Lorelai Gilmore: The 10(+) Things I Hate About You

[shron17]

24 minutes ago, Smad said:

Like when she complains about becoming a crazy, single cat lady and comparing that to Babette.

I find it amusing how Rory called her out on that one:

Quote

RORY: Are you yelling at me or the cat?
LORELAI: The cat. I think he flipped me off with his tail. I'm Babette.
RORY: Babette's not single.
LORELAI: Whose side are you on? Circle the wagons.

At her worst Lorelai acts like a spoiled teenager.  In many ways she's grown up since then but she seems to regress whenever things don't go her way.
 

[junienmomo]

1 hour ago, shron17 said:

At her worst Lorelai acts like a spoiled teenager.  In many ways she's grown up since then but she seems to regress whenever things don't go her way.
 

It wasn't at her worst, Lorelai was mostly a spoiled teenager. Even spoiled teenagers can be nice when things do go their way. Think about how often she replied or started a conversation with a sarcastic remark. Pretty often. 

Now compare her to Jess. Not spoiled because he was privileged, but spoiled because he was neglected. When he didn't get his way, the chip on his shoulder took precedence. Yet when he was normal, he was still trying to be cooler or more clever than others. 

I would guess that the percentage of Jess using snarky remarks when his lips are moving is similar to Lorelai's.

2 hours ago, Smad said:

Lorelai was raised with Gilmore manners. Which means that good manners were reserved only for the rich and fancy. Anyone else was treated like filth. And while Lorelai doesn't exibit that many Emily/Richard manners, she clearly more often than not shows the entitlement that comes with being raised in the world of the priviledged. See the above post for detailed Emily Gilmore manners examples. However Lorelai can get on occassion very Emily-esque, the difference is she wouldn't do it to someone's face. Whether that's making fun of the overweight faceless woman with the bunny slippers and big underwear she would never say that Sookie's face even though that could be her. Or when she makes fun of the townspeople. Like when she complains about becoming a crazy, single cat lady and comparing that to Babette.

I was raised with the manners of the common people which means I would have asked Sookie first if it's ok to give the tickets away. Because that's the polite thing to do. Lorelai rarely ever goes to that level of manners because she feels entitled to do whatever she wants.

Richard was raised with Gilmore manners, thanks to Trix. Emily fit him to a T. Yet they were insulted when the Huntzbergers exhibited similar behaviors. 

[shron17]

23 minutes ago, junienmomo said:

It wasn't at her worst, Lorelai was mostly a spoiled teenager. Even spoiled teenagers can be nice when things do go their way.

I disagree.  Spoiled teenagers can't raise children on their own, create a career out of nothing, buy their own house or start a successful business.

[junienmomo]

2 hours ago, shron17 said:

I disagree.  Spoiled teenagers can't raise children on their own, create a career out of nothing, buy their own house or start a successful business.

Raising a child on her own is a bag full of questions and discrepancies. Rory was a good kid, but Lorelai ran the show, so it always went her way. She didn't let any grandparent or Rory's father have an influence. There was the business about the door was always open to Christopher, but even though he was lusting after Lorelai he never showed up once in 15 years.

Add to that the major issues with paying for child care while she was working on a maid's wage. Don't forget the fact that she was Mia's pet, with the implication that she got privileges including the potting shed and food for free. 

If you're the boss' pet, and it's a small staff, it's not a surprise that she would get promotions. I'm NOT denying she worked hard, but the boss doted on her like a grandparent. 

Buy her own house? The pre-series money was never resolved with respect to the house purchase, but it was a sucky buy, with the work needing to be done. We do have evidence of her not saving money and accepting help from others without responding in kind. 

Starting a successful business? She fired the designer because she knew Emily. She insisted on having luxury features like horses when she didn't have enough money to pay for the remodeling. Granted, she didn't throw a teenage temper tantrum when she almost bankrupted herself and Sookie, but I'm guessing it was because she was exhausted. 

She wasn't always behaving as a spoiled teenager, but it was not a rare occurrence. It was a big and negative part of her everyday persona.

[TomServo]

Quote

One thing the show was consistent and true to life with, was the reality that fancy schools like Chilton and Yale are pretty inaccessible to people without wealthy families like Lane, Dean, Jess etc. Marty is the only significant character from a non-Gilmore-esque background we see at Yale, and it's clear he's working himself to the bone to afford it

Yes and no.  Getting in is the hard part, and the Gilmore-esques do have a head start from that perspective.  But Ivy league schools are not funded the same way as most colleges and can afford to work with students on the tuition and fees because of their huge endowments.  None of the ivies offer performance-based scholarships because they sort people for success and achievement just to get in the door.  All their scholarships are based on need--they calculate a financial aid package that takes family size, income, etc. into account.  For some students it actually ends up being more financially manageable for them to attend one of these schools than it would be for them to attend a flagship public school, particularly in instances where the family has multiple children attending universities at the same time.  I remember back in college, one of my professors was in the middle of figuring out how to make herself look as poor as possible because one of her children had fallen in love with Princeton.  Marty is not from a "write a check for Yale" level of wealth, but it appears his family was also not poor enough for him to qualify for a full ride all four years.

