The Bachelor Season 21: Spoilers and Speculation

[CindyBee]

2 hours ago, hnygrl said:

Is it just me, or do most of these women seem to not really be that into Nick?

I get the feeling a lot of them are still there because the powers that be promised them a trip to paradise if they stayed.

As much as I'm liking this season (and I am, Nick is such a slut!) I just think these women are too damn young.

Wonder how Vanessa is taking all the slutty sluttiness of her "Fiance?" And it's gonna get worse...

Well the tabloids would have it that no one was into Nick and they all wanted to bail on the season.  My guess the actual truth is somewhere in between and its the usual mixture of:

1. a few in the bachelor bubble and can't wait be be MRS. NICK VIALL--Danielle M is the leader of this small group

2. those looking to be the next bachelorette--Raven, Rachel, Danielle L, Vanessa;  I actually think Vanessa stuck around not for Nick but a shot at the next lead and then got caught up in the end game of "winning", sorta like Courtney in Ben F's season;  I know this won't be a popular opinion for any right reasons watchers and who see this amazing connection with Nick & Vanessa but that's what I think, so there you go.

3. those looking to hook up with Chase, Robby, Luke, and company in Paradise--everyone else, especially Corinne

[Wings]

I think Vanessa is there for love.  Her friends and family pushed her to apply stating it was time to do something for herself.  She appeared to be taking a hard look at Nick to see if he was a fit for her as illustrated in her talk with him. 

Most women are looking for love so I would put the majority in that category. 

As far as wanting something more out of the exposure, that is always a perk for everyone and on their minds, of course.  It doesn't mean they dont want to find love on the way.  BiP is a good consolation prize for those who make it far but miss the bachette slot.  Raven and Corinne are good contenders, so far.  Too early to guess who else.  Raven because she is a sweetheart like Jade and one crazy, of course.  Corinne will be very popular with the guys who are just looking to hook up.  Chase, Robby and Luke? zzzzzzzzzzzz

I think there are many more men who come on bachette who are looking for a perk.  

Edited January 21, 2017 by wings707

[truthaboutluv]

I will say this, Vanessa and Rachel, out of the F4 are the two who have most gone back to their life as the season is airing. Unlike someone like Raven who already had her Team Raven shirts and shilling going before they even announced the cast, both Vanessa and Rachel have gone back to focusing on their family, friends and jobs. 

It's all subjective but I actually think from what we've seen so far, Vanessa is completely in the bubble and wanting to be Mrs. Nick Viall. And while I am the furthest thing from a "right reasons" watcher of this show because come on, with how most of these relationships have gone can you blame me, call me a fool because I believed what I saw between those two people last night.

Yes, maybe like so many others it was being caught up in the bubble and it doesn't survive after the show but I didn't get any sense that Vanessa was just there angling for the next Bachelorette and instead I truly felt like she was genuinely smitten by Nick.

Edited January 18, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[gator12]

I'm waiting to see what makes Vanessa a mini-villain and why she doesn't seem to be like by the women

[truthaboutluv]

According to RS, it starts with Danielle L., who Vanessa apparently accuses of being fake to the other women and Nick. And then later, I think when they're down to six, she and Rachel get into it hardcore, so say RS, and all the women take Rachel's side. This apparently happens after the group date where Nick decides to keep all the women, when the plan was that the losing team in the day part of the date would have to leave.

Coincidentally, Vanessa was on the losing team. RS says he doesn't know what the fight was about, what sparked it, just that he knows the women were all on Rachel's side. And yes, many have noticed that Rachel is still not following her, even though she's following Rachel and Danielle L. only just recently started following her back after she'd been following her for a few weeks. That said, Vanessa hasn't been shunned and ignored by all the women, like some make it out to be. 

Danielle M. seems madly in love with her, Raven has posted positively under her images, even Corinne has left a few sweet comments and many of the other women who left earlier like Alexis, Jasmine, etc. have commented on her posts with sweet comments. It definitely seems like if there is any post filming rift, it's between her and Rachel. 

Edited January 18, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[peachmangosteen]

I didn't know about all this Vanessa drama that's coming. I'm so excited!

