S03.E03: The Dead and the Living

[ShellSeeker]

Quote

Barry and Molly employ every means available to prevent a personal tragedy. Fauzi and Daliyah become close through work, emboldening Fauzi to hope for a romantic future. Ahmed makes a dark discovery about Nusrat's past.

[cyberfruit]

It's take no prisoners this season. Just...wow.

Spoiler

Poor Emma. Her character didn't do much, but she didn't deserve that ending. 

And is Jamal *really* dead this time? 

[slothgirl]

Wow... people are just dropping like flies this season!

[Ferniesfreckles]

Well THAT happened!!

 

Did the professor not want to be kissed or did he not want it where they were at? Danger, and all that. 

I hope they unleash the monster-within, now.

It took long enough. 

 

Plus, is Jamal really dead now??

[TVForever]

Wow. This. Show.

I think Barry and Molly are gonna go apes**t crazy on this country now. The only question is, which of them will be the worst tyrant?

[sjohnson]

Good thing for the series Jamal is in a hospital with a medical team standing by for resuscitation. 

As for the kidney, two words: Familial match.

[LocimusPrime]

Good lord.  Berry should have requested US special ops to handle the situation. In fact, I would have brokered a deal to send in the US secretly and in a small capacity to help stabilize the country. 

[Artsda]

Well wow. Bodies dropping like crazy. 

Emma should have stayed in California. Coming back to play Princess was stupid. 

[catrox14]

Dafuq? I can't believe they killed Emma. That was a really bad choice. Barry and Molly are going to cut some bitches now.

Also, holy crap. They didn't really kill Jamal, too?? I mean no way.

Edited July 21, 2016 by catrox14

[Ariah]

At least we know why Emma was brought back to the narrative this season... That was brutal. 

- - -

I was hoping the transplant plot would mean digging deeper into Ahmed's parentage (I'm still weirdly hung up on him being Bassam's son and the reason Leila married Jamal in the first place). I hope Jamal's not dead-dead, only mostly dead... 

Barry's friend is making sweet eyes at Daliyah and I can't blame him, she's an effortless beauty.

[Constantinople]

Is this Tyrant or Game of Abbudin Thrones?

[FlowerofCarnage]

With Jamal out of the way and his daughter brutally murdered, Bassam is on the path to becoming the true tyrant of the show. I pedict either Molly dies or leaves Bassam as he becomes increasing tyrannical. I see him looking to Daliyah to help him  but even she will reject him and after that, he will fully become that person he never wanted to be.

[slothgirl]

As much as I love Jamal as a character, it will be stretching any bounds of medical probability if they revive him and he makes a recovery. The guy was barely alive on 1 kidney that was functioning at 5% capacity. It would shut down far faster than they can revive him and he'd be in full renal failure. And that's not even approaching the fact that although Hollywood loves resuscitation plotlines, IRL these miraculous recoveries are rare. There's a reason many medical professionals have DNRs. Even if the person is revived, they often live with substantial and permanent dysfunction afterwards.

They've saved Jamal from near certain death enough already. I'll miss him, but the only way he can really add to the plot would be if he returned to normal or near-normal functioning, and that's even more unrealistic than everything else on this show. As long as he's alive, we can't move on to the next Tyrant. His plotline is over. And judging from his scenes, I'm guessing they filmed them all in one go to minimize the actor's commitment.

[slothgirl]

On another note, does anyone remember how they were viewing the scene of the failed rescue? Was it satellite? Cause Ihab and Emmy sure knew exactly where to look.

I'm grateful with the way the show had Ihab kill, even though it seemed an unlikely choice for both the character and the caliphate culture . I was afraid he was going to slit her throat. Maybe they realized that would be just too "current events" for viewers sensibilities.

[NorthstarATL]

Emma had been MIA all last season, so I was immediately suspicious when she showed up this season and then conveniently was taken hostage instead of Molly, so I was less surprised than I should have been at her death. Hopefully her family will get some revenge.

[cyberfruit]

1 hour ago, FlowerofCarnage said:

With Jamal out of the way and his daughter brutally murdered, Bassam is on the path to becoming the true tyrant of the show. I pedict either Molly dies or leaves Bassam as he becomes increasing tyrannical. I see him looking to Daliyah to help him  but even she will reject him and after that, he will fully become that person he never wanted to be.

I think Sammy's going to get caught up in something just before that happens. I understand that love is a powerful thing, but lord does that boy keep looking for it in the worst possible places. 