So that's why we saw Lorelai being shocked when she found out that her recent windfall had prevented Rory from getting a good financial aid package.  She assumed that Rory wouldn't have to pay much because Lorelai viewed herself as broke.  (again, you'd think after the mess with Chilton and the fact that Lorelai's business degree required accounting classes that she should have been aware of this)

Edited October 8, 2016 by TomServo
Apparently I forgot how to quote properly

[ChlcGirl]

6 hours ago, TomServo said:

Yes and no.  Getting in is the hard part, and the Gilmore-esques do have a head start from that perspective.  But Ivy league schools are not funded the same way as most colleges and can afford to work with students on the tuition and fees because of their huge endowments.  None of the ivies offer performance-based scholarships because they sort people for success and achievement just to get in the door.  All their scholarships are based on need--they calculate a financial aid package that takes family size, income, etc. into account.  For some students it actually ends up being more financially manageable for them to attend one of these schools than it would be for them to attend a flagship public school, particularly in instances where the family has multiple children attending universities at the same time.  I remember back in college, one of my professors was in the middle of figuring out how to make herself look as poor as possible because one of her children had fallen in love with Princeton.  Marty is not from a "write a check for Yale" level of wealth, but it appears his family was also not poor enough for him to qualify for a full ride all four years.

So that's why we saw Lorelai being shocked when she found out that her recent windfall had prevented Rory from getting a good financial aid package.  She assumed that Rory wouldn't have to pay much because Lorelai viewed herself as broke.  (again, you'd think after the mess with Chilton and the fact that Lorelai's business degree required accounting classes that she should have been aware of this)

Amen to all that.  Many moons ago, I got an almost full scholarship to a seven sisters school while I got a letter from my state university stating that "while I demonstrated financial need" they could only offer me $200/semester.

[shron17]

15 hours ago, junienmomo said:

She wasn't always behaving as a spoiled teenager, but it was not a rare occurrence. It was a big and negative part of her everyday persona.

Behavior aside, in my book a spoiled teenager would have stayed in her parents' house doing whatever she wanted on their dime while others took care of things that were her responsibility.  Lorelai isn't perfect but she did create a good life for herself and Rory, not an easy task, and certainly not something anyone who remained a spoiled teenager could ever accomplish.

Edited October 8, 2016 by shron17

[Melancholy]

It really ticks me off when Lorelai mocks Jess for having the self-help "Can you see her face?" book. Lorelai hated on Jess for years for treating people badly and not behaving well in life. But then, she has to dump on him for trying to better himself with a self-help book? It's cruel and just underscores that Lorelai has a very narrow-minded conception of how people should operate. It's part and parcel of Lorelai mocking Yale's dictate that Rory get some therapy upon her return to Yale in S7. Which is crappy parenting because Rory clearly had some issues in S6 that she needed to work on and Lorelai was sabotaging any real psychological growth. But then to add to the hypocrisy, Lorelai made these comments of "Ooh, my parents are so backward and emotionally stunted that they'd never see a psychologist even though they need one!" However when you contrast it to how Lorelai's comments about Jess or Rory when the self-help project is actually underway, Lorelai's comments about her parents are just another transparent way to badmouth them under cover of being supposedly "modern" compared to her parents. 

[txhorns79]

Quote

It's cruel and just underscores that Lorelai has a very narrow-minded conception of how people should operate.

Lorelai is her mother's daughter.  I always thought that was the lesson of the show.  For all of Lorelai's protests and "Emily = Bad" monologues, she was just a variation of her mother.  The only real difference was that Lorelai had a very compliant daughter, while Emily did not. 

[shron17]

10 hours ago, Melancholy said:

It really ticks me off when Lorelai mocks Jess for having the self-help "Can you see her face?" book.

Me too.  And she has to mock him to Luke, of all people.  You don't mock other people's relatives even if they complain about them

10 hours ago, Melancholy said:

It's part and parcel of Lorelai mocking Yale's dictate that Rory get some therapy upon her return to Yale in S7.

I hate how she made that all about her.  "They always ask about your mother.  It's okay, say whatever you want."  Would it have killed her to suggest to Rory that it might actually be good to talk about the stuff that happened over the last year?  Also, I hate that they added to the stigma of counseling for college students who often need support.  It would have been really nice if Rory had a line a few episodes later saying the counseling sessions actually helped her a lot more than she expected.  Yeah, I know that's probably asking for too much.

