Season 7: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[anamika]

3 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

So there is sparring with Brienne and Arya.

This makes me want a scene of Jon and Arya fighting together. Damn! They fight similarly, sort of like dancing with smooth turns.

 I am hoping that Arya is allowed a decent showing in terms of her Northern political expertise. I am going to be bitterly disappointed if their scenes are always framed as Sansa being right and Arya as wrong.

Edited August 3, 2017 by anamika

[Raachel2008]

3 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I was actually referring to posters here and elsewhere online focusing on what Jon thinks about Daenerys executing the Tarly. Not sure why you felt the snark was necessary.

With all due respect, but how am I'm supposed to know you are worrying about what other posters are saying onlined here and everywhere and not worrying about the actual spoilers posted in this thread? You said:

"There is too much "what Jon thinks" for my liking. Daenerys doesn't need anyone's permission to give the Tarly men the justice that they deserve for their treachery against Olenna and their rebellion against their Dragon Queen. Jon should be worrying about what is happening in the north. He can scold his sisters for executing Littlefinger if he is so concerned about who should or should not be executed for treachery."

And I was not being snarky I was trying to understand what is the problem with the spoilers that in no shape or form say or imply any of that above. Sorry, but you were not clear.

 

6 minutes ago, anamika said:

 I am hoping that Arya is allowed a decent showing in terms of her Northern political expertise. I am going to be bitterly disappointed if their scenes are always framed as Sansa being right and Arya as wrong.

The spoilers about those two are not much, but it looks like they will be butting heads above Sansa's letter mostly. I'm not sure we'll be allowed to see both of them in regards to their Northern political expertise. But let's be honest. None of them had that education, like Robb or maybe Jon had. Arya was a kid when she left, Sansa was a very young teen. They were not involved in the adults' world, neither were they raised that way. I'm sure they listened some stories and picked a few things along the way all those years, specially Sansa, who was older, was in Joffrey's court,  spent all that time with LF, lived with Ramsay, reunited with Jon,  has been back at Winterfell for some time and have met all those Lords at least three time that we know.

I will  be glad if there is a scene where they learn something instead of knowing it all - looking at you and you expertise on armors, Sansa.

[anamika]

With regards to the Jon and Dany thing, I am not seeing a problem yet. Dany already seemed a bit intrigued by Jon last episode and in this one they seem to share a bit of an intimate moment in the caves before discussing the Lannister problem. As a future, potential ally, Dany asks Jon for his opinion. His opinion, seems true to his character - he wants to use the dragons for killing WW and not burning people. Jon has always been against that - he gave Mance a swift death, defying Stannis and Mel. Dany thinks over their advice and makes a decision, a good one, I should say - she demolishes the enemy using fire and blood - true to her character. The dragons are her weapons after all. Both Jon and Dany are differing here in what they think should be done and I don't have a problem with that - as characters they come from very different view points as we saw last episode and they are going to have make concessions and meet in the middle down the line.

What bothers me are Tyrion and Varys. They supported the mother of dragons, they saw what she did to her enemies in Meereen and now, NOW, they are having doubts about her madness and cruelty?! What is the point of the dragons if they are never used. How can they be used? Do they know? Get stuffed, the both of you. Tyrion's divided loyalties and his love for his scum brother is destroying Dany's campaign and if this episode is telling us anything it's that she should stop trusting in his advice and start thinking on her own.

1 hour ago, Raachel2008 said:

None of them had that education, like Robb or maybe Jon had. Arya was a kid when she left, Sansa was a very young teen. They were not involved in the adults' world, neither were they raised that way.

Not true. In the books, Arya learns a lot from the way Ned governed Winterfell because she was hanging out with him. In fact there's a fun part, where she talks about how Ned always ate with his men and listened to their problem because that was important and then we cut to Jon not doing that at the wall - his isolation from his men, ultimately leads to mutiny and death.

Edited August 3, 2017 by anamika

[Brn2bwild]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

What bothers me are Tyrion and Varys. They supported the mother of dragons, they saw what she did to her enemies in Meereen and now, NOW, they are having doubts about her madness and cruelty?! What is the point of the dragons if they are never used. How can they be used? Do they know? Get stuffed, the both of you. Tyrion's divided loyalties and his love for his scum brother is destroying Dany's campaign and if this episode is telling us anything it's that she should stop trusting in his advice and start thinking on her own.

It's especially ironic given that Dany had chained two of her dragons in an underground dungeon to prevent them from hurting anyone, and Tyrion freed them.

[MadMouse]

Whats frustrating about it is that both Tyrion and Varys are smart they know how Aegon and his sisters used their dragons in a strategic way. But it was the fear of those dragons that made the lords bend the knee, that was the whole point. Dany pulling a field of fire redux on the Lannister army is the right move, it sends a message. And like I said before if they really wanted to end the war with the least amount of bloodshed burning the Red Keep with Cersei and her lackeys would be the route to take. 

[Blonde Gator]

19 minutes ago, MadMouse said:

Whats frustrating about it is that both Tyrion and Varys are smart they know how Aegon and his sisters used their dragons in a strategic way. But it was the fear of those dragons that made the lords bend the knee, that was the whole point. Dany pulling a field of fire redux on the Lannister army is the right move, it sends a message. And like I said before if they really wanted to end the war with the least amount of bloodshed burning the Red Keep with Cersei and her lackeys would be the route to take. 

