Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Aethera]

A reminder - we're not allowing speculation as to whether the other Duggar boys have also molested anyone - there's no proof or rumor or indication that they have, and they've been through enough with this madness already. Going to Alert was something they all did. Thanks.

[Potato511]

I still wonder how the incest was initially revealed. How would anyone outside of the immediate family have known about that (even if they knew about the non-family victims)? Would JB have let that out intentionally, even within the cult?

[JoanArc]

 

It's a completely different culture, a very different world.  Normal people just can't imagine something like this because it is so very different.

Regardless of who knew/didn't know what this is something we all need to keep in mind. That world is a funhouse mirror, and now we mental damage and mental illness added to the mix.

 

It occurs to me that they didn't have to keep it secret forever. NO ONE knew the show would go on for 10 years, be super popular, and make lots of money. Even now they just needed another 5 years or so of media attention to be set for life financially. If it came out long after the show was over, say 10 years, I don't think there'd be as big a hullabaloo, even though it deserves one.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I really think this is going to be a domino effect in many ways. I think for Josh, this will cause a very public meltdown of epic proportions. Several DUIs, mug shots on TMZ, other victims will come forward etc. This is just the beginning. Everyone will be watching his every move.

I second this. I think we may get a full-on meltdown as more stuff comes out - and I definitely think there's more stuff to come out.

If Josh felt like he could do this multiple times to his sisters, who were always dressed modestly, what did he do or try to do with "worldy" women once he was in DC or otherwise out in public unchaperoned? If Gothard teaches that girls are asking for it by dressing in pants, shorts, tank tops, bathing suits, work out clothes, etc - did Josh think all these worldy women he encountered in DC or elsewhere were asking for it even more? I wouldn't be surprised to hear about him sexually harassing someone if not something worse. Surely in DC everywhere he went women were "defrauding" him- how did he treat those women?

Where did the chest binding stuff come from? I have never once heard that the Duggars make their daughters do this.

Chest binding?!!! Is this actually a thing? I seriously didn't know "chest binding" was a thing (even in Fundie culture). The first thing I do when I get home is take my bra off. I can't imagine having to keep your chest bound at all times - even in your own home! How uncomfortable!

Edited May 26, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[lottiedottie]

I understand what you're saying - and I have no problem with Julia Roberts, for example, telling reporters "No questions about my kids or my personal life" because she's being interviewed about the movie she's promoting. Not her own life. But the Duggars whole "drawing" point - the reason they were offered a TV spot in the first place - was how different they were from the "average American family." It seems very natural to me that people would have questions about their lifestyle and the beliefs behind it. If they were so OK with it all, why wouldn't they share it?

Because they really have no obligation to? They may not be celebrities on the level of Julia Roberts, but even the Duggars think they are entitled to not answer any questions they deem inappropriate. That's my guess, anyway. I get the sense that the public and media were curious about them because they are outside the norm, and people wanted to know more about them. So they had the power. They could say "Yes, we'll agree to an interview, but here are some things we won't discuss..." If you are a media outlet, you want access and you are willing to agree to their terms to get a story--because coverage of these weirdos gets viewers/readers/ratings. It's a mutually beneficial situation--The Duggars agree to an interview given certain parameters.They get exposure, which translates into money. The media company gets a story that may get them ratings/pageviews, which also translates into money.

 

Right or wrong, that's just the way it works, I think.

[TheFinalRose]

I have a question. I have watched a lot of the shows, and I know who some of the lil'Duggars are. Here are the characters I know: Josh, Anna, Jessa, Ben, Jill & Derrik, Jinger.  And then there are a  bunch of little kids who all look alike.

 

The ones who don't stick out in my mind are Janna (jana?) and does she have a twin named JD?  I think that is what I have picked up over the past few days mainly from this board. So Janna and JD are the ones that Josh made the joke that was recently featured on People magazine's website which went something like: Jana and JD can be Josh and Anna's chaperone and it would be like a double date cuz they are from Arkansas, y'all.  People called it an "incest" joke.