Edited October 8, 2016 by shron17

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

Lorelai really is beyond the pale in "Teach Me Tonight". I've had loved ones in accidents, and it's terrifying. I don't blame her for the bitchy, entitled crap she pulled at the hospital prior to seeing Rory, even though the whole she was mortified at the same behavior from Emily (Hypocrisy, thy name is Lorelai). But I've seen worse, so for that, she gets a pass. But screaming at Luke, barging into his home, refusing to give him the whole story about his nephew, drama queening that Jess had almost killed Rory--I could kill her. And then, pestering Rory with her bits and attention-seeking brattiness while Rory was trying to rest. It is one of the worst Lorelai episodes of the whole series. 

[elang4]

9 minutes ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

Lorelai really is beyond the pale in "Teach Me Tonight". I've had loved ones in accidents, and it's terrifying. I don't blame her for the bitchy, entitled crap she pulled at the hospital prior to seeing Rory, even though the whole she was mortified at the same behavior from Emily (Hypocrisy, thy name is Lorelai). But I've seen worse, so for that, she gets a pass. But screaming at Luke, barging into his home, refusing to give him the whole story about his nephew, drama queening that Jess had almost killed Rory--I could kill her. And then, pestering Rory with her bits and attention-seeking brattiness while Rory was trying to rest. It is one of the worst Lorelai episodes of the whole series. 

I always wished that Rory had told Lorelai that it was Jess that got her back to Yale. Would have liked to see that scene for Lorelai's reaction. :)

[junienmomo]

17 minutes ago, elang4 said:

I always wished that Rory had told Lorelai that it was Jess that got her back to Yale. Would have liked to see that scene for Lorelai's reaction. :)

Yeah, Lorelai never saw Jess after what, Liz' wedding? His last interaction with her might well have been her yelling at him about Luke. Since we know that Luke doesn't tend to volunteer information, and he knows Lorelai doesn't like Jess, it's possible she never asked and he never volunteered an update on Jess' life.

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

There's always the hope that Jess booting Rory's butt back to Yale will be brought up (somehow) in the revival. I've thought out several fanfiction-y scenes as to how it could work. I hope it happens and I hope he's SMUG. 

[Lady Calypso]

36 minutes ago, junienmomo said:

Yeah, Lorelai never saw Jess after what, Liz' wedding? His last interaction with her might well have been her yelling at him about Luke. Since we know that Luke doesn't tend to volunteer information, and he knows Lorelai doesn't like Jess, it's possible she never asked and he never volunteered an update on Jess' life.

Yeah, the last time she saw him was Liz's wedding. I don't know whether Jess would have come back to visit Luke or Liz, even after Doula was born, and I definitely think that Jess was the last person on Lorelai's mind to ask about. Especially after Jess' role in Luke's life was taken over by April. I also imagine Rory didn't talk about Jess to Lorelai at all. I mean, she only found out about Rory visiting Jess in Philadelphia after Rory mentioned that that's where she met April for the first time. She didn't even know that Rory and Jess were in contact:

Quote

LORELAI: [Surprised] Oh. When did you meet April?
RORY: Um, when I went to Philadelphia for Jess' open house.
LORELAI: Jess? Philadelphia? What am I missing here?
RORY: Nothing. Jess' work had an open house, I was invited, and I went and Luke showed up there with April. It was a total fluke.
LORELAI: God, I didn't know you were seeing Jess.
RORY: Well, I'm not seeing him. We're just friends.

Judging from that conversation, I don't even know if Lorelai knew about Jess publishing his own book and working at the publishing company. Even in a previous conversation with Luke when he said that he was going to see Jess in Philadelphia, she sounded surprised. 

I'd love to see in the revival a scene between Lorelai and Jess. Even if it's a small scene, I'd love to see if their dynamic is the same or if it has changed. But ultimately, I'd love for a passing comment from Rory about Jess helping to get her back into Yale. Maybe Jess and Logan run back into each other in Stars Hollow and Lorelai is introducing them when they interject that they've already met 10 years ago. And especially with Jess being Lorelai's step-nephew and part of her family when her and Luke get married (whether that's before the revival or during it), it would be nice to see a scene with them again. 

[TimetravellingBW]

I was always so disappointed we never saw Rory tell Lorelai that Jess was the one that got her back to Yale and about Jess's book/publishing company. It really would have been good for Lorelai to realize that the little hoodlum she vowed to hate forever, basically got kicked out of town and believed was a "terrible influence" on her perfect daughter was now successful, happy and the only one who was able to get through to Rory and get her back on track. (In a situation where even Lorelai failed). Would Lorelai still have stubbornly hated Jess or actually eaten humble pie and realized she'd been too harsh before?  And how would Jess treat Lorelai now he'd matured a bit?

