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All Episodes Talk: Lorelai and Rory and the People They Love


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Kill Me Now is such a solid episode, I tend to forget just how good it is until I do a rewatch.

One thing bugged me this time though -- the Doublemint Twins' mother having the wedding decorations be lavender instead of pink and blue (one twin wanted one color and the other twin wanted the other color). Incorporating both colors into the wedding scheme would not have been any big deal and it was petty on the mother's part to "compromise" with a color that neither one actually wanted. I know the mother was paying and 'the customer is always right' and all that, but Lorelai could have graciously but firmly insisted that it would be easy enough to make both brides happy.

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I assumed the mother decided on purple before telling Lorelai and then made it clear that's what they were going to do so she went along with it. When the twins were arguing about soup or salad the mother went straight to her for help which lead to the solution of putting each on the menu for the guests to choose so she probably would have suggested using both colors if it was left up to her.

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1 hour ago, scarynikki12 said:

I assumed the mother decided on purple before telling Lorelai and then made it clear that's what they were going to do so she went along with it. 

Yeah, you could be right. I just found it odd that Lorelai tried to cover for the mom by acting like it was her decision, without even a flash of surprise that lavender wasn't the color the twins actually wanted. But, this was only the third episode so I can chalk it up to the show still finding it's footing on all the characters.

Still bugs me, though. Ha!

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2 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

I assumed the mother decided on purple before telling Lorelai and then made it clear that's what they were going to do so she went along with it. When the twins were arguing about soup or salad the mother went straight to her for help which lead to the solution of putting each on the menu for the guests to choose so she probably would have suggested using both colors if it was left up to her.

I agree.  i think the mom already ordered the lavender flowers.  it would have been too late to change at the point without a lot more expense than the mom was originally trying to avoid.  I also don't think the mom was trying to be petty.  Those girls were fighting about everything and the mom probably just took the first option that occurred to her.

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Today on the 254th episode of Random Gilmore Girls Thoughts Which Pop Into My Head, do you guys think Emily's friends knew that Richard and Pennilyn Lott had lunch together occasionally and just assumed they were having an affair? And that Emily probably knew about it but chose to ignore it?

The reason I'm wondering is based on a few different things. Of all the society set couples we saw in more than just a passing scene, R&E seemed to be the only ones who had a solid, happy marriage (and I believe that was based on the way Trix raised Richard. Even after she had been widowed for decades, she didn't want to publicly have another love interest because she was so staunch about having married for life). Jason mentioned one time his mom "having more time with the pool boy" like it was normal for her to be sleeping with a much younger guy. Straub and Francine certainly didn't seem to have a good marriage, more like they just put on a good face in public. Mitchum was presented as a playboy despite having been married for 20+ years to Shira. Most of these situations were shown to us like they were the norm but not discussed publicly.

The scene that really got me to thinking about this, though, is in Presenting Lorelai Gilmore when Emily is gossiping with her crew about the couple who publicly had a big fight because the husband had a whole second family in Salisbury and the mistress had written a letter to the wife bragging about how he would come see her when he was supposed to be away on business. They get to talking about Emily missing a lot of the society parties lately and one of the ladies asks if Richard has been hanging out in Salisbury lately. To Emily's credit, the implication that he may have a mistress completely goes over her head and she just continues on with the conversation. But it made me wonder if it was just assumed that Richard was probably cheating on her.

Thoughts?

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1 hour ago, Taryn74 said:

Today on the 254th episode of Random Gilmore Girls Thoughts Which Pop Into My Head, do you guys think Emily's friends knew that Richard and Pennilyn Lott had lunch together occasionally and just assumed they were having an affair? And that Emily probably knew about it but chose to ignore it?

The reason I'm wondering is based on a few different things. Of all the society set couples we saw in more than just a passing scene, R&E seemed to be the only ones who had a solid, happy marriage (and I believe that was based on the way Trix raised Richard. Even after she had been widowed for decades, she didn't want to publicly have another love interest because she was so staunch about having married for life). Jason mentioned one time his mom "having more time with the pool boy" like it was normal for her to be sleeping with a much younger guy. Straub and Francine certainly didn't seem to have a good marriage, more like they just put on a good face in public. Mitchum was presented as a playboy despite having been married for 20+ years to Shira. Most of these situations were shown to us like they were the norm but not discussed publicly.

The scene that really got me to thinking about this, though, is in Presenting Lorelai Gilmore when Emily is gossiping with her crew about the couple who publicly had a big fight because the husband had a whole second family in Salisbury and the mistress had written a letter to the wife bragging about how he would come see her when he was supposed to be away on business. They get to talking about Emily missing a lot of the society parties lately and one of the ladies asks if Richard has been hanging out in Salisbury lately. To Emily's credit, the implication that he may have a mistress completely goes over her head and she just continues on with the conversation. But it made me wonder if it was just assumed that Richard was probably cheating on her.

