S08.E15: All Bets Are Off

[LIMOM]

1 hour ago, Diane Mars said:

And ? Maybe he never married before, because he didn't find THE woman to marry (= the one who's like him, with the same point of view regarding marriage, fidelity, etc...) ?

For me, the secret of a successful marriage is NOT what you've got in common, it's having "compatible" neuroticism, lol ! (think -it's not directed to you, it's a "genreral" advice, lol- about it... It's not as crazy as it seems. Really.)

I don't understand this kind of slut shaming (being it a man or a woman), because, according to it, neither my hubby nor I would have been happily married for 10+ years now. And I promised we both had a life (a lot of lives ?) before being together !

 

Where am I slut shaming?

i am a firm defender of Luann's ways!

i wrote earlier that sexual fidelity is not her thing, this is not a judgement on my 

part but rather an explanation on how she conducts her life.

i am too old and too French to worry about who sleeps with whom!

[pasdetrois]

Haven't watched in awhile. Bethenny looks tired and sour all the time. She seems utterly depressed at all times. She must.have.the.last.word.at.all.times and dominate every situation. When she can't, she deflates and shuts down.

If she's so wealthy and successful, which I believe she is, why is she doing the show? Does she need the money? Is it to expand her brand and business? Or is she that desperate for the attention? I don't get it.

She and Carole have their own eating disorders - at worst - or they are overly obsessed with their own food and appearance. As such, their radar picks up instantly on someone who is like them (Jules) and they appoint themselves as her judge and monitor. It's a projection thing, and a competition thing, and I think they are jealous of her appearance. They remind me of vultures circling an injured critter.

Edited July 17, 2016 by pasdetrois

[Otherkate]

11 minutes ago, LIMOM said:

 

i am too old and too French to worry about who sleeps with whom!

Just dropping in to say how much I love this. 

[izabella]

19 minutes ago, pasdetrois said:

Bethenny looks tired and sour all the time.

She does, and that's all she brings to the show.  It has over-shadowed everything else.  She has sucked all the fun out of this show.  Bethy = no more fun.

[zoeysmom]

3 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Personally, I don't think that Lu and Tom's relationship is wrong. Originally, a "made for TV relationship"? Oh yea, I believe that all day long. I don't think that relationship is wrong, but then again, I didn't think the Adam/Carole thing was wrong. If I thought the Adam/Carole deal was wrong, I would think Lu's was as well. 

Where the RH hunter fails with Tom is we have seen him once.  We didn't even see much of him in the Luann special. Luann had no problem having Jacques at several events and even filming in the home.  She only stopped with the relationship started to fail -a good 18 months after the unfortunate pirate incident.  Alex McCord said the reason Luann was "demoted" was because the relationship failed.  I think Luann much like when the Count pulled the plug has enough of sense of family and loyalty to spare the dark reality of a break up.  Something Ramona did as well after being incredibly cruel to Luann.

The shift to zero married veterans has not as always been great for the ratings.  Bethenny ran John off, Carole is selective when Adam will appear and of course Bethenny can't be dragging married man in front of the cameras, as she claims it really doesn't work for her.  Sonja isn't helping matters putting the RH hunter tag on Tom, as if she was truly involved with him for so long-why didn't he ever appear as a date or dating interest?  I think Tom is being given a bad rap and the others who participate in dragging anyone's spouse/significant other or children down deserve backlash.

[jaync]

Quote

It looked like a car floor mat to me.

It did! I highly dislike cauliflower, so I would have no trouble passing on that mess of a dish, no matter how it's shaped. Beth seemed impressed, though. (Maybe it's just me, but there was something slinky-ish in the way she was interacting with Adam.)

I'm glad Jules pointed out that Beth didn't eat, and had no intention of eating, the calzone. Beth disrupted many a meal last season with her own antics and tactics, so she can shut her crabby hole about how "her" dinner was ruined.

Quote

As I said before, it can be corrected, but they really need to cast someone (or preferably several) who can effectively stand up to Bethenny.

Better yet, Beth just needs to go. Her brand has saturated the show long enough.

Granted, she was only shown from one angle, but Jules looked beautiful on WWHL, and no worse for the wear after having just filmed the reunion. I agree with the speculation that Beth and Carole might be jealous of Jules' beauty and youth.

Quote

I have zero doubt that Heather would be on Carole's side no matter what, and she would be getting killed around here as well.

Being a loyal friend doesn't mean being blind. Heather is way too secure in herself and her opinions to just follow a vibe that isn't in accordance with her own.

Quote

I want to talk about Sonja's dinner party. Wasn't that very nice? The only pleasant thing that I have seen on this season. Sonja was kind and sexy and fun.

Amen, and thank the reality show heavens for Sonja. I still want to know about all those bottles of Wesson.

Edited July 17, 2016 by jaync

[NewDigs]

Where is everyone! I was forced to attempt to watch this episode. And I even made it past DJBethy. Ugh.

I'm not hearing Jules raising her voice or screaming at anyone. Seemed to me that the first time B shrieked at her to not raise her voice Jules had actually lowered her voice. And though her volume did somewhat elevate it was never to Bethy's volume.

Glad Jules took on the B but B's responses were, imho, insensitive and ridiculous. Then Jules shares her purge-slip and, unless it was editing which I doubt, sensitive Carole rolled her eyes! Perfect, Carole, show contempt instead of concern. And eat your food. You're too skinny.

Oh, and Carole? Lose the fingerless gloves. Bethany? The 80s called and they want their shoulder pads back. And stop saying you got a UTI from all the stress (insert eyeroll) 'cuz the most common cause of UTIs is sex.

I wish Doris had absented herself from the B-bus conversation. But instead she sat there and listened to B say that she was hurt that Jules had been hurt by B's "humor". Still not seeing the humor and shouldn't she have felt badly about what she said? Not hurt.

Had I been on that bus I would have done what Ramona did, texted. Even while B did her drunk, "I love you, man" speech.

At least Sonja was fun and we had an iota of comic relief. 

[OhGromit]

24 minutes ago, NewDigs said:

Oh, and Carole? Lose the fingerless gloves. Bethany? The 80s called and they want their shoulder pads back. And stop saying you got a UTI from all the stress (insert eyeroll) 'cuz the most common cause of UTIs is sex.

Agree with a lot of your post- just wanted to say that I've gotten UTIs b/c of extreme stress (trial lawyer).  Agree sex causes them too, but sometimes it's stress related, and when it is, you can just tell.  I don't know how to explain how you can tell, but you really can.  And as neurotic and unhappy as Bethenny is, even though we might question whether she's under such significant stress it could give her a UTI, I can see how it could, especially with the health stuff that was freaking her out so much (even if her reaction was over the top to most of us, she's still feeling that scared b/c she's just that intense/ neurotic).

And I'm no longer a Bethenny fan, so that's not where I'm coming from.  I thought it was ridic how they showed her with the freaking IV like she's an invalid. Just saying, I buy the story that her UTI was stress related.