(It also irritates me that Rory not telling Lorelai that Jess prompted her to go back, makes it seem like Rory is implying that she just "fixed things" all by herself. Obviously it was ultimately her call and Jess wasn't wholly responsible for her making changes in her life, but he certainly helped. But post-returning to Yale Rory just acts like she was misled by the evil Richard/Emily/Logan and managed to fight her way out alone). 

[FictionLover]

You could see in 21 is the Loneliest Number that Rory was on her way back. She wanted to see her mom and things were falling apart with her grandparents.  Jess gave her an outsiders perspective and the push she needed to put things in motion. 

[Guest]

Lorelai matured so little in the seven seasons of the show. I was watching Go Bulldogs last night and her behavior bugged me SO BADLY and I realized it was a lot like two other episodes where I absolutely hate her character - Road Trip to Harvard and Kill Me Now.  Road Trip to Harvard in how she treats others and makes fun of anything and everything she sees that isn't her little bubble. (Seriously, for someone as quirky as Lorelai, you'd think she'd have a little more grace for other's quirks.)  Kill Me Now - how she hates seeing Rory and her grandparents develop a relationship.  Even though at several points throughout the series, she insists that she wants Rory to have a great relationship with E&R.  No, she really doesn't. 

[Spartan Girl]

"Keg! Max!" was another horrible Lorelei episode, her all but stalking Max when he tells her to back off, even though she isn't even sure if she has any feelings for him. Like she didn't put the poor guy through enough already.

And the way she applauds Rory to get two guys to fight over her in the next episode? Grr.

[huahaha]

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

And the way she applauds Rory to get two guys to fight over her in the next episode? Grr.

Lauren's delivery of "Did you ever know that you're my hero?" cracked me up. I read that as Lorelai knowing Rory's values so just going for the laugh rather than the stereotypical teaching moment.

[timimouse]

6 hours ago, huahaha said:

Lauren's delivery of "Did you ever know that you're my hero?" cracked me up. I read that as Lorelai knowing Rory's values so just going for the laugh rather than the stereotypical teaching moment.

Agreed. One of the things that I did like about this show was that Lorelai let her kid be a kid. Some parents would flip out about their child being at a kegger, but she asked the pertinent questions first... Were you drinking and/or drunk? No. Did you have sex? No. Once those things are out of the way, then its ok that you went to a party which the cops broke up because of a fight. Oh that fight was about you?? COOL! lol. I think that's the angle they were going for. And before I get reamed about the details of her not knowing about the thing in Kyle's bedroom, I know she only got that detail after but she trusted her daughter enough to believe that she wouldn't have sex at that party.

[readster]

Yes, I got that Lorelai was fine that none of the bad things and the fight being about her when she knew about Dean and Jess she didn't find a big deal. Of course, I'm sure after what happened with Dean later on and everything, she could have seen the signs and just said: "You screwed up there and why was Jess having such problems?"

[SparedTurkey]

On 9/11/2016 at 0:27 PM, junienmomo said:

"Top of her class," "best and brightest," yet she got pregnant at fifteen. 

Can we not judge a woman's intelligence based on her reproductive system? Who said birth control didn't fail? Must have missed that in the script...

Lorelai has many, many flaws but this? Really?

[timimouse]

1 hour ago, SparedTurkey said:

Can we not judge a woman's intelligence based on her reproductive system? Who said birth control didn't fail? Must have missed that in the script...

Lorelai has many, many flaws but this? Really?

I'm going to second this sentiment. Being an intellectual ("book smart") doesn't make you any less human and any less capable of making mistakes. Rory was painted as uber bright as well but we saw time and time again how weak she became around men. Maybe that was a trait inherited from her mother? Who knows...

[random chance]

Birth control is not 100% effective and human beings are not 100% perfect.

[shron17]

5 hours ago, SparedTurkey said:

"Top of her class," "best and brightest," yet she got pregnant at fifteen. 

I would attribute this more to immaturity and not enough parental guidance.  I think it's really up to parents to make sure their kids know how easily this could happen and what a huge effect it would have on their life.

[junienmomo]

5 hours ago, SparedTurkey said:

On 9/11/2016 at 4:27 AM, junienmomo said:

"Top of her class," "best and brightest," yet she got pregnant at fifteen. 

 

I'm drawing a contrast between her supposed intelligence and a series of her stupid actions surrounding having somehow unprotected sex. 

I'm not judging her intelligence based on her reproductive system. I'm judging her intelligence based on her series of bad decisions which contributed to the pregnancy and the struggles she put herself through afterwards.