 

So, did I also read on this board that JD is the only Duggar kid who is not married that doesn't live with the family? Did I imagine that? Is that true? If so, why is he living somewhere else?  

 

 

 

[autumnh]

Bin posted this shortly after he and Jessa started courting..........thoughts?

 

 

 

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

Bin posted this shortly after he and Jessa started courting..........thoughts?

This gives me some hope that Jessa has found support in Ben that is better than what she had in her own parents. And it makes me hope against hope that they (if Jessa wants to) may break away from this mess. Edited May 26, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[Maizie131]

Quiverfull of Shit....good article.

 

http://gawker.com/quiverfull-of-shit-a-guide-to-the-duggars-scary-brand-1706557073?utm_campaign=socialflow_gawker_facebook&utm_source=gawker_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

Oh. My. God.  I truly had no idea, but I believe every word of it.

[Found A Peanut]

I think you make some really good points, but I still wonder whether and why Josh and company woudl have explicitly described his "mistake" to Anna -- who was clearly picked out to save the situation by quickly marrying Josh and making him a good Christian dad --  when they put it so vaguely and softpedal it so much in every other statement we're aware of (not that there haven't been statements we're not aware of).

 

And I can certainly see people at Free Jinger trying to make sure somebody was informed, but I don't know that there was a Free-Jinger-type insider available in the Josh-and-Anna courtship, was there? There was the unknown Oprah whistleblower, of course, but somebody who could easily email Harpo Productions couldn't necessarily reach Anna by similar means ..... And I keep thinking of Doug Phillips. I haven't followed the sickening Lourdes situation closely, but has anybody ever said that DP described that situation to them as anything but as a basically consensual sexual affair (which it so was not)? Seems that the actual perpetrators of these things (and their close supporters, like their parents, in Josh's case) mostly continue to whitewash things and describe them as vaguely as they can manage even while they're ostensibly "confessing.

 

I really think the jury's still out on what Anna knew in advance.

There's just no comparison, I think, between what statements are made to outsiders who are "of the world" and insiders in the movement or from the Duggar home church. A LOT of people in the home church knew exactly what happened, that's how it leaked out onto the Internet in such specific detail all those years ago. The Duggar home church believes in public confession of sins before the church. But Jim Bob still stonewalled the police investigation when Harpo turned them in after the anonymous tip. Of course they soft pedal it to outsiders. But Anna and her family were not at all outsiders.

So far as Doug Phillips, I think there you have the difference between flock and shepherd or, rather, between the sheep and the con who's fleecing them. No, I've never heard of him admitting to sexual assault and rape. Neither has Gothard admitted to the full truth of his grooming, harassment, and molestation of young women. The Patriarchs have at least that much in common with wider society - leaders often grant themselves special exemptions from the rules. Phillips and Gothard are just especially loathsome examples of it.

[Iguessnot]

 

 

Its on yt: 19 Kids And Counting | Season 10 Episode 21 | Digging In With the Duggars | May 19, 2015

I have Tivo with Comcast Xfinity DC Metro area and it was labeling the current season as season 9. Last night I was able to watch the gender announcement episode, but most times I received various error messages when trying to access other on demand episodes. That's why I quickly picked up the episode on Amazon. Today, the Duggars have disappeared from Xfinity on Demand

Edited May 26, 2015 by Iguessnot

[Chalby]

I agree with you. I think she knew that he made some "bad mistakes as a young teenager that were sexual in nature." Period. She'd count that as "knowing" because that's still how he and the rents describe it, basically.

But don't forget, Anna is a good daughter. Her father accepted Josh as a suitor, so despite any reservations she may have had, she couldn't go against her father.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

A lot of us are assuming that the family will blame Josh if (or when) the TLC gravy train ends. I'm really worried that instead of blaming Josh, they'll blame the girls.

