Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[Salacious Kitty]

Coogan Law is not enforced in AR. Or reality television, for that matter. 

[GeeGolly]

1 hour ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Coogan Law is not enforced in AR. Or reality television, for that matter. 

Yes, I know, that's why I said for guidance.

[ozziemom]

There are many people out there who push the limits on what would be classified as a business expense but they still show a net profit. In JimBoob’s case, I could see him reporting all his cars as business vehicles. The IRS doesn’t have the manpower to audit every tax return filed. I was a tax preparer for over 30 years and some people tried to say all kinds of expenses were business related. And while we tried to explain the rules etc. and weed out errors, not every tax preparer does that. And clients would lie too. I can’t tell you how many clients told me their golf buddy wrote off this or that, so surely they could too! 🤦🏽‍♀️

All this to say, I would not be surprised if a forensic accountant took a look at the Duggar Empire and discovered some shady transactions but Dreck moaning about Boob is not going to trigger the IRS investigation.

[GeeGolly]

Jill's pic of her "forever valentine and little boy tribe".

[GeeGolly]

Huh, I just noticed... What's going on with Israel's shoulder?

[jcbrown]

On 2/17/2024 at 1:20 PM, GeeGolly said:

Huh, I just noticed... What's going on with Israel's shoulder?

You don't think he's just standing weird? He is certainly getting tall. How old is he now?

[Salacious Kitty]

Izzy will be 9 in April. 

[andromeda331]

11 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Izzy will be 9 in April. 

Wow, already?

Edited February 21 by andromeda331

[Salacious Kitty]

12 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Wow, already?

Jill and Derick's 10th anniversary is in June. 😯

[andromeda331]

10 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Jill and Derick's 10th anniversary is in June. 😯

Wow, time flies.

[Madtown]

Happy 9th birthday to Israel. I think he did an awesome job on his cake. Can't believe he's 9 already.

 

 

[GeeGolly]

[Salacious Kitty]

Jill recently had a stillbirth of a baby girl. They named her Isla Marie.

[Heathen]

I don't want to disparage their experience, but a four-month fetus is no more a stillbirth than Jubilee was. Jill had a second-trimester miscarriage. 

I wish the Dillards healing and the sense to realize that Jill's body has been through enough already. They're playing Russian roulette with each pregnancy. Three kids is plenty. 

[Gemma Violet]

I just saw the news and was coming here to post it.  I'm guessing Jill wanted at least one girl.  I wonder if they'll try again.

[GeeGolly]

My thoughts go out to Jill as miscarrying is hard.

I'm having a hard time understanding the pictures. Did Jill miscarry at home? And did they get dressed and hire a professional photographer?

[andromeda331]

My heart goes out to Jill. That really stinks.

[Snow Fairy]

They found out the baby died in utero. So she was probably induced.

Probably made a photo shoot to remember her, similar like Joy.

Edited April 14 by Snow Fairy

[GeeGolly]

4 hours ago, Snow Fairy said:

They found out the baby died in utero. So she was probably induced.

Probably made a photo shoot to remember her, similar like Joy.

Oh, so that's a hospital room?

[Heathen]

5 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Oh, so that's a hospital room?

No, it looks like home to me. That brown thing on the side is likely a nightstand or end table. 

[BetyBee]

I didn't even know she was pregnant. This is such sad news. 

[Snow Fairy]

They didn't announce.

[Salacious Kitty]

13 hours ago, Heathen said:

I don't want to disparage their experience, but a four-month fetus is no more a stillbirth than Jubilee was. Jill had a second-trimester miscarriage. 

I wish the Dillards healing and the sense to realize that Jill's body has been through enough already. They're playing Russian roulette with each pregnancy. Three kids is plenty. 

You'd think someone trained as a midwife would know proper terminology. I chalk that up to her shitty education under Vanessa. 

[GeeGolly]

4 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

You'd think someone trained as a midwife would know proper terminology. I chalk that up to her shitty education under Vanessa. 

Well since childhood Jill has been big on getting attention and sympathy. And as much as my heart goes out to her, I tend to think she knows she's stretching the truth.

[Salacious Kitty]

On Instagram, she hashtagged both #stillbirth and #miscarriage. 

[Absolom]

It’s hard to know usually exactly when the fetus died isn’t it? 20 weeks is legally a stillbirth. That’s  a bit over 4 1/2 months.

[Notabug]

43 minutes ago, Absolom said:

It’s hard to know usually exactly when the fetus died isn’t it? 20 weeks is legally a stillbirth. That’s  a bit over 4 1/2 months.

Technically, yes.  Before 20 weeks, the medical term is fetal demise (baby died in the womb) while after, it is a stillbirth.  However, I don't begrudge any woman going through the experience to decide for herself what terms are right for her.  Jill was far enough along that she may well have felt the baby move.  It was a fully formed fetus; anyone looking at it would know what it was and be able to tell it was a girl.  Then, Jill had to go through the process of being induced and delivering a child who was no longer alive.  No matter what you call it,  it sucks and my heart goes out to her.

