S02.E03: Shaft

[The Crazed Spruce]

A rescue mission goes sideways when the team encounters an unexpected enemy in an abandoned mine.

[johntfs]

Angry vagina is an awesome creature description.  Or band name.

[Terrafamilia]

I must say, if a show's level of seriousness and maturity is measured by how many "shit"s pepper everyone's speech, then Killjoys is hella mature.
 :-)

[ottoDbusdriver]

That was good -- it was creepy, more intrigue about what was really going in Red 17, Johnny gets a new pet, Pawter finally escapes from Jelco, lots of Alvis and we find out more about the Scarbacks backstory, and Dutch puts her foot down on Turin and starts calling the shots.

I wonder if the mossipede was avoiding D'avin because he might be partially infected with the Level 6 goo.

[Snarkette]

Rule out the nanites because the mossipeds lurved Dutch. Which leaves "secret military anti-RAC program soldier" but doesn't explain the standing kill order from Ep 1

[Advance35]

Really liking this season.   Alvis has been a welcome presence over the last two episodes and though I know he's got some extreme outlooks, can I just say, he has awesome chemistry with Dutch.  We don't have enough insight on their past as of yet but whatever it was, it must have had a profound effect on Dutch because she is softer with him then with anyone else.

Always love Johnny, though I'm not feeling this whole Pawter thing.

D'Avin was good too.

[wanderingstar]

This ep was a feast of one-liners ("And here I thought it was bring a monk to work day." "Oh, house arrest comes with a meal plan?")

Loved Pawter's plan to break out of Spring Hill, though I know that's not the last we'll see of Jelco.

I could have done without the creepy-crawlies, though D'Avin as mossi-pede whisperer/herder was kind of fun.

I like seeing more of Alvis this season. I like his bond with Dutch, and I admit that I'm intrigued by the Scarback mythology.

Solid episode.

[thuganomics85]

I thought it started out kind of slow at first, but it picked up one the "angry vagina" mossipedes (never change, John) came into play.  It did predict hallucinations early on, because I've seen several sci-fi shows do this kind of episode.  I did like seeing Hallucination Khylen and the over version of Dutch.  I guess she's suppose to be the Dutch that the real Dutch fears that she truly is. 

Definitely has to be a reason why they kept showing the mossipedes act the way they did around D'Avin.  Clearly he's change somehow, even if he didn't become Level 6.

Loved how Pawter got herself out of the base... only to get captured again.  I wonder whose got her, now?  For some reason, I suspect Fancy.  But maybe it will end up being an entirely new player.  Oh, and I love that Pawter's dad is Andrew Gillies a.k.a. Dr. Alder from 12 Monkeys.  Or Ethan Duncan from Orphan Black.  He certainly fits the role.  But I really can't wait to meet her mother.

Is it might imagination or is Lucy sounded just slightly jealous of John's concern for Pawter?

My favorite line/moment was the whole bit where Dutch asks John to analysis the mossipedes, John's like "What exactly am I suppose to analysis?" about it, and she's just like "I don't know, but that's how it goes!  You analysis things and it gets better!"  Definitely reminds me of the typical sci-fi stuff, where the day is saved by some kind of last minute scientific excuse, that's usually just a whole bunch of technobabble and wonky science bullshit.  I say this with affection, I swear!

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

59 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Is it might imagination or is Lucy sounded just slightly jealous of John's concern for Pawter?

I think Lucy really was giving Pawter the bizness - subtly - when she said something about Pawter having a "pyschological need" when she asked Lucy if Johnny really said that (about coming to get her). 

 

I'm sure they will come up with an explanation - a good one, please! - as to why its happening, but for right now they are making D'avin out to be a little too much like a 'special snowflake', what with the rejection of the "green space goo" that makes Level 6s and then being a natural repellent of the mossipedes.

