S01.E05: Flesh is Weak

[formerlyfreedom]

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Pope goes to extreme measures when Deran won't return home. Meanwhile, Baz comes up with an idea for Cody's next job; J goes out with his teacher; and Smurf faces her past.

 

[atomationage]

Better and better!!!  The actor playing Daren played Luke Snyder on ATWT some years ago. 

Edited July 2, 2016 by atomationage

[formerlyfreedom]

Damn, this show is horrifying. It's a freaking trainwreck that I can't look away from.

[NorthstarATL]

It's like none of them have any boundaries. I knew the guy who was giving J a hard time was a test. But I was surprised at the end with the teacher. I am looking forward to an explanation. J's mother dying and his being taken in by the "gang" was pretty sudden from what I could tell. I found it interesting that Smurf was wearing full PJs when she welcomed Deran back. Has that been her norm and I haven't noticed? I think I'm getting better at keeping track of who's who, and even, to some extent, who is sleeping with who.

[I-Kare]

Two observations that I could be way off base on: 1) I think Pope knows about Deran. The stuff about the sponge was his weird way of showing concern. And I think it *is* concern, rather than some sort of bigotry. 2) I think it seemed like Baz was disappointed that Deran came back, but not because of some rivalry, more like he hoped Deran had escaped their life. 

Still loving this show. So many layers left to reveal and I for one like that we're getting everything a little at a time.

[sjohnson]

Besides getting Deran back, this is mostly starters: Smurf starts chasing the dude in the print who at a guess is J's grandfather; Baz starts planning to rip off Nikki's Dad's Navy money job, whatever that is; J starts chasing his teacher (his smug expression when he leaves says he thinks he's under her skin); some detective starts working J with the teacher in some bizarrely convoluted plan that neglects to understand how awesomely special J is, so that he might work her; Pope starts his campaign to replace Baz by getting Deran back. 

As to Deran's love life, I suppose it's possible there really are sadomasochistic gay relationships too. Supposedly the submissive in straight SM relationships sets the boundaries but maybe that's just PR and this sort of thing really can work like this? But really it mostly just seems to be played for some lurid. As of now I'm pretty sure not only J but Smurf knows, and Pope not only knows but knows who his current sort of boy friend is. 

Smurf's sudden lesbian chic is definitely for lurid, i think. I'm not sure I understand what she was supposed to be doing, but maybe that's for the better?

Craig probably thinks he was being reasonable and feels very put out. 

[portfino]

I'm really growing to like this after only being ifffy about the first couple. These people are the sum of their bad choices and their guilt causes them to dig even deeper. It's lurid but at the same time deeply sad.

[I-Kare]

I didn't find Deran's love life any more lurid than Craig's. He and his dealer/gf threw each other around manhandled each other and snorted coke off each other's bodies. 

[formerlyfreedom]

1 hour ago, NorthstarATL said:

It's like none of them have any boundaries.

I think this is the trainwreck part that draws me to it. They really don't.

 

54 minutes ago, I-Kare said:

I think Pope knows about Deran. The stuff about the sponge was his weird way of showing concern. And I think it *is* concern, rather than some sort of bigotry.

I'm inclined to agree - there was something about their interaction that made it seem like Pope knows exactly what Deran's demons are, and he's okay with them - he just wants his little brother to be safe. Even the story about the kid Pope beat up as a kid - he never asked, he just did it?

 

39 minutes ago, sjohnson said:

Craig probably thinks he was being reasonable and feels very put out. 

Poor dumb Craig. He just really is missing ALL the hidden subtext isn't he?

 

30 minutes ago, portfino said:

It's lurid but at the same time deeply sad.

Yes. Very much this. I really can't look away, and that's unusual for me. Kudos to all the cast, but especially Ellen Barkin and Jake Weary - their performances as Smurf and Deran are incredible, and Shawn Hatosy as Pope is a bit chilling. And Baz and Craig can hang around because one is eye candy, and the other is comic relief. I'll let you guess which is which... ;)

[I-Kare]

1 minute ago, saoirse said:

I'm inclined to agree - there was something about their interaction that made it seem like Pope knows exactly what Deran's demons are, and he's okay with them - he just wants his little brother to be safe. Even the story about the kid Pope beat up as a kid - he never asked, he just did it?

