Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[Churchhoney]

Fair point. The IMB may have checked them out and concluded, "These people are psychos." I would totally support that call.

 

And they wouldn't even have had to conclude that they were total psychos (although they are, obviously). They might have looked at "seem sort of psycho" and "no way do they have even the beginning of the education requirements, the wife especially" combined and easily concluded that it was too much of a risk. Actually putting somebody in the mission field would cost a lot of money. And your reputation would be riding on them. You'd be careful.

[Churchhoney]

\

it also seems that he stalked the Duggars as much as Ben and his dad did.

 

Maybe it's like calling to like. Grifters of a feather flocking together.

 

Now let's try to imagine the other guys who've come sniffing after the Duggar women. The ones that Jessa and Jana actually identify as "creeps." Remembering that Ben and Derick are the good and acceptable ones. Poor Jana, Jinger and Joy.

[Purpose to defraud]

Does anyone know if this whole thing is illegal or just unethical? Can Jill and Derrick end up being arrested for any of this?

Is this Christmas in October or something? The missionaries got rejected, Jim Bob got conned, and now a possible Duggar perp walk?

[Churchhoney]

Does anyone know if this whole thing is illegal or just unethical? Can Jill and Derrick end up being arrested for any of this?

 

Well, doing stuff that your visa doesn't allow is certainly illegal. But it's not clear that they're actually doing that at present. And the countries they may have done it in certainly have much better uses for their administrative time than chasing down these two-bit losers. .... When it comes to the money -- I guess you can pretty much ask anybody you want for cash, and if they give it to you it's their problem, right? ... There might be some tax issues regrading the non-profit. But they can say there that the money goes to support the missionaries -- and if you're running a missionary non-profit, I think that would pass muster, don't you think? The IRS isn't going to go around trying to figure out which "mission" work it should and should not deem acceptable. ....

 

So my guess is -- All they're losing is their reputations. ... Of course, their reputations were all they had.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Churchhoney

[yogi2014L]

Does anyone know if this whole thing is illegal or just unethical? Can Jill and Derrick end up being arrested for any of this?

OMG could you imagine Jilly Muffin in Jail??/

 

Now that is a tv show I would watch.

[Churchhoney]

Is this Christmas in October or something?

 

Maybe it's chickens coming home to roost?

 

Whatever it is, I like it.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Churchhoney

[BitterApple]

Although I still think this whole thing is only a year out from totally going down in flames.

Oh, absolutely. What benefitted the Duggars prior to the Josh scandals was the fact that, for the most part, they really weren't a media target. Aside from their leg humpers and hate watchers most of America vaguely knew them as that "weird religious family." Now the cat's out of the bag and they're facing a higher level of scrutiny, and they're not handling it well.

Between Jill's grifting and Jessa's snotty Instagram posts, they're going to crash and burn pretty quickly.

[Fuzzysox]

Now I'm convinced that Derick got fired from Walmart.

 

The Dullards moved out of their home without a Plan B. Can't get any dumber. 

 

All I keep hearing in my head is John Cougar's song "When the Walls Come Crumbling down."

[Julia]

This is what confuses me. If they need the sponsorship of a church for visa purposes, doesn't Jim Bob own one?

It also confuses me that an able-bodied college-educated young man with no college debt and enough money to play 'volunteer coordinator' overseas for a couple of years straight out of college couldn't manage to pull together a fairly small number of post-graduate credits to do what he wants to do with his life. He could have been doing distance learning from Nepal, if he was determined to go. Then he was in seminary central for a year in AR.

It's just difficult for me to believe that someone whose specialty was regulatory compliance couldn't figure that out.

Jill, I can understand. She had her shady certificate to study for, and I doubt she'd be willing to give the non-Gothard answers she'd need to pass eight credits of SBC-approved theology.

Seems like a bad decision. It looks as if they have everything else they'd need - television cameras, a complete lack of shame, and an intimate knowledge of the tax code.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Julia

[Mollie]

Does anyone know if this whole thing is illegal or just unethical? Can Jill and Derrick end up being arrested for any of this?