Particularly in the Westerlands and the Reach, Dany could have sent ravens demanding that every lord of the lesser houses (bannerman of the Lannisters...because Cersei in KL, and bannermen of the Reach (mainly Tarly's, because Randall, Sam's dad) come attend her a once on Dragonstone.  (The latter was an oversight by Olenna, Lady Paramount of the Reach) 

At a meeting with all of the lesser lords of the houses of both of these regions, Dany should have demanded that they bend the knee, since the Usurper Robert Baratheon was dead, and his children were dead, and Queen Cersei had no legitimate claim to the Iron Throne.  Therefore, they must bend the knee, immediately, and be rewarded for rejoining the proper and legitimate ruler of the Seven Kingdoms.  For those who didn't immediately bend the knee, she should have reminded them of the history of their ancestors, who did NOT bend the knee to Aegon, and who perished on the "Field of Fire".  For those who still refused, she could have told them to go home and ponder their futures, very carefully.  And then merely done a fly-by with her dragons on their way home, reinforcing the threat.  Second demand, "I will be obeyed, if you do not bend the knee, suffer the fate of your ancestors.  And then follow through with her promise. 

That way, she'd have given all of these people a choice in their own destiny.  Warned them, as it were.   And cemented two more areas of the Seven Kingdoms, probably without a fight.  Without the Westerlands, Cersei has no more army, and by securing The Reach, she deprives Cersei of any further riches and even a remote possibility of resupply.

[MadMouse]

16 minutes ago, Blonde Gator said:

Particularly in the Westerlands and the Reach, Dany could have sent ravens demanding that every lord of the lesser houses (bannerman of the Lannisters...because Cersei in KL, and bannermen of the Reach (mainly Tarly's, because Randall, Sam's dad) come attend her a once on Dragonstone.  (The latter was an oversight by Olenna, Lady Paramount of the Reach) 

At a meeting with all of the lesser lords of the houses of both of these regions, Dany should have demanded that they bend the knee, since the Usurper Robert Baratheon was dead, and his children were dead, and Queen Cersei had no legitimate claim to the Iron Throne.  Therefore, they must bend the knee, immediately, and be rewarded for rejoining the proper and legitimate ruler of the Seven Kingdoms.  For those who didn't immediately bend the knee, she should have reminded them of the history of their ancestors, who did NOT bend the knee to Aegon, and who perished on the "Field of Fire".  For those who still refused, she could have told them to go home and ponder their futures, very carefully.  And then merely done a fly-by with her dragons on their way home, reinforcing the threat.  Second demand, "I will be obeyed, if you do not bend the knee, suffer the fate of your ancestors.  And then follow through with her promise. 

That way, she'd have given all of these people a choice in their own destiny.  Warned them, as it were.   And cemented two more areas of the Seven Kingdoms, probably without a fight.  Without the Westerlands, Cersei has no more army, and by securing The Reach, she deprives Cersei of any further riches and even a remote possibility of resupply.

Exactly, Aegon was generous to all the lords who bent the knee to him. Starks the only family with zero swords in the Iron Throne, Lannister and Arryn (hell even Maegor honored the pact his mother made with them) all were treated with respect. The only houses he wiped out were the two who basically spit in his face, the Hoares and Durrandon. I don't count the Gardners because I don't think he intended to wipe them out they were just stupid enough to bring their whole family to battle. And then he raised two houses who either helped him in battle the Tullys or surrendered the Tyrells. 

[Oscirus]

3 hours ago, anamika said:

What bothers me are Tyrion and Varys. They supported the mother of dragons, they saw what she did to her enemies in Meereen and now, NOW, they are having doubts about her madness and cruelty?! What is the point of the dragons if they are never used. How can they be used? Do they know? Get stuffed, the both of you. Tyrion's divided loyalties and his love for his scum brother is destroying Dany's campaign and if this episode is telling us anything it's that she should stop trusting in his advice and start thinking on her own.

Neither one was supporting her when she pulled that shit with the slavemasters.  They're not calling her crazy for using dragons in war, they're calling her crazy for doing so on prisoners. If your techniques are something that Cersei would do if she had the opportunity then yea, you're kinda crazy.

That being said, Jon " I leave people alive for my sister to kill" Snow has no room to talk.

[anamika]

1 hour ago, Oscirus said:

Neither one was supporting her when she pulled that shit with the slavemasters.  They're not calling her crazy for using dragons in war, they're calling her crazy for doing so on prisoners. If your techniques are something that Cersei would do if she had the opportunity then yea, you're kinda crazy.

That being said, Jon " I leave people alive for my sister to kill" Snow has no room to talk.

Read the spoilers. Tyrion disagrees with her using her dragons. Period. This is the same person who has used Wildfire against his enemies during the battle of the Blackwater. And using the dragons to kill the treasonous traitors who refused to bend the knee makes a strong statement as explained above. Tyrion and Varys should know this. All the other prisoners immediately bend the knee. Cersei exploded a sept full of civilians last season. Dany is executing traitors who refused to bend the knee. You don't see the difference? More importantly, Tyrion does not see the difference between what Dany did and what her father or Cersei did?