So, are they going to 'go there' with Dutch & Alvis?  I'm guessing that interrupted initiation of a kiss was intended to be more than just a "friendly banter" version of spit-swapping.  And I wonder if Lucy breaking it up then was because it was emergency-level immediate news, or was Lucy 'cock-blocking' that moment for Johnny's sake?  Or is that latter interpretation because of my Dutch/Johnny bias??  Who knows, maybe Lucy ships Dutch/D'avin and acted because of it???

[wanderingstar]

Quote

Oh, and I love that Pawter's dad is Andrew Gillies a.k.a. Dr. Alder from 12 Monkeys.

That made me happy. Dr. Adler is one of my favorite parts of 12 Monkeys, so I loved seeing Andrew Gillies pop up here. Hope it's for a recurring role.

[Kuther2000]

I think it is funny and interesting. When Dutch made reference to inbred Qreshis in season one "Vessel", I thought she was being snide. I thought yeah they probably did it a long time ago but now they probably wouldn't do it so much or they have enough technology for it not to negatively affect them. Boy, was I wrong with what Jelco said. This also brings up another question. If they still practice it, how did the family killing device get around the inbreeding. 

Jelco was such as creeper. He was the guy who wasn't popular or in the IN crowd. Now that he has a little power. He is trying to rule it over Pawter, who probably didn't even know who he was until now.

[MissLucas]

That was excellent - I always like it when a show proves my spit-balling from the previous week right (I'm only human after all).

Our intrepid heroes were a bit slow on the uptake though. The moment I saw the moss I was mumbling to the screen 'geez, folks that's where the creepy green goo you've all been wondering about is coming from!' Granted in-show it wasn't such a foregone conclusion than from my comfy armchair.

I liked it that D'Avin made the connection since he had the most green goo exposure of them all. Too bad it took him ages and then even longer to remember that he's not susceptible to the stuff. John not being interested in Lucy's results of the soil analysis was OOC and I was also not a fan of D'Avin not pushing harder for Alvis to spill the beans on the Twelve monks that went away. I hate it when characters start to deliver what is obviously important info then break off and nobody calls them out on their bs. Clearly the writers wanted to reserve that info for Alvis' talk with Dutch but it felt contrived.

Glad Alvis kept his vows - thanks to Lucy ;) I wonder if that was all and he'll return to his calling now. They do have amazing chemistry though. I really liked how they handled the not-love triangle. D'Avin's annoyance slowly giving way to acceptance of the intimacy between Dutch and Alvis by the end of the episode when he cleared the path to Dutch's room for Alvis in more than one sense. Obviously coming up with various nick-names for Alvis throughout the episode was his coping mechanism.

Quote

When we were under Spring Hill, I never did thank you for killing me.
I needed that.
Yeah.
You did.

He! I love how Luke McFarlane plays D'Avin - not quite as dumb as people might think beneath all the bravado.

Pawter managing her own rescue was great even if she immediately got into trouble again, sigh. Not sure what to think of Lucy's 'psychological fixation' - maybe she's jealous or maybe she thinks Pawter needed the additional info to finally get it because she approves of her. After all Pawter was the person who responded to Lucy's call for help last season and saved John.

Quote

This also brings up another question. If they still practice it, how did the family killing device get around the inbreeding. 

Yeah, I kept wondering about that too at the end of last season. Maybe that's one of the reasons the Nine use vessels (and all the talk about avoiding unnecessary risks is just a smoke-screen). Though I have no idea how using a surrogate could eliminate the effects of prolonged inbreeding or protect you from a DNA-based bomb. Some interesting stuff in Jelco's interactions with Pawter though. Resentment against the Nine is festering on Qresh as well.

Edited July 16, 2016 by MissLucas

[sjohnson]

Jelco is to my eye a copy of Potter from a season of Defiance. Defiance apparently dropped the character because of budget or desire for sexy leads (either is always a bad sign for show quality.) Since Killjoys seems to really just be The Loves of Dutch, though, I doubt they'll be willing to invest the money in paying the actor for enough time to develop him as a villain. The dude sounds even gayer than Pree, but in a Sidney Sawyer kind of way. Hope there'll be more to mark his villainy than that and mustache twirling. He tells Pawter he wants to use her weaknesses against her? That was a real Snidely Whiplash moment!