Thoughts?

There are women who think that all men are wired to cheat. If I say something like, " I have never had a man cheat on me." they think I am stupid or that I have been cheated on and just do not know it.

They would rather hold this as truth than think "maybe it's just the guys I pick".

Of course, the guys that do cheat love to say "Men are just wired this way and it's the women who are at fault for tempting us" rather than take responsibility for their own actions.

This is my long-winded way of saying that Richard and Emily probably never physically cheated on each other.

However, Richard once made a comment about how he wanted Rory to grow up to be more than a lady who planned parties and soirées (not an exact quote). I think he sometimes has issues talking to Emily about some things because her world was so limited, so he might have had an emotional affair here and there.

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2 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

My Head, do you guys think Emily's friends knew that Richard and Pennilyn Lott had lunch together occasionally and just assumed they were having an affair? And that Emily probably knew about it but chose to ignore it?

To the latter point, given Emily's reaction when these lunches came to light, I find it hard to believe that she knew all along and was pretending not to. I would love to know exactly what went down between Richard, Emily, and Pennilynn Lott back in the day. We know Pennilynn was Trix's choice for Richard. In my head, Emily was the smarter and more dynamic of the two, hence why her mother-in-law would have objected to her (she was harder to dominate) and why Richard would have preferred her.

For all the emphasis the show puts on how similar Rory and Lorelai are, Lorelai and Emily aren't that far apart either. Their values and parenting styles differ a lot, but their personalities are pretty comparable: Emily also talks a lot (to the point that she drove Lorelai nuts at the spa), drinks a lot of coffee (which Richard noted when he retired), and is very quick-witted, albeit with fewer pop culture references.

4 minutes ago, qtpye said:

However, Richard once made a comment about how he wanted Rory to grow up to be more than a lady who planned parties and soirées (not an exact quote). I think he sometimes has issues talking to Emily about some things because her world was so limited, so he might have had an emotional affair here and there.

It could also be that he felt Emily's intellect had been wasted on being a socialite/corporate wife and wanted something different for Rory (and probably Lorelai, but he realized early on that she was in no danger of going down the same road as her mother).

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Oh, I fully believe neither Richard nor Emily ever cheated on the other, and I also know Emily had no idea the lunches were happening. I was just wondering if her friends possibly knew about the lunches and/or assumed Richard was cheating, because that seemed to just be the norm in their circle.

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

There are women who think that all men are wired to cheat. If I say something like, " I have never had a man cheat on me." they think I am stupid or that I have been cheated on and just do not know it.

LOL I remember one time years ago when my oldest (she's 22 now) was a baby, I had a friend whose husband was away and she thought she heard someone messing around outside her house one night. She called me in a panic in the middle of the night and asked if my hubby could go over and check things out. I mentioned it in passing to my online mom's group and literally had half a dozen or so of them approach me in private messages asking if I was sure he wasn't going over there for a booty call. Um, yes. I'm sure. I appreciate the concern, but...... LOL.

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(edited)
1 hour ago, Hera said:

To the latter point, given Emily's reaction when these lunches came to light, I find it hard to believe that she knew all along and was pretending not to. I would love to know exactly what went down between Richard, Emily, and Pennilynn Lott back in the day. We know Pennilynn was Trix's choice for Richard. In my head, Emily was the smarter and more dynamic of the two, hence why her mother-in-law would have objected to her (she was harder to dominate) and why Richard would have preferred her.

For all the emphasis the show puts on how similar Rory and Lorelai are, Lorelai and Emily aren't that far apart either. Their values and parenting styles differ a lot, but their personalities are pretty comparable: Emily also talks a lot (to the point that she drove Lorelai nuts at the spa), drinks a lot of coffee (which Richard noted when he retired), and is very quick-witted, albeit with fewer pop culture references.

It could also be that he felt Emily's intellect had been wasted on being a socialite/corporate wife and wanted something different for Rory (and probably Lorelai, but he realized early on that she was in no danger of going down the same road as her mother).

That's how I felt about it.

I know Emily was a little hurt and Richard was devaluing her contribution a bit (planning and organizing things can be quite difficult) but he probably saw Emily as a CEO type who would be running her own business if she was born a couple of generations later.