Edited July 17, 2016 by OhGromit

[motorcitymom65]

On July 17, 2016 at 2:05 PM, jaync said:

 

I'm glad Jules pointed out that Beth didn't eat, and had no intention of eating, the calzone. Beth disrupted many a meal last season with her own antics and tactics, so she can shut her crabby hole about how "her" dinner was ruined.

When did she say this? In her blog? It's different than what she said in her TH, which was that Beth didn't eat on the portion that had the culinary tools embedded.  

[SparkleznConfetti]

12 minutes ago, OhGromit said:

Agree with a lot of your post- just wanted to say that I've gotten UTIs b/c of extreme stress (trial lawyer).  Agree sex causes them too, but sometimes it's stress related, and when it is, you can just tell.  I don't know how to explain how you can tell, but you really can.  And as neurotic and unhappy as Bethenny is, even though we might question whether she's under such significant stress it could give her a UTI, I can see how it could, especially with the health stuff that was freaking her out so much (even if her reaction was over the top to most of us, she's still feeling that scared b/c she's just that intense/ neurotic).

And I'm no longer a Bethenny fan, so that's not where I'm coming from.  I thought it was ridic how they showed her with the freaking IV like she's an invalid. Just saying, I buy the story that her UTI was stress related.

 I have to also confess that a UTI can be precipated by stress. I got a uti a couple of years ago within the first 90 days of taking on my most stressful job to date. Just to give you perspective ( most new hires left often by the third day). I left after 1 year but that was not before seeing about 17 coworkers say peace out. I digress, but in all seriousness, my uti was so painful that I had backpain where I could barely walk and struggled to climb up the stairs.

[QuinnM]

Quote

When did she say this? In her blog? It's different than what she said in her TH, which was that Beth didn't eat on the portion that had the culinary tools embedded.  

That's also what was aired during the episode.  Bethenny did give it a taste, like you do.  But Jules is one of those people that believes if you say something over and over, it's the truth.

So we've spent 5 episodes hearing from Ramona and Bethenny that Luann pulled a fast one at a bar and people overheard/saw her.  And for four episodes Luann said it was a lie.  So now she admits that she actually walked out with Tom and left his date at the bar.  Wasn't it her first season when she said she didn't have many girlfriends?  That she wasn't a girls girl?  I wonder why.

[NewDigs]

And in the face of the validity of stress-related UTIs I should cut her some slack.

I don't think I'm there yet. lol

And I also don't think I'm ready to forgive veggieboy for that "pizza". Doesn't he usually do the manbun when he's cooking? The ski cap wasn't very reassuring. And goofy.

I also didn't realize that an implant post could be done with just nitrous and that recovery is so fast. I always pictured something much worse but I consider most dental procedures to be of-the-devil. Glad Sonja made the bus. That atmosphere would have been even more toxic w/o her, imho.

[KungFuBunny]

1 hour ago, motorcitymom65 said:

When did she say this? In her blog? It's different than what she said in her TH, which was that Beth didn't eat on the portion that had the culinary tools embedded.  

At the dinner at Joanne’s:

Bethenny but  you baked a fork, a knife and a measuring cup into a calzone that I ate

Jules because it’s funny

Bethenny That’s not funny

Jules Yes it was funny and I was watching you, you weren’t eating THAT part.  It doesn’t matter. Who cares?

Bethenny I care

So Jules at Joanne’s  acknowledged that Bethenny did eat from the stainless steel infused calzone. Just not the stainless steel part because to her it was funny.

If it was me at the table at Wild, and even if I didn’t eat any part of that calzone I still wouldn’t have found it funny. I also did not see her buddy Dorinda howling in laughter or even mildly giggling.

Question: events are usually hosted..ie. dinner at Joanne's was Dorinda's idea and going to Mohegan Sun is Ramona's idea. Who was the Hostess of the Wild Pizza making event?

Edited July 17, 2016 by KungFuBunny
to ask bottom question

[zoeysmom]

39 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

That's also what was aired during the episode.  Bethenny did give it a taste, like you do.  But Jules is one of those people that believes if you say something over and over, it's the truth.

So we've spent 5 episodes hearing from Ramona and Bethenny that Luann pulled a fast one at a bar and people overheard/saw her.  And for four episodes Luann said it was a lie.  So now she admits that she actually walked out with Tom and left his date at the bar.  Wasn't it her first season when she said she didn't have many girlfriends?  That she wasn't a girls girl?  I wonder why.

I don't think Luann was disputing the end result of leaving with Tom, I think she was disputing the telling, first by Ramona via Bethenny's friend about "Luann rolling up on Tom and saying, 'I am next' and taking him home and fucking him."   The second account, from good friends of Tom's was supposedly had Luann straddling him and grabbing his hand, while he was holding hands with a date.  The day before Luann and Ramona had their talk (this episode) Tom had given an interview to Daily Dish and laid out his account, complete with the fact he and Luann had been at the Mark Hotel with other people when they met.  I don't think Luann was disputing she and Tom met and there were fireworks, I think she objected to the characterization and editorial by Ramona.  To quote Bethenny, in this week's episode, you just don't say something based on hearsay. It was kind of  Luann and Tom's story to tell. Half this show is based on something Ramona or Bethenny heard.

In Luann's special they played the scene with Luann talking to Heather about having had girlfriends interfere with her marriage.  The story was then told of her former friend Honey.  Luann is still friends with Jill, Kelly, Sonja, Dorinda and even people she roomed with in her early 20s.   I think it is fair to say that Luann generally prefers the company of men than a bunch of women.  Ramona on the other hand has fifty girlfriends to a birthday party and can't wait for a girls night out and treats the men she is enticing like eunuchs.  For the most part on this show, until the Carole/Adam thing,Luann has not been a bad friend to the other ladies, she doesn't create controversy for the sake of controversy.  Bethenny's big complaint is she doesn't like Luann's advice and Ramona's seems to be Luann won't follow her advice.

[KungFuBunny]

5 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

I don't think Luann was disputing the end result of leaving with Tom, I think she was disputing the telling, first by Ramona via Bethenny's friend about "Luann rolling up on Tom and saying, 'I am next' and taking him home and fucking him."   The second account, from good friends of Tom's was supposedly had Luann straddling him and grabbing his hand, while he was holding hands with a date.  The day before Luann and Ramona had their talk (this episode) Tom had given an interview to Daily Dish and laid out his account, complete with the fact he and Luann had been at the Mark Hotel with other people when they met.  I don't think Luann was disputing she and Tom met and there were fireworks, I think she objected to the characterization and editorial by Ramona.  To quote Bethenny, in this week's episode, you just don't say something based on hearsay. It was kind of  Luann and Tom's story to tell. Half this show is based on something Ramona or Bethenny heard.

In Luann's special they played the scene with Luann talking to Heather about having had girlfriends interfere with her marriage.  The story was then told of her former friend Honey.  Luann is still friends with Jill, Kelly, Sonja, Dorinda and even people she roomed with in her early 20s.   I think it is fair to say that Luann generally prefers the company of men than a bunch of women.  Ramona on the other hand has fifty girlfriends to a birthday party and can't wait for a girls night out and treats the men she is enticing like eunuchs.  For the most part on this show, until the Carole/Adam thing,Luann has not been a bad friend to the other ladies, she doesn't create controversy for the sake of controversy.  Bethenny's big complaint is she doesn't like Luann's advice and Ramona's seems to be Luann won't follow her advice.

