S06.E08: No One

[stillshimpy]

Seriously, all it takes is a line from Lady Crane about how Arya was very lucky, the wounds weren't deep because her vest blunted the blade and absorbed the blows.  Instead the Waif stabs Arya in a manner reminiscent of Talisa being stabbed to death in the baby and then runs through the streets fueled by narcotics and blood loss.  Then shows up to talk to Jaquen without so much as a limp or a strange pallor.  

I'm willing to believe a lot of strange stuff.  That the Children of the Forest made the White Walkers to try and stop man.  That the same Children of the Forest had sap grenades secreted about their persons.  Truly, all a fantasy story has to do is hang some damned framework around a mystical construct and I'm not a tough sell.  

In Arya's case they showed her being stabbed in a manner that killed another character.  Then she went sprinting around Bravos and managed to kill The Waif -- who for some reason didn't avail herself of the opportunity to murder Arya at the same time she killed Lady Crane, because she wanted Arya to have a sporting chance.   Throw me a damned bone, Story.  Have her eat some fucking Wheaties at the very, very least.  Instead she had Heroin Juice and then body surfed down the cobble stones with only some fruit for cushioning. 

Quote

This is just me going on instinct and I could be full of shit, but I feel it's less that they hate Jaime and more that they didn't really feel it was fair he evolved and she didn't in the books. I feel if Cercei had evolved along with Jaime, then the show writers would have been more inclined to reflect more of book Jaime.

That is the sense I've gotten also.  It isn't so much that they really dislike Jaime's character arc as much as book Cersei is a bunch of misogynist cliches rolled into one.  A beautiful woman who is manipulative, uses sex as a tool, resents not being a man and is an evil Queen.  Aside from the brother-fucking book Cersei is essentially formed of the stuff of an old-time-animated Disney Queen/Villain.    

I just wish that in adding something other than the most shallow and perfunctory of character developments to Cersei, that they hadn't robbed Jaime to pay Cersei in this instance.  The thing is, show Cersei is still evil, still deceitful, still manipulative and still stupid in many of the same ways book Cersei was, so there was actually no need to just throw away Jaime's characterization in service of expanding Cersei's characterization.  

I do agree that's what they did though and that it wasn't about disliking Jaime's characterization as much as it was finding Book Cersei's material to be very thin.  

Edited June 14, 2016 by stillshimpy

[benteen]

8 hours ago, ElizaD said:

Even though the ending will be the same (I believe Jaime will kill Cersei), from a character POV there's a big difference between Jaime turning away from Cersei because he's trying to become a better man and Jaime turning away only because she has become a full-blown mass murderer who burned thousands if not tens of thousands of people; the first is about Jaime's growth as a person independent of Cersei's moral state, the second takes Cersei so over the top that having a problem with it is not a sign of developing honor and conscience, it's the bare minimum expected of anyone who's not a psychopath. Book Jaime has stumbled, and I'm nowhere near as impressed by his change as many others are, but it can't all be reduced to bitterness over Lancel and the Kettleblacks. He refused sex with Cersei even before he freed Tyrion and heard about her affairs, because for the first time he was starting to feel that he needed to honor his oaths and was not happy with the man he felt himself to be; on the show, however, he ended up pushing the White Book away for reconciliation sex, making Cersei still his #1. So I disagree about the show having a better character arc because it's not actually an arc for Jaime: it's stagnation until he does a 180 turn in response to Cersei's act of supervillainy, an external rather than an internal motivation that's about an act committed by another character and not Jaime himself.

This.  Cersei is going to do something that's going to make it almost impossible for Jaime not to turn away from her.  It takes agency away from Jaime that he's only turning away from her for this and not because he realizes how toxic she is and how toxic his relationship with her is.

I mentioned this a few weeks ago but despite how much D&D love the Lannisters, they've reduced all of them to one-dimensional characters.  Tyrion has become the loveable good guy who has had all shades of gray wiped completely clean off of him.  Jaime, in the worlds of D&D, is a "monster who loves killing" and has had his head firmly up Cersei's ass for six consecutive seasons.  Now, Cersei was ALWAYS a one-dimensional character in the books but instead of making her a one-dimensional villain (albeit a very interesting one) they've made her sympathetic and taken away a lot of her evil actions.  She is a "misunderstood mom who loves her children" according to D&D.  They've done to Cersei what they did to Catelyn.  Take away her agency and most of her complexity to make her a generic mother figure.  Thankfully, Cersei, Jaime and Tyrion (and Catelyn in previous season of course) are played by three great actors who rise above the one-dimensional material that D&D have saddled them with and have done something memorable with them.  Dinklage is rightfully an Emmy-Award winner (though the Emmys gave him Jonathan Banks award last year), Headey has rightfully been nominated, and NCW SHOULD HAVE been nominated for his stellar and memorable work in Season 3 (you know, the last season where Jaime was actually a complex character working toward redemption).

[Cherpumple]

I got a little nervous for Sansa’s future when Blackfish noted that “she’s exactly like her mother.” Sansa, you in danger girl.

I thought the “Riverrun at night” scenes were beautifully shot. I often complain that this show is too dark (especially scenes at the Wall), but the torchlights on the ramparts, and even the shots of Jaime in near total darkness looking at Brienne were gorgeous.

Writers: you can have a shocking scene of Arya being grievously wounded OR you can have her be well enough to go on a kick-ass high-speed parkour chase throughout Braavos. You cannot have both.

I loved the Hound 2.0. He’s still mainly himself, but he’s not quite as highly strung and seething with rage as he used to be. He’s now a chilled out thug. I love it! And I loved the callback to how much he loves chicken.

Meereen was as boring as ever, but I was kind of hoping that Missandei and Grey Worm would get tipsy and then go make out with each other. They were definitely my Tormund/Brienne of last season, but that relationship has been completely ignored this season.

On 6/13/2016 at 4:04 AM, mac123x said:

I'm still hanging on to an unexplained cryptic comment from Littlefinger to Olenna back in season 5 -- he said he'd give her the same gift he gave Cercei, a handsome young man.  I always assumed that was Olyvar,  the male prostitute that Loras was banging.  He'll show up at Loras's trial and recant his testimony, thus freeing Loras.

I thought he was referring to Lancel, since the confessions of this "handsome young man" were what got Cersei arrested by the High Sparrow. So, in effect, he gave Olyvar's testimony to Cersei to bring down Loras and Margaery, and then gave Lancel's testimony to Olenna to bring down Cersei.