Edited July 21, 2016 by cyberfruit

[sjohnson]

Amen to the implausibility of Jamal's survival in any tyrannically functional form. But I'm not betting on realism here. 

Speaking of Sammy, I wasn't sure but I thought his new man called him "Samir?" 

[paulvdb]

15 hours ago, slothgirl said:

On another note, does anyone remember how they were viewing the scene of the failed rescue? Was it satellite? Cause Ihab and Emmy sure knew exactly where to look.

They mentioned that they had a drone flying over the area.

[candall]

HELLO, I believe Jamal smothered his own father with a pillow, too!

And what he did to Nusrat was the act that brought him down??  All kinds of closure for The Jamal Story going on here.

*************

Oh yeah, there's about to be a new Tyrant in town now, boys. 

[ganesh]

On 7/20/2016 at 10:40 PM, sjohnson said:

Good thing for the series Jamal is in a hospital with a medical team standing by for resuscitation. 

That seemed rather easy and even too easy for tv. He was that weak to not fight off a pillow fight while he was fully conscious? I'm not buying it. Also because he's the main character.

1, is Emma really dead because she was 'tv stabbed', and 2, I'm just not invested in Molly. Not the actor; not her fault. All of a sudden Paul of Dune Barry is confined to the palace. ok. I don't see the advantage of killing off Emma because Barry can effectively lay waste to the country. 'You suffer because I did' is just stupid. You have the president on the phone telling you, "what do you need." "Make me the president." Ok, idiot Barry, say, 'ok, you can be the president.' Come on in. 

I mean seriously, your daughter has a gun to her head, and the guy says, 'make me the president'. Ok, I'll make you vp and resign in 2 minutes. Thanks. These people are dumb. 

[scrb]

So the people in the village spontaneously took down all those special forces soldiers?

Not just the ones clustered around Ihab's car but the snipers up in the buildings?

They might have been armed but they don't take down special forces guys so easily like within a minute or two.

 

As for Rashid, they've turned him into a cartoon monster, with the scars and the eye patch.  In the first season, he had some grievances and his family kept him from becoming radicalized.  Last season, he was discouraged and wanting to run away until the Kid Jihadi, his schoolmate from college, took him into the Caliphate.  He was reluctant to terrorize people in Abbudin but Samira egged him on to be brutal.  Then she's killed and now he's just a cartoon villain.

 

The one anvil they dropped is that Molly has some lesions on her brain MRI scan and she doesn't want to talk about it or tell Barry.  Maybe the show runners are trying to make Bassam crazy.  First Emma, then maybe Molly and then Sammy gets caught with a man.

On top of that Fauzi is moving in on Daliah!  Bassam is going to tear shit up!

Maybe Bassam and Leila are the only ones left standing at the end.

[sjohnson]

The politics of Tyrant I think will be hopelessly confused because they aren't going to show any left wing characters. The closest they're going to get to someone who is anti-imperialist is someone who mildly dislikes US troops in country. This is a soap about the temptations of power. The focus on Jamal's derangement by said temptations is blurred and it's not really been replaced. 

[thuganomics85]

As much as I love Ashraf Barhom, it would really be ridiculous if Jamal somehow survives again.  So, I'm actually kind of hoping this is truly the end for him.  It would be fitting that it would be at the hands of Ahmed, thanks to the words (and truth) from Nusrat.  Plus, I'm curious to see where this could take the Leila character, without having to deal with him and his ego.

So, in the least surprising news ever, Emma dies at the hands of Rashid, thanks to Barry and Molly trying to pull on over on him, but doing at it the worst way possible.  In a town full of Caliphate sympathizers?  Check.  The army apparently being too incompetent and unprepared to be prepared for a riot?  Check.  No kind of back-up plan in case things go south?  Check again!  Sorry, Emma.  It's not your fault your parents are that foolish.  Although, Barry easily wins in that department since he was the one that let Rashid go in the first place.  I get trying to move on and preach forgiveness, but you had to know Rashid would try something.  Now you are one child down, buddy.  I guess with Jamal gone, this truly is about him becoming the true Tyrant.  Maybe even ending with him becoming worst then Jamal and his father.

Fauzi and Daliyah are so making eyes with each other!

Still not quite sure what to make of Annet Mahendru's character.

[Rhetorica]

I just binge watched all three episodes. Not as bad as the red wedding but after seeing Emma's death and Barry's and Molly's reactions, I'd forgotten about Jamal's murder. The plot, indeed, thickens.