[bluebonnet]

Because they really have no obligation to? They may not be celebrities on the level of Julia Roberts, but even the Duggars think they are entitled to not answer any questions they deem inappropriate. That's my guess, anyway. I get the sense that the public and media were curious about them because they are outside the norm, and people wanted to know more about them. So they had the power. They could say "Yes, we'll agree to an interview, but here are some things we won't discuss..." If you are a media outlet, you want access and you are willing to agree to their terms to get a story--because coverage of these weirdos gets viewers/readers/ratings. It's a mutually beneficial situation--The Duggars agree to an interview given certain parameters.They get exposure, which translates into money. The media company gets a story that may get them ratings/pageviews, which also translates into money.

 

Right or wrong, that's just the way it works, I think.

The problem is, they were never even given hard questions based on what they said in interviews.  Michelle can tell her bikini story of how she's in charge of men's sexuality, and no journalist ever said "hey, you're full of shit because in the real world, men manage to not rape and harass all the time."  Maybe the Duggars didn't want their political work to be part of the interview (so no discussing their intense bigotry).  But what they brought to interviews should be fair game.  

[Shibori]

I'm afraid the way this was presented to Anna was that the abuse happened and it was the girls fault, and that if she (Anna) and any future daughters didn't "defraud" or tempt Josh then there wouldn't be anything to worry about. Thus, it's all within her control (which she might find comforting) but also entirely her fault if things go bad.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

But don't forget, Anna is a good daughter. Her father accepted Josh as a suitor, so despite any reservations she may have had, she couldn't go against her father.

I agree and I shudder to think what Anna may have experienced being married to & forced to always submit to this creep.

[bluebonnet]

I'm afraid the way this was presented to Anna was that the abuse happened and it was the girls fault, and that if she (Anna) and any future daughters didn't "defraud" or tempt Josh then there wouldn't be anything to worry about. Thus, it's all within her control (which she might find comforting) but also entirely her fault if things go bad.

Based on their statements to the press and on the Gothard teaching and testimonials all over the internet, that's almost certainly how it was presented.  

[Churchhoney]

There's just no comparison, I think, between what statements are made to outsiders who are "of the world" and insiders in the movement or from the Duggar home church. A LOT of people in the home church knew exactly what happened, that's how it leaked out onto the Internet in such specific detail all those years ago. The Duggar home church believes in public confession of sins before the church. But Jim Bob still stonewalled the police investigation when Harpo turned them in after the anonymous tip. Of course they soft pedal it to outsiders. But Anna and her family were not at all outsiders.

So far as Doug Phillips, I think there you have the difference between flock and shepherd or, rather, between the sheep and the con who's fleecing them. No, I've never heard of him admitting to sexual assault and rape. Neither has Gothard admitted to the full truth of his grooming, harassment, and molestation of young women. The Patriarchs have at least that much in common with wider society - leaders often grant themselves special exemptions from the rules. Phillips and Gothard are just especially loathsome examples of it.

 

Yeah, it's funny. I do feel sure that the Keller parents knew, and that that part played out exactly as you say.

 

For some reason, I still have this image of everybody talking kind of vaguely around Anna -- I guess it's because I think of all the older generation clubbing together and deciding that she MUST be married off to Josh in a big hurry and then sort of soft-pedaling everything in her presence to ensure that she'll be thrilled. Don't get that idea from anywhere except from a scene that's played out in my head, though! I guess I see them treating Anna like a child-woman who wouldn't count among the adults and as a very important means to an end. ... But, as I said, all in my head, perhaps.

[autumnh]

A lot of us are assuming that the family will blame Josh if (or when) the TLC gravy train ends. I'm really worried that instead of blaming Josh, they'll blame the girls.

 

I think most of us realize that they will blame the girls...the girls have no hierarchy...smuggar is heads and tails above the rest...he is the precious one.

 

 

So sickening.

[Chalby]

It's a completely different culture, a very different world.  Normal people just can't imagine something like this because it is so very different.  But if Anna and her parents didn't act exactly as she claims they did, it would be an indication that they weren't actually good Gothardites.  

