Why Isn't This an Event at the Games?

[madhacker]

this is for discussion about why certain sports aren't events at the Olympic Games, even though they really should be.......

[madhacker]

And since I started it....why the hell isn't skateboarding an Event? Snowboarding has been an event for at least the last four winter games, skateboarding is way overdue in my opinion.

Also since the Games are in Rio, why isn't surfing an event? or cliff diving?

[Rick Kitchen]

Roller skating!  Both track, and figures.  It's been an event in the Pan Am Games for years, and draws competitors from all over the hemisphere.

 

And even roller hockey.

2 minutes ago, madhacker said:

And since I started it....why the hell isn't skateboarding an Event? Snowboarding has been an event for at least the last four winter games, skateboarding is way overdue in my opinion.

Also since the Games are in Rio, why isn't surfing an event? or cliff diving?

 

I don't know, I'm asking, but are there cliffs near Rio?

Edited July 12, 2016 by Rick Kitchen

[madhacker]

I'm not really sure if there's cliffs but it still should be an event if it's possible.

What kills me if skateboarding was an event everybody would watch it!! NBC could hire Shaun White and Tony Hawk to cover it.....

Edited July 12, 2016 by madhacker

[Mittengirl]

From what I recall reading some where on the Internet, so you know it must be true, a sport must have national governing bodies in a certain number of countries and have national and international championships in order to be considered.  There are, I am sure, other qualifications as well.  I think now there also must be participation by both men and women.

Edited July 13, 2016 by Mittengirl

[selkie]

You don't need a cliff for cliff diving- just an area where you can get appropriate safe water depth. FINA in an attempt to broaden and modernize their disciplines, added it as a championship event at the 2013 World Aquatics Championships and there are a couple of different world tours for it including a FINA-branded World Cup series.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_diving_at_the_2013_World_Aquatics_Championships

The arguments against it right now are increased venue cost and finding a wat to get a proper allocationof athletes for it. I think it would have had a better shot at an Olympic status if synchronized diving hadn't gotten there first.

(On a shallow note, the first official men's world champion, Orlando Duque, is a very attractive sort)

You also need to have a standardized format for the event/discipline for a while. The delay in the arrival of the women's steeplechase at the Olympic level came because, as the event was becoming established at the national level in different places, different barrier heights and race distances were used and the IAAF had to come up with a global rule on those things for the race to be held in international competition.

[legaleagle53]

And let's not forget the quadrennial omission that I think should have been remedied at least 20 years ago:  DanceSport.  Given the worldwide popularity of Strictly Come Dancing and its progeny over the past 10 years or so, I am still astounded that ballroom dancing hasn't become to the Summer Games what ice dancing is to the Winter Games.  I would like to see it come in borrowing the competition format that was once used for ice dancing:  a round of school figures, followed by a compulsory dance, and then a free dance.  I can even predict who I think the top countries would be, in no particular order:  the US, the UK, Russia, the Netherlands, and Japan, with possibly Canada and Australia as medal contenders as well.

Edited July 13, 2016 by legaleagle53

[Just Here]

Skateboarding is actually very close to becoming an included sport in the 2020 Olympics, along with karate, surfing, and climbing. Also, baseball/softball could be back in as well.  All these sports need is the approval of the full IOC Session, which takes place right before the Olympics. (IOC news article from June)

[Mittengirl]

Hasn't the IOC repeatedly stated that they do not want the Olympics to get bigger, numbers-wise?  How are they going to add all of these new sports but keep the number of athletes the same?

 

OK, so according to the above link, the would only be in the Tokyo Olympics, not necessarily in any other Games.

Edited July 13, 2016 by Mittengirl

[SnideAsides]

They changed the rules in 2007 so now every sport gets reviewed after every Olympics. I imagine the major, major sports (plus modern pentathlon, which was created for the Olympics) are safe by default, and then everything else is a big question mark. (And yes: You apparently need established male players in 75 countries on four continents, and established female players in 40 countries on three continents.)