As for Jon, Dany asked him his opinion. He gives it.  End of story. He is not trying to prevent her from doing anything nor does he criticize her after she roasts the Tarlys. If the spoilers are right, he pets Drogon on Dany's return trip and they bond over her dragons. I am not sure how any of this relates to Jon giving way to Sansa on how to deal with her rapist. Would he have fed Ramsay to starving dogs? No. But neither did he prevent Sansa from handing out her own form of justice in whichever manner she chose to.

If at any point Jon does indeed criticize Dany as being cruel for burning Tarlys, then he should get called out on his hypocrisy. As you said, he has no room to talk after letting Sansa feed Ramsay to hungry dogs.

Edited August 3, 2017 by anamika

[Oscirus]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

Read the spoilers. Tyrion disagrees with her using her dragons. Period. This is the same person who has used Wildfire against his enemies during the battle of the Blackwater. And using the dragons to kill the treasonous traitors who refused to bend the knee makes a strong statement as explained above. Tyrion and Varys should know this. All the other prisoners immediately bend the knee. Cersei exploded a sept full of civilians last season. Dany is executing traitors who refused to bend the knee. You don't see the difference? More importantly, Tyrion does not see the difference between what Dany did and what her father or Cersei did?

I did read the spoilers. Even if Tyrion disagreed with her use of the dragons he didn't complain about her using them until after this latest battle when she used it on prisoners. 

So I guess you'd agree with Cersei wanting to strip and flay Oleanna too since that would send a strong message as well?

[anamika]

1 hour ago, Oscirus said:

I did read the spoilers. Even if Tyrion disagreed with her use of the dragons he didn't complain about her using them until after this latest battle when she used it on prisoners. 

So I guess you'd agree with Cersei wanting to strip and flay Oleanna too since that would send a strong message as well?

You mean Olenna? Look, there is a difference between sadistically flaying someone for personal pleasure and Dany executing traitors using her dragons. The dragons are a show of power. If you can't see that difference between characters like Ramsay, Cersei and Dany, then there's no point in us having this discussion.

But yes, apparently Randyll Tarly went and met with Cersei because she blew up a sept full of people including Tarly's leige lords. Everyone from the Iron Bank to Euron is supporting Cersei despite her being a mass murderer. The people of KL support her.  Ramsay flaying Northerners had Cerwyn too scared to support the Starks. He flayed, he murdered, he shot arrows at his own men and was victorious till the very end - only losing because of LF deus ex machina. In David and Dan's Westeros, amoral ruthlessness wins the day. Even Sansa wanted to strip children of their homes to make a point and many people agreed with her and called her clever. 

How many times has Jon been called an idiot because his principles are noble? Because he tried to save his brother instead of watching him die? How many times has Ned been called an idiot because he wanted to save Cersei's children? His own daughter called him stupid. Being 'good' on the show equals being an idiot and only leads to defeat and death. Dany tried Tyrion's way. It did not work. So Dany may as well join in and be ruthless. Use her dragons to send a message - bend the knee or be destroyed.  In Westeros that's how people win. Tyrion and Varys, of all people, should know that.

Edited August 3, 2017 by anamika

[SimoneS]

8 hours ago, Blonde Gator said:

Particularly in the Westerlands and the Reach, Dany could have sent ravens demanding that every lord of the lesser houses (bannerman of the Lannisters...because Cersei in KL, and bannermen of the Reach (mainly Tarly's, because Randall, Sam's dad) come attend her a once on Dragonstone.  (The latter was an oversight by Olenna, Lady Paramount of the Reach) 

At a meeting with all of the lesser lords of the houses of both of these regions, Dany should have demanded that they bend the knee, since the Usurper Robert Baratheon was dead, and his children were dead, and Queen Cersei had no legitimate claim to the Iron Throne.  Therefore, they must bend the knee, immediately, and be rewarded for rejoining the proper and legitimate ruler of the Seven Kingdoms.  For those who didn't immediately bend the knee, she should have reminded them of the history of their ancestors, who did NOT bend the knee to Aegon, and who perished on the "Field of Fire".  For those who still refused, she could have told them to go home and ponder their futures, very carefully.  And then merely done a fly-by with her dragons on their way home, reinforcing the threat.  Second demand, "I will be obeyed, if you do not bend the knee, suffer the fate of your ancestors.  And then follow through with her promise. 

That way, she'd have given all of these people a choice in their own destiny.  Warned them, as it were.   And cemented two more areas of the Seven Kingdoms, probably without a fight.  Without the Westerlands, Cersei has no more army, and by securing The Reach, she deprives Cersei of any further riches and even a remote possibility of resupply.

Daenerys did say that she sent ravens to all the lords, but none responded. If D&D was serious about moving the story along and isolating Cersei, they would have done exactly what you suggest which would have naturally been Daenerys' next move. I would have had Daenerys take her dragons and burn down the lands of one or two of the most powerful lords starting with the Tarlys which would have all the bannermen running to attend her at Dragonstone and bend the knee. However, D&D's goal is clearly to string out the story into season 8 so that Cersei can have a long shot.

