S06.E09: Battle Of The Bastards

[Ambrosefolly]

One of the arrows he wasn't even looking at Rickon. I think he was playing with Rickon as well as Jon.

[KaleyFirefly]

On 6/20/2016 at 3:58 PM, RCharter said:

I didn't, but I don't think it much changes the situation.  He has an army to back him up.  She maybe has whoever is left from Lady Bear's house and Winterfell. The Sansa cutesy/clueless act would be a mis-step for her, and it doesn't particularly mean that she didn't promise him anything, it just means that she is trying to backtrack.  However, I would suppose it mean she didn't sign anything.  She better hope it doesn't mean that LF makes a play for Winterfell on behalf of Robin (who he can pretty much convince of anything).

I hope to not see Sansa deploy the "wait, you wanted what?" routine, because I think that would be a step back for her character.  

If Littlefinger tries his "you owe me" routine, Sansa can just say "Excuse me? You sold me off to marry a psychopath sadist for your own purposes. We're even now. I don't owe you sh*t."

[TaurusRose]

19 hours ago, GrailKing said:

Sansa's been to hell and back, and she needs nothing to redeem for.

Ned confronted Cersei, Ned spilled his plans to her, LF pointed out his spies,Cersei's spies and Vary's little birds and he still trusted LF and played the game poorly, that's why he lost his head, not Sansa,not Arya, but NED.

The only one who pleaded for him was Sansa; and the boy King lied to her.

Who said anything about Sansa's redemption? What does Sansa pleading for Ned's life have to do with anything? I said Sansa hasn't suffered any more than any of the other Starks.  And IMO, she absolutely has not.  I said that unlike other members of her family she still has her life, so, IMO, she is way ahead of the game.  I guess some people consider her time with Ramsay to hell and back.  I would only entertain thinking that if she found herself pregnant by him.  But as long as she remains alive she has a chance for happiness.  Ned, Catelyn, Rob and Rickon have been deprived of that; as someone who cherishes life, I consider an untimely death the worst thing ever.  BTW, it almost sounds like you're blaming Ned for his death when the blame falls squarely on all those you named, some more than others.

[marcee]

35 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

Lol Wun Wun should have uprooted 1 of the trees on the background and used that as a weapon.  Better yet, they should have prepared a stack of logs for Wun Wun to toss to Ramsay's army.  ;)

This is the one and only thing that bugged me about this episode. When the shielded army was closing in, I just wanted Wun Wun to scoop away a section and allow Jon's army to get through and escape/attack. I mean, plot. I get it. But still. He's a giant. Kick a hole through the line! Step on them! That's the point of having a giant, right? That part simply didn't make sense, but I'll take what I can get and I did get a heck of a lot... for once and finally.

[GrailKing]

22 minutes ago, taurusrose said:

Who said anything about Sansa's redemption? What does Sansa pleading for Ned's life have to do with anything? I said Sansa hasn't suffered any more than any of the other Starks.  And IMO, she absolutely has not.  I said that unlike other members of her family she still has her life, so, IMO, she is way ahead of the game.  I guess some people consider her time with Ramsay to hell and back.  I would only entertain thinking that if she found herself pregnant by him.  But as long as she remains alive she has a chance for happiness.  Ned, Catelyn, Rob and Rickon have been deprived of that; as someone who cherishes life, I consider an untimely death the worst thing ever.  BTW, it almost sounds like you're blaming Ned for his death when the blame falls squarely on all those you named, some more than others.

Well your opinion, have at it.

Arya's alive ( her stabbing was bad, but she made a mistake ), Jon's alive,Bran's alive, Rickon was alive, Ned,Cat and Robb got quick death's both Ned and Robb screwed up and Cat was in the wrong place at the wrong time, none of them were tortured or beaten, forced into marriages with a house killing their family, almost ganged rape and marriage raped, and none of them have a wife killer hanging over them.

And none of those are on her; each Stark did something foolish to get them killed except Rickon and yes Ned is responsible for getting himself killed.

You antagonized someone you know hates you before you get your family out, really?

Edited June 21, 2016 by GrailKing

[izabella]

28 minutes ago, KaleyFirefly said:

If Littlefinger tries his "you owe me" routine, Sansa can just say "Excuse me? You sold me off to marry a psychopath sadist for your own purposes. We're even now. I don't owe you sh*t."

She can say that, but she doesn't have an army to back her up.  Littlefinger, on the other hand, has his army right there, and could take her and Winterfell prisoner with a word.