There is a lot of information on the Internet about the tax laws for non-profits.  Basically, the directors of a non-profit can't use the funds for their own inurement or for their relatives.

For instance, you can't just expense airline tickets because you want to go to someone's wedding.  Also, if directors are also employees of the non-profit, they can't receive a disproportionate share of the revenue.  The Dillards will have to demonstrate that every penny they spend is for the legitimate work of the ministry.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/eotopicc90.pdf

 

What is at stake for them are fines, penalties, losing non-profit status, and NEVER being allowed to be on the board of directors of a non-profit again.  ZIP!  End of game.  Career Over.

[Churchhoney]

This is what confuses me. If they need the sponsorship of a church for visa purposes, doesn't Jim Bob own one?

 

 

 

 

Can somebody explain how Jim Bob's church is actually set up? Does he have a real nonprofit that's their church? What's the name of it? Is it officially his? Or somehow owned by their whole "congregation?' Or is it kind of imaginary? Or what?

 

... Maybe they not only needed a church for visa purposes but wanted one with a congregation big enough -- and as-yet-untapped-by-Duggars -- to use for a lot of fundraisers? I'd assume that Jim Bob's church is really small and consists of leghumpers who already give their all to various Duggars?

Edited October 6, 2015 by Churchhoney

[BitterApple]

How are they operating as a non-profit if they don't even have the correct visas to do mission work in Central America? I'm guessing that's why they have such an ambiguous mission statement on their website.

The whole thing sounds like a scam to me.

Edited October 6, 2015 by BitterApple

[amitville]

How are they operating as a non-profit if they don't even have the correct visas to do mission work in Central America?

The whole thing sounds like a scam to me.

  I am just so sick to my stomach an entire clan of grifters

Edited October 6, 2015 by amitville

[JoanArc]

 

And when you put it together with the earlier Inquisitr story (September 23) *about Derick being in Nepal on a student visa rather than a work visa -- which meant that he couldn't legally work in Nepal -- it really makes you wonder what his deal with missions really is.

Hadn't he already graduated? Not sure of the timeline on that, but if so, that's a damn liberal student visa.

 

 

OMG could you imagine Jilly Muffin in Jail??/

 

Now that is a tv show I would watch.

Overpermed hair is the new black.

 

 

Is this Christmas in October or something? The missionaries got rejected, Jim Bob got conned, and now a possible Duggar perp walk?

I really think this'll nuke Jill's special. Now we need to find evidence of Jessa worshipping Satan, or something.

 

 

The Dillards will have to demonstrate that every penny they spend is for the legitimate work of the ministry.

Edited October 6, 2015 by JoanArc

[Churchhoney]

There is a lot of information on the Internet about the tax laws for non-profits.  Basically, the directors of a non-profit can't use the funds for their own inurement or for their relatives.

For instance, you can't just expense airline tickets because you want to go to someone's wedding.  Also, if directors are also employees of the non-profit, they can't receive a disproportionate share of the revenue.  The Dillards will have to demonstrate that every penny they spend is for the legitimate work of the ministry.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/eotopicc90.pdf

 

What is at stake for them are fines, penalties, losing non-profit status, and NEVER being allowed to be on the board of directors of a non-profit again.  ZIP!  End of game.  Career Over.

 

It would be nice to think that they actually could get into trouble for their bullshit, but I really doubt that the IRS would spend their increasingly limited time on these people Especially since they claim to be doing religious work, which tends to be given even more of a pass because the feds don't want to wade into the extremely risky politics of it all. And there's obviously huge huge leeway given to stuff like "administrative expenses" for all nonprofits, too. Just look at how very very little the nonprofit rating groups say is actual program spending in the vast majority of nonprofits. And how few of them ever get even investigated, let alone fined or shut down. The rules are there, but enforcement is largely a joke in the nonprofit sector, has been for years and is only becoming more of a joke with time, as I understand it...

 

And these guys are the epitome of small potatoes. Because I still can't imagine anybody gave them very much money -- and with all this stuff coming out, the amounts are likely to dwindle from a never-very-high peak.