 

10 hours ago, anamika said:

What bothers me are Tyrion and Varys. They supported the mother of dragons, they saw what she did to her enemies in Meereen and now, NOW, they are having doubts about her madness and cruelty?! What is the point of the dragons if they are never used. How can they be used? Do they know? Get stuffed, the both of you. Tyrion's divided loyalties and his love for his scum brother is destroying Dany's campaign and if this episode is telling us anything it's that she should stop trusting in his advice and start thinking on her own.

Tyrion and Varys have been two of my favorites, but they are rapidly losing my affection so I hope that their scenes play out differently on the screen. I don't even understand their decision to approach Cersei. They both know that woman is cruel and cannot be reasoned with so what is the point of contacting her other than to undermine Daenerys? I understand Tyrion's motivation is his love for Jaime, but what is Varys'? All he is doing is getting more of his beloved "people" killed unnecessarily. Maybe it isn't Varys, but a Faceless Man in his place.

Edited August 3, 2017 by SimoneS

[Eyes High]

From /Freefolk: video footage of the guy who likely has been cast as Rhaegar, Wilf Scolding. I dunno, he seems cute enough to me. 

I'll reserve judgment on Tyrion and Varys' worries about Dany until that scene airs (in 7x05, I guess).

Edited August 3, 2017 by Eyes High

[bubble sparkly]

Maybe Tyrion and Varys getting the vapours over Dany's impromptu BBQ is supposed to be a bait and switch like the Littlefinger/Sansa stuff?  We are supposed to wonder if Sansa is going to betray Arya/Jon but spoilers indicate she orders Littlefinger's death instead.  Perhaps we are supposed to be all "oh noes, Dany might go baaaddddd", only for Dany to decide to go all in on the white walker fight with Jon next ep and thus cement her position as a good guy?  Meanwhile, Cercei is revealed to be the real Mad Queen in the finale with her lie about helping, which finally makes even Jamie turn on her.

[cambridgeguy]

51 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I'll reserve judgment on Tyrion and Varys' worries about Dany until that scene airs (in 7x05, I guess).

Yeah, the context will matter but on the surface they have a point if they're objecting to execution via dragonfire.  It's one thing if they're being used in battle, it's quite another to use them after the fact.  It'd be like Jon using Ghost (remember him?) to kill all of his prisoners since he's the White Wolf and therefore has to live up to his title.   If you want to kill your prisoners that's one thing but there's no reason to make it cruel and unusual. 

[YaddaYadda]

10 hours ago, anamika said:

This makes me want a scene of Jon and Arya fighting together. Damn! They fight similarly, sort of like dancing with smooth turns.

 I am hoping that Arya is allowed a decent showing in terms of her Northern political expertise. I am going to be bitterly disappointed if their scenes are always framed as Sansa being right and Arya as wrong.

I don't think there will be much hope this season, but maybe next season. Regardless, Arya is going to want to fight, and Jon won't be able to stop her or say no when he's having girls train too.

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

From /Freefolk: video footage of the guy who likely has been cast as Rhaegar, Wilf Scolding. I dunno, he seems cute enough to me. 

I'm going to have to forget that image of Devin Oliver. But I can see it. The clip is far better than the picture that was circulating, cuz you know, moving image and all.

Edited August 3, 2017 by YaddaYadda

[tangerine95]

The guy probably playing Rhaegar really isn't how I pictured him which is disappointing since imo the casting for Lyanna was great.I mean he's attractive and all but not really Rhaegar level from how he's described and all the great fancasts raised my expectations.He seems better in video than in pics tho so with the wig and costume it might be better than I'm expecting.

[Eyes High]

42 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

Yeah, the context will matter but on the surface they have a point if they're objecting to execution via dragonfire.  It's one thing if they're being used in battle, it's quite another to use them after the fact.  It'd be like Jon using Ghost (remember him?) to kill all of his prisoners since he's the White Wolf and therefore has to live up to his title.   If you want to kill your prisoners that's one thing but there's no reason to make it cruel and unusual. 

I assumed Tyrion would be objecting not to their executions but to the fact that dragonfire was used to do it, but who knows?

 

42 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

I'm going to have to forget that image of Devin Oliver. But I can see it. The clip is far better than the picture that was circulating, cuz you know, moving image and all.

If the casting call for a handsome young lord was the Rhaegar casting call, they were specifically looking for someone with a Received Pronunciation accent, something Devin Oliver couldn't pull off. 

 

23 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

The guy probably playing Rhaegar really isn't how I pictured him which is disappointing since imo the casting for Lyanna was great.I mean he's attractive and all but not really Rhaegar level from how he's described and all the great fancasts raised my expectations.He seems better in video than in pics tho so with the wig and costume it might be better than I'm expecting.

He wouldn't be the first GOT actor to fail to live up to the superlative attractiveness of the book character he's playing: Robert (who was superhot in his youth, something that's never been true of Mark Addy), Jaime, Loras, Renly, Margaery, Cersei, Catelyn, Lyanna, Theon, etc. etc. On the other hand, ASOIAF's main cast is populated by a bunch of characters who are supposedly superlatively beautiful, which is bound to lead to disappoint for book purists expecting similar physical perfection in the casting choices. I remember when Dany was (re)cast fans were complaining about how Emilia wasn't beautiful enough to play her.