13 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Yes, maybe like so many others it was being caught up in the bubble and it doesn't survive after the show but I didn't get any sense that Vanessa was just there angling for the next Bachelorette and instead I truly felt like she was genuinely smitten by Nick.

I definitely don't get the sense that Vanessa is angling for The Bachelorette. I think she seems equal parts smitten by Nick and still realistic and mature about the whole process. I've done a completely 180 on her since the first ep when I was getting weird vibes from her. 

Edited January 18, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[slowpoked]

3 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I definitely don't get the sense that Vanessa is angling for The Bachelorette. I think she seems equal parts smitten by Nick and still realistic and mature about the whole process. 

Me too. I really, really like her confrontation with Nick. So refreshing. Too often, contestants often tip-toes around the lead for fear of retribution. Vanessa was having none of that - "if that's your type, you might as well send me home."

Ever since The Bachelor has grown into this world of The Bachelor Nation, BIP and Instagram promotion activities, I always side-eye anyone who joins the show, even if it's someone as seemingly sensible as Rachel or Vanessa. I mean, they seem to be mature, successful, and of course, beautiful women, who I would think would have no problems getting dates in the real world and off TV. But maybe some still really believe in the concept, and hey, if some fringe benefits come along the way, then why not. Wouldn't hurt anyone. 

I only watched from Brad Womack's Season 2.0, and the only contestant I'm remembering who seemed to have vanished off the Earth - heh, The Bachelor Nation - is Chantal O'Brien. I was excited about her being the B'ette. But not only did she turn it down, she stayed away from the spotlight entirely.

Edited January 18, 2017 by slowpoked

[truthaboutluv]

Jef, who Emily picked has also vanished completely from the franchise. 

[gator12]

I remember loving Chantal. She's on instagram but its private, good for her she can still used social media without shilling products like others on Bachelornation do. Though selfishly I wish her instagram was open to the public

[chocolatine]

42 minutes ago, gator12 said:

I remember loving Chantal. She's on instagram but its private, good for her she can still used social media without shilling products like others on Bachelornation do. Though selfishly I wish her instagram was open to the public

Chantal was already independently wealthy by the time she appeared on the show (she's the daughter of a former Seattle Seahawks player who owns many car dealerships in the area), so I'm sure the Instagram shilling doesn't hold any allure for her.

[gator12]

3 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Chantal was already independently wealthy by the time she appeared on the show (she's the daughter of a former Seattle Seahawks player who owns many car dealerships in the area), so I'm sure the Instagram shilling doesn't hold any allure for her.

When has that ever stop rich people from shilling? lol

[CindyBee]

 I'm going to bail on the rest of the season as I'm finding Nick's journey not for me as I really can't stand him.  

So I'll be back for Rachel/Raven/Whomever's bachelorette season come May.  Well before that as I'm sure I'll follow along the spoilers as they happen during filming.

[dom16]

8 minutes ago, CindyBee said:

 I'm going to bail on the rest of the season as I'm finding Nick's journey not for me as I really can't stand him.  

So I'll be back for Rachel/Raven/Whomever's bachelorette season come May.  Well before that as I'm sure I'll follow along the spoilers as they happen during filming.

Same here. He's even worse than I thought.

[hnygrl]

He is a little man-slut isn't he? I can't see how any woman worth her salt could ever take such a man-slut seriously. You'd always always wonder...I mostly tune in and then turn the sound off for awhile before changing channels completely because it's hard to take a bunch of fresh out of teen-hood-children mooning over a man-slut. A well known, unapologetic man-slut at that. I think the kids today would call Nick a "fuck boy?"

[thehepburn]

I have yet to watch a single minute of this season. First time I am not watching in real time since the Stork season and I was out of the country at the time. Nick is just that speshul, ain't he?

[peachmangosteen]

On the other hand, this is the first time I am fully watching since Brad's first season.

Edited January 19, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[Padma]

Nick's my favorite bachelor in a long, long time. I think he's genuinely nice, a bit shy, and has found out that being on television (esp your own show) makes it easier to makeout, etc. so why not? I don't actually think there's anything wrong with it (even though I hated Bob Guiney for doing the same, lol).