The bolded made me bust out laughing. Thanks for the giggles.

And I'm Pro-mona - Crazy Turtle Rocks!

[motorcitymom65]

On July 17, 2016 at 5:30 PM, zoeysmom said:

I don't think Luann was disputing the end result of leaving with Tom, I think she was disputing the telling, first by Ramona via Bethenny's friend about "Luann rolling up on Tom and saying, 'I am next' and taking him home and fucking him."   The second account, from good friends of Tom's was supposedly had Luann straddling him and grabbing his hand, while he was holding hands with a date.  The day before Luann and Ramona had their talk (this episode) Tom had given an interview to Daily Dish and laid out his account, complete with the fact he and Luann had been at the Mark Hotel with other people when they met.  I don't think Luann was disputing she and Tom met and there were fireworks, I think she objected to the characterization and editorial by Ramona.  To quote Bethenny, in this week's episode, you just don't say something based on hearsay. It was kind of  Luann and Tom's story to tell. Half this show is based on something Ramona or Bethenny heard.

Lu was disputing the notion that Tom was on a date with another girl and he left with her.  Ramona asked her why she made such a big deal of denying it before, and she said "I denied it because I felt under fire from everyone". So she is admitting that she did lie. She said "he came with her, and he left with me"  

In the same scene she also threw out the following nuggets:

"he's a man and I'm a woman, and we do what we want". 

"And you know what, unfortunately people get hurt"  

"you don't steal a man away from a woman.  A man leaves willingly" 

"Tom and I met, it was magic, end of story.  

Whatever Lu.  Why don't you tell Carole that this is the way romance works when you are the one falling hard for a guy.  

[Chicklet]

48 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

"he's a man and I'm a woman, and we do what we want". 

"And you know what, unfortunately people get hurt"  

"you don't steal a man away from a woman.  A man leaves willingly" 

"Tom and I met, it was magic, end of story.

Funny though, I don't think Lu saw it this way when Alex left her for the princess.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Chicklet
fingers gah

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Lu was disputing the notion that Tom was on a date with another girl and he left with her.  Ramona asked her why she made such a big deal of denying it before, and she said "I denied it because I felt under fire from everyone". So she is admitting that she did lie. She said "he came with her, and he left with me"  

In the same scene she also threw out the following nuggets:

"he's a man and I'm a woman, and we do what we want". 

"And you know what, unfortunately people get hurt"  

"you don't steal a man away from a woman.  A man leaves willingly" 

"Tom and I met, it was magic, end of story.  

Whatever Lu.  Why don't you tell Carole that this is the way romance works when you are the one falling hard for a guy.  

The first couple of times Bethenny and Ramona threw out to her that she said "I'm next" to Tom Luann disputed that. She didn't dispute that she left with him or that he was in the company of someone else, just that she never said "I'm next". Again, Bethenny got this info second hand (only she is allowed to use second hand info against someone else) and Ramona got it third hand from Bethenny and I have no problem believing Bethenny added in the comment to up the drama and of course, if Bethenny says it's true, Ramona will go along with it.

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Lu was disputing the notion that Tom was on a date with another girl and he left with her.  Ramona asked her why she made such a big deal of denying it before, and she said "I denied it because I felt under fire from everyone". So she is admitting that she did lie. She said "he came with her, and he left with me"  

In the same scene she also threw out the following nuggets:

"he's a man and I'm a woman, and we do what we want". 

"And you know what, unfortunately people get hurt"  

"you don't steal a man away from a woman.  A man leaves willingly" 

"Tom and I met, it was magic, end of story.  

Whatever Lu.  Why don't you tell Carole that this is the way romance works when you are the one falling hard for a guy.  

When Shannon Beador first came on the show Heather Dubrow accused her of "yelling at her".  Shannon had not.  When questioned at the Reunion why Heather lied, Heather said she equated someone telling her off with "yelling".  She also went into some nonsense about her perception.  To me, when someone distorts or tells a story in such a way as to change the tenor (being under fire) the denial has as much to do with the tenor of the accusation as the actual facts.  Having someone scream at you that you rolled up, said I am next, straddled him and took him home and fucked him. . . leaves a lot of space for denial.  So where Ramona's account of meeting him and leaving with him may be the gist of what happened, the more colorful, animated, angry description provided by Ramona, in the midst of an argument, is what someone is denying.  It was the same with Bethenny claiming Luann "fucked everyone", Luann denied it.  Denying "fucking everyone" isn't necessarily a denial about fucking one person, or ten people. 

Luann told Carole about falling for Tom.  Carole was gracious listened, and congratulated. 

[zoeysmom]

45 minutes ago, Chicklet said:

Funny though, I don't think Lu saw it this way when Alex left her for the princess.

What Luann did say to Kelly when she told her story of Giles leaving her is, "when they don't love you anymore, they don't love you anymore."  Luann has always been fiercely protective of her marriage for inception to the end.  To me there is a huge difference from having a date end with the date leaving with someone else (we have no idea if the dates stuck around for Tom and Luann to sashay away together) and someone e-mailing you the end of a sixteen year marriage that produces two kids and publicly proclaiming their love for a new person.

[motorcitymom65]

Regarding Lu, I'm not judging her behavior based on any of the things others have said about how she and Tom met. I'm judging it based solely on what Lu herself has said.  That he was on a date with another woman, but then left that woman behind and went home with Lu. The details that others might have may vary. She grabbed his hand or he grabbed hers. She said "it's my turn" or she said something else.  The details don't matter that much and the result - whether originally told as second hand or not - is that Lu did indeed meet a guy who was on a date with someone else and leave with him. It's just a shitty thing to do and says all that needs to be said about her. 

[zoeysmom]

7 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Regarding Lu, I'm not judging her behavior based on any of the things others have said about how she and Tom met. I'm judging it based solely on what Lu herself has said.  That he was on a date with another woman, but then left that woman behind and went home with Lu. The details that others might have may vary. She grabbed his hand or he grabbed hers. She said "it's my turn" or she said something else.  The details don't matter that much and the result - whether originally told as second hand or not - is that Lu did indeed meet a guy who was on a date with someone else and leave with him. It's just a shitty thing to do and says all that needs to be said about her. 

Well I think there is more to Luann then how she met her husband to be.  So I will probably keep talking about her. 

The others seem to want her company and she cannot change how she met Tom.  What it do is take her off the market.  I am sure women all over NY are relieved they won't have their date desert them for Luann.

[sasha206]

9 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

If she's so wealthy and successful, which I believe she is, why is she doing the show? Does she need the money? Is it to expand her brand and business? Or is she that desperate for the attention? I don't get it.

I used to love her but I'll be damned if I ever buy a product of hers after watching the awfulness I've watched for the past 2 years.  I would be she's lost a lot of customers based on her performance and her overall vulgarity on social media.