I'm guessing inhumanly gorgeous actors with green eyes (since TV Dany and TV Viserys both have green eyes), RP accents, and who look like they could be credibly related to Harry Lloyd and Kit Harington don't grow on trees. I see a real resemblance between Wilf Scolding and Harry Lloyd, which may have had something to do with his casting, as well. Nina Gold is very good at casting characters who look like they could be related to each other (Theon/Euron, Robert/Gendry, etc.).

Edited August 3, 2017 by Eyes High

[YaddaYadda]

16 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

The guy probably playing Rhaegar really isn't how I pictured him which is disappointing since imo the casting for Lyanna was great.I mean he's attractive and all but not really Rhaegar level from how he's described and all the great fancasts raised my expectations.He seems better in video than in pics tho so with the wig and costume it might be better than I'm expecting.

That's the thing though, we don't really have an actual physical description of him. We know his eye color, his hair color and that he's supposed to be beautiful. I guess the word "beautiful" has everyone's expectations (mine included) really high. 

It's the wig I'm dreading. The wigs make me sad.

[Eyes High]

4 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

It's the wig I'm dreading. The wigs make me sad.

Me, too. Couldn't he just dye his hair or something?

Quote

That's the thing though, we don't really have an actual physical description of him. We know his eye color, his hair color and that he's supposed to be beautiful.

I don't know that even if there were a closer physical description in the books that it would have mattered. Pedro Pascal looked nothing like Oberyn Martell, and no one cared.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Eyes High

[YaddaYadda]

1 minute ago, Eyes High said:

If the casting call for a handsome young lord was the Rhaegar casting call, they were specifically looking for someone with a Received Pronunciation accent, something Devin Oliver couldn't pull off. 

I'm crying on the inside right now.

I'm hoping we'll get some flashbacks with the character, but I also know that Bran is here for exposition, so that's likely not happening.

[Eyes High]

1 minute ago, YaddaYadda said:

I'm crying on the inside right now.

I'm hoping we'll get some flashbacks with the character, but I also know that Bran is here for exposition, so that's likely not happening.

According to Lads, we get a wedding scene and some recited vows, and that's it: Robb/Talisa 2.0, basically. They could bring Rhaegar back for Season 8 flashbacks, though, just as they brought Aisling Franciosi back for Season 7. I for one am very curious as to how he managed to wrangle an annulment with an undeniably consummated, valid marriage, but I'm guessing that's just a show-only contrivance.

[MarySNJ]

13 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I assumed Tyrion would be objecting not to their executions but to the fact that dragonfire was used to do it, but who knows?

 

If the casting call for a handsome young lord was the Rhaegar casting call, they were specifically looking for someone with a Received Pronunciation accent, something Devin Oliver couldn't pull off. 

 

He wouldn't be the first GOT actor to fail to live up to the superlative attractiveness of the book character he's playing: Robert (who was superhot in his youth, something that's never been true of Mark Addy), Jaime, Loras, Renly, Margaery, Cersei, Catelyn, Lyanna, Theon, etc. etc. On the other hand, ASOIAF's main cast is populated by a bunch of characters who are supposedly superlatively beautiful, which is bound to lead to disappoint for book purists expecting similar physical perfection in the casting choices. I remember when Dany was (re)cast fans were complaining about how Emilia wasn't beautiful enough to play her.

I'm guessing inhumanly gorgeous actors with green eyes (since TV Dany and TV Viserys both have green eyes), RP accents, and who look like they could be credibly related to Harry Lloyd and Kit Harington don't grow on trees. I see a real resemblance between Wilf Scolding and Harry Lloyd, which may have had something to do with his casting, as well. Nina Gold is very good at casting characters who look like they could be related to each other (Theon/Euron, Robert/Gendry, etc.).

Nina Gold is golden! The entire cast is fantastic, although they don't necessarily look like they are described in the books. All the Greyjoys are dark haired in the books, and blond on the show, but the actors they chose to play Theon, Yara and Euron really look like they could be related. 

One tiny quibble with the above: Targaryens (who are not mixed with other Houses) all have eyes that are some shade of purple, not green. I believe the show tried to get Emilia and Harry to wear purple contact lenses, but they hurt too much so they ditched the idea.  

Edited August 3, 2017 by MarySNJ

[tangerine95]

9 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

That's the thing though, we don't really have an actual physical description of him. We know his eye color, his hair color and that he's supposed to be beautiful. I guess the word "beautiful" has everyone's expectations (mine included) really high. 

It's the wig I'm dreading. The wigs make me sad.

Yeah that's true we don't have an exact description and I'm guessing it's not easy to cast someone so beautiful that everyone is in awe lol 

The wig could be a mess,I'm hoping they make an effort in this case.

[Eyes High]

23 minutes ago, MarySNJ said:

Nina Gold is golden! The entire cast is fantastic, although they don't necessarily look like they are described in the books. All the Greyjoys are dark haired in the books, and blond on the show, but the actors they chose to play Theon, Yara and Euron really look like they could be related. 