I'm hoping there's more behind Sansa, but right now, she's got a few Wildlings who didn't die in battle, and Jon.  Ok, and Lady Bear, though we didn't see her at Winterfell.

Edited June 21, 2016 by izabella

[RCharter]

31 minutes ago, KaleyFirefly said:

If Littlefinger tries his "you owe me" routine, Sansa can just say "Excuse me? You sold me off to marry a psychopath sadist for your own purposes. We're even now. I don't owe you sh*t."

She can say that, and he can say...."you know what Sansa, thats cool, I'm just gonna go ahead and take Winterfell now with my giant army.  Smell 'ya later!"

Edited June 21, 2016 by RCharter

[KaleyFirefly]

23 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

ITA! I love Littlefinger and his deviousness, too. It doesn't hurt that I've had a crush on Aiden G. since "The Wire."

OMG me too! I loved him in "The Wire."

[RCharter]

5 minutes ago, izabella said:

She can say that, but she doesn't have an army to back her up.  Littlefinger, on the other hand, has his army right there, and could take her and Winterfell prisoner with a word.

I'm hoping there's more behind Sansa, but right now, she's got a few Wildlings who didn't die in battle, and Jon.  Ok, and Lady Bear, though we didn't see her at Winterfell.

Sansa had better not try to tangle up my adorable little Lady Bear in any more of her shenanigans!

Frankly, I think the wildlings are a big question mark at this point.  They fought for Jon, and they fought to keep Ramsay from coming after them.  Are they really going to want to fight to keep Sansa from marrying Littlefinger?  They probably don't even see that as a problem they understand.

[DarkRaichu]

20 minutes ago, marcee said:

This is the one and only thing that bugged me about this episode. When the shielded army was closing in, I just wanted Wun Wun to scoop away a section and allow Jon's army to get through and escape/attack. I mean, plot. I get it. But still. He's a giant. Kick a hole through the line! Step on them! That's the point of having a giant, right? That part simply didn't make sense, but I'll take what I can get and I did get a heck of a lot... for once and finally.

IIRC the back to back shield+spear formations were 3 rows deep and very tight. I believe Wun Wun tried to remove the 1st row but the spears from 2nd row pushed him back.  Also I am going to fanwank at this point of the battle he was too tired to go berserk. 

Edited June 21, 2016 by DarkRaichu

[dramachick]

1 hour ago, izabella said:

To the victor, go the spoils.  Just ask the Tully soldiers who are now under the Lannister/Frey thumb.

The Starks would now have the Bolton lands and soldiers, if any are left.  Or maybe that's really the Vale, since it was the Vale army that defeated Bolton.

You were right the first time. The Vale/Robin Arryn army was part of Jon's force, and the Starks are restored to their rightful home and status.  If Arryn wanted Bolton assets, he would have attacked and taken Winterfell on his own and then fought Jon.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Game Of Thrones Delivers Its Big Face-Off, Eye-Off, Nose-Off, And Spleen-Off

Bottom line: If you have a body part you care about, stay away from Winterfell this week.

[TaurusRose]

58 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Well your opinion, have at it.

Arya's alive ( her stabbing was bad, but she made a mistake ), Jon's alive,Bran's alive, Rickon was alive, Ned,Cat and Robb got quick death's both Ned and Robb screwed up and Cat was in the wrong place at the wrong time, none of them were tortured or beaten, forced into marriages with a house killing their family, almost ganged rape and marriage raped, and none of them have a wife killer hanging over them.

And none of those are on her; each Stark did something foolish to get them killed except Rickon and yes Ned is responsible for getting himself killed.

You antagonized someone you know hates you before you get your family out, really?

I disagree with you.  But as you said to me, your opinion, have at it.  Still, if you wish to list the woes of Sansa, I'll play.  Ayra's been beaten, hunted, starved, and dragged all over the place against her will.  She was put in the position where she had to actually kill someone while still a child. Bran was pushed from a tower and paralyzed. Rickon was deprived of his parents and his home, then forced to run and hide all of his short life.  Jon has been beaten, stabbed [to death], shot full of arrows, and deprived of his true parentage, and let's not forget the miserable treatment (non-physical abuse) he endured from his father's wife and oldest daughter [Sansa]. One more thing.  Of course, we'll never know, but it is conceivable that had Sansa taken Tyrion up on his offer to send her back to Winterfell in the midst of the Joffrey mess, none of these other misfortunes would have befallen her.  You can try to justify the deaths of the others any way you want, but your argument doesn't hold any weight with me or prove that they suffered less than Sansa, so, I'm done.