As far as knowing the gestational age, just like ultrasound, the earlier, the more accurate.  All babies are roughly the same size before 20 weeks; their length and weight can be compared against the standards and the pathologist can come up with a fairly accurate estimate, within a week or so anyway.  The only caveat is that, if the baby has serious birth defects or some long term issue that ultimately resulted in the demise; it might not have been growing according to the charts before death and the gestational age underestimated.

Joy and Jill now have this experience in common, I hope they can support one another.  I have no illusions that Michelle will be much help despite her own pregnancy history.

BTW, there is a national charity, Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep (NILMDTS) whose members are professional photographers.  They voluntarily arrange a free photo shoot for any family that loses a child.  They take beautiful photos, give the parents lots of leeway as to what they want and then present the parents with a beautiful album of photos of themselves and their child, along with the digital card.  They're doing God's work, IMO and I have often wondered how they are able to do such a good job while sobbing their hearts out as it's rare that one makes it through a full shoot without shedding some tears.

Edited April 14 by Notabug

[ranchgirl]

I am sad for Jill.  To lose a baby that far along would be very difficult for me or if it happened to my daughter.   I do hope her siblings reached out and offered their support and comfort to her and Derick.  

[Salacious Kitty]

4 minutes ago, ranchgirl said:

I am sad for Jill.  To lose a baby that far along would be very difficult for me or if it happened to my daughter.   I do hope her siblings reached out and offered their support and comfort to her and Derick.  

I wonder how many of them even knew before they made it public?

[Notabug]

4 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I wonder how many of them even knew before they made it public?

These are people who announce before the pee stick is dry.  Within the family, I would imagine, most, if not all, knew she was pregnant.

[Salacious Kitty]

2 minutes ago, Notabug said:

These are people who announce before the pee stick is dry.  Within the family, I would imagine, most, if not all, knew she was pregnant.

I was referring to the loss. Apologies for not being clearer.

Edited April 14 by Salacious Kitty

[mythoughtis]

20 weeks.   That’s past the time when people think they are safe announcing the pregnancy.  She can call the event whatever term she wants - it’s a devastating loss, and  she should be allowed  to describe it in her preferred  terminology.   if it was recognizable as a baby,  that’s what I would call a stillbirth. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

[Heathen]

10 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

You'd think someone trained as a midwife would know proper terminology. I chalk that up to her shitty education under Vanessa. 

Trained as a "midwife." Fixed it for you. 

[GeeGolly]

I wonder if Jill had a choice between induction or a D&C?

I ask because my friend had a stillborn about 5 years ago. She requested a D&C but was told she was too far along and her only choices were to be induced or wait until she went into labor/miscarried naturally. She was horrified. She was so traumatized by the loss she wanted it done - now. She ended up being induced and said being on a delivery floor, delivering her child and then leaving the hospital empty handed was in and of itself another trauma.

Hugs to any of you who have experienced miscarriage or stillbirth.

[Notabug]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I wonder if Jill had a choice between induction or a D&C?

I ask because my friend had a stillborn about 5 years ago. She requested a D&C but was told she was too far along and her only choices were to be induced or wait until she went into labor/miscarried naturally. She was horrified. She was so traumatized by the loss she wanted it done - now. She ended up being induced and said being on a delivery floor, delivering her child and then leaving the hospital empty handed was in and of itself another trauma.

Hugs to any of you who have experienced miscarriage or stillbirth.

Jill might have had a choice depending on how available second trimester D&E's are.  That is dilatation and evacuation which is a better term to describe the procedure in the second trimester when there is a fully formed fetus to be removed.  D&C is a much simpler, easier procedure.  Quite frankly, practitioners who perform a lot of pregnancy terminations, usually folks who've worked for Planned Parenthood or another similar organization, have a huge amount of experience, far more than those of us who do not terminate pregnancies would have. They are far less likely to have complications like hemorrhage, retained products of conception, uterine perforation,etc which are all more common with second trimester D&E.  I don't know the current status of the law in Arkansas, but if second trimester elective terminations are not legal, many practitioners with experience might've left the state to work elsewhere.  It is not just women who voluntarily choose to end the pregnancy who suffer when these procedures are no longer available due to lack of practitioners.  In my own practice, I referred all second trimester losses who wanted a D&E to one of the local clinics or to practitioners I knew who had worked in them.

D&E, BTW, usually results in damage to the fetal parts.  That can make it difficult to determine if the baby had any anomalies (birth defects) if the body is not intact.  Also, many grieving parents would like to see and hold their child and, even if the D&E goes well, no one can guarantee that there will be an intact fetus.

For those reasons, many women in Jill's situation would choose to try to induce and deliver.  She probably wanted to know if there was a problem that could affect future pregnancies as well as have the opportunity to see and hold her little girl.  I know many people think it would be 'easier' on the woman to have an outpatient D&E at a surgery center, but it is not going to be easy either way.