She put herself in a position of risk of pregnancy, then dropped out of school, then ran away to a wildly stupid situation with no job and no money. She never held the father accountable for his part; it took a fairy-godmother-like character in Mia to magically save her from her own stupid decision to run away unprepared to take care of her baby. 
Lorelai herself called her pregnancy a "stupid thing" that she did. 

Probably the smartest thing she did during the pregnancy was refuse to marry Christopher.

[SparedTurkey]

Quote

I'm drawing a contrast between her supposed intelligence and a series of her stupid actions surrounding having somehow unprotected sex. 

Not in that first post you weren't. Not sure where it says Lorelai wasn't on the pill or Christopher didn't bring a condom so not sure where the assumption she is so dumb that of course it was unprotected sex came from.

Also, pretty sure she ran away and found a job in less than 24 hours? And provided for Rory since that second. What was she supposed to do? Stay with toxic parents because it is 'smarter'?

I also think she did finish high school because there was no suggestion she had to complete her GED before business school but I don't think the show made a point of it.

I think Lorelai does some massively dumb things. But a marker of low intelligence isn't having a baby at 16.

[photo fox]

40 minutes ago, SparedTurkey said:

But a marker of low intelligence isn't having a baby at 16.

Agreed!  Having sex is an action.  Getting pregnant is a twist of fate.

So having sex at 15 (with an irresponsible idiot) was clearly inadvisable.  But how many other girls in Lorelei's age group were acting the same way, but just got lucky?

I think questioning Lorelei's actions is fair game, but getting pregnant isn't an action.  It's just a possible outcome.

[junienmomo]

29 minutes ago, SparedTurkey said:

Not in that first post you weren't. Not sure where it says Lorelai wasn't on the pill or Christopher didn't bring a condom so not sure where the assumption she is so dumb that of course it was unprotected sex came from.

Also, pretty sure she ran away and found a job in less than 24 hours? And provided for Rory since that second. What was she supposed to do? Stay with toxic parents because it is 'smarter'?

I also think she did finish high school because there was no suggestion she had to complete her GED before business school but I don't think the show made a point of it.

I think Lorelai does some massively dumb things. But a marker of low intelligence isn't having a baby at 16.

You're right. In my Sept 11 post it was about Lorelai's immaturity. But the intelligence point stands on its own.

She didn't find a job - it was handed to her by a woman who took pity on her. She had no skills and a baby in her arms.  That was my point of the fairy godmother thing. That she proved herself capable of hard work later was not a contributing factor to getting the job.

We can argue about providing for Rory for years, but it's no less conjecture than Rory's intelligence - some say she sacrificed, and I'm sure she did, but she was also reliant on the goodwill of others for many benefits.

She got her GED and told the SHH students this at career day.

There is a huge gap between being too dumb to know how to use birth control (I  never said this) and being the smartest in her class. There is no evidence that I've read that says the sex was completely unprotected, nor that it wasn't.

I expect the "best and brightest" to understand that sex carries a risk of STD and pregnancy and to behave accordingly. She did not, therefore I conclude she wasn't the best and brightest, and I presume her intelligence was more an assumption on the part of her parents. That doesn't make her the dumbest either.

There were a number of ways an intelligent-enough person could find a path out of the Gilmore house without running away in what may well have been winter without any resources. Examples:

Lorelai gave birth when she was 16. She left when she was 17. I presume that she had her driver's license at that point. She could have found a job first. She could have saved money. She could have gotten the GED before leaving and maybe she did. She could have had a place to stay before running away. She could have taken a job in Hartford, where she likely would have been able to talk herself into something that paid more. There were a number of single parent resources like low-cost daycare available in big cities.  She could have found a friend of a friend to stay with for a while instead of going to a stranger. 

Any of those possibilities above had a higher chance of success and would have been safer for Rory than running off without notice.

[clack]

The premise of the show was that of a 32 year old mother (who could pass for being even younger,) born of a wealthy family, and her 16 year old daughter being best friends with each other. For the premise to exist, certain implausibilities had to be glossed over.

Did Lorelai not use birth control, or did she use it and it failed? We never learn. Did Lorelai consider abortion? Did her parents? Did they ever discuss it with each other? Argue over it? The show never touches on it.

We are meant to accept the premise, and not look too deeply into its implications.

[junienmomo]

30 minutes ago, photo fox said:

Agreed!  Having sex is an action.  Getting pregnant is a twist of fate.

Uh, no. Getting pregnant is a question of probability.  (evil grin: it also generally involves twisting something other than fate)

[Kohola3]

Dirty!

[Viqutorious]

21 minutes ago, clack said:

Did Lorelai not use birth control, or did she use it and it failed? We never learn. Did Lorelai consider abortion? Did her parents? Did they ever discuss it with each other? Argue over it? The show never touches on it.