Edited June 21, 2016 by taurusrose

[MerelyAFan]

I don't know if it was sloppy writing or we're supposed to think Tyrion has a selective memory, but having rewatched the season 1 scene between him and Theon, he's a much bigger asshole to Greyjoy than vice-versa. Heck Theon only calls him an Imp after Lannister straight up belittles him for really no reason. Maybe there's some other conversation we are to infer they had, however it still struck me as odd.

[RCharter]

31 minutes ago, dramachick said:

You were right the first time. The Vale/Robin Arryn army was part of Jon's force, and the Starks are restored to their rightful home and status.  If Arryn wanted Bolton assets, he would have attacked and taken Winterfell on his own and then fought Jon.

Arryn wants whatever LF tells him he wants.

[paigow]

15 minutes ago, RCharter said:

Arryn wants whatever LF tells him he wants.

Couldn't resist...

Yo, I'll tell you what I want, what I really really want, 
So tell me what you want, what you really really want 

[dramachick]

28 minutes ago, izabella said:

She can say that, but she doesn't have an army to back her up.  Littlefinger, on the other hand, has his army right there, and could take her and Winterfell prisoner with a word.

I'm hoping there's more behind Sansa, but right now, she's got a few Wildlings who didn't die in battle, and Jon.  Ok, and Lady Bear, though we didn't see her at Winterfell.

Others have also said that about Littlefinger and taking Winterfell by force.  Of course, he would have to kill Jon to take Sansa.  But even if he did kill Jon and take Sansa by force, what does he do afterwards?  Is he going to rape Sansa to force an heir out of her? I think she would die or kill him before that happens to her again.

Are the Arryn forces going to defend Winterfell from the northerners so Littlefinger can hold it?  Who protects the Vale?

Are the northern lords going to bow down to Littlefinger?  Umber wouldn't bend the knee to psychopath Ramsey. A man like Littlefinger is nothing to them.

Littlefinger has schemed about all this stuff, but reality hasn't always gone his way.  He thought Stannis would take Winterfell, but the Starks have it back, which makes a difference. Lord Royce knew Ned, and probably some of the other lords from the Vale did too considering that Ned was Jon Arryn's ward.

We've seen examples in this show where bannerman don't blindly follow their liege lord but have to be convinced and cajoled, etc.  I don't see why Littlefinger's would always meekly follow him without argument. He did threaten Lord Royce that one time when Royce disagreed with him, but human nature and the character of a highly born nobleman in this world is such that Royce would make sure not to be caught wrong-footed again when going against Littlefinger, whom he doesn't like or respect. Littlefinger is just a man.

[RCharter]

Just now, paigow said:

Couldn't resist...

Yo, I'll tell you what I want, what I really really want, 
So tell me what you want, what you really really want 

LMFAO.  I do love me some Spice Girls!

[candall]

On ‎6‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 4:16 AM, Cynna said:

 I recently read an interview with Rheon where he talked about being messed up from playing Ramsey. Rheon's a poet/singer and had originally been in the running to play Jon, and seemed to be struggling emotionally/spiritually with many of the scenes he had. A good guy, and great actor to make us all seeth at the sight of him!

On the very same Sunday night as this episode of GoT, the Ramsay actor was in the series finale of the British sitcom, Vicious, where he was a regular along with the likes of Derek Jacobi and Ian McKellen.  His end story was that he pulled his life together, took leave of the little bunch of seniors who loved him and went off to college in the US.  Not a dry eye in the house.

This young man has some serious range!

 

On ‎6‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 1:21 PM, annsterg said:

I would kill all those hounds after Ramsay's death. They are monsters.

Whoa there!  I'm surrounded by a pack of cupcakes who respect and adore me, but if I fell comatose on this couch and lasted seven days beyond when their feeders ran dry, I don't have any delusions they'd choose death by starvation before someone started nibbling my toes.

(That's why I phone-a-friend on Tuesdays and Fridays.)

*****************************

 

Ramsay made a really bad decision putting that arrow through Wun-Wun's eye instead of Jon's.  He just couldn't resist grabbing one more chance to torture his target with some mental anguish before he finished him.  Oops. 

[izabella]

9 minutes ago, dramachick said:

Others have also said that about Littlefinger and taking Winterfell by force.  Of course, he would have to kill Jon to take Sansa.  But even if he did kill Jon and take Sansa by force, what does he do afterwards?  Is he going to rape Sansa to force an heir out of her? I think she would die or kill him before that happens to her again.