[Lemur]

I highly doubt anyone is going to jail or getting their special torpedoed over this.  It is, however, a familiar stop in the downward trajectory of many a televangelist.  

[Churchhoney]

How are they operating as a non-profit if they don't even have the correct visas to do mission work in Central America? I'm guessing that's why they have such an ambiguous mission statement on their website.

The whole thing sounds like a scam to me.

 

It's also not clear to me what the actual "operations' or "programs" of their nonprofit is being portrayed to be. I wonder what, exactly, they tell all the dupes at Cross Church and so on at their fundraisers? Because aren't they currently kinda sorta working for the S.O.S. guy's scam ...er ... mission (or volunteering, I guess -- although, in another lie, they clearly played that as working for the guy when they talked up Derick's new opening opportunity in the mission field...)? So do they plan to split off from him at some point and start their own missioncation enterprise? Or is their nonprofit set up just to fundraise for his organization? Or what?  You know you're really an idiot grifter when you don't even have a plan for your own scam. And I kind of think they don't.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Churchhoney]

Hadn't he already graduated? Not sure of the timeline on that, but if so, that's a damn liberal student visa.

 

 

Not only had he graduated. I think he'd graduated a whole year before he went. .... In a tweet shown in that article, though, I think he called it a year-long "study" visa. Perhaps that's different from a "student" visa? Or maybe he was actually "studying" missionarying with some group? Or Nepal lets you use that type of visa for language study or something? ... It's also very curious to me that they seem to show his LInked In -- and it doesn't mention any organization he was working for in Nepal. (although I haven't looked at his real LInkedIn so maybe the article just didn't copy that part, so I could be wrong about this ..) If there is no employer listed, though, what kind of resume doesn't list an employer unless you're freelance in some capacity -- but since when can you be a freelance volunteer coordinator? Maybe he's trying to hide the name of some shady employer?

Edited October 6, 2015 by Churchhoney

[JoanArc]

 

I highly doubt anyone is going to jail or getting their special torpedoed over this.

Jail, no, but when the whole special is about their brave move to be missionaries, and that's been revealed to be a scam...what's left? 19kac never aired with any serious media backlash. We'll just see what TLC does. If Jessa's show doesn't get ratings we'll never see Jill's, anyway.

[amitville]

Jail, no, but when the whole special is about their brave move to be missionaries, and that's been revealed to be a scam...what's left? 19kac never aired with any serious media backlash. We'll just see what TLC does. If Jessa's show doesn't get ratings we'll never see Jill's, anyway.

I really do not understand how tlc is still going forward.  The Duggars have cooked there own goose.  

[Churchhoney]

I really do not understand how tlc is still going forward.  The Duggars have cooked there own goose.  

 

Didn't I read somewhere that TLC has recently been at the very bottom of cable ratings? Maybe they're as desperate these days as Duggar Generation Two?

[Wellfleet]

I highly doubt anyone is going to jail or getting their special torpedoed over this.  It is, however, a familiar stop in the downward trajectory of many a televangelist.  

 

The increasing level of this kind of media attention is going to hurt the Duggars [Dillards, Seewalds etc] in the very worst way possible. For them. Fewer donations from an ever-dwindling group of leg-humping fans. Plus no one will turn around anymore to marvel at them when the whole gang piles into the local pizza place or Chick-fil-A [or however it's spelled].

[Defrauder]

Derick lists 'Spanish speaking' as one of his skills on his Linked-In profile.  Didn't he say something about needing to take Spanish courses?

[Purpose to defraud]

Derick lists 'Spanish speaking' as one of his skills on his Linked-In profile.  Didn't he say something about needing to take Spanish courses?

Following the Catholic sex abuse scandals, I became familiar with the term "mental reservation." 

Essentially it gave a cleric license to lie, as long as they had a good excuse. Or wanted to.

I don't know why that just popped into my head!