Speaking of love, Alvis' as spurned lover is pretty dull to me. Priest sacrificing his vows to the sexy heroine seems kind of old, no matter how strongly it advertises her desirability. He was interesting as a priest, but that's nearly gone now.

Lucy's diagnosis of "fixation" seems to me to be too accurate to be computer bitchery. Pawter doesn't seem stupid to me, she must know Johnny is in love with Dutch and therefore a bad choice. Pawter/D'Avin works though, in my opinion. Of course D'Avin love Dutch too but he's not so far gone as Johnny. And as second in seniority he's a better bet to settle for second choice (Pawter.) Watching Pawter chase the wrong man seems kind of demeaning to the character in my eyes. Worse, she's more interesting as a independent perspective on the political system. 

It's kind of amusing how they're working in clearing warrants, even if by accident, as in clearing the salvage warrant. If you've gone ahead and called your series "Killjoys" for bounty hunters, I guess it's more fun to pretend that's what they're doing. Personally I think the whole bad ass bounty hunter thing is kind of lame, so more power to them.

The notion that dream sequences/hallucinations/visions actually provide valid insights and knowledge has always struck me as kind of stupid. Not to keen on the continuing story line element this episode.

[FurryFury]

Yawn. I'm thinking about dropping the show. It just doesn't hold my attention anymore. I don't care about stupid romance (any pairings), and it's given way too much time, Pawter's actress still annoys me for some reason. The Khlyen/green goo/Level 6/Arkin stuff is kinda interesting and probably the only reason to watch.

[Terrafamilia]

I spent way too much time thinking about the ecology of subterranean mossipedes. Usually, critters camouflage themselves as something in their natural environment. Mosses generally like it damp and shady. The mines didn't look damp and even though the place was riddled with those glowing magic scifi crystals (Crystals!) it still seemed pretty dim for much photosynthesis. Also, the barren badlands seem to be pretty scarce of foodstuffs other than the occasional miner or reclamation agent. Soooo, were the mossipedes transplanted from elsewhere (someplace with plenty of moss) and spend most of their time in self-imposed stasis/hibernation/estivation until a clueless passerby stumbles upon them?

If you have a chronic pericardial effusion, shouldn't you be able to get a decent pericardial window with advanced, future, space medicine instead of risk frequent aspirations from doctors who'd just as soon see you dead?

[sjohnson]

^^Very funny about the space medicine. OF course you're right, technically. The thing is, this show is all about the villains stopping to listen to the good guys snark witty at them. And if they have to do stupid stuff in order for that to happen, so be it. 

[Garnett7]

Quote

Is it might imagination or is Lucy sounded just slightly jealous of John's concern for Pawter?

I thought it was established in season 1 that Lucy is completely in love with Johnny and favors him over the others? ;-)

"Angry vagina". Never change, Johnny, never change. I just adore him.

Dutch/Alvis -- meh, I'd rather have D'Avin/Alvis.

[CletusMusashi]

I like that Pawter got out on her own, but... holy crap did Jelco have to be stupid in order for that to work! He just trusts her to give him whatever meds she feels like? I figured she was going to dose him with Jakk and they'd have to go on a zany roadtrip to get more once his withdrawal kicked in. But, really... couldn't she just kill him, use the blood DNA to escape, and not really be in much more trouble than she is anyway for illegally implanting a bomb into his heart? Just seems like it would have been easier, although perhaps not as funny.

[AlliMo]

I think the show has pretty firmly established that Johnny isn't in love with Dutch and has no romantic interest in her, but that he does love her. She's his family, in some ways more so than D'Avin.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

16 minutes ago, AlliMo said:

I think the show has pretty firmly established that Johnny isn't in love with Dutch and has no romantic interest in her, but that he does love her. She's his family, in some ways more so than D'Avin.