He can lock her and Jon up, or kill Jon and Sansa for that matter.  It' really doesn't matter whether she marries him or not.  It didn't much matter that Edmure married Miss Frey - he was locked up for what?  Two years?  And would still be there if they weren't trying to use him as a prisoner pawn to get Riverrun.   Now he is prisoner at Riverrun, just like Sansa could be at Winterfell, just like Rickon was Ramsey's prisoner.

Quote

Are the Arryn forces going to defend Winterfell from the northerners so Littlefinger can hold it?  Who protects the Vale?

Defend Winterfell from whom?  No one is interested in Winterfell but Littlefinger and the Starks.

Quote

Are the northern lords going to bow down to Littlefinger?  Umber wouldn't bend the knee to psychopath Ramsey. A man like Littlefinger is nothing to them.

What Northern Lords?  Greatjohn Umber is dead, Littlejohn Umber was aligned with Ramsey and is also dead.  Karkstark was aligned with Ramsey and his trroops were among the first or second wave and are dead or mostly dead.  Glover is no buddy of the Starks,as he said.  Lady Bear has few, if any soldiers.  The Freys are aligned with Lannisters, and they hold Riverrun, so what houses are going to want or be able to fight Littlefinger/Arryn for Winterfell?

Quote

Littlefinger has schemed about all this stuff, but reality hasn't always gone his way.  He thought Stannis would take Winterfell, but the Starks have it back, which makes a difference. Lord Royce knew Ned, and probably some of the other lords from the Vale did too considering that Ned was Jon Arryn's ward.

And yet, Littlefinger is at Winterfell, has Sansa in his grasp, with a whole bunch of armed soldiers and everyone else is dead.  Seems his plan worked just fine.  He didn't care who it was that wore out the Bolton army - Stannis or Wildlings (still dead anyway); his plan was to come in and destroy the Boltons after they were weakened. And his plan worked perfectly.  Just because he didn't "conquer" Sansa, Jon and the Wildlings, doesn't mean he can't or won't.

Quote

We've seen examples in this show where bannerman don't blindly follow their liege lord but have to be convinced and cajoled, etc.  I don't see why Littlefinger's would always meekly follow him without argument. He did threaten Lord Royce that one time when Royce disagreed with him, but human nature and the character of a highly born nobleman in this world is such that Royce would make sure not to be caught wrong-footed again when going against Littlefinger, whom he doesn't like or respect. Littlefinger is just a man.

Littlefinger is just a man who has managed to outlast all his enemies, take over the Ayrie and Lord Robyn, and now has a mass of soldiers that could take Winterfell in the blink of an eye.

Edited June 21, 2016 by izabella

[RCharter]

11 minutes ago, dramachick said:

Others have also said that about Littlefinger and taking Winterfell by force.  Of course, he would have to kill Jon to take Sansa.  But even if he did kill Jon and take Sansa by force, what does he do afterwards?  Is he going to rape Sansa to force an heir out of her? I think she would die or kill him before that happens to her again.

Are the Arryn forces going to defend Winterfell from the northerners so Littlefinger can hold it?  Who protects the Vale?

Are the northern lords going to bow down to Littlefinger?  Umber wouldn't bend the knee to psychopath Ramsey. A man like Littlefinger is nothing to them.

Littlefinger has schemed about all this stuff, but reality hasn't always gone his way.  He thought Stannis would take Winterfell, but the Starks have it back, which makes a difference. Lord Royce knew Ned, and probably some of the other lords from the Vale did too considering that Ned was Jon Arryn's ward.

We've seen examples in this show where bannerman don't blindly follow their liege lord but have to be convinced and cajoled, etc.  I don't see why Littlefinger's would always meekly follow him without argument. He did threaten Lord Royce that one time when Royce disagreed with him, but human nature and the character of a highly born nobleman in this world is such that Royce would make sure not to be caught wrong-footed again when going against Littlefinger, whom he doesn't like or respect. Littlefinger is just a man.

He takes Winterfell and rules there as Lord Arryn's proxy.  If Sansa wants to be his wife...so be it, if not....thats cool too.

He would have to make constant visits to the Vale to make sure that he maintains his control over Robyn.  But thats just one option he has.

He can also marry someone else from a Northern House and get an heir out of his new wife.  I think he could align with one of the larger Northern houses through marriage.

What other northerners are going to fight for Winterfell if they know that there is an army that LF can call on to defend it if they try to take it?  Sansa didn't have much support from the Northern houses to fight Ramsay, a homicidal maniac.  And LF is sly enough to hide his assholery, and has access to the army that beat Ramsay.