One tiny quibble with the above: Targaryens (who are not mixed with other Houses) all have eyes that are some shade of purple, not green. I believe the show tried to get Emilia and Harry to wear purple contact lenses, but they hurt too much so they ditched the idea.  

I meant that in the show, they seem to be going with most Targs (obviously excepting Jon) having green eyes, since Emilia Clarke and Harry Lloyd both have green eyes, which may explain why they cast yet another green-eyed actor for Rhaegar, assuming Wilf Scolding is indeed the guy. 

And yes, Nina Gold is fantastic when it comes to casting; she worked her magic on The Crown, too. In terms of family resemblance, there was initially more of a resemblance between Sansa and Catelyn as well, with Jennifer Ehle originally being cast, but Ehle being recast put an end to that. Speaking of casting, I looked up David Rintoul (who played the Mad King for all of two seconds last season), and wow, he was hot when he was younger! He even played Darcy in a 1980s adaptation of Pride and Prejudice. Makes sense, since young Aerys was supposed to be quite the looker as well.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Eyes High

[Miss Dee]

Well, if they wanted someone so beautiful it'd have everyone in awe for Rhaegar, they should have cast Tom Welling. Dear God, the man is hotter now than he was in his Superman days....

[YaddaYadda]

40 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

According to Lads, we get a wedding scene and some recited vows, and that's it: Robb/Talisa 2.0, basically. They could bring Rhaegar back for Season 8 flashbacks, though, just as they brought Aisling Franciosi back for Season 7. I for one am very curious as to how he managed to wrangle an annulment with an undeniably consummated, valid marriage, but I'm guessing that's just a show-only contrivance.

Yeah, that's what I meant, for season 8. It's not like Rhaegar doesn't have a lot of explaining to do. 

I think the show is just going with the easiest route on this one. One of the things that always made me scratch my head is how we have a dornish POV in the books (3 at that) and there is less than a peep about that whole situation. Instead we find out that Oberyn wanted to put Viserys on the throne and Doran was plotting to have him married to Arianne and whole other set of shenanigans involving Dany. I'd think Dorne would just give Robert the finger and split from the Seven Kingdoms (although I'm sure that wouldn't be easy). But they decided to stick with the Targs instead. Why is that George? Why?

[Blonde Gator]

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

From /Freefolk: video footage of the guy who likely has been cast as Rhaegar, Wilf Scolding. I dunno, he seems cute enough to me. 

I'll reserve judgment on Tyrion and Varys' worries about Dany until that scene airs (in 7x05, I guess).

I can see him as Rhaegar (or "Ragger", as Gilly says, which just cracks me up every time I think about it).  A bit of a tan, and a good wig, and voila!  Works for me.

Thanks for the heads up.  What with the fascination D&D have for rock stars, I was fearing some Billy Idol V.2.0 type. 

[Spartan Girl]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I can't wait to see all the internet reactions (and YouTube videos) of people when Boatsex happens.  The Burlington Bar video footage is going to be a riot, I'm sure.

[Oscirus]

7 hours ago, anamika said:

You mean Olenna? Look, there is a difference between sadistically flaying someone for personal pleasure and Dany executing traitors using her dragons. The dragons are a show of power. If you can't see that difference between characters like Ramsay, Cersei and Dany, then there's no point in us having this discussion.

I love that  despite previous seasons saying different, that you're trying to tell me that Dany doesn't take personal pleasure in feeding her enemies to dragon/ using dragon fire to kill them. Yea Ramsay and Cersei are worst characters, but her actions are the same as theirs. 

 

 

Rhaegars casting really doesn't matter since we'll likely see him for all of five minutes right wig and right camera angle, voila!

Edited August 3, 2017 by Oscirus

[glowbug]

I'm not sure a dragon fire death would necessarily be that cruel. I would imagine the death would be a quick one if they were blasted straight on with fire, unlike burning someone at the stake which is a very slow and painful death. It could be almost as quick as a beheading and maybe even quicker than hanging. 

The actor supposedly cast as Rhaegar doesn't look anything like I pictured him but he's not a terrible choice either. The picture in the World Book doesn't look anything like the Rhaegar I pictured either. I think the casting has generally been fantastic in the show. Even when they've deviated from the book characters significantly (Ned, Robert, Jorah, etc.) I think they've done a good job. There are exceptions, of course, like the casting of Renley, but in his case the character changes were far more problematic than the casting choice.

Edited August 3, 2017 by glowbug

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

I don't know about the rest of you, but I can't wait to see all the internet reactions (and YouTube videos) of people when Boatsex happens.  The Burlington Bar video footage is going to be a riot, I'm sure.

I love the Burlington Bar videos, and yes, they're going to go nuts. It will be awesome.

 

19 minutes ago, glowbug said:

The actor supposedly cast as Rhaegar doesn't look anything like I pictured him but he's not a terrible choice either. The picture in the World Book doesn't look anything like the Rhaegar I pictured either. I think the casting has generally been fantastic in the show. Even when they've deviated from the book characters significantly (Ned, Robert, Jorah, etc.) I think they've done a good job. There are exceptions, of course, like the casting of Renley, but in his case the character changes were far more problematic than the casting choice.