I would imagine the reason skateboarding, surfing, cliff diving et al aren't in the Olympics yet is because the summer games take themselves hyper-seriously, while the winter games seem to realise there's a voyeuristic aspect in watching people throw themselves down mountains at high speed seventy different ways, so the extreme sports fit better there. I don't think the Norwegian Curling Team's Pants would have happened if you replaced ice hockey and speed skating with field hockey and track cycling, you know?

They have a summer version of figure skating though. It's called gymnastics. It's quite popular.

[greendog78]

If they ever get rid of the equestrian events, that would free up a bit of athlete count and budget!  Wonder if they'll ever include things like men's rhythmic gymnastics and synchronized or women's canoeing. They wouldn't have to build anything extra to include them. 

[MyAimIsTrue]

On ‎7‎/‎13‎/‎2016 at 2:14 AM, Just Here said:

Also, baseball/softball could be back in as well.

I'm a baseball fanatic and played softball pretty much my entire life until it was finally time to hang up my cleats a couple of years ago but I don't think there's enough world-wide competition in either sport to bring them back to the Olympics.  To me it's not fun watching the same two or three countries battle it out for gold every quadrennium.

[selkie]

Baseball's fatal flaw as an Olympic sport is that you can't get the North American pros for 2.5 weeks because MLB doesn't want to reduce the number of games once every four years, and the added round of playoffs already makes the weather problematic for the start and end of the season for northern tier teams so you can't just shut everything down and let the MLB guys play like the NHL does for ice hockey players.

And since the IOC, save for men's soccer, wants to get best quality players and baseball's Olympic best tended to be the Cubans who hadn't gotten around to defecting yet, it's easy to understand why it got the axe.

[MyAimIsTrue]

1 hour ago, selkie said:

Baseball's fatal flaw as an Olympic sport is that you can't get the North American pros for 2.5 weeks because MLB doesn't want to reduce the number of games once every four years

I'm actually fine with that.  Watching pros during the season is what I want but I'd rather see the college kids/amateurs during the Olympics. 

[Mittengirl]

If they want to add summer sports but not add too many more athletes, they should just move some indoor sports to the Winter Games.  I know that right now all winter sports are contended on snow or ice, but the IOC doesn't seem as hung up on tradition as it used to be.  Any of the "combat" sports (boxing, judo, etc.) could easily be moved, I would think.  Is there such a thing as a boxing/judo/karate season?  Maybe badminton and table tennis as well.  None of those sports require a special facility, unlike swimming or biking, so I would think any city thinking of hosting a Winter Olympics would have an existing building capable of holding one of these sports.  (Badminton isn't played outdoors, is it?)

[ketchuplover]

I demand Ice Sculpting and Snowman Building be added to the Winter Games!

[xaxat]

I've always suspected that baseball/softball got kicked because European delegates simply don't like the sport and know they lag behind the rest of the world. In my opinion, the stated reasons have never really added up.

A) Host cities might have to build a facility for a sport they don't play. A diamond is a grassy field with a fence and some bleachers. Throw some seeds on it and a couple of week later you have a rugby/soccer/cricket/etc. pitch.

B) The US women dominate softball. This is true. But, as demonstrated by the history of Olympic soccer, the world can catch up. And that process gets countries to invest in their team sport infrastructure for women. Which is a good thing.

C) It's not international enough. Only true if you think international means "Europe". Three continents have multiple countries with youth/minor/pro leagues that produce talent capable of playing at the highest level of the sport, MLB.

D) MLB doesn't allow their stars to play. True. But I really don't think it has anything to do with the level of competition and is because the the IOC is offended that the sport has the audacity to not drop everything and cater to their whims. And I suspect the IOC wants some of the marketing shine major leaguers would bring. Even though they had nothing to do with developing them.