If Anna and Josh are expected to confess their innermost thoughts to their parents, who would Jimbob and Michelle be expected to confess to? I am sure they have had inappropriate fantasies, despite evidence showing they are not 'normal', heh.

[autumnh]

Yeah, it's funny. I do feel sure that the Keller parents knew, and that that part played out exactly as you say.

 

For some reason, I still have this image of everybody talking kind of vaguely around Anna -- I guess it's because I think of all the older generation clubbing together and deciding that she MUST be married off to Josh in a big hurry and then sort of soft-pedaling everything in her presence to ensure that she'll be thrilled. Don't get that idea from anywhere except from a scene that's played out in my head, though! I guess I see them treating Anna like a child-woman who wouldn't count among the adults and as a very important means to an end. ... But, as I said, all in my head, perhaps.

 

Anna's sister, Susanna seemingly threw up the WTF ever flag and did her own thing...the Duggars did NOT approve. 

 

 

Ohhhh....just goes to show how far reaching their ridiculous power is....

 

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2014/12/duggars-shun-pregnant-susanna-keller/

[Almost 3000]

I understand what you're saying - and I have no problem with Julia Roberts, for example, telling reporters "No questions about my kids or my personal life" because she's being interviewed about the movie she's promoting. Not her own life. But the Duggars whole "drawing" point - the reason they were offered a TV spot in the first place - was how different they were from the "average American family." It seems very natural to me that people would have questions about their lifestyle and the beliefs behind it. If they were so OK with it all, why wouldn't they share it?

Perhaps it was TLC that set the parameters of many interviews. The Duggars have attended events where their beliefs weren't hidden but those that hit the mainstream audience were cleaned up to show a less politically and religiously extreme family. Duck Dynasty is another example of this dishonest story telling.

[autumnh]

I have no DOUBT that TLC walked on eggshells around their moneymakers.....

[farmgal4]

I think Anna was clueless. Completely . Her dad, not so much. If my instincts are correct, and based on what other posters have suggested, he knew A LOT. That makes him just as disgusting as JB & M, maybe even more so.

If her dad knew EVERYTHING and still allowed her to marry the pervert, then he is absolutely more disgusting than JB and M. He, more than anyone, should have been looking out for her best interest, which was to NOT marry an incestuous pervert.

Edited May 26, 2015 by AmandaPanda
removed pedophile reference

[autumnh]

Perhaps it was TLC that set the parameters of many interviews. The Duggars have attended events where their beliefs weren't hidden but those that hit the mainstream audience were cleaned up to show a less politically and religiously extreme family. Duck Dynasty is another example of this dishonest story telling.

 

The Duggars were the highest rated show...hence making TLC a SHIT ton of meny... TLC would go to the ends of the earth to keep them happy and to keep the gravy train rolling.

If her dad knew EVERYTHING and still allowed her to marry the pervert, then he is absolutely more disgusting that JB and M. He, more than anyone, should have been looking out for her best interest, which was to NOT marry an incestuous pervert.

 

Her dad was also a Gothard follower....we cannot expect much from them.

Edited May 26, 2015 by AmandaPanda
removed inflammatory language from quote

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

From that article: "While Keller once was considered worthy enough to act as Anna and Josh’s courting chaperone before they tied the knot, according to the source, Keller’s slide into sin resulted in Duggar patriarch Jim Bob sitting in judgment and striking even the mention of her name from the family’s show."

Sexually abusing one's sisters MULTIPLE times is totally a childish mistake that can be forgiven and forgotten. But have sex with another consenting adult, get pregnant (I mean she didn't have an abortion, so they should be happy), etc and you are never to be spoken of again.

Anna, take your kids and go to Susannah's house now. She knows what's up with your in-laws and won't judge if you want to leave Josh.

[autumnh]

From that article: "While Keller once was considered worthy enough to act as Anna and Josh’s courting chaperone before they tied the knot, according to the source, Keller’s slide into sin resulted in Duggar patriarch Jim Bob sitting in judgment and striking even the mention of her name from the family’s show."