I loved how sweet he was in the Vomit Comet--how many dates would be so caring when you're throwing up? That is certainly not the "fantasy" that this show usually goes for and he met the challenge nicely. So did Vanessa, keeping her poise in a hugely embarrassing moment (it's bad enough to throw up in public. But in public and on television? Oh no.)

Mainly, I appreciate that Nick can hold a conversation with these women that goes beyond what we've seen of late, "You're amazing", "So how are you feeling about me?" etc.  He has a vocabulary.  He pays attention to what they say (Ben and Chris always seemed like their eyes glazed over until they could move in for a kiss or until the conversation came back to them.)  I think he and Vanessa both seem like nice people so I hope they at least get a serious real life relationship out of this. (I always think that's a "success" from the show, not necessarily marriage).

I loved that Vanessa called him out just like you would do IRL if you were trying to see if there was something to it with this guy. They talk about real things rather than the usual non-conversations. I think Nick is good at that, too, and appreciates being able to trust someone and be open. I like that, too.

As for Corinne, or anyone else who's on here just to get "famous" and get to go on BIP, who can blame them? Also, if someone reads about how rich Kaitlyn and Shawn and Andi and Josh got from social media marketing thanks to the show (was it JoJo too?) that would be a good reason too.  

[truthaboutluv]

I still have yet to see what makes Nick such a man slut. The producers are certainly selling the notion that Nick is this overly sexual Bachelor, hence a character like Corinne this season. It's like once he dared to lift the veil off the farce that yeah, these people have sex in the fantasy suite on Andi's ATFR and then the pre-FS sex with Kaitlyn, suddenly Nick became this guy who only thinks with his dick and I call bullshit on that. 

Again, the man had a 7 year relationship, then was engaged to someone else long before showing up on  Andi's season. In other words, he's been in committed relationships. And with both Andi and Kaitlyn, yes he slept with them and he also was ready to propose to them but they turned him down. And while Nick and Andi had amazing chemistry, their relationship wasn't just built on sex and passion (that was more her and Josh to be honest). That was definitely more the case with him and Kaitlyn but I never understood the flack Nick got for that situation with Kaitlyn because I saw that episode and Kaitlyn knew exactly was she was doing and was the aggressor in my opinion in initiating what happened between her and Nick. 

And I certainly didn't see this over the top sexual behavior in Paradise. Hell he seemed bored most of the time more than anything else. He shared some barely passionate kisses with Leah and Amanda and then he and Jen had decent chemistry. But it's like the narrative became Nick is the horndog so we got casting of someone like Corinne and getting a hookup he had months before to come onto the show. Because it all plays into the narrative that Nick is just this big, huge, giant man slut. 

Like I said in the episode thread, I don't think Nick is making out any more than other leads. And for all the he's a manwhore, he's totally there to bang these hot chicks, the spoilers, if correct, show that many were wrong in assuming people like Danielle L. was a guarantee for the FS. I've already seen so many comments online from people unspoiled, "oh you know she's making FS so he can hook up with her with those giant fake boobs". And RS confirmed that the preview is a fake out and he doesn't have sex with Corinne when she comes to his room. And of course he dumps her at F4 before FS dates. 

I'm not saying Nick has been a perfect Bachelor so far. I do think he hasn't helped himself with some of the antics with Corinne (though I'm sure her making it all the way to F4 was partly producer influenced) but I just think all the man whore, slut, just there to bang all the chicks comments he's gotten so far is a little exaggerated, in my opinion. And just for the record, my issue with people like Bob and Ben F. seasons wasn't about their constant makeouts, it was simply that I found them hideously unattractive. 

Edited January 19, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[chocolatine]

I don't think Nick is a "villain" or a "slut", but I do find him smarmy and insincere and not very attractive. And while it's nice that he wasn't put off by Vanessa's vomiting, I don't think that's an indicator that he's some knight in shining armor. Some people simply have a higher tolerance for vomiting than others.