Edited by qtpye
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(edited)
3 hours ago, Hera said:

To the latter point, given Emily's reaction when these lunches came to light, I find it hard to believe that she knew all along and was pretending not to. I would love to know exactly what went down between Richard, Emily, and Pennilynn Lott back in the day. We know Pennilynn was Trix's choice for Richard. In my head, Emily was the smarter and more dynamic of the two, hence why her mother-in-law would have objected to her (she was harder to dominate) and why Richard would have preferred her.

For all the emphasis the show puts on how similar Rory and Lorelai are, Lorelai and Emily aren't that far apart either. Their values and parenting styles differ a lot, but their personalities are pretty comparable: Emily also talks a lot (to the point that she drove Lorelai nuts at the spa), drinks a lot of coffee (which Richard noted when he retired), and is very quick-witted, albeit with fewer pop culture references.

It could also be that he felt Emily's intellect had been wasted on being a socialite/corporate wife and wanted something different for Rory (and probably Lorelai, but he realized early on that she was in no danger of going down the same road as her mother).

I think one of the issues with Emily and Lorelai is that they are TOO similar though they make totally different life choices. They are both headstrong Alpha types who want to take the lead.

The thing about Rory was she was an almost completely passive character who was more than happy to walk the path her mother had somewhat set out for her.

When Rory decided to drop out of college and actually challenged Lorelai (even though Rory was completely in the wrong), well...we all saw how that went.

Also, Lorelai often interpreted this extreme passivity as Rory being "good". I remember she would joke "If you see a teenager with a halo...that's my daughter".

With Rory's tendency to date married or engaged men, I would say she is far from the angel Lorelai imagines her to be.

I remember in the Spa episode Emily asks Lorelai why they can't have a relationship like Rory and Lorelai...Lorelai responds (not exact words) that she and Rory are too awesome and special to be replicated.

I think what was so "special" is that Rory really never challenges her mother and lets her take the lead most of the time.

Edited by qtpye
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4 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

Oh, I fully believe neither Richard nor Emily ever cheated on the other, and I also know Emily had no idea the lunches were happening. I was just wondering if her friends possibly knew about the lunches and/or assumed Richard was cheating, because that seemed to just be the norm in their circle.

I don't think so. Richard said they had lunch at restaurant that Emily never been to. Her friends probably never been there either.

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15 hours ago, qtpye said:

I think what was so "special" is that Rory really never challenges her mother and lets her take the lead most of the time.

So she's basically Christopher? Actually, based on her characterization in the revival, that kind of tracks. She's 32, struggling to hold a job, but always hopes that the next one will be her big break, and her love life is a mess.

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On 7/21/2021 at 8:52 PM, qtpye said:

 

I think what was so "special" is that Rory really never challenges her mother and lets her take the lead most of the time.

Seriously.  Lorelai would never admit it, but she's just as controlling as her mother.  It's just they want different things.  However, their needs almost always overrode the needs of their child.  Sometimes they did know better, other times they did not.   

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1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

Seriously.  Lorelai would never admit it, but she's just as controlling as her mother.  It's just they want different things.  However, their needs almost always overrode the needs of their child.  Sometimes they did know better, other times they did not.   

The only time Rory really pushed back against her mother in the early seasons was right after she met Dean and didn't want to go to Chilton.

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55 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

Seriously.  Lorelai would never admit it, but she's just as controlling as her mother.  It's just they want different things.  However, their needs almost always overrode the needs of their child.  Sometimes they did know better, other times they did not.   

Yep. I always go back to Lorelai's reaction to Rory taking time off from Yale. I know it was a blow, and Lorelai was disappointed, and it felt like all their years of hard work was getting flushed down the toilet....but the hard truth is Rory was an adult. It was her decision to make. Lorelai had every right to tell her that she couldn't live with her anymore but completely shutting Rory out of her life until she "made the right decision" (i.e. the decision Lorelai wanted her to make) was petty and wrong and exactly what Lorelai spent decades complaining that her parents did to her.

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9 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

Yep. I always go back to Lorelai's reaction to Rory taking time off from Yale. I know it was a blow, and Lorelai was disappointed, and it felt like all their years of hard work was getting flushed down the toilet....but the hard truth is Rory was an adult. It was her decision to make. Lorelai had every right to tell her that she couldn't live with her anymore but completely shutting Rory out of her life until she "made the right decision" (i.e. the decision Lorelai wanted her to make) was petty and wrong and exactly what Lorelai spent decades complaining that her parents did to her.

I don't think Lorelai would have done any of that if Rory hadn't gone to live with R&E.

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58 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

The only time Rory really pushed back against her mother in the early seasons was right after she met Dean and didn't want to go to Chilton.

And that was a moment where I was on Lorelai's side that Rory shouldn't suddenly change plans because she happened to meet an interesting guy. 

