would have been thinking I want to annihilate the bastard for the betrayal. Neither women had a wrong reaction, it is just that the one in the situation was going to be the only one making the decision about the future of Tom and Luann.

[jaync]

Quote

Bottom line for me is that Beth should have told Lu when Lu arrived in Miami.  Not two days later, after she told Carole and Ro who told Sonja. 

Don't forget she had also told her friend, and she would've told Tom as well if he had answered the phone.

Quote

And why did Beth need to throw shade about Tom's 'supposed' financial situation? 

Because that's how she measures a person's worth.

[Otherkate]

2 hours ago, Lisin said:

OK gang, we're getting to that point, 13 pages in, where we mods want to tell you to please, please, please remember that everyone is allowed to like who they like, and hate who they hate, and you (any one of you) are allowed to disagree with that. What we don't need are people continuing to argue a point that has been made over and over again. Additionally, there is no "winning" here. People who like X and hate Y are likely not going to change that opinion any time soon so please everyone remember that. You don't have to prove anyone wrong. There is no wrong here. Opinions are not facts. No one is right and no one is wrong. And please remember:

WE MADE IT NICE for you!

So, if no one can behave themselves then you'll go home! 

In other words:

Gif perfection right here. *Slow clap*

Edited September 26, 2016 by Otherkate

[Former Nun]

Sometimes on these forums (any/all of them), I just want to make a one word comment...correcting someone's grammar.  I do it aloud to the television.  I really want to do it here.  Today's word, "her."

[ButterQueen]

So, I didn't bother to watch part 3 yet.  I just don't care.

Where do we talk about who will survive for next season?  I hope they keep Lu, Dorinda, and Sonja.

[breezy424]

5 hours ago, Former Nun said:

Sometimes on these forums (any/all of them), I just want to make a one word comment...correcting someone's grammar.  I do it aloud to the television.  I really want to do it here.  Today's word, "her."

You need to let it go on the forums.  I think most people, including myself, do not write their posts with the same consideration as they would an essay for publication or school, or a business correspondence.  I understand how you have the urge to do that, however,  most times posters aren't going over what they written that intensely, or, at all.  It's common here for a poster to leave out a word, use the wrong tense or be grammatically incorrect.  I do it myself at times.  My writing here is quite different from my 'real' world writing.

[HunterHunted]

On 9/24/2016 at 2:32 PM, WireWrap said:

Nahhh, Production would have been happy to catch Luann fleeing to NYC to confront Tom, even if Tom/Luann didn't want to hash it out on camera, and they would have still had the others cackling about Luann/Tom back in Miami. Not telling Luann Friday was Bethenny decision. LOL

I disagree. If Lu and Tom don't agree to talk about the kiss on camera, then all production can shoot is Lu's ride to the airport and her ride from the airport back to New York. We basically got that as Lu was checking into the new hotel. It wasn't exactly compelling stuff. And they already had the footage of the other women gossiping about it from Friday. I think that for production, the reveal to Lu was the money shot. And I they wanted it as late as possible on the trip to build the anxiety. I actually think they were hoping that Lu would say something condescending to Bethenny about Bethenny's failed marriage and that Bethenny would blurt it out in front of everyone. They could have cobbled something together with Bethenny telling Lu on Friday, but it wouldn't have been their preference.

I think Bethenny is fixated on Tom looking for women with money because that was the thing that she and Jason were battling about in court. They had a prenup. After the marriage, baby, and Skinny Girl acquisition, they renegotiated to give him more. But he was in court asking for more than either agreement. It's clear that it pissed Bethenny off and cemented in her mind that he was a gold-digger. She's basically projecting.

[WireWrap]

2 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

I disagree. If Lu and Tom don't agree to talk about the kiss on camera, then all production can shoot is Lu's ride to the airport and her ride from the airport back to New York. We basically got that as Lu was checking into the new hotel. It wasn't exactly compelling stuff. And they already had the footage of the other women gossiping about it from Friday. I think that for production, the reveal to Lu was the money shot. And I they wanted it as late as possible on the trip to build the anxiety. I actually think they were hoping that Lu would say something condescending to Bethenny about Bethenny's failed marriage and that Bethenny would blurt it out in front of everyone. They could have cobbled something together with Bethenny telling Lu on Friday, but it wouldn't have been their preference.

I think Bethenny is fixated on Tom looking for women with money because that was the thing that she and Jason were battling about in court. They had a prenup. After the marriage, baby, and Skinny Girl acquisition, they renegotiated to give him more. But he was in court asking for more than either agreement. It's clear that it pissed Bethenny off and cemented in her mind that he was a gold-digger. She's basically projecting.

They would still have hours of the rest of them cackling about Tom/cheating/Luann had Bethenny told her Friday and she left. It was Bethenny's decision to hold off telling her, production does not force the women when tell/not tell another something, it is up to them.