[breezy424]

Well, all I can say is that pizza is important.  And if I'm going to have a pizza, I want it on pizza dough.  I don't want it on cauliflower 'dough'.  Don't get me wrong, I like cauliflower.  I'll gladly take a side of it 'with' my pizza.  Some melted cheese or butter on top would be great.  But I don't want pretend pizza.  If I'm going to 'do' pizza, I want it real.  Glad I got that off my chest.

Interesting that after the Beth/Jules confrontation, Beth was close to tears.  Was it really about her mother and Beth's so called trauma as a child?  Or was it about not being on top with the conversation with Jules?  Beth was quite vulnerable at that point and when Ro brought up the trip, Beth said I'm not going.  A little crack in the her hard shell was going on.   But the crack was about Beth, not the situation of her childhood.  She really does hate her mother because in her eyes her mother was weak.  She 'succumbed' to having an ED as well as being a victim of domestic abuse.  And IMO, this is a reason why Beth is so callous.  She will not be weak no more.  She was weak with Jason 1.0 but that was before her power was safely in place.  The multi million dollar deal with Beam.  Unfortunately, going the opposite direction is no better.  You're going to end up just as unhappy.

I kinda have to agree with Lu on you can't 'steal' a man.  If your man is willing, then you didn't have him to begin with.  I'm still perplexed as to why Beth was so angry with Lu in the Berkshires about Lu owning up about who she sleeps with.  If Lu and Tom are happy, good for them.  Tom not ever being married, so what?  Will the marriage ever take place?  I don't know.  Is she making a mistake?  Who knows.  It's her business.  She's a big girl.  I would never say that Lu had an 'f' upped life.  After seeing her special, it's been pretty fabulous and interesting so I'm in no place to judge.

[straightshooter]

The only thing Bethenny TRULY gives zero fucks about is other people's feelings.   Other than that, she gives plenty of 'em. 

[Yours Truly]

14 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

When Shannon Beador first came on the show Heather Dubrow accused her of "yelling at her".  Shannon had not.  When questioned at the Reunion why Heather lied, Heather said she equated someone telling her off with "yelling".  She also went into some nonsense about her perception.  To me, when someone distorts or tells a story in such a way as to change the tenor (being under fire) the denial has as much to do with the tenor of the accusation as the actual facts.  Having someone scream at you that you rolled up, said I am next, straddled him and took him home and fucked him. . . leaves a lot of space for denial.  So where Ramona's account of meeting him and leaving with him may be the gist of what happened, the more colorful, animated, angry description provided by Ramona, in the midst of an argument, is what someone is denying.  It was the same with Bethenny claiming Luann "fucked everyone", Luann denied it.  Denying "fucking everyone" isn't necessarily a denial about fucking one person, or ten people. 

Luann told Carole about falling for Tom.  Carole was gracious listened, and congratulated. 

Love this explanation because I hate how on these shows cast members will grossly exaggerate the retelling of something littered with shit that's not true but will have the gist of what happened in there somewhere under all the muck so then when the person accused of it says no that's not true they end up getting all this flack for "lying" about it later on and therefore the accuser gets to gloat about being right and gets away with the shade. I hate that. That's why when I'm in a disagreement I stay calm and I SLOOOOOWWW things down so that I can pick out the weeds in the mess and call out the BS that the other person is trying to slip in there to make my so called "offense" sound worse than it really is and if at the end of the day there is still stuff that I can't defend then at least we've narrowed it down to what's true and not a million and one wild accusations that I can't agree to. Keeps me from being able to express regret (if warranted) cause I'm not down with copping to the 20 other accusations hurled at me.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Yours Truly

[RHJunkie]

11 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Regarding Lu, I'm not judging her behavior based on any of the things others have said about how she and Tom met. I'm judging it based solely on what Lu herself has said.  That he was on a date with another woman, but then left that woman behind and went home with Lu. The details that others might have may vary. She grabbed his hand or he grabbed hers. She said "it's my turn" or she said something else.  The details don't matter that much and the result - whether originally told as second hand or not - is that Lu did indeed meet a guy who wason a date with someone else and leave with him. It's just a shitty thing to do and says all that needs to be said about her.

You don't know what else went on in between that though. It's not a nice thing to be a part of but Luann didn't DO anything. So why are were transferring Tom's actions onto Luann and making her responsible for it by saying that Tom's decision is enough to characterize Luann as a person? I have a cousin that went on a date with someone she met online - it was going horribly. She quickly paid for her meal and moved to the bar area and ordered a wine. Some quirky guy came to the bar to refill the pitcher for him and his friends and he randomly starts a conversation. They eventually left the bar and went out for a late snack and continued talking. Almost 2 years later they're still together and in a very committed relationship with one another. What would you say about my cousin's character? Because if you would have made the same inferences about my cousin, you would have been utterly and completely wrong and I would surely be the loudest in the room to confront you and tell you just as much. While you're dismissing the details as if it makes no difference to the characterization that is made about someone, I would stand by the opinion that those details matter a whole hell of a lot before you start assuming the character of someone.

To be clear - I'm not defending Luann's character overall. I'm just responding to your specific comment that Luann's actions that night says all there needs to be said about her character.

[ButterQueen]

If Tom left his "date" for Lu, that is on him.  However, I am not sure I believe that story, since Dorinda said that she set Tom and Lu up.  I hope they get married and enjoy a long life together.  I'm not making any assumptions on whether they will be monogamous, because I don't care.  Maybe it was a condition that the Count insisted on and Lu loved him enough to agree.  These bitches just cannot stand that Lu is happy!

[motorcitymom65]

25 minutes ago, ButterQueen said:

If Tom left his "date" for Lu, that is on him.  However, I am not sure I believe that story, since Dorinda said that she set Tom and Lu up.  I hope they get married and enjoy a long life together.  I'm not making any assumptions on whether they will be monogamous, because I don't care.  Maybe it was a condition that the Count insisted on and Lu loved him enough to agree.  These bitches just cannot stand that Lu is happy!

Dorinda has said that she introduced them via phone. She knew them both and thought they would be great together. Lu has said that 5 or so months before they actually met, they talked on the phone, but they were both busy and never got a chance to meet. They met in November at the bar when Lu apparently said "it's my turn". Not hard for me to picture. Keep in mind, in between the time that Dorinda was trying to get them together and when they actually did get together, Ramona was dating him, and it was in the press. Lu can say that she never read the story and didn't know they had gone on a date (well, that's what she told Beth), but I find it impossible to believe that way over here in Detroit I knew that Ramona was going out with a guy and Lu did not. Impossible to believe. I think Dorinda was trying to get them together, Lu was having fun and didn't see the urgency, then read the article where Ramona was dating the guy that Dorinda was trying to set her up with, and suddenly he was much more interesting to her. You've got to admit, it's a great storyline. Even better if Lu can secure a "Bravo Wedding" for the January nuptials, which will take place smack dab in the middle of filming. 