The last point is interesting because officials in both the NHL and NBA have expressed dissatisfaction with their relationship with the IOC. That's why all three professional leagues are increasingly promoting their own international tournaments, much like FIFA's World Cup. There's a real chance that the NHL won't stop the season for the 2018 games. Is the IOC going to drop hockey as well?

(OK, I'm tired. I'll get off my soapbox now.)

[Quilt Fairy]

And just for giggles, you can sign the petition to make jousting an Olympic sport.

Also, I'd be fine if they cut the eleventy-million swimming events down a bit.  Because apart from seeing well-built guys in really tight swimming trunks, once they dive into the water I find swimming incredibly visually uninteresting.

[Rick Kitchen]

Jousting is the official state sport of Maryland.  :)

[SnideAsides]

Oh, Baltimore.

[SnideAsides]

Skateboarding, surfing, rock climbing, karate, baseball, and softball all added to the 2020 Olympics.

[AimingforYoko]

Excuse me, Rock Climbing?!? Sorry, just because it's a difficult physical activity, it doesn't make it a sport.

[Quilt Fairy]

How do you even judge rock climbing?

[SnideAsides]

I assume speed.

[scarynikki12]

The argument that softball/baseball didn't belong because they were dominated by only one or two countries always made me stabby so I'm delighted they're coming back. I agree that it's got more to do with the MLB refusal to participate and the Euro-centric mentality of the IOC. If they were truly concerned about one or two countries winning every year then they'd have dumped basketball long ago. Or they'd throw a fit about swimming, gymnastics, wrestling which have also been dominated by the same handful of countries since the games began. But they won't.

Now that I typed that I wonder if excitement plays a role. Baseball and softball are often viewed as boring because the best games have the lowest scores. Those of us who enjoy those sports get excited about those low scores but the average person doesn't necessarily enjoy that. Meanwhile, basketball, swimming, gymnastics, and even wrestling can get the average viewer invested quickly. So, they're always safe even though they too are dominated by the same few countries each games. 

As a final thought I would laugh so hard if an IOC official tried to ban swimming on the grounds that the US always wins the Medly Relay and such domination should not be allowed. He'd get fired so fast it would be hilarious. 

[Rick Kitchen]

44 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

Now that I typed that I wonder if excitement plays a role. Baseball and softball are often viewed as boring because the best games have the lowest scores. Those of us who enjoy those sports get excited about those low scores but the average person doesn't necessarily enjoy that. Meanwhile, basketball, swimming, gymnastics, and even wrestling can get the average viewer invested quickly. So, they're always safe even though they too are dominated by the same few countries each games. 

(Bolding mine)

*cough*soccer*cough*

[scarynikki12]

Exactly! Soccer is considered more exciting generally though.

[SnideAsides]

It might be a TV thing. For all its faults as a sport, soccer is relatively fast and transfers to TV pretty well, even when nobody scores. But baseball... is slow at the best of times, and you're probably never going to get a full Olympics game televised when there are ~30 other more immediately exciting sports to deal with.

[Mittengirl]

I love baseball, but soccer bores me to tears, as does basketball.  

[Daisy]

I remember reading that truly the underlying reason why baseball/softball was off the docket was that London simply did not want to build a diamond. They had presented a budget and their reasonings of how they were keeping the budget small by utalising all the old venues and sprucing them up. they don't have an Olympic standard diamond and had no intentions of building one.

Bye bye Baseball/Softball. 
(the other stuff - totally factors). Baseball being UBER popular in Asia - it makes sense to bring it back, (as well as that sport actually coming in as a joint bid - not two separate identities). I wouldn't ignore the "being dominate" as a factor for it not staying either. Women's Hockey every four years gets that "well, you know, we may have to see if it makes sense to have a sport only two countries are good at." Gary Bettman basically said in all of his legalese - if Women's hockey gets ditched, the NHL won't be happy, and may not want to come back (which was a hah - because they NEVER want to go). which - the IOC will see what the olympics might look like w/o pros in a headliner sport, because all signs are showing that the League won't budge and go to Asia. (they usually budge, esp. with a work stoppage on the horizon) but still. 