[Wellfleet]

Not only had he graduated. I think he'd graduated a whole year before he went. .... In a tweet shown in that article, though, I think he called it a year-long "study" visa. Perhaps that's different from a "student" visa? Or maybe he was actually "studying" missionarying with some group? Or Nepal lets you use that type of visa for language study or something? ... It's also very curious to me that they seem to show his LInked In -- and it doesn't mention any organization he was working for in Nepal. (although I haven't looked at his real LInkedIn so maybe the article just didn't copy that part, so I could be wrong about this ..) If there is no employer listed, though, what kind of resume doesn't list an employer unless you're freelance in some capacity -- but since when can you be a freelance volunteer coordinator? Maybe he's trying to hide the name of some shady employer?

 

Agree. Makes me very curious about what Derick did - if anything - during the year between graduating and going to Nepal. Personally I think he was living off his mother/stepfather and/or the remains of any life insurance survivor benefits he may have received. Doesn't sound like he was conducting a careful and sober job search either. He considered a day of softball, swimming and Spiderman worthy of a Twitter entry. And even if he was job-hunting, he wasn't successful. He finally needed his Mom to get him in at WalMart.

 

Come on Derick, if you were gainfully occupied with something more than sports, video games & movies, let us know. If you actually ARE doing something valuable and substantial with your donations, let us know. It's the absence of information that makes people question things. That and the whitewashed language on LinkedIn - but then a lot of people are pretty good at making Nothing sound like Something.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Wellfleet

[kokapetl]

Work visas are generally for paid work, so what he did in Nepal is probably okay as long as he was studying.

[TaxNerd]

Not only had he graduated. I think he'd graduated a whole year before he went.

What did he do in the year between graduation and his mission trip? He wasn't working at Wal-Mart then.

Also, has the production company for the specials been announced as the same crew? The only way I would be interested on watching is if they changed the tone of the series.

It needs to be a little more showcasing the crazy and less fluff the family sets up, a la the infamous Bobby Brown reality show with Whitney Houston.

[amitville]

Derick lists 'Spanish speaking' as one of his skills on his Linked-In profile.  Didn't he say something about needing to take Spanish courses?

Oh dear lord  Derrick is in for the long con.  He must have made his Mamma proud.  

[Wellfleet]

One thing is for sure. From now on, I won't be naively thinking "Oh maybe this is the person who will rescue So-and-So from this awful fate..." when each potential new Duggar in-law is paraded out. Anyone whacked enough to even THINK about joining this family is going to have to prove his/her own sanity first. No more automatic granting of the Benefit of the Doubt. Once bitten, twice shy.

[TaxNerd]

There is a lot of information on the Internet about the tax laws for non-profits. Basically, the directors of a non-profit can't use the funds for their own inurement or for their relatives.

For instance, you can't just expense airline tickets because you want to go to someone's wedding. Also, if directors are also employees of the non-profit, they can't receive a disproportionate share of the revenue. The Dillards will have to demonstrate that every penny they spend is for the legitimate work of the ministry.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/eotopicc90.pdf

What is at stake for them are fines, penalties, losing non-profit status, and NEVER being allowed to be on the board of directors of a non-profit again. ZIP! End of game. Career Over.

This is interesting, thank you.

At this point, I vote unethical, not fraud. A WHOLE lot of non profits spend big bucks on fundraising, which they did do both trips back. You really have to be careful where your charity dollars go.

[Julia]

Student - Volunteer Coordinator

Volunteer

January 2012 – January 2014 (2 years 1 month) Kathmandu, Nepal

I spent two years living in Kathmandu, Nepal. I led volunteer teams from America into Himalayan mountain villages as we helped in aiding Tibetan refugees. This mainly included service projects, training, and education for Tibetans and Nepalese. Trips lasted up to a month of living in the mountains. I was responsible for every aspect of the trip including, but not limited to travel logistics, lodging, food, training material, collection of materials for projects, and decision making while working.

[JoanArc]

So he booked bus tickets and lodging for visitors in Nepal. I hope someday he realizes what a really great opportunity he blew in leaving Walmart.