I believe its set up so that a person can see and interpret it as they want.  The show's creator left herself an avenue for it to go either way, IMO.

Where you see it as "pretty firmly established" that Johnny isn't in love with Dutch, I see it as I could believe it if the storyline went in a D/J direction. 

Yeah, it would be weird if someone he sees as a sister and his blood-related brother hooked up, but not to the "don't even think about touching her (in that way) / you did the one thing I pleaded with you not to do" levels of reaction that he had with D'avin before/during/after it happened.  I don't buy the counterpoint of Johnny knowing both of them and it would be the wrong thing to do if they 'did the deed', because D&D are both mature enough to make their own mistakes and move on from them, if what happened was really a mistake.  And also, I also don't think those times that Pree [in S1] made the D/J 'shipper' comments to both of them was just because he was bored or trying to work the needle under the skin.  I'm of the impression that Pree is both smart & mature enough to not make ridiculous insinuations that hold absolutely no truth, at least with people he knows and cares about.

But that's just my take, and again, (the possibility of) D/J being to be or not to be is all in the eye of the beholder.

[FurryFury]

I have the same problem with Dutch/Johnny that I have with any "long time friends suddenly having feeling for each other" thing. It just doesn't make sense for romantic feelings to appear when there were none for many years. I guess it could happen if something REALLY drastic happened, something that impacted both characters in a major way... But I doubt anything like that would happen.

[sjohnson]

The thing about Dutch/Johnny is that it is unrequited on Dutch's part, for several reasons, I think. One is  pretty explicit: Dutch feels she is damaged goods, with a sinister past and ominous future. And it's true that childhood murderer cooties are really creepy and likely to cause self esteem issues. Another is that Johnny for Dutch is sort of like those artificial babies in parenting class: She carries him around and as long as she's keeping him safe, she's got proof she's doing a good job. Not explicit in the show as a character trait, but equally important I think is that Dutch is the heroine, whom everyone loves, obsesses, admires and wants to possess or at least acknowledges that she is the key to the future of the world. Dutch/Johnny is inevitable because if everyone loves Dutch, then Johnny has to love Dutch, so much so that he doesn't really have enough love left over for other women. And lastly I think there is the careful adherence to vague notions about the value of women. They are rated by the status of their partners, and they are pretty exclusive. In dramatic terms, Johnny is the IT guy, the technobabbler. These creatures are very useful but like real life geeks and wonks, successful women don't sleep with them.

[tennisgurl]

I really do not want Johnny and Dutch to become a romantic thing. It could easily turn into a weird love triangle thing, and I have seen too many shows fall apart due to boring love triangles. Honestly, if Dutch needs a love interest, I would go for her and Alvis, and have Dutch/Johnny/D'Avin as close friends and partners. 

Not as good as the first episode of the season, but a step up from last week. I enjoyed the creepy crawlies and Johnny's interest in them, and learning more about the religious background and mythology of the shows universe ( one of the great strengths of last season was the interesting world building), and thought the pacing and quips were all well and good. I just hope we can get to more action! And, I know that Dutch is our Hero and we should spend time with her and build her conflicts, but I hope we get a Johnny centric episode soon.

[tessaray]

13 hours ago, AlliMo said:

I think the show has pretty firmly established that Johnny isn't in love with Dutch and has no romantic interest in her, but that he does love her. She's his family, in some ways more so than D'Avin.

I recently watched the first season and think from the actor's (very) subtle portrayal in the first episodes that Johnny was in love with Dutch but had mostly adjusted to their friends/sibling status.  I say "mostly" because of the brief look of pain mixed in with the annoyance when he realized that his brother had gone there after being warned off.  After Dutch/Davin hooked up, it seemed like that permanently squashed any lingering feelings that Johnny seemed to have for her.  