Sexually abusing one's sisters MULTIPLE times is totally a childish mistake that can be forgiven and forgotten. But have sex with another consenting adult, get pregnant (I mean she didn't have an abortion, so they should be happy), etc and you are never to be spoken of again.

Anna, take your kids and go to Susannah's house now. She knows what's up with your in-laws and won't judge if you want to leave Josh.

 

Yes.

[awaken]

I've been spending lots of time trying to keep up with this thread, and can't possibly read it all- but I did want to say, I have had ups and downs with these boards, but reading these posts have restored my faith in humanity.  Thank you to those of you who have shared honestly about your own past abuse.  Thank you to those who have shared support resources for those affected by abuse.  This whole tragic debacle has served the purpose for me, of re-examining my thoughts and assumptions about where/when/from whom this type of abuse can occur, and looking at what I'm going to keep my kids safe.  I hope it opens up the same sorts of thoughts and conversations for others.  

[JoanArc]

 

I have no DOUBT that TLC walked on eggshells around their moneymakers.....

IF the Michelle & The Gay Cameraman is true, then yes, yes, they did. That story also proves that the show, by design, did not expand the kid's little worlds, as many have claimed. I'd like to know if Scott Enlow was the producer then, he's got a lot to answer for, and needs to explain why he left the show.

[Gianthambeast]

From that article: "While Keller once was considered worthy enough to act as Anna and Josh’s courting chaperone before they tied the knot, according to the source, Keller’s slide into sin resulted in Duggar patriarch Jim Bob sitting in judgment and striking even the mention of her name from the family’s show."

Sexually abusing one's sisters MULTIPLE times is totally a childish mistake that can be forgiven and forgotten. But have sex with another consenting adult, get pregnant (I mean she didn't have an abortion, so they should be happy), etc and you are never to be spoken of again.

Anna, take your kids and go to Susannah's house now. She knows what's up with your in-laws and won't judge if you want to leave Josh.

Condemmning unwed mothers isn't the best way to sell your pro-life message, Jim Blob.   But oh wait, I forgot you are a total MORON with no integrity.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Gianthambeast

[Chalby]

I think Anna is Naive, JimBob is as sly as Josh, and Michelle is somewhere in the middle. 

And the saddest thing of all is that Anna was not his first choice. He had 2 failed courtships (not sure if both were to the same woman, or 2 different women). So not only does Anna adore this goof, but she has to acknowledge that she was his 3rd choice. In fact, I am sure there are others he would have gladly chosen, but Anna was the one who would not question his deviant history. I am sure JimBob paid dearly for her dowry.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

If her dad knew EVERYTHING and still allowed her to marry the pervert, then he is absolutely more disgusting that JB and M. He, more than anyone, should have been looking out for her best interest, which was to NOT marry an incestuous pedophilic (is that a word?) pervert.

I wonder how much status and financials played into the decision to marry Anna off to Josh.

First, they'd be marrying into Fundie royalty. Second, I believe Anna's family was poor - definitely when compared to the Duggars. I think the allure of social climbing and a better financial situation may have outweighed making the best decisions for Anna or even by Anna.

My guess is Anna didn't really have too much of a choice once her dad agreed, given their culture. Anna probably wasn't told much more than a vague explanation of what Josh had done. If she was, she was probably told Jesus wanted her to fix him/save him. Anna probably knew her fate in life was going to be to have too many kids with some guy she didn't know very well. Josh Duggar, gross past & all, would at least get her out of her family's trailer and into some TLC/Duggar Motors money with which to raise the numerous kids she'd have no matter which Quiverfull man she ended up with. (I'm not trying to defend why her family - and maybe Anna - married Josh knowing about his past, but I think that these reasons definitely played a part in the decision.)

ETA: Good for the other families/girls that broke off the rumored engagement with Josh. My guess is the Duggars went after Anna for him because they knew how dire her family's financial situation was and that they'd be thrilled to have their daughter marry into Fundie royalty even if the prince of Duggardom was a perv.