 

I am surprised Rock Climbing and Surfing made it though. 

[Rinaldo]

On July 12, 2016 at 4:03 PM, madhacker said:

IWhat kills me if skateboarding was an event everybody would watch it!! NBC could hire Shaun White and Tony Hawk to cover it.....

And Jason Lee, for us My Name Is Earl fans....

[legaleagle53]

Well, skateboarding is, in fact, going to be in the 2020 Olympics in Tokyo.  So your wish has been granted!

[MarkHB]

I've seen arguments over the years that MLB could accommodate the Olympics by essentially having a long All-Star break and making up the time with this quaint old custom called "scheduled doubleheaders".  The real issue with that, though, at least to me, is that when the Olympics are held in Australia or (hypothetically) New Zealand, they're in September, and there's no way MLB could take two weeks off at the height of the pennant race. 

[FormerMod-a1]

Well, considering there are 162 games in a MLB season, I don't even think they'd need to make them up.  It seems to me there should be a way to just play fewer games. I know that's never going to happen though.  AND that doesn't address the September thing.

[Rick Kitchen]

5 hours ago, aquarian1 said:

Well, considering there are 162 games in a MLB season, I don't even think they'd need to make them up.  It seems to me there should be a way to just play fewer games. I know that's never going to happen though.  AND that doesn't address the September thing.

Actually, MLB is already talking about cutting down the number of games, I guess they're tired of the World Series running into November.

[Superpole2000]

Tug of war. It was included a long time ago and should be revived. Easy to understand, matches are quick, it tests one of the major components of athleticism (strength), and venue/training expenses are almost zero.

Each nation has a team of let's say eight people, with a maximum combined weight in each weight class. Losers get pulled into a pit of mud. Winner stays on and plays the next team up. The four teams with the most wins over a day or two of tugging qualify for the medal round.

[Rinaldo]

That sounds like as good a cue as any for one of the many stories about Weird Things That Were Once Olympic Events. (In some cases, literally only once.)

[Rick Kitchen]

Rope climbing used to be a gymnastics discipline.

[GinnyMars]

I'll add a vote for acrobatic gymnastics, I only recently learned it existed and find it really impressive. Like at 22'27... How does her leg not snap.

[Kromm]

On 7/14/2016 at 7:37 AM, MyAimIsTrue said:

I'm a baseball fanatic and played softball pretty much my entire life until it was finally time to hang up my cleats a couple of years ago but I don't think there's enough world-wide competition in either sport to bring them back to the Olympics.  To me it's not fun watching the same two or three countries battle it out for gold every quadrennium.

A much better chance with Baseball than Basketball though. I mean if somehow the MLB scheduling conflict is worked out, then the MLB alone generally has players from around a dozen countries.

In theory actual competitive teams for baseball could be mounted from:

US (of course)
Canada
Mexico
Dominican Republic
Japan
Haiti
Cuba (if all the embargoes are gone)

And not TOO far behind in a second tier would be:

Venezuela
South Korea
Netherlands
Tapei
Panama
Columbia

Probably a few more I've forgotten. The US would still definitely win, but it would be far more of a contest than Basketball. 

[walnutqueen]

On 8/3/2016 at 11:12 PM, Quilt Fairy said:

How do you even judge rock climbing?

 

On 8/3/2016 at 11:30 PM, SnideAsides said:

I assume speed.

Technique, difficulty and not falling to your death.   ;-)

I'm SO ready to watch Olympic surfing!

[MyAimIsTrue]

11 minutes ago, Kromm said:

The US would still definitely win, but it would be far more of a contest than Basketball. 

Actually I wouldn't guarantee a US win in baseball if Cuba is in the mix, and possibly Japan as well.

[Kromm]

25 minutes ago, MyAimIsTrue said:

Actually I wouldn't guarantee a US win in baseball if Cuba is in the mix, and possibly Japan as well.