Edited January 20, 2017 by chocolatine

[truthaboutluv]

I don't think anyone thought Nick was some knight in shining armor for how he acted when Vanessa got sick. I think it just convinced most people that he's likely going to pick her and he clearly has genuine feelings for her. Again, they very likely may not last after the show like many other pairings before but it's clear there was some real magic between the two of them that to this point he hasn't had with any of the other women. To your point, Nick when with Vanessa was the first time in my opinion that there wasn't any smarm or insincerity. He truly looked at her and acted like a guy who is completely into a woman, in my opinion. 

[thehepburn]

I'm pretty sure that someone has kept count of the kiss counter thru the years so arguing that Nick is kissing less than other leads is probably moot. It's all a matter of record.

[truthaboutluv]

I don't think Nick is kissing less than other leads. I just don't think he's doing it any more than many others have. Yes, some didn't do it as much and some, like Farmer Chris for example, made out with the women plenty.

[peachmangosteen]

15 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

And just for the record, my issue with people like Bob and Ben F. seasons wasn't about their constant makeouts, it was simply that I found them hideously unattractive. 

LMAO!

[Nowhere]

Why does the cover of Us magazine describe Nick as sex-crazed? Just because he's had sex with Andi and Kaitlyn (two women he was in love with) and had a one night stand with Liz, doesn't make him sex-crazed. Seems pretty normal to me. So why label him? I don't get it.

[Canada]

Because sad, repressed people don't like it when others are having sex.  These are the same people who lambasted Kaitlyn for being a sexual woman and called her all sorts of names.  People are basically jerks.

[thehepburn]

1 hour ago, Nowhere said:

Why does the cover of Us magazine describe Nick as sex-crazed? Just because he's had sex with Andi and Kaitlyn (two women he was in love with) and had a one night stand with Liz, doesn't make him sex-crazed. Seems pretty normal to me. So why label him? I don't get it.

Somehow I got the feeling that he musta slept with Jen Saviano too.

And of course, grabbing bare boobs in front of a herd of women you are dating too is the height of normal.

Edited January 21, 2017 by thehepburn

[Canada]

The entire concept of this show is abnormal.  Nothing on it can be considered normal.

[thehepburn]

Yes but you can do like Ben Higgins and maybe not grabs the boobs. Some jerk is gonna call you" sex-crazed" when you do that.

[truthaboutluv]

20 minutes ago, thehepburn said:

Yes but you can do like Ben Higgins and maybe not grabs the boobs. Some jerk is gonna call you" sex-crazed" when you do that.

Yeah he didn't grab boobs but he just told two women he loved them and likely slept with them both before proposing to one and declaring her the great love of his life. 

Quote

The entire concept of this show is abnormal.  Nothing on it can be considered normal.

And basically. The entire premise of this franchise is essentially icky and insulting if you think about it. So yeah, people have their favorites and think their favorite is less objectionable than someone else but in truth the whole show is weird. 

[thehepburn]

5 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Yeah he didn't grab boobs but he just told two women he loved them and likely slept with them both before proposing to one and declaring her the great love of his life. 

 

 

Must be me but being carried away at age 26 on some TV show >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>being carried away at age 36 on the same show.

[truthaboutluv]

I didn't say anything about being carried away. I never used that as an excuse for Nick's actions with Corinne. My point is simply to agree with Canada that frankly the whole franchise is weird and yeah, kind of icky no matter how much is spun for this lead versus that one or that contestant versus that one.

Yeah Nick's hands were on Corinne's boobs and Ben had a giant boner while making out with JoJo for their F2 date, before telling her he loved her but then later proposing to Lauren. And even the OG couple, Trista and Ryan, word is Trista did sleep with Charlie. It's just that again, back then, it was that thing people didn't talk about.

I mean it's great that some genuine relationships and love stories have come out of the franchise but let's face it, the whole thing is kind of incestuous and weird. YMMV. 

Edited January 21, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[Nowhere]

3 hours ago, thehepburn said:

Somehow I got the feeling that he musta slept with Jen Saviano too.

And of course, grabbing bare boobs in front of a herd of women you are dating too is the height of normal.