Edited May 26, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[NikSac]

This feels super inaccurate. One of the most interesting things about this whole thing is seeing how the story keeps changing as people keep repeating it.

 

I read the report as best as I could, cause it was really hard with so many of the words blacked out, but what I understood was that he would go into the room when the girls were asleep. There was also a similar incident with a girl who was visiting (or was it babysitting?) and fell asleep on the couch. But things escalated and there was an incident in the middle of the day in the laundry room, plus the reading book incident, which was completely different from the bolded and was probably the worst incident, imo. I found it very disturbing. It is on page 22. It was after the book incident, according to the child being interviewed, that he was sent away, almost immediately.

 

Someone correct me if I got it wrong cause, like I said, it was a headache to read.

 

Yes I had a hard time reading it too!  Between the upsetting nature of it and the blacked out words, not easy. I did re-read that book part several times, and my understanding was that he was reading a book to "all the kids" but she was sitting with him. She pulled up her dress because it had a hole in it (which I still think sounds odd, but whatever, maybe she was just looking at it or something). She had pants on underneath the dress, and he then pulled down her pants and touched her.  Here's the page if you want to look at it and see what you think: http://imgur.com/a/zqPMi#21.  (ETA: and I agree this was the worst incident - or possibly equally as bad as the laundry room one. Not that it's okay at all, but at least the sleeping girls didn't know what happened until they were told.)

Edited May 26, 2015 by NikSac

[Churchhoney]

Based on their statements to the press and on the Gothard teaching and testimonials all over the internet, that's almost certainly how it was presented.  

 

I'm afraid the way this was presented to Anna was that the abuse happened and it was the girls fault, and that if she (Anna) and any future daughters didn't "defraud" or tempt Josh then there wouldn't be anything to worry about. Thus, it's all within her control (which she might find comforting) but also entirely her fault if things go bad.

 

Makes me wonder about the more defrauding going-out clothes Anna's been wearing lately. She seems to have drifted quite a bit from the Gothard defrauding line, at least when it comes to the clothing edicts, since she's been in DC. Hope she doesn't think now that maybe it's her defrauding of men at CPAC conventions that has brought down the devil on her family. Also makes me wonder how she envisioned little girls down to age 5 dressed in prairie skirts OVER pants still manage to defraud Joshie boy. Must have been a big wedge between her and her sisters-in-law, too. And she's been letting Mackynzie wear pajama pants, too, lately, hasn't she? Hope all of this isn't coming back to haunt her and make HER feel guilty. There are enough guilty-feeling women in this situation, I'll bet. .... I almost hope that Anna blames us evil liberals and has forgotten about all the defrauding stuff.

[Zung Li]

I wonder if this will affect the ratings of TLC's new show The Submissive Wives' Guide to Marriage. It premiered last week. If it stays on for any length of time I'm sure there will end up being a scandal involving the people "starring" on the show.

Edited May 26, 2015 by mingming

[Chalby]

 I imagine her secretly reading all the websites while pretending to use the loo this weekend.

She could be reading this.

 

Thank you for posting this. I have always been puzzled with the idea that the Duggars are not allowed to access media, television etc. However, most of them (especially Anna and Josh) have snazzy new phones, websites, etc. What is stopping them from being online 24/7 on their phones? I don't think they are as sheltered as their parents imply.

[Maizie131]

I read the following on another website but couldn't have said it better myself:  "Child sex abuse isn't like other crimes.  It's not just a sin or a criminal offense that goes away once someone's caught -- it's a devastating violation of a person so horrible that victims are often not only left scarred for life, but now more likely to commit the same offenses themselves."  Those poor kids....

[Julia]

I wonder if this will affect the ratings of TLC's new show The Submissive Wives' Guide to Marriage. It premiered last week. If it stays on for any length of time I'm sure there will end up being a scandal involving the people "starring" on the show.