Edited April 15 by Notabug

[GeeGolly]

My friend's child had no obvious anomalies so she was offered an autopsy at $1000 cash. As she said, "not to sound cold, but we can't afford that". Her OB said its rare to know why one miscarries, even after an autopsy.

She found out on a Monday and went in on Thursday morning to get induced. She delivered, spent time with the baby and was home by dinner. She still looks back, after everything, and wishes she could have gone from the ultrasound to the O.R..

Like Jill the child was named (prior to everything) and very much wanted and is honored to this day in a plethora of ways.

As I said before, my thoughts are with Jill.

[jcbrown]

Where are the pictures people are responding to?

[GeeGolly]

19 minutes ago, jcbrown said:

Where are the pictures people are responding to?

IG. And some online magazines have picked the story up.

[jcbrown]

Thank you! Here is the People link for others (like me) who are not on Instagram:

 https://people.com/jill-duggar-dillard-husband-derick-reveal-stillbirth-baby-no-4-girl-8631327

[Stevie Nicks]

I feel bad for them. I hope they can heal. I can't imagine their pain. Didn't Jill have another miscarriage before or was that another one of the girls? 

[GeeGolly]

2 minutes ago, Stevie Nicks said:

I feel bad for them. I hope they can heal. I can't imagine their pain. Didn't Jill have another miscarriage before or was that another one of the girls? 

Yes, Jill miscarried before Fred. IIRC, all the sisters have miscarried at least once and Joy had a stillbirth. 

[Notabug]

On 4/15/2024 at 12:09 PM, GeeGolly said:

My friend's child had no obvious anomalies so she was offered an autopsy at $1000 cash. As she said, "not to sound cold, but we can't afford that". Her OB said its rare to know why one miscarries, even after an autopsy.

 

Before 20 weeks or so, it really isn't possible to do an autopsy, the baby is just too small to see much.  Usually, the pathologist will do a gross overview of the baby's body, looking for obvious anomalies like cleft palate or low set ears which can be an indication that there were other problems.  While the pathologist can open the body to look to see that the basic organs are present and in the correct position/look normal but really cannot see fine details or the structures.  Before 20 weeks, I wouldn't call it an autopsy but a pathologic exam.  Also, if the fetus appears grossly normal for its gestational age, the odds are good that a survey of the internal anatomy will also be normal.  Pathologic exams on fetuses at any age are usually not very helpful, and even more so before 20 weeks.

When I encountered parents with midtrimester losses, I would counsel them that a path exam could certainly be done, but that, the vast majority of the time, nothing useful would be discovered.  I would also tell parents that if we already had a good idea what happened: cord wrapped around the neck 4 times, a placental abruption; the pathologist wasn't going to give us any different information.

Edited April 16 by Notabug

[GeeGolly]

1 hour ago, Notabug said:

Before 20 weeks or so, it really isn't possible to do an autopsy, the baby is just too small to see much.  Usually, the pathologist will do a gross overview of the baby's body, looking for obvious anomalies like cleft palate or low set ears which can be an indication that there were other problems.  While the pathologist can open the body to look to see that the basic organs are present and in the correct position/look normal but really cannot see fine details or the structures.  Before 20 weeks, I wouldn't call it an autopsy but a pathologic exam.  Also, if the fetus appears grossly normal for its gestational age, the odds are good that a survey of the internal anatomy will also be normal.  Pathologic exams on fetuses at any age are usually not very helpful, and even more so before 20 weeks.

When I encountered parents with midtrimester losses, I would counsel them that a path exam could certainly be done, but that, the vast majority of the time, nothing useful would be discovered.  I would also tell parents that if we already had a good idea what happened: cord wrapped around the neck 4 times, a placental abruption; the pathologist wasn't going to give us any different information.

My friend's child was beyond 20 weeks. I can't remember the exact number of weeks but the infant had to be buried/cremated. Maybe she was 26 weeks?

My friend does have 2 healthy children. One born a few years before her loss and the other about 2 years after the loss.

[Dianaofthehunt]

I truly hope Jill and Derek stop having children.

[Salacious Kitty]

18 minutes ago, Dianaofthehunt said:

I truly hope Jill and Derek stop having children.

I think they'll keep going until Jill has another medical emergency. 

[awaken]

3 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I think they'll keep going until Jill has another medical emergency. 

Unfortunately she and the infants already have, or nearly so, and they won’t stop. 

[GeeGolly]

18 hours ago, awaken said:

Unfortunately she and the infants already have, or nearly so, and they won’t stop. 

Oh right, each birth was complicated by some type of medical issue.

[Snow Fairy]

I have a feeling they wanted to try for a girl. Honestly after Freddie I thought she was done with pregnancies.

[GeeGolly]

Has Jill had 3 C-sections and gallbladder surgery?

[Salacious Kitty]

8 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Has Jill had 3 C-sections and gallbladder surgery?

Yup.