[Yours Truly]

41 minutes ago, RHJunkie said:

You don't know what else went on in between that though. It's not a nice thing to be a part of but Luann didn't DO anything. So why are were transferring Tom's actions onto Luann and making her responsible for it by saying that Tom's decision is enough to characterize Luann as a person? I have a cousin that went on a date with someone she met online - it was going horribly. She quickly paid for her meal and moved to the bar area and ordered a wine. Some quirky guy came to the bar to refill the pitcher for him and his friends and he randomly starts a conversation. They eventually left the bar and went out for a late snack and continued talking. Almost 2 years later they're still together and in a very committed relationship with one another. What would you say about my cousin's character? Because if you would have made the same inferences about my cousin, you would have been utterly and completely wrong and I would surely be the loudest in the room to confront you and tell you just as much. While you're dismissing the details as if it makes no difference to the characterization that is made about someone, I would stand by the opinion that those details matter a whole hell of a lot before you start assuming the character of someone.

To be clear - I'm not defending Luann's character overall. I'm just responding to your specific comment that Luann's actions that night says all there needs to be said about her character.

I think Lu's easy breezy response to all that is what's causing some of the flack but I don't fault her for it. Look, she's dealing with women whose specific goals are to try their damnest to humiliate her so let's call this what it is. We can't ignore that very true detail in all of this. That's why Lu's reactions, to me, don't come off as badly as if, lets say, I'm out with friends or acquaintances of my own and something like this drops. We know she's being extra oh well, no big deal because she's trying to downplay THEM and any opening for THEM to do what they always try to do. Fuck with her on camera. It comes off bad but as usual these women twist shit so bad that there's no way to react to it 100% gracefully. In her attempts to get out from under their really overdone and over the top accusations she can't help but step in it here and there. Mainly cause they've throw so much shit at her she can't side step EVERY pile. In order to not give in to their BS she has to downplay the situation but by doing that it comes off as very uncaring. Do I think that particular night keeps her up at night? Nope. Do I think she swooped in and yanked that man out of a lip lock with the other woman with a cackle and a wave? Nope. But hearing it from the other women you would think that's what happened and I don't think there's anything wrong with Lu denying the ugly spin they kept putting on it.

I also agree with the point that somehow something Tom did is supposed to define Lu's character. What are we still in the 50's?

[motorcitymom65]

44 minutes ago, RHJunkie said:

You don't know what else went on in between that though. It's not a nice thing to be a part of but Luann didn't DO anything. So why are were transferring Tom's actions onto Luann and making her responsible for it by saying that Tom's decision is enough to characterize Luann as a person? I have a cousin that went on a date with someone she met online - it was going horribly. She quickly paid for her meal and moved to the bar area and ordered a wine. Some quirky guy came to the bar to refill the pitcher for him and his friends and he randomly starts a conversation. They eventually left the bar and went out for a late snack and continued talking. Almost 2 years later they're still together and in a very committed relationship with one another. What would you say about my cousin's character? Because if you would have made the same inferences about my cousin, you would have been utterly and completely wrong and I would surely be the loudest in the room to confront you and tell you just as much. While you're dismissing the details as if it makes no difference to the characterization that is made about someone, I would stand by the opinion that those details matter a whole hell of a lot before you start assuming the character of someone.

To be clear - I'm not defending Luann's character overall. I'm just responding to your specific comment that Luann's actions that night says all there needs to be said about her character.

Because it is enough to characterize her as a person, especially given the way that she treated Carole. By this assertion, Carole didn't DO anything either. It's not just about the fact that she doesn't seem to see anything wrong with a guy starting a date with one woman and leaving with another (obviously it says much more about his character, and her intelligence in getting involved with a player like this). Imagine if the story with Adam was that he was on a date with Lu's niece, but then went home with Carole. 

In your story above - which is awesome by the way - these folks had just met. They didn't know each other or what they were getting into. The gal paid for her wine and ended the date, then met someone else the same night and it has all been lovely. In Lu's case he had been going out with the gal for a couple of months (of course Tom denies this, saying she was just one of many women he was dating at the time). They were on an actual date and he left with someone else. In the Dating Hall of Fame, if any of us on this forum had been going out with a dude on several dates, but then he left one of our dates to go home with another woman, we wouldn't think that strange? And humiliating? And horrible? 

[Yours Truly]

The whole Carole/Adam comparison for everything Lu is just so exhausting.

[Yours Truly]

25 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Because it is enough to characterize her as a person, especially given the way that she treated Carole. By this assertion, Carole didn't DO anything either. It's not just about the fact that she doesn't seem to see anything wrong with a guy starting a date with one woman and leaving with another (obviously it says much more about his character, and her intelligence in getting involved with a player like this). Imagine if the story with Adam was that he was on a date with Lu's niece, but then went home with Carole. 

In your story above - which is awesome by the way - these folks had just met. They didn't know each other or what they were getting into. The gal paid for her wine and ended the date, then met someone else the same night and it has all been lovely. In Lu's case he had been going out with the gal for a couple of months (of course Tom denies this, saying she was just one of many women he was dating at the time). They were on an actual date and he left with someone else. In the Dating Hall of Fame, if any of us on this forum had been going out with a dude on several dates, but then he left one of our dates to go home with another woman, we wouldn't think that strange? And humiliating? And horrible? 

I love how people think Lu is so naive. The reason why they work is probably because they are pretty open about who they are so there is no need to think the other will be keeping secrets. Plus age and experience has a lot to do with things. They aren't brand new. Far from it. To me I see why it's that easy for them to be completely into each other. They both have been playing the field and knows the deal and the game and what they want. Neither one of them HAVE to stop being a part of the single's scene they've chosen to. Tom's been single all this time and has managed to not be married so to me the fact that he want's to take that leap suggests that he wants a different life. All seems pretty believable to me and not at all suspect. Now, I do think the rush is a bit of a risk but hey.

So in your explanation you point out that Tom has claimed that the date he was on is not exactly the same as RHJunkie's story because in Tom's case he new the woman however we don't know if the date was in fact going badly. Or that they decide that they would mingle separately for the remainder of the party or that something wasn't gelling whatever. Point is, everybody's assuming that Tom excused himself from the table to use the restroom and never returned leaving her to wonder where he was. It's assumed that he left his date abruptly and without word. Could be absolutely what happened but for all we know he and his date could have determined that they wouldn't be leaving together before he decided to grab Lu's hand.  Also, I'm trying to understand why Tom's account should automatically be suspect.

I think the wives succeeded it tainting the account of what really went down. The initial shade that was littered all over their versions is embedded in everyone's mind so any other attempts at other perspectives just doesn't jive cause the alleged offense is so great. I personally think the whole thing was way milder than what's being tossed around and I can't assign anything above maybe a relationship misdemeanor to the situation. LOL! At the worst it wasn't completely innocent (which I still think it was) but will acknowledge some insensitivity may have been present in the case of the  Man Bandit Countess. :-) 

Edited July 18, 2016 by Yours Truly

[ElDosEquis]

21 hours ago, izabella said:

She does, and that's all she brings to the show.  It has over-shadowed everything else.  She has sucked all the fun out of this show.  Bethy = no more fun.