Thing I learned this weekend: the Handmaid's Tale reality lineup on TLC is brought to you by a wife and mother who is a career marketing executive with an ivy league degree and lives in Manhattan.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Julia

[NikSac]

I seem to recall that while reading one of the police reports- that one of the incidents happened in the TTH.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Was there more than one police report released?

[wanderwoman]

Bin posted this shortly after he and Jessa started courting..........thoughts?

 

I kept going back to thus, too. If this is what he was referring to, I have way more respect for the man. I also think I can understand why Jessa wanted to keep "the kiss" private. She took control over her sexuality and access to that moment. Good for her.

[Almost 3000]

I wonder how much status and financials played into the decision to marry Anna off to Josh.

First, they'd be marrying into Fundie royalty. Second, I believe Anna's family was poor - definitely when compared to the Duggars. I think the allure of social climbing and a better financial situation may have outweighed making the best decisions for Anna or even by Anna.

My guess is Anna didn't really have too much of a choice once her dad agreed, given their culture. Anna probably wasn't told much more than a vague explanation of what Josh had done. If she was, she was probably told Jesus wanted her to fix him/save him. Anna probably knew her fate in life was going to be to have too many kids with some guy she didn't know very well. Josh Duggar, gross past & all, would at least get her out of her family's trailer and into some TLC/Duggar Motors money with which to raise the numerous kids she'd have no matter which Quiverfull man she ended up with. (I'm not trying to defend why her family - and maybe Anna - married Josh knowing about his past, but I think that these reasons definitely played a part in the decision.)

ETA: Good for the other families/girls that broke off the rumored engagement with Josh. My guess is the Duggars went after Anna for him because they knew how dire her family's financial situation was and that they'd be thrilled to have their daughter marry into Fundie royalty even if the prince of Duggardom was a perv.

Anna's family may not have much but they are a respected family in those circles.

[Literata]

As heinous as Josh's actions were, I admit being concerned about his welfare and that of his family this weekend. He has a wife and soon-to-be four kids depending on him; I've been half-scared to get online and find he's harmed himself. I hope he's managing to keep his shit together for Anna and the kids.

And those kids ... as smart as MacKynzie is, I'm sure she realizes something is horribly wrong. I wonder how the situation is being handled, both with the M-kids and with the Lost Girls and howlers.

[wanderwoman]

I think Josh is probably going through hell and I take no joy in knowing that. I've felt that panic when a choice you made impacts your life so gravely and decidedly. Once again, I keep going back to his parents. What Josh did was unequivocally wrong and his victims were/are deserving of compassion, help, and justice. But, Josh was also deserving of real help and accountability. His parents made choices that took this from a devastating family issue to a public debate and shaming. They pushed their family into the spot light without considering the impact that fame would have if these things were revealed. They failed all of their children. Josh was a teenager - then he grew up and literally took a position on a high horse without considering how far he had to fall.

Edited May 26, 2015 by wanderwoman

[Found A Peanut]

Yeah, it's funny. I do feel sure that the Keller parents knew, and that that part played out exactly as you say.

 

For some reason, I still have this image of everybody talking kind of vaguely around Anna -- I guess it's because I think of all the older generation clubbing together and deciding that she MUST be married off to Josh in a big hurry and then sort of soft-pedaling everything in her presence to ensure that she'll be thrilled. Don't get that idea from anywhere except from a scene that's played out in my head, though! I guess I see them treating Anna like a child-woman who wouldn't count among the adults and as a very important means to an end. ... But, as I said, all in my head, perhaps.

You know, I don't think you're wrong about Anna being treated as a child-woman and as a means to an end, but I think that's what it means to be a woman in the patriarchy. If Anna's father was the main decision maker, it's still not even close to the most extreme example around of courtship and betrothal among these Christian medievalists. I do feel sorry for Anna that everything in her life was aimed at this, marriage and birthing children, and now it's all gone to hell. There are no Plan Bs for Gothard women, she's well and truly stuck unless she has it in her to break her own mold. Anna's always given the appearance of being a true blue believer, though. More so than Josh, truth be told. And it was supposedly a long courtship by Duggar standards, something like two years. I think when they were truly desperate to get him married was when he was in that alleged betrothal to the Holt girl at like 14. Insane.