It definitely was an odd correlation - comparing Deran with the sponge -  but it made sense in a Pope sort of way. 

[formerlyfreedom]

4 minutes ago, saoirse said:

it seem like Pope knows exactly what Deran's demons are, and he's okay with them

And on re-reading - I wanted to be clear, I'm not saying being gay is a demon - but dealing with it is Deran's demon. He's trying to reconcile that with the world that he grew up in, which doesn't seem terribly accepting of the idea of someone in the family being gay.

I actually liked Pope more tonight, because I think (hope?) that he's trying to give his brother support, albeit in a pretty dysfunctional way. Baz...well, Scott Speedman pretty points are have all been used up. And I'm giving Baz a big ole side eye...

[missbonnie]

3 hours ago, saoirse said:

Damn, this show is horrifying. It's a freaking trainwreck that I can't look away from.

I feel the same way! It's almost like I need to go take a shower after I finish the episode. LOL 

[Artsda]

On 7/2/2016 at 2:28 PM, atomationage said:

Better and better!!!  The actor playing Daren played Luke Snyder on ATWT some years ago. 

Yes and his mother is Kim Zimmer. Reva Shayne-Lewis from Guiding Light.

I agree with the trainwreck, the family is so all over the place with so much secrecy and going on. I like that so much is going on.

Edited July 6, 2016 by Artsda

[Laurie4H]

Was J's girlfriends stepmom the detective that met with the teacher at the end?  That part caught me by surprise.  I guess I watch too many Lifetime movies so the teacher seducing the student seemed like just another typical plot.  C. Thomas Howell pops up in so many things.  Glad he is steadily working.  

[sjohnson]

I don't think they're the same woman. Tried to double check on imdb but the episode cast doesn't include C. Thomas Howell, much less his wife. Det. Yates is played by Nicki Michaux. 

[Chaos Theory]

This show gets more and more fun each week.  I was geniunly surprised when Smurf ended up having sex with that female artist.  That woman is all kinds of smoooooth.  She had J's girlfriends father going around in circles.

I do think Pope knows about Darin.  It's the way he says things and the look on his face when he says it.  I think all the brothers know but what do a bunch of alpha males say to their gay baby brother?  

I though the scenes with J and the teacher were weird and creepy in all the ways that make this show so fascinating.  I was almost disappointed when the teacher went to meet the cop (J's girlfriend stepmom?). Twisty.

Edited July 6, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[atomationage]

9 hours ago, Artsda said:

Yes and his mother is Kim Zimmer. Reva Shayne-Lewis from Guiding Light.

That's wonderful.  I think Weary does look like his mum.  I'm liking Craig more after this episode.  I liked his little speech to Sage, and Sage's reaction.  I don't remember what Pope has said to Daren about being gay in the show.  In the movie, he says something about his clothes.  For people who haven't seen the movie,

Spoiler

At the end of the movie, only Smurf, Daren, and Jay are left alive and together.  Baz and Craig got killed by the cops, and Jay kills Pope just before the end.  Pope killed Nikki by overdose and maybe asphyxiation.   

I doubt that any of that will happen in the tv series. 

I can't believe that gray haired old man is C Thomas Howell. 

[iMonrey]

I can't figure out what Smurf was after with the photographer. At first I thought she was just trying to figure out what J was up to but she did seem genuinely interested in that one surfer's photo. Then there was that strange flashback. The thing is, though - it's impossible to tell who the hell that surfer is in the photo. He's backlit and all you can really see is hair and a silhouette. I don't know how she managed to recognize him from the photo much less a postcard advertisement with a miniature version of it. 

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And Baz and Craig can hang around because one is eye candy, and the other is comic relief. I'll let you guess which is which... ;)

They're both eye candy in my book. And Ben Robson cleans up real nice.

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I do think Pope knows about Darin.  It's the way he says things and the look on his face when he says it.

It was the way Pope asked the surf shop guy (Adrian?) if he knew where Daren was that made me think he knew about them.

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The actor playing Daren played Luke Snyder on ATWT some years ago. 

He was also in a little indie film called "It Follows." Most terrifying movie ever.

[MaggieG]

Really enjoying this show. 

