S02.E07: Shiva

[The Mighty Peanut]

4 hours ago, spiderpig said:

I'm having a senior moment.  Who was Tobias?

I thought Tobias was the name of the high school student who told Madison society was about to fall and to hurry up and arm herself because the government wasn't trustworthy. I may have that wrong as my life is pretty much just a series of senior moments. He wasn't ever meant to be a long term character but I found him more interesting than most of the main cast. 

Edited May 26, 2016 by The Mighty Peanut

[spiderpig]

2 minutes ago, The Mighty Peanut said:

I thought Tobias was the name of the high school student who told Madison society was about to fall and to hurry up and arm herself because the government wasn't trustworthy. I may have that wrong as my life is pretty much just a series of senior moments. He wasn't ever meant to be a long term character but I find him more interesting than most of the main cast. 

That's it. Thanks, Peanut. No wonder we never saw Tobias again. He actually had a functioning brain.

[The Mighty Peanut]

It really is pretty bad with Maddie's face. And the one with the three of them is like the Duh family reunion. 

[spiderpig]

Mr. pig liked Kim in Deadwood, but in this series she's as compelling as a tree stump. (No offense to tree stumps.)

That squint and jutting jaw are getting on my nerves.

Edited May 26, 2016 by spiderpig

[TVFan17]

10 hours ago, Nashville said:

 

 

As has already been pointed out - we didn't actually SEE Daniel go all crispy critter....

 

 

 

And as I already pointed out the last time someone pointed that out to me ;) -- I said seemingly.   I used the word "seemingly" in my comment for a reason.  It seemed like Daniel was dying.  I know how TWD works, so I know what can be expected from FTWD too.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Sherry67

[heisenberg]

They should rename this show "Fear the walking jerks"...

[phoenix780]

6 hours ago, heisenberg said:

They should rename this show "Fear the walking jerks"...

Well if the mothership title can refer to that fearless crew, this one certainly can.  

Madison's face in the show has bugged me.  Somehow, seeing it in screenshots I read it differently.  She's all "ugh, what is this bullshit now" or "are you fucking kidding me," and I kind of appreciate that.  Like the zombie apocalypse (and, well, everything) is nothing more than an annoyance.  

I can relate, because those are my feelings when watching the show.

[maczero]

18 hours ago, phoenix780 said:

Well if the mothership title can refer to that fearless crew, this one certainly can.  

Madison's face in the show has bugged me.  Somehow, seeing it in screenshots I read it differently.  She's all "ugh, what is this bullshit now" or "are you fucking kidding me," and I kind of appreciate that.  Like the zombie apocalypse (and, well, everything) is nothing more than an annoyance.  

I can relate, because those are my feelings when watching the show.

Yeah, I don't really side with those that say Maddie suffers from chronic resting bitch face.  There's not a whole lot to smile about during the apocalypse.  However, I will admit situations that should be terrifying seem to only garner a "not this shit again" look from Maddie.

[Nashville]

On 5/26/2016 at 0:43 PM, Sherry67 said:

And as I already pointed out the last time someone pointed that out to me ;) -- I said seemingly.   I used the word "seemingly" in my comment for a reason.  It seemed like Daniel was dying.  I know how TWD works, so I know what can be expected from FTWD too.

Excuse, please - I was playing several day's worth of catch-up.

 

6 minutes ago, maczero said:

Yeah, I don't really side with those that say Maddie suffers from chronic resting bitch face.  There's not a whole lot to smile about during the apocalypse.  However, I will admit situations that should be terrifying seem to only garner a "not this shit again" look from Maddie.

Every time I see Maddie's expression I'm reminded of Gregory Peck in To Kill A Mockingbird, right before he has to shoot the rabid dog. 

Any chance Maddie's been walking around with an undiagnosed case of lockjaw for the duration of the series?

[xaxat]

I hope they got the grave digging scene on the first shot. Because that was no CGI and Coleman Domingo was doing work!

[oakville]

On ‎5‎/‎24‎/‎2016 at 4:26 PM, Raven1707 said:

The Sunday Cable Ratings are in for "Shiva":

The halfway point of "Fear the Walking Dead" drew a 1.9, even with the previous week. [4.388 million viewers]

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2016/05/24/sunday-cable-ratings-may-22-2016/

 

And here are the Live + SD ratings for Season 2 so far:

04-10-16 “Monster” 6.674 million
04-17-16 “We All Fall Down” 5.581 million
04-24-16 “Ouroboros” 4.726 million
05-01-16 “Blood on the Streets” 4.803 million
05-08-16 “Captive” 4.414 million
05-15-16 “Sicut Cervus” 4.486 million
05-22-16 “Shiva” 4.388 million

The show's ratings decline from the season premiere should be a warning to shows writers.