Umber didn't have to bend the knee to Ramsay, but still supported him and didn't interfere with his claim to Winterfell.  Umber may have his pride, but he was also "smart" enough to side with the more powerful team.  To me, that says that pragmatism may be more of a consideration than loyalty for some of the houses, at this point.  

I still think there are houses of the North that remember, and are open to the Starks, but Sansa has a lot of work to do to get that level of loyalty and support back.

But we've seen how Robyn responds to LF, and it's not the same way Lady Bear does.  Lady Bear actually cares about ruling her house, Robyn wants to play, he doesn't want to rule, and he trusts LF and is happy to put the decisions into his hands.  Especially since he has developed such an attachment to him and seems to see him as his one true ally.  I think Royce is smart enough to try to roll with the punches as long as he isn't in the firing line.  He may hate LF, but he saw the power that LF has over Robyn.  And LF is cunning.  So unless Royce is being directly attacked, I don't think going up against LF is really worth his time.

Edited June 21, 2016 by RCharter

[paigow]

1 hour ago, Ambrosefolly said:

One of the arrows he wasn't even looking at Rickon. I think he was playing with Rickon as well as Jon.

My theory for the burning bodies on the field was to give Ramsey a wind and range indicator. Much like Blackfish used flags at the funeral, Ramsey compensated for prevailing winds and probably equally spaced the bodies so he could calculate distance and angles. 

[Ronin Jackson]

I just rewatched the episode, and once again have to hand it to the team at how brilliantly staged the entire battle scene was. There are several bravura cinematic moments throughout.

But the scene where Sansa begs Jon to hold off is especially strange when you know Sansa has something in mind and in fact had already taken action. Why did she not tell Jon when disclosing that would have gone a long way towards convincing him to hold off? More or less, it seems, the main reason for her not to say anything is to set up that moment when the troops she's gathered ride to the rescue just when all seems lost. Which amounts to a plot contrivance. At least it was for an effective moment but the earlier scene sure seems strange in hindsight. 

[dramachick]

Ramsey was boring to watch after a while. Littlefinger is boring to watch.  I know why he's written that way, but I hope they wrap up his story line next week.

Cersei is a character I love to hate-watch because she has setbacks along with her victories, and it's always interesting to see her bounce back.

[RCharter]

8 minutes ago, paigow said:

My theory for the burning bodies on the field was to give Ramsey a wind and range indicator. Much like Blackfish used flags at the funeral, Ramsey compensated for prevailing winds and probably equally spaced the bodies so he could calculate distance and angles. 

OMG, thats so interesting.  I had never thought of that, and it makes so much sense.  

[paigow]

32 minutes ago, RCharter said:

OMG, thats so interesting.  I had never thought of that, and it makes so much sense.  

I got this from "Kingdom of Heaven". Orlando Bloom used a similar trick - no burning bodies - but painted white rock markers at regular intervals away from the city walls so his catapult crews could adjust launch angles as the range was called out.

[Mabinogia]

I don't think Jon is weak so much as Jon has a weakness, his inability to sit by and watch a family member suffer, which Ramsey exploited. Ramsey had a weakness, his arrogant believe that he had this in the bag, which Sansa exploited. Sansa has a weakness, her desperation to get Winterfell back, which Littlefinger exploited. None of these people is weak. They are all just human with failings.

It is easy to say Jon made a mistake by running after Rickon. I'm sure in retrospect he would see that it was a mistake. It is also a mistake I am sure he would make again, even knowing how things would turn out because Jon simply cannot sit by and watch someone he loves being killed. It is just not in him to sit by and watch someone he loves die. He is noble in that way but also it makes him a terrible strategist.

I don't see Littlefinger using violent force to take Winterfell, even if he wanted it, which I don't know that he does. He wants the Iron Throne. He wants to get back down south. I don't see taking Winterfell by force being his way of getting that. He would alienate all the few remaining folks that fought to give Winterfell back to the Starks. The north remembers, blah blah. He needs them to adore him for saving the day and reseating House Stark, not taking it over by force. That's not Littlefingers style. He's more the "get the Bolton's to take over Winterfell so I can go and save it and be the big hero and then the north will be indebted to me and I can use them to get what I really want" type. He's manipulative, not physically forceful. I think he would rather be the puppeteer pulling the strings of the Lady of the North. (I'm sure I'm totally wrong, but that is how I would write him. Not as a conquering warrior but as a conniving snake who strikes and you don't even know he's done it until it's far too late and your head is being paraded out in front of your daughter by her sadistic betrothed. (Littlefinger really set almost all of this in motion and most of the people on the show have no clue just how involved he is. He's not going to charge in with an army and take over. He's going to pit Sansa and Jon against each other, fracture their growing bond with doubt and mistrust, then plant some little bug in someone's ear that will cause them to basically surrender or give him Winterfell, if that's what he wants)