The Olympics are still so European controlled (even though they now keep on being hosted in Asia, and now South America), that I wonder how enthusiastic the IOC is to promote a sport that's really only loved by the US, Latin-American countries, and Asia.  I bet they still consider Basketball a big concession to the US (although a really dumb one since its far less international than Baseball). 

[blackwing]

At least one sport that is the counter to the "Baseball is too American" argument is (Field) Hockey.  Especially men's hockey.  I am willing to bet that most Americans have never even heard of this sport.  Apparently some high schools have girl's teams but I suspect that's largely for Title IX reasons.  Does the U.S. even have a men's field hockey team, and if so, where do the players come from?

What about lacrosse?  It's popular in the U.S. and Canada but I thought it was played internationally as well.

[Kromm]

40 minutes ago, blackwing said:

At least one sport that is the counter to the "Baseball is too American" argument is (Field) Hockey.  Especially men's hockey.  I am willing to bet that most Americans have never even heard of this sport.  Apparently some high schools have girl's teams but I suspect that's largely for Title IX reasons.  Does the U.S. even have a men's field hockey team, and if so, where do the players come from?

What about lacrosse?  It's popular in the U.S. and Canada but I thought it was played internationally as well.

Unless things have changed a ton since my school days, Women's Field Hockey should be at a LOT of US Junior High and High Schools (well the non-urban ones at least).  More than girl's basketball I bet, but not nearly as common as soccer or softball.

The way I always recall it, often (but not always) the boys play lacrosse and the women field hockey.  Although girls lacrosse is pretty common at the college level, so I'm sure there must be high school girls teams too leading to that. 

[meep.meep]

That's regional.  Lacrosse is mostly played on the east coast.  Coming from the west, no one, but prep schools and colleges play lacrosse.  I don't remember what the guys were stuck with when the girls played field hockey in the fall.

The one sport that is really the counter to "Baseball is too American" is cricket, because it's popular worldwide, and you need a unique field that then can't be used for anything else.  I bet they tore down the 10-12 softball fields they had to put in for the Sydney games.  That's why it got cancelled.  Bringing it back is a terrible idea.

How about extending the swimming events for several days by reintroducing the side stroke?  You've got all the lengths (50m, 200m, etc), plus all the lengths as medleys (100m side-stroke medley, etc.).  You could add a "choose your stroke" multi-stroke medley where instead of boring old fly, back, breast, and free, each team can choose the four strokes they want to do, as long as the side stroke was one choice.  Lesser nations could still compete, because everyone can do the side stroke.  It's win win win, unless you actually get tired of watching swimming.

Mud wrestling!  Jello wrestling!

[Kromm]

Also, don't Cricket matches take freaking forever?

Also, Cricket has its own long established tournaments and organizers that are entrenched. It would be like the IOC deciding all over again to deal with FIFA (albeit the Cricket organizations couldn't be even 10% as corrupt as both FIFA and the IOC itself). 

[greendog78]

Yes, a Test Cricket match can be up to seven days long. A regular match still takes about eight hours to play.

[Kromm]

I know skateboarding was mentioned upthread, but was the OTHER long-standing X-Game event brought up?  Motocross. At this point it is a sport that has existed for more than a century.  Of course the barrier is... the engine. Even though at the same time it IS a very physical sport. The engine isn't replacing physical skill in the least.

Keep in mind that BMX (aka "bicycle motocross"), what is basically considered a non-motored variation of Motocross, made its way to the Olympics successfully in 2008 (it starts this Olympics in a week). 

Edited August 11, 2016 by Kromm

[Aliconehead]

Quote

bet they still consider Basketball a big concession to the US (although a really dumb one since its far less international than Baseball). 

But there are a lot of European basketball leagues. Of the "American" sports this one has really been embraced. Many players not quite good enough for the NBA go to Spain, Italy and other countries to play.