"Fun" isn't the only thing she has sucked.

About 'stories'?

My pal and I were at his house and he offered me a sandwich. As we sat at the dinner table putting our snack together, he happened to drop a blob of mustard onto the table. He began to get up to get a paper towel and because we were high, I took a piece of bread and used that wipe the mustard up and then used that as one of the piece to my sandwich.

As years have gone by, the mustard spill went from the table to the floor - and I had to listen to the retelling of the story with me, wiping the floor with a piece of bread. I know what happened, I was there.

I stopped correcting him because it was a moot point, he was never going to STOP telling the story HIS way and I really didn't care because no matter HOW many times he told it, He got one fact wrong.

I am waiting for the story about Lulu meeting Tom to evolve into her giving him head on the table, in front of the other patrons before they left?

[RHJunkie]

54 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Because it is enough to characterize her as a person, especially given the way that she treated Carole. By this assertion, Carole didn't DO anything either. It's not just about the fact that she doesn't seem to see anything wrong with a guy starting a date with one woman and leaving with another (obviously it says much more about his character, and her intelligence in getting involved with a player like this). Imagine if the story with Adam was that he was on a date with Lu's niece, but then went home with Carole. 

In your story above - which is awesome by the way - these folks had just met. They didn't know each other or what they were getting into. The gal paid for her wine and ended the date, then met someone else the same night and it has all been lovely. In Lu's case he had been going out with the gal for a couple of months (of course Tom denies this, saying she was just one of many women he was dating at the time). They were on an actual date and he left with someone else. In the Dating Hall of Fame, if any of us on this forum had been going out with a dude on several dates, but then he left one of our dates to go home with another woman, we wouldn't think that strange? And humiliating? And horrible? 

From the above response, I'm getting the impression that it's really a culmination of incidents that you're referring to and that particular night is just another example to lend to your opinion of Luann. That I understand and respect. I originally interpreted your comment as very cut and dry specific to that event which is why I responded with a personal example.

The details are coming from Ramona which is why I'm not inclined to believe that that's an exact play by play of the events. Ramona keeps changing the amount of times she's gone on a date with Tom so I'm a bit weary of her report of how many dates Tom went on with this woman before that night that he simply walked out with Luann. I definitely don't think it was a 'girls girl' type of move and Luann does admit to being self-absorbed and I can see her being someone who cares more about how a man treats her than how he may treat others. For me, being kind to all people is a necessity for me. It's not kind to ditch someone without any explanation (assuming that's what he did - perhaps he did talk to the woman before leaving).

1 hour ago, Yours Truly said:

I think Lu's easy breezy response to all that is what's causing some of the flack but I don't fault her for it. Look, she's dealing with women whose specific goals are to try their damnest to humiliate her so let's call this what it is. We can't ignore that very true detail in all of this. That's why Lu's reactions, to me, don't come off as badly as if, lets say, I'm out with friends or acquaintances of my own and something like this drops. We know she's being extra oh well, no big deal because she's trying to downplay THEM and any opening for THEM to do what they always try to do. Fuck with her on camera. It comes off bad but as usual these women twist shit so bad that there's no way to react to it 100% gracefully. In her attempts to get out from under their really overdone and over the top accusations she can't help but step in it here and there. Mainly cause they've throw so much shit at her she can't side step EVERY pile. In order to not give in to their BS she has to downplay the situation but by doing that it comes off as very uncaring. Do I think that particular night keeps her up at night? Nope. Do I think she swooped in and yanked that man out of a lip lock with the other woman with a cackle and a wave? Nope. But hearing it from the other women you would think that's what happened and I don't think there's anything wrong with Lu denying the ugly spin they kept putting on it.

I also agree with the point that somehow something Tom did is supposed to define Lu's character. What are we still in the 50's?

Definitely nothing wrong with that. To disagree with the bare bones of what happened that night is to each their own but given that the women haven't even kept their accusations straight and their accusations do seem far fetched, I don't blame Luann either for denying it and being so blase in the process of her denials. I feel that the women are eager to share exaggerated stories because it lends to their narrative of why they dislike Luann (even though what they're accusing her of has zero to do with them). Luann won't win with them and if you can't win, why care?

[motorcitymom65]

On July 18, 2016 at 10:29 AM, Yours Truly said:

I love how people think Lu is so naive. The reason why they work is probably because they are pretty open about who they are so there is no need to think the other will be keeping secrets. Plus age and experience has a lot to do with things. They aren't brand new. Far from it. To me I see why it's that easy for them to be completely into each other. They both have been playing the field and knows the deal and the game and what they want. Neither one of them HAVE to stop being a part of the single's scene they've chosen to. Tom's been single all this time and has managed to not be married so to me the fact that he want's to take that leap suggests that he wants a different life. All seems pretty believable to me and not at all suspect. Now, I do think the rush is a bit of a risk but hey.

So in your explanation you point out that Tom has claimed that the date he was on is not exactly the same as RHJunkie's story because in Tom's case he new the woman however we don't know if the date was in fact going badly. Or that they decide that they would mingle separately for the remainder of the party or that something wasn't gelling whatever. Point is, everybody's assuming that Tom excused himself from the table to use the restroom and never returned leaving her to wonder where he was. It's assumed that he left his date abruptly and without word. Could be absolutely what happened but for all we know he and his date could have determined that they wouldn't be leaving together before he decided to grab Lu's hand.  Also, I'm trying to understand why Tom's account should automatically be suspect.

I think the wives succeeded it tainting the account of what really went down. The initial shade that was littered all over their versions is embedded in everyone's mind so any other attempts at other perspectives just doesn't jive cause the alleged offense is so great. I personally think the whole thing was way milder than what's being tossed around and I can't assign anything above maybe a relationship misdemeanor to the situation. LOL! At the worst it wasn't completely innocent (which I still think it was) but will acknowledge some insensitivity may have been present in the case of the  Man Bandit Countess. :-) 

More and more on these shows we are left to speculate because so much of the actual dama happens off camera. So we are all left to cobble conflicting stories together. Ramona said that the other woman was hurt. Was she? I don't know. Did she have a reason to be hurt? I don't know. Lu didn't sanitize that part of it. She said "he came with her and he left with me". She said, "we are grown-ups, and we do what we want, and sometimes people get hurt". Those were her words, she didn't deny the other woman was upset or hurt, just that they had been serious. She takes no ownership in the other woman maybe being hurt because she is happy. She wants for others to be happy for her and cannot understand a world where they are not. I get that, and I don't really think she is that wrong to want for her friends to be happy for her. Again, this is a bigger deal because we are talking about Lu, and the fact that she couldn't believe that someone else was pursuing their own happiness last season, while at the same time not caring about the supposed hurt they might leave behind. Again, I know that many don't agree with or see the similarities in the two situations, but I believe that Lu does in retrospect. I believe that we will see Lu give a much more heart-felt apology to Carole at the reunion, and say that she regrets the way that she treated her. Regrets that she wasn't happy for a friend that seemed to find a bit of happiness.  

On July 18, 2016 at 10:10 AM, Yours Truly said:

The whole Carole/Adam comparison for everything Lu is just so exhausting.