Or I may have imagined that.  :-)      

[Black Knight]

Lucy really liked the heavily modded woman (who Johnny also liked) from earlier in the season, wanting to keep her, so I thought the shade she was throwing at Pawter was about that in some way. I don't think Lucy is against any and all women for Johnny per se; she's just picky.

I'm getting tired of the green goo thing. I remember last season when "I'm Level VI" sent this delicious chill down my back...and then it turned out that all Level VI means is that the person got shot up with green goo. Since the other levels are about actual ability, I found that highly disappointing. It's completely artificial. Sure, the green goo makes the person unkillable, but that is being conferred on the person rather than coming from the person. Plus it seems like you could shoot up anyone (except D'avin, apparently) with green goo and make them Level VI. I'm just disappointed. The green goo has made the idea of Level VI so much less interesting to me.

[call me ishmael]

One thing i was surprised about was that they didn't blow up the mine.  If you had just discovered that the green goo creating millipedes that were crucial to Khylen's plans were located in that mine wouldn't you destroy it and them?

I also am curious about the hallucinations.  Clearly the previous RAC team suffered from hallucinations but so did D'avin (even though then they were supposed to be memories).  I wonder if his were some sort of hive memory of the millipedes and if his ability to resist being consumed by them was tied to their fear of him.

[FurryFury]

10 hours ago, Black Knight said:

Lucy really liked the heavily modded woman (who Johnny also liked) from earlier in the season, wanting to keep her, so I thought the shade she was throwing at Pawter was about that in some way. I don't think Lucy is against any and all women for Johnny per se; she's just picky.

I'm getting tired of the green goo thing. I remember last season when "I'm Level VI" sent this delicious chill down my back...and then it turned out that all Level VI means is that the person got shot up with green goo. Since the other levels are about actual ability, I found that highly disappointing. It's completely artificial. Sure, the green goo makes the person unkillable, but that is being conferred on the person rather than coming from the person. Plus it seems like you could shoot up anyone (except D'avin, apparently) with green goo and make them Level VI. I'm just disappointed. The green goo has made the idea of Level VI so much less interesting to me.

It's possible you need to be already "special" in some sort to survive being turned into a Level VI. And, well, to be picked to become one, too.

[Teitr Styrr]

I loved how the ship asked Johnny if he wanted to hear her fascinating briefing on the um, dirt or something on the planet, and Johnny said something like "No...I think I'll save that for bedtime. Can you do this for me instead?"  And she was all like, "Fine, blah blah blah." The way she said fine, was hilariously like a girlfriend would if she was mad at her boyfriend.

[gaby4ever25]

Quote

It's possible you need to be already "special" in some sort to survive being turned into a Level VI. And, well, to be picked to become one, too.

I think Khylen alluded to this in this season's first episode. He remarked that he thought D'avin would be strong enough for the procedure and attempted to shoot him before the doctors informed him that not only was D'avin not damaged but that he had resisted the level 6 conversion, which had never been done before. It was apparent by Khylen's actions that only the strong survive the process and resisting it is unheard off. You either change or become extremely damaged. 

I'm excited to see how D'avin's story evolves. I've always been curious to know why they cast AA and LM as brothers when Alvis looks more like Johnny's brother than D'avin. Was it intentional?  I'm looking forward to the brothers backstory. 

Edited July 19, 2016 by gaby4ever25

[Impish Dragon]

Is it just me, or has there been a serious lack of Dutch/Johnny scenes this season? I know we are only three eps in, but *shurgs*  I don't know, it just feels like D/J has been missing. 

[jtb34]

On 7/16/2016 at 1:12 AM, thuganomics85 said:

My favorite line/moment was the whole bit where Dutch asks John to analysis the mossipedes, John's like "What exactly am I suppose to analysis?" about it, and she's just like "I don't know, but that's how it goes!  You analysis things and it gets better!"  Definitely reminds me of the typical sci-fi stuff, where the day is saved by some kind of last minute scientific excuse, that's usually just a whole bunch of technobabble and wonky science bullshit.  I say this with affection, I swear!