[BasilSeal]

On 26/05/2016 at 8:23 AM, Nashville said:

On the plus side, it's kinda nice to see FTWD continue its progenitor's trope of finding a secure stable community with definite long-term longevity potential - and burning it to the ground in short order.

 Yes, there's a definite pattern emerging there. Dysfunctional family, family members are all annoying people you'd cross the road to avoid, (but the mum is kind of hot and you still probably would), they travel around the US doing daft things and getting into hot water, leaving everywhere they visit in smoking ruins before moving on to do the same at the next place. These people are The Grizwolds and this is National Lampoons zombie vacation, You see, next episode Travis will dress in lederhosen  and do the face slapping dance with some comedy German zombies.

[spiderpig]

8 hours ago, BasilSeal said:

 Yes, there's a definite pattern emerging there. Dysfunctional family, family members are all annoying people you'd cross the road to avoid, (but the mum is kind of hot and you still probably would), they travel around the US doing daft things and getting into hot water, leaving everywhere they visit in smoking ruins before moving on to do the same at the next place. These people are The Grizwolds and this is National Lampoons zombie vacation, You see, next episode Travis will dress in lederhosen  and do the face slapping dance with some comedy German zombies.

Now I'd pay to see that.

[oakville]

11 hours ago, BasilSeal said:

 Yes, there's a definite pattern emerging there. Dysfunctional family, family members are all annoying people you'd cross the road to avoid, (but the mum is kind of hot and you still probably would), they travel around the US doing daft things and getting into hot water, leaving everywhere they visit in smoking ruins before moving on to do the same at the next place. These people are The Grizwolds and this is National Lampoons zombie vacation, You see, next episode Travis will dress in lederhosen  and do the face slapping dance with some comedy German zombies.

I find it frustrating to watch them repeat the same mistakes as the TWD. Why couldn't they leave the compound without burning it down. Mexico is a big country. There is no need to destroy every place they visit. This family wrecked their own neighborhood by opening the gates & letting a thousand zombies escape from the arena to attack the military compound. Then they visit a family  on a remote island & end up getting the daughter & mom killed. Now, they burn down  a compound that produces wine.

[Ohwell]

12 hours ago, BasilSeal said:

These people are The Grizwolds and this is National Lampoons zombie vacation,

I'm cracking up right now.  Tears in my eyes.  

[Raven1707]

The Live +3 Ratings are in for "Shiva":

"Fear the Walking Dead" also grew by 1.1 points (1.9 to 3.0). [6.663 million viewers]

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2016/05/29/cable-live-3-ratings-may-16-22-2016/

And here are the Live +SD ratings, plus the Live +3 ratings for Season 2 so far:

04-10-16 “Monster” 6.674 million; Live +3 8.826 million
04-17-16 “We All Fall Down” 5.581 million; Live +3 7.781 million
04-24-16 “Ouroboros” 4.726 million; Live +3 6.995 million
05-01-16 “Blood on the Streets” 4.803 million; Live + 3 6.958 million
05-08-16 “Captive” 4.414 million; Live +3 6.924 million
05-15-16 “Sicut Cervus” 4.486 million; Live +3 6.784 million
05-22-16 “Shiva” 4.388 million; Live +3 6.663 million

Edited May 29, 2016 by Raven1707

[Jordan27]

I defended this show in S1 with the slow start as the S1 finale was reasonably good. 

But, this season has been downhill since the opening ep. 

And the S2 finale was plain awful.  What are the writers thinking.  That was sad.

Strand and Salazar were the only two good characters and they turned them both into wusses this episode. 

None of the scenes made any sense and the character's actions were laughable.

Most of you have detailed most of the nonsense, but my take on a couple of things...

1.  Dad decided to hunt for son in the dark without shoes.  Where is the son going to go?  At what point in time with feet bleeding would one say I need to go back and get some shoes?

2.  Maddie telling everyone to get their stuff together and let's make a quick getaway even though even Celia had already asked them to leave.  She made it seem like they were being held captive.

3. Nick deciding he liked Celia, the walker cultist, more than his mom and family.  Plus, he's like Lizzie playing with walkers.