TWOIAF Rhaegar seems to have been modeled off Chris Hemsworth. Charlie Hunnam allegedly turned down a GOT role not too long ago because of scheduling conflicts; it could have been Rhaegar. If a Charlie Hunnam type--strong jaw, blonde, warrior type--was what they were after, it's not surprising that Wilf Scolding was cast.

I'm not too married to actors' physical appearance when judging the show versions of the characters. Alfie Allen and Iain Glen are totally wrong for Theon and Jorah in terms of appearance, but they are perfect in the roles. Aiden Gillen could have walked straight out of the books when it comes to his resemblance to Book Littlefinger, but his performance is definitely one of the weaker ones in my opinion.

[Enigma X]

IMO, this guy, based on his looks, is a disappointing Rhaegar. Hunnam would have been much better.

[MadMouse]

As a guy I guess my question is that actor really unattractive? How many men in life can you really describe as beautiful, handsome yes but beautiful? Maybe its just a gender thing and its hard for me to grasp. I can recognize that men like Hemsworth or Hunnam are really good looking but I would never use the word beautiful to describe them. 

I think we also have to remember that a lot of Rheagar's attractiveness was also from his personality. Guy was great at everything he put his mind to, humble and melancholy. 

[Azi]

I think one of the few actors most people (there are always a few exceptions) find physically beautiful is Matt Bomer. But that doesn't mean his face would have been a fit for the character and of course he'd have been too old anyway... but then, one never knows who can pull off those wigs. Maybe that dude I assume the leaks say is our Rhaegar will actually look really awesome with it?

[YaddaYadda]

I couldn't even begin to think of a man I find "beautiful". I'm also the few exceptions that don't find Matt Bomer beautiful.

Loras is described as beautiful, and I was disappointed with that casting. 

[WindyNights]

5 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

Yeah, that's what I meant, for season 8. It's not like Rhaegar doesn't have a lot of explaining to do. 

I think the show is just going with the easiest route on this one. One of the things that always made me scratch my head is how we have a dornish POV in the books (3 at that) and there is less than a peep about that whole situation. Instead we find out that Oberyn wanted to put Viserys on the throne and Doran was plotting to have him married to Arianne and whole other set of shenanigans involving Dany. I'd think Dorne would just give Robert the finger and split from the Seven Kingdoms (although I'm sure that wouldn't be easy). But they decided to stick with the Targs instead. Why is that George? Why?

Because Rhaegar didn't do anything that the Dornish saw as offensive. Having a paramour is normal in Dorne. Rhaegar's son is still half-Dornish. 

And Doran only supported Viserys on the condition that he would marry Arianne . It's a political power play. 

Doran doesn't seem to hold too much of a grudge over the Baratheons anyhow. It's the Lannisters that he hates and even then he betrothed his youngest son to Myrcella still. Was he going to execute her later? Unlikely.

 

He was probably going to try to plant Trystane on Casterly Rock with Quentyn as King of Westeros and Arianne as the Princess of Dorne.

[Eyes High]

48 minutes ago, MadMouse said:

As a guy I guess my question is that actor really unattractive? How many men in life can you really describe as beautiful, handsome yes but beautiful? Maybe its just a gender thing and its hard for me to grasp. I can recognize that men like Hemsworth or Hunnam are really good looking but I would never use the word beautiful to describe them. 

I think we also have to remember that a lot of Rheagar's attractiveness was also from his personality. Guy was great at everything he put his mind to, humble and melancholy. 

I don't think Hemsworth or Hunnam are particularly physically beautiful, either. If I'm thinking of physical perfection incarnate in current actors (at least as far as white dudes go), that's more of a Matt Bomer type., as @Azi said, or Henry Cavill. One doesn't need that sort of perfection to be incredibly attractive, but that's what I think of when I think of "physically beautiful."

Cersei thought that Rhaegar made Jaime look like a stableboy, and coming from someone as narcissistic as Cersei who views Jaime as her mirror, that's quite an admission and gives a sense of what we're dealing with in the books. I don't think it matters all that much for the show, since the show has never mentioned how handsome Rhaegar supposedly is. Someone with the right eye colour, a cute smile, who somewhat resembles Harry Lloyd? Sold.

 

19 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

I couldn't even begin to think of a man I find "beautiful". I'm also the few exceptions that don't find Matt Bomer beautiful.

Loras is described as beautiful, and I was disappointed with that casting. 

I didn't think of Finn Jones as attractive until he cut his hair short, but he looks quite a bit like Sam Heughan from Outlander, now that I think about it.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Eyes High

[domina89]

1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

I couldn't even begin to think of a man I find "beautiful". I'm also the few exceptions that don't find Matt Bomer beautiful.

I also am in that camp that doesn't find Bomer attractive.  I do think Aidan Turner is beautiful, though.  

Going back to the idea that Dany has a mole in her camp, I think something interesting to consider is that Cersei did not question Yara, Ellaria or Tyene (that we know of) about Dany's plans.  Why wouldn't she want to get that information out of them?  Ellaria would have told her anything to spare her daughter.  To me this is suspect... unless she already has an informant.  