[Dowel Jones]

On 7/23/2016 at 10:59 PM, thuganomics85 said:

The army apparently being too incompetent and unprepared...

Not to mention wasting time trying to crowbar a door.  Break the window.  Jeez. 

Rashid must be a bit on the other side of the crazy door too, as he is evidently willing to sacrifice the entire town to prove a point.  Any tyrant would now react in such fashion; "I want every plane in the air, armed with napalm, bioweapons, whatever.  Lay waste to that town and everyone inside it".  I'm not advocating that position, but I think a tyrant certainly would follow that path. 

[Jade Foxx]

SHIT JUST GOT REAL.

And Molly, you started this cluster when you convinced Barry to go "home." Bitch....

Edited July 26, 2016 by Jade Foxx
Because Molly is the worst

[slothgirl]

On 7/23/2016 at 2:03 AM, scrb said:

As for Rashid, they've turned him into a cartoon monster, with the scars and the eye patch.  In the first season, he had some grievances and his family kept him from becoming radicalized.  Last season, he was discouraged and wanting to run away until the Kid Jihadi, his schoolmate from college, took him into the Caliphate.  He was reluctant to terrorize people in Abbudin but Samira egged him on to be brutal.  Then she's killed and now he's just a cartoon villain.

Maybe the show runners are trying to make Bassam crazy.  

The actor is doing his best, but yeah... they've gone over the top with Rashid. Poor guy has to try for a nuanced performance with only one eye showing and scar makeup all over his face that probably limits the movement of his skin. Maybe he should trade notes with Levar Burton.

If they decide to make Barry the Tyrant because his family gets killed or whatever, I'm going to be disappointed. I would prefer a scenario where he becomes the Tyrant because of the reality of the clashing of political and cultural extremes. With people trying to crush you at every turn, crushing them first becomes instinctual, and nothing else works. I imagine they want to portray Barry as a good man full of empathy and kindness, who gets driven to extremes by grief.

Unfortunately, I've never believed in that Barry as a character. The Barry that killed without hesitation when he was a child was an interesting nuanced character that the actor couldn't deliver. They've gone to such trouble to convince us that Barry DOESN'T have a cruel Tyrant just under the surface, that now they have to play the standard marital arts/action movie plot to get him there (they shot my partner, kidnapped my daughter, raped my wife or girlfriend, and then KILLED MY DOG! ... I must have revenge!)

I could even get behind a Barry that was naive and ends up as a puppet Tyrant propped up by the US. At this point though, my only hope is that Tyrant Barry gets overthrown quickly by Leila so that Ahmed becomes the Tyrant he is destined to be. His slow transformation from a young man to a hard and vengeful Tyrant has been believable so far.

As much as I love Jamal as a character because of his portrayal, I wonder how this transformation of Barry could have been if Barhom had played Barry.

Edited July 26, 2016 by slothgirl

[candall]

On ‎7‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 0:48 AM, ganesh said:

 You have the president on the phone telling you, "what do you need." "Make me the president." Ok, idiot Barry, say, 'ok, you can be the president.' Come on in. 

I mean seriously, your daughter has a gun to her head, and the guy says, 'make me the president'. Ok, I'll make you vp and resign in 2 minutes. Thanks. These people are dumb. 

So stupid, this.  I wanted to be a parent for exactly zero seconds in my lifetime and even **I** know any parent would respond to that situation with "WE WILL ABSOLUTELY MAKE THAT HAPPEN!"  Spaceship to Jupiter, abolish gravitational pull?  Done and done. 

Barry gritting out his dutiful integrity regrets turned all that tension into a howler, for me. 

[sjohnson]

The children of your standard dictators, strong men and common presidents are generally never in harm's way. But it doesn't work like that for the Communists. Josef Stalin's son was captured by the Nazis in WWII. No, Stalin did not make concessions for his release. He did die a prisoner of war. Mao's son was killed in the Korean War, so that never became an issue for him. 

[ganesh]

10 minutes ago, candall said:

So stupid, this.  I wanted to be a parent for exactly zero seconds in my lifetime and even **I** know any parent would respond to that situation with "WE WILL ABSOLUTELY MAKE THAT HAPPEN!"  Spaceship to Jupiter, abolish gravitational pull?  Done and done. 

I thought you were calling me stupid, but obviously no. To add:

3 minutes ago, sjohnson said:

But it doesn't work like that for the Communists.