We don't know what Jason asked for in the divorce because there was/is a gag order and IMO, Bethenny is not trustworthy in the least.

[zoeysmom]

22 hours ago, ButterQueen said:

So, I didn't bother to watch part 3 yet.  I just don't care.

Where do we talk about who will survive for next season?  I hope they keep Lu, Dorinda, and Sonja.

There was a poll questions -who should stay and who should go designed for comments.

In the meantime here is Ramona making her pitch for Season 9 to Andy.  She claims she knows something about Tom.  It seems Luann asked to know-but Ramona wants to save it for another day.  http://www.bravotv.com/the-daily-dish/ramona-singer-really-does-know-something-about-luann-de-lesseps-fiance

I am really hating Andy sucking up to that witch Ramona.  BLECCHHHHHH 

[Gam2]

Oh please, Ramona doesn't know a thing about Tom or anyone else. She's just trying to stay on the show. She has no story, no interesting life, nothing. Go away, Romoaner. We're not interested in you anymore. BTW, buy some clothes that actually fit your strange body and lose the extensions. You're too old for those.

[Celia Rubenstein]

I find it hard to believe that if Ramona really knew anything about Tom she would not have spit it out at the reunion.  She is crafty and calculating, but I don't think she has the self control to sit on anything big for very long.  And (sadly) I don't think her apple is so in jeopardy that she would feel the need to hold onto anything she did know as a bargaining chip to save her spot.  She's too much of a staple on the show, and if she had any tea, I think she would have spilled it.  I think this is just typical Bravo hype about nothing.

[zoeysmom]

13 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

I find it hard to believe that if Ramona really knew anything about Tom she would not have spit it out at the reunion.  She is crafty and calculating, but I don't think she has the self control to sit on anything big for very long.  And (sadly) I don't think her apple is so in jeopardy that she would feel the need to hold onto anything she did know as a bargaining chip to save her spot.  She's too much of a staple on the show, and if she had any tea, I think she would have spilled it.  I think this is just typical Bravo hype about nothing.

At the Reunion Luann said she wanted to know so by Ramona not spilling, she is not being a good friend or friend of any kind.  I don't think Ramona has a lot to bring to the show any longer.  I do think when they negotiate they have to come up with something Ramona has nothing to offer.  Sonja wants nothing to do with her, she can check on Bethenny everyday, Luann has no desire to be around her and Carole just isn't that into Ramona.  Losing Ramona would be like going on a gluten free diet-there are other people out there.  Ramona wanted to be the bomb dropper all season and create drama where there was none and it fell flat.  Talking about her breasts and latest beauty regime is just boring.

[zoeysmom]

Luann is on Wendy Williams today.  Let's see if she is asked about Ramona and her information about Tom.

[Jel]

"Losing Ramona would be like going on a gluten free diet" Lol That's perfect, zoeysmom: at the very least, you'd get less empty calories; at best, it might clear up your headaches and nausea.

[film noire]

On 9/26/2016 at 11:47 PM, breezy424 said:

 I think most people, including myself, do not write their posts with the same consideration as they would an essay for publication or school, or a business correspondence.  

When I post here,  I  imagine all of us at our phones or computers (sidebar: visualize a Nora Ephron montage; soft focus, golden light. Many of us have our heads thrown back -- lost in carefree laughter -- yet clearly intelligent and capable of dissecting foreign policy at the drop of a hat should anyone try to smart-shame us) and all of us are writing posts (heads not thrown back for that part of the montage, because that would look CRAZY -- I hear that's how they do it in the Jeopardy forum)  and maybe editing an egregious error along the way-- but for the most part, all of us not writing as if for the ages because we're too busy reading (in between drinking cocktails and crank calling Sonja about Prince Albert of Monaco in a can on her yacht....wait-- you guys do that too, right?)

Quote

Lu deserved at least a casserole...

LOL  (I believe it was Darwin who said "cross pollination makes every housewife line stronger":)

Edited September 28, 2016 by film noire
or maybe that was the mendel dude

[film noire]

On 9/26/2016 at 0:07 PM, Lisin said:

OK gang, we're getting to that point, 13 pages in, where we mods want to tell you to please, please, please remember that everyone is allowed to like who they like, and hate who they hate, and you (any one of you) are allowed to disagree with that. What we don't need are people continuing to argue a point that has been made over and over again. Additionally, there is no "winning" here. People who like X and hate Y are likely not going to change that opinion any time soon so please everyone remember that. You don't have to prove anyone wrong. There is no wrong here. Opinions are not facts. No one is right and no one is wrong. And please remember:

WE MADE IT NICE for you!

So, if no one can behave themselves then you'll go home! 

In other words:

Best mod note ever -- so, so funny : )