Edited August 3, 2017 by domina89

[MrWhyt]

2 hours ago, domina89 said:

I also am in that camp that doesn't find Bomer attractive.  I do think Aidan Turner is beautiful, though.  

Going back to the idea that Dany has a mole in her camp, I think something interesting to consider is that Cersei did not question Yara, Ellaria or Tyene (that we know of) about Dany's plans.  Why wouldn't she want to get that information out of them?  Ellaria would have told her anything to spare her daughter.  To me this is suspect... unless she already has an informant.  

Cersei is mad with the need for vengence, she don't give a fuck about Dany's plans.

[WindyNights]

2 hours ago, domina89 said:

I also am in that camp that doesn't find Bomer attractive.  I do think Aidan Turner is beautiful, though.  

Going back to the idea that Dany has a mole in her camp, I think something interesting to consider is that Cersei did not question Yara, Ellaria or Tyene (that we know of) about Dany's plans.  Why wouldn't she want to get that information out of them?  Ellaria would have told her anything to spare her daughter.  To me this is suspect... unless she already has an informant.  

You're over-thinking it. The show doesn't operate on much logic anymore

[Azi]

I don't find Bomer attractive either, but I can see that he's objectively very beautiful.

I wonder if we'll ever see Ellaria again. It's clear that we won't in this season, but Cersei is technically keeping her alive, right? I don't really like her all that much, but I love Indira a lot and wouldn't mind if she got a personality transplant due to having seen her daughter rot...

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, Azi said:

I wonder if we'll ever see Ellaria again. It's clear that we won't in this season, but Cersei is technically keeping her alive, right? I don't really like her all that much, but I love Indira a lot and wouldn't mind if she got a personality transplant due to having seen her daughter rot...

Indira Varma says here that it's the last we'll see of Ellaria.

 

Quote

I don't find Bomer attractive either, but I can see that he's objectively very beautiful.

Agreed. 

Edited August 4, 2017 by Eyes High

[TarotQueen]

5 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

I couldn't even begin to think of a man I find "beautiful". 

Well personally, I'd have to begin with Thrones own Christopher "Kit" Catesby Harrington.

Edited August 4, 2017 by TarotQueen

[Raachel2008]

11 hours ago, Eyes High said:

In terms of family resemblance, there was initially more of a resemblance between Sansa and Catelyn as well, with Jennifer Ehle originally being cast, but Ehle being recast put an end to that.

Maybe if we ever see an older Sansa she could play her. I know Jennifer said she chose to not join GoT because she had just given birth and all that, but I've always thought she looked too young to pass as Richard Madden's mother (in the same vein, I think Michelle Fairley was bit too old for the role.

11 hours ago, MarySNJ said:

One tiny quibble with the above: Targaryens (who are not mixed with other Houses) all have eyes that are some shade of purple, not green. I believe the show tried to get Emilia and Harry to wear purple contact lenses, but they hurt too much so they ditched the idea.  

A long time ago, I read somewhere that not only the contact lenses hurt, but they didn't have a very natural looking in the fnished material.

As far as the casting for Rhaegar goes, nobody in real life can meet books/mythology expectactations. Take Helen of Troy; is Diane Kruger stunning? Of course.  But I'm sure we all could come with a thousand blue eyed blondes as pretty or even prettier than her.

The casting works for me. More important, I can see why young Lyanna would fall for him. I don't need Wilf Scolding to be smoking hot, though I find him hot. I need him to be attractive enough to convince me that Lyanna would look at him twice, but more than anything I need him to convince me that he fell so hard for Lyanna that 'fuck the consequences, I'm in love'.

Also, hot/beautiful/stunning is relative. I'm sure the actors/actresses I finde the hottest in GoT are not the same of others.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Raachel2008

[SimoneS]

11 hours ago, Oscirus said:

I love that  despite previous seasons saying different, that you're trying to tell me that Dany doesn't take personal pleasure in feeding her enemies to dragon/ using dragon fire to kill them. Yea Ramsay and Cersei are worst characters, but her actions are the same as theirs. 

I think Daenerys takes satisfaction from punishing and defeating her enemies, not their suffering as they are burnt alive. The exception is probably the witch who she sacrificed to birth her dragons. 

I have always felt that context of the kill and the victim determines how I judge the killer. For example, IMO Ramsay setting his dogs on Walda and her baby were vicious murders, while Sansa setting his dogs on Ramsay was justice. 

Edited August 4, 2017 by SimoneS

[WindyNights]

1 hour ago, TarotQueen said:

Well personally, I'd have to begin with Thrones own Christopher "Kit" Catesby Harrington.

I don't get it. He looks like a hobo to me. 

[TarotQueen]

well we all have our tastes ....

[screamin]

I always thought of Rhaegar as looking like David Bowie in Labyrinth...if anyone deserved the description of 'beautiful', he did.

[Enigma X]

5 minutes ago, screamin said:

I always thought of Rhaegar as looking like David Bowie in Labyrinth...if anyone deserved the description of 'beautiful', he did.

I honestly saw that as a possibility too.