I'm guessing the surfer guy in the pic is one of the boys's dad or Smurf's brother? We also found out her real name, Janine! (If that's even true)

I also think Pope knows about Deran. 

Smurf hooking up with the photographer to me looked like using whoever she needs to in order to get what she wants. 

[sjohnson]

Janine, Julia, Jonathan/J...I'm seeing a pattern. But I think the girl in the pool was Julia and the surfer guy was her dad on a visit. Perhaps he's the one Smurf really feels sentimental about, or maybe it's about a handle on J?

[sugarbaker design]

It seemed to me that Smurf was having a flashback to her childhood, that this was the first time she was meeting the long-haired guy who was backlit just like the photo.

[sjohnson]

10 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

It seemed to me that Smurf was having a flashback to her childhood, that this was the first time she was meeting the long-haired guy who was backlit just like the photo.

The guy in the picture didn't seem to be that old for a start. But for me, most of all, is that I had the distinct impression the girl was in the same swimming pool/grounds. Also, it seems unlikely to me a father would be hiding from Smurf, he'd think he'd just whip her. A boy friend/father of Julia, yeah. Thing is, I can't remember what the girl in the bathroom mirror flashback looked like. And I don't know whether Julia was supposed to resemble Smurf

[sugarbaker design]

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The guy in the picture didn't seem to be that old for a start.

Same here, it seemed like a 13 year old (more or less) Smurf swimming up to a young adult man.

 

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But for me, most of all, is that I had the distinct impression the girl was in the same swimming pool/grounds.

Same here, looks like Smurf inherited her house.

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Also, it seems unlikely to me a father would be hiding from Smurf, he'd think he'd just whip her.

This is where you lose me, I didn't notice any hiding whatsoever, I watched a barely teen-age Smurf swimming in her family pool, coming to the surface and meeting a mysterious backlit, long-haired stranger.

[tennisgurl]

I am really liking this show, I feel like it is getting more and more interesting (creepy, but interesting). I am still trying to put the backstory together, but I am getting a clearer picture now. 

J and the teacher is just really awkward, and now she is apparently working with a cop? Is she just flirting with J because the cop asked her too? How does that work? 

I am in the "Pope knows about Darin" camp. And he was trying to help him, I think, in his scary, dead eyed way. Good Lord this family is messed up. 

[Kuther2000]

Nikki's stepmother and the cop are not the same person. They don't really look that much alike.

[iMonrey]

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Is she just flirting with J because the cop asked her to? 

Presumably the police have been trying to nail this family for years. Back in the first episode, when J left the house, he saw a police car driving slowly by and eyeballing the place. My assumption is that the closest they've ever come to taking down these guys is the bank job Pope went to jail for. He was the only one indicted and everyone else got off scot free.

I'm guessing the police have had an eye out on this family ever since (and maybe even prior to that) and when they found out J was moving in they saw an opportunity to get some kind of evidence against them so they (somehow) hooked up with one of his teachers and got her to basically infiltrate his life, get close to him, and hopefully get him to spill some incriminating dirt the police could use to arrest the family.

But I think the monkey wrench in their plans is that the teacher is actually going to fall for J.

[sjohnson]

1 hour ago, sugarbaker design said:

Same here, it seemed like a 13 year old (more or less) Smurf swimming up to a young adult man.

Same here, looks like Smurf inherited her house.

This is where you lose me, I didn't notice any hiding whatsoever, I watched a barely teen-age Smurf swimming in her family pool, coming to the surface and meeting a mysterious backlit, long-haired stranger.

Really did not get the impression that Smurf came from that kind of money. That's a nice house now, and even nicer twenty some years ago. But fifty years ago it could have passed for rich man's summer house, I think. And I suspect it would be a little less stylish, if not worn, by now, if it were that old too. Makes her training in drug thieving and her career choices even more peculiar. 

You're right there's nothing in the flashback suggesting the dude's hiding. That was explicitly said by the photographer, as she told Smurf about how the guy wanted the negatives, etc. He's hiding. The law of "it's a small universe" of TV drama says he's hiding from Smurf, not someone we have no clue about. 

Checking imdb can't find any credits for a young Smurf. Presumably the back lit dude is Young Isaiah. If he was Smurf's first lover (at an illegal age) he might be Pope's father. 