[hks]

On 6/20/2016 at 3:48 PM, Hansey said:

I'm not ashamed to say that I absolutely love Littlefinger as a character. Oh yes, he's absolutely a (as someone else put it in a previous thread) lying liar who lies, and can't be trusted ever.  But I just love his clever, calculating mind.  You just can't tell what Baelish's end game *really* is, and I think that's awesome.  He probably deserves to die, but I would miss him on my screen. :(

ITA. I think he's a bad man, but he's a super clever man, and I find that so much fun to watch.  As for his end game - I don't think it's the Iron Throne, exactly. I think he wants all the power that COMES from it, but doesn't want to sit on it himself. Just like he is with Robin, he likes to be the one pulling the strings. Puppet mastering.  However, I also think he's transferred his creepy, unhealthy obsession of Catelyn to Sansa. It's not necessarily a "wild card", but I do think his actions have a motivation beyond simply having the most power. It's the one area where his motivations may not lead him to make the smartest decisions.  

19 hours ago, Timetoread said:

Running to get Rickon, who was alive and running to him, wasn't at all stupid. Deciding to charge Ramsey's entire army alone, on foot, with his dick and his sword in his hands was the height of stupidity. Doing this as the commander of his own army and scrapping the plans they made for a possibility of victory was just plain selfish and moronic.  His personal pain rendered the lives of his men irrelevant. This is not somebody who should be a leader.

This. I definitely don't judge him as stupid for trying to save Rickon.  It's what he did after Rickon was killed. He fell so hard into Ramsey's trap - every single person on that battlefield knew it. He fell into the exact trap they discussed just the day before. I'm a huge fan of Jon, but he shouldn't really be in command. (Which he has said 100 times himself). 

[paigow]

59 minutes ago, RCharter said:

I need to watch more movies.  But sadly....I just personally don't like Orlando Bloom....

Liam Neeson is his father...so maybe that will make it easier...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0320661/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast

This was 2005  - Look at all the GoT cast members

Edited June 22, 2016 by paigow

[Cynna]

3 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

One of the arrows he wasn't even looking at Rickon. I think he was playing with Rickon as well as Jon.

You're totally right - after rewatching I agree, he was playing at this and missing on purpose. Bastard!

3 hours ago, marcee said:

This is the one and only thing that bugged me about this episode. When the shielded army was closing in, I just wanted Wun Wun to scoop away a section and allow Jon's army to get through and escape/attack.

 

3 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

IIRC the back to back shield+spear formations were 3 rows deep and very tight. I believe Wun Wun tried to remove the 1st row but the spears from 2nd row pushed him back.

WunWun did remove a bunch; he pushed his way through the crowd of his own men, and then swept aside the enemy line with his arm as he was being pummeled by arrows and spears. They then held up super-long spears that were the length of Wun's height, and he was trying to swipe at them without being impaled. He did manage to pluck the odd one and rip their head off.  

1 hour ago, candall said:

Whoa there!  I'm surrounded by a pack of cupcakes who respect and adore me, but if I fell comatose on this couch and lasted seven days beyond when their feeders ran dry, I don't have any delusions they'd choose death by starvation before someone started nibbling my toes.

Glad to hear Rheon's doing other, happier work. :) As for your cupcakes, you're too optimistic. Many studies have been done on this, and dogs will generally wait around 45 minutes before eating their dead owners. Generally they start with the nose, lips, cheeks, and throat, not toes. Remember that next time you're sharing kissykisses with them. ;)

1 hour ago, paigow said:

My theory for the burning bodies on the field was to give Ramsey a wind and range indicator. Much like Blackfish used flags at the funeral, Ramsey compensated for prevailing winds and probably equally spaced the bodies so he could calculate distance and angles. 

This is brilliant, and totally makes sense - thanks for the info.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Cynna
clarity

[Morrigan2575]

12 minutes ago, paigow said:

Liam Neeson is his father...so maybe that will make it easier...

Oh dear, i thought you were talking about the actors... ?

[ulkis]

7 hours ago, DollEyes said:

Not me. I haven't cheered so much for a GOT character's demise since Joffrey.