I don't quite get the point. Barry is an American parent, so he doesn't have a communist dictator pov and has barely been president for 5 minutes. I don't think he's even near that point where he's accepted that given how he was about Sammy last season. Barry seemingly capitulating over the phone buys him some time to put together a plan and negotiate for further time for her to live. He doesn't want to be president anyway, if we take his statements at face value, so it's not like he has to act too much to convince Arab Pirate that he'll give up the presidency. 

I can suspend my disbelief enough that Barry would actually be president, but the whole strategy seemed more like plot device for Molly to flip out. It's kind of consistent for the show though, which plays fast and loose with logic. 

[slothgirl]

13 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Barry is an American parent, so he doesn't have a communist dictator pov and has barely been president for 5 minutes. I don't think he's even near that point where he's accepted that given how he was about Sammy last season. Barry seemingly capitulating over the phone buys him some time to put together a plan and negotiate for further time for her to live. He doesn't want to be president anyway, if we take his statements at face value, so it's not like he has to act too much to convince Arab Pirate that he'll give up the presidency. 

They were trying to pull an Air Force One plot out of their hat (president can't negotiate with terrorists, even for his own family) but it was lame.

Barry knows enough about how that part of the world works to have killed a prisoner in cold blood when he was a child. His naivete has been ludicrous from about Season 1 episode 3. The family's ignorance of that part of the world when they first arrived was just as stupid. Just an episode or so ago, Barry couldn't control the military long enough to keep his own sister-in-law and nephew out of jail. Now he's lost his other nephew/general. He had a failed coup attempt early on. Sending the First Lady and First Daughter into an area where resentments were high and allegiance was likely questionable was an unbelievable storyline unless some of his more knowledgable advisors are actually plotting against him and he himself has an IQ lower than Forest Gump

The extent to which he hasn't wised up on anything defies the most basic common sense. It's the biggest failure of the show. 

[sjohnson]

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

I don't quite get the point.

Just looking at real life examples of presidents whose children were in mortal jeopardy and how they responded. Couldn't recall any except Stalin who didn't give in either. The only point is that in the only real life counterpart to the situation, there was no deal.

[candall]

9 minutes ago, ganesh said:

I thought you were calling me stupid, but obviously no. To add:

I don't quite get the point. Barry is an American parent, so he doesn't have a communist dictator pov and has barely been president for 5 minutes. I don't think he's even near that point where he's accepted that given how he was about Sammy last season. Barry seemingly capitulating over the phone buys him some time to put together a plan and negotiate for further time for her to live. He doesn't want to be president anyway, if we take his statements at face value, so it's not like he has to act too much to convince Arab Pirate that he'll give up the presidency. 

I can suspend my disbelief enough that Barry would actually be president, but the whole strategy seemed more like plot device for Molly to flip out. It's kind of consistent for the show though, which plays fast and loose with logic. 

Never!  (I rely too much on your opinion over at Real Time to insult you.)

18 minutes ago, sjohnson said:

The children of your standard dictators, strong men and common presidents are generally never in harm's way. But it doesn't work like that for the Communists. Josef Stalin's son was captured by the Nazis in WWII. No, Stalin did not make concessions for his release. He did die a prisoner of war. Mao's son was killed in the Korean War, so that never became an issue for him. 

This is so interesting, (and reminds me of how disappointed Prince Harry was when he was pulled from field service after he was identified.)  Did the Nazis offer to negotiate, thinking that Stalin might make concessions on behalf of his child?  Because it seems to me you wouldn't ever reach the position of "a" Stalin if you couldn't withstand a manipulative attack of a personal nature.  That kind of emotional vulnerability would be a glaring deficit in a world-class dictator.

I was only saying that a parent would promise anything, including the moon, in the moment Bassam faced, regardless of genuine commitment.  "Still alive" will always be the choice that informs the negotiation.  And as ganesh points out, Bassam handing Ihab the presidency is not such an impossible stretch that any fool would immediately peg as a desperate lie.  Ihab probably would not have believed a promise to, say, deliver armed nuclear weapons, but the possibility that Bassam might be willing to help install Ihab into a position he (Bassam) had already abdicated, gather his intact family and slink back to America?  Better odds.

[ganesh]

I'm beginning to wonder if TPTBs know who the actual Tyrant is either. 

[Valmarmar]

Finnegan nailed Molly's reaction. Good job.

[Valmarmar]

On 7/26/2016 at 8:55 AM, slothgirl said:

The actor is doing his best, but yeah... they've gone over the top with Rashid. Poor guy has to try for a nuanced performance with only one eye showing and scar makeup all over his face that probably limits the movement of his skin. Maybe he should trade notes with Levar Burton.