That made me laugh!

[Snarkette]

Off topic but Limitless was absolutely brilliant about this gag -- and rather than spew pseudoscience, they'd show viral youtube videos. I appreciated it in this ep as well. "You're the science trope. Science this, damn it!"

[miracole]

Interesting episode.  I don't mind Dutch and Alvis flirting, in fact I love how much it annoys D'avin, but that's as far as it should go. That almost kiss was unnecessary.  I like how Dutch always depends on Johnny to make things better. I still think D'avin is the weak link no matter how "special" they try to make him.

Quote

 "Fine, blah blah blah." The way she said fine, was hilariously like a girlfriend would if she was mad at her boyfriend.

Lucy was very sassy this episode.

[Wynterwolf]

Literally LOL'd at Johnny going nearly orgasmic over that wall and more Mysteries of the Green Goo.  The rest was enjoyable, the stuff in the mine was a little disjointed, but I suspect it could be more interesting once we get a few more pieces to the Level 6/Scarback puzzle and we understand what the tree means.  And I am fascinated by Alvis, so that fact that he seems to be deeply involved (whether he realizes it or not) intrigues me greatly.  They definitely implied a physical relationship between Alvis and Dutch last season, but I have zero interest in 'lurve' triangles, so whatever.  And I love Johnny and Pawter's friendship, but mainly because of her drug problem and the fact that Johnny has already had to deal with the trauma of loving an addict with his mother, that isn't a romantic pairing I want to see either.  Basically I don't think I ship anyone on this show at this point (though I could be persuaded to embrace D/J if they took it that direction), so I'm all for sexy hookups between randomly rotating partners, or hells... a three-some might be fun too, though I think Lucy might be making them all take cold showers here pretty soon.    

Quote

It just doesn't make sense for romantic feelings to appear when there were none for many years.

I've seen close friends turning romantic happen for a lot of people in real life, leading to very successful long term relationships, so the potential for that makes perfect sense to me, and it's also one of my favorite fictional romance tropes.  

The showrunner also made a tweet earlier saying that most Scarbacks "take vows of polyamory".  So basically the opposite of celibacy... just another reason the Scarbacks are awesome.  

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

On 7/17/2016 at 3:40 PM, tessaray said:

I recently watched the first season and think from the actor's (very) subtle portrayal in the first episodes that Johnny was in love with Dutch but had mostly adjusted to their friends/sibling status.  I say "mostly" because of the brief look of pain mixed in with the annoyance when he realized that his brother had gone there after being warned off.  After Dutch/Davin hooked up, it seemed like that permanently squashed any lingering feelings that Johnny seemed to have for her.  

Or I may have imagined that.  :-)      

I was just pondering this exact scenario, and I think Johnny intentionally 'friend-zoned' himself with regards to Dutch very early on IRT their first introductions, and then it just became habit.  When they first met, its been indicated that she was in a pretty bad/dark place.  So with that I'm thinking, that along with the initial start of their partnership and then spending some time with her, he made the decision that it was both not the right time to make romantic overtures and later, since things were going so well, why mess with what's working?  And to make sure he kept to that mantra, he went full-on "she's like a sister to me".

I choose to believe that really deep down Johnny is in love with Dutch, but due to circumstances and things said or implied by Dutch - "don't have feelings for the people you sleep with" - it's just (so far) never been the right time or 'atmosphere' to approach her about it. 

But considering very current events in the show's timeline, it seems tides are changing... at least on Dutch's side of things.

Edited August 3, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[sjohnson]

It seems to me that friend-zoning is about as common in real life as meeting cute, and even scarcer than instant hostility disguising instant grand passion. But that said, Dutch is always in charge. Any fictional friend-zoning was done by her, I think.