Well, yes, but it became the entire storyline last season. I hardly remember anything else. It's hard to not make a comparison. 

[Yours Truly]

4 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

More and more on these shows we are left to speculate because so much of the actual dama happens off camera. So we are all left to cobble conflicting stories together. Ramona said that the other woman was hurt. Was she? I don't know. Did she have a reason to be hurt? I don't know. Lu didn't sanitize that part of it. She said "he came with her and he left with me". She said, "we are grown-ups, and we do what we want, and sometimes people get hurt". Those were her words, she didn't deny the other woman was upset or hurt, just that they had been serious. She takes no ownership in the other woman maybe being hurt because she is happy. She wants for others to be happy for her and cannot understand a world where they are not. I get that, and I don't really think she is that wrong to want for her friends to be happy for her. Again, this is a bigger deal because we are talking about Lu, and the fact that she couldn't believe that someone else was pursuing their own happiness last season, while at the same time not caring about the supposed hurt they might leave behind. Again, I know that many don't agree with or see the similarities in the two situations, but I believe that Lu does in retrospect. I believe that we will see Lu give a much more heart-felt apology to Carole at the reunion, and say that she regrets the way that she treated her. Regrets that she wasn't happy for a friend that seemed to find a bit of happiness.  

The expense of last seasons happiness came with a bit of a cost for Lu so to me at least there's a reason for Lu's reaction. This season these women are NOT affected by Lu's happiness. There was no expense had by THEM so that's why I can't with the Carole/Adam comparison with the way these women are going after Lu and being extremely deliberate with their bereting and undermining of Lu's budding relationship. They are deliberately trying to be hurtful just for the sake of it whereas Lu's bad behavior came from an emotional place not just because one day she woke up and decided she wanted to be a raging bitch to Carole.

[Yours Truly]

46 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

 

Well, yes, but it became the entire storyline last season. I hardly remember anything else. It's hard to not make a comparison. 

I think it's apples and oranges. The details surrounding Carole and Adam's pairing was of a sensitive nature for Lu. See even admitted to that detail being a factor which still get met with skepitism which I find completely astounding because I actually came to that conclusion before she even admitted that the family connection played a part in how she emotionally processed what was going on. Easy deduction to make in my opinion so when that details keeps being left out when comparing Lu's romance with a person that has no major connections to anyone else and they quite honestly don't seem to give a rat's ass about "losing out on Tom" I find it a stretch of a comparison to make. Family involvement it a big difference to me.

[ElDosEquis]

19 hours ago, QuinnM said:

That's also what was aired during the episode.  Bethenny did give it a taste, like you do.  But Jules is one of those people that believes if you say something over and over, it's the truth.

So we've spent 5 episodes hearing from Ramona and Bethenny that Luann pulled a fast one at a bar and people overheard/saw her.  And for four episodes Luann said it was a lie.  So now she admits that she actually walked out with Tom and left his date at the bar.  Wasn't it her first season when she said she didn't have many girlfriends?  That she wasn't a girls girl?  I wonder why.

Well, it's fairly obvious that Lulu would deny leaving a function with someone else - someone who wasn't her date at the start of the evening?

It just adds to the Legend of the Countess.

(As told by me.........)

There once was a Countess who loved sex.

It was told that she loved pirates, anal and, for good measure, was a squirter.

The Countess never denied the fact that she liked to bump uglies, but she never advertised it, she had a little decorum when it came to sex.

And one day, she came to her friends to tell them she was in love and was engaged.

This threw some of the other harpies into a tizzy.

Three of the harpies were in 'relationships' already, One was divorced and the worst of the group, who was working on her 'unconscious uncoupling' was furious.

She huffed and puffed and called the Countess a whore, slut, liar and fuck doll. But what the rest of the group didn't know is that the soon-to-be divorced slut-cake was seeing and dating a married man!!!

Of course! She was projecting her own unhappiness on being in a 'relationship' with a man who was married to someone she knew....Her own guilt at being a slut and whore just manifested itself into a red hot hatred because the Countess COULD tell people she was getting laid, She didn't have to lie or hide the fact that she was seeing a 'married man' - the Countess was free to consort with whomever she chose, She didn't have to hide or be ashamed she was getting a little something-something.

While the Countess WAS a little over the top with her profession of love, But it's up to her beau, if he is ready for eggs 'a la francaise' for the rest of his life, because that is the only breakfast dish that she could cook...

and they lived happily ever after, the end, Fin and no mas.......

[eurekagirl mOo]

Carols twitter makes her sound like Jim Marchese. NOT a compliment.

[ButterQueen]

Years ago, I was at a bar and ran into an old school friend.  He came with another girl, but we talked and danced.  We ended up getting married, so Lu's situation doesn't bother me at all.

[WireWrap]

57 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

More and more on these shows we are left to speculate because so much of the actual dama happens off camera. So we are all left to cobble conflicting stories together. Ramona said that the other woman was hurt. Was she? I don't know. Did she have a reason to be hurt? I don't know. Lu didn't sanitize that part of it. She said "he came with her and he left with me". She said, "we are grown-ups, and we do what we want, and sometimes people get hurt". Those were her words, she didn't deny the other woman was upset or hurt, just that they had been serious. She takes no ownership in the other woman maybe being hurt because she is happy. She wants for others to be happy for her and cannot understand a world where they are not. I get that, and I don't really think she is that wrong to want for her friends to be happy for her. Again, this is a bigger deal because we are talking about Lu, and the fact that she couldn't believe that someone else was pursuing their own happiness last season, while at the same time not caring about the supposed hurt they might leave behind. Again, I know that many don't agree with or see the similarities in the two situations, but I believe that Lu does in retrospect. I believe that we will see Lu give a much more heart-felt apology to Carole at the reunion, and say that she regrets the way that she treated her. Regrets that she wasn't happy for a friend that seemed to find a bit of happiness.  

Well, yes, but it became the entire storyline last season. I hardly remember anything else. It's hard to not make a comparison. 

I agree that Luann's attitude about her/Tom juxtaposed to her attitude about Carole/Adam last season is hypocritical but we don't know all the facts because it happened off camera and both Bethenny /Ramona have no problems exaggerating/embellishing stories in order to make another HW look bad.

Ramona didn't know the woman that Tom was with nor did Bethenny, so they don't know if she was upset or if Tom talked to her before her left with Luann, everything they "know" is second hand from someone else. Also, we don't know if Luann knew he was on a "date" with someone before she left with him or not because all parties said that Tom/date were part of a group at the restaurant/bar when they met. That she is downplaying it now, after the fact, doesn't mean that she was Ok with when she initially found out about it and I think/suspect that she is denying things because she knows the others are using it to try and paint her a predatory female that should never be around anyone else's guy, that she is untrustworthy.

I do agree that Luann will most likely address/apologize to Carole about last season. 

[eurekagirl mOo]

On 7/15/2016 at 3:45 PM, ElDosEquis said:

I know better than to ask a woman's age in years, they don't seem to be so up tight when you ask them about how many "summers" they have left? ; )

WTF?? Somebody asks me how many fucking summers I have LEFT I'm going to ask if they know something about a deathly illness I didn't know I had! Here's a tip....Don't ask!