In Dear Richard and Emily this was addressed.

[JaggedLilPill]

The only tried and true way to not get pregnant is to abstain from sex. Or unless a woman has had certain medical procedures. Otherwise, it can happen any time. It doesn't mean the woman isn't smart or intelligent. The condom could be faulty. The pill she's on could be having a negative interaction with her body. I mean, come on now. 

Even if Lorelai hadn't used birth control, I wouldn't deem that stupid. I would call it more reckless than anything else. The decision to have sex has nothing to do with intelligence or being good or bad. It's why people have that annoyed reaction to Lorelai's "I've got the good kid." 

[shron17]

2 hours ago, junienmomo said:

She didn't find a job - it was handed to her by a woman who took pity on her.

I think you're forgetting that Lorelai did have to go to Stars Hollow, find out where the inn was and knock on the door.  For all we know she saved up her money and made a list of all the inns in the surrounding area (not too far but not too close) where she might be able to get a job and started knocking on doors.  Maybe the Independence Inn was the first, maybe the 10th--we only know for sure that it was the last one.  It seemed clear from Mia's reminiscing that she never once regretted giving her a chance and gaining a hard-working, loyal employee.

2 hours ago, junienmomo said:

We can argue about providing for Rory for years, but it's no less conjecture than Rory's intelligence - some say she sacrificed, and I'm sure she did, but she was also reliant on the goodwill of others for many benefits.

As are most single parents, whether they rely on family, friends and/or neighbors.  It really does take a village.  Lorelai chose to find a new place to raise Rory rather than staying with her parents because, justified or not, it made her unhappy to live there.  I don't have a problem with that because I think one of the greatest gifts you can give your child is a happy, contented parent.  She always knew she could fall back on her parents for Rory if she failed.

2 hours ago, junienmomo said:

I expect the "best and brightest" to understand that sex carries a risk of STD and pregnancy and to behave accordingly. She did not, therefore I conclude she wasn't the best and brightest, and I presume her intelligence was more an assumption on the part of her parents.

Realistically many 15-year-olds think it will never happen to them, even knowing the risks.  And what Richard said in CR was "the brightest in her class" which may have been based on Lorelai's school records.

[hippielamb]

13 hours ago, timimouse said:

I'm going to second this sentiment. Being an intellectual ("book smart") doesn't make you any less human and any less capable of making mistakes. Rory was painted as uber bright as well but we saw time and time again how weak she became around men. Maybe that was a trait inherited from her mother? Who knows...

3rded! People judging a 15 year old for getting pregnant were either celibate at that age or forget how easy it is for teenagers to get caught up in the moment. Hell, 30+ year old women sometimes don't use birth control effectively and have unplanned pregnancies. 

6 hours ago, photo fox said:

Agreed!  Having sex is an action.  Getting pregnant is a twist of fate.

So having sex at 15 (with an irresponsible idiot) was clearly inadvisable.  But how many other girls in Lorelei's age group were acting the same way, but just got lucky?

I think questioning Lorelei's actions is fair game, but getting pregnant isn't an action.  It's just a possible outcome.

Yep. I got pregnant at 17, had my baby at 18. I used to joke that everyone was having sex, I just got caught. Most girls Lorelai's age would have had their families suggest or even coerce them into abortion or adoption. I give Emily and Richard credit for standing by their daughter, even if they did try to pressure her and Chris to get married. 

[SparedTurkey]

Quote

But the intelligence point stands on its own.

It really doesn't. Being academically smart and falling pregnant at 15 are not equal indicators of intelligence. Even if, on that one night, birth control was ignored - that doesn't make her dumb or invalidate her intelligence. Would you want your intelligence level to be judged on one mistake you made when you were 15?

Quote

She didn't find a job - it was handed to her by a woman who took pity on her...Any of those possibilities above had a higher chance of success and would have been safer for Rory than running off without notice.

Well she did find it didn't she. She knocked on the door. She asked for a job. Aside from having a baby in her arms that's pretty much like dropping off your resume. Mia didn't have to give her a job. Could have shut the door and forgot about it. Doesn't mean Rory wasn't safe. She could have gone to a shelter, a friends. Maybe that was her plan if she didn't get a job. But she got a job. I don't think that is a reason to negatively judge her. But she tried and suceeded. Doesn't seem that stupid. And to quote Bill Adama, sometimes you gotta roll the hard six.

[huahaha]

Don't know why this just popped into my head, but I'm apparently still bothered that Lorelai buried her grandmother without underwear. Yes, Gran wanted "fresh clothes," which Lorelai interpreted to mean "new clothes," but I'm pretty sure the lady would've preferred just about anything to going commando to the coroner's/her grave.