[PityFree]

It speaks volumes to me that Derrick's description of his "work" in Nepal didn't include any real detail about the "service projects" he was supposedly doing. That's the meat of the missionary work. If I were looking at his LinkdIn as an employer, I'd want to know the specifics of what he did and what skills he used and/or learned. What kind of service projects did he do? Just how did he contribute to travel logistics? Did he arrange for delivery of food supplies? Or did he consider his eating his lunch every day "taking responsibility for food"? What kind of materials did he collect, how did he do it, and what kinds of projects did he collect supplies for?? Without details about what he did and what skills he used, I'd have to assume that he did nothing of value. If he had done anything of value he would have included it.  

[Fuzzysox]

Why did they move out of their house if not enough money was/is coming in from their "supporters."

[amitville]

Why did they move out of their house if not enough money was/is coming in from their "supporters."

Another piece of the Duggar puzzle.  Seems they are moving or selling houses.   

Edited October 6, 2015 by amitville

[Churchhoney]

I guess this scenario should have occurred to us all back when we first knew that Ben is a would-be (kinda scammy?) preacher/televangelist and Derick a would-be (definitely scammy) missionary/runner of international missioncation group. A little too coincidental that the two guys who persevered to snag the Duggar girls were both guys with some of the few career ambitions that a Duggar connection might conceivably boost. They both saw themselves climbing to career heights on the shoulders of Jim Bob, Jessa and Jill. Interest in Jessa and Jill was secondary to their ambitions, I'm thinking, even in the case of horny Ben.

Why did they move out of their house if not enough money was/is coming in from their "supporters."

 

Maybe if they'd stayed there Jim Bob would have made them keep paying the utilities and taxes or something? ... You'd need a ton of donations for that.

[CofCinci]

Maybe if they'd stayed there Jim Bob would have made them keep paying the utilities and taxes or something? ... You'd need a ton of donations for that.

I definitely see JB as the type who would make Derick pay the utilities and taxes. Ben too.

Josh will probably get a free month or two but then it's straight to the house flipping.

[JoanArc]

 

I definitely see JB as the type who would make Derick pay the utilities and taxes. Ben too.

I think Jim bob would pay the taxes and utils, just to lord it over them, and keep them on the hook for 'paying'  it back.

 

 

I want to add that to my own resumé. I make decisions while working, too!

Someone else is obviously running his private life!

[louannems]

Perhaps the visa/immigration authorities in foreign countries don't recognize some non-ordained (or self-ordained) guy with a warehouse, as constituting a church, for their visa/immigration purposes.

 

It's probably not nearly as easy to get your "church" recognized by foreign immigration authorities, as it is to become and be recognized as a "church" for some domestic legal purposes here in the USA.

I think it was Jinger who said she recognized that she was "a terrible sinner" at age 8, and Her Father baptized her!

[Purpose to defraud]

One thing is for sure. From now on, I won't be naively thinking "Oh maybe this is the person who will rescue So-and-So from this awful fate..." when each potential new Duggar in-law is paraded out. Anyone whacked enough to even THINK about joining this family is going to have to prove his/her own sanity first. No more automatic granting of the Benefit of the Doubt. Once bitten, twice shy.

 

I guess this scenario should have occurred to us all back when we first knew that Ben is a would-be (kinda scammy?) preacher/televangelist and Derick a would-be (definitely scammy) missionary/runner of international missioncation group. A little too coincidental that the two guys who persevered to snag the Duggar girls were both guys with some of the few career ambitions that a Duggar connection might conceivably boost. They both saw themselves climbing to career heights on the shoulders of Jim Bob, Jessa and Jill. Interest in Jessa and Jill was secondary to their ambitions, I'm thinking, even in the case of horny Ben.

 

Maybe if they'd stayed there Jim Bob would have made them keep paying the utilities and taxes or something? ... You'd need a ton of donations for that.

Hearing that Ben wanted to be an actor sent up a red flag to me. I had not realized that until very recently. I wonder if Mr. Dullard ever held thespian ambitions, maybe during his "lost year." I'm just joking about Derrick, but then today I read that he HAD been to the TTH before Nepal. Creepy on both their parts. And these are the accepted suitors.