What a disappointing show.  Easily the worst finale of the season. 

I hope they make them some changes next season.  Perhaps, some new writers.  This season wasn't much better than Under The Dome, which was only worth watching for snarkiness.

I have a new name for the show.... Fear Season 3. 

[Muffyn]

Between this show and Containment I am starting to think the human race is too damn stupid to survive..

[Nashville]

12 hours ago, Muffyn said:

Between this show and Containment I am starting to think the human race is too damn stupid to survive..

I've thought that ever since Duhbya got elected to a second term - but hey, maybe that's just me.  ;>

[slf]

When Strand was laying it out for Maddison how Celia got her hooks in Nick, was that Strand admitting to using Nick too? God, I hope so. Someone like Strand adopting a barely-out-of-his-teens drug addict because he 'knows how to survive' on account of the fact that he's a drug addict? It was just so stupid. So I do hope that, while Strand has likely come to like and respect Nick after spending so much time with him, that was him admitting to manipulating and using the kid.

[EyesGlazed]

Excuse me for being slow on the uptake, but I never got why Celia poisoned all those parishioners.  What was her problem with them?

Also:  why didn't we see her get eaten?

[slf]

Just now, EyesGlazed said:

Excuse me for being slow on the uptake, but I never got why Celia poisoned all those parishioners.  What was her problem with them?

Also:  why didn't we see her get eaten?

Because they wanted to kill the walkers. So she took them out before they could.

[EyesGlazed]

Thanks slf.  That is cooooooold.

[izabella]

On 5/29/2016 at 1:57 PM, oakville said:

I find it frustrating to watch them repeat the same mistakes as the TWD. Why couldn't they leave the compound without burning it down. Mexico is a big country. There is no need to destroy every place they visit. This family wrecked their own neighborhood by opening the gates & letting a thousand zombies escape from the arena to attack the military compound.

To be fair, this was all Daniel.  He lit the fire.  He let the 1000 zombies loose and led them to the military medical center.

[raven]

Quote

Dysfunctional family, family members are all annoying people you'd cross the road to avoid, (but the mum is kind of hot and you still probably would), they travel around the US doing daft things and getting into hot water, leaving everywhere they visit in smoking ruins before moving on to do the same at the next place. These people are The Grizwolds and this is National Lampoons zombie vacation,

LOL, yeah I wish this show didn't follow the pattern of WD with this.  It's tiring on that show and will get tiresome here also.

I actually like Travis and respect him going after Chris and staying with him.  The non-shoes and non-Spanish were silly and obviously set up to show Chris is OMG HOLDING A HOSTAGE but I like Cliff Curtis's portrayal of Travis and am interested in him and Chris.  Alicia I can take or leave (same with Maddie and Strand TBH).  I was sorry to see Daniel's descent to the crazy but I guess he finally broke, which is too bad because I liked him. 

I can understand Maddie locking Celia away, it's like locking up Nick's drug supplier.  Nick I'm still interested in, he doesn't feel part of his family and really thinks that he is so special and understands the zombies like no one else.  He's kind of a narcissist.  I don't think the show is ready to get rid of him yet so I wonder what will be in store for him.

It looks like we'll get the usual WD road trip with Maddie, Strand, Alicia & Ofelia so I'm more interested in Nick, Travis and Chris right now.  I like the show OK but it's one I wait to watch plus I have to be comfy for Penny Dreadful at 10. 

[oakville]

4 hours ago, izabella said:

To be fair, this was all Daniel.  He lit the fire.  He let the 1000 zombies loose and led them to the military medical center.

Daniel set fire to the  Mexican compound, but who left the gate open in their own neighborhood? I remember Ophelia or Alicia saying that was a bad idea, but Madison said the neighbors never did anything for them when Nick was sent into detention.

[Jordan27]

On ‎5‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 3:43 PM, Muffyn said:

Between this show and Containment I am starting to think the human race is too damn stupid to survive..

Containment is really a bad show.  Even FTWD is better. 

[heisenberg]

On 2016-05-29 at 3:10 AM, BasilSeal said:

"These people are The Grizwolds and this is National Lampoons zombie vacation"

Yes!  You nailed it!

[Sunnydayman]

On June 1, 2016 at 2:45 PM, izabella said:

To be fair, this was all Daniel.  He lit the fire.  He let the 1000 zombies loose and led them to the military medical center.

Daniel was an evil bastard.  I'm glad (hope) he is gone for good.  I'm also not a fan of the destruction left in their wake.  Nick said they help people but there are less living people in every instance after their help. 