I know that Lorelai was supposed to be overwhelmed (at the passing of a grandmother she barely knew or liked), but ugh. That scene. There's bratty and disrespectful, and then there's violating someone's burial wishes.

[Viqutorious]

2 hours ago, huahaha said:

 

Don't know why this just popped into my head, but I'm apparently still bothered that Lorelai buried her grandmother without underwear. Yes, Gran wanted "fresh clothes," which Lorelai interpreted to mean "new clothes," but I'm pretty sure the lady would've preferred just about anything to going commando to the coroner's/her grave

 

I thought she bought her underwear when she realized Gran was going commando..

[ChlcGirl]

She did.  Didn't she tell Rory they had strawberries on them?

[AllyB]

Talking about her behaviour at funerals I thought the story she told at Richard's funeral was honestly unforgivable and Emily was entirely justified in her anger at her.

[TwirlyGirly]

8 minutes ago, AllyB said:

Talking about her behaviour at funerals I thought the story she told at Richard's funeral was honestly unforgivable and Emily was entirely justified in her anger at her.

To me, it's about her behavior at any public event ("public" being loosely defined as including guests not related to Lorelai) of which she is not the "guest of honor." Lorelai routinely makes herself the center of attention at these events with her behavior. She cannot set aside her own wants/needs/issues for even a short period of time and let the event proceed as planned. Fran's funeral? She and Sookie plotted throughout about the possibility of using the event to buy the Dragonfly. Lorelai interrupted the baptism of Sookie's children so she could have it out with Rory over not getting Rory's new cellphone number. At the Friday night dinner with the Gilmore's which included the little girl Emily was coaching on etiquette for her cotillion, Lorelai had to turn THAT into an argument about her breakup with Max. She was obnoxious at the Friday night dinner at which Emily introduced Christopher to Carolyn (the psychologist). Obnoxious at Sherry's baby shower (vandalizes Sherry & Christopher's bathroom). Obnoxious at the Friday night dinner in which Emily introduces her to Chase Bradford (instead of bowing out graciously after the meal, Lorelai "escapes" by climbing out the bedroom window without even saying good-bye). 

Lorelai is also a hypocrite; chastising others for behavior she engages in herself. For example, when Emily catches Trix kissing the man in the jogging suit (S3/E15), she plans to use that information to embarrass Trix. Lorelai talks her out of it. But in an earlier episode (S3/E11), Lorelai embarrasses Emily in the deposition she gives regarding the lawsuit filed against Emily by one of her maids. And later, in S5/E21, Lorelai further embarrasses Emily in the interview she gives to the travel magazine about the Dragonfly.

These are just a few examples, but there are many more. The point is, Lorelai seems to always need to be the center of attention. Furthermore, she routinely places her own feelings above the feelings of everyone else - and expects everyone else to make her feelings a priority as well (ruined her first date with Jason by complaining about everything he'd carefully planned). She also exempts herself from following the rules of "polite society" she imposes on others.

[ShadowFacts]

14 minutes ago, TwirlyGirly said:

These are just a few examples, but there are many more. The point is, Lorelai seems to always need to be the center of attention. Furthermore, she routinely places her own feelings above the feelings of everyone else - and expects everyone else to make her feelings a priority as well (ruined her first date with Jason by complaining about everything he'd carefully planned). She also exempts herself from following the rules of "polite society" she imposes on others.

Yes, she is quite taken with herself a lot of the time.  Another example, and I don't remember details, is when she hurt Suki's feelings when talking about how she (Suki) wouldn't know anything about dating.  Sure, she immediately regretted it and we all put our feet in our mouths sometimes, but it doesn't help that the townsfolk treat her as though she is sprinkled with fairy dust.  Emily alludes to it in the revival. 

[random chance]

My favorite me-me-me thing was when she was making Lane feel better about touching that boy's hair by telling the story of her teen pregnancy and how great her life was now. It had frak-all to do with Lane's situation but it supposedly made Lane feel all better. It makes me wonder if ASP has nieces who have to listen to the story of how she didn't get to write season 7 whenever they complain about acne or something.

[Taryn74]

2 minutes ago, random chance said:

It makes me wonder if ASP has nieces who have to listen to the story of how she didn't get to write season 7 whenever they complain about acne or something.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[JaggedLilPill]

I saw the Lane pep talk differently actually. Lane was humiliated and mortified and convinced that what she did was the Worst. Thing. Ever. that nobody would ever forget. Meanwhile, Lorelai was trying to explain that teenagers do stupid things all the time in high school and that they do, in fact, live it down. Not that Lane wasn't allowed a freak out, but putting it into perspective, yeah, some kids do much more stupid shit than touching someone's hair. But YMMV. 