[JenCarroll]

Does anyone know if this whole thing is illegal or just unethical? Can Jill and Derrick end up being arrested for any of this?

Fined, if anything.

[Churchhoney]

Hearing that Ben wanted to be an actor sent up a red flag to me. I had not realized that until very recently. I wonder if Mr. Dullard ever held thespian ambitions, maybe during his "lost year." I'm just joking about Derrick, but then today I read that he HAD been to the TTH before Nepal. Creepy on both their parts. And these are the accepted suitors.

 

Indeed. And then along comes Marjorie.

 

For all the ways that JB and M messed up their kids' lives, reality tv added layers and layers of mess to it. Layers of mess and a cherry on top. Horrible to think that you couldn't trust anyone you were seeing to actually want you for yourself -- especially when you are very much just a regular person with no actual cause for your celebrity. At least if you're a famous actor or politician or beauty queen or something, ambitious would-be partners actually pursue you because of some talent you have or something you did. With the Duggar kids, the whole draw is likely to be their utterly unearned (and maybe unsought, at least initially, for some of them) celebrity.

[JoanArc]

 

Indeed. And then along comes Marjorie.

Beat me to it! At least Jessa and Ben's families had mingled when they were both little kids, pre-fame. Derick gets creepier the more we get to know him. Why the Duggars, and Jill, of all people?

[Lemur]

I want to add that to my own resumé... Derick isn't the only one capable of thought. I can make decisions, too!

I think we should all purpose to include that phrase on our mid or end of year reviews.  I've laid it on your hearts. 

[Churchhoney]

 

 

ETA: You will notice that it doesn't characterize his decision-making ability as being prudent or responsible or some other nice adjective. He can just make a decision. 

 

Good point.  He doesn't say what he made decisions about, to whom his decisions applied, or describe the quantity or quality of decisions made. .... Essentially, his statement could apply just as easily to the workday of a newborn infant. It'd be kind of genius if there were the slightest chance that any would-be employer would take it at face value.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Missy Vixen]

Fair point. The IMB may have checked them out and concluded, "These people are psychos." I would totally support that call.

Jilly Muffin and derickdillardduggar seem to forget that the rest of the world does not have to ask someone else for the computer password to do a Google search. Her family's year is right there in all its glory for anyone to read about, including the fact that JM and her siblings have not had one minute of meaningful counseling/other assistance re: the molestation in their parents' home. I wonder how long it will be before Jilly Muffin is back on a certain news channel giving another tearful interview about being "revictimized by the media".

 

I'm with you: This couple is not ready for the mission field and may never be. They think the rest of us are stupid enough to believe/financially support their missioncations. And one has to wonder if they'll have problems getting additional tourist visas in the future.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Missy Vixen

[Missy Vixen]

It'd be kind of genius if there were the slightest chance that any would-be employer would take it at face value.

Any would-be employer would actually ask him questions about the "decisions" he made, who they affected, whether or not the outcome was positive, and how he believed his decisions would aid the company to which he was applying.

 

Good luck trying that one in the future, derickdillardduggar. Then again, I'm betting you already have and it didn't go so well, did it?

[BitterApple]

And then along comes Marjorie.

Who conveniently bailed shortly after the show was cancelled and is now worming her way back into the picture upon news of the upcoming specials.

The Duggars are pretty shallow people so it's no wonder they're attracting spouses who have visions of stardom in their heads.

Edited October 6, 2015 by BitterApple

[JoanArc]

What kills me about this whole thing is, as though Josh's scandal wasn't enough, in the midst of the whole thing, Jill and Derrick made the decision to run some kind of missionary scam. This family's audacity is astounding.

"Go with what you know."

 

Lizard-brain response at it's finest.

Edited October 6, 2015 by JoanArc

[Julia]

I wonder how long it will be before Jilly Muffin is back on a certain news channel giving another tearful interview about being "revictimized by the media".

 

At least this time it will have some internal consistency. The first time she claimed to have been revictimized despite insisting that she was never victimized to begin with. Now she'll have earlier incidents of media 'victimization' to point to.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Julia