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19 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I don't think Lorelai would have done any of that if Rory hadn't gone to live with R&E.

I think Lorelai's anger was compounded by the the fact that she had already gone to Emily and Richard to try to preempt Rory moving in with them and they not only went back on their agreement with her, but let her know in a way that totally blindsided her. And while I agreed with Lorelai in principle that Rory shouldn't have let Mitchum's performance review affect her educational plans, @Taryn74 is totally correct that Rory was an adult and therefore the decision about her life ultimately rested with her, and that cutting her off completely was an over-reaction on Lorelai's part.

Now that I think about it, cutting people off seems to be a trait unique to Lorelai. Emily and Richard never kicked her out of their house, rather she took Rory and ran. And it seems like the years of estrangement that ensued weren't driven by Emily and Richard refusing to take Lorelai's calls, but by neither side ever reaching out. Sure, they could have done more to stay in touch, but as far as I can remember (and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong), while they were often cold and mean in response to being displeased, they were never the ones to initiate a full break.

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Quote

Now that I think about it, cutting people off seems to be a trait unique to Lorelai. Emily and Richard never kicked her out of their house, rather she took Rory and ran. And it seems like the years of estrangement that ensued weren't driven by Emily and Richard refusing to take Lorelai's calls, but by neither side ever reaching out. Sure, they could have done more to stay in touch, but as far as I can remember (and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong), while they were often cold and mean in response to being displeased, they were never the ones to initiate a full break.

I'm sure we're meant to think there was more to her dumping Max than what we saw but the fact is, what we saw was her ghosting him with no explanation. And she refused to talk about it with Rory, who had every right to know why her potential stepfather was suddenly out of the picture.

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(edited)
43 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I'm sure we're meant to think there was more to her dumping Max than what we saw but the fact is, what we saw was her ghosting him with no explanation. And she refused to talk about it with Rory, who had every right to know why her potential stepfather was suddenly out of the picture.

 

53 minutes ago, Hera said:

I think Lorelai's anger was compounded by the the fact that she had already gone to Emily and Richard to try to preempt Rory moving in with them and they not only went back on their agreement with her, but let her know in a way that totally blindsided her. And while I agreed with Lorelai in principle that Rory shouldn't have let Mitchum's performance review affect her educational plans, @Taryn74 is totally correct that Rory was an adult and therefore the decision about her life ultimately rested with her, and that cutting her off completely was an over-reaction on Lorelai's part.

Now that I think about it, cutting people off seems to be a trait unique to Lorelai. Emily and Richard never kicked her out of their house, rather she took Rory and ran. And it seems like the years of estrangement that ensued weren't driven by Emily and Richard refusing to take Lorelai's calls, but by neither side ever reaching out. Sure, they could have done more to stay in touch, but as far as I can remember (and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong), while they were often cold and mean in response to being displeased, they were never the ones to initiate a full break.

 

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

And that was a moment where I was on Lorelai's side that Rory shouldn't suddenly change plans because she happened to meet an interesting guy. 

I think that a lot of us do agree with Lorelai on Rory dropping out of Yale because someone not instantly adoring her was stupid.

However, it really was the first time she resisted her mom and as an adult, she had the right to make her own decision.

Would Lorelai and Rory have been the mother/daughter best friends forever if young Rory was the little spitfire that young Lorelai was in her early years?

I am guessing the answer is no...heck, that type of person would find hanging out with their mother all the time totally lame...similar to how Lorelai hates hanging out with Emily.

The theme song even says, "If you lead...I will follow..."

Edited by qtpye
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2 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

Yep. I always go back to Lorelai's reaction to Rory taking time off from Yale. I know it was a blow, and Lorelai was disappointed, and it felt like all their years of hard work was getting flushed down the toilet....but the hard truth is Rory was an adult. It was her decision to make. Lorelai had every right to tell her that she couldn't live with her anymore but completely shutting Rory out of her life until she "made the right decision" (i.e. the decision Lorelai wanted her to make) was petty and wrong and exactly what Lorelai spent decades complaining that her parents did to her.

I agree with everything Lorelai said to Rory when she told her mother she was quitting Yale. She shouldn't let one person's opinion affect her, to stay in Yale and try different classes and that Rory couldn't just quit and bum around Stars Hollow. Rory was making a really stupid decision and all of Lorelai's suggestions were valid. But I agree completely about cutting Rory out of her life until she made the right decision. I really wish they had done something with Rory quitting Yale then her just quitting, partying and then goes back to Yale. She didn't explore anything, she didn't resolve to change majors or to work harder to be a better journalist. She really just did nothing. It was such a waste. 