[Wulfsige]

Maybe I’m a pessimist —and if I am it’s not my fault, the show has made me one —but I’m not getting what benefit there was to Edmure to surrender. I’m supposing by now he’s either been executed along with whatever faithful Tully retainers and soldiers the Freys rounded up, or, if he’s lucky, back in a dudgeon. I can’t see the Freys going from abusing him in a dudgeon to welcoming him back into the family, nor any reason why they should. Mrs. Edmure, one assumes, hasn’t expressed any concern for baby daddy since their one-night stand ’years’ ago and doesn’t have any clout anyway. Jamie, by his own admission, is high-tailing it back to Cersie ASAP and doesn’t care what happens next. They obviously planned to kill/did kill Blackfish. I guess Edmure hopes that the toddler that he’s never seen and which may not exist will be allowed to continue to exist, but given that this is the Freys we’re talking about, there’s no guarantee of that either and I’m not seeing that Love and Family picture thingie for Edmure that Jamie was trying to paint and it seems a flimsy hope on which to surrender. 

 

I’m not seeing how the story can provide a satisfying Jamie/Cersie split. If there’s a dawning realization after all these years that maybe she’s not a Nice Moral Person after all and he does a Slow Fade so to speak, he’s going to look shallow (or badly written) after his passionate declarations earlier this season about love and no one else in the world mattering except them, etc. I don’t see him being so teen-boy-angsty as to care about Lancel, it wasn’t about lust on her part, she was paying Lancel for killing Robert and they had to kill Robert to protect her children which incidentally are Jamie’s children. In all of that, sex with Lancel, the prospect of which she clearly wasn’t enthusiastic about, doesn’t seem worth getting weepy and upset over. And, as others have said, if she has a complete psychotic break and does something so heinous that Jamie has to stop her then he’s just reacting to circumstances, in the manner that almost anyone would have to do, and in any case that doesn’t mean that he’s fallen out of love with her, nor that the love that they’ve had was meaningless.

 

He is on occasion wistfully wishing he could embody honour, but I’m wondering if in the end love won’t triumph over honour for him. Remains to be seen.

[Haleth]

If only the Blackfish had a few cows.

[Tikichick]

43 minutes ago, Wulfsige said:

Maybe I’m a pessimist —and if I am it’s not my fault, the show has made me one —but I’m not getting what benefit there was to Edmure to surrender. I’m supposing by now he’s either been executed along with whatever faithful Tully retainers and soldiers the Freys rounded up, or, if he’s lucky, back in a dudgeon. I can’t see the Freys going from abusing him in a dudgeon to welcoming him back into the family, nor any reason why they should. Mrs. Edmure, one assumes, hasn’t expressed any concern for baby daddy since their one-night stand ’years’ ago and doesn’t have any clout anyway. Jamie, by his own admission, is high-tailing it back to Cersie ASAP and doesn’t care what happens next. They obviously planned to kill/did kill Blackfish. I guess Edmure hopes that the toddler that he’s never seen and which may not exist will be allowed to continue to exist, but given that this is the Freys we’re talking about, there’s no guarantee of that either and I’m not seeing that Love and Family picture thingie for Edmure that Jamie was trying to paint and it seems a flimsy hope on which to surrender. 

 

I’m not seeing how the story can provide a satisfying Jamie/Cersie split. If there’s a dawning realization after all these years that maybe she’s not a Nice Moral Person after all and he does a Slow Fade so to speak, he’s going to look shallow (or badly written) after his passionate declarations earlier this season about love and no one else in the world mattering except them, etc. I don’t see him being so teen-boy-angsty as to care about Lancel, it wasn’t about lust on her part, she was paying Lancel for killing Robert and they had to kill Robert to protect her children which incidentally are Jamie’s children. In all of that, sex with Lancel, the prospect of which she clearly wasn’t enthusiastic about, doesn’t seem worth getting weepy and upset over. And, as others have said, if she has a complete psychotic break and does something so heinous that Jamie has to stop her then he’s just reacting to circumstances, in the manner that almost anyone would have to do, and in any case that doesn’t mean that he’s fallen out of love with her, nor that the love that they’ve had was meaningless.

 

He is on occasion wistfully wishing he could embody honour, but I’m wondering if in the end love won’t triumph over honour for him. Remains to be seen.

What kind of pressure or persuasion do you suppose "Mrs. Edmure"/Lady Tully could bring to Walder that would be in the slightest way effective?  It's clear that all of the Freys, especially the women, are vassels or chattel to be dispatched on Walder's say so.  She may absolutely be pining for the future with her husband she thought could be, a lot of good that will do her.

[paigow]

43 minutes ago, Haleth said:

If only the Blackfish had a few cows.

Or more than 1 boat...If we had realm jumping, a descendant of Blackfish probably approved the passenger to lifeboat ratio for the Titanic.

[Misplaced]

5 hours ago, benteen said:

Cersei is going to do something that's going to make it almost impossible for Jaime not to turn away from her.  It takes agency away from Jaime that he's only turning away from her for this and not because he realizes how toxic she is and how toxic his relationship with her is.

But I don't see why he has to turn away from her at all.  No, really!  It goes along with my belief that Jaime's redemptive arc is more of a redemptive quarter, that he ultimately goes back to Cersei in the end.  If that's true, then Cersei blowing up KL with wildfire isn't going to make him turn away from her -- I still think he'll kill her, mind you, but he'll do it because he thinks he has to, not because he doesn't love her.  I can see that being Jaime's great tragedy, that he can't break away from the one person who keeps him from being honorable, noble, normal, what have you. 

[SeanC]

1 minute ago, Misplaced said:

But I don't see why he has to turn away from her at all.  No, really!  It goes along with my belief that Jaime's redemptive arc is more of a redemptive quarter, that he ultimately goes back to Cersei in the end.  If that's true, then Cersei blowing up KL with wildfire isn't going to make him turn away from her -- I still think he'll kill her, mind you, but he'll do it because he thinks he has to, not because he doesn't love her.  I can see that being Jaime's great tragedy, that he can't break away from the one person who keeps him from being honorable, noble, normal, what have you. 

I don't really see that.  Jaime in the books has basically already given Cersei up for dead, and is off with Brienne to confront Lady Stoneheart.  Whenever he sees Cersei again, she's going to be completely nuts.

[Wulfsige]

51 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

What kind of pressure or persuasion do you suppose "Mrs. Edmure"/Lady Tully could bring to Walder that would be in the slightest way effective?  It's clear that all of the Freys, especially the women, are vassels or chattel to be dispatched on Walder's say so.  She may absolutely be pining for the future with her husband she thought could be, a lot of good that will do her.

That's what I meant by saying she doesn't have any clout.