Agreed. I was reading an article a little while ago that said something like "and there's no one who doesn't love-to-hate Ramsey, at least just a little." Don't love to hate the character at all, although admittedly I don't hate him passionately either - I didn't watch a lot of season 4 and 5 and I skipped most of his stuff in season 3. Or whenever it was he had Theon. I'm just glad he's gone already. 

[paigow]

2 minutes ago, Cynna said:

Many studies have been done on this, and dogs will generally wait around 45 minutes before eating their dead owners

How did they get volunteers? CraigsDeadList?

Got a dog? Maybe a few? Earn up to $2500 for participating in a scientific study of pet behaviour. Call Dr. Bolton today!

[Cynna]

Ha - not volunteers, but police & coroner reports. :)  I'd like to think my little muppets would at least wait a few days to see if I 'wake up', but they have taste, and know fresher is better. ;)

Edited June 22, 2016 by Cynna

[dramachick]

Oh yeah, the rest of the episode.

Now that Theon is with Tyrion, I'm sure he's going to fill him in on Littlefinger facilitating the marriage between Ramsey and Sansa, and what that entailed.

That could make for an interesting side story if Littlefinger is still around when Tyrion gets back to Westeros.

[Hecate7]

54 minutes ago, ulkis said:

Agreed. I was reading an article a little while ago that said something like "and there's no one who doesn't love-to-hate Ramsey, at least just a little." Don't love to hate the character at all, although admittedly I don't hate him passionately either - I didn't watch a lot of season 4 and 5 and I skipped most of his stuff in season 3. Or whenever it was he had Theon. I'm just glad he's gone already. 

They meant no one who's actually watching the show.

[Mya Stone]

It's true. We ask that preview based speculation be in spoiler tags. 

 

HOWEVER 

 

There really is no "No Book Talk" speculation thread. I'm not really headhunting for people to specify where they come up with their speculation at this point. In the same breath, if you have an issue with someone's post, report it. Don't engage in thread. I am not the nice police, but I also don't really like calling people out. 

[KaleyFirefly]

7 hours ago, meep.meep said:

Of course the evil opposition gets to wear helmets and your locks must remain free to waft in the breeze (even though you are from the frozen north and would be likely to wear a head covering all the time).

Snow hair don't care -- it must be free!

[annsterg]

4 hours ago, candall said:

Whoa there!  I'm surrounded by a pack of cupcakes who respect and adore me, but if I fell comatose on this couch and lasted seven days beyond when their feeders ran dry, I don't have any delusions they'd choose death by starvation before someone started nibbling my toes.

Yep, I know that even pet dogs will eventually dine on their dead owners when they are hungry enough.

But these hounds were trained to hunt and dine on LIVING human flesh...AND they just ate the one person who used to be able to control them. They have to go.

It is still so strange to me that Ghost is completely absent. Did Jon leave him at the Wall?

Did Rickon have even ONE line of dialogue this season?

Edited June 22, 2016 by annsterg

[candall]

1 hour ago, Cynna said:

 As for your cupcakes, you're too optimistic. Many studies have been done on this, and dogs will generally wait around 45 minutes before eating their dead owners.

Oh, well, sure, if I'm dead!  Dogs are very pragmatic.

But in my scenario, I'm still alive.  What's the over/under for that?  Do I need a LifeAlert pendant with a tiny stungun feature?

[sashabear21]

On 6/19/2016 at 10:48 PM, bluvelvet said:

On another note..*small voice*  I'm very ashamed to say that I am now shipping Jon and Sansa *hangs head in shame*...I will see myself out...don't know how this happened..*end small voice*...it will pass...I hope..

Make room at that table for another chair! I'm not sure how it happened either, I think it's the chemistry of the actors, I was a little blindsided by it.  Glad Ramsey got fed to the dogs, I could think of no more fitting end, although the actor is amazing.  This episode had a lot of girl power in it and interested to see where it goes.  

[RedHawk]

14 hours ago, ElleMo said:

I don;t think so.  If Cersei wanted Winterfell, she would just take it.  She wouldn't allow the person who (she believed) killed her son to live.

I agree. Sansa was being hidden ny Littlefinger. Why would he risk contacting Cersei for such a document? I think they went through with the marriage because Sansa declared it unconsumated (to Littlefinger) and everyone thinks Tyrion is dead. 

But I'm quite open to correction.

Edited June 22, 2016 by RedHawk

[bluvelvet]

15 hours ago, MerelyAFan said:

I don't know if it was sloppy writing or we're supposed to think Tyrion has a selective memory, but having rewatched the season 1 scene between him and Theon, he's a much bigger asshole to Greyjoy than vice-versa. Heck Theon only calls him an Imp after Lannister straight up belittles him for really no reason. Maybe there's some other conversation we are to infer they had, however it still struck me as odd.