So he's slept with 4 women that we know of, and the producer plant, Corinne basically begged for him to hold her boobs during a photo shoot so he did. I think he's a typical man whose sexual experiences have been talked about publicly, as opposed to the normal man who has these same sexual experiences but nobody notices because he's not famous. This show isn't normal dating. They encouraged Corinne to take her top off and then encouraged Nick to participate for good tv. I still don't see "sex-crazed" in any of this. 

Edited January 22, 2017 by Nowhere

[Bugs Meany]

5 hours ago, thehepburn said:

Somehow I got the feeling that he musta slept with Jen Saviano too.

I'm sure he did too; we just never got sworn affidavits, like we did with the other three :-/

[Canada]

It's a joke that people think Nick and Kaitlyn are sex-crazed.  They're not even close.  If that's their definition of sex-crazed, they must lead very sheltered lives.

Edited January 22, 2017 by Canada
Because Nick isn't Ben (thank god)

[Nowhere]

1 hour ago, Bugs Meany said:

I'm sure he did too; we just never got sworn affidavits, like we did with the other three :-/

And I'm sure several of the past bachelors have slept with few of the women of bachelor nation but haven't told anyone. Nick is very open about things that he maybe shouldn't be so open about. That's his downfall but I personally think it's also part of his charm. He's honest and real. The only thing I can't stand about him is Corinne. It doesn't seem like he should be messing with that little girl at his age. That still doesn't make him sex-crazed, however. But if the producers want to label him as such, what better way than to set him up to make an ass of himself? That jumpy house thing was so manipulated it was sad. Maybe since Vanessa told him off, he'll think a little.

[Meowwww]

The mumbling!!!  I can't handle Nick's mumbling.  I don't know what he says half the time!

[Mabinogia]

16 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

Yeah he didn't grab boobs but he just told two women he loved them and likely slept with them both before proposing to one and declaring her the great love of his life. 

To me that's worse than grabbing some chick's boobs because she literally took your hands and placed them on her boobs. At this point he hasn't told anyone he loves them so they are all his "girlfriends"

[thehepburn]

11 hours ago, Nowhere said:

 Maybe since Vanessa told him off, he'll think a little.

I believe he has been thinking a LOT. With his Little Nick, that is. But that doesnt make him "sex crazed". Nah!

[kalibean]

On 10/14/2016 at 10:43 AM, CindyBee said:

Like being a low rent Playboy Playmate.   

RE Chive Girls - I died laughing because all I knew of Chive is that they helped my friend get a handicapable van and other such things for her special needs daughter. I was not expecting the T&A. Greatness. 

[Canada]

This is too funny... I think Corrine is screwing with people

[Bugs Meany]

On 1/25/2017 at 0:31 PM, Canada said:

This is too funny... I think Corrine is screwing with people

The only question was whose ring, and it turned out to be Claudia Oshry's.

In my daydreams, the masses would know the winner is not allowed to wear her ring. It might even be confiscated until AtFR but I'm not sure about that part.

[Nowhere]

I don't see how in the hell Raven makes it past Rachel in this competition. Nick doesn't strike me as the "Beer, Bible, and football" type. Which incidentally makes me think Raven is loud, bloated, and farty when on her own turf. I'm sure she can pull off a mean keg stand too. Because she's just that cool. Not. 

[chocolatine]

35 minutes ago, Nowhere said:

I don't see how in the hell Raven makes it past Rachel in this competition. Nick doesn't strike me as the "Beer, Bible, and football" type. Which incidentally makes me think Raven is loud, bloated, and farty when on her own turf. I'm sure she can pull off a mean keg stand too. Because she's just that cool. Not. 

Well, he did propose to Kaitlyn ...

[Nowhere]

9 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Well, he did propose to Kaitlyn ...

Good point.

[cranky cornbread]

6 hours ago, Nowhere said:

I don't see how in the hell Raven makes it past Rachel in this competition. Nick doesn't strike me as the "Beer, Bible, and football" type. Which incidentally makes me think Raven is loud, bloated, and farty when on her own turf. I'm sure she can pull off a mean keg stand too. Because she's just that cool. Not. 