[OhOkayWhat]

I have read the criticism about Arya story in the two last episodes in other boards, maybe it is the same here (i did not read all the pages), and some of it is correct, but also, we should consider a few points:

1) Arya recovery time is unknown.

2) Arya did NOT know the things audience knows: the Waif being a witness of Arya rejecting the mission.

3) Hiding Neddle is not the same than expecting an attack.

4) Arya needed to act like a rich kid while she was talking to the captain.

5) We do not know how much time went between Arya defeating Waif and Arya confronting Un-Jaquen.

6) Un-Jaquen said: "Finally, a girl is No One" (or something like that). Well, I suspect he knew exactly her reply before she said it. And that is the reason he said that.

7) This is also the Waif story and how the presence of Arya changed her.

Lots of those points are not mine and I have read them in other forums, but I agree mostly with them

Edited June 15, 2016 by OhOkayWhat

[Raachel2008]

10 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

It bothers me because I think it was a cheap fake out of a cliff hanger.  Will Arya die???  Of course not.  There's no way she could survive that injury, and no explanation for how she did.  A much milder injury would have sufficed, and had as much impact, IMO.  It sort of reminds me of Sansa and Theon's leap from the top of Winterfell.  I hand wave it because I want these characters to survive, but it's a bit irritating when the trick is repeated.

Could you please remind me how the Hound knows about LF's betrayal?

IIRC, in the first book there was something about Bran and Arya (maybe Sansa too) leaping from the top of the walls of Winterfell on the snow, something they did during winters. Sure, when I read that somehow I didn`t image the fall to be so high, but...

[TaurusRose]

20 hours ago, paigow said:

Ramsey wanted to capture Castle Black and kill Jon...Roose warned him that would be unwise because the other houses would see that as murder and unstable behaviour. So by making Jon attack Winterfell, Ramsey has the self-defence card. Pretty smart.

Self-defense?  Against the people who rightfully belong at Winterfell?  Hahahahahahahaha.  Ramsay isn't being smart, he's being really, really stupid. He's foolishly letting a few sadistic victories make him think he can provoke the remaining Starks and win.  I think he's over-reached this time.  Sansa and Jon are plenty motivated to take back Winterfell and rally the North; Sansa (who has reason to want him dead) and Jon (who has a fucking army that includes wildlings and giants who are happy to follow him) have a brother to rescue. And if nothing else, it's time that insane fucker got what he deserved.  

Edited June 15, 2016 by taurusrose

[scout1207]

17 hours ago, feverfew said:

With the cravat that I haven't read Dance more than once, my problem with book!Jaime is that I feel you have to really read between the lines to get to that interpretation of Jaime's rejection of Cersei. What stayed with me was the sexual jealousy and his worry over his lack of knightly achievements, not a longing to be a better man in and of itself. And Martin's tendency to make characters repeat the same lines definitely didn't help -  "...and Moonboy for all I know" is really all I took away from Jaime's Riverland arc. Of course, it might just mean that I skimmed too much.

Happy Harpy and Feverfew said it better than I could. ElizaD and Gertrude did make a great point that it would better if Jamie broke from Cersei based on his own self-awareness and moral evolution. However I also only read Dance once, and maybe it wasn't GRRM's intention, but what stuck with me was doubt placed in his mind by Tyrion that Cersei was unfaithful to him as well as recognizing as the "kingslayer" he won't measure up to other knights in history.  Show!Jaimie hasn't seemed to have that much self-reflection since he and Brienne were prisoners.

Edited June 15, 2016 by scout1207

[lmsweb]

7 hours ago, Haleth said:

If only the Blackfish had a few cows.

That reminded me of this clip, which is pretty much the last 2 episodes of Arya:
 

[Pogojoco]

22 hours ago, paigow said:

Ramsey wanted to capture Castle Black and kill Jon...Roose warned him that would be unwise because the other houses would see that as murder and unstable behaviour. So by making Jon attack Winterfell, Ramsey has the self-defence card. Pretty smart.

Killing Jon at Castle Black is dumb, too. How would that be advantageous to Ramsey strategically, as Warden of the North? Jon is not true born and he's a sworn brother of the Night's Watch- as far as being a player in Westeros, he's already dead. Roose Bolton was much, much smarter than Ramsey, who is a brat with impulse control problems. DIE! 

Edited June 15, 2016 by Pogojoco

[Knuckles]

15 hours ago, Wulfsige said:

I’m not getting what benefit there was to Edmure to surrender.

You are not a pessimist, you're a realist. Edmure, admittedly weakened by a few years in a Frey dungeon, was an exhausted, broken man, and as we saw earlier, in his dealings with Blackfish and Robb over his quick marriage to a Frey girl, easily bullied. There was no advantage to be had, only his hopes...but the Freys have no reason to keep him alive, he has no value now as a hostage. Jaime blew smoke with a talk of some baby, with no evidence that such a child exits. The reality of what he did was the soldier who insisted on allowing Edmure to enter the castle as the rightful lord...and the look of horror on his face when he realized a total surrender was on the agenda...Edmure is toast, as is the Tully garrison in the castle, and the Frey armies will loot the villages and towns dependent on the Tully's as payment, as is medieval tradition. 

The Blackfish could have withstood a 2 year siege, while Jaime has an urgent need to return to KL and Cersei, where the situation is deteriorating and her trial is upcoming. Even with an all out attack, a well-defended castle would have cost the Frey and Lannister armies dearly. And why not...if death is on the agenda, make your enemies pay dearly, don't just quietly lay down for the slaughter.

[Tikichick]

Caught a rebroadcast of the show from the point where the Waif trails Arya down the stairs and into the nook where she finds her crouched with Needle and the final confrontation.  What intrigued me was Arya placing Needle up in front of her face, closing her eyes and snuffing the candle.  We then move to the House of Black and White with Jaqen discovering things are amiss and coming face to needlepoint with Arya.  The story plays out much stronger only seeing those scenes, and IMO much clearer.  The camera focus on the bloodtrail Arya leaves for the Waif makes it seem as if Arya is beckoning her along.  Jaqen's sanguine acceptance of Arya with Needle perched on his heart and everything she says indicates to me he was training her for this all along and once she had completed the training she was ready to face Arya's battles.  He is either Syrio in another guise or he took up Syrio's apprentice deliberately once he knew another acolyte of the House of Black and White had been training her. 

Absent some of the details that would answer a lot of the inconsistencies in how the story came to the conclusion I still don't love what we saw on screen, but coming in on only the wrap up without the distracting mess of getting there really clinched it for me at last.