[sugarbaker design]

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You're right there's nothing in the flashback suggesting the dude's hiding. That was explicitly said by the photographer, as she told Smurf about how the guy wanted the negatives, etc. He's hiding.

Gotcha, my misunderstanding.

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Really did not get the impression that Smurf came from that kind of money. That's a nice house now, and even nicer twenty some years ago.

That might be a common tv trope, like Monica and Rachel having a fabulous NYC apartment.  Even SOA's Gemma Teller, who was a pot-smokin', pot stirring' biker chick, she had a fabulous house just like Smurf (and similar parenting styles).

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Presumably the back lit dude is Young Isaiah. If he was Smurf's first lover (at an illegal age) he might be Pope's father. 

Who knows why he's hiding?!  Could be season 2's main plot!

[SingleMaltBlonde]

On 7/5/2016 at 11:21 PM, I-Kare said:

I didn't find Deran's love life any more lurid than Craig's. He and his dealer/gf threw each other around manhandled each other and snorted coke off each other's bodies. 

I think if you mostly have sex by pretending to break in and rape your partner (regardless of respective genders) there are some pretty big issues.  It's interesting to see this kind of family sexual dysfunction to play with the genders reversed....

[topanga]

10 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

Same here, it seemed like a 13 year old (more or less) Smurf swimming up to a young adult man.

 

Same here, looks like Smurf inherited her house.

This is where you lose me, I didn't notice any hiding whatsoever, I watched a barely teen-age Smurf swimming in her family pool, coming to the surface and meeting a mysterious backlit, long-haired stranger.

I rewatched the scene. The young girl was swimming in a motel swimming pool. Behind the long-haired guy, there was a "__ OTEL" sign. And was this Smurf or maybe Julia? Somehow I think the reveal will be something bad, since the guy is in hiding. 

On 7/5/2016 at 9:50 PM, saoirse said:

Damn, this show is horrifying. It's a freaking trainwreck that I can't look away from.

My sentiments exactly. Every story line was strange yet fascinating. Even the Craig story line. His girlfriend almost OD'd on heroin, and the minute she gets out of the hospital, she's smoking weed and snorting coke? And she still has pills?   This girl must want to die. And you'd think Craig would tell her to take it easy. But I guess he was too freaked out after beating up poor, innocent Sage. 

 

9 hours ago, Kuther2000 said:

Nikki's stepmother and the cop are not the same person. They don't really look that much alike.

The women have a similar hairstyle. But besides that, they look quite different. Different skin tone and facial features. 

And is it just me, or is there chemistry between Baz and Nikki? I was happy they didn't kiss, and I hope the show never goes there. 

[I-Kare]

3 hours ago, SingleMaltBlonde said:

I think if you mostly have sex by pretending to break in and rape your partner (regardless of respective genders) there are some pretty big issues.  It's interesting to see this kind of family sexual dysfunction to play with the genders reversed....

I agree! I was responding to the poster above me who said that the sex was lurid...I was just saying that it was no more lurid than the other sex depicted on the show. I completely agree, they all have pretty big issues. 

[SingleMaltBlonde]

8 hours ago, topanga said:

And is it just me, or is there chemistry between Baz and Nikki? I was happy they didn't kiss, and I hope the show never goes there. 

I don't think this ends well for Nikki...Smurf asked her which of her other boys she thought were attractive.  Nikki just thinks her boyfriends Grandma is cool...she has no idea...the fact that J doesn't keep her away from these people makes him a little skeevy in my book.

[Raja]

On 7/6/2016 at 8:36 AM, atomationage said:

 

I can't believe that gray haired old man is C Thomas Howell. 

When he first showed up I wondered if the Animal Kingdom team had anything to do with the mini Southland reunion.

[sjohnson]

I thought it was very clear J is a lot skeevy. If Smurf tells you you are a good liar, you're certified.

[Cranky One]

On 7/6/2016 at 7:24 AM, Laurie4H said:

Was J's girlfriends stepmom the detective that met with the teacher at the end?  That part caught me by surprise.  I guess I watch too many Lifetime movies so the teacher seducing the student seemed like just another typical plot.  C. Thomas Howell pops up in so many things.  Glad he is steadily working.  