Edited June 3, 2016 by Sunnydayman

[BasilSeal]

On 03/06/2016 at 3:46 AM, Sunnydayman said:

Daniel was an evil bastard.  I'm glad (hope) he is gone for good.

arguably he isn't evil because if he were then he wouldn't have a conscience, and be haunted by the metaphorical ghosts of his victims. He's suffering from PTSD with psychotic episodes and flash backs to when, as a small child, he was forced to kill a man. He initially tells us in the first series that when he saw the bodies in the river as a child, he made a choice not to be the victim, but when we actually see what happened we see that he actually had no choice, and as he correctly identifies, the first victim is him.

[Sunnydayman]

15 hours ago, BasilSeal said:

arguably he isn't evil because if he were then he wouldn't have a conscience, and be haunted by the metaphorical ghosts of his victims. He's suffering from PTSD with psychotic episodes and flash backs to when, as a small child, he was forced to kill a man. He initially tells us in the first series that when he saw the bodies in the river as a child, he made a choice not to be the victim, but when we actually see what happened we see that he actually had no choice, and as he correctly identifies, the first victim is him.

Daniel's released an arena full of zombies and burned down the hacienda/villa.  He is responsible for the deaths most of the remaining humans that we have seen so far.  He could have joined Killers Anonymous if he was truly sorry.  He wouldn't even confess his crimes to the mass murdering housekeeper.  Those two would have made a great couple.

[Ohwell]

I don't care about trauma he suffered as a kid, Daniel is an evil bastard and needs to get slowly eaten.  

[Gulftastic]

Finally remembered to watch. Wish I hadn't bothered. I've never seen a show so full of utter morons in my life that wasn't a comedy.

[BasilSeal]

On 05/06/2016 at 7:19 AM, Sunnydayman said:

Daniel's released an arena full of zombies and burned down the hacienda/villa.  He is responsible for the deaths most of the remaining humans that we have seen so far.

This is kind of the point though, in the world of TWD one survives at the expense of others, it isn't possible to save everybody, because all the survivors are competing for limited resources. The Grizwolds are doing nicely on their luxury Yacht, but if they stop and help all the people the find drifting helplessly round the ocean then they'll lose their advantage, and it's quite likely that one of the people they try to help will show their gratitude by taking the Abigail from them in order that they and their family might survive instead. Those who want to survive in this world need to put themselves and their family before other entirely innocent people. the function of the character of Daniel in the narrative is to show us the ultimate consequences of making such choices because he has made a similar choice in the old world, and is literally someone who chose to survive by hurting others.

Daniel didn't torture people simply because he was evil, it's a choice he makes in order to survive, and to ensure the survival of his family. It's not a pleasant choice, or one that could be excused in any way, but it's the type of choice that characters in this show and TWD original make all the time.

[Raven1707]

The Cable Live +7 Ratings are in for "Shiva":

"Game of Thrones" and "Fear the Walking Dead" tied for the top spot in adults 18-49 gains in the Live +7 ratings for May 16-22. Both shows grew by 1.4 points in the demo. [to 3.3]

The two series nearly tied in the viewer gains as well, with "Thrones" (2.76 million viewers added) narrowly beating "Fear" (2.74 million added). [7.128 million viewers]

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2016/06/06/cable-live-7-ratings-may-16-22-2016/

And here are the Live +SD, Live +3, and Live +7 ratings for Season 2 so far:

04-10-16 “Monster” 6.674 million; Live +3 8.826 million; Live +7 9.405 million
04-17-16 “We All Fall Down” 5.581 million; Live +3 7.781 million; Live +7 8.325 million
04-24-16 “Ouroboros” 4.726 million; Live +3 6.995 million; Live +7 7.476 million
05-01-16 “Blood on the Streets” 4.803 million; Live + 3 6.958 million; Live +7 7.408 million
05-08-16 “Captive” 4.414 million; Live +3 6.924 million; not available
05-15-16 “Sicut Cervus” 4.486 million; Live +3 6.784 million; Live +7 7.292 million
05-22-16 “Shiva” 4.388 million; Live +3 6.663 million; Live +7 7.128 million

[Scaeva]

This show is fucking terrible.

[Sofinn]

It tells something that it took me +2 weeks to watch this episode. I mean, I watched it at once but wasn't bothered to watch it earlier. And it took some wine.