[3 is enough]

 

And those kids ... as smart as MacKynzie is, I'm sure she realizes something is horribly wrong. I wonder how the situation is being handled, both with the M-kids and with the Lost Girls and howlers.

Not sure about the M-kids, but I imagine the Howlers and Lost Girls have been told nothing and have been left to fend for themselves- in other words, business as usual.

No one knows where Josh and Anna are- they were seen at the airport on Wednesday, but they could have gone to Arkansas or Florida.  I can't imagine the prodigal son would be very welcome at the TTH this weekend.  And I can't see Ben or Derick welcoming him with open arms either.

 

Does anyone know if the Duggars get residual money for reruns? If they do, that has to hurt.  And hitting Jim Bob in the wallet may be the unforgivable sin that Josh will not be forgiven for committing.

[Aw my lahgs]

Thank you for posting this. I have always been puzzled with the idea that the Duggars are not allowed to access media, television etc. However, most of them (especially Anna and Josh) have snazzy new phones, websites, etc. What is stopping them from being online 24/7 on their phones? I don't think they are as sheltered as their parents imply.

 

The thing is - they may have restrictions while under Gin bops roof - now that Josh is his own headship, it's pretty much unrestricted (so he can have unlimited pork on his phone). I'm convinced he reads about himself. Some of the older girls that have the password as well I'm also sure they do more than we are made to believe (social media, random browsing).

[bluebonnet]

 

No one knows where Josh and Anna are- they were seen at the airport on Wednesday, but they could have gone to Arkansas or Florida.  I can't imagine the prodigal son would be very welcome at the TTH this weekend.  And I can't see Ben or Derick welcoming him with open arms either.

 

I feel super gross and stalkery for even knowing the answer to this, but every news article I've read over the past few days mention that when Josh was last seen, he was arriving back in DC, so his last known whereabouts was DC.  I presumed he was at home and felt mildly surprised that we weren't seeing imagines of cameras camped outside his home.  

[Aw my lahgs]

I think Josh is probably going through hell and I take no joy in knowing that. I've felt that panic when a choice you made impacts your life so gravely and decidedly. Once again, I keep going back to his parents. What Josh did was unequivocally wrong and his victims were/are deserving of compassion, help, and justice. But, Josh was also deserving of real help and accountability. His parents made choices that took this from a devastating family issue to a public debate and shaming. They pushed their family into the spot light without considering the impact that fame would have if these things were revealed. They failed all of their children. Josh was a teenager - then he grew up and literally took a position on a high horse without considering how far he had to fall.

 

Real help may or may not have helped him (opinions in the professional world are mixed if teen molesters can be helped).

 

Instead, they blame it all on the girls and treat him as a victim and protect him as much as possible and don't hold him accountable whatsoever.

 

I'm sure Gin bop and MEchelle blame the girls.

[Chalby]

 All of the decent women I know -- regardless their religion or politics -- would help her financially in a heartbeat. 

I have this horrible fear that Anna has absolutely no access to monies her and Josh may have made during filming. In fact, I often feel as though all the girls are locked out of any financial accounts. Since their belief is that a girl is her father's  financial responsibility until a husband takes over, they may justify this exemption as 'providing for' their women. I just have a fear that the Duggar women (by birth or marriage) are kept in the dark, financially.

[Almost 3000]

I feel super gross and stalkery for even knowing the answer to this, but every news article I've read over the past few days mention that when Josh was last seen, he was arriving back in DC, so his last known whereabouts was DC.  I presumed he was at home and felt mildly surprised that we weren't seeing imagines of cameras camped outside his home.

It is interesting that the media isn't camped out but then my yahoo feed hasn't had the Duggars trending 100% of the time either like it did with Bruce Jenner.