 

Thank you! For some reason I started rewatching season 1 yesterday and Tyrion was pretty cutting and condescending in his conversation with Theon.  Definitely selective memory, the wine has addled his brain.  I was also trying to read Tyrion in that scene with Theon/Yara, was he on board with the alliance because I got the sense he would have advised Danaerys otherwise.

Have to restate the awesomeness of the dragons this episode.

[Neurochick]

On 6/20/2016 at 2:31 PM, dramachick said:

Perfect shot.

Perfect desktop background too.

My on demand started working again yesterday, so last night I watched the episode again, especially the last scene when Ramsay's dogs finally ate.  Was that a real dog?  It looked real when it got up in his face and was sniffing, but even I could see the bad CG when it bit his face, the sound effects were awesome in that scene.  If that was a real dog, what species is it?  It looked like one of those old hound dogs I used to see on my uncle's porch in Georgia. 

One more thing, did Ramsay see Littlefinger sitting there smiling smugly at him?  If he did, Ramsay must have realized that Littlefinger played him, I mean first he brought Sansa to him, and THEN his defeats his arms. 

Edited June 22, 2016 by Neurochick

[AliShibaz]

On 2016-06-20 at 0:25 PM, RedHawk said:

I really wonder where Jon Snow's character is going from here. He's back from the dead and somewhat invincible. He's helped re-take Winterfell but Sansa is the true leader in the North now. It will be interesting to see how he develops going forward, if he's learned anything from this near-debacle.

Sadly, learning things has never been John's strong suit.

[Lady S.]

11 hours ago, annsterg said:

Did Rickon have even ONE line of dialogue this season?

Nope. Probably because his voice has just recently changed.

Even counting one season as one year in Westeros (which it isn't, going by baby Sam), that would still only make Rickon 11. Art Parkinson was almost 14 when this was filmed and it showed enough just by looking at him. Recasting Rickon would have meant watching Jon react to a stranger's death, but there wasn't really much they could do with a Rickon in the throes of puberty.

[darkestboy]

One of the best episodes ever. Ramsay's death wasn't as painful as it should've been but having Sansa be the one to feed him to his starving hounds was delightfully karmic though.

Sansa going behind Jon's back is what won them the battle. Jon ultimately played into Ramsay's hands too many times throughout the episode.

The battle scenes were intense and claustrophobic and it really did look like for a moment that Ramsay was actually going to win. Poor Rickon and Wun Wun though.

Davos and Tormund had some great scenes in this episode too. Melisandre is doomed next week though, isn't she?

I liked the scenes with the Masters getting their just desserts, the dragons actually being utilised properly and the surprise chemistry with Dany and Yara in this one too while Theon and Tyrion just looked on. 

Can't wait for the finale, 9/10
 

[RCharter]

1 hour ago, bluvelvet said:

 

Thank you! For some reason I started rewatching season 1 yesterday and Tyrion was pretty cutting and condescending in his conversation with Theon.  Definitely selective memory, the wine has addled his brain.  I was also trying to read Tyrion in that scene with Theon/Yara, was he on board with the alliance because I got the sense he would have advised Danaerys otherwise.

Have to restate the awesomeness of the dragons this episode.

I wonder if Tyrion was more upset about Theon killing Bran and Rickon and took it out on Theon by bringing up the mean spirited jokes.

Tyrion has suffered far worse insults and taken them in stride, but I think killing children would really strike Tyrion's heart.  Especially since he liked Bran.

[bluvelvet]

2 minutes ago, RCharter said:

I wonder if Tyrion was more upset about Theon killing Bran and Rickon and took it out on Theon by bringing up the mean spirited jokes.

Tyrion has suffered far worse insults and taken them in stride, but I think killing children would really strike Tyrion's heart.  Especially since he liked Bran.

That's probably the root of all his ire, that make a lot more sense than "I dislike you because you called me a name" 

[terrymct]

I really hope that Littlefinger and the Knights of the Vale just showed up at the last minute (it's a bit of a ride up the King's Road from the Vale, isn't it?). The alternative is that Sansa had them waiting over the hill, putting Jon, Rickon, and all the fighters on their side at risk until it was the right moment to swoop in and surprise Ramsay's troops. That would be a cold and calculated maneuver. Is she capable of that? I'm thinking yes, since the whole feeding Ramsay to the dogs thing was stone cold.