[benteen]

1 hour ago, Knuckles said:

You are not a pessimist, you're a realist. Edmure, admittedly weakened by a few years in a Frey dungeon, was an exhausted, broken man, and as we saw earlier, in his dealings with Blackfish and Robb over his quick marriage to a Frey girl, easily bullied. There was no advantage to be had, only his hopes...but the Freys have no reason to keep him alive, he has no value now as a hostage. Jaime blew smoke with a talk of some baby, with no evidence that such a child exits. The reality of what he did was the soldier who insisted on allowing Edmure to enter the castle as the rightful lord...and the look of horror on his face when he realized a total surrender was on the agenda...Edmure is toast, as is the Tully garrison in the castle, and the Frey armies will loot the villages and towns dependent on the Tully's as payment, as is medieval tradition. 

The Blackfish could have withstood a 2 year siege, while Jaime has an urgent need to return to KL and Cersei, where the situation is deteriorating and her trial is upcoming. Even with an all out attack, a well-defended castle would have cost the Frey and Lannister armies dearly. And why not...if death is on the agenda, make your enemies pay dearly, don't just quietly lay down for the slaughter.

I'm convinced on the show that Edmure will not survive when this is all said and done.

[proserpina65]

On ‎06‎/‎13‎/‎2016 at 6:27 PM, magdalene said:

Show Jaime continuing to support and love Cersei above all else, everybody else and above all reason. I don't see any reason to question his intent to do anything, no matter how vile for her. There is a huge gulf between books Jaime and show Jaime at this point.

I still think it was as much a bluff as it was in the books (irc, he admitted in his book POV that he would've done it if he'd had to), but I agree in general that there is a huge and unfortunate gulf between the two.  D&D just really don't get Jaime at all.

[mac123x]

21 hours ago, Wulfsige said:

Maybe I’m a pessimist —and if I am it’s not my fault, the show has made me one —but I’m not getting what benefit there was to Edmure to surrender. I’m supposing by now he’s either been executed along with whatever faithful Tully retainers and soldiers the Freys rounded up, or, if he’s lucky, back in a dudgeon.

It wasn't just the Freys who captured Riverrun after Eddie surrendered -- it was a Lannister army too.  Edmure is just as likely to be a captive of the Lannisters.  Jaime promised him that he'd have a comfortable life with his wife, and his son would be raised to become a knight.  The alternative was death for everyone inside the castle.  He took a calculated risk that the Kingslayer would actually keep his word. 

 

The dialog in the books is more extended (with Jaime basically channeling his father, describing how he'd do to Riverrun what Tywin did to Castamere), but I think the show did an adequate job of showing the options Jaime gave Edmure.

 

19 hours ago, OhOkayWhat said:

1) Arya recovery time is unknown.

2) Arya did NOT know the things audience knows: the Waif being a witness of Arya rejecting the mission.

3) Hiding Neddle is not the same than expecting an attack.

4) Arya needed to act like a rich kid while she was talking to the captain.

5) We do not know how much time went between Arya defeating Waif and Arya confronting Un-Jaquen.

6) Un-Jaquen said: "Finally, a girl is No One" (or something like that). Well, I suspect he knew exactly her reply before she said it. And that is the reason he said that.

7) This is also the Waif story and how the presence of Arya changed her.

Lots of those points are not mine and I have read them in other forums, but I agree mostly with them

1.  She was bleeding when she arrived at Lady Crane's place, and was still wincing during their soup dialog.  Maybe Lady Crane gave her enough heroin milk of the poppy to knock her out for an extended period of time, but it only seemed a day, maybe two at most.

3.  the preceeding episode had her retrieve her sword and hunker down in a defensible position.  She knew full well that the FM would come after her ("a girl has been given a second chance.  There is no third.")  I suppose it could be justified as "she was ready for an attack, then when it didn't materialize she decided to find a ship home" but the editing didn't convey much passage of time between the end of 6.06 and her first scene in 6.07.

5.  There was wet blood on the floor and dripping from the Waif's disembodied face.  That had to have happened within hours of Arya killing her.

[Hanahope]

1 hour ago, mac123x said:

the preceeding episode had her retrieve her sword and hunker down in a defensible position.  She knew full well that the FM would come after her ("a girl has been given a second chance.  There is no third.") 

She could have just thought that if she didn't fullfill her mission, she was out of the House Black and White and would be on her own.  Plenty of times she was offered the cure for her blindness and to leave if she acknowledged her name.  So when she decided to not kill Lady Crane, she retrieved Needle and obtained a new place to sleep.  Then she went about booking passage home.  Arya assumed that by not completing the mission, she was no longer allowed to live at House B/W.  I presume she didn't think that by rejecting House B/W, she would be killed.

[Knuckles]

8 hours ago, mac123x said:

Edmure is just as likely to be a captive of the Lannisters. 

The Freys hold Riverrun and will take Edmure as captive, once again. Though I expect them to execute him as he has outlived his usefulness to them.

The Lannister cells are in Casterly Rock, and no one is going to transport him there. The cells in KL are in the Sparrow's charge, so no chance of Jaime taking Edmure there. There was no evidence of any baby, or toddler as it has been a couple of years, no evidence that Roslyn ever gave birth. Jaime got his quick surrender from a weak Edmure by channeling Tywin, and like Twyin, has no further interest in his victim's future.

[EccentricLily]

I freely admit that Arya’s brazen parading of herself and her coin through the streets of Braavos irritated the heck out of me. How could they blow it so badly?

Having watched three times, this is all I can come up with: Arya made her decision to leave the guild of assassins, suspecting lethal resistance was likely. She was deliberately larking about Braavos with her bags of silver in order to smoke out the Waif and lure her back to her den…and Needle. And although the Waif was quicker and more deadly than a girl had anticipated, she ultimately managed to carry out her plan.

This was the outcome Jaqen was hoping for. The look of concern on his face as he followed the bloody trail in the House of Black and White told me that he was worried the new addition on the wall might actually be Arya’s. His little smile and subtle dip of the chin when she announced she was Arya Stark etc. gave me to believe this was his plan all along. 

I think he took a liking to Arya following his rescue by her in Westeros and decided the best way to assure her survival there was to hone her self-defense skills, at the same time conveniently facilitating her ability to check the names off her List. If there was a deeper reason, it’s beyond me. 

The Seven only know what Martin’s version will be, but Jaqen wasn’t even at the House of Black and White as far as I can remember.

(Now I’m wondering who the Waif was to begin with, but don’t suppose we’ll ever know. )

[stillshimpy]

You know, maybe it was just me on this, but when Jaime talks to Edmure about his son, it sounded like Edmure knew about him, even though he had never met him. 