[ButterQueen]

I didn't hear that Dorina introduced Tom and Lu over the phone.  Anyway, Ramona has changed her stories 100 times, so I don't believe her.

[zoeysmom]

The reason the Tom Luann story is so full of conflicting stories is essentially these women are not paying attention to the calendar.

Luann and Tom met right before Thanksgiving 2015, let's call it November 24, 2015-a few days after the Tipsy Girl Party.

Tom is first mentioned with Ramona in a RadarOnLine story on September 17, 2015:    http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/ramona-singer-boyfriend-dating-thomas-dagostino/  Notice several months, not exclusive, out to dinner.  Ramona in the Hamptons in December said a couple of dates, it then grew to seven and eventually 12 once the show aired.  In her Bravo blog she said she had six dates from August to September of 2015. 

So at the time of the Hampton's confrontation, Ramona had not "dated" Tom for three months, at the time Luann met him, she had not been with him for at least two months.  That is when Luann downplayed the great romance as she had Tom telling her he and Ramona had dinner a couple of times with friends.  In any event, Ramona had no expectation of Luann checking in with her.  Now Ramona's story has changed and Tom was dating the woman he arrived at the Mark Hotel for THREE MONTHS at the time Luann and Tom met at the Mark Hotel.  So that would mean Ramona was also dating Tom while he was dating unidentified woman. 

Add next and for purposes of this post, all the women knew of Ramona's dating Tom.  Sonja has said she would not have been with Tom if he had been dating Ramona.  So Sonja by her own admission was probably not with Tom during the three months prior to him meeting Luann.  Unless of course upon seeing the article Sonja intentionally contacted Tom. 

So on December 8, 2015, Luann announced to Sonja and Ramona her dry spell was over.  December 14, 2015, was the Hamptons blow out.  The last time these women got together in 2015 was Ramona's December 19, 2015, Christmas party.  Luann did say she had a date, sadly she was wearing the red lace jumpsuit.

On January 4, 2016,one of the nighttime Hollywood shows runs a blurb, the Countess is dating again and an engagement is not far off.  The next time Luann films with anyone is Ramona on January 6, 2016, when Luann cops to really liking Tom and Ramona drops the old girlfriend/gold bracelet bombshell.  On January 13, 2016, Luann films with Bethenny before Tommy Tune and she tells her she is over the moon in love.  Luann returns to Palm Beach and misses the stainless steel pizza party.  Luann is LA filming a show with Christy Teigen around Febraury 1st.  Another story appears on February 5, 2016, Luann getting hitched.  Between returning from LA and February 9th (Luann is now in Vail) the story appears in Page Six.  Bethenny starts trouble February 11th by announcing Tom had "bedded" both Ramona and Sonja.

My point is I think the relationship picked up steam after Ramona's holiday party.  So when Ramona is saying she has only known Tom four weeks it is really closer to 2 1/2 months.  Do I think Tom and Luann became exclusive on November 24, 2015?  No.  I do think by the time the new year rolled around they had become exclusive and these unwell wishers were really grasping at straws to try and diminish their happiness.  One of the harridans said, Luann had been married two or three times and he was just a playboy.  Reality is Luann had been married once and he has not been married.  When Ramona was going on and on about living four season with someone-well they will have been together for 13 months when they tie the knot. 

Anyway between exaggerate accounts of how they met up at the Mark Hotel, Ramona's ever changing story of how many dates.  I have to go with Tom's account of how vested he was in the relationship with Ramona (not) and the reality of his Sonja years.  Dorinda who arguably has know Tome the best seems pretty clear where he stood prior to meeting Luann. 

[KungFuBunny]

I still want to know how Jules had her accident and the timeline. All I got was windowsill. The I got the catheter out this morning the day she spoke to Sonja before the Dog Wedding doesn’t jive with the other parts of her story. She spent 3 days in the hospital.  Her trip to Dr Creepy plastic surgeon, he glanced at a swollen mutilated pistachio and then suggested lip injections for the ones under her nose. Does Jules have Muffhausen By Proxy?

Are Sonja and Luanne really friends? If yes, why say in her TH shots that she and Tom were friends with benefits for over 10 years? Did she tell Luanne in private – as they seemed to spend time on screen and via texts – before the Joanne dinner? Luanne’s shock at Sonja’s announcement seemed genuine to me.  Why would you make that announcement then in front of all of the other cast members. So was Luanne acting? I do believe Tom and Sonja hooked up more than once just not horizontally...and the upper east side locales were various parts of Boutique – i.e. the men’s bathroom stall, the dumpster in the alley, behind a potted plant.  But I also don’t think it was over a 10 year period.

[ElDosEquis]

55 minutes ago, eurekagirl mOo said:

WTF?? Somebody asks me how many fucking summers I have LEFT I'm going to ask if they know something about a deathly illness I didn't know I had! Here's a tip....Don't ask!

I don't bother asking a woman her age or guess.

I sneak a peek at the expiration date stamped on the inside part of her left thigh.

[izabella]

17 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said:

Are Sonja and Luanne really friends? If yes, why say in her TH shots that she and Tom were friends with benefits for over 10 years? Did she tell Luanne in private – as they seemed to spend time on screen and via texts – before the Joanne dinner?

Sonja told Luann that she had been banging Tom for 10 years (insert eyeroll) long before the Joanne dinner.  Lu told Sonja she and Tom were in love when they were in Sonja's kitchen one morning, and then Sonja said it (Tom?  MY Tom?  The one I've been banging for 10 years?) - it was all on camera.  So she was not revealing any new info to Luanne at Joanne's.  Bethy already knew about it, too, but wanted to make it a big deal in front of everyone so she questioned Ramonja about the "lots of men they had shared with Lu"....which amounted to Harry Dubin.

Edited July 18, 2016 by izabella

[Lisin]

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[Yours Truly]

8 minutes ago, izabella said:

Sonja told Luann that she had been banging Tom for 10 years (insert eyeroll) long before the Joanne dinner.  Lu told Sonja she and Tom were in love when they were in Sonja's kitchen one morning, and then Sonja said it (Tom?  MY Tom?)   The one I've been banging for 10 years?) - it was all on camera.  So she was not revealing any new info to Luanne at Joanne's.  Bethy already knew about it, too, but wanted to make it a big deal in front of everyone so she questioned Ramonja about the "lots of men they had shared with Lu"....which amounted to Harry Dubin.

I think Lu's shocked reaction was that Sonja played into the stirring that was obviously happening. It's like they passed Sonja the baton and it was her turn to using this embarrassing information at the table for everyone else's amusement and Sonja didn't bat an eyelash. Yup, I've been banging him, complete with coy eyes, smirk and shrug. I'm surprised she didn't lick her fingers she looked so satisfied. She didn't even try to soften the blow. I think Lu's reaction was more about how quick and easy Sonja jumped on board and went in for the kill with her juicy information.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Yours Truly