Raven "makes it past Rachel" because Nick wanted Vanessa; it didn't matter to him who was F2 or F3.  So he made Rachel F3 b/c production wanted her for Bachelorette. 

Why? Because: A) she's *great* & very well-liked  among production/the other girls; and B) they've been under pressure to produce the first Bachelorette "of color" & Rachel has everything they could hope to find.

FYI: Once "The Bachelorette" found its groove, the selection of the  next season's lead started following a very predictable pattern: Virtually always F3; *maybe* F4 in a pinch.  F2 is almost never chosen b/c the PTB think it'll look bad if the girl--who is supposedly still "devastated" by her painful (and JUST-aired!) rejection--then turns on a dime & is ready to start "finding love" with 25 new men just 2 weeks later!  

Jojo was the rare exception to this rule,  btw. (Probably b/c Caila was so BLAH  & b/c Jojo was killing it social media numbers.)  This also explains why she took it SO easy on Ben on ATFR  re: the "I love you" stuff!   If she'd seemed too hung up on it/him, it might've seemed like she wasn't "really" ready to find love again so soon!  (All such laughable B.S.) 

Disclaimer: I am NOT saying that Rachel *will* be the next Bachelorette, just that they're angling for it. That decision can change up til the very last minute. Plus there's a decent chance that Rachel will actually turn down the offer.  We'll see!

Edited January 31, 2017 by cranky cornbread
Clarity

[hnygrl]

I read somewhere on my Google newsfeed on my phone that Nick has given Production Carte Blanche with the roses. "Rumor" has it that he couldn't care less. He lets production tell him who to keep, who to send home, etc. 

I guess he's into the ones he's into and the rest can go hang. Reckon that's why Corinne sticks around so long when normally the 2 on 1 date is when he'd get rid of her.

I kinda believe it. This season is such a set-up. So freaking staged and fake I kinda believe it.

One thing's for sure, at this rate they're quickly curing me of my all things Bachelor obsession. Corinne AND Chad? On the same Show? (BiP)

Um...I'll pass.

[kingshearte]

18 hours ago, hnygrl said:

I read somewhere on my Google newsfeed on my phone that Nick has given Production Carte Blanche with the roses. "Rumor" has it that he couldn't care less. He lets production tell him who to keep, who to send home, etc. 

I guess he's into the ones he's into and the rest can go hang. Reckon that's why Corinne sticks around so long when normally the 2 on 1 date is when he'd get rid of her.

I kinda believe it. This season is such a set-up. So freaking staged and fake I kinda believe it.

One thing's for sure, at this rate they're quickly curing me of my all things Bachelor obsession. Corinne AND Chad? On the same Show? (BiP)

Um...I'll pass.

I'd believe that of pretty much every season. I think that in almost all cases, left to their own devices, the lead could narrow it down on Night 1 to a few (six, tops) who were legitimate contenders, and the rest are 100% cannon fodder, no matter how hard they try to convince us otherwise. That doesn't even mean that a lead couldn't have chemistry with more than those few, or that they might even genuinely like some of them. But realistically, if you walk into a group of people of your preferred gender, you're not going to be equally into all of them. Odds are good that you're very quickly going to isolate two or three that you're actually interested in, and there's no reason it should be different for the leads on this show. Identify your finalists early, and spend the remaining time you have with them confirming or refuting your hypothesis, while pretending for the cameras that you might just as easily fall for any of the entire field.

[Zung Li]

I could buy the forced to keep her excuse for the first few episodes- but Nick keeps Corinne all the way through hometown dates. If ever a season needed a distraction it was JoJo's- yet Chad only made it through episode 4. Sorry but I'm holding Nick responsible for subjecting me to Corinne.

[Mabinogia]

19 minutes ago, mingming said:

but Nick keeps Corinne all the way through hometown dates

That's obviously so we can all meet Nanny Rachel. lol

[slowpoked]

2 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

That's obviously so we can all meet Nanny Rachel. lol

I would love for Nick to give Nanny Racquel a rose instead of Corinne.