44 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I'm sure we're meant to think there was more to her dumping Max than what we saw but the fact is, what we saw was her ghosting him with no explanation. And she refused to talk about it with Rory, who had every right to know why her potential stepfather was suddenly out of the picture.

I do like that at least that was brought up in season three when Lorelai tells Sookie and Rory that she ran into Max. They both do point out she treated him like crap. Its a season late but I like that it was at least acknowledged. 

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(edited)
14 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I always thought that was Lorelai talking to Rory.

I thought so too until I recently started considering it again (thanks to the intelligent people in this thread).

When I watched this show, I was Rory's age and thought Lorelai would be happy with anything Rory decides.

Now that I am older, I still think that Lorelai loves Rory to death, but wonder what would happen if Rory was not such a studious kid who loved to hang out with her mother?

What if Rory had no ambitions for college? What if she wanted to be a great chef like Sookie?

I still think early Lorelai would have supported her but they would not nearly be as joined at the hip, which was some of the original charm of the show.

Edited by qtpye
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35 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I wish they had done a better job with Sookie being a "great chef". Her deviled egg recipe just about made me vomit and who puts yeast in sugar cookies?

Well, the show documented she graduated from the CIA, so formal training. It's clear to me that while probably Amy or Dan was obsessed with cooking and cooking shows, the Palladinos knew nothing about cooking. I still chuckle when I think of the celebrity chefs they got for the revival. 

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2 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I wish they had done a better job with Sookie being a "great chef". Her deviled egg recipe just about made me vomit and who puts yeast in sugar cookies?

What was the deviled egg recipe? I don't remember that one.

Having a CAT wandering around a commercial kitchen just about did me in. OMG.

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On 8/7/2021 at 6:16 PM, HeySandyStrange said:

They also know nothing about children lol.

Or money.

(Let’s see how long we can keep this going!)

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On 8/2/2021 at 2:22 PM, SJC said:

They know nothing about therapy either. hee hee

 

On 8/7/2021 at 6:16 PM, HeySandyStrange said:

They also know nothing about children lol.

 

5 minutes ago, deaja said:

Or money.

(Let’s see how long we can keep this going!)

 

3 minutes ago, Cetacean said:

Or the insurance business.

Maybe we should just say the P's know nothing about reality.

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On 7/24/2021 at 6:32 PM, chessiegal said:

the Palladinos knew nothing about cooking

 

On 8/2/2021 at 1:22 PM, SJC said:

They know nothing about therapy either. hee hee

 

On 8/7/2021 at 5:16 PM, HeySandyStrange said:

They also know nothing about children lol.

 

10 minutes ago, deaja said:

Or money.

 

8 minutes ago, Cetacean said:

Or the insurance business.

 

4 minutes ago, qtpye said:

the P's know nothing about reality.

They know NOTHING......except how to completely ruin characters & then pretend to be baffled when folks grow to hate those characters.

Edited by SJC
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2 hours ago, SJC said:
On 7/24/2021 at 6:32 PM, chessiegal said:

the Palladinos knew nothing about cooking

 

On 8/2/2021 at 1:22 PM, SJC said:

They know nothing about therapy either. hee hee

 

On 8/7/2021 at 5:16 PM, HeySandyStrange said:

They also know nothing about children lol.

 

2 hours ago, deaja said:

Or money.

 

2 hours ago, Cetacean said:

Or the insurance business.

 

2 hours ago, qtpye said:

the P's know nothing about reality.

They know NOTHING......except how to completely ruin characters & then pretend to be baffled when folks grow to hate those characters.

 

2 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

They know nothing about college admissions!

They know nothing about continuity !

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9 hours ago, SJC said:

 

They know nothing about continuity !

This is so true. Shows can have an historian to keep track of what happens. Either GG didn't have one, or they were very bad at their job. For some reason, I've started paying attention to closing credits on shows, and I noticed on a show, can't remember which one, they listed a credit for an historian.

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2 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

they have no idea what a 'small town' even is

I totally concur.
I presently live in a town of around 300. Now that is small!

Edited by SJC
Misspelling
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21 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

Having grown up in a town with a population of 317, I can say with confidence they have no idea what a 'small town' even is.

I don't think it was supposed to be that small. Maybe 8 thousand. With Lorelai and Rory just hanging out at the parts that were in walking distance of their house. It was definitely a weird lay out.

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1 hour ago, Katy M said:

I don't think it was supposed to be that small. Maybe 8 thousand. 

Yeah, that was my point LOL. They acted like a town with a population of almost 10,000 was some tiny little hovel out in the middle of nowhere. Totally not based in reality.

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