If they decide to make Barry the Tyrant because his family gets killed or whatever, I'm going to be disappointed. I would prefer a scenario where he becomes the Tyrant because of the reality of the clashing of political and cultural extremes. With people trying to crush you at every turn, crushing them first becomes instinctual, and nothing else works. I imagine they want to portray Barry as a good man full of empathy and kindness, who gets driven to extremes by grief.

Unfortunately, I've never believed in that Barry as a character. The Barry that killed without hesitation when he was a child was an interesting nuanced character that the actor couldn't deliver. They've gone to such trouble to convince us that Barry DOESN'T have a cruel Tyrant just under the surface, that now they have to play the standard marital arts/action movie plot to get him there (they shot my partner, kidnapped my daughter, raped my wife or girlfriend, and then KILLED MY DOG! ... I must have revenge!)

I could even get behind a Barry that was naive and ends up as a puppet Tyrant propped up by the US. At this point though, my only hope is that Tyrant Barry gets overthrown quickly by Leila so that Ahmed becomes the Tyrant he is destined to be. His slow transformation from a young man to a hard and vengeful Tyrant has been believable so far.

As much as I love Jamal as a character because of his portrayal, I wonder how this transformation of Barry could have been if Barhom had played Barry.

Agree, SLOTHGIRL !!!  Great observation !!  I also believed Jamal to be the most interesting, watchable character.  Barhom played all his "onion layers" so convincingly, I couldn't predict his actions or emotions.  Your suggestion makes so much sense:  "...if Barhom had played Barry."  

[TheRabbi]

I decided to record the whole season before starting it so I could binge it. Just watched this episode...wow! My memory is a bit foggy on what exactly Emma's path had been the first 2 seasons (ditto for the one eyed guy that killed her), but damn that was a powerful scene. We're so conditioned watching these types of shows that the damsel in distress will always get rescued or there will be some other eleventh hour development. Kudos to the show for not pulling punches.

Sad that Jamal bit the dust, he was easily the best character. Hopefully the show remains compelling without all these folks they're killing off

[candall]

13 minutes ago, TheRabbi said:

I decided to record the whole season before starting it so I could binge it. Just watched this episode...wow! My memory is a bit foggy on what exactly Emma's path had been the first 2 seasons (ditto for the one eyed guy that killed her), but damn that was a powerful scene. We're so conditioned watching these types of shows that the damsel in distress will always get rescued or there will be some other eleventh hour development. Kudos to the show for not pulling punches.

Sad that Jamal bit the dust, he was easily the best character. Hopefully the show remains compelling without all these folks they're killing off

Ooh, I'm envious you have the whole season to binge.  I'd collect two episodes in a row sometimes, for a two-hour treat, but that was the extent of my willpower.

My main impression of Emma in Season One was that she drove me crazy running around in public in shorts and sleeveless shirts.  Offensive attire in any Muslim country, but really way too "clueless American tourist" for an Al-Fayeed family member in Abuddin.  Other than that, she was okay; Sammy was featured more and was much more annoying.

In Season Two, Emma got a gig on another show and disappeared "back to Pasadena."

[TheRabbi]

How about her killer? My memory on those events last season is so sketchy. Jamal is really the only character that stood out for me so some of the other stuff was really blending together

[candall]

Ihab?  He's the son of Sheik Rashid, the leader of the opposition to Jamal.  Ihab and his love interest, Samira (daughter of Barry's oldest friend, the journalist) had to flee Abuddin when Jamal went all nutso about Barry's plan to broker peace with the Sheik. 

While Jamal was dropping Barry off in the desert to die, Ihab hooked up with his old pal, who was forming the Caliphate. 

So Barry and Ihab were positioned as primary opponents for that Season Two Caliphate battle in the desert.  Barry was captured and wound up having to kill Samira to stop her from killing _________ Daliyah, I think.

Ihab carries a big grudge against the Al-Fayeeds in general and Barry in particular for any number of injuries--his father, Samira, the lost battle, his eye and quite a bit of that attractive scarring. 

Ihab and Barry-Bassam are now both deranged from loss (and getting their personal antipathy toward each other all tangled up in the larger Abuddin vs. Caliphate situation.)

Oh, right, there was also a little implausible twist, post-battle, when Barry went soft, helped Ihab with his wounds and, I think, even gave the order to let him go.

 

[@TheRabbi]

[TheRabbi]

Ah that is a big help! I do remember most of these events, but its been so long and some characters kind of bleed together for me. Thanks!