 

On 7/6/2016 at 8:07 AM, sjohnson said:

I don't think they're the same woman. Tried to double check on imdb but the episode cast doesn't include C. Thomas Howell, much less his wife. Det. Yates is played by Nicki Michaux. 

Holy Cow! I kept thinking Nicky's dad looked like someone from the very first episode he was on and it finally clicked in this one that it was C. Thomas Howell! Like you, I looked to see if he was a cast member, but found nothing. Weird.

This show is a total trip and I love it!

[formerlyfreedom]

15 minutes ago, Cranky One said:

Like you, I looked to see if he was a cast member, but found nothing. Weird.

Yeah, IMDB isn't real up to date on some of the supporting roles on this show.

[MajorMarket]

On 7/8/2016 at 7:53 AM, Raja said:

When he first showed up I wondered if the Animal Kingdom team had anything to do with the mini Southland reunion.

Exactly!  C. Thomas Howell, Dorian Missick, and Shawn Hatosy were all in Southland set in LA - and now they moved down the coast to Oceanside.  Gosh, I loved Southland (before it went bonkers at the end) so I'm glad to see these guys working again!

On 7/2/2016 at 1:28 PM, atomationage said:

Better and better!!!  The actor playing Daren played Luke Snyder on ATWT some years ago. 

I have to agree - the first 2 episodes made me cringe but I came back for Episode 3.  And, now I've watched Episode 4.  Daren is one messed-up puppy with the self-loathing.  (As a gay man, I can understand where he's coming from - but process that ish.)  I will echo others' comments that Pope is trying to be supportive in a dysfunctional and highly inappropriate way - though funny in a dark way.  Props for Pope's OCD cleaning:  somebody has to clean up!

On 7/7/2016 at 6:01 PM, SingleMaltBlonde said:

I think if you mostly have sex by pretending to break in and rape your partner (regardless of respective genders) there are some pretty big issues.  It's interesting to see this kind of family sexual dysfunction to play with the genders reversed....

I'd wager that Adrian and Deran did this roleplay before but one never knows.  Deran may have known how to break into a house (I'm sure it was in Breaking and Entering 101 taught by Smurf) so that part wouldn't surprise me.  Of course, Adrian may have honestly thought that he was being attacked but realized it was Deran when he spun around.  Then, it turned into some kind of angry sex thing.  (Not judging.)  There was a reference that this all started in Belize via dialogue after the shower; Adrian seems to have processed it already but was trying to coax Deran to admit that he's gay and to stop the self-loathing.

On 7/6/2016 at 0:07 AM, missbonnie said:

I feel the same way! It's almost like I need to go take a shower after I finish the episode. LOL 

^^ This is the ultimate summary!  Though, if I'm going to take a shower, can Baz or J help me scrub?  Pretty please.

Edited July 11, 2016 by MajorMarket
Added one more actor name

[atomationage]

Adrian seemed very impressed by Daren when he jumped off the pier from the skateboard, so I think he's genuinely impressed by him. 

[SingleMaltBlonde]

The scenes with Adrian reminded me of Margie on the first season of Big Love...I waned her to leave her husband and go with the geeky Mormon guy....but the heart wants and all that....

[Valmarmar]

I want to know more about why J's mom left, or was ostracized.  It has been hinted  that there is more to the story.   

Loving this series  !!!   Acting is just right - realistic.  Pope scares the poo out of me.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Valmarmar
spelling

[sjohnson]

?

Edited July 13, 2016 by sjohnson
Oops, wrong thread!

[lucindabelle]

Oh it was definitely a flashback and definitely young smurf. The colors had a 70s feel like the 70s filter on Instagram and it was smurf's knowing smile. And motels are a seedy thing now but they were new and cool in the 60s-70s. 

 

I got a veryCasino vibe, with Sharon Stone and the golf pro she couldn't quirk who had a line about seeing her with braces (although to be honest that line about the braces always confused me because orthodonture is expensive and if she had braces it meant someone cared but...)

 

he looks like her sons because he is at least one of their fathers.

 

i liked ghe the reversal that the inappropriate teacher was not just young and horny.

Edited July 22, 2016 by lucindabelle

[Anela]

I figured the teacher was being used by the police, to get information.