So I didn't get the impression that the little boy was a fictional construct of any kind.  

The difference between how the show depicts prisoners being treated and how the books does is quite different.  Noble hostages generally aren't kept tethered to piles of their own excrement.  It's part of the reason Jaime apologizes to Edmure for how he has been treated and assures him he will receive better treatment going forward.  It's what Edmure could actually reasonably expect, at least at the start of his imprisonment.  It just wouldn't carry any weight now as a promise, with or without the added doubts about Jaime keeping his word about better treatment.  

As for whether or not Edmure is now more likely to simply be killed by the Freys, jeez, I think normally a family would worry about killing someone related to them via a child, but since rules of decent society don't tend to stop them: yes, it seems more likely that he's just going to be killed now, I think. 

[OhOkayWhat]

11 hours ago, mac123x said:

enough timeThereof ti

1.  ...... but it only seemed a day, maybe two at most.

3.  ..... She knew full well that the FM would come after her ("a girl has been given a second chance.  There is no third.")

5.  There was wet blood on the floor and dripping from the Waif's disembodied face.  That had to have happened within hours of Arya killing her.

1- Maybe it is more than 2 days, we don't know.

3- I suspect UnJaquen gave her much more than a single day to accomplish the mission. Therefore, Arya was thinking she had enough time (days even) before they notice she was rejecting the mission. She was careful with Neddle because she was just taking it out from a secret place in the open and hiding it again in a new place.

5-I agree with you on this, but again maybe she had access to the magic potions and weird bottles inside the House of Black and White before the last talk with UnJaquen.

Edited June 16, 2016 by OhOkayWhat

[OhOkayWhat]

1 hour ago, beetlebaum said:

I freely admit that Arya’s brazen parading of herself and her coin through the streets of Braavos irritated the heck out of me. How could they blow it so badly?

 

I have a theory about it. Imagine she went to the docks (or the place where the captains go to talk) and she decided to behave like this: looking around, talking with the captain with a very low voice.... the captain surely could be suspicious about her... is she a fugitive? who is following her? why she needs to change my itinerary? is it worth to risk my life for the money?.... instead of that, Arya decides to act for a few minutes like she owns the place, like a rich kid that thinks captains can change their itineraries if she has the right amount of money....that is way less suspicious, in fact, the captain surely knows people like her. Even if it does not work with him, she is not the fugitive looking for a passage, she can try with other captain.

Edited June 16, 2016 by OhOkayWhat

[paramitch]

One thing I've found fascinating about the theatrical troupe that I haven't really seen discussed at all, is what it reveals about how the players, common folk (and world?) see the events in King's Landing.

The people seemed sincerely moved by Joffrey's death and unaware that he was a monster (and equally unaware that his mother is a monster). Sansa was accepted as the murderer and villain of the piece. Even Lady Crane/Cersei's final scene with Joffrey was totally played tragically and straight, not with even a hint of all the other stuff we (and so many nobles) actually knew.

Also, FYI, but "milk of the poppy" didn't bother me since it's somewhat historically accurate to their level of medicine/tech (it's not heroin, but basically laudanum, an ingested opiate which was commonly used as far back as the 16th century).

One final observation: I have always felt that the "Jaquen" we saw training Arya the past few seasons was not in fact THE Jaquen (a fact borne out at the end of last season when in fact one of the Jaquens died, only to be replaced by yet another). 

The original Jaquen treated Arya with a subtle kindness, respect, and humor that has been -- I think deliberately -- missing from HOB&W Jaquen. Until this latest episode -- when the Jaquen who confronted Arya in the Hall of Faces was visibly warm and emotional with her, even vaguely proud.

I minded Arya's clumsily written injuries and healing, but I actually didn't mind Arya killing the Waif -- she used a skill we saw her acquire, and which I was able to believe the Waif did not in fact have herself (since Arya only acquired it as a punishment/penance and the Waif likely never needed to be punished to that degree). So that worked for me. 

Also, it's interesting to me that there is tangible magic in the HOB&W -- in the water, and in the faces. There seems to be something both physical and metaphysical in the Face magic, (since we have certainly seen multiple characters wear or acquire the Jaquen face without physical contact).

On 6/13/2016 at 8:01 AM, stillshimpy said:

I was so happy to see Beric, it actually startled me, because all he's really done in the series is sell Gendry like a goat, but I was actually happy to see the guy.  So there was that!   

I really like the actor who plays Beric. He's got a kind of humor and charisma to him that's a pleasant change from all the dour humorless types (i.e., most of the characters on the show).

On 6/13/2016 at 9:04 AM, sacrebleu said:

You mean like why the Waif didn't kill Arya when she killed Lady Crane, despite the fact that Arya was conveniently passed out in the next room, behind a curtain? Because that is just classic WTFery for the service of a chase scene, and a fight scene that took place entirely off screen, in the dark. 

Arya's injury and situation definitely bugged me for many reasons, but this aspect didn't -- I thought the Waif simply hadn't looked into the next room. The killing was so violent that it wasn't like she was going to stick around or nose through corridors.

On 6/13/2016 at 9:28 AM, glowbug said:

Mereen was mostly filler (Tyrion's lame banter with Grey Worm and Missandei was pointless) but it ended on a high note. I was so glad that Dany showed up this episode 

I actually liked the scene of Tyrion teasing Missandei and Grey Worm. I honestly wish the show gave us more of those kinds of moments -- the little human connections. Besides, Show Tyrion is a pretty social, charming person, and it's believable to me that he would attempt to befriend those around him.

For the same reason, I totally enjoyed the scenes between Jaime and Brienne, and (especially) between Pod and Bronn. (Basically, anytime anyone on this show smiles, I upgrade my mental rating of the episode by a full letter grade.)

Meanwhile, I admit I have no idea of what kind of emotion Emilia Clarke was trying to give us upon Dany's reentrance at the end there. Was she scared? Moved? Angry? Constipated? Disappointed? No idea.

On 6/13/2016 at 10:58 AM, iMonrey said:

Doesn't the House of Black and White have that little pool with magical healing water? Maybe Arya drank from that after killing the waif and sneaking back in?

That's what I thought too -- that as Arya had progressed enough to being able to drink from that pool without dying, that it also might restore her. 

On 6/13/2016 at 3:34 PM, scout1207 said:

This ^^. I have a feeling that this is what will finally break up Cersei and Jaime. That he risked his honor and reputation to stop the Mad King, and Cersei proceeds to try to blow up KL (possibly losing Tommen as well). If this is what the writers are planning, I think this is a much better character arc than him being disgusted by the fact she slept with Lancel (in the show) and the Kettleblacks (in the books).

I'm torn because I think this is probably going to happen, and while I like the symmetry of it (bringing Jaime back full circle to the Mad King, and in a situation filled with pretty rich and tragic irony, it does also oversimplify Jaime's situation and feelings for Cersei. Although I guess if he has to have a realization about her, I'd rather it be a sudden, blazing revelation of just what a monster she is, than moping over whatever many men she'd cheated on him with.

(Sorry about that awful awkward sentence but I'm too tired to fix it.)

On 6/13/2016 at 4:31 PM, Raachel2008 said:

Eh, but I don't think his feelings are divided in a romantic sense. There is some attraction there, sure, but I don't believe Jamie loves Brienne the way the loves or loved Cersei. As sick as it is, Cersei is the love of his life. I feel that with Brienne he sees something different than what he had his entire life, maybe the idea of that could have been if he had been born in a 'normal' family, if he had been able to make different choices, if he did make different choices. I dunno, I just don't see that big love story there. I see a lot of ifs, sexual atraction, friendship/comraderie and deep respect, but no truuuu wuuuv.

I disagree in a lot of ways. I absolutely think Jaime is in love with Brienne, and in a healthy way involving actual care and respect. But Jaime has no way to recognize that fact because when it comes to love, he's been so warped by Tywin and Cersei that he practically lives on another planet. He thinks his love for Cersei is something pure (when it's probably the thing that twisted him most away from the man he might have been), and that his feelings for Brienne are -- to me -- awkward, unfathomable, and vaguely shameful. He has no way of recognizing actual love.

The irony is that Brienne is in the same boat; she's an awkward woman with zero sexual experience who has been so starved for liking and respect that she has repeatedly pledged her life, basically, to anyone who was nice to her (luckily those have pretty much all been the good guys thus far). She had a crush on Renly and that's it. I think, for Brienne, recognizing her feelings for Jaime as love would almost be impossible (and I definitely believe voicing those feelings would be).

That's why the scene moved me. They were both mute, and awkward, and overly formal, and the whole time I was just falling all over myself because there they are, right next to each other, and with all those feelings, and yet the gulf is insurmountable because neither of them understands what they feel for each other, and so the moment is lost.

Sorry. Yearning is my Kryptonite. I'm a sucker for it every time.

Like many, I fear that that's all they are going to get. That the farewells between them were likely permanent. And I'm petrified that Brienne, Pod and perhaps Jaime will now be judged/harmed by the Hound and the BWOB in lieu of Lady Stoneheart (who I do not, do not, do not miss).

On 6/14/2016 at 0:49 PM, Haleth said:

If only the Blackfish had a few cows.

RUN AWAY!  Maybe that's how Jon defeats Ramsay -- the Giant throws a cow at him. Or even a whole herd!

[Oscirus]

On ‎6‎/‎14‎/‎2016 at 5:19 PM, OhOkayWhat said:

I have read the criticism about Arya story in the two last episodes in other boards, maybe it is the same here (i did not read all the pages), and some of it is correct, but also, we should consider a few points:

1) Arya recovery time is unknown.

2) Arya did NOT know the things audience knows: the Waif being a witness of Arya rejecting the mission.

3) Hiding Neddle is not the same than expecting an attack.

4) Arya needed to act like a rich kid while she was talking to the captain.

5) We do not know how much time went between Arya defeating Waif and Arya confronting Un-Jaquen.

 

1. Unless milk of poppy is a really strong sedative, Arya's recovery time was one night and even if it was over the course of a couple of days, that still wouldn't be enough time to recover from the wounds she received.

2. Arya knew that by refusing that hit she was signing her own death warrant and Lady Crane is a pretty  public figure. She had to have known that news of her failed attempt would be news. Regardless of whether or not the Waif witnessed it.

3. It's a sign that she knew that she was in danger.

4. Arya didn't need to act like anything. She had a lot of money.

5. There's two options: Either Arya's an idiot or she went to Jaquen as soon as she killed the Waif to try and squash the beef that she had with the FM.
 

Quote

 

She could have just thought that if she didn't fullfill her mission, she was out of the House Black and White and would be on her own.  Plenty of times she was offered the cure for her blindness and to leave if she acknowledged her name.  So when she decided to not kill Lady Crane, she retrieved Needle and obtained a new place to sleep.  Then she went about booking passage home.  Arya assumed that by not completing the mission, she was no longer allowed to live at House B/W.  I presume she didn't think that by rejecting House B/W, she would be killed.

 

Jaquen made it pretty clear to her that if she didn't complete that hit that she was a dead woman. There's no way that she should've thought something like that.

[Oscirus]

The weird thing is that I'm not even all that bothered over that Arya nonsense. If the writers want to  be lazy and force the audience to come up with fantastical theories to justify their shitty writing then so be it.

I'm not even bothered by the fact that the Cersei and HS fight has been reduced to a road runner/wil e coyote cartoon, the only difference being that Cersei's weapon is likely to be successful.

I'm willing to ignore that Hound's revenge story devolved into a few funny one liners and was instantly resolved afterwards.

Hell, I can even take Dany coming in at the last minute and saving everybody's ass which was expedited by the masters not acting in their own self interests.

What I can't take is the fact that I still haven't heard what happened when Tyrion took a jackass and a honeycomb into a whore house.  The masters can go to hell for interrupting that. If Dany chooses to cruficy them, I'll fully support her decision this time around.

[Gertrude]

I can see the argument that Arya walking up to the ship captain and being so brazen was an act for him to ask no questions. What ruins that for me is that she takes the time to stare like a tourist at the Titan and the look on her face when approached by the old woman was mild curiosity instead of being on guard.

The scenes with Tyrion and Grey Worm/Missi - I get what the writers were trying. I agree that the show needs more human moments and this was not a bad idea. It's the execution that I had issues with. I thought the writing was bad and awkward. Not intentionally awkward (as it was meant to be), just bad. It didn't make me smile once.

I liked the Hound scenes. As much as I am not a fan of vengeful Hound and am scratching my head at the BwB heading North, the dialogue was good and felt natural. It had actual humor that felt in character for all. This scene did make me smile. Compare that to the Meereen scenes, which I thought fit the in universe story better, but fell flat when they actually opened their mouths.

[mac123x]

1 hour ago, Gertrude said:

The scenes with Tyrion and Grey Worm/Missi - I get what the writers were trying. I agree that the show needs more human moments and this was not a bad idea. It's the execution that I had issues with. I thought the writing was bad and awkward. Not intentionally awkward (as it was meant to be), just bad. It didn't make me smile once.

It took me a while to figure out what they were going for in that scene.  I too appreciate the human moments (like when Brienne told Sansa that Arya wasn’t dressed like a lady and Sansa chuckled a bit) but this one didn’t work.

 

What was supposed to happen:

1.  Grey Worm says he doesn’t know any jokes.

2.  Tyrion tells a funny joke, but it falls flat because it’s based on Westerosi stereotypes and Missandei and Grey Worm don’t have the context.

3.  Missandei tells a bad joke and it falls flat because it’s a bad joke.  Grey Worm tells her it's the worst joke he's ever heard.

4.  Grey Worm says that his initial “I don’t know any jokes” was a joke.  The viewers laugh.

 

What actually happened:

1.  Grey Worm says he doesn’t know any jokes.

2.  Tyrion told a bad joke.  It fell flat with Missandei and Grey Worm because they don’t have the context.  It fell flat with the viewers because it didn’t really make sense.  (The punchline was that the Stark yelled at the fly to spit out any ale it had drunk, I guess because he wanted to drink it himself, but since the Starks haven’t been portrayed as particularly boozy, it didn’t make a lot of sense.  Maybe I’m misinterpreting the punch line.  Anyone have a better read on it?)

3.  Missandei tells a bad joke and it falls flat because it’s a bad joke.

4.  Grey Worm says that his initial “I don’t know any jokes” was a joke.  No one laughs because he only has one acting mode:  “earnestly uptight”.  Also, he came across as almost berating when he told Missandei that her joke was bad.

[Misplaced]

47 minutes ago, mac123x said:

2.  Tyrion told a bad joke.  It fell flat with Missandei and Grey Worm because they don’t have the context.  It fell flat with the viewers because it didn’t really make sense.  (The punchline was that the Stark yelled at the fly to spit out any ale it had drunk, I guess because he wanted to drink it himself, but since the Starks haven’t been portrayed as particularly boozy, it didn’t make a lot of sense.  Maybe I’m misinterpreting the punch line.  Anyone have a better read on it?)

Hmm ...it's actually a joke about England, Ireland and Scotland (or at least when I heard it I said - wait - I've heard that before and it is a joke about England, Ireland and Scotland).  To wit: England is a poncy git that demands a new pot of ale for a stupid fly; Ireland will drink anything no matter what's been in it, and Scotland is such a miser it will force the fly to choke up the ale because the Scot paid for it, damn all of ye.*

*Didn't say it was a good, or accurate joke....  

**Also, it's not surprising it wouldn't have made a lot of sense to a US audience.

Edited June 16, 2016 by Misplaced
Adding postscripts ...

[Oscirus]

Quote

The punchline was that the Stark yelled at the fly to spit out any ale it had drunk, I guess because he wanted to drink it himself, but since the Starks haven’t been portrayed as particularly boozy, it didn’t make a lot of sense.  Maybe I’m misinterpreting the punch line.  Anyone have a better read on it?)

The punchline is that the Stark have such a strong sense of honor that they refuse to let anyone or anything steal what's not theirs. Even a mere fly.

Not a funny joke, but it makes sense

[mac123x]

3 hours ago, Misplaced said:

Hmm ...it's actually a joke about England, Ireland and Scotland (or at least when I heard it I said - wait - I've heard that before and it is a joke about England, Ireland and Scotland).  To wit: England is a poncy git that demands a new pot of ale for a stupid fly; Ireland will drink anything no matter what's been in it, and Scotland is such a miser it will force the fly to choke up the ale because the Scot paid for it, damn all of ye.*

I wondered why Tyrion was affecting a bad Scottish accent for the Stark character, despite the Starks being portrayed with Northern England accents not Scots.  Of course, when one has to explain the joke, that's the definition of "not funny".

[Cherpumple]

Also, I would expect Tyrion to be smarter than to make a Westeros-specific in-joke to two people who have clearly never been there and expect them to understand it. He's usually much better at "reading the room" but I guess this is just another way to show that he's out of his element in Essos and that he may not be as clever as we originally were led to believe.

[paigow]

21 minutes ago, Cherpumple said:

Also, I would expect Tyrion to be smarter than to make a Westeros-specific in-joke to two people who have clearly never been there and expect them to understand it. He's usually much better at "reading the room" but I guess this is just another way to show that he's out of his element in Essos and that he may not be as clever as we originally were led to believe.

His eunuch material has already bombed. Dothrakis? Slavers? If he tried to "search and replace" his jokes with them, the results might be worse.  

[Cherpumple]

Egads, I forgot about the terrible eunuch jokes. He's really off his game in Essos!

[ParadoxLost]

15 hours ago, paramitch said:

I'm torn because I think this is probably going to happen, and while I like the symmetry of it (bringing Jaime back full circle to the Mad King, and in a situation filled with pretty rich and tragic irony, it does also oversimplify Jaime's situation and feelings for Cersei. Although I guess if he has to have a realization about her, I'd rather it be a sudden, blazing revelation of just what a monster she is, than moping over whatever many men she'd cheated on him with.

I don't think Jamie would come to any realization because he will look for any excuse, even flimsy, to cleave to Cersei.  And the show gave him one.  That's why they got rid of trial by combat.  Now Cersei can use 'but they would have killed me' as an excuse/justification for anything she does. 

Edited June 16, 2016 by ParadoxLost

[nodorothyparker]

1 hour ago, Cherpumple said:

Also, I would expect Tyrion to be smarter than to make a Westeros-specific in-joke to two people who have clearly never been there and expect them to understand it. He's usually much better at "reading the room" but I guess this is just another way to show that he's out of his element in Essos and that he may not be as clever as we originally were led to believe.

As much as I no longer care about anyone in the Meereen crew or Tyrion and his continual attempts at a getting to know you cocktail hour, it also drives home once again that excepting Tyrion, not one person now in Team Dany has ever been to Westeros or knows the first thing about it despite planning eventually to conquer and rule it.

[SeanC]

56 minutes ago, Cherpumple said:

Egads, I forgot about the terrible eunuch jokes. He's really off his game in Essos!

He made those in King's Landing too, though.

[paigow]

16 minutes ago, SeanC said:

He made those in King's Landing too, though.

But not in front of killing machines like Grey Worm that would really get offended

[gwhh]

Funny as heck analyst of this episode:

 

[gwhh]

On June 14, 2016 at 11:13 AM, stillshimpy said:

Seriously, all it takes is a line from Lady Crane about how Arya was very lucky, the wounds weren't deep because her vest blunted the blade and absorbed the blows.  Instead the Waif stabs Arya in a manner reminiscent of Talisa being stabbed to death in the baby and then runs through the streets fueled by narcotics and blood loss.  Then shows up to talk to Jaquen without so much as a limp or a strange pallor.  

I'm willing to believe a lot of strange stuff.  That the Children of the Forest made the White Walkers to try and stop man.  That the same Children of the Forest had sap grenades secreted about their persons.  Truly, all a fantasy story has to do is hang some damned framework around a mystical construct and I'm not a tough sell.  

In Arya's case they showed her being stabbed in a manner that killed another character.  Then she went sprinting around Bravos and managed to kill The Waif -- who for some reason didn't avail herself of the opportunity to murder Arya at the same time she killed Lady Crane, because she wanted Arya to have a sporting chance.   Throw me a damned bone, Story.  Have her eat some fucking Wheaties at the very, very least.  Instead she had Heroin Juice and then body surfed down the cobble stones with only some fruit for cushioning. 

That is the sense I've gotten also.  It isn't so much that they really dislike Jaime's character arc as much as book Cersei is a bunch of misogynist cliches rolled into one.  A beautiful woman who is manipulative, uses sex as a tool, resents not being a man and is an evil Queen.  Aside from the brother-fucking book Cersei is essentially formed of the stuff of an old-time-animated Disney Queen/Villain.    

I just wish that in adding something other than the most shallow and perfunctory of character developments to Cersei, that they hadn't robbed Jaime to pay Cersei in this instance.  The thing is, show Cersei is still evil, still deceitful, still manipulative and still stupid in many of the same ways book Cersei was, so there was actually no need to just throw away Jaime's characterization in service of expanding Cersei's characterization.  

I do agree that's what they did though and that it wasn't about disliking Jaime's characterization as much as it was finding Book Cersei's material to be very thin.  

I think they are trying to show Arya has near supernatural levels of physical and inner strength.   So you better not stand in her way or you going to lose.  They are setting it up for latter in the series. to show how she going to able to kick butt on a whole new level.  

OR

they just wrote that part badly. 

[Lemuria]

50 minutes ago, gwhh said:

 

On 6/14/2016 at 11:13 AM, stillshimpy said:

 

I think they are trying to show Arya has near supernatural levels of physical and inner strength.   So you better not stand in her way or you going to lose.  They are setting it up for latter in the series. to show how she going to able to kick butt on a whole new level.  

OR

they just wrote that p

 

Hmmm.  Which one of those do you think William of Occam would pick?  lol

(I apologize for the extra lines and spaces in the quoted area but I haven't been able to figure out how to remove some things that get pulled in or, for that matter, how to delete an entire post and start over.  TechDinosaur over here!)

[Fishslap]

On 6/13/2016 at 5:20 PM, MrWhyt said:

it's an adaptation not a recreation.

But season one wasn't an adaptation. It was almost word for word like the book it was based on. If you have seen the TV show season 1, reading book 1 would be the most boring activity ever, because nearly everything is the same. GoT only became an adaptation later when they decided to make some warped feminist statement with Brienne, and even that didn't derail until after she got Jaime to KL. But the rest of the show quickly deteriorated after that decision: dead Stannis killed by someone who should be dead, Sansa marrying Bolton to make another feminist statement, no Stoneheart and Berric still alive instead, Dorne a very embarrassing sideshow, Blackfish killed off when we know he's alive and so on.. Once you've taken a dump on the story you're telling it gets easier to do it again, and in worse ways. I'm not going to apologize for not liking it. And it started with Brienne.

I mean back to the Incredible Feminist Hulk: Jaime is most definitely not in love with her in the books. He simply pities her and probably admires her honor while at the same time finding it utterly contemptible. The whole waving at each other thing was like the last scene in ET here.

Edited June 18, 2016 by Fishslap

[MrWhyt]

1 minute ago, Fishslap said:

But season one wasn't an adaptation. It was almost word for word like the book it was based on. If you have seen the TV show season 1, reading book 1 would be the most boring activity ever, because nearly everything is the same. 

it's always been an adaptation, that is why there is a "based on A Song of Ice and Fire by George R. R. Martin" credit in the title sequence.

Quote

because nearly everything is the same. 

nearly everything, so not everything, so the writers had to adapt the book to the screen. Ergo, an adaptation not a recreation.

Quote

 I'm not going to apologize for not liking it.

you don't have to apologize, if you don't like it, you don't like it. It's just ridiculous (IMO) to expect the books to be recreated perfectly with a TV series with a limited budget and limited hours per year.

Quote

Once you've taken a dump on the story you're telling it gets easier to do it again

they're not dumping on their story, they're telling it. The TV show is D&D's story.

[Constantinople]

Some people are wondering how Beric or Thoros knew that

Quote

Cold winds are rising in the North.

It's possible that Maester Aemon deserves the credit.

At the end of Season 3, after Sam returned to Castle Black with Gilly, the following exchange took place.

Quote

Sam: We didn't build 500 miles of ice walls, 700 feet high to keep out men. The night is gathering, Maester Aemon. I've seen it. It's coming for all of us. 

Maester Aemon:  Gilly, you and your son will be our guests for the time being. We certainly cannot send you back beyond the Wall. 

Gilly: Thank you... Maester. I can cook and clean and I can

Maester Aemon: Good. Samwell, fetch a quill and inkwell. I hope your penmanship is better than your swordplay.

Sam: Miles better. We had 44 ravens at last count.

Maester Aemon: Make sure they're all fed. Every one of them flies tonight.

We don't know exactly what Maester Aemon had Sam write, but we do know that one of those ravens flew to Dragonstone, and we know how Davos and Melisandre described the message to Stannis.

Quote

Davos: It's from Maester Aemon of the Night's Watch. Their Lord Commander is dead. Took a ranging party north and never made it back. One lad did, though. What he saw beyond the Wall-- it's coming for all of us.

Quote

Melisandre: Death marches on the Wall.

Presumably, Maester Aemon didn't send a raven to the Brotherhood Without Banners, but it's likely some of those ravens were sent to lords in the Riverlands.  The Brotherhood may have heard second or third-hand reports about the contents of one of those messages.

Edited June 18, 2016 by Constantinople

[Bill1978]

2 hours ago, Fishslap said:

dead Stannis killed by someone who should be dead,

I thought Brienne killed Stannis in the show and that she is alive in the books. Or have I read this statement totally incorrect?

[GrailKing]

So is this a GOOF!

http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/production-diary/sansas-letter-to-blackfish

Or did Sansa actually write it for Edmure?

Edited June 18, 2016 by GrailKing