Edited December 22, 2016 by JaggedLilPill

[TwirlyGirly]

On ‎12‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 8:04 AM, ShadowFacts said:

Yes, she is quite taken with herself a lot of the time.  Another example, and I don't remember details, is when she hurt Suki's feelings when talking about how she (Suki) wouldn't know anything about dating.  Sure, she immediately regretted it and we all put our feet in our mouths sometimes, but it doesn't help that the townsfolk treat her as though she is sprinkled with fairy dust.  Emily alludes to it in the revival. 

Other than Richard and Emily, I can only remember three people/incidents in which Lorelai was strongly called out on her behavior. The first was Max, in S2/E3, when he's talking to Lorelai about the fact Lorelai still hasn't given him a key to her house, saying "No, you need to think about someone other than yourself for a few minutes a day."

The second is in S2/E8, in which Lorelai argues with Sookie about opening their own inn, and makes several insulting comments to Sookie, until ultimately Sookie says to Lorelai "Now you're talking down to me. [...] ...I don't know why you are, but I don't want to start crying in front of you because it'll just give you one more thing to point at to say, 'Look, she's too emotional and she's too weak for me to go into business with,' so I'm leaving. And I'll see you tomorrow, if I can remember to show up."

The third is in S2/E19, when Lorelai goes crazy on Luke over Jess and Rory's car accident, blaming Luke for the accident because he agreed to allow Jess to come to Stars Hollow (because it appears Lorelai believes everyone moving in to Stars Hollow should go through some 'extreme vetting' process prior to be allowed to move in, to ensure there will be no possibility of them bringing harm to Lorelai or Rory, either emotionally or physically, accidentally or on purpose). Luke interrupts Lorelai's diatribe with "Hey, I am sorry about Rory. You know I care more about her than I do myself, but at least you know where Rory is and at least you know that she’s okay. Now, I have to find Jess and I have to make sure that he’s okay, and if that cuts into your screaming time, well that’s just too damn bad!"

There are probably more, but those are the three I remember off the top of my head.

Edited December 23, 2016 by TwirlyGirly

[Melancholy]

In S3, I like Sookie and Rory both saying Lorelai treated Max like crap when Lorelai was all trying to understate what she did so she could basically chase him around his classroom to satisfy a vague "What if" and even worse "let me comfort myself with proof that even a guy I devastated still likes me." However it's not that strong a call out because time had passed and Max was far afield from Sookie and even Rory at this point and that necessarily dulled the criticism. 

I think Lorelai is a much better person than Christopher and she's always on the high ground there. However he does land some good call outs- his "You were going to marry a man and move him into my daughter's house and I didn't know about it until your drunk dial at your Bachelorette party. But you're on my case over Sherri's choice of words in your own conversation" was on point. If you ignore DS smirking like a motherfucker so he doesn't read as hurt or the fact that he didn't know about Max says something about his level of communication with his daughter. Also the ending of It Should Have Been Lorelai, Christopher delivers one of the finest smackdowns of Lorelai affecting a martyr breathy confidant attitude to fish for inappropriate sympathy. 

Luke has a bunch of arguments with Lorelai but he dilutes the righteousness of his position in different ways. Taking a stand against Lorelai being derisive, nosey and judgey and even mean but thawing out and forgiving her too fast. I.E. In the Clamor and Clangor, Nick & Nora. Going to a petty, pathetic, bitter place like "It doesn't bother me that you slept with Chris. After all, you proposed!" because he thinks getting into his actual justified hurt is humiliating and he tries to reach for a strong posture with snark.  

Actually, I think Taylor called out Lorelai BEAUTIFULLY when she was harassing him about The Yearling selection even though she was completely ignorant of the cost and licensing issues of the outdoor movie night. 

Edited December 23, 2016 by Melancholy

[Lady Calypso]

One of my favourite Lorelai smackdowns was from season 1's Christopher Returns. Not only is it delivered by the one character you'd never expect it from (Richard), it is also delivered so beautifully and it shines a light on Lorelai's actions pre-series and how it affected Emily and Richard. The show doesn't shine this light much. The show usually focuses on how much Emily/Richard have not been great parents to Lorelai and that she was justified in leaving. But even in this season 1 episode, we get a glimpse of how it affected the two of them. 

As for other characters who call Lorelai out on her behaviour, it's true that not many do. Christopher probably does it the most. It comes from a very hypocritical place and the sentiment is never followed through to its entirety, but he does tend to call her out at least once per season. 

Headmaster Charleston never gave into Lorelai and her behaviour. Obviously, he holds higher standards due to his status and class, but he doesn't let up on Lorelai and Rory at all. His "if Rory can't handle the pressure, she can leave" speech in The Deer Hunter episode was well done.