One thing that bothered me the most. Alicias hair! So perfectly done.. right after Chris tried to "kill" her. Yeah. No.

[Nashville]

5 hours ago, Sofinn said:

It tells something that it took me +2 weeks to watch this episode. I mean, I watched it at once but wasn't bothered to watch it earlier. And it took some wine.

One thing that bothered me the most. Alicias hair! So perfectly done.. right after Chris tried to "kill" her. Yeah. No.

Yeah, well... but HIS hair was a mess, at least.

;>

[Muffyn]

And now we know that in the ZA women will automatically get highlights and blow outs.  Men will forget how to wash or comb their hair.  I guess it's due to whatever causes the infection to all people, living and dead.  Heck, I'm surprised female appearing zombies don't look freshly coiffed. 

[Misty79]

Just caught up with the finale, and although I agree it was a hot mess, I did like that the relationship between Strand and Maddie is becoming a focal point. 

[Nashville]

5 hours ago, Misty79 said:

Just caught up with the finale, and although I agree it was a hot mess, I did like that the relationship between Strand and Maddie is becoming a focal point. 

...and thank God it's not a romantic relationship.  If I were to see Strand and Maddie making out, I think little bitty parts of my soul would start to die - crushed, no doubt, under the relentless pressure of her unyielding jaw.

[seacliffsal]

Okay, yesterday I broke down and binge watched the entire second season (thus far).  What a mess...

Every story line from this season seems like it was ripped directly from TWD.  Someone going crazy (Shane = Daniel); child who should not be around others (Lizzie = Chris); people who put their family in a locked holding area which will later burn down (Hershel = Celia); thinking one might be better off alone (Carol  = Nick); etc.  Only, this crew seems to be far worse than Rick and co. in terms of only looking out for themselves.  As noted above, this is the family who left the gate open so zombies could invade their neighborhood and Daniel released zombies who had been locked up so he could find his wife.  However, Madison's level of entitlement has never been a part of TWD.  Making demands on the boat, regarding the park ranger's kids, Celia, etc.  Here's a life lesson-if you don't like the rules of the people who are helping you...go somewhere else.

Not sure if I'll watch the second half of the season.  I binge watched as I felt like maybe I should have given it a chance this season.  We shall se.

[Ohwell]

I agree with your post except for this part:

1 hour ago, seacliffsal said:

 However, Madison's level of entitlement has never been a part of TWD.  Making demands on the boat, regarding the park ranger's kids, Celia, etc.  Here's a life lesson-if you don't like the rules of the people who are helping you...go somewhere else.

I thought Rick :& Co. on TWD were notoriously demanding and condescending when they got to Alexandria.  Sure, the Alexandrians weren't nearly as ready for the ZA as Rick & Co., but instead of going somewhere else because they didn't like the rules, they stayed and wreaked havoc on the place.  If Rick & Co. hadn't stayed there, the Alexandrians at least would have had a peaceful life before they were finally taken over by the zombies.   

This is no defense of the clowns on FTWD though.

[rab01]

On 7/23/2016 at 3:54 PM, Ohwell said:

I thought Rick :& Co. on TWD were notoriously demanding and condescending when they got to Alexandria.  Sure, the Alexandrians weren't nearly as ready for the ZA as Rick & Co., but instead of going somewhere else because they didn't like the rules, they stayed and wreaked havoc on the place.  If Rick & Co. hadn't stayed there, the Alexandrians at least would have had a peaceful life before they were finally taken over by the zombies.   

Yup, the Ricktatorship was very condescending and demanding but it bothered me less than Maddie because I felt like Rick was viewing them as a wolf views its potential prey.  If he didn't like the Alexandrians, he was going to take what he needed because he needed it, not because he was entitled to it. Maddie's version of smug (when paired with the actor's stone face) just rubs on my last nerve like nails on a chalkboard.

[Ohwell]

Oh, believe me, I'm not defending Maddie and her stone face at all.  I know it won't happen, but I pray for her to be zombie chow.

[shrewd.buddha]

On 5/23/2016 at 3:43 AM, Lii said:

Did Celia even die in the walker cage? I didn't see her there when Daniel went to start the fire. You'd think they'd have showed her.

 

Quote

This is just crappy, ambiguous storytelling. Damn it, show Celia and Daniel dead if they are dead. 

Celia's fate was not clear at all.  Did Daniel set the fire  in the same cage that Celia was supposed to have been locked in? 

Edited August 